Latest / Skin Anarchy / Securing Seed Stage Funding As A Small Brand Ft. Odile Roujol of FAB Co-Creation Studio- E.418

Transcript

Securing Seed Stage Funding As A Small Brand Ft. Odile Roujol of FAB Co-Creation Studio- E.418 · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: This episode is brought to you by Vonage.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your business needs more than an 800 number.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: With Vonage Voice API, you can provide the call experience your customers expect and get the data your team needs.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: From call analytics and virtual assistants to automatic speech recognition and text-to-spee in multiple languages.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Your customer service team can help more people in more places.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: And with Inapp Voice, your customers can easily contact you the moment they have a question.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Take your calls to the next level with Vonage Voice API.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Learn more at Voltage.com.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Diablo 4 has arrived.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's the forces of Hell Gather.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Only you can stand in their way.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: Journey across the expansive open world sanctuary.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: Choose from five powerful classes to progress in the figure playstyle.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Adventure with your friends of the four-player co-op with cross-play and cross-progression on all platforms.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Hell.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Diablo 4.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Available now, rated and for mature.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Have the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is brought to you by KPMG.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: At KPMG, innovation is the go-to state of mind.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Their visionary thinkers and advanced technology help you see beyond the now, uncover new insights, and turn them into opportunities.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: KPMG can help you leverage the value of data and drive transformational outcomes through innovation.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: To explore their thinking, go to KPMG.us.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is all about venture capital, and I am so excited because this is going to really bring us to um the first place, which is that seed phase and the seed uh investments that a lot of small brands um initially opted for.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I'm gonna introduce you guys to the co-founder and also GP of Fab Ventures, Odin Rujou.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Odin, and I'm so excited to meet you.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm really happy to meet you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for watching me.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I apologize, no.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, I'm really excited uh to chat with you because I really want to learn about um this world of investing, you know, and like seed investments and and what what is it, you know.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: So without um me ranting too much, I want to start with you and um and get your background.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is uh what made you go into this career path?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And just if you can walk us down memory lane, that would be great.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um to make a long story short, I I'm I came to the Silicon Valley seven years ago, and now I'm based in LA, Los Angeles.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I've been working for many cosmetic companies, uh including L'Oreal, where my latest job was CEO of Lancome in the selective market.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_04: And after I was lucky enough to work during six years in the data and tech industry.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: And in fact, if I decided to come in the Silicon Valley and to become a VC venture capitalist in Seedstage, is I was thinking there were so many people pinging me, especially in the West Coast, saying, Hey, we have seen that you have been in the cosmetic industry.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: Could you look at our deck?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Could you give us advice and guidance?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, I decided that it was maybe the best way to help in seat stage just after the business angels.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's interesting because you know, um people ask me the same thing, and I'm like, I have no idea.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very interesting.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now, so you know, when you went into this like area, you know, I I know that investments and um venture is just such a gray area for so many of us, you know.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to give us like a 101, you know, of how this this whole industry works, you know, when you uh see a brand or you see something that's really innovative or interesting, how does the initial process um happen?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: What in terms of like a brand getting funding or you know, a venture capitalist saying, hey, I want to invest in this, you know, I want to give money to this uh initiative.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, just walk us down that road if you could.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of proactive um contacts.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, from time to time, it's my funders saying, Hey, you should meet uh some of my friends, they're they're great at what they do, or it's other venture capitalists that invest later but think that someone could be interesting.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: Or from time to time, uh by just by DM on LinkedIn, and um I have a first conversation.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: Most of the time, the first conversation, especially in Seedstage, is pretty much about the founders themselves, what their purpose.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I know at your podcast in Anarchy, you're very much about, you know, are they about non-toxic ingredients, are they with clinical tests, are they dealing with things that are making sense in what I believe in?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and most of the time I'm very obsessed also by the community.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_04: Are they talking to people that they know very well?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, it can be about curly hair, uh, it can be about acne, or it can be about menopause, whether a period of life or knowing a lot of information about the people that try to um to serve with the products and services.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then also there is a second conversation that is more about the business, the traction they already have, uh, and what's their goal.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I position myself as a seed stage uh VC and boutique VC, I will say, on people that are not obsessed by the next round.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_04: So that means that are very good with their products with a high retention rate and not obsessed by having a new run and raising more money.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_04: Uh they try to have one day a path towards a positive Ebita.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense, you know, and and I and I find that to be interesting that you mentioned community because, you know, oftentimes I see brands launching with like, you know, two followers on Instagram.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I wonder to myself, I'm like, well, where did where's your community?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Where are the people that support you?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so that homework, um, that part of it, you know, what is it that for you defines like a good community that is going to be following this brand?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what do you look at numbers like Instagram followers or like what it what is it, the metrics that you it's a mix, in fact.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: I can maybe illustrate with two examples where I invested very much um in pre-revenues or super early revenues.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: The first one is Bubble, that you know, Shy Eisenman.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_04: When I met her, uh, it was at Zanke in Los Angeles.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_04: She she was uh rushing because a little late, she had her products, and she explained to me she was signing with 10 influencers, uh, different people, uh Latin influencer, an athlete, uh a gay uh influencer, very much committed to what he was doing.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: And she had the products.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_04: I signed with her without having the products already shipped on the market because I was believing in what she was doing, and she had a community on communities like uh Geneva and platforms for Gen Z.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: She was very involved before even having the products.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, um then in Walmart or CVS or Ulta to build her own business and to be in conversation with the people she was trying to help, especially teen skincare, is complicated, as you know, because it they're not super loyal and they don't have a lot of money.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: So she was obsessed by being affordable and to be at rich, in fact, and to touch them where they were.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: And the second one I have in mind is David Lee, that you know, maybe uh on Instagram is called um Seul Socialite.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_04: He's an activist, he says it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, he's an Asian uh Korean American, um, very much involved in the uh LGBTQ, uh, binary, beyond binary, gender inclusivity.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: And he had created a community called Very Good Line before launching his skincare line.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I love that because he was listening to the people, what they wanted, and for sure, his line is very relevant, and his bestseller is a Milky Lotion.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure you will test that and uh you will say that that's pretty good products, but it's far more than products, it's a feeling of belonging.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes so much sense to me because you know, when I even as a consumer am shopping, I'm always looking for a brand I connect with, you know, and like somebody who is really doing it right, you know, in a lot of different ways.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Not just the formulas, it has to be a full package.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I can definitely see um where you're coming from with that.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the community piece I think is so important.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes, you know, I won't lie to you, I have so many brands that I might be interviewing and they reach out to me and they say, you know, I want to get in touch with a VC and I want that seed stage funding.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't know anything about this.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I what I can tell you is, you know, you you have to have something solid there.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to, you know, tell us a little bit about um, you know, what are some things brands can do from the beginning that's going to really prime them for this level of like, you know, um, when they reach out to someone like yourself and they say, I need that funding, you know, and I I want to present to you.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are some things that we can do from the very beginning of launching a brand?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: I I believe very much in what I call the conversation.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, people will talk about content.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, content is nothing without talking to people, like I will meet you in person, I wouldn't rush on you and say, Oh, I would love to be in your podcast.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: I will say, hey, I've listened to these interviews, etc.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: So I've got the feeling that most of the people I talk to as founders and where I back them, they're already very good at something.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like um Bloomi, for instance, um, Rebecca Alvarez is a sexologist, uh, she's graduated from Berkeley, and she's very good in CRM talking to the customers and our audience because these people feel lonely, especially during the COVID.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of people had no partner.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: And when you talk about uh you know sexuality, it's it's still taboo for many people, including in the Gen Z and millennials.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: So she's trying to make people feel confident, and it can be something very different, like Caetin, as you know, they're about science.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: Savin Saib is very obsessed by um the uh biopeptide and the biomimetism, but they've got a huge power with um their hair stylists.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um and during the COVID, they did a donation, and you remember at the beginning, it was super tough.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, there was no subvention, no one was helping any airstylists.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: And at that time they were here, and they have built a very strong power of as a network of airstylists at that moment, in fact.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I will say to have it's more than just a content, a library, because people will say, Oh, take care of having on your side some education.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's part of your DNA day one, in fact, uh, to be educating people, whether about their body, whether about something that you fix, and where you're very good at helping them to understand and guide them.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think the guidance part is really interesting because you know, I know that a lot of people have so many questions about, you know, if you get the if you get the funding, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then now you are facing this idea of what do I do?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in terms of like, where's the next step?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: What is the right way to expand my brand?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are some things that um you guys provide, like your firm provides, you know, if if you do sign on somebody or you do invest in somebody, um some things that you help them with, you know, in terms of navigating this new growth and this new um stage in their in their brand, you know?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: Can you very good question?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I would say compared to many VCs, I spend a lot of time with with the founders I back, um, in two different ways.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, first, and with a lot of humility, they help each other a lot.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_04: So that means we've got meetings where we've got zoom meetings, exactly like uh uh they talk about uh their milestones, uh, where we could help each other.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: And from time to time it can be about talent on TikTok, from time to time it can be about uh as a young man, for instance, that is a PhD in chemistry that is helping them in their tests.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_04: So they help each other with different backgrounds and and and superpowers, I will say.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: For instance, the the people of uh newcomer strenuous, they're very much about uh software and tech and uh how to uh to connect uh the audience.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: So they help each other.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: The second thing is more on demand.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uh from time to time, uh, I'm part of a circle of trust, I will say.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, as I'm always a minority VC, I don't have to be at their board.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh I'm more helping them on things where they need to fix something.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: It can be about the brand management, from time to time, it can be about um a supply chain uh or uh recruiting a third member as a funding team.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so I try to make myself available and offshore, of course, to make sure that um I connect them with the right people when they need them.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, that that's really interesting.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I like that approach, you know, because I I really think that there's this idea that somehow a lot of brand founders have, which is, you know, once I get funding, I'm just gonna be great.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everything's gonna work out for me.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like there's a strategy that happens, you know, even after that process.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, my next question really is like, how do you approach like risk management when you make your investment decisions?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, like what if you know you found a brand and you're saying you're thinking in the beginning, this is a great brand, but then how do you manage that?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the risk and the reward expectations from your side?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a very good question, especially as a solo GP.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the the strength is to be quick and agile because you don't have to convince your uh uh second partner or third partner in a monthly meeting.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: So you can decide in one week.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: Uh most of the time, um the uh the pace-off decision.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: I take the time to have a first conversation and a second one three months later to make sure that first when I talk to them, when we talk about being collaborative, it's for it's for sure.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's not just to be polite and courteous in a conversation and then to do whatever they want to.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I make sure that my guidance is appreciated and and I value to what they build.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the second thing is I try to have experts uh on things that I don't know.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, coming back, for instance, to newcomers, uh, because I invest for sure in beauty and uh uh women's health, but also in in tech and SaaS.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: I make sure that I've got people very good in data.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_04: I work very closely, for instance, with uh Ravi, Hive Data in Palo Alto.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: They are very, very good in AI and computer vision.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not the best one to make sure that, for instance, the CTO of ByWith that is an ex-SAP and is a brilliant engineer, is the best CTO.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I check with them before investing, for sure.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you do consult with other experts and you know, really get the do your own homework.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's good.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I like that.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's that's something I think brands need to understand is that you know, there's a lot of um information that has to be collected before someone can invest in you.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so the more you I think brands can do.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the more homework a brand can do and the more information you can provide and show that this is real and what we're doing is innovative, I mean, the easier it gets, I'm guessing, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: The third superpower I've got is not only the tribe of uh the 23 founders, it's also um my LPs.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: I'm lucky enough to have um beauty and luxury corporations and corporate ventures investing in Fab.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: They're fully aware that if they will invest directly in seed stage, they're pretty toxic for funders because, as you know, corporations are very competitive.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: So let's say that Unilever or Loader will invest or L'Oreal or whoever, then the other ones wouldn't touch the company, especially in consumer brands, not in B2B.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm lucky enough to have these people in my cap table, which enable conversations with uh the funders.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: Let's say, for instance, Bluebird Climate is on decarbonization and helping people to measure their progress and the work with Patagonia or Glossier, they can ask questions to uh some experts in the big companies that I'm mentioning, and it's not anything linked to an economic interest, it's just hey, let's learn together.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it's open innovation, in fact, on on both sides.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: They learn from the big companies, and the big companies learn from them.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the the third power I've got, in addition to having my my skills and and and the tribe of founders helping each other.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that I love that.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's like you know, it's like that saying it takes a village to raise a child.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: I love it I love the image.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: You're right.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: I say that to educate my children, by the way.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, honestly, it's it's it's hard work, you know, it's hard work, and I think that it's important to have all these different, you know, professionals and and perspectives to really chime in.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to ask you though, you know, what is the ownership and exit strategy for investments in startups?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you can give us a little rundown of that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, not all VCs will answer like me.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: I as a boutique VC, my strategy is merger acquisition.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm not trying to have the new unicorn.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: I know it's very difficult in beauty and fashion and newcomers.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm trying to have people raising um some money, but not huge amount of money.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: Most of the time, why I when I invest, let's say 250k to 500k with the ability to follow on with the phone two to one million.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: I invest when the valuations are pretty reasonable.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: I will say when I say around 10 million, I know some people will say seven.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_04: Uh let's not fight on that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, let's say 10 to 15 million, but never a bore.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it depends a lot on the revenues and the path towards the EBPR.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_04: But my strategy is more that these people maybe will have two runs after that, no more.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: Not you know, series D E and continuing to raise like crazy, because as I'm small as an investor, uh I have a small ownership, and I just need to make sure that I help them to scale.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but at the same time, that one day a merger acquisition happens in a healthy way.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm pretty obsessed by the BTA one day or another.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of this is now we say uh growth, growth, growth has changed to Abita, Abitea, Abithea.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: That was my strategy from the beginning.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I I love when people are obsessed by having great products.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: I know listening to a lot of uh your podcast that you're pretty obsessed also to have excellent products that have been carefully tested.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's important to have loyal customers and not running after new customers and then losing them again because it's very costly, and especially in this period in cost of acquisition.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, I think the formulation aspect, you know, I like that you brought up like, you know, you were talking about PhDs and stuff before.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is something brands can really learn from, you know, from what you've told us here is that you know, you have to do your homework in terms of what you're creating.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your customers will only stay with you if the product works.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're just, you know, if there's I've seen so many brands, and I'm sure you've seen many more than me in in terms of like, you know, they have a great product.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: It works, you know, it blows up.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe some influencer, you know, shouts them out or something like that.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, where are the return customers?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where's the people that are, you know, coming back again and again because your product is the best.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that, you know, it's it's like I try to tell brands, I'm like, there's no, there's nobody, there's no VC, nobody who can fund you.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's your side of it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to put that work in.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, it's very, very intriguing to me because so many people want to say, well, if I only had more money, if I only had more investments, I could do something great.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, start from, you know, start from the formula, start from the basics and make something great and then go, you know, to the next step.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, good advice.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, I think my my main question and and a way to round out is, you know, um, when when you're evaluating the worth of a brand, you know, I know you had mentioned, you know, community and all of these uh things that go into play, but um, in terms of long-term growth of that brand, you know, how does that analysis happen?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where where are the is it data centered?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how does that work in terms of figuring out, you know, five years from now, where's this brand gonna be?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: Now, maybe maybe it's my past experience, you know, as a CEO of Lancome.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm fully aware that retailers are not fixing anything for you as a brand.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of people will say, oh yes, you need to be omniconal and to have a lot of retailers.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: I will say uh my advice to founders is most of the time to uh focus on one of them and to be very good in the partnership, whether it's Target uh like Bloomy, or whether it's uh Ulta Beauty like Good Light World, or whether it's Sephora like Honey in Body Care.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh they're very good at what they do, and they have chosen one retailer where they spend a lot of energy and time.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: And as you remember, as a startup, we're lean and it's small teams.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so you need to be very good at that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: And then the other partners, uh, maybe I'm thinking, for instance, I've invested in Certain Lun that you know, very inclusive, and doing a great job with GCP because they're online, but also with stores.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: Then you choose people because of their image.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_04: It can be uh a violet gray, it can be goop, it can be Certain Lune, it can be the detox market, my friend Roma Gaia, uh, because he's got a standard in Clean Beauty and they're very good at what they do.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: But you still have you know someone as a key partner.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've got the feeling that the value of the company, uh we come back to the merger acquisition one day, will be the data you've got on your customer.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: So if you dilute too much your your company and you depend on retailers whether because this retailer is too big in your revenues or because you've got uh let's say 70 percent or even 80 percent uh of of of your uh revenues uh depending on wholesale that's not good because uh corporations will love the brand because they they're blind on some information they don't have because as you remember in beauty most of the time they've got 10 to 15 cumulating all dot com uh online so what they purchase is the value of your community the knowledge you've got the insights you've got about your community and and customers as a founder that's very interesting i love that and i love what you said about the you know pick one retailer and stick to it i see so many brands saying i want to be everywhere you know i want to be in neiman markets i want to be in sephora i want to be everywhere you can't do that you know you have to you have to really figure out where because we you know i'm sure you heard of the Sephora you know dropping some brands right and and I always wonder exactly yeah they've got only the shelves they've got so if they want to welcome newcomers and new brands they need to kick out of this the shelves the ones that are not uh enough uh generating traffic or or in sales so yeah I I I think some funders underestimate that once they're on the shelves there will be a lot of cost added and and spending because the retailers need you know to have great sales and revenues too so yeah yeah so now I want to ask you actually uh you know about in terms of like your own rep like you know when you are investing right a brand is going to be raving about the firm you're right saying that this is a great firm it's a great VC they really believed in me and you know all these things that are said right and and that really I think kind of builds your own reputation as a firm.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so my question is how do you measure the success of your investments just beyond the financial returns?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what are other things that really help you um say that you know what this was a successful investment for me.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I I I will say I I come back on the trust relationship because when we invest um they follow on you could say oh it's legal because you've got a pirata and you're aware that some VCs uh I don't do that most of the time because I've got the feeling that if I do my job and I do my job uh the founders will follow on with me and ask me to continue to help them and and to be in the next round.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I give the example in fashion where I invested in prior revenues in Kintra it was not written it's a material science company that I had to be in the next round.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: They have just raised with a huge uh fashion company and a lot of impact investors uh and I'm still part of it and happy to to do that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I think I'm here for the long term.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: So most of the time when I choose the funders I I also choose the other VCs part of the cap table.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: So for instance Wina, traditional Chinese medicine I invested at the same time as Aglae Ventures.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe you don't know them but they're the family office of Bernard Arnault most of the time they invest in in tech you know SAS and uh it's the only um consumer brand investment they did in the last three years.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm very happy to have them because they're very good on the tech part and very good on the consumer part and we help each other to grow the business with Ervina that is a PhD in traditional Chinese medicine and that is having a holistic approach of beauty with topical skincare, great retention rate, uh Sun in the future supplements and maybe one day a VIP treatment where you could have uh Ecta or me um a traditional Chinese medicine doctor helping us in our diet and and beauty routine every day in fact so that's the kind of investment I do so very much about the long-term relationship and on the other side if you will ask two defenders they will say maybe Odil is the smallest ticket but they must involve you know like the Stix was saying that with um Sarah that I love at SWAT uh SWAT ventures partner uh they're very much about um health health and uh you know the UTI or all the embracing problems of of the woman and I helped them a lot because they were in D2C and as very good in paid media but as you know all people have cut the paid media and it's more complicated.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: So we were here whether the key investment and lead investor or me as a minority investor uh on different topics but helping them guiding them and adding value that that's the best way to measure the the results the long-term relationship and especially in consumer brands as you know the the return on investment is not in three years it's more five to seven years if we're optimistic.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's so that's really really great.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you said that you know because that's I always wonder that is like you know what is the real role in the long term you know of the VC and and how does it really play out because there's so much more than just money you know it's it's it it it just is like this misunderstanding I think in so many people's minds that it's all about money.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: No you know there's a lot more things.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that was very interesting um you know what you said here.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want to I want to know one more thing though is you know if you can give us some advice you know there's a lot of brand founders there's some lot of brand founders that you know they they tune into the podcast and I'd love to get your advice on like any feedback you have for a pitch or the kind of presentation they should be preparing if they want to approach someone um like yourself, you know, and they want to really uh you know present to you like what are some things they should consider?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: The biggest mistake that I see my French radical candor is that from time to time the founders um are confused between a deck that they do for Sephora let's say that that is very much product oriented and a deck to a VC.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: The VC is more interested by for sure that what you fix um your community uh your first traction you but very much also about your cost of goods and product margin uh the business plan you've got how you will scale globally maybe one day even if it's in three years and that it's exponential.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: And the advice I give especially to my um uh female founders and friends and sisters don't be too shy I've got the feeling that uh especially coming from the Silicon Valley a guy uh coming from Palantir or Stanford could have a a deck of five slides and and just raise 10 million dollars because he shows figures that are exponential and some VCs uh will say oh he's a Palantir guy and Stanford I will invest and raise a lot of money and female leaders as you know are very humble about the figures because they're very realistic and I will say more on the lower side and from time to time they forget that if they look for VC money um it needs to be exponential.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_04: So that means instead of being in in five years at 10 million dollars that there better be at 25 or 50 million dollars which a guy will do spontaneously so don't forget that ladies don't be too shy on your figures yes you don't know exactly yet how it will be but if you've got great products and you open um a retailer partnership and you scale globally normally you should manage because you're smart and and you should be the best at what you do.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that I love that you spoke to the women out there and the female founders because that is so important and it's so true what you said.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I think as women in general in every career we try to stay humble you know we try to stay in this like this this lane or our own box and it's just so it we can't do that anymore.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know it's it's a competitive world out there and we have to step out of that box and just say listen we're here we're doing something great and and we're gonna show you exactly how great it is I I love what you said.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know this is so important.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes yes yes so um well you know but that's that's really you know where what I wanted to ask you Odil but thank you so much this has been so lovely to chat with you and I really appreciate your time and and coming on the show and telling sharing I apologize about what I call my French radical candour.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I say things that are not polished but no try to help no you did you you're the kind of person I I love because I hate the people that are too politically correct about everything.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to be very honest and you have to so I I I love all the advice you gave and I know that our listeners really appreciate it because there's so much information in this you know this area of investing and VC and the whole world is very very um new to many brand founders.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um again you know I really appreciate your time and for everyone listening I would love for you guys to chime in with any questions you have um any kind of concerns maybe we can um can convince you to come back for part two and do a QA but you know this has been so lovely.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: You're welcome Hector and uh the the last advice I will give connect with other funders.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_04: I I think the best help you can have is some people building things like you do uh from time to time a little later stage than you but from time to time even in the paid forward if you help people that are less mature as a company than yours that's very helpful.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_04: So uh I I very much uh believe in the paid forward uh culture and I know Ekta you do the same so uh that's my advice to all people listening to us.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love that yes and everyone listening please take notes you've been taking notes I mean you know listen back to the episode take notes I mean these are really really true gems you know that um have been shared here and I and I wish everyone the best you know if you're on this journey of getting funding and investment you know just do your homework tune in talk you know listen to the experts um such as Odil here you know listen to their advice because these are the people that can really guide you and make you understand where to go and how to approach this.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: But um again thank you all for listening and I will be back next time.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you and uh have a great day.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: Take care thank you.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: We are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Also make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: We are available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a blog on Medium so if you're a reader and you love medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast and it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out leave us a comment leave us a review and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.