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19: Responding to Questions: Other Religions · Finding God at Work

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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This is Finding God at Work.
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Our current series is Gentle Witnesses, sharing the
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good news at work in a way that
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actually makes sense.
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And we're at that stage of how do
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we have conversations with friends who are genuinely
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seeking, not just curious, not even just open
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to change, but actively seeking after God, trying
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to get to a point of resolution, trying
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to understand what they really believe about Jesus.
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I want to give an example from when
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I was in sixth grade.
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So up until sixth grade, I did not
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have glasses.
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And then I went into my eye appointment.
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I forget how often, maybe once a year
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I was having an eye appointment.
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And the doctor said, oh, he needs glasses.
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My mom was there too.
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So he was kind of talking with my
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mom and talking about me and the third
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person.
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He's like, he needs glasses.
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Now here's the thing.
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He doesn't realize that because he doesn't know
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what sight is.
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But once he has glasses, then he'll see.
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I was really offended.
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Like one, because he was talking to my
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mom, instead of me, he's referring to me
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in the third person.
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But two, because he's like this thing, I
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don't know what sight is.
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Like who does he think he is?
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Of course I know what sight is.
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But then when I put on the glasses,
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things were different.
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I could see the leaves on the trees.
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I could read the blackboard from the back
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of the classroom.
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I could see the texture of people's faces
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even from across the room.
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It was amazing.
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The doctor was totally right.
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I didn't know what I was missing out
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on.
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I think this is a helpful analogy for
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the idea of spiritual knowledge.
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We as Christians have some kooky beliefs, right?
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We believe a lot of really strange things.
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And one of the things that we believe
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that is actually kind of unusual to believe
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these days is we believe that spiritual knowledge
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is possible, that you can actually learn things
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about life and death, about God himself, about
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community, about suffering that are true things.
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Not just beliefs, not just points of inspiration,
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but genuine knowledge.
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Just like you can know mathematical things, and
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that helps you do math equations which can
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be applied in the real world.
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Just like you know scientific things, and that
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can help you develop responses to various situations
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in a scientific method, developing new technologies or
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medicines or things like that.
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You can also have spiritual knowledge, and that
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can help you live life in a certain
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way, in a way that actually gives life,
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and that's part of what God is doing
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in the world.
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And it's also possible to miss out on
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that.
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Now this puts us in a sticky situation
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as followers of Jesus as Christians, because it
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means that we think we know some things
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that other people don't know.
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Now it's not because we're morally better than
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other people, like this doctor who gave me
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a glasses prescription, he had glasses too, right?
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He needed just as much help as I
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did, maybe he needed more help than I
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did, wasn't that his eyes were any better,
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but he had gotten the help, right, he
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had gotten the glasses and so he could
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see well enough even to perform an eye
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test on me and to you know give
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me this prescription that I needed.
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We as Christians are saying all human beings,
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we struggle with a kind of spiritual blindness
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and it is possible to get spiritual glasses,
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it's possible to suddenly see things more clearly
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than before, and we think that we have
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gotten the glasses, right?
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We think we're wearing them because we see
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the world differently than we did before we
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started wearing them, and we're trying to put
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these teachings of Jesus into practice and it
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seems like they really work, and when we
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pray to God it seems like God is
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actually doing something in our lives, and so
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again it's not because we're better, it's not
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because there's anything special about us, it's just
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like we think the glasses are real, and
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so when we're having conversations with friends who
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are not yet followers of Jesus, we're suggesting
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to them that they could also put on
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the glasses, they could also see clearly, they
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could also know some things that they don't
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currently know.
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Now the reason that this is sticky, this
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is kind of a dicey proposition, is that
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it cuts against the grain of our pluralistic
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culture.
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We have a culture where we want to
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be inclusive of everyone, right?
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We want Muslims and Christians and Buddhists and
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agnostics and people who are spiritual but not
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religious, we all want to be one big
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happy family and be able to get along
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and do life together, and so one way
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that people often attempt to kind of make
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that big happy family dynamic work is by
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saying like well our disagreements don't really matter,
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right?
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Like yes, Christians believe one thing and Muslims
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believe another thing and maybe some agnostic people
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aren't sure you know about either set of
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beliefs, but like at the end of the
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day we all want to help people, right?
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At the end of the day we have
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a lot in common, and of course we
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do have a lot of common, at least
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a lot of us do, and it's great
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to build on things in common, but we
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also have some things that are not in
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common, and that becomes very awkward to say
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because it's like oh wait don't you want
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to be inclusive?
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Why are you focusing on differences?
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Why are you talking about things that we
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don't have in common?
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But this is simply the flip side of
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the idea that there's spiritual knowledge.
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If it's possible to know something spiritually, it's
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also possible to not know it.
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If it's possible to learn something spiritually, it's
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also possible to not learn it.
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And so in order to say like oh
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none of the differences of spiritual conviction or
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spiritual ideas matter, we would have to say
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that it's not really possible to learn anything
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meaningful in the spiritual realm.
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Because as soon as you say here's something
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meaningful that I've learned that's spiritual, then it's
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in contradiction to other ideas that would conflict
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with that.
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If Jesus teaches something specific about God, like
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that God is Father, and if that's meaningful,
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if that changes your life, there is a
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question of whether it's true or not.
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I have had conversations with Muslim friends.
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They do not teach that God is Father.
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That is not what the Quran teaches.
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That is actually a difference of conviction about
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the nature of God and how he relates
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to human beings.
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And so I'm painting with a really broad
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brush.
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Islam itself has many varieties just like Christianity.
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I'm speaking to the conversations with Muslim friends
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that I specifically have had.
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But that's my understanding of Islam in general
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is there's actually a different vision of how
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God relates to people in Islam.
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So you can't have your cake and eat
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it too, right?
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You can't say like it changed my life
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to learn that God was my father.
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Oh, but also you know that whole system
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of belief is just an imperfect cultural reflection
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within my context just like you know Muslims
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is in theirs.
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And so we don't really know like the
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ultimate unknowable reality filters down to each of
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us equally.
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Like that doesn't work.
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Either it's true or it's not.
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Now this is something that actually it doesn't
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take that much reflection to realize that it
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doesn't make sense to affirm contradictory things about
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God.
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It's just we have been so socialized to
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not press into those kind of questions, to
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not say anything that might step on someone's
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toes, to be so careful not to offend
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anyone that we feel like maybe it's not
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possible to logically think these things through.
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But actually it is possible.
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You can think through spiritual things using reason
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and logic just like you think through anything
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else using reason and logic.
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And us human beings we are not always
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reasonable and logical.
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We're gonna bring our biases and our emotional
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motivations and our blind spots to this conversation
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just like we bring that to every other
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conversation.
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But what's actually respectful of other people is
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not saying, oh your beliefs don't matter and
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my beliefs don't matter because nobody can know
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anything.
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But actually saying, oh I think that I
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can know some things and you think that
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you can know some things and those things
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both can't be true if they're contradictory.
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But I'm gonna love you and respect you
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and listen to you and maybe you can
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you know also listen and respect me and
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we can have a conversation about it.
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That's actually inclusivity.
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Inclusivity is we're gonna listen to each other
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and treat each other as human beings while
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we talk about things we disagree about, not
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pretending that disagreements don't exist.
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Okay so if you have a friend who's
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asking this question trying to figure out how
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do we understand the existence of so many
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religions, how do we understand the the claims
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of Jesus, what would it mean to really
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believe that you can know things from Jesus
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specifically that are different than what many other
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cultural and religious traditions have taught, can be
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really helpful to press into how Jesus himself
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addresses this question.
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And to get Jesus's own take on this,
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you have to go to a kind of
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obscure passage, probably not one you learned in
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church if you grew up in church or
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that gets preached on very often.
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This is when Jesus references the story of
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Jonah and the story of the Queen of
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Sheba.
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So this is from Luke chapter 11 verse
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29.
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As the crowds increased Jesus said, this is
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a wicked generation.
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It asks for a sign but none will
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be given it except the sign of Jonah.
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For as Jonah was assigned to the Ninevites,
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so will the Son of Man be to
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this generation.
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The Queen of the South will rise at
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the judgment with the people of this generation
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and condemn them, for she came from the
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ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's
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wisdom and now something greater than Solomon is
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here.
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The men of Nineveh will stand up at
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the judgment with this generation and condemn it,
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for they repented at the preaching of Jonah
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and now something greater than Jonah is here.
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Okay now Jesus is not mincing his words.
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He opens with that real zinger.
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This is a wicked generation.
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Again, why does Jesus say these things?
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Why is he so confrontational?
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Again, for him it's always about the heart.
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He's always honoring the mind but aiming for
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the heart.
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He's always trying to draw people out and
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see are they open to God?
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Are they willing to receive the reality of
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God's kingdom in their midst?
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And he's been doing things in the midst
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of the people of God, the people who
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have the Torah, who have the prophets, who
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have the wisdom writings, who should be able
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to recognize the kind of things that God
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does.
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He's been healing people.
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He's been restoring people to their families.
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He's been teaching people about the kingdom of
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God.
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He's been doing enough things for people who
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are paying attention to realize that God is
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on the move, that God is doing something
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in the ministry of Jesus.
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But then he says that this generation asks
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for a sign.
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Now he's been doing signs.
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He's been doing miracles.
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People who have been paying attention have been
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putting their faith in him but other people
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are like, ah prove it, prove it Jesus,
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give us a sign.
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And he's questioning that attitude.
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He's saying, is that really an attitude of
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openness to God?
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Or is it a demand for a sign
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that reflects the kind of closedness of heart?
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And he's saying, look, other people who didn't
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have as much data to work with, right?
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Not as many miracles, not as much kingdom
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of God breaking in as I have offered,
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they have still recognized the finger of God
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in their midst.
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So he gives these two examples from the
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Scriptures.
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One is from the book of Jonah, the
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city of Nineveh, and the other is from
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the time of Solomon, the Queen of Sheba,
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who he calls the Queen of the South
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in this passage.
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And these are both examples of non-Israelites,
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people who do not have the Torah, who
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do not have the prophets, who do not
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have the wisdom literature, who do not have
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a covenant relationship with God.
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And yet they see something happen and they
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recognize that it's God.
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In the case of the city of Nineveh,
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it's a Hebrew prophet Jonah who sent to
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them, calls them to repent of their sins,
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which included economic sins and oppression and things
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like that.
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And they do.
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They're like, we should change our ways.
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They humble themselves and God decides to spare
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the city, to forgive them of their sins,
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even though they're not Israelites.
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Something similar happens with the Queen of Sheba.
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So this is an African Queen.
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We're not totally sure where Sheba is, but
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probably somewhere in in North Africa, somewhere near
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enough for somebody to kind of get wind
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of what was going on in Israel during
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the kingship of Solomon.
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And she decides that she's kind of like
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gonna make this pilgrimage to talk with this
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king and see if he's really as wise
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as he's cracked up to be.
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And then she has this amazing statement at
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the end of she's kind of like questioned
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him, quizzed him, been impressed by his answers,
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right?
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She says this, the report I heard in
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my own country about your achievements and your
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wisdom is true, but I did not believe
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these things until I came and saw with
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my own eyes.
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Indeed not even half was told me.
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In wisdom and wealth you have far exceeded
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the report I heard, how happy your people
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must be, how happy your officials who continually
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stand before you and hear your wisdom.
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Praise be to the Lord your God who
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has delighted in you and placed you on
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the throne of Israel.
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Because of the Lord's eternal love for Israel,
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he has made you king to maintain justice
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and righteousness.
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And then in a few verses later it
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says, King Solomon gave the Queen of Sheba
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all she desired and asked for besides what
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he had given her out of his royal
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bounty.
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Then she left and returned with her retainer
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to her own country.
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Okay now what's really interesting about both of
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these cases that Jesus cites is these are
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not what we might call total conversions.
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It's not like this people of the city
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of Nineveh all moved to Israel and worship
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at the temple after Jonah comes to them.
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They stay in Nineveh and they repented because
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of this prophet of the Lord, the God
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of Israel, but it's not totally clear that
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like Nineveh totally changed their worship customs or
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their religion at that point.
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They probably kept doing what they were doing
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to a large extent even though they had
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this moment of repentance.
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Similarly it's very clear the Queen of Sheba
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goes back to her own people in her
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own land.
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It's not like that suddenly becomes this place
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of worship of the God of Israel.
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Although there's an interesting legends that have arisen
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around those lines because it's a very intriguing
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passage.
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But there's a sense in which God somehow
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is doing something in the world through Jonah,
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through Solomon.
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People who are not part of his covenant
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family recognize what's happening, open their hearts to
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it, name it for what it is, repent
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of sin in the one case, or acknowledge
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the wisdom that God has given Solomon in
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the other case.
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And then Jesus, hundreds of years later, is
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saying those people are going to rise up
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at the judgment and condemn the Israelites who
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didn't recognize that God was doing something in
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the ministry of Jesus.
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Again this is kind of cultural.
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It's not the way we're used to thinking
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about things.
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Jesus is talking about divine judgment.
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But you can see the point he's making.
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The point he's making is it's possible if
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your heart is open to see what God
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is doing in the world and it's possible
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to close your heart.
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And some people have opened their heart even
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with very little given to them and God
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has still met them.
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And you all have everything you need and
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more and your heart is still closed.
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So again he's like knocking on the door
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of these hard hearts with this statement about
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becoming judgment of God and the Queen of
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the South and the Ninevites are rising up
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at the judgment and speaking out against them.
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He's appealing to people to have softer hearts
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towards God.
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Okay so how does that help us understand
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the question of plurality and different religions and
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different cultural traditions and what God is doing?
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Well there's kind of two sides to it,
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right?
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One is that God is doing something in
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the world.
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It's not like God is unknowable.
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Spiritual knowledge is possible.
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We can get to know God through the
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ministry of Jesus Christ.
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That's what that whole passage is about.
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That people were either open or closed to
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the idea that Jesus was doing something that
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was of God.
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At the same time we see these examples
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that Jesus himself is citing of God being
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very generous and inclusive of people who don't
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check all the boxes for normally being included.
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And again it's not like these are neat
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and tidy conversions where people start worshipping the
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God of Israel regularly.
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And even so somebody was still able to
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connect with God from within their own culture,
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from within their own geographic context.
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God saw that, God ministered to them, and
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he recognized it.
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And apparently they're going to be there at
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the last judgment and they're gonna have something
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to say.
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So again there's a lot of mystery here
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but it tells us something about God's character
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doesn't it?
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That God wants people to be drawn to
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himself, that God is generous, that God can
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meet people where they are.
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So that that's kind of a hint that
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we get in the teaching of Jesus himself
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about how to understand the differences between different
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religions.
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It's not that every religious and cultural tradition
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is just totally bunk except for Judeo-Christianity.
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No no no it's that God has done
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something unique and powerful and real in the
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Judeo- Christian tradition, in the coming of
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Jesus as Messiah.
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And anybody from any cultural background can get
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in on that if they're willing to and
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God has the kind of character where he's
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gonna meet them where they're at regardless.
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Now that may raise more questions than it
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answers and scripture doesn't always clearly answer all
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of the what-if situations.
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Because again what is Jesus doing in this
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passage?
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He's appealing to what the people he's talking
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to have access to.
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He's like there are people out there who
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don't have access to what you have access
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to but you do have access to it.
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And this kind of contrasting rhetoric is used
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by the followers of Jesus as well.
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So in in the book of Acts Paul
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is going to the city of Athens, right,
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a pagan city worship of the Greek and
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Roman gods.
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And he's beginning to speak about Jesus.
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He actually doesn't even use Jesus's name but
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he just kind of says that there's this
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person that God has appointed to establish justice.
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And he says therefore since we are all
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God's offspring we should not think that the
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divine being is like gold or silver or
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stone an image made by human design and
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skill.
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In the past God overlooked such ignorance but
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now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
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Now isn't that a fascinating double-edged statement?
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In the past God overlooked such ignorance.
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So he's saying there are people who have
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worshipped idols, who have worshipped false gods, who
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have had temples set up all around the
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world in different cultures.
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And he says you know what?
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God overlooked that.
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What does that mean?
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Does that mean that God like has like
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a free pass for everybody who didn't have
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the Torah covenant?
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Like it's not totally clear.
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But it kind of lines up with what
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Jesus was saying about God's character.
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That God knows where people are at.
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He knew what they knew and didn't know.
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He's willing to overlook things that were beyond
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people's control.
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But then what's the second half of Paul's
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statement?
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The second half is, but now God calls
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all people everywhere to repent.
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As the message of Jesus goes forward there's
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an opportunity to repent, to turn to God,
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to get in on the special thing that
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God is doing through the ministry of Jesus.
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And so that's also relevant to our conversation
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with our friends.
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They may raise a question like, well what
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about somebody from a different religion?
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And that's a legitimate question and we can
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appeal to the character of God, that God
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meets people where they're at.
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But the real question is what's going on
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for that person, right?
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What's going on for you as you speak
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to your friend, right?
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Are you in a position where you can
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consider the claims of Jesus and whether they're
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true or not?
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You don't need to worry that God's gonna
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somehow mistreat every person on the face of
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the planet.
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You can respond to what God is giving
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you access to and take the next step.
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So I think we need to embody that
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double-edged reality of Jesus.
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On the one hand, yes, God is generous.
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On the other hand, God is asking whether
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you want to step into this reality right
19:08
now in this conversation.
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God is making something knowable for you.
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And so we become agents of the knowledge
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of God.
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Not because there's anything special about us, but
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just because we've had a chance to put
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the glasses on and to see clearly.
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And it's like in these conversations we're saying,
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you have a chance.
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Put the glasses on.
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See Jesus clearly.
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Jesus, we do want to see you clearly.
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Show us how to be winsome and gentle
19:38
and clear.
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How to disagree with grace while still holding
19:41
to our convictions.
19:42
How to help people grapple with the idea
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that they could really know something.
19:46
How to help people grapple with the idea
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that they could really know you.
19:51
Do your work in us as we do
19:52
our work with you.
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Amen.
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Thanks for listening.
20:00
Finding God at Work is a production of
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Mission Central, a ministry based in Aurora, Illinois
20:04
dedicated to forming Christians for mission in everyday
20:07
life.
20:08
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20:10
listen to this episode to get 10 minutes
20:12
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20:14
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20:15
To get resources to go deeper with each
20:17
podcast series, read our blog, and get info
20:19
about upcoming courses on faith in the workplace,
20:22
go to our website missioncentral.church.