Latest / Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers / 236: Forgiveness Is for You: How to Let Go of Anger and Stop Replaying the Past with Emily Ricks

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236: Forgiveness Is for You: How to Let Go of Anger and Stop Replaying the Past with Emily Ricks · Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers

• 0:20
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Have you ever had somebody hurt you, and even though the situation is over, then you still found yourself replaying it in your mind?
• 0:28
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: If you are an overgiver, then forgiveness, it can sometimes feel like just another way that you're supposed to put other people's needs ahead of your own.
• 0:36
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you might worry that forgiving someone, it means letting them off the hook or pretending that what it is that they did was okay with you.
• 0:42
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: what if forgiveness isn't about making somebody else feel better?
• 0:46
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: What if it is about freeing yourself?
• 0:49
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: today we're going to be talking about how forgiveness can help us to reclaim our peace without excusing somebody else's behavior, and I am so excited to welcome Emily Ricks to the show.
• 0:59
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Emily is a certified life coach.
• 1:01
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: She's the host of the"Parenting Teens" podcast and a mother of four.
• 1:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: She helps moms to stop overthinking and stop over-owning so that they can feel more confident and connected in their relationships.
• 1:12
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So Emily, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:14
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Is there anything else you'd like to add to that introduction?
• 1:17
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Nope, that about sums it up.
• 1:18
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Just being able to manage your own internal experience as you're parenting.
• 1:23
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's my passion is just helping people become aware.
• 1:25
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: What are they thinking and feeling, rather than being so focused on what other people are doing and trying to control that, which is just insanity, right?
• 1:32
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love that.
• 1:33
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah, so Emily, I love that we're talking about forgiveness today because I think a lot of us spend a lot of time thinking and rethinking about the past.
• 1:41
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So how can we get out of that?
• 1:44
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 1:44
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So I love the work of Dr.
• 1:48
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Fred Luskin.
• 1:48
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: He has a book called"Forgive for Good", and so that's where some of the things that I've learned have come from.
• 1:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And he talks about what we do.
• 1:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Here's, here's what happens when we form a, a grudge, let's call it, is we start with something called a grievance story, and that is when we believe that something should have happened differently than it did.
• 2:08
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So this person shouldn't have said this thing, they shouldn't have asked me to do it, or oftentimes with ourselves, I should have known better, I shouldn't have made that decision, I shouldn't have let that person say whatever, right?
• 2:18
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So we just have this regret in the past, and we spin it around, and we spin it around believing that it should have been different than it was.
• 2:25
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And it feels productive because we think,"Well, if I can regret it hard enough, then I can make sure it doesn't happen again."
• 2:31
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Ooh.
• 2:33
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But
• 2:33
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: writing that down.
• 2:34
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: If I can regret it hard enough.
• 2:36
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Say that again.
• 2:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: If I can regret it hard enough, then I can somehow make sure that it's not gonna happen again.
• 2:44
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Doesn't it feel like that sometimes?
• 2:46
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: and you're right, it does create this, false sense of empowerment, right?
• 2:49
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: and then I'm gonna have more control
• 2:49
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes
• 2:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: over if it happens again, if I'm mistreated again.
• 2:53
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But it's, yeah, it's this false agreement, right, with the universe that, oh yeah, if I regret it enough, it, won't happen.
• 3:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and it generally has the opposite effect, right?
• 3:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Because what we focus on and dwell on and ruminate on, we bring more of that into our experience.
• 3:09
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so, part of forgiveness is to notice a grievance story, and rather than continuing to feed and water it, we have to notice it and say,"You know what?
• 3:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Actually, instead of arguing and saying it should've been different and it should've been like this, and I shouldn't have said that, and they shouldn't have done that," the actually the first step, which is really counterintuitive, is to accept this is what occurred.
• 3:33
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: This did happen.
• 3:34
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I did say this.
• 3:35
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: They did say that.
• 3:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: This is the decision that I made.
• 3:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But instead of making our emotions come from that thing that happened in the past, we say, that happened in the past, and my current thinking is what's creating my feelings now," right?
• 3:49
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So that's, that's kind of like the magic.
• 3:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But I will say, I mean, even the word forgiveness, like if you're listening right now, I just want you to like tune in for a second.
• 3:58
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: When I say that word, like how do you feel?
• 4:00
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Are you like,"Don't make me eat those vegetables.
• 4:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't wanna forgive." Because I, I hear people say all the time, they're like,"Well, forgiveness is hard." And so I guess I just kinda wanna get up, get that out there in the beginning.
• 4:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't want you hearing the word forgiveness and thinking, like, I'm trying to shove some gross vegetables down your throat.
• 4:18
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Or, I mean, how I like to think of it sometimes is a, a toddler who's really tired and cranky and, you know, can't, can't be happy, and doesn't wanna eat, and doesn't wanna do anything, and is grumpy.
• 4:30
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And as the adult in the equation, we're like,"Oh, you need a nap." And they're like,"No, I don't.
• 4:34
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I am not tired." Right?
• 4:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's, that's kind of how I think of forgiveness is that...
• 4:39
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And I do it, too.
• 4:40
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: We, we think of it as like,"No, I don't wanna take a nap." But, like, as an adult, don't you love napping?
• 4:45
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Isn't it the best?
• 4:46
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You're like,"I'm so tired.
• 4:48
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I just wanna lay down and close my eyes, and then my headache will go away.
• 4:51
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And when I wake up, I'll love my kids again, and everything will be great," right?
• 4:55
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: You were so
• 4:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: that's how I, that's how I want you to think about forgiveness is, like, this is something you do for you, and you're gonna feel amazing if you allow it
• 5:04
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: so interesting,'cause using the toddler example, that kind of has me thinking about emotional maturity, right?
• 5:09
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So it's the emotionally immature toddler mind that's like,"No, you can't make me," but you're spot on.
• 5:14
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Like, the nap example, yeah, that hit me hard'cause I'm like, oh yeah, like I love a good nap.
• 5:19
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: if you invite me to
• 5:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah
• 5:20
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: after 9:00 PM, no.
• 5:22
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I need my sleep.
• 5:24
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: It's so good for me.
• 5:25
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But it's, it's a completely different mindset.
• 5:27
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: One is"No, you can't make me," another one is like,"No, what is it that I need in order to feel good and in order to be my best self?"
• 5:34
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes.
• 5:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes.
• 5:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And, you know, I hear a lot of people will say like,"Well, forgiveness is hard.
• 5:40
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's just so hard." And I'm like, well, I mean, let's go back to the toddler.
• 5:45
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Imagine this very grumpy, cranky toddler who's like,"But napping is hard." And you're like,"No, what you're doing right now is hard.
• 5:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Like, resisting it and being frustrated and continuing to be grouchy, like that's the hard thing.
• 5:58
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: What's easy is closing your eyes and going to sleep.
• 6:02
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Wow Yep I love your visuals because, yeah, you're so right.
• 6:06
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: It requires so much energy Like, I just think
• 6:10
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes.
• 6:11
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: in my past where I've just have had a really hard time letting it go, and when I think about how much time and mental and emotional energy I have put into it, but, it would just feel so good to just let it go.
• 6:25
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah.
• 6:26
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Now, I wanna talk a little bit, because you talked about these grievance stories, and I love how you set that up.
• 6:31
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But can you tell us a little bit more about how we can identify our own grievance stories?
• 6:35
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Like, you kind of talked about the shoulds, but I'm wondering, is that that we should have or that they should have?
• 6:40
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Or, or how else can we recognize our own grievance stories?
• 6:45
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah I mean, the easiest way, just notice what you complain about.
• 6:49
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Hmm.
• 6:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Start writing it down.
• 6:51
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Just notice,"I complain." What do you complain about?
• 6:54
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and usually there's shoulds in there if you look closely.
• 6:57
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: She shouldn't have said this, I shouldn't have done that, they shouldn't wear that, they shouldn't do that, he shouldn't ask me that, he shouldn't treat me like that.
• 7:03
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: These are grievance stories, and really it's just a belief of I should have gotten something that I didn't get, whether that's an emotion I wanted to feel, right?
• 7:11
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Maybe I wanted to feel included and I didn't at that event, and so I'm like,"They shouldn't have been like that because I should have been able to feel included." And that's a grievance.
• 7:21
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and you know, I don't know if you know Byron Katie, I love her, and she says,"When I argue with reality, I lose, but only 100% of the time." So every grievance story, if you start to notice, you're like,"Oh, but I didn't get that thing, and no matter how much I complain about it, can't change the past."
• 7:39
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Okay,
• 7:39
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's already happened
• 7:40
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you have a grievance that you're arguing with reality and you're not going to Ever.
• 7:45
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: win against reality.
• 7:46
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That's a, that's a truth bomb.
• 7:48
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Ever Right?
• 7:51
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah
• 7:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so it's this interesting thing, right?
• 7:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Because we think somehow that if we replay it and replay it, like I said, if I regret it hard enough, I can make sure it doesn't happen, or I can somehow change it, or if I let go, then I'm saying it's okay.
• 8:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think maybe that's part of it.
• 8:08
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: We wanna protect ourselves from injustices or things that we feel like are rude or unkind or that don't align with our values.
• 8:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Makes sense.
• 8:16
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And yet it doesn't actually work to replay the grievance story again and again.
• 8:21
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Here's, actually what happens.
• 8:23
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: In the moment, you felt a negative emotion, right?
• 8:26
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Let's say somebody s- said something really rude to you, and in the moment you're like,"Ah," you, you know, got offended.
• 8:31
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Like,"Wow, that was really rude.
• 8:33
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't think you should have said that." Five days later, two years later, when you replay that, you are the one who creates the negative emotion now by replaying it in your mind.
• 8:44
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: They said the thing once, but Every single time you replay it, you get a fresh dose of that negative emotion that you didn't like feeling when it happened.
• 8:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so that's where it's like we're doing it to ourselves when we continue to bring it up and complain about it
• 9:01
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Wow.
• 9:02
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah, that ruminating is creating pain for yourself.
• 9:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: like you said, they said the thing once.
• 9:07
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: They did the thing once, but us continuing to hold onto it.
• 9:12
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And I think we often do that because we need the self-validation, right?
• 9:14
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: like, okay, that kind of
• 9:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah
• 9:16
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: okay with me.
• 9:17
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But recognizing hey, it's okay if I have a different value system, and I'm grateful for my value system, and I can still believe that they shouldn't have done that thing, but I don't need to keep hurting myself just because we have a different value system, just because I think that they should have done it differently.
• 9:32
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: 100%.
• 9:33
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, and actually I've noticed for myself and with my clients, this word"should" is very complicated because on the one hand they shouldn't have done that, that's actually true if you're like,"That doesn't match with my values," right?
• 9:47
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: If somebody was abusive or any other kind of negative thing, of course we wanna hold onto the belief like they shouldn't have done that.
• 9:54
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So from a moral imperative, from an idea of what we believe is right and wrong, it can be useful to hang onto that.
• 10:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: However, it's important to notice if your should is trying to say that actually shouldn't have occurred in the past, that's where it's hopeless.
• 10:09
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You cannot change what has occurred, right?
• 10:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You, you will exhaust yourself trying to make it not true that it did happen.
• 10:17
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So if you're like,"It shouldn't have happened," that's different than,"I don't believe that it is appropriate for a person to behave in this way." Do you see the difference?
• 10:27
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's really subtle
• 10:28
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Mm-hmm.
• 10:30
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But that's how I help people to unpack the shoulds.
• 10:32
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Because if you ask someone to let go of all their shoulds, they're like,"Well, who am I without my beliefs?
• 10:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Who am I without my values?" Like, no, I'm not pulling those away from you.
• 10:40
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I just don't want people to be arguing with reality because it drains all of our energy and takes from the present.
• 10:46
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Our present relationships are gonna suffer when we're using our energy to try to change the past
• 10:51
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah.
• 10:51
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: and it's kind of interesting, as we look at it through the value lens, I mean, some things-- Okay, yes, I do think that some things, I just would rather they did not happen on this planet.
• 11:00
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And also with other things, sometimes it's like, you know what?
• 11:03
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: for me in that specific instance, maybe that needed to happen in order to reveal that, oh, okay, that relationship doesn't align with me, or that action doesn't align with me.
• 11:13
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Like, it almost is bringing our values into our own personal awareness.
• 11:19
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 11:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, and I think there's something really deep about this work of choosing to forgive, that this element of acceptance is actually really beautiful and empowering.
• 11:31
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so that's also kind of the shift, right?
• 11:33
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: if you're the two-year-old who doesn't wanna take a nap, and you start to shift into knowing the beauty and the value of forgiveness, I think people go,"Well, I can't forgive because then I'm saying what they did is okay.
• 11:44
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I can't accept what they did because then they're getting off the hook." And what I say is,"No." Is when you begin to embrace...
• 11:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: exactly what you were saying.
• 11:54
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: No, this happened for me.
• 11:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I learned something from this.
• 11:57
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I now know what boundaries I need to set in certain relationships.
• 12:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I now know what I will tolerate and what I won't.
• 12:03
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I now know how I'll respond next time, right?
• 12:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Like, this is beautiful.
• 12:07
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: The, the...
• 12:07
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and so, so to believe this never should have happened, it's like, is that true?
• 12:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It, it happened exactly as it needed to for you to evolve into the next version of yourself.
• 12:17
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Isn't that so much more empowering?
• 12:19
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And thinking about, you know, the toddler mind and the more mature mind, it kind of has me thinking about we wish these things didn't happen, maybe it's just growing pains, right?
• 12:28
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Like as we're
• 12:30
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah
• 12:30
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: as we're learning how to state boundaries, as we're learning how to adapt in a relationship, it's not always a pleasant experience.
• 12:39
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But that doesn't mean...
• 12:40
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: You know, but it still serves a purpose, right?
• 12:43
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But I'm also really curious, as you talk about these grievance stories, it's an interesting word choice, right?
• 12:49
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And, and here on my podcast, we've talked a little bit about the stories in our mind, but will you kind of expand on that a little bit?
• 12:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes.
• 12:57
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, so as part of discovering what your grievance story is, and actually I have a free forgiveness workshop that, if you wanna link to, that'd be great, I can share it with your listeners.
• 13:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: so you identify the grievance story, you figure out what it's creating for you, you start becoming aware of it, and then you can rewrite.
• 13:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You can choose a different story to tell about what happened.
• 13:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: many times when we are not in a place of forgiveness, and when we're, uh, when we have anger and frustration that we're holding onto about something that happened in the past, we think that what we're complaining about is a fact, but it isn't.
• 13:29
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so the difference between a fact and a story, right, is, the facts are what happened.
• 13:35
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You could prove it in a court of law.
• 13:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: you could document it.
• 13:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You could have videotaped it, and everyone would agree.
• 13:41
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But the story is what you make it mean and what you w- w- what, what it creates, the emotion that it creates for you, is what you're telling about it, right?
• 13:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So let's say that somebody was dishonest with you, and so you're like,"Hey, that doesn't align with my values.
• 13:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't believe that people should be dishonest," and you felt betrayed when that occurred, which is totally understandable, right?
• 14:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But when you look at your grievance story, it's like,"Well, they shouldn't have made me feel that way," or, or,"They shouldn't have," um, I'm trying to think.
• 14:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Or even like,"I shouldn't have trusted them." I think that's a common grievance story that people have.
• 14:16
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: "I never should have trusted that person because they lied to me." It's like, okay, well, that's not a fact though.
• 14:23
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: What the, the actual fact is the words that they said were untrue.
• 14:27
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's all.
• 14:28
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: The story of"I never should have trusted them," or,"They are the meanest person ever," or,"Now I need to make sure I never interact with them again or else they're gonna hurt me," these are the stories that cause the pain, right?
• 14:41
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so part of forgiveness is recognizing this thing that I'm replaying, this grievance story that I'm watering every day every time I think about it, isn't a fact.
• 14:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: We hold onto it a little bit looser so that we can start to say,"Well, what interpretation do I want to give to this thing that happened in the past instead of giving all my emotional power away
• 15:03
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Right.
• 15:03
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: to the person that did the thing?"
• 15:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So can I share a personal story that kind of aligns with this So I, I've talked about it once upon a time here on the podcast.
• 15:12
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I didn't really go into depth, but anyway, once upon a time, then there was somebody that wanted to go into business with me, and they turned out to be a total con man.
• 15:22
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: and I had that thought that,"Ah, I shouldn't have trusted them.
• 15:27
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I wasn't listening to my intuition." I made that situation so much worse because of the internal shame, and that was my story, right?
• 15:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah
• 15:39
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: the contrast in how stories can evolve, like when I really sat with it, kinda thought,"Okay, but what's the alternative?
• 15:46
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I don't trust anybody?
• 15:48
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I'm a guarded human?" and ultimately I decided that a more supportive story for me in that instance was, I'm learning and I'm growing and I choose to trust people until I have evidence to the contrary.
• 16:00
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And like, yes, I can have things in place to keep myself safe, I actually like the fact that I choose to see the best in people.
• 16:08
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I like the fact that I'm very sensitive and that I click with people.
• 16:12
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I like those things about me and I don't want to shrink myself, and that's exactly what was happening when I had that grievance story of,"I shouldn't have trusted him." And so it's just interesting to see the
• 16:24
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes
• 16:25
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: but it's a very different emotion that comes through each of those.
• 16:30
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, I really like what you said about shrinking yourself, and think that is ultimately what a grievance story does and what withholding forgiveness from another person, as much as it feels like that's gonna punish them, it shrinks us, right?
• 16:43
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I mean, y- you know, I've heard it said, like, when you hold a grudge against someone else, the hatred that you feel doesn't jump out of your body and into their body.
• 16:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Like, you are the one who's experiencing that negative emotion, which is why forgiveness is for you.
• 16:56
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Hmm
• 16:57
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: They may or may not know.
• 16:58
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You can forgive someone who has passed away.
• 17:00
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You can forgive someone and never tell them and never talk to them again, but it's for you.
• 17:05
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's, it's, it's a complete emotional shift inside of you that, like you said, is supportive to you
• 17:11
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And that's so interesting'cause it has me thinking like, I think that all of us have had situations where we thought,"Okay, but if I get angry enough, if I get resentful enough, that'll stick it to them." But again, that's like keeping you small.
• 17:24
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That's not actually serving you, and they might not ever learn their lesson if there's a lesson to be learned for them.
• 17:31
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: It only hurts us.
• 17:33
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But yeah, that's a very interesting concept
• 17:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Another thing that's coming to my mind, this is a tool that I teach a lot, in the work that I do with moms of teenagers, and I call it, your emotional remote control, right?
• 17:45
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So, and a lot of times moms will give it to their teens and it pr- i- in a metaphorical way.
• 17:51
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: "Don't push this button or I'll get mad.
• 17:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Don't push this button or I'm gonna be upset.
• 17:54
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Don't push this button or you'll hurt my feelings." And then of course the teenager pushes all the buttons, and then they're like,"Well, now I have to be mad," you know?
• 18:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so if you think about that in terms of a past offense that, somebody did something, whatever, I don't know, w- whatever example you wanna have, not forgiving that person is basically handing them the remote control and saying,"Keep pushing it.
• 18:17
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Push it today, push it tomorrow, push it the next day.
• 18:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: The thing that you did in the past, I'm gonna still give you the remote and allow you to push the button that creates these negative emotions for me." And why would you do that with someone who's not trustworthy and kind?
• 18:30
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah
• 18:32
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: the people that we give that control to often are the ones who we would least want to be driving our emotions because they haven't treated us kindly.
• 18:41
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So don't give your emotional remote control to them
• 18:44
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: is so true.
• 18:44
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yep, I love that because we've already determined that they are not someone that shares our value system, that they're not somebody that treats us with love and respect.
• 18:52
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And to give them the
• 18:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes
• 18:55
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: so please just go ahead and keep hurting me." what?
• 18:58
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Like, it doesn't make sense.
• 19:01
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah.
• 19:01
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And I think too, an empowering story to tell is instead of,"Well, I have to make sure that I never interact with that person again because otherwise they're gonna hurt me and they're gonna make me feel bad," what's more empowering is,"Okay.
• 19:15
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I mean, I can set some boundaries.
• 19:16
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I can figure out maybe I wanna limit, how much I'm choosing to interact with this person." Okay.
• 19:21
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But actually, you're resilient.
• 19:23
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: that's the forgiveness story is I am strong, I am resilient, I'm the one who creates my feelings, and so even if this other person is going to say or do things that don't match with my values, I'm not going to give them the steering wheel of my car.
• 19:38
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I hold onto that, and that's why I don't have to work so hard to protect myself.
• 19:42
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: If they come into the picture, it's like,"Oh, you're here.
• 19:46
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: All right.
• 19:46
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So am I." Yeah.
• 19:48
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So, uh, I, I'll see very often in my practice, people that seem to be really hung up on their ex.
• 19:53
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: even if they haven't been together for a really long time, they're really hung up on their ex and thinking,"Well, but they should have shown up differently," you know, all of the things that you've talked about.
• 20:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah
• 20:02
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: like one thing that I often remind them of is,"But can you see how you're still choosing to be in a relationship with them?
• 20:09
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you have not
• 20:10
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Ya.
• 20:11
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: maybe it's years now, but by replaying that in the present, you're choosing to maintain a relationship with them even though you don't like them." It's kinda wild, right?
• 20:23
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes.
• 20:24
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes, absolutely.
• 20:26
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, there's some amazing work that Dr.
• 20:28
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Luskin did as part of his research for forgiveness where they put medical devices on people, and they tracked their brainwaves and their cardiovascular, all these different things.
• 20:39
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'm not using the right scientific words, but, they tracked their vitals.
• 20:43
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And they had these people who were in the study, literally they sat there and they imagined not forgiving their offender, and then they had a different group that imagined forgiving their offender.
• 20:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And there were immediate changes in cardiovascular signals, um, and i- I mean, their, their vitals, their health signals went up when they imagined forgiving their offender.
• 21:09
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: He did, like, neurological and scientific medical research.
• 21:13
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That is
• 21:14
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So even just in the mind, the power of the mind on your physiology.
• 21:17
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so that's what's coming up for me when you say if somebody's dwelling on their ex, and you're like,"Okay, but why are you allowing that negativity from the past?" Like, it's taking something from you.
• 21:28
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's draining your energy.
• 21:29
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's draining your health.
• 21:30
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's causing stress.
• 21:31
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's creating hormones and cortisol and whatever in your body that steals from you
• 21:38
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Boy, that is so fascinating because, you know, we always talk about how the body keeps the score, but it's very interesting to look at it through the lens of forgiveness.
• 21:49
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: yeah, I'm giving them my life force energy holding onto this, and how is that impacting my body?
• 21:56
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That is so fascinating to hear that they've actually studied that, and that just having that imaginary experience, what a difference that can make.
• 22:03
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Which is pretty empowering, right?
• 22:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Because like you said, like maybe it's somebody who's passed on and you think,"No, I can't forgive them until I have closure." But that you can still experience that even just through imagination is amazing.
• 22:19
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 22:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so can you kind of feel the shift, right?
• 22:24
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's like the more we talk about this, the more you see this little toddler who's tired and you just wanna put your arms around him and say,"Let's go take a nap.
• 22:32
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's gonna feel so good." That's, that is what forgiveness is.
• 22:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's I actually don't think of it as something hard to do.
• 22:40
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think it takes intention.
• 22:41
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think it takes willingness.
• 22:42
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think it takes awareness.
• 22:44
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But I actually don't think that it's hard.
• 22:46
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think what's hard is living with the frustration and the anger day after day after day
• 22:52
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: so let's talk for just a brief moment.
• 22:53
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I know we kind of already hinted on it, but what are some of the reasons that it feels hard?
• 22:58
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And then I wanna hear what makes it so easy for you.
• 23:01
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So first, like, what are some of the reasons that you hear for why people are like,"No, no, no, no, no"?
• 23:10
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think that we as human beings, we really like to be right.
• 23:14
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so when we develop a grievance story, we're usually unaware.
• 23:19
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: We don't know that it's a story, first of all, we think it's a fact.
• 23:22
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And the more we say it, the more we complain it to our husband and we complain it to our friend, and then we, we, we prove by their validation of it that we're right.
• 23:30
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so I think it can be difficult to let go of a grievance story because then people feel like that means I was wrong.
• 23:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't see it that way, but I think that's one of the obstacles.
• 23:40
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's like, okay, we don't wanna be wrong.
• 23:43
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And we also don't wanna condone behavior that we feel is inappropriate.
• 23:48
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Again, I don't think that's what forgiveness is and I passionately believe that's not what it is.
• 23:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But I think that's one of the, the obstacles is that people say,"Well, so what?
• 23:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'm just supposed to be like,'Yeah, everything's hunky-dory no matter what you did.'" Um, and the answer is no, you don't have to do that.
• 24:03
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But I, I think wanting to be right, and I mean, it's related to our values, right?
• 24:08
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: if we condone something that isn't in line with our values, I think a lot of people are left feeling like,"No, I'm not going to do that.
• 24:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So the only way to hold onto my values is to hang onto the anger."
• 24:18
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah
• 24:19
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Which, is anger one of your values?
• 24:21
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Most people it's not.
• 24:23
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah.
• 24:24
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: like, if you actually really truly wanna stay aligned with your values, holding onto anger is not helping you
• 24:29
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: so true.
• 24:30
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Well, and it's interesting'cause you talk about like,"No, but I don't wanna condone their behavior, so I have to still stay mad." I think what's something that a lot of people forget about is that, you can forgive them and still be boundaried.
• 24:42
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you don't have to say,"Oh, everything's hunky-dory," and,"Sure, that was okay with me, and come and do it again." No, that's not forgiveness.
• 24:48
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That's being a doormat.
• 24:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But
• 24:51
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes
• 24:53
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you can forgive them and be boundaried
• 24:54
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and not condone behavior.
• 24:55
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But I think, I think it's too easy for some people to lump all of that together that, no, this is what forgiveness means.
• 25:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But it can be very helpful to just separate out those two things.
• 25:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 25:07
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: What I like to differentiate between, I believe in unconditional love, and that's something I choose for myself, right?
• 25:14
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I can love another person.
• 25:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I can choose to feel love for them even if like, like you're talking about somebody's ex-husband.
• 25:19
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's like, okay, if you've moved on, if you guys have gotten a divorce, if you're living a different life, you can choose to feel love for that person, for the relationship that you had, and love for them unconditionally.
• 25:34
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But that doesn't mean there's not conditions on your actions.
• 25:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't believe in unconditional love that says, and therefore you can do anything and I'll accept anything." No.
• 25:43
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Unconditional love is just the emotion, and then I do have conditions on my actions.
• 25:47
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's called boundaries, right?
• 25:49
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: If you do this, here's what I will do.
• 25:51
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: If you don't do this, here's what I will not do.
• 25:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: so there are conditions on our actions, but not on our, emotions.
• 25:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's, to me, that's a very helpful way of framing it so that I'm always in the driver's seat of how I feel.
• 26:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Then I get to be...
• 26:04
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And can you expand a bit?
• 26:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Because I think that's a really huge idea that don't want to rush through, idea of unconditional love.
• 26:17
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: with that forgiveness thing, it is easy to have that desire to withhold love until they meet a certain criteria.
• 26:24
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So can you kind of expand on that a little bit?
• 26:26
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: what does that look like to unconditionally love somebody that's harmed you?
• 26:32
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 26:34
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So here's the metaphor that I love to use to explain this.
• 26:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Imagine that you have a faucet that you can turn on and you can turn off, and when you turn it on the water flows and when you turn it off the water doesn't flow, okay?
• 26:47
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's conditional love.
• 26:49
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And what that does is it puts the other person in charge.
• 26:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So I talk about this with moms of teenagers as well, right?
• 26:54
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So if my teenager obeys me, then I turn the water on and I love you.
• 26:58
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But if you disobey me, I turn the water off.
• 27:00
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't love you.
• 27:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Okay.
• 27:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Well, then I only get to feel love, which is the best feeling, which is what I want to experience in my body, I only get to feel that if they obey?
• 27:09
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Hmm.
• 27:09
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Most teenagers are like,"I'm not gonna get to feel love that much," because they make a lot of choices, right?
• 27:14
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so actually that's a punishment to me.
• 27:17
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's a punishment to me because if I am adjusting how much love I feel based on their actions, then they get to decide my emotions.
• 27:26
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Again, emotional remote control, right?
• 27:28
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So imagine you've got this faucet and you're thinking,"Oh, I don't wanna have too much water because that could be dangerous, so I gotta keep it off if they do anything that I don't like." Meanwhile, you get to feel love 20% of the time, 30% of the time, and the rest of the time you've got some other emotion like resentment or hatred or frustration or anger.
• 27:45
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: On the other hand, the metaphor that I love for unconditional love is like a waterfall.
• 27:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's like, hey, we're not worried...
• 27:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: In a home, if you left the tap water on, like you'd have a flood.
• 27:55
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So like that makes sense that we would wanna keep the water off.
• 27:58
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But if you're in a totally different location, if you have a waterfall, we're not worried that that's too much water.
• 28:04
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: The water just flows.
• 28:05
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's just there.
• 28:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's just abundant and we don't have to turn it on and off.
• 28:10
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so in order to love someone without conditions who has hurt you, what that feels like is I choose love and peace and acceptance for the experience that I get to have as a human being and I take responsibility for how I feel and I take responsibility for how I respond in this relationship and I get to feel love and that's this waterfall.
• 28:31
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Because the alternative is,"Okay, I'm gonna turn it off.
• 28:35
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'm gonna turn it off.
• 28:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Oh, you did the thing again.
• 28:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'm turning it off.
• 28:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Okay, you said that.
• 28:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Okay, I'm turning it off." And then you just, you don't get to feel the love in your body and so it's a punishment to you.
• 28:47
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't know.
• 28:47
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Does that answer your question?
• 28:48
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah.
• 28:48
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah, that's very interesting.
• 28:49
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Thank you so much.
• 28:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And it has me kind of thinking a bit like about how to practice that love.
• 28:55
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: When you used the faucet example, it had me thinking,"Okay, so it's similar to the remote control.
• 28:59
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I'm going to allow you to control
• 29:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah
• 29:03
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: love."
• 29:05
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Mm-hmm.
• 29:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: but it also has me thinking about like, okay, there have been times in my life as I reflect back on it where, I don't know if you're familiar with Ho'oponopono.
• 29:13
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Are you familiar with that at all?
• 29:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: No
• 29:16
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: like a mantra that you can repeat to yourself, and they've also done studies on this to see how does it impact-- Uh, for example, they had some people that were sending Ho'oponopono to inmates or to people in the hospital and different things and watching the differences there.
• 29:29
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But basically, it's four thoughts that you're just kind of feeling into, and it's,"I'm sorry.
• 29:36
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: forgive me.
• 29:37
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love you.
• 29:38
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Thank you."
• 29:40
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Oh, I have, I have heard of this, and people doing it, like, at the bedside of their loved ones when they're passing away or things like that.
• 29:46
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: and sometimes when I've had a hard time,'cause I'm human, you guys.
• 29:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Sometimes when I've had a hard time loving somebody, I'll just kind of sit with that'cause It does kinda shake up the brain a bit, right?
• 29:56
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: When you're trying to think,"Okay, well, I'm sorry.
• 29:58
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Okay, well, what am I sorry for?
• 29:59
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I guess I'm sorry for being resentful.
• 30:01
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I guess I'm sorry it's taken me this long to forgive.
• 30:03
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I guess I'm sorry..." Like it's figuring out what's my piece to own.
• 30:07
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: then the please forgive me, and then I love you, and just feeling into that.
• 30:12
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But practicing, just like how you talked about those people practicing forgiveness.
• 30:18
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: it's good to have a little space to dedicate just practicing love.
• 30:23
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And you
• 30:23
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes
• 30:25
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Uh, you know, thinking about my children, yeah, kids make mistakes, and it's easier for me to love my children unconditionally than you know, my husband or that former friend or whoever it is.
• 30:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yep.
• 30:38
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: but thinking on, okay, but guess what?
• 30:39
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Like they still are a human every human deserves to be loved.
• 30:44
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I think that that's just something that we just all deserve is love.
• 30:47
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: It doesn't mean that we deserve to just go and do whatever we want.
• 30:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But practicing that love can be just a very beneficial practice, I think
• 30:57
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, and I love, I mean, what you're saying that everyone deserves to be loved, that is in opposition to the faucet, right?
• 31:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Because the faucet is I'm the one who determines whether someone deserves love or not, and so I'm going to turn it on if I think they've earned it, but I'm going to leave it off if I think they haven't.
• 31:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And I will tell you from experience, that is actually an exhausting way to be a human.
• 31:21
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Because then you constantly have to be monitoring everyone's behavior, and you have to be like,"Oh, on for you, off for you, on for you." And it's actually, the truth is there's 20,000 faucets because if you're turning it on and off for each person based on their behavior and based on whatever, and that takes a lot of energy.
• 31:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's actually much more freeing to say,"I'm going to choose love as often as I can for as many people as I can, and also make judgments according to my values," which is less exhausting
• 31:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love that.
• 31:52
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That yeah, that it really is less exhausting,'cause that is exhausting, right?
• 31:55
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: To have to think about, okay, well who deserves my love today and who doesn't?
• 31:58
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: it also has me thinking, I just keep going back to your toddler example of,"No, you took my toy, so we're not friends today." and it's that, it's still that immaturity, right?
• 32:08
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But also thinking on kids, I also think about how quick they are to forgive, where that kid that took their toy and they're like,"We're not friends today," then guess what?
• 32:16
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Then the friend shares their grapes with them at lunch, and then they're like,"Okay, we're friends again." And practicing that part as well.
• 32:25
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes.
• 32:26
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, I mean, so the other thing, I mean, you kinda mentioned like why I think of forgiveness as being easy, and you wanted to talk about that a little bit more.
• 32:33
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Here's another image that I find really useful.
• 32:35
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't know if you're into decluttering at all.
• 32:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I, I love it.
• 32:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think decluttering is amazing.
• 32:40
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It always feels so good, right, to get rid of junk and to not have things in your garage that you don't need or whatever.
• 32:46
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so I like to think of each grudge that we have has its own little box, and it's shaped a little differently and maybe it has a different color or whatever.
• 32:54
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But if you think about your mind as a room, all of the grudges, or call them a grievance story, whatever you prefer, I think grudge is kinda nice, all the grudges that you form, that you hang onto are a box that you put on a shelf, and it collects dust and it takes up space.
• 33:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And some grudges are huge, big, giant boxes, and some grudges are just teeny little, like a toothpaste box or something.
• 33:18
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's not that big, and so it's just like,"Oh, I'll just set that there.
• 33:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's gonna be fine." But they compound.
• 33:24
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And as you start to understand that and see how much energy and space it's draining from your life, it becomes much more desirable to just let it go in the first place.
• 33:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's like, you know what?
• 33:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Especially if you start doing this work and you really do say,"Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna grab a box today.
• 33:43
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'm gonna see what's in there, and I'm gonna let it go." Just like decluttering.
• 33:47
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: The more you declutter, the more you're like...
• 33:49
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And then you go shopping, you're like,"I'm not even buying that shirt because I know it's gonna end up in the Goodwill bin in six months because it doesn't fit right and I don't really love it," you know?
• 33:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so that's how it can start to become that way with grievances.
• 34:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I mean, even something like,"Ugh, this person was an hour late starting the meeting, and they wasted my time, and they should've been on time." And it's like I can notice that now and be like,"Oh, that's gonna end up in some box in my brain that I'm gonna have to sort through if I want that space back." Like, let's just let it go right now, okay?
• 34:19
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It was an hour late.
• 34:21
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And then that shelf never, you never even put the box there, right?
• 34:25
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Well, and it's so interesting to think about, all of these grievance boxes because I think that sometimes when you think about grievances, it's easier to see it in other people.
• 34:33
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: 'Cause like you said, we think that our experience is truth, it's not a story.
• 34:38
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: easier to see like,"Oh, wow, anytime I hang out with that person," like,"Yeah, and that person over there, they wronged me," and,"Ooh, and they're not very nice," and they're carrying it with them.
• 34:47
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And how much does that impact not only how you feel, but every experience that you have with other people?
• 34:53
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Because people feel that and they go,"Oh, that's kind of prickly," or,"Ooh, I wonder what they say about me." But it, it, it's just a very interesting idea, like that, that kind of flipped things a little bit for me when you shifted to talk about those grievances with forgiveness,'cause I think we all have grievances here and there.
• 35:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 35:13
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And to have grievances is to be human, right?
• 35:16
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so here's what I might say as a baby step, right?
• 35:19
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: If you're listening to this and you're like,"Okay, maybe I don't wanna be the toddler.
• 35:24
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Maybe I'm ready to start viewing forgiveness as a joy or as a possibility that's wonderful for me," you know?
• 35:30
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Or how as an adult, you eat vegetables'cause you want to'cause you know it fuels your body and it feels good and you're like,"I need more protein." But as a kid you're like,"No way.
• 35:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I just want candy." Anyway, if you're thinking,"Maybe I wanna dip my toe into this idea of forgiveness and see how joyful it can be," what I would recommend is start with the little things.
• 35:47
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Because the principles are the same.
• 35:49
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: to let go of a grievance story and write a new story is the same principle for, it rained when I wanted to go outside, uh, and I wish it hadn't rained.
• 35:59
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's the exact same thing if you let go of that.
• 36:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Same principle if we're talking about someone who has deeply wounded you or someone who mistreated your child or something that is gonna take more, um...
• 36:11
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You're gonna have to go deeper to be able to let go of that.
• 36:14
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But if you start with the small things and you start to notice how much space it frees up, then you can start to do it with harder and harder things
• 36:22
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah, so when it comes to letting go, I'm assuming that a big part of that is kind of rewriting your grievance story once you've identified it.
• 36:28
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So can you tell us, how do you rewrite these stories to make them something more supportive when you're just stuck in that narrative and keep ruminating on it?
• 36:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 36:38
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So really what it comes down to, as you identify the grievance story and you take ownership and you say,"Okay, I see how that's a story.
• 36:46
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I see how there's other ways I could choose to interpret it, but I've picked this one.
• 36:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Okay." And then as you start to notice, and, um, like I said, in, in my free workshop I, I walk through how to do that.
• 36:58
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and we use the CTFAR model, which I think you're, you probably teach as well.
• 37:02
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: but you notice,"Oh, when I think that, this is how I feel.
• 37:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I feel angry or I feel resentful," or whatever that is.
• 37:10
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: "And then when I feel that, here's how I show up, and then here's what this takes away from me." Once you can understand and see that your grievance story robs you of something, that's when you become motivated to write a new story.
• 37:21
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: 'Cause as, as long as you believe that it's protecting you or that it's good for you in your life, you're gonna hang onto it.
• 37:26
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Of course you are.
• 37:27
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Mm-hmm.
• 37:28
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Once you can open up the box, that's what I call it, you know, open up the box and start digging through there and be like,"Ooh, this is robbing my life.
• 37:35
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: This is draining my energy.
• 37:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: This is impacting my current relationships," then you become motivated to be like,"Okay, let's give this away.
• 37:43
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'm ready for something new." And so the process of rewriting your story is determining, how do I want to feel?
• 37:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: If I'm tired of feeling resentful, I'm tired of feeling powerless, I'm tired of feeling angry, whatever it is that your grievance story creates for you.
• 38:00
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: 'Cause you can keep feeling those negative emotions as long as you want to, right?
• 38:03
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But when we, can understand it, then when you decide,"Okay, I'm ready to feel something different," you decide on purpose,"I think I wanna feel peace now.
• 38:13
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think I'd like to feel love.
• 38:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think I'd like to feel empowered." Whatever feels most important to you, and then you write a story that creates that feeling for you.
• 38:23
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And I think of writing stories as trying on sweaters at a store.
• 38:27
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So if you want to feel, let's say, um, I don't know, give me an example of something that you think is a good grievance story that somebody might have, one of your listeners maybe
• 38:37
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: what comes up quite a bit.
• 38:38
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I don't know, let's just use the ex-husband example
• 38:41
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah
• 38:41
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: up quite a bit, is ex-husband shows up at the, um, kids' soccer game is flaunting new wife.
• 38:48
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I'm just so angry.
• 38:49
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: She shouldn't be here.
• 38:51
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 38:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 38:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Okay, excellent.
• 38:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So that's totally a grievance story.
• 38:55
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: She shouldn't be here.
• 38:56
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And then if you, were to unpack that and start writing it down, you're like,"How do I feel when I think that?" Well, I feel judgmental, critical, upset.
• 39:04
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And then how I show up is, I don't talk to them, or, I, I rush at the end.
• 39:08
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't want my kids to spend very much time with them after the game, and, you know, different things.
• 39:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And you might go,"Hmm, that's not really who I wanna be." And I'm ruining...
• 39:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I ruined the game for myself, you know?
• 39:17
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You would think, like, oh, her coming ruined the game.
• 39:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Like, no, I ruined the game because of this frustration that I was having, right?
• 39:24
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And maybe you have to do that 10 times before you're like,"I think I wanna do it differently." But if you're ready to do it differently, you could say,"Okay, the next time something like that happens, how do I wanna feel?" Well, I'm tired of being angry.
• 39:37
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'm tired of being critical.
• 39:39
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: She should be here because she wants to support her husband, and he has kids, and so she's coming.
• 39:45
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Of course she should be here, and she wants to love on these kids.
• 39:48
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I don't blame her.
• 39:49
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: These are amazing kids.
• 39:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I'd want them in my life, too, right?
• 39:52
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Like, so it just depends.
• 39:53
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But if you want to feel empowered, then you would say,"Whether or not he brings her, I'm gonna have a great time, and I'm gonna cheer my kids on because that's why I'm here, and I'm not gonna let something else take my focus." Um, that's just an example, right?
• 40:05
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so the, the story change is very connected to the emotion that you want to create.
• 40:13
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so when you really take ownership, my thoughts are what create my feelings, then it becomes exciting and fun to think about what story could I have about this event that would create the emotion I want to feel.
• 40:25
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And you try on a couple stories just like a sweater, and you go,"Ugh, I don't like that one." Next, you try on another one.
• 40:31
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Ah, too short.
• 40:32
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That doesn't create the emotion I want
• 40:34
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love that.
• 40:35
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Yeah, it kind of has me thinking about, sometimes we go through life with rose-colored glasses, right?
• 40:39
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Where every-- just kind of ignore all the negative.
• 40:41
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But this kinda has me thinking about, grievance goggles.
• 40:44
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: it's you got these blinders on, and we're so limited in what it is that we can see in that moment.
• 40:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So, I love that you talked about, okay, the first step is looking at the whole picture.
• 40:55
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: it feels so good and so validating to stay in that space, but is it actually creating for me?
• 41:02
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: How do I feel?
• 41:02
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: How is it impacting my relationships with other people?
• 41:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: How is it impacting how I just show up in life?
• 41:08
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: How much time and energy am I using just thinking about this story and replaying it in my mind?
• 41:14
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And, like, just kind of zooming out a little bit to see the whole picture.
• 41:18
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And then I love how you talked about, yeah, even if it's just practicing a few minutes a day, I'm gonna try that on, like you said, like a sweater.
• 41:24
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I'm gonna try on this one and see how that feels.
• 41:26
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: "Hmm, that one feels okay.
• 41:28
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Oh, okay, I'm gonna try on something else.
• 41:30
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Okay, this one fits a little bit better," you gotta find the right size.
• 41:33
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you're not gonna get the exact shoes that you want if you only try on one pair.
• 41:37
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you have to try on a few and see, okay, how does the toe box feel?
• 41:40
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: What do I think of this heel?
• 41:42
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Like, you gotta try a
• 41:43
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yes
• 41:44
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: But I love that, like just zooming out a little bit to see the whole picture, and then being willing to challenge a thought.
• 41:52
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: and like you said, picking on purpose, how do I want to feel?
• 41:56
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: know what?
• 41:56
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I would just love it if I could just go to my kid's soccer game and just enjoy it, and not be telling myself stories, but just cheer him on.
• 42:03
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Boy, that would be great.
• 42:03
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That's how I wanna feel, right?
• 42:05
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And then, okay, and then how can I create that?
• 42:07
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So yeah, I love that, getting really specific and clear on that.
• 42:12
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah, and I think a good guideline as you're trying on interpretations that you want to, try out is if you can have a feeling of love for everybody else in the story and for yourself, that's usually the fit.
• 42:27
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So sometimes we'll find stories where, we accommodate somebody else or we're like,"Oh, okay," like,"It's fine," but that we're not making any room for ourselves and we're not feeling love for ourselves.
• 42:36
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Or we're like,"Well, here are my needs and this is what I think is okay and everybody else is wrong," and that's not gonna feel good either because that's not love for everyone else in the story.
• 42:46
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so that's just something that I think is useful to aim for.
• 42:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and again, you don't have to.
• 42:51
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You can carry around as much anger and resentment and hatred as you care to, as much as you want.
• 42:57
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: But once you start to see what a gift it is to yourself to let it go, it becomes easier and easier every time
• 43:04
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love that.
• 43:04
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love that you are kind of wrapping this up around, also extending that love to yourself, So yes, extend the love to other people, but it's when we also extend that love to ourself, like we can set boundaries through love.
• 43:18
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And if you really love yourself, yes, you can still do things to keep yourself safe, to live a life that aligns with your values, You can even lovingly say,"You know what?
• 43:26
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I think it's best if you're just not a part of my life right now." And you can do that with love even.
• 43:32
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: you can set boundaries through love, but loving others and practicing loving self, I just love that.
• 43:39
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I was just gonna say as far as practicing forgiveness, there's these teeny little grievance stories.
• 43:45
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: When you see those come up, you can say,"Oh, I'm forming a grievance story.
• 43:48
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I think I'm ready to let this one go.
• 43:50
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: This is small." And also, if you're having trouble forgiving other people, starting with yourself might be the best place to begin, right?
• 43:57
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: 'cause Deep down you know you want to love yourself.
• 44:01
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: You may not wanna love your ex-husband, but you do wanna love yourself, right?
• 44:04
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so that can be a beautiful place to say,"I've made mistakes.
• 44:08
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: I've done things that don't align with who I wanna be, but yet I choose love for myself anyway." and the more often you do that for yourself, it'll start to spill over
• 44:18
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love that.
• 44:18
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That was just so beautiful.
• 44:20
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: thank you so much for having this conversation.
• 44:22
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And I just wanna ask, if there was one main takeaway wanted the listeners to just really take to heart today, what would it be?
• 44:32
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Forgiveness is a gift that you can receive, you can give to yourself and receive for yourself.
• 44:39
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It's not a punishment, it's not a should, it's not a vegetable, it's not a nap.
• 44:44
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: It is absolutely a, a beautiful gift that you can give to yourself, and I hope you do
• 44:50
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I love that.
• 44:51
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Thank you so much, Emily.
• 44:52
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: And also, if people wanna connect with you, how can they find you?
• 44:56
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: I'm gonna put everything in the show notes, but you tell them here too.
• 45:00
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Yeah.
• 45:00
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: So I have a podcast, it's called Parenting Teens for LDS Moms.
• 45:03
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: If you, if that's something of interest to you, you can listen to the podcast.
• 45:06
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: That's most of the coaching that I do at this point.
• 45:08
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: and also the free forgiveness workshop is kind of a separate arm, so that's not necessarily related to being a parent of teenagers.
• 45:15
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: And so if you wanna check out that workshop and learn how to do it, you can learn it on your own or I can guide you through it.
• 45:20
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: that's a great place to find me as well.
• 45:21
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Thank you so much, and I will also be linking the book that you mentioned in the beginning, Forgive for Good.
• 45:27
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: So I'll be linking that in the show notes as well.
• 45:29
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: so yeah, go and give her a like and go give her a follow and yeah, check out that forgiveness stuff.
• 45:34
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: That sounds amazing.
• 45:36
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Awesome.
• 45:36
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Well, thank you so much for being here.
• 45:39
  emily-ricks_1_10-21-2026_150912: Thanks for having me.
• 45:39
  maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10-21-2026_150847: Bye now.