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Envy: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  Thanks for joining us, on beyond the sermon.
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  The podcast of First Methodist Church in Collingswood New
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  Jersey. Our goal is not only to share
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  our sermons, but to go beyond the sermon in conversation about
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  what we're learning and what God is doing in our lives, and in
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  our community, this conversation is inspired by our 2023 sermon
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  series for length, seven deadly sins, the power of God to move
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  us from death to New Life. He can find more information
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  about our church at f-- U MC Collingswood, org.
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  Thanks for joining us for this conversation.
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  Don't mind my noisy children or dogs in the background of this
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  podcast. So disclaimer.
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  Hmm, we just got back from a lovely hike with our youth since
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  they had off school for President's Day Scott, you want
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  to tell him what you did on that.
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  I, I did a rope swing that I should not have done three
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  months post shoulder surgery, Didn't hurt my shoulder but I
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  slid down the hill on the other side, completely in the mud.
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  Yeah, it was entertaining. But I was worried because I
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  didn't have Scott sign a release form to the church for, don't
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  worry, Jeremy, I'm not going to sue you or the church for my
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  muddy jeans. Yeah.
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  Now we had a lovely time. We had a little devotional ran
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  by our very own Elizabeth Boswell, which is a nice little
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  break surrounded by God's. Action and we were very much
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  away from the world. You couldn't see, you could hear
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  a highway but you couldn't see the highway you couldn't see
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  Suburbia around the park. It was nice to get away because
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  if we were back in Civilization, we are constantly surrounded by
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  advertisements for things on the roads, on our TVs, on our
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  phones, whatever it may be just a constant bombardment, and you
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  were talking about commercial. Shows on Sunday.
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  And I was curious, have you ever watched a commercial and
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  immediately fallen for it and purchased what they were
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  selling? I'm gonna say no, but I don't
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  trust myself. That's about right?
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  You never once in college like Saul Pizza Hut Commercial and
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  they're like, oh, we should go to Pizza Hut and then you guys
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  went, have you ever been to Wilmore, Kentucky?
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  Okay. Have you ever watched the fall
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  Farmers Almanac Channel? We should go cow-tipping know.
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  What do they have in Kentucky in Wilmore?
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  Yeah, as far as restaurants restaurants are TV.
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  Like, is it all like local restaurants on commercials?
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  I don't know, Sonny's, barbecue, or whatever.
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  I mean, some in Wilmore itself, when I was there, we had a
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  little local coffee shop. That was only open till like
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  2:00 in the afternoon called Hebrews no Solomon's porch.
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  Okay. It's the Solomon's porch across
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  the street from that was a Subway and then I think either
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  my junior or senior year a Chinese restaurant came into
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  town. Oh wow.
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  That became the spot. That was it.
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  Like if it wasn't going to be one of those like you had to
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  actually drive to the next town over, which was Nicholasville,
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  or been ordered to Lexington, which Speaking of Of Wilmore, I
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  just saw the update that, like, on Saturday 15,000, people were
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  trying to attend the Revival and 15,000 people from outside of
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  Wilmore. Yeah.
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  Which I think is more than the population of Wilmore put, oh,
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  yeah. The the populations only
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  somewhere between five and six thousand.
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  Yeah. When school is in session.
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  Wow. And so, the 15,000 people, they
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  ended up blocking off the town and only residents were able to
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  continue to get in. Yeah, they had to ask the state
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  police to come in and Kind of help navigate that a little bit,
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  just mind-blowing. No, that's amazing.
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  But you know what? That shows me they need to
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  expand one more. Well, they need to expand one
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  more sure. But but it's not we're always
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  looking for what's that next thing?
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  That next Trend. That next Killer song or
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  lighting setup or whatever, that's going to attract people
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  into our churches but these are people who are showing up just
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  because they've heard That God is there.
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  Yeah, and they want to experience God's presence.
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  And so while I can be really tempting to be envious of, you
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  know, some of the the big mega churches in the country or even
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  some of the ones here in our own area and say like, oh man,
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  they're they're doing it. They've got the big light shows,
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  they've got the big projection screen, Star Band sound like
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  they're professionals. I've got these eight.
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  Hundred or a thousand seat Auditorium that they're packing
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  out. We've got to do what they're
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  doing. If we want to attract people
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  young people in particular. Yeah, but I think what the
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  outpouring, or The Awakening, the Revival, whatever you want
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  to call it at Asbury shows is if God is really there, people will
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  show up. Yeah.
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  And as a thing is when it like started and continued after the
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  service, it was more just like prayer and test them.
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  Moni focused and that's what continued it.
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  So it's not, you know, a lot of the parts of our Sunday morning
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  worship wasn't even the part that continued and Drew a more
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  people. And so when we think that I'll I
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  don't know if I want to just sit in the room and pray and, and
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  people's testimonies that's what you know, continue this to push
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  and move into and to what it was and again, so the beautiful part
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  of our class meetings that we're going to be starting Very soon,
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  is that we'll be praying together and we'll be sharing
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  testimony of how God is working and our lives through the week.
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  And so I'm excited to see a little bit of what we've been
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  hearing about reflected in our small groups and in our
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  congregation this Lenten season. Hmm.
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  You want to expect a natural transition, where, you know,
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  where we going now? Wilmore, Kentucky, man.
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  I just want to get Sunny's Barbecue and camp out in the
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  hell hands yard. Really.
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  They probably let you was my dream.
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  Yeah. Because I was like I don't wanna
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  take make them have to clean the house addressing like I just
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  need access to a bathroom or and have a tent in the yard.
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  I'll use my electric skateboard to get to the chapel.
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  So I don't have to worry about all the traffic of people
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  coming. I mean the line of people this
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  point price stretches to their house.
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  It's baffling. Absolutely baffling.
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  Yeah and the great thing is because I'm I'm part of that
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  extended Asbury world. I saw Friend of a friend's post
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  which said that Zach, the guy who preached the chapel, yeah,
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  that this all kind of launched from texted his wife, right
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  after he got off the stage said, that was my latest stinker.
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  I'll be home soon. Wow.
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  Like he felt coming down off the stage after that, Chapel service
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  that he had flopped whiffed and that's where God showed up.
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  And so I should mess up more often.
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  I mean, it gives Has me great hope because I feel like that's,
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  you know, half my Sundays, at least every Sunday.
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  There's something I feel like I should have said that better.
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  I didn't handle that well, or, I probably wasn't as clear as I
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  need to be, you know, explaining that concept or inviting people
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  to respond in some way. And it's just such a good
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  reminder that. It's not on us.
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  It's not all on. It's not at all on us.
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  Like, yes, we have to be faithful.
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  Yes, we have to show. Oh up where God has asked us to
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  show up but we've got to trust that he's the one who's doing
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  the work. Yeah.
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  And if we're not doing that if we're trying to do it on our
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  own, that's when it's gonna fail.
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  Yeah well I was thinking if I did go that what if I like
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  didn't start going to the chapel until like 3:00 a.m. now because
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  it's gotten so big and they're trying to protect it for the
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  students, they're putting like boundaries on when people can
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  come in. Yeah, now you're over 25.
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  So you wouldn't be allowed in at 3 a.m.
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  Yeah, and even if this was 10 years ago, you wouldn't have
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  been able to get in Scott. That's true.
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  That's true. Try and protect it for the young
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  people, the odds, death City, the Ambassador.
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  Yeah. But then, they're going to open
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  it up in other facilities. Yeah, they're looking for some
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  other locations to transfer the majority of it.
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  Yeah, yes amazing. So I'm excited to see how this
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  outpouring as I believe that's What the school is starting to
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  yeah, title it. As is how the out, pours into
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  the regular life and outside of that building and into the
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  country and into the streets, into the people that aren't
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  going to a more Kentucky and see how God is going to use this as
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  a stepping stone or a launch pad for what he is doing
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  specifically there. So, all that to say, I can't
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  remember a time I've ever watched a commercial and gone
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  out and bought something I can name too many times especially
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  food, usually, once I started having my own money and then I
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  saw something I was like, yeah, that's like five, ten minutes
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  away that. So or make me think of another
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  restaurant that I want to go to but even just like like Facebook
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  ads or Instagram, as there's always things like because it's
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  catered specifically to you and so they usually get me on
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  especially the things where it's a subscription.
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  Model, first one for free but you just pay shipping.
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  Yeah, and then you have to remember to cancel all I've
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  done. Easily, three, four dozen of
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  those. Yeah, gets me Hook Line and
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  Sinker almost every single time. Always afraid to do those there
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  have been a couple times. I've forgotten to cancel before
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  the the subscription closet it on my calendar and so that my
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  phone reminds me of the day. Of speaking of Kentucky, we were
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  talking about being envious sometimes of other people of not
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  just the The resources that they have.
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  But also sometimes for example, the service is happening in
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  Wilmore. Yeah.
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  Wishing that for our services, but also I was curious.
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  If you've ever been envious about someone's spiritual gifts,
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  more experience, a spiritual experience, they had.
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  I mean, I think it's a pastor, there's always the temptation to
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  Envy those who we see to be. Either better preachers or who
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  are in a preaching to larger crowds or something like that.
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  Where I mean it's never really been my desire to lead a huge
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  giant mega church or anything like that.
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  But there's still something within me that says if they
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  exist they must be the standard for success and I don't actually
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  believe Of that to be true but it's tempting to go there.
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  It's tempting to think that to think that then if we've got you
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  know, 100 people are 150 people showing up that somehow We need
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  to do whatever we need to do to program for growing to that kind
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  of a size where I actually think God.
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  Most often uses churches down through histories use churches,
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  where they're small enough close enough to each other.
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  That the pastor actually knows. The people I saw on Twitter the
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  other day, someone was posing her Ike.
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  I visited this this little local church about a hundred people
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  and the second time I went back the pastor knew my name.
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  So coming from a megachurch like that was just kind of almost
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  creepy to me like to to actually know the pastor.
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  I'm like, but it's not how it should be hmm, that's what I
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  mean, but the Temptations there. Yeah.
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  To look at those and to see, you know, and to wanna have that
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  kind of success or to hear a preacher preaching on a podcast
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  or a live stream or something and be like, wow, I wish I could
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  preach like that Pastor even though.
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  It might just be a one-off sermon, your hearing that, you
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  know, you don't have the context of all those other sermons where
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  it's okay or mediocre or good, but not great.
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  And yeah, I think for me it's finding the balance of where
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  admiration turns into Envy because, you know, there's so
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  many people. John oh swell Craig.
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  Keener and T. Right?
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  Like all of these in my mind like geniuses.
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  It's like the amount of knowledge, they have of
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  scripture, the research, they've done about the scriptures, like
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  all of these things just as, like, mind-boggling to me.
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  And so because I admire them, it's like, oh, man how much like
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  more in my mind? Fruitful, could I be if I had
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  what they had and then reminding myself of like, well, that's not
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  exactly who God called me to be in.
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  Luckily, he's right, right. Those people and their resources
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  that they've created dad to help me understand more and save me
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  the thousands of hours that Craig can assure you everything.
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  He's done. Yeah.
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  And that's where showing up and being faithful to be where God's
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  called you to be is so important.
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  Yeah. Not about trying to be someone
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  else in the context you're in. It's about being faithful to
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  what God's asked you to do. Yeah.
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  And like the gifts, I mean even within our own church Aaron
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  Adriana who leads our contemporary worship service.
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  I always The term I use is disgustingly talented.
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  Mmm. Where he's just as brain.
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  Musically is on another level. Yeah and so like we left young
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  adults just the other night and there's that piano upstairs on
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  the way to the youth room and he just like, want to check out the
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  tuning so he just like hits a couple keys and he goes, huh?
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  And then just breaks into Flight of the bumble bees.
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  I'm like, are you kidding me? Just off the top of his head,
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  right? The David said don't do nothing
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  just like a diva. On an attitude piano.
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  Yeah. Yeah amazing.
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  It's like man. And then you get the little Emma
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  goes from admiration to like man, I wish I could do that.
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  Yeah, like not even like for other people and Glory like if I
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  could just entertain Myself by being able to fly on the keys
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  like that. Gosh, where I'm just over here,
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  you know, I know middle C. Yeah, that's about the extent
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  time, huh? Can punk out Mary, had a little
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  lamb. Jesus loves me.
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  I wish all Oregon. That one of the things you would
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  talked about as well, in our service was the the story of the
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  land owner and he would hire people throughout the day, but
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  then paid them all equally no matter how much work they put
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  in. And I was curious, if you've
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  ever felt like you were treated unfairly at a job.
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  So when I was in seminary, I worked, you know, alongside
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  going to school to make Take all of that meat and meat and pay
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  for school and that kind of stuff.
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  And the first job I had when I was down there, we move down to
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  Jackson Mississippi in July of 2006.
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  And so, shortly after that, I got a job working at Lifeway,
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  Christian bookstores and life way.
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  They had a very strict dress code, you had to wear your
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  company issued, sure. And a pair of khakis, some kind
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  of closed toed shoes and your shoes had to match your belt
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  like Okay blah blah blah and so I walked in one day wearing a
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  pair of khaki corduroys. Oh and I was told that if I
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  broke dress code again, it would be if this was just a verbal
• 16:35
  warning but it would be a written warning because I wore
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  khaki corduroys, instead of You know flat khakis.
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  Yeah, there's they should have specified.
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  That's on them. I'll that's what I thought.
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  I didn't see anything wrong with.
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  I thought I still looked nice. I was still keeping within the
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  spirit of the dress code. I was really thought you were
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  some rebellious hippie. Yeah, apparently so yeah.
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  So that was the the like kind of silly example that came to my
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  mind but mine mine. I felt like connected really
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  well with the parable because I worked at McDonald's.
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  In Glassboro for too many years and I picture of it.
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  There's proof great, it's already circulate around the
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  youth group. Everyone seen it.
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  If you haven't just asking youth kid.
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  Hey, can I see the picture of Jeremy working at McDonald's
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  when he was in high school and almost all of them either have
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  it as their background or have it somewhere on their phone?
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  Lucky me anyway after like working there for two years and
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  you get like a 10 to 20 cent raise each year.
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  I'd worked my way up to To, let's say 850 an hour and then
• 17:45
  minimum wage got boosted up and the state.
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  And I stayed at 8:50 now, because I think that might have
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  been what they raised it to. I can't remember that.
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  All the new people were getting paid the same and I did it.
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  So I could work all the different stations and these
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  other kids were working slow, and didn't know what to do.
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  Have the tiles. Like how am I getting paid the
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  same amount? Like yes.
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  We're clocking in the same hours, but like, I have the
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  experience and I just Got paid, minimum wage.
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  I was happy. I was making more than when I
• 18:15
  started, sure. But I was very discontent with
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  that and I can't Trash Talk Bells too much more because they
• 18:23
  have too much power. But similar things much worse
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  happened to many of my co-workers.
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  Yeah and stuff like that happens, right?
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  And and there are times where we feel like someone else is
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  getting what we deserve or someone else is getting more.
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  More than we think they deserve. And that's where that's where it
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  shifts into that Spirit of Envy, rather than just like coveting
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  or Desiring or something like that, where it's like, no, I
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  actually don't think you deserve to get that.
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  And that's where we might direct it at an individual.
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  But most often were actually angry at God.
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  Because he's not giving us what we think we deserve or he's
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  giving someone else, what we think he should be giving us and
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  I think that kind of, gets down to the root of Envy in one of
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  the books. I was reading for the sermon
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  series, which is called them glittering.
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  Vices telling talk about the seven, deadly sins glittering
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  vices. They're telling the story about
• 19:42
  Mozart and this guy named salieri, which if you've ever
• 19:47
  seen the movie Amadeus, it kind of tells the story from
• 19:51
  salieri's perspective, he was the court musician for Emperor,
• 19:57
  Joseph Franz, or somebody Franz Joseph Groove.
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  Yeah, the emperor of the Austrian Empire use the court
• 20:06
  musician and you know, he thought he was pretty hot stuff.
• 20:09
  He thought it was pretty good and then this Young upstart
• 20:11
  Mozart Comes along and he's getting all the Acclaim.
• 20:15
  He's getting all the attention and salieri realizes that in
• 20:21
  comparison. He's fairly mediocre, mmm, and
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  he starts to get angry about it. I starts to Envy Mozart.
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  He starts to get angry with God about why God would allow this
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  young kid out to him. And he'd worked so hard and all
• 20:39
  of his desire was to glorify God.
• 20:42
  His music and all this stuff and the Envy gets so bad.
• 20:47
  He ends up being involved in a plot to have Mozart killed, wow,
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  and ends up. Driving him insane.
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  He ends up dying in an asylum because it's the Envy drove him
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  crazy. But ultimately he was angry at
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  God. Yeah.
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  And so, the movie tells the story starts out with him in the
• 21:10
  insane asylum and a priest comes to His final confession and he
• 21:15
  tells a whole story about his relationship with Mozart and but
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  ultimately it came down to he was really mad at God about what
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  he gave someone else. He thought he deserved and an
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  illustration that really helped me gain perspective and check my
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  own heart. As in the book said Jesus
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  outside the lines. I think that's one, I multiple
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  copies and My office, if anyone wants to borrow one Scott
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  Saul's, right? Yeah.
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  And he in regards to Greed talks about, you know, if we hear
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  about someone that's spent like ten thousand dollars on a bottle
• 21:55
  of wine at a fancy let's say in Dubai because I know
• 21:59
  everything's expensive and Dubai, ten thousand dollars and
• 22:02
  it's like well natural reaction for many as well.
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  Imagine what you could have done with that ten thousand dollars.
• 22:08
  Instead of by the bottle of wine, you can bought a car.
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  You could have Someone get their caught, you could have had this
• 22:14
  many people that many people and it's all in perspective of we
• 22:19
  would use that money for Hound that.
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  But then when you look at the fact that we are, what if we're
• 22:26
  in America, then we're in like the top 3%, the world economies
• 22:30
  and crazy like that. And so what we spend on even a
• 22:37
  fast-food meal out in many places is like Five to ten days
• 22:43
  wages like a week's wages because I think it was, I don't
• 22:46
  know, post covid-19 think is like 50% of the world lives off
• 22:51
  of like to $3 a day short on thing.
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  Yeah, something like that. And so in comparison, someone
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  else somewhere else in the world is like, why would you go out to
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  McDonald's and get a large fry? Do you know who you could have
• 23:04
  helped? And he could have had with that.
• 23:06
  And so, it's more of the being content with where with what God
• 23:11
  has provided us. And not looking down on those
• 23:14
  that have less and not trying to be judges of those who have more
• 23:18
  and spend more, however, they choose but to be content and
• 23:22
  good stewards of what God has given us.
• 23:25
  And I don't want to go too much further because it might lean
• 23:27
  into what I'm talking about on Wednesday guard.
• 23:30
  What is happening tonight at our Ash Wednesday service, right are
• 23:37
  Ash Wednesday, terms at 7:00 in the sanctuary.
• 23:41
  Yes. Yeah, that is an interesting
• 23:43
  Dynamic, though. When we will we look at the
• 23:45
  world as a whole rather than just our American context.
• 23:50
  You know, when we served as missionaries in Uganda here, we
• 23:54
  feel like, pity from people, like, oh, your missionaries,
• 23:57
  you're racing your support. You don't have much, you don't
• 24:00
  have a house. You're not like all this stuff,
• 24:03
  because we raised our support. And that means your salary was
• 24:06
  only, you know, x amount of money, which to most Americans
• 24:09
  didn't seem like an acceptable. I'm out.
• 24:13
  But then, we'd go over to Uganda and we were like, rich, rich,
• 24:19
  rich, like personal security detail because of how rich you
• 24:23
  were Ike. We had a vehicle.
• 24:24
  So, like that, just put us, stratospherically Out Of Reach
• 24:29
  For, You know, most of the people we lived among and
• 24:34
  there's always an interesting Dynamic to try to balance and to
• 24:39
  navigate it, well, I don't know that we always did.
• 24:42
  Did, but we tried to, yeah, and that's a perspective that I hope
• 24:48
  the team will gain as we send a mission team down to Mexico.
• 24:52
  Yeah, we're a lot of times. It's the worry of the Comforts
• 24:57
  of life that people are worried of losing as they go down.
• 25:01
  But a lot of the times teams that I've taken have felt like
• 25:05
  they don't have the physical things and resources that were
• 25:09
  used to in the States but they have stronger relationships.
• 25:12
  God and the people on the team's desire to have more of the
• 25:17
  community to have more of the yeah strong faith as the people
• 25:21
  down there and so even though it may look like they don't have
• 25:24
  much, they have one is important and yet so I'm excited for us to
• 25:29
  learn from each other. Yeah, as where as we're down
• 25:32
  there? Well, that's our conversation
• 25:33
  for today, but that doesn't mean the conversation is over.
• 25:37
  We'd love to hear your thoughts on these topics as well.
• 25:40
  To ask a question about anything we've discussed in this.
• 25:42
  Episode or to join the conversation, you can head over
• 25:45
  to fum. See Collingswood org slash
• 25:49
  podcast, thanks for being part of this conversation.
• 25:42
  Episode or to join the conversation, you can head over
• 25:45
  to fum. See Collingswood org slash
• 25:49
  podcast, thanks for being part of this conversation.