Latest / A Level Playing Field / Joelle Murray on loyalty and life in the Hibs dugout I A Level Playing Field I Episode 28

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Joelle Murray on loyalty and life in the Hibs dugout I A Level Playing Field I Episode 28 · A Level Playing Field

• 0:00
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• 0:06
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• 0:23
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• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to a level playing field.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Cheryl Smith, joined as ever by Alison McConnell.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to introduce our guest this week.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to get straight into it.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: We are here at the Hibs Training Centre, joined by Joelle Murray, the Hibs manager.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Joelle, thank you so much for giving us your time and coming on the podcast.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for travelling through to the training centre.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'd imagine you guys are as busy as we are here.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Alison is.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a giver driver.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, what we like to do for people listening is to give people an insight into the person that we're speaking to.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously you and a person who's been around football for not to aid you, a long time.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've been through the the player now into the manager ranks.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: But just for everyone listening, for the maybe the one person that doesn't know where where it all began for you, where did your football journey begin way back when?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, way back when it was uh when I was when I was five-year-old, that was probably the earliest memories that that I had of of the game that I've now grown to absolutely love.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the the passion, the desire and the interest came from from my dad.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: He played, he he then went into management.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then from a club perspective, he supported Hibbs.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um so again, that's where my love for the club came from.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's played an integral part um in my journey into football um from the very start up until the present day.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, from from five years old, the the love of the game and the love of the the club started, and here we are a good number of years down the line now, and it's still as uh still as strong as ever.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Where did your dad play?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Position.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh club, what's all that club?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so he was midfield, um, I believe, uh, or so he tells me.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um he he played locally, so he played East of Scotland down in the borders, um, Churnside, um uh Eye Mouth, um so yeah, it was it was local clubs, but yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't change that upbringing.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was at his training when he let me um every every night.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was at his games every weekend and it just consumed me.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as I say, the love, the passion, the desire came from from that very early age.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: You forget as well that when you go on the journey you've been on, that it's a celebration for everyone around about you.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine your dad's probably enjoyed your career as much as you've enjoyed your career.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not only my dad, my mum, my my grandparents, um they've lived and breathed every step of the way with me because of course, coming from the borders, it's uh a 45-minute drive up the the the A1 to Edinburgh.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then you go beyond that when you introduce your um your national team activities.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they they gave up a lot um for me.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'd like to think that I'm I'm giving back now in pride and joy and and just love of seeing their their daughter, their granddaughter kind of thriving in the the environment that they help build.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: See when you think back to being that that little five-year-old way back then, is it quite surreal to then be sitting here now as the manager of the club?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think about it every day.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't take it for granted at all.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think the evolution of of me at the club is has been from that five-year-old supporter coming to Easter Road, sitting in the the the old East Terrace with my dad, with my brother, um to now being the head coach, kind of David Grey popping in every every day, Sammy, Liam, the background staff, just having those relationships with with the manager, with the the staff here was probably well was definitely nothing I thought would would ever happen when I was that five-year-old, even when I was the the the 12-year-old coming into the club at um under 17s level to then gain the captaincy at 17s, transition into the women's first team.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Never in my wildest dreams could I think um I'd be sitting here now in the position that I am, kind of having the conversations I am with the people that that I'm having them with at the club.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's really, really surreal and um something I definitely don't take for granted.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'd imagine too, like that day a couple of years back when you were honoured by Atletico Madrid, you know, you got the one club award.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine that would have brought home not just the impact that your time at Hibs has had here uh at Easter Road and in Leith, but also how recognised it was further afield.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I I couldn't believe it when I received the email.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't know anything about the award, um, but when I looked into it, I absolutely couldn't believe that it was me, a girl from the borders, that was receiving such a prestigious award.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And moments like that, it makes you you kind of stop and reflect and really take note and and and be proud of of the career that that that you've had because football goes so quick, you you finish a game and the next one comes so quick.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So at times you don't have a moment to to be present and kind of just reflect on what you've done.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a nice kind of pause moment for me, and uh as I say, it was a a nice bit of recognition for um obviously the the the award stands for loyalty and commitment to one club, so it was nice to to receive that and for a club like them of of their size to to to acknowledge, as I say, me, a girl from the borders and what I've done for for this club.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just give us a bit of background to what that entailed and and what it was like to go over there and be presented with it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was unbelievable and an experience that I'll never experience it again.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think identifying a fixture that that allowed me to go over in a busy football schedule.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously at the time the one club man was Jamie Carriger.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So at the time I was nominated and was receiving mine, I didn't know who the one club man was.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when I found out it was Jamie, and I found out it was uh a fixture that we were both going to be presented together, I think that just really enhanced the experience because he's a he's a familiar face, he's an icon in the game, he's an icon down at at Liverpool.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, it made that experience even better than than than I can even describe.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So went over for two days.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was it was busy, but a good busy and enjoyable busy.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Met the the squad, the men's first team, was presented with a kit, um met the women's team, toured the the training facility, unbelievable facility that's a shared facility, um like like here at East Mainz, um and then was hosted pre-game in in the president's suite um and everything that comes with that, how the other half live.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then walk out um to to be presented in the middle of of the the stadium.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: The San Mes was was outstanding.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know at the time, um or I didn't know before it, but as I was walking out, Sunshine on Leaf played and it made uh a very special moment, a very special and emotional moment because hearing that ring around the stadium again it was just that moment of wow, this is this is for me.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I I couldn't believe it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Can I imagine it'd be really humble?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, extremely humbling.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was really a a special moment that will sit up there with all the the pitch moments, the the league wins, it'll sit up there um at the top of the the standout moments in my career.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose when you're going through your career, you don't know, you can't tell ahead of time what's going to happen, but and you you stayed at Hibbs for your whole career.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: But during that time in your playing career, was there opportunities for you to move away and why did you maybe turn some of those down?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there were opportunities.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think when I was younger, I think 17 I got an opportunity to go um to FAU in Florida um on a scholarship, but I um was extremely homely.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm very family oriented, so it was uh an unbelievable opportunity, but for me it was it was the wrong time.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't even think I would have done it latter stages in my career just because of how close I am with my family.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then opportunities down south.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think naturally when managers move away from the club, they they come back to the club for for players that they they think would add value to the new club.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it was always head-and-heart decision and and the heart over overruled the head.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, obviously the game was still in its infancy from a professionalism perspective or from a financial perspective in those moments.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was a little bit of money, but not a lot.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But even even now, if I was offered an opportunity down south, if I was in my prime, I don't think I would go.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, um it's it's always football over finance.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Money never ever motivated me, and I knew that what I had here was what I wanted to continue being in, continue growing.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously the the love for the club kind of just helped that that decision to stay.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see yourself as fundamental and and so integral to the growth of this women's team and this chapter of the women's team come into prominence within the club?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I'd like to think so.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think using my profile, using who I am at the club in a selfish way for the women's team, I've done that and I've done that in abundance, and I'm I'm not shy to say it because um I think it's important for me to do that and ask questions and constantly push boundaries and challenge because I want the best for the players.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if they're not getting that from me, I I feel like I'm letting them down.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I do feel like I'm integral, but we've got a really good staff group in there as well, who I want to empower to be the best version of themselves and also empower them to also challenge and um ask questions as well.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: What's been the toughest part of your career, do you think?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um the toughest part, I mean, football naturally has its highs and lows.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest piece of advice I received was never get too high and never get too low.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um because as soon as you get a high, very quickly you get a low.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the toughest part um for for me was when I was offered the the this role, I guess self-doubt.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm someone who has always had an element of self-doubt throughout my playing career, throughout my post-playing career.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point that I was asked, I thought, can I do this?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Can I can I be the person that sits at the top of all of this?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess that moment, those days after, I knew I wanted to do it, but I thought, can I do it?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then speaking to the people in the building, asking, asking their advice, asking their support, um, people that have been in the same situation, um just gave me that confidence to to really trust myself and really take myself out of my comfort zone.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably been the hardest moment or days, but extremely delighted that that that I'd done what I've done and accepted it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, that that self-doubt throughout my career and moment um has always been has always been hard.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask you about like when you got that call last December and that Grant was leaving, and because for the out for us on the outside, it seems like the kind of natural progression that you would move through into that role.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: But that's interesting to hear that you kind of doubted your yourself almost.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: But now that you've been in in the job for where you had the last half of the season and now you've had a pre-season and started the new season.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel differently about it now and you you glad that you stepped up and took that on?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one 100%.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think change in life, not just football, but change in life brings a bit of anxiety.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm someone who likes routine, it's very samey.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'll have the same lunch every day.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I love routines, so just stepping outside my comfort zone, um, as I say, in those moments it made me think, can I can I do it?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm I'm delighted that that I've done it.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I said to to Malcolm Mackay and Ian Gordon, who were the two that had the conversations with me about taking the role, uh and I say it to everyone at the club as well, don't just I want to be the right person and the best person for the role.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to just get it just because of who I am.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want to to earn the right.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and as I say, I say the same to to everyone at the club when I'm asking a question, don't just give me a yes.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I want a no, give me a no.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I'm delighted, delighted to have accepted the opportunity.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for for me being now sitting at the top of um what we're building here, having the ability to to make things happen, of course, in the assistant role, there was things that I probably would have liked to have changed, um, but obviously couldn't.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so now having the opportunity to try and make those changes, 1% changes because I think previous management we we built a really good strong foundation, but now in the position that I'm at I'm in, I'm I'm able to really go and go after those changes and try and implement structural changes on the pitch and of the pitch as well.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's time for our player of the week, sponsored by Nutmeg Magazine, the home of brilliant football stories.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Check out the latest issue at nutmegmagazine.co.uk.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: This week's player of the week, sponsored by Nutmeg, goes to Emily Grey after her hat trick at the weekend as Glasgow City emphatically swept Livingston aside with an 8-nil win in the Sky Sports Cup.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: That victory tees up a mouthwatering quarterfinal clash with the holders hosting Celtic in the next phase of the competition.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: That was our Nutmeg Magazine player of the week.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: For more great football writing and to order the latest issue, visit nutmegmagazine.co.uk.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is it all consuming for you?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you are you can eat, sleep, breathe?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, all consuming.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a perfectionist, I'm sometimes a control freak.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just like things done right, or I say right, and it's not just a dictatorship or it's my way or no way.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's a an extremely collaborative staff group um just sitting next door, and I love that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to challenge me the way I like I challenge them.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's consuming because I can't switch off.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be watching the tele at night and I'll be thinking, possession drill, how can I make that different?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's to my detriment, but I do it because I love it.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: I do it because I want the best for the the players.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if it means that I'm doing all of that, it means maybe someday else is not watching Extenders or watching Coronation Street thinking about possession drills.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, it's it's all consuming, but I do it because I love it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I know one day I won't have this.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were talking about that doubt and and the questions you might have had and challenging yourself, and I think there's I think that's quite an interesting female perspective of that always being a bit apprehensive about challenging something new, but that's for me an entirely different discourse.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: But who is it helpful to maybe speak to people out with football, like to rely maybe on friends that you've you've maybe got or relationships that you have that maybe don't lean into football to just have some a a perception that's completely fresh and and that aren't immersed within the game and then give you a different perspective on things?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, completely.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think having that fresh perspective, uh fresh pair of eyes.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think again it's getting that balance because un until you're in football, you don't know the pressures, you don't know the stresses.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the balance between getting that uh fresh external, someone completely removed from the game's opinion can help um give you a more considered decision to a certain situation.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think it's it's great having the opportunity to to do that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of my friends um are in football, so it's it's quite difficult, and well, in football in some capacity, so it's quite difficult to get that kind of um removed opinion, but when you do get it, it it gives you that thought-provoking um perspective as well.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's quite it's quite helpful.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: It must have been quite strange for you as well in that first game as manager against Celtic and you look across in the posting dugout as the man that you stood next to just three weeks before.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It must have been quite bizarre.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just I'm sure once that's over that that's that's over with.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: But was it a bit weird to begin with?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was strange, a strange dynamic, and I think Nrad spoke about it as well.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: He he said the same.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, once you get that first one out of the way, it then just removes that um that's also the fact that it wasn't the first one, it wasn't just the first time that you came up against one another, it was a first for both of you.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So he being in in the dugout, and then all of a sudden he's back, he's in the same place, but in the opposition dugout, it's just within two minutes, really, even within a couple of weeks.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, was it bizarre?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then the fact that the game pre-Christmas was Celtec, post-Christmas was Celtec, obviously Cup League, um or League Cup, I think it was.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, but getting that first one out of the way, it just removes that not awkwardness, because Grant and I have a good relationship, but just removes that how's it going to be?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think having it as uh quickly after things changed probably helped both of us.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: See when you're when you were coaching as well and then becoming manager, you coaching and managing players that you once played alongside, is it is it difficult?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to kind of have a readjustment of that relationship almost when you go from put teammates to manager?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think ever so slightly though, because I've always said I don't want to compromise who I am.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't want to just change the way I carry myself, the way I speak, because I've moved into a head coach role.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's an element of the group, there's a group of new players who've just recruited in the summer, players who I worked with last season, players who I worked with last season who were teammates and have now become friends.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there's an element of treating everyone as individuals.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not someone who likes to, where possible, take a blanket approach to things because every single player is different, they receive things differently, they act different.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So an example of that, Smalley um wasn't she wasn't starting the last game, she'd started every game up to the last game, and I phoned her and I just said, Look, here's a rationale behind it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and she's one of the ones who was a teammate and is now a friend.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: She says, You don't need to phone me for that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I says, I know I don't, but I respect you enough to give you that phone call, obviously her being club captain as well.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So just having that individual approach to to different players, I think for me is is really important, and and I always adopt uh what would I have wanted if I was a player?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: How would I have wanted that message delivered if I was a player?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And nine times out of ten it can work, sometimes it doesn't, but I suppose that that is about communication, really.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you can communicate that very clearly, then you remove someone thinking something that doesn't exist.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like if if you go away and you sit with your own thoughts, you might come to a different conclusion than what your rationale was behind the decision.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you just have very clear communication, it removes any of that kind of doubt or anything that can simmer in a background that it's just everything's above board and and it's all very straightforward.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that just comes down to a very clear line of communication.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think clarity of communication is so important um in a football club because of course Smolly would have probably put the phone down and been frustrated and disappointment, uh had disappointment, but I I think she would have respected it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's the clarity around you're not starting because opposed to like you say.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: her her going away and maybe manifesting, oh is it because of this, is it because of that?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me that's something I'm big on the clarity of the message and the clarity of the communication just to eradicate any of that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And as I say, there'll be frustration.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um she's probably put the phone down and cursed me but um I'd like to think she's she's still routined that respect for me.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a harder conversation with a friend and former teammate than it is with someone that you've got no pre-existing relationship with?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and it's something I I kind of struggled with the first few times I had to do it.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's like anything else the more you do it the more comfortable you get with it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it did find um I did find it very difficult at first for for those players who have become friends but I think it's just important for for me to to continue not compromising who I am and being comfortable being uncomfortable.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I say it to the players every single day we're in doing analysis I don't want us standing up here speaking at you.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to fluidly engage ask questions challenge and be comfortable being uncomfortable because very quickly weeks down the line months down the line probably won't be able to shut them up because they're just chatting chatting chatting so yeah I think just uh constantly put myself in situations that I need to be in um but situations that hopefully give me a little bit more comfort the more the more and more I do them.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the importance of that communication?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Does that come from experiences that you had when you were a player and other managers I don't you things that you had or didn't have that you now want to implement?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I think as you go through your playing career you pick up little things from different managers whether it be club managers or or national team managers good and bad those there'll be things that I've gone through and thought can't believe they've done that I'm definitely not doing that and because it's landed in a certain way but yeah I think that communication is something that I have took from various managers David Grey's communication I've sat in in his his his meetings a number of times now and the way that he speaks the clarity of his message and the tone is unbelievable so if we're looking at people in the building David Grey is someone that I look at and really admire with the way he he he communicates the clarity the tone his nature and but out with that um Jack Ross we actually done a uh a session with with Jack Ross um on the the pro license day around leadership and communication and the way he he held the room it was it was unbelievable and he said that comes with experience and now he actually thrives on it.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: He he said it gives him a sense of being back in the changing room.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So for me the importance of learning from from previous coaches managers and just people within my network um picking those one percent as I say sometimes one percent good one percent bad but I think that's uh really really crucial as you you go through your journey well there you go quite soon I know you've got another engagement but just be before you go a couple of wee things what would you have been if football didn't hold a career path for you what would you have done?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Good question Alison football has just consumed my life um so there's never been a chance to do anything else however at school I had a really keen interest in in art um so maybe an artist and business management so my three um kind of um classes at school that I really enjoy PE, art and business management.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe an artist or maybe somewhere in in business who knows and uh I know you mentioned there about being a homebird and enjoying you know never being tempted to go elsewhere because you wanted to make cibs your home does that change with maturity and years and managerial situations because we know you know we've seen Eva Odd make a huge transition down south and going to Manchester United we've seen other managers move around would you be tempted as a manager to to step down south at any point or go elsewhere for that matter?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I would never say never I've always been someone who um believes in process so if we're looking at coaching qualifications I probably could have just jumped straight to the B licence.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to start from the beginning and work my way up and I'm not naive I'm still very early in my kind of head coach journey so for me it's not something immediate term that I'm looking at.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I want to really build and grow myself in the club here and but never never say never.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's been great to speak to you thank you so much for uh for giving us your time and for inviting us here to the lovely Hibs Training Centre and Alison the Dark Wear duties to get us here but uh thank you so much thank you to everyone for listening thank you to Alison as well