Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Leadership & Perfecting Career Development Frameworks in Financial Planning - Helen Lovett - COO at Foster Denovo

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Leadership & Perfecting Career Development Frameworks in Financial Planning - Helen Lovett - COO at Foster Denovo · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Helen Lovett.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: She is the COO of Foster De Novo and today we talk about the culture of a business and why it was so important that there is a clear career framework for everybody in the business not just for the company, but for the shareholders and, of course, those all-important employees.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: We talk about AI technology and the future of financial planning and what Foster De Novo are doing about it.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: We talk about AI technology and the future of financial planning and what Foster De Novo are doing about it.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: We talk about women in leadership roles and why we need more women in the profession.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: She shares everything about her career journey, all the exciting stuff that's happening at Foster De Novo and even a little bit about consumer duty what they've done around a client service proposition which is receiving huge positive feedback.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: You're going to love this episode, helen.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me today on the Foster De Novo Talent Attraction Special with us here at the Financial Pl financial planner life.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: It's amazing to get a female in a leadership role within financial planning.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's like one in 16.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Uh, yes, women are in leadership roles within the financial planning profession and everybody speaks so highly of you as well within the company.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I've interviewed a few people now.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Your name comes up a lot as a great leader, highly empathic nice, nice start sam nice bit of feedback.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Can I get some more business from you now?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: no, I've got to earn it exactly I've got to earn it, so I'll tell you what we've just talked about, the types of people that have been telling me what a great environment is here, right, and one of the things that comes up a lot and I talk about on the podcast is career development plans.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: What's it like to run a business and see it from your position and recognise that you are building a business that really does enthuse their employees through really achievable and progressive career development frameworks.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: How does that feel to you?
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I mean it feels brilliant.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It was very deliberate.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It is very deliberate.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: That's the first thing to say.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: It's something that we went after, put in place, went after it, tried it, refined it, tried it, and what you're seeing and hearing now, I think, is the fruits of that labor of love.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So I mean, obviously, for the people involved it's amazing because what they get is a career path.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: They get to feel that they're succeeding and feel that they're learning.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: You know, and learning something every week should be sort of mandatory, in my opinion.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: It's what keeps us all interested and interesting.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So it's great for them and, of course, it's also great for our clients.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: You know, clients can tell when they're engaging with somebody that is intelligent and engaged, you know and cares about, and people that are moving on and moving forward, they are going to be more determined to deliver service excellence.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: They just are because they're going places and they're delivering everything they do.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: They're trying to do their very best on and we're a growing organization, so you're not sitting there waiting for someone else to decide.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: They're moving on.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: You know there's constantly the need for people to develop and and and to be strong and move forward and learn, and there's a kind of a need for it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So clients benefit because they're engaging with people like that.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Of course our partners benefit, because there's nothing worse than working with people that aren't engaged.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: You know, some people say to me well, why does it matter how engaged, engaged your people are?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Have you ever tried working with someone that is not engaged?
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: You quickly realize, um, so it works from the client's perspective.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: It works for the people themselves, it works for the partners they're looking after.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: It also works for shareholders, um, which you know, people maybe don't always recognize, but you know we've got the kind of turnover that you want, in the sense of sometimes people leave to go and pursue something entirely different.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: That happens.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: So you've got that little bit of turnover, but you're not constantly replacing talent.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Your talent's just growing and you're, you know, backfilling underneath it.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: That's a really efficient and effective way to run a business.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: So works for everybody I love it.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, for me I've been bleating on about career development frameworks and roadmaps within financial planning since I started this podcast, running a recruitment business for 15 years, one of the biggest frustrations for any candidate that came to us a lot of the time within financial planning was lack of career development and you saw that a huge amount within the administration, power planning, back office type functions.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: There was a period in time where you'd like it was a hierarchical kind of system.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: It was like you're either an admin or you're a power planner or you're a financial advisor and then you become self-employed as the profession is starting to evolve, but there's only a few companies that were evolving in the profession because, let's face it, it's a bit sleepy there's a lot of people at the, you know, at the helm of these financial planning companies that aren't really wanting to grow.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: so, therefore, why would they invest in career development plans and talent attraction and take it on a new person when, to them, maybe they're thinking more about, yeah, exiting that business, and that, in its own right, is a huge opportunity, right, it's about turning around to those companies saying, look, do you want to get more value from your business?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Then maybe it might be time to exit.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Have you thought about selling your business, which is something which you guys are absolutely brilliant at as well?
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: There's some really successful acquisitions that have been going on.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Really interesting point that you just said, because I never thought about it.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: The shareholders are happy, yeah.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Just explain that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just incredibly inefficient to be replacing talent on a regular basis.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So you recruit somebody, it's a good recruit.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: You take your time, you've got the right value set they want to achieve.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: You put them in a role.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: They develop and they grow and they're ready for the next thing.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: You don't give it to them, they go somewhere else.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: What do you have to do?
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Well, repeat, and that's just ineffective.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: It's not just unpleasant.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: You know you form relationships with clients, relationships with partners, relationships with your peers, your friends, your colleagues.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: So to be breaking that all the time, it really frustrates me when people think just generally in business not in Foster De Novo, but generally in business the way to get on is to move companies.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I recognize it can be like that.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: It isn't like that here.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: So it's just a more efficient way.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: It's a more effective way of building a business to grow the people in it that want to grow, and some people they enjoy the work that they do, they want to come in, they want to do a fantastic job and that's fine.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: To have people who come in with you know kind of a fire in their belly means that you are able to, you know and you can satisfy that need for development is great.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: It means that they stay longer, we run the business more effectively, clients are happier, et cetera.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: It just works from a business perspective.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Clear career roadmap.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Somebody knows exactly which route they're going, where they're going, their expectations of the business in respect of taking them for their earning potential I mean, earning potential is a big thing, right?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: People want want to earn money, but they want to know how to get there.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: They're not afraid of the hard work and what's required.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: But when you put a roadmap in front of them, at least they've got something to work towards.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: You'll be surprised.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: And then, how many companies haven't got any of that?
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: yeah any of it, and that, to me, is one of the things that I've hyper focused on with some of our conversations here at Foster de Novo, because you're doing it right.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: That's what people want.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: That's what I want people to hear.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I want someone to walk into your business with hard work and dedication and the right people around them that are recognizing the skill sets that they actually have, because some of the good things you do as well is you don't just go.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're an admin, so you're going to be a power planner next.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: You've got people moving from power planning into advice.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: They could be employed, they could be self-employed, they could be moving into a project management role.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say that, for all that, we've got paths.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Um, people will always find a way of inventing their own path, and that's cool.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and people will will will arrive here.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily expect they'll arrive knowing what they want to do, and it's one of the challenges actually of hybrid working.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Is that what you're trying to do is make sure that people are gaining the exposure to different roles and the exposure to different people, listening to the way that different people operate and and learning from that.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: That's one of the things that can inspire direction.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You know, rather than to join a company, do what you do and not really be able to experience or see where you might take your career.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Tell me what a COO does at Foster de Novo.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So most of my time is spent ensuring that my senior team know what it is that we're trying to achieve.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: They're confident in what they need to do to achieve it.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it's mostly through other people that I'm doing what I do now.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm also a change manager by profession, so I still run the odd project here and there um, for for stanova, and I love that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: You know that that enables me to work with a much broader cross-section of people.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Um, and sometimes you know down in the detail, you know that that's a good thing for me to work with a much broader cross section of people and sometimes you know down in the detail, you know that's a good thing for me to dip down and really get to understand a particular subject and you know, and then leave it in someone else's capable hands to run.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: But I would say, you know, I don't know.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Probably 75% of my time is spent meeting with people and making sure that I know what they're thinking, that I know what they're dealing with.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: You know where there might be barriers so that I can build in some solutions and talk to other people about what the solutions might be, or I'm communicating.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: You know what it is that we're trying to do.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I'm looking all the time to join people together, make sure there are no overlaps or not too big an overlap and also no gaps.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: So you know, occasionally it happens.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Someone.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So you know, occasionally it happens someone says, well, I didn't, I didn't know that, I didn't know we were doing that.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I see that as a kind of a yeah, problem, you're a problem solver, aren't you?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a problem solver.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you keep your feet on the ground?
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Because you sound like a problem solver, but we've had some conversations before this and you're really into technology, ai and all those typical types of things as well.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: At a coo level, you're seeing the business as a whole.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: You know all the people that are doing all the things, but at the same time, you must have a kind of ambition inside of you to get to the level that you're at.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: How do you kind of keep your feet on the ground?
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Because I'm naturally a creative person and I'm entering into a leadership role now where I have to do similar things to you and manage different stakeholders and I'm such a I'm so like I chase things.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I get really excited.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like a dopamine addict, you know, know, I can do this, I can do that.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: How do you keep your feet on the ground?
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: What advice would you give to someone like me?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: You mean not to run too fast.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Is that what you mean?
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: So I am always concerned with the people that are delivering for me, and so if I'm running too far ahead and I can feel that strain, that disconnect, you know, that's all very well for you to say, helen, but I'm still doing that over there that you asked me to do last week.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So it's the connection with your people.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: You know, if you're working in splendid isolation, I suppose you could get carried away.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I can't, because my team wouldn't let me.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: You know, the idea of getting too far ahead it it just doesn't even cross my mind because all the time I'm out checking, you know, I get loads of MI so I can see where there might be issues.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: People talk to me.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I sit in the open office so I get a pretty good sense of how people are getting on.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Um, so, yeah, of part of my role is to lead us towards, you know, six months ahead, two years ahead.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: But the connection I have with my people means that that's only at a pace that they're going to keep up.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Every now and again we'll go, and you know we've got one coming up.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Actually we'll spend a day looking a bit further ahead as a team to make sure we're all inspired.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: But the important thing is to to look back at how you get from where you are to there, rather than imagine.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a magic weekend, you.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: You sort of turn up and it's all done I like what you said there.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Actually, it's like dedicating.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: You know, when people say like, um, give yourself time to be anxious during the day, dedicate some time, you say, right, I can be a bit anxious at this part of the day, I can worry a bit like I worry hour, or something like that.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I suppose when it comes to creativity and pushing forward and developing things, it's the same thing that you just said there.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: It's like having a day where you can sit down and be a bit like well, what could we do differently?
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: What could we do?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: What could we do to push forward?
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: What new thinking could we bring to the table.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: You kind of give people permission just for the moment, but today aside, and say, well, hang on a minute.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: So we're now two years on.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Write the headline.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: You know how many of us are there, what are we achieving, what are our clients saying?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: You know how many offices have we got?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: so you sort of paint the picture.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: We you know we've done it several times before.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just about continually refreshing it.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I've never heard of a an anxiety hour.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: By the way, I would love it if I could do all my anxiety in one hour.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That sounds amazing, giving yourself permission to worry about something.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, but have you ever met a person that is responsible for you know operations that isn't worried, I don't know, Isn't constantly anxious?
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Well, look, you know, I've been running a business for the last 15 years and 24-7.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: It's 24, 24 7 on my mind all the time.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I've had to really learn to understand and develop boundaries, and it's through conversation with people that have done it for so long, that have the experience, like you, that I pick things up.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: That what you just said about having that day, I'm already my mind's going.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: That's an amazing idea.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Like I'm definitely going to do that.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And what I've been doing recently is breaking down things into threes.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: So like, okay, so, sam, you've got how much stuff that you want to do?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And I've got like 20 things, right, okay, but what's urgent, an important, the old, urgent important matrix, and one, two, three.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: So what has to be done now, what can be done later, what's for some other time?
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: And I categorize them all into that way.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: That's a three and I put three things I have to do now.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: That now would be the first three months.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: So it's in threes all the time, right.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And then I've got three projects and it's like, oh, brilliant, so what?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Three are the key things that I need to do underneath each of those products.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: So it's all projects, it's all in threes and since I've been doing that, I found that really manageable because I'm not saying no to the things I'm really excited about it's just knowing what to prioritize and when to deliver it by have any of our people talk to you about our boulders?
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: no so our analogy for what you've just described we have boulders.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: So, um, if you imagine a bucket and you've got some boulders, some pebbles and some sand to put in, if you put the sand in first and then the pebbles, the boulders won't fit, but if you put the boulders in first, you can put the pebbles around and the sand will just fill in the gaps.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: So that's our analogy, to concentrate on what the boulders are in your work.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: So we have.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Every year we have boulders.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Um, at the moment we've got four.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: We've had four for some time.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: They refine a bit each year.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Their focus slightly changes and we have end of year targets within each boulder.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: So we've got a boulder that is to do with our acquisition and integration plan.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: We've got a boulder that's to do with our recruitment and growth plan.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: We've got a boulder to do with our propositions to client and we've got a boulder that's to do with our recruitment and growth plan.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: We've got a boulder to do with our propositions to client and we've got a boulder that's to do with efficiency through digitization, and so those boulders become the you know, your sort of most important.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: That's our language for what you've just described, and so you know the idea is, my emails are my sand.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I could spend my entire day just answering emails and would add no value whatsoever and I wouldn't get anything done.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: But somehow, if I do the things that, I think actually this is really going to add value.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I kind of get my emails done as well it's magic I've just been leaning into a pa recently and like not like I get, I struggle with the whole, like things like podcasts, right, booking people in and getting people in a room at a certain time.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: So I've been leaning into a PA and I've never had a PA.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I'm leaning into a PA and my god, they're amazing.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Like I was thinking like why would you have a PA?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Why don't you just do it yourself?
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: It's like letting go of the control.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: But actually the control element of it makes me anxious, because I love spending my time on some video calls.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I'd rather have five or six video calls in my diary talking to people, because talking to people to me is where I'm energetic, where I pick up ideas, where I pick up opportunities.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're probably not very good at admin either.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: No, You're not being funny.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Well hyper-focused I am, so you know when we jumped on the call, for instance, I don't mind getting to know know somebody, then I can hyper focus on how I construct a podcast, and then I totally go off piste.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Now I've noticed um the um, the difference, though, between admin and focus.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: So I'm not saying you've got no follow-through.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I wasn't meaning to imply that you may not, but I don't know that.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But what I meant to say is that the role that a PA performs might not be something that you would be good at, even if it was your whole world, right, I mean, I wouldn't be my PA.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Natalie understands, without me having to tell her what will be important to me, so, and she can tell if I'm having a day that I feel a bit my nerve endings are jangling as opposed to a day when we can spend a bit of time having a bit of a laugh.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: So you know, you know that that's the skill being able to organize someone else.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, she makes me look better.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: That's what she does.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: She makes my life easier and she makes me look better.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And a lot of that is done through intuition, through knowing me and through intuition.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: That that's a skill set that is different to the skill set of my job or your job.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, there's always a kind of like at the beginning of that relationship as well, and I find this I can get quite frustrated.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: When I've got an idea in my head or I'm thinking about something, you almost want that other person to be a mind reader and understand what's going on in your mind.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: So I'm having to get into the mindset of.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I need to explain this to you in the beginning in quite a bit of detail so you actually get how I think.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be more work in the beginning with somebody who's a PA, and then later on, as long as I've treated them with respect and all of that kind of thing, Because in the past I might have lost my heat with people and like ruined the relationship and then it becomes an anxious conversation with that person.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: People always do a better job if they know why they're doing it, don't they?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: So you know that investment, initially so that somebody feels motivated to.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You know they get why they're doing what they're doing.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, brilliant.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: So all these boulders going on, which boulder was consumer duty under Proposition, proposition?
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, talk to me about proposition, because you've got quite a unique proposition for your clients when it comes to servicing.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're rolling out a new style of proposition.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: We're 70% of the way through, 71% of the way through to be precise.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: So our clients all need a certain core service, so for us to check that their circumstances haven't changed, to understand where they're at in terms of their thinking and their goals, and for us then to ensure that the plan that we've put in place for them remains relevant, appropriate, suitable.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: All clients need that.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Beyond that, every client is different, and so what we've done is to define a core review service and then to have a range of value-added service elements that can be added to that when needed and when it will bring benefit, and so each of our clients has essentially got a bespoke review service that is specifically customized to what they need and they're charged accordingly.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So there isn't a set fee.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Not every client is considered the same level of service and therefore the fee will change dependent upon the level of service the client actually wants.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: That's appropriate for them, that they need.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah that they need that they need yeah, yeah, that they need.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So there are some things that we know that we need to do for that client circumstances.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: So it's not a pick and mix, but it is customized to what that client needs and and and wants.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Um, so, and, and, yes, they're only charged.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: They're only charged for that.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: So if you imagine, you know the, the combination and permutation of all of those different services I don't know, I haven't done the maths, but there'll be a huge number of possible fees and service descriptions.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So if this is already done pardon me for my ignorance right, I spent 15 years doing talent attraction and selling business not underneath the bonnet, which is going to change.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Does that mean then, from a consumer duty perspective, that you have to evidence the fees that you're charging the clients based on the level of services you're providing?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So are you kind of ahead of the game in respect of this, or do you think, down the line, they're going to turn around and say why are you charging that much money?
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Can you evidence it?
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: And then you can turn around and go well, actually we've got some evidence.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I think I'm ahead of the game.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: but you know, let you know, let, let's not, let's not jinx it, right?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, we.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: The client sees the list of services that we've, the list of services that we've felt appropriate, that they would receive, right.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: So it's not a black box.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: There's a calculation engine that works it out for sure, but the client will see.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to receive a core service.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to see you three times a year.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to receive a cash flow forecast from you.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: There's some estate planning to do.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: They will see that list of services and the fee that they'll be charged for it be interesting when things like gen ai comes in and then you have that menu of services and the client can actually ask what that means and then the document will talk back to them, answering the questions to anything on the document.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: That's exciting and I got talking with um there's an idea?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: yeah well, it's coming out that type of thing and that's how it's going to be.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: So you know, any kind of like long-winded policy document goes out at any time of the day.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: If I've received it, I can talk to it, and it can talk back to me and explain things to me.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It's amazing yeah, and that's coming out.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good idea.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Mean, our fee agreement is going to be a maximum of two pages long.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's not very long and there's a few lines for each of the services to describe what it is that the client will receive.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: So this has been rolled out or is it?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: you said it's 71%.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're 71 percent of the way through our clients, rolling out the new proposition to them.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about feedback then on that.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: How has it been received from the clients?
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: yeah, I mean I mean so far brilliantly.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: We've been absolutely delighted.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: All right change doesn't sue everybody and you know some clients are really delving into it and want to understand it much more clearly than others.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: We use the Net Promoter Score.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: We have done for quite a lot of years now in Foster De Novo.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: So we've actually started specifically looking at the Net Promoter Score for those clients that have received this new style of service Because, to be clear, the clients might have received those services previously, but what we're now doing is being much more particular about ensuring that they understand what it is that we're committing to do for them and for what fee.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: So you know, sometimes it won't feel dramatically different, but we want to get some direct feedback on it.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So the net promoter score my understanding is the average in wealth management is kind of around the plus 35, which is a really, really good score plus 35.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: As an industry, we should be really proud of that.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So so far the feedback that we've got for our new proposition is plus 84.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Wow, I know that's insane.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: That is insane.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: That's really really good, I met you before tonight, a few years back, and you were really passionate about the net promoter score um, so you have continued on with that it's a really hard measure.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: It's um, it's brutal.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: So you, if a, if a client, the question is would you recommend us to a friend or a colleague, whatever is appropriate?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Um for the question, would you recommend us.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And it's one to 10, and you ignore the sevens and eights.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: They're called passively satisfied.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: So I think a score of eight is a pretty good score and you know, particularly in our culture, I don't think we're always the most diffusive of nations.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: You know, it's okay, it's fine.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: You know, give it a seven and they don't count.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: So what counts in a net promoter score is the percentage of your clients that score you a nine or a 10, subtracting the percentage of your clients that score you a one to six, who are your detractors.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: And so it's brutal.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm very passionate about it.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: The reason it matters for us, aside from it being a really clear measure, a really direct and straightforward, simple question, not difficult to answer and not difficult to interpret the reason it's so appropriate for us is because it tells you about growth.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: It was most wealth managers and we are just the same grow through referral, and so if you're asking your clients, would you refer us?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And they're saying, might well, that means no.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: If they're saying nine or a 10, no.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: If they're saying yeah, nine or a ten, I would.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: They probably will.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: So it it tells you whether or not you're going to get referrals and you're going to grow when you get that feedback from the client around referrals quite interesting.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Do you follow up with those who say yes, we would refer?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Is there like a system from a marketing perspective that would follow up and hopefully pull one out, or how do you know?
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: It tends to be through the advisor it's through the partner.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they would already have um spoken to the client about that and got some, you know, got some feedback from it.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Where we do essentially pick up is if we we get a one, or well, anywhere between one and six, that client will get a contact to say please, please explain what's happened, what's gone wrong.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: That's not how we intended it to be.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: You love your data, don't you?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: What's exciting you the most, then?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Because obviously, that service level agreement is brilliant.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: The data that you're gathering is brilliant.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: We're about to enter a data-driven type environment where AI is going to come in and revolutionize it.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Is there anything you're doing or anything you're excited about around data and tech and AI?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're looking at AI.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: We're piloting a couple of AI tools at the moment.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: You know, ai has been around for absolutely ages.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: What's happened most recently, though, is that some tools have emerged into our market that are tuned to do jobs that are really valuable.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: That that's the difference.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: The um, it's the specific tools that are available to make our lives easier doing the job that we're doing.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: So, for example, there are tools that will take unstructured data so a conversation between a client and their partner and organize it into structured information that a paraplanner can use to do some research, or that the partner can use to drop an email back to the client and say this is what we talked about and I'm on it an email back to the client and say this is what we talked about and I'm on it and taking away some of that administration burden from a partner who is brilliant at client relationship, at creating rapport, at advising.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Taking away an administration job or reducing it, taking it away, reducing it it's got to be good, hasn't it?
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: And I think that's really exciting.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Some partners, no doubt, will resist.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: There's that sort of sense of it's something to be scared of, but I think a lot of them are going to think it's Christmas early.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I think so as well.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: There's this fear that it's going to kill power planners off.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: It's going to kill administrators off.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: This fear that it's going to kill power planners off.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: It's going to kill administrators off.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Um, will it make their lives better, easier, so they can focus on more of the tasks that add more value, I think, to the client?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: You know, more client focused stuff.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I think the digging around and getting the right information back is obviously hugely important, but it's such a no one's going to enjoy that that's going to take forever to get that information.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah look I, I don't think anyone needs to worry.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: So, first thing at foster day, never is we're growing so fast if we can create capacity in our talent.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Um, happy days.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I I just not worried about that and it was my mind.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: You know, when um people talk about um automating the para planners job, I think they misunderstand what the para planners are doing doing, you know, they're researching, they're looking to work with the partner to create a solution for a client.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, sure, they've got to document it and there might be some help in documenting some soft facts, for example, that to most, the paraplanner needs to understand the soft facts but they're not the ones collecting it.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: So that's not really cutting out a job.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: It might make it easier to do some record keeping brilliant.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: But what?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: What's really the value add of a paraplanner is is understanding from the partner what the client needs are and looking at options, you know, putting a recommendation together.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: That's, that's the value add, not not the writing report no, absolutely, and that's the thing free them up to do that.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, there we go.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I think I'm on board with that.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I spoke with a venny.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not promoting them, by the way, but I did speak with them and they went through their proposition, which I thought was really good.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I think you've seen it as well.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I think what came up for me that I found really interesting was around training and development and also the recognition of vulnerable clients.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: So if you were to do like a video call with a client that you can pick up on certain body language and things that they're saying questions, they might be avoiding their eyes moving around and it could pick up things like financial vulnerability or manipulation, and I thought that was really cool because it's another layer of protection for a client that is vulnerable, which I think is pretty amazing.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: What I also loved about that machine learning element and as we all service more people through video is that it's picking um training and development opportunities.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: So what went well?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: It scores you on what you said, how you said it, how you structured it, and not only that, repackages everything you said, gives it back to you with some points, etc.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: So that's only going to be connecting in with compliance, isn't it?
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: That's only going to be adding another level of um safety and security for the consumers that are out there and an ability for somebody to improve upon the things that they might not see because they're just doing them in autopilot.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that it will allow us to prioritize where we spend our time.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: So it will help us to see where you know, where the areas are that we should focus on, whether that be in training, as you say, whether it's in compliance monitoring.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: You know there's been technology around for a long, long time.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Speech analytics is actually quite old technology now.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Businesses have been using speech analytics to identify, you know, potential complaints for a long time.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: You know most good call centers will have been employing that technology, for you know, most good call centres will have been employing that technology for, you know, 15, 20 years.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: So, but the interfaces that are available now in real time to flag, you know, potentially while you're speaking, you know, I don't know.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: You know we don't have a call centre environment here.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: We're talking about a one-to-one or one-to-two relationship.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: That's really a deep relationship.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: So for me, I think that and Avani is an example of this that ability to collect more data and for the technology to be intelligent enough to give you some insights from it, that's that's new and that's different and that should mean we can.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: We can prioritize our time in the right place which, as you say, is to the benefit of the consumer that's brilliant I um.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: About four years ago there was an app that came out um.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: It was a coaching app called claro.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: It was claro well-being, claro um, and it was a well-being um proposition to come out sort of coaching a well-being proposition to come out.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: So coaching like well-being proposition, not financial planning coaching, I mean.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: It closed it, you know, raised a lot of money.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: They had to go at it c to c and then had to go at b to b but unfortunately the business had to close right.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: But they ended on b to b and you're a business that's got the employee benefit side, which I think is powerful, absolutely powerful, because if there's any well-being access to well, is there any?
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: If there's any platform where you can advise on financial well-being to have a really positive impact for everybody involved, I think it is businesses.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: And in that space are you doing anything?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: yeah, we we preeminent in that space.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: So in um financial well-being, that the the critical part of it is to get people to take action.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: That's what you need to do.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: So all of our work with employers in this space is to do with understanding, showing people what the position that they're in is, which is a personal matter but giving them the information so that they can come to that conclusion, and helping them to take action, inspiring them and motivating them, showing them a path.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: You know, let's not just hold.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: You know, hold the scorecard up.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Three out of 10, move along.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: You know, three out of 10, we can get you to six by doing this.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: How would that be?
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: How would it be if I could show you a way that in five years time you'll be on track?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: So it's inspiring people to take action.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: You know, baby steps, early milestones, early deliverable milestones.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I think financial planning in the workplace in general is an untapped market.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I think B2B from financial planning to businesses is something that financial planners should focus on.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Most of the successful financial planners that I know have got a B2B strategy.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: They develop B2B strategies.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think it's just.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I would be doing.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I'd be going straight into the place where I could speak to hundreds or if not thousands of people, like if I was a financial planner.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: My podcast would be talking to HR professionals senior HR professionals about what it is they do, the crazy great things they're doing within the businesses to make change.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Of course, we'd incorporate things like financial well-being into that.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Now, I'd be doing that because other hr professionals will be listening to it.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: And if other hr professionals are listening to it and they're seeing me positioned as somebody that's innovative and focused on well-being within the workplace and how, if somebody looks after their own financial well-being, the positive effect it has on the bottom line of the company, if they seem to be helping those individuals under financial stress, for example, and giving them accessibility to something which is usually not accessible to them, delivering simple workshops or an app or something along those lines then you're flying into the businesses and you're getting a client that can give you access to lots and lots of different.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean look, look, the whole referral um.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Growth by referral is the same in employee benefits as it is in private wealth.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you know, we, we grow through hrds, uh, finance directors, um head of division, saying these guys came in and it made a difference, that we measure the difference that we make.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: So you know you're running a workshop, yes, but you're checking what people did as a result of it.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Again, it's that taking action.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: You know, we record the number of people within an organisation that have gone and increased their contribution to their workplace pension because we've shown them what that means and what part that can play in their well-being.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: So it's not running a presentation.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: You really need to get in and amongst it, and not everybody does.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: That's what we do.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: We're in and amongst it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: So you're right to call it a B2B.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like that because, although we're contracted by the business, the, the impact we're trying to have is on their people yeah, that's yeah, and that's essentially I.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Probably what I'm trying to get at is how can I I kind of come at it from, I suppose, from a marketing perspective just then.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: It's like, how can I position myself as that key person of influence when it comes to financial well-being from a planning power, like from a financial planning perspective, using what I know which is podcast marketing, for example?
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Perhaps I'm just trying to pitch a podcast for you next question always closing yeah, always closing right.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Women in financial planning is a great thing.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: We need more women in the financial planning profession and you are, like I said earlier, one of those rarities which is a female in a leadership within financial planning.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Just look first off.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Why should women join the financial planning profession?
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Why do you think it's such a good profession?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Why have you enjoyed it so much?
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I you enjoyed it so much?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's a very human, it's a very I mean, this isn't really a a female answer to the question necessarily.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Um, why I love it is because it's all about people and interactions with people and it's a very human game and that's not what most people think when they look at the outside and looking at financial services.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: But you know, I attended a friend's retirement drinks, you know, the other night, and people that are there.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: She's known for years different businesses and they've moved and they're all still friends and you know, we all still come together and, um, that's what the industry feels like to me.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I mean that that's not about about it being female or otherwise, but it's why I've loved it is is because it it's so human and it's it's so sociable.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: People make me, make me laugh.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: You know we have a real laugh in our business and you know seeing, you know young people coming through and developing and such.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: It's all part of just what floats my boat.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: To be honest, one of the things I think that is very helpful for a lot of women in financial services is that you can work quite flexibly, so it's possible to work, especially now, of course, remotely, it's possible to work slightly different hours and you know the coincidence is a certain time in your life when you're building your career and also building a family and that's not unique to women, but it still often is a choice that a couple will make.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: That that's something the woman wants to prioritise and be very much central to.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: And if couples are making those choices, then financial services is a place where you can build your career and build your family at the same time, and it's just that some walks of life that's much harder than others.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: So I think you're beginning to see that come through.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Obviously, it takes a long time for you know a person, you know if they're in their, you know 20s and 30s now to have the experience and the know how to go, and, you know, be a board director, for example.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: So it's going to take some time, I think, for some of those flexible working patterns that are now so readily understood as being a good idea, to really show you know, get to the place where you know half of the board of directors of the large companies are female.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: But I think we're probably on the right track.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: The other thing is, I think it's expected now that a person would call out inequality.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Expected now that a person would call out inequality.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to be quite as brave.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Now, I know that's not true of every organisation.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: It's very true here.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I hope it's very true here.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: People are not shy in coming forward if something doesn't look right in any way, shape or form.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: People will tell me what they think, or tell somebody what they think, and I recognise it's not like that in every business.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I do think, though, that in general, the world has made it easier, you know, in general to have those conversations, so that will even its way out.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: It will trickle through.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: At FD, we've got slightly more than half of our leadership team so kind of the people reporting into the board are women that's fantastic, so that's huge in respect to financial services it is that's massive.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Why do you think so many women are working in the power planner roles then?
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Because it's like three quarters, they reckon, of power planners are female.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Why are more women in?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Because to me that looks like an area we can, if they want to, of course, retrain them up into becoming financial planners and reducing that gap.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: There we've got, with male and female in the financial planner side.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I think I could be wrong about this, but I think that it's been accepted for longer, that para planners can be more remote, that they can work from home and work different hours.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I think it was for some time considered to be, you know, quite a you know in a quiet room doing some you know, thinking some research and deep work with you know best, without distractions.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: So it didn't maybe require the same level of intervention day in, day out or hour in, hour out.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: So maybe that played to the flexibility earlier than other roles did.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I mean you know.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: COVID is obviously what's changed the norm, and it will just be a long time think before.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: But I remember when, um, you know our head of um, people and culture, louise, when she started at foster day, novo and she started sort of getting to understand how our people work, she said to me you know, we've got an awful lot of part-timers, an awful lot of slightly different hours working.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: So already when she she joined it was a long time ago we were already on that path.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: So maybe you know we're a little bit further ahead in terms of the impact of that allowing again, it's allowing women to build their families and their careers at the same time, rather than to say, well, for a period of time, I'm going to go focus on that and then I'll be able to throw myself back into it.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: That's not how I've looked at life.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: You know you multitask, I think it's also to do with um attraction.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: So more women in leadership roles coming on podcasts like this and talking about their careers, and more women will see that and think, well, I would like to do that, I'd like to do that job.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Um little girls or girls will want to look up and see women in different positions doing different.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: You know not just traditionally, what women would do.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: So I think um more women in leadership roles, more women in leadership roles out there, marketing, talking and sharing what it's like to work within the financial planning profession, not just because you're female, but because you love it and it's a great profession for everybody.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the key, isn't it?
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got um.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: So I set the financial plan life academy and um predominantly in there.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: We've got a good mix.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you exactly what it is.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: There's quite a lot of females in there.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: So I talked to a lot of women who want to become financial planners and they're really passionate, excited about it.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: They tend to be more focused on the niche niching down.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: So I had um kerry griffith on my podcast, uh, this week actually, and that's what you think of this.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Her niche is women divorcing multi-millionaire ceos.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: That's her niche.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: That's very specific.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: It's very specific and she follows the whole dan priestly key person of influence type model with something that I did with financial plan of life to be a key person of influence within the financial planning profession because at the time I was a recruiter and I just love the niche that she's gone for.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: But I do tend to find when I have conversations with women they tend to be more inclined to go down that niche and find it towards women's solutions or events in women's lives where perhaps they're not represented as much as they would be and where things might favour a male.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I've never been that clear.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: No.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, I mean, I didn't approach my career with an ambition to be, you know, a woman in an influential job.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: It didn't occur to me to look at it, no, no, no, I never felt like that.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: What got you into financial services?
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I just accidentally fell into it.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I've never been as clear.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: The lady you've spoken about has obviously got a really clear idea about what she wants to do and why she wants to do it right.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: And I've, you know, I'm still wondering um, yeah, I, I fell into um, into financial services in 1989, uh, and I haven't left, so, yeah, I mean it was just luck.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And then you know, you, you pick up the vibe and of course you know, the more that you get to know it and you, the more the history you've got and the relationships that you build and the networking that you've got, you know it does tend to, I think, once you're in it, you're in it, yeah.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's a really exciting time for anybody joining the profession.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's going for a massive evolution, a shift, and I think we need loads of new people coming in at all different stages of their lives.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: So again, I'm I think you guys are doing a fantastic job at foster de novo of making a career within financial planning accessible to everybody, because I've interviewed people that have come in without any experience and now they're working their way towards being a financial planner and they're absolutely loving life.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: They're loving being in the environment that is of growth mindset.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there aren't enough advisors in the UK, right, so of course it's, a great place to be.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know why wouldn't you, you know, join some?
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: You know, join an industry that is investing in itself?
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: The market is growing, there's a strong demand for it is growing.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: There's a strong demand for it.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Um, and you know, most people that I know that have spent their careers in financial services think it's a hoot.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think people just need to talk about it more.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, this is what the whole point of this is misunderstood.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: I think people imagine that it's very dull and you know, uh, very kind of analytical, and when I say to people, it's actually it's all about people, you know it's, yeah, takes people by surprise, so yeah.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: So I think it's a wonderful place to be good, before we end this, what are you the most excited about over the next few years?
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: What's really kind of getting you excited?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's the rate that we're growing which gives us such a good opportunity to share in that success with our people and with an increasing number of people.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: So you know we are a growing business, both in terms of the number of people that we have, the number of offices that we have, our profit, our revenue, our net promoter score.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I mean on every level we are growing.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: It's really exciting because things change when you're you know we every level we are growing.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: It's really exciting because things change when you're you know we can reinvest into our business.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And I've said to people, I know sometimes you know the challenges that it brings are significant.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: You know we have to work really hard and we don't always get it right the first time, but you know we keep going, we keep going, keep going until we do um, and businesses are only ever growing or shrinking.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: A business will not be staying the same.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: It doesn't happen, um.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: So the you know if you're going to make a choice in being in a business that's growing or a business that's shrinking, it's not very complicated, is it?
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: so I'm really excited.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're investing so much in our business, in our people, in our propositions, and that will continue over the next two years.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: But it's shining through.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: So from the outside looking in now, me being on the inside talking to people it's shining through.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: So the more you can do to shout about it from the rooftops, I think there's your solution.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think you're going to have a problem at all in growing your business because there's so much energy here.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: You business because there's so much energy here.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good, you know it's so much energy.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: The um, you know, the office environment in and of itself is, um, it's got a bit of a zing um, which you know I love.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: That's what it's all about yeah helen, thank you so much for sharing your career journey, your insight into financial planning and foster de novo it's been an absolute pleasure yeah, nice to see you, cheers.