Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Be calm, be confident, and be bold in the truth! A holy week interview with Rev John Naugle

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Be calm, be confident, and be bold in the truth! A holy week interview with Rev John Naugle · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:08
  We've learned anything from these past couple of years, my fellow Americans is that personal medical freedom and liberty are in crisis.
• 0:19
  American Ram Pulse brings together the top experts in health care related fields to keep you upbeaten ahead.
• 0:29
  Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the America Out Loud Pulse program on the America Out Loud Radio Network, Liberty and Justice for All.
• 0:38
  This is Dr.
• 0:39
  Clayton J.
• 0:40
  Baker, MD.
• 0:42
  Today I'm very excited to have a dear friend and special guest on the program today.
• 0:52
  Father John Noggle.
• 0:53
  Father Nogg is parochial vicar of St.
• 0:56
  Augustine's Parish in Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania, in the Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
• 1:05
  Father Noggle's a good friend of mine, and I like to think of him, I'm sure I'm not the only one as the unofficial chaplain of Brownstone Institute.
• 1:15
  Many of you know that I write frequently for Brownstone Institute.
• 1:18
  So does Father Noggle, and I encourage you to look up some of his work on Brownstone Journal.
• 1:26
  There's a large number of really great thoughtful articles that he's written since the early days of COVID.
• 1:34
  Father Noggle was one of the rare priests who worked tirelessly during the COVID lockdowns from the very early days to provide continuous religious observance, provide the mass and the Eucharist to his parishioners.
• 1:48
  He was very courageous and quite outspoken about the need for this and the terrible wrongs of limiting worship or stopping worship during COVID lockdowns.
• 2:01
  As I mentioned, he writes frequently for Brownstone, and he's a trusted counsel to myself and to many others in the COVID resistance movement and what that has evolved into as the COVID era itself seems to recede into the distance.
• 2:19
  However, the threats that we see to our individual liberties and to our way of life and to our health persist and in some ways even increase.
• 2:32
  So it's my honor to have Father Noggle here, particularly on Holy Week, because I know that's one of the busiest times of the year for a Catholic priest, but he we were able to carve out a little time today in his busy schedule, and I'm very grateful to you for that.
• 2:52
  Welcome, Father Noggle.
• 2:54
  It's wonderful to be with you, Clayton, and with your listeners.
• 2:58
  Thank you so much.
• 2:59
  So let me set the scene, and I want to get your thoughts.
• 3:03
  I want to get your counsel for myself and for all of my listeners.
• 3:08
  You know, we've been through since early 2020, the COVID era.
• 3:13
  So the tremendous worldwide abuse of frankly, most of the world's population, the lockdowns, the coerced vaccinations, the fear-mongering, the systematic lying, and the subsequent stripping of basic human liberties.
• 3:31
  It's just been unprecedented, certainly in my life, and I don't know exactly what the exact precedent for that would be if there is one in recorded human history.
• 3:43
  And now we're in 2026, and in 2025, if you're someone who is interested in sort of uh, I guess the term I would use is a reversal or some accounting of what happened during the COVID years.
• 4:00
  There was some positive developments, I could argue, at least in the United States, and I think worldwide regarding that in 2025.
• 4:09
  But now we're in 2026, and again, things seem quite dark to me.
• 4:13
  We're embroiled in a war, uh, another war, a war of choice by the United States, clearly an unconstitutional war, because the Constitution absolutely requires that going to war be authorized by the Congress, which this one was not.
• 4:36
  And now we see a situation where the world economy is on the precipice.
• 4:43
  We see a high likelihood that United States soldiers are going to be sent into the meat grinder.
• 4:50
  And that's just in the context of, as many of my listeners know that there are other affronts that have continued in the wake of COVID.
• 5:01
  I'm very active speaking out against geoengineering, which is another assault on nature, assault on human liberty on human health.
• 5:10
  So with that very ominous uh introduction, I I want to know from you, what can you tell someone, whether they are a Catholic or not, whether they are a believer or not, but within the context of your work, how does someone continue to have hope and faith and love in an era like this.
• 5:43
  Well, you know, my first public words, um, only viewable by my friends on Facebook at the time when lockdowns began was uh a sarcastic comment, congrats, we've collapsed civilization.
• 5:57
  And I don't think we think clearly enough about that word civilization, because we have civilization because we have been civilized.
• 6:13
  It's a reminder that uh our base state, at least under the influence of sin, is not peace and prosperity, but rather it's it's barbarism.
• 6:25
  And even before Christianity, order was imposed as if from outside.
• 6:33
  So, you know, initially the Greeks, and then later the Romans, is that there was a forceful assertion of an order.
• 6:41
  And this is why, you know, if we're having a fight, we we don't kill each other.
• 6:45
  If I want your stuff, I just don't go in by force and take it because there's been this imposed order.
• 6:52
  And while the history of civilization being chipped at more and more, I would argue is at least 500 years in the making.
• 7:04
  I I don't think there's ever been a period of time before 2020 where things developed so rapidly that the very rules which we used to exist with each other were just completely changed and suspended.
• 7:19
  And even worse, a significant part of the population was brainwashed enough to the point where they acted as if it's always been this way.
• 7:28
  And you know, I don't think it's uh it's uh coincidence that our cities in this very time have become less and less safe.
• 7:37
  They become as Rome was when it was overrun by the barbarians.
• 7:43
  We live in a time where the order we were given, and reminder, Western civilization all descends from Christendom.
• 7:52
  It was the church, and then later it was competing Christian religions, but there still was this sense that we have an order that we inherit and that we pass on to our children, and that we mess around with that basically at our peril, right?
• 8:09
  It seems that we now live in this era where we are reinventing the temptation of the serpent in the garden.
• 8:17
  We're reinventing, well, we don't have to die.
• 8:22
  We can be peaceful and prosperity on our own terms, but instead of on basing all of this on God's law, it's now the will of our elites.
• 8:33
  Who what's terrifying is not all of them are even in a for-profit, but some of them is just raw power.
• 8:41
  And it just seems like we're in this late stage where everyone is trying to cash out now because they know that there's no stability moving forward, and that when the musical chairs ends, whoever has a seat has a seat, and whoever doesn't doesn't.
• 9:03
  The fact that so many of our politicians, including the U.S.
• 9:06
  Senate, are just so bloodthirsty.
• 9:10
  They yearn for death.
• 9:12
  I I just see it, and I've been preaching to our people that you know we really need to enter into this holy week as if maybe it was our only holy week.
• 9:23
  And also cognizant of the fact that none of us are guaranteed a holy week after.
• 9:28
  That that was a miraculous time when hatred and death were transformed into life and love.
• 9:38
  Because that's really the center of the Christian religion, right?
• 9:41
  Confronted with the most hateful and murderous of human tendencies, that out of that comes salvation, life, love, conversion of heart, and I would argue, civilization itself.
• 9:58
  So, yes, we live in dark times.
• 10:00
  But dark times have been transformed.
• 10:03
  Rome fell once.
• 10:04
  Christianity reclaimed it.
• 10:07
  And I don't see a path forward except for the path through which our civilization was built, namely, you know, the spread of the gospel.
• 10:16
  Very well.
• 10:17
  So you had mentioned a couple of things here that stand out in my mind.
• 10:22
  One is this concept of a civilizational or sort of a rejection, if you will, by many people, particularly people in power, what a lot of people call the Epstein class, what others call the elites.
• 10:40
  I don't call them the elites anymore because I don't see anything elite about them at all.
• 10:46
  Um I prefer the Epstein class, which uh a lot of people have picked up, but even that probably is is that uh describing people at more of an operational level than the folks at the really at the top.
• 10:59
  But I I guess whatever terminology you want to use, we're dealing with a group of individuals, probably a fairly small group with a tremendous amount of wealth and a tremendous amount of influence behind the scenes that are pulling strings and manipulating circumstances in a way that is perhaps not new, but seems to have been accelerated and increased at a level to where more and more people are aware of it and are deeply disturbed by it.
• 11:31
  And you know, that is perhaps a source of the angst for for many of us, myself included, who maybe just wasn't aware of things prior to COVID to anywhere near the extent that I am now.
• 11:46
  Once you become aware of this sort of extreme wickedness in the world, what does what does Christ say?
• 11:57
  What does the Christian religion tell us that we have to do to cope with that, to find a way to order our lives and obviously resist this, obviously succumbing and getting being part of it is not an option.
• 12:12
  So what does what do Christ and what do the greatest of Christian thinkers say that you do in such times?
• 12:23
  I'd say first, it's important to remember that this dynamic has always been there, that sort of the bad people rise to power and they do whatever's necessary to maintain that power.
• 12:34
  Uh, we just read in uh the gospel uh yesterday, I think it was about how uh Jesus' enemies, the religious leaders in Jerusalem, were plotting even to kill Lazarus, whom he had brought back from the dead.
• 12:50
  Because this miracle of life over death was awful to them because it was a threat to their authority.
• 12:58
  That's really dark when you think about it, right?
• 13:00
  You know, we need to put this guy back in the tomb because our power matters so much.
• 13:06
  I do think we live in an era that where technology has become a two-edged sword, right?
• 13:11
  It's enabled them to be more effective.
• 13:15
  You know, now you can have an international conspiracy, and it's easy because of plane travel to meet in person, and uh it's also even easier to be in constant communication.
• 13:27
  On the other side, it's it's meant that every move of theirs, it becomes harder and harder to conceal, right?
• 13:35
  So, you know, on the positive side, we are getting more and more uh evidence of what this network looks like, at least from the emails that are being released from Epstein's email account.
• 13:47
  So, you know, we really live in this strange, strange time where they are more dangerous but also more exposed.
• 13:55
  And maybe that's what's leading us there.
• 13:57
  I think the most important thing for a Christian is to remember that we are truth tellers, right?
• 14:06
  Because one of the ways they manipulate us is that they convince us that it's safer to be silent, it's safer to measure our language, it's safer to conform to the narrative, and that has never been the Christian way.
• 14:24
  You know, uh in the early church, not getting yourself martyred if you were brought before the court was considered an act of apostasy.
• 14:34
  You couldn't pretend to worship the emperor.
• 14:37
  That was apostasy.
• 14:38
  You couldn't bribe them for a certificate.
• 14:42
  That was apostasy.
• 14:43
  You had to tell the truth because martyrdom is witness.
• 14:47
  And so if you refuse to martyr, you refuse to witness, and if we believe that the Lord is the word, that means that refusing to speak the word is an offense directly against him.
• 14:58
  And you know, to speak that truth, but also to speak it in love, is the primary toll we have.
• 15:06
  And there's nothing more terrifying to an elite in power than someone who can't be bribed or threatened.
• 15:12
  And we need a critical mass of that.
• 15:13
  We need to support each other in community.
• 15:17
  Very well.
• 15:18
  Yeah, I think that going back to the stories of the early Christians is helpful for those of us in the Christian dispensation because it just the boldness, you know, the the the if you read I've recently been reading the Acts of the Apostles, and you know, the the one of the phrases that just keeps being told recited over and over again that Luke says, the author of the Acts, right?
• 15:50
  St.
• 15:50
  Luke is there in individuals full of the Holy Spirit.
• 15:55
  Right.
• 15:56
  Meaning, to me, that means what it means, literally, but but if you were there seeing it, it might be that person proclaiming loudly and fearlessly and truthfully what they see to be the case, regardless of the consequences.
• 16:14
  And uh so, yeah, I think that that's something that we have to realize.
• 16:19
  And as you said, I think something I've come to this conclusion that it's perhaps counterintuitive or uh the notion that this isn't there's really nothing new under the sun, that this is our time uh to be in the lion's den, I guess.
• 16:41
  And I encourage you and your good your your listeners, just Google the skull of St.
• 16:45
  Agnes.
• 16:45
  She's one of my favorite saints.
• 16:47
  Her skull is preserved in a side altar in room.
• 16:50
  She was 13 when she was martyred.
• 16:52
  And when you see, because people ate differently, they were far tinier back then, when you just see how tiny that skull is and realize this teenage girl said my spouse is Christ, and nothing in this world can allure me.
• 17:06
  It's challenging to us who are grown adults who are closer to death than birth, and we sometimes can't even manage to speak simple truths, but this tiny this tiny skull of this little girl face martyrdom with such bravery.
• 17:20
  Really, yeah.
• 17:21
  I will check, I will look at look that up with with interest.
• 17:25
  Um it's funny what also creates interest in a person that's Agnes is my grandmother's name.
• 17:30
  So uh it gives I will it's funny what's what uh sometimes motivates someone to follow through on a suggestion, but it sounds like uh one well worth worth uh worth pursuing.
• 17:42
  Um we're gonna go to break right now, and we're gonna be back in just a minute, and we're gonna pick up on this, and I'm gonna ask Father John to continue where we've been going and also to think about how do we find the courage in times like these to speak the truth, to speak out when not only is there tremendous pressure and risk to do so, but when everyone around you, it seems is staying silent.
• 18:12
  So we'll be back in a few moments.
• 18:13
  This is Dr.
• 18:14
  Clayton J.
• 18:14
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• 20:23
  Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
• 20:25
  This is Dr.
• 20:25
  Clayton J.
• 20:26
  Baker, MD on the America Out Loud Pulse program on the America Out Loud Radio Network, Liberty and Justice for all.
• 20:36
  Again, I'm back with my dear friend and very respected priest, Father John Noggle, parochial vicar of St.
• 20:48
  Augustine Parish in Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania, and one of the few priests who spoke out and did everything in his power during COVID to continue to bring worship and the Mass and the Eucharist to his parishioners during COVID, a frequent contributor to Brownstone Journal as I am.
• 21:12
  And as I said before, the unofficial vicar, I guess, but certainly um unofficial chaplain of Brownstone Institute.
• 21:22
  And in the last segment, Father John, we were talking about speaking out, and you gave the example of the early Christians and how it was de rigueur for them.
• 21:35
  It was necessary for them to be brave, to be courageous, even at risk of death, even at risk of severe punishment, that it was apostasy to stay silent.
• 21:48
  And in this day and age, when we see so much terrible, terrible action going on from people in power.
• 21:58
  If you're a Christian, if you're a Catholic Christian, if you're simply, as you described it, a civilized human being.
• 22:06
  What do you say to people about developing the courage to speak out, to speak truth?
• 22:14
  As you said, there's nothing that terrifies a tyrant more than a person who cannot be shut up, who cannot be silenced, who cannot be bought.
• 22:23
  How does one act in that manner if their tendency, if perhaps their past behavior has been to keep their head down?
• 22:35
  Well, I uh I think that uh you need to focus on the simple question.
• 22:41
  What and whom do you love?
• 22:44
  Right.
• 22:46
  So for the believer, love of God is supposed to be heart, mind, and soul, right?
• 22:51
  Not a single part of us is exempted.
• 22:53
  But we're also, you know, taught to love our neighbor as ourself.
• 22:57
  And that begins with those who are most in our sphere of influence, right?
• 23:04
  One of the ways we are so easily seduced is we love something that's just short of that, right?
• 23:10
  And for a lot of us, it's I love my prestige, I love my good name.
• 23:17
  I love my access to you know, the table of polite, acceptable groups.
• 23:25
  I want my seat at the table.
• 23:29
  That's actually a very hateful thing to do because, for example, if you have children, do you want them to be in a world that's full of truth and love?
• 23:42
  Or do you want them to be in a world that's governed by lies and violence?
• 23:49
  We bring into the world either truth and love or lies and violence.
• 23:54
  And so when we focus on what do we really love, then we realize that fitting in with bad people is a really silly thing to want, right?
• 24:03
  And I often use this in my preaching.
• 24:05
  We're built to fit in.
• 24:07
  We but we can pick where we want to fit in, right?
• 24:10
  So if we look up in heaven and we see all the martyrs and the saints and angels and say, that's the social group I want to be in.
• 24:17
  And therefore, the opinion of people who don't want to be there doesn't seem to matter to me anymore.
• 24:23
  I I get a certain freedom from that, right?
• 24:27
  That there's nothing they can do to me, and once again, even to the point of death that can free me from wanting to belong there, and even more, all these people are watching me, including those younger, my children, my grandchildren, my godchildren, all these people that look up to me.
• 24:44
  And if they see me not live a life of love and truth, then I'm harming them.
• 24:52
  You know, when we summon that motive and within us, we can do crazy heroic things, right?
• 24:58
  We hear these stories of the mom who's who's suddenly filled with superhuman strength based on adrenaline to pull the car off of her child, right?
• 25:07
  That can happen in us, but only when we've actually gone down the path of being clear about what and who we love.
• 25:17
  And all too often society numbs us so that we're not actually full of love at all.
• 25:22
  We just become kind of these selfish little wind-up toys that bounce around from one thing to the next.
• 25:32
  So the question is really, who do you really love?
• 25:37
  Who are you really here to serve?
• 25:40
  And you know, you brought up a really interesting question, a really difficult question for me, because being a father, there is nothing, and I can speak for I think many, many parents.
• 25:56
  I can certainly speak for my wife as well.
• 25:59
  There is nothing that's more important to me than my children.
• 26:04
  I don't have grandchildren yet.
• 26:05
  I hope to someday, although I bristle sometimes to think about the world they're going to be brought into, but I am hardly the first person in history to feel that way, I'm sure.
• 26:16
  And but anyway, I there's nothing that matters more to me right now than my children.
• 26:24
  You know, I grew up until COVID, kind of blissfully unaware to a large extent of how wicked the world is.
• 26:34
  And uh, you know, until you really get uh you had a plan for life, and uh, as Mike Tyson says, everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
• 26:46
  And uh COVID punched me and a lot of people right in the face.
• 26:51
  And so when that happens, you say to yourself, how do I structure what I do so that I not only equip myself well, that's important.
• 27:05
  You want to grow your own soul, you want to not be unable to face your maker when the time comes, but also having this tremendous sense of responsibility or sense of concern for the next generation, and not only your own progeny, but the generation that is theirs.
• 27:27
  And it causes a great degree of distress for I think many people nowadays.
• 27:33
  What are your thoughts on that?
• 27:35
  What are your thoughts on how to not only be true to yourself, but to really look to try and serve and try and help future generations in times like these.
• 29:34
  Love is an openness to feeling the pain of what's happened, and also an openness to feeling an anger that yes is purified.
• 29:46
  It can't be a vengeful type of anger, but to feel that of like, no, I want I want to protect and provide, and I want these harms to be addressed.
• 29:59
  And
• 30:00
  Once again, society numbs us so much that we don't let ourselves feel that.
• 30:06
  And I think that's just why people stay paralyzed and inert, even as they're watching people around them harmed.
• 30:14
  Yeah, it's really uh it's really um terrifying to me.
• 30:19
  And and again, and I don't I honestly do my very best not to pass judgment upon others because you know, I know through having become sort of a prof semi-professional dissident now for I fear for the rest of my life, uh, since COVID, um that you know, there were a number of people that were aware of what was going on prior to COVID that I was less aware of these things.
• 30:48
  And so I'm a bit late to the game compared to some.
• 30:53
  But now I'm seeing in some ways just an acceleration of the wickedness that was really um set loose upon the world during COVID in so many different ways.
• 31:06
  And I will tell you, it's it's amazing to me how long it takes me to really become upset and outraged about what's going on.
• 31:16
  And and and I don't want to be, you know, outraged all the time.
• 31:20
  I don't want to be professionally um angry.
• 31:24
  But for example, it was since COVID that you know the terrible injustice that's that's going on in um with the war between Russia and the Ukraine uh persists.
• 31:40
  And of course, that was something that I personally was aware of and was did not support.
• 31:47
  However, my sense of outrage over what's going on now against Iran is at a different level, and it's partly because I feel that it's my country directly doing it rather than indirectly doing it.
• 32:01
  And I also have just a heightened level of awareness of what's taking place.
• 32:07
  So what I'm trying to say, I suppose, is that it's not that I feel like I know what's going on and everybody else doesn't.
• 32:14
  But we're seem to be, that being said, we're seem to be surrounded by a tremendous number of people who for whatever reason kind of remain asleep.
• 32:26
  And when you have been through COVID and you've again been punched in the face, how you can how do people still remain asleep and is there anything we can do to awaken them?
• 32:42
  We can provide the conditions that might help them wake up.
• 32:48
  I think that's one of the things that we sometimes get too focused on is trying to fix or correct people.
• 32:56
  People have their reasons, their sins, their insecurities that keep them blinded.
• 33:04
  And we who are believe that we're working for the truth, think that the truth itself is what shakes people.
• 33:12
  Often it's only when harm comes to them or something shatters their stony hearts that they begin to realize, you know, just how bad things were.
• 33:24
  Which is why I emphasize that the anger should be purified by love and also a confidence that evil always overplays its hand.
• 33:34
  Because you need virtue to accomplish what they want.
• 33:40
  And because they don't have certain virtues, they will always eventually lapse into a sort of imprudence where they overplay their hand, and they'll you know, tick off just enough people where there's where there's a uh a response.
• 33:59
  We we've seen this in some elections, right?
• 34:01
  It almost seems like we get an over-response every time now because you know the uniparty is doing its uniparty things regardless of the outcome, which leads to a potential danger in the future.
• 34:16
  To simply be calm, confident, and bold in the truth, and some people will join, others won't.
• 34:26
  But in the sense that happy indifference to the individuals who might take longer or maybe not at all, is an additional proof of the truth we're talking about, right?
• 34:38
  Because we serve the truth, we don't serve our ego in this given place.
• 34:42
  Say that again, the start of that sentence.
• 34:44
  I missed, I didn't quite catch it.
• 34:47
  Um I don't remember where I started because it was a bit of run-on sentence in my head up.
• 34:52
  You know, we believe in the truth.
• 34:54
  Some will some will be convinced in the short term, some in the long term, some not at all.
• 34:59
  But our happy indifference to the individual as to when or where is actually an argument in favor of the truth itself.
• 35:09
  A happy indifference to when people convert.
• 35:14
  Right.
• 35:15
  Think of the missionaries who showed up, and all they all that happened for them was they got killed.
• 35:20
  But then the second or third wave that replaced them.
• 35:23
  They they were successful.
• 35:25
  Well, that doesn't mean the first wave was unsuccessful.
• 35:28
  The first wave set the stage for how true this message must be, right?
• 35:33
  Is that these people keep coming up, coming back no matter how many times we off them?
• 35:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:41
  What about, and I think, you know, I'm again, it's it's very valuable to talk to someone who is by profession, by vocation close to God, uh, such as yourself, that you know, I'm focused, I find many times on what's going on on this planet right now.
• 36:04
  And I'm focused on things that I may be able to move the needle a little bit on, and I'm competing with that is trying to keep body and soul together and family together and all that stuff.
• 36:23
  But trying to square that with what is sort of beyond this life, what is beyond this these times.
• 36:34
  How do you balance that?
• 36:36
  Or is there, should there be a balance there?
• 36:39
  Well, we know neither the day nor the hour, right?
• 36:42
  So we just work hard in the moment like it all counts on us, trust on God's grace as if it all counts on him, and we press forward.
• 36:53
  Uh we do know that there will be a final test and a final trial.
• 36:59
  We don't know if we live in that or not.
• 37:02
  I often make the argument that every generation kind of has its own dress rehearsal as uh a way to convince us how unready we are.
• 37:12
  So, for example, the World War II generation got a real taste of what dystopian humanity left to its own devices.
• 37:22
  Then the Cold War generation had a real taste about what dystopian human uh tyranny looks like when we're left to our own devices.
• 37:32
  And certainly in 2020, we had our taste of what happens when we're left to our own devices.
• 37:39
  Uh I honestly think that it's just a mercy of God that we're not put to the actual test, but given these, given these dress rehearsals in the hope that maybe just maybe people will return to not a vapid hope in mere human reason, because we see how the enlightenment was unsatisfying, right?
• 37:58
  Not a mere hope and human will.
• 38:01
  We see how dangerous postmodernism has been, that it's all will, you know, I can be a boy even though I'm a girl, or vice versa.
• 38:11
  Really, it all comes down to are we going to accept the plan that God has for us?
• 38:16
  And I'm just convinced that he gives us these periods of time uh in the hopes of maybe we'll wake up, maybe there'll be a revival.
• 38:24
  And I can tell you, at least in the short term, it's a little blip, statistical blip.
• 38:28
  But Catholic churches are seeing a uh uh an increased interest in religion.
• 38:34
  Given how spont spectacularly we largely failed in 2020.
• 38:39
  I find that even more interesting because people are seeking out the faith and not us loser clergy who are in charge of running the thing in the meantime.
• 38:47
  Got it.
• 38:47
  So I need to go to break.
• 38:49
  I'm gonna come back and we're gonna talk about that.
• 38:51
  We're gonna talk about a resurgence of religion that seems to be happening and how we can hopefully use that to the benefit of civilization, as you say.
• 39:04
  This is Dr.
• 39:04
  Clayton J.
• 39:05
  Baker MD on the America Out Loud Pulse program on the American Out Loud Radio Network, Liberty and Justice for all.
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• 40:54
  Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
• 40:56
  This is Dr.
• 40:56
  Clayton J.
• 40:57
  Paker and D, Young America Out Loud Radio Network.
• 41:01
  This is the America Outloud Pulse program.
• 41:05
  In this final segment, I'm going to be joined once again by Father John Naugle, parochial vicar of St.
• 41:12
  Augustine Parish, Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania in the Diocese of Pittsburgh, a dear friend, a trusted council of mine and of Brownstone Institute.
• 41:22
  And in the last segment, Father John, you had touched on the, and you're not the only one to have mentioned it incidentally, the religious resurgence that we have seen not only in the United States, but I believe worldwide, in the wake of the COVID atrocities.
• 41:43
  And I would like to have you continue to give your thoughts on that.
• 41:48
  Why is it happening?
• 41:50
  Why is it important if you feel it is important?
• 41:53
  And how can we use that to seek justice in this troubled world?
• 42:01
  It's a really interesting phenomenon.
• 42:03
  I don't think I can give an easy answer to the question of why.
• 42:09
  Aside from the fact that it seems as though there are a lot of people waking up to the fact that the status quo of where we are in this decline of civilization doesn't have the set of tools and answers within itself to pull us out of this.
• 42:28
  That there's a sense that we do have to return to the wisdom of our ancestors, to something that is immutable, something that is a known truth.
• 42:56
  And since we are a church that's two thousand years old or so, um, there's this sense that we are the stable influence that can maybe give order to life.
• 43:10
  And it's coming through a lot of different ways.
• 43:12
  So, for example, you know, you have the kind of weak Catholic spouse that's married to a non-Catholic, but they send the their kids to our school because they want to escape the public school, and then all of a sudden the kids are convincing the non-Catholic spouse to enter the church, and they dream, they they drag the weak Catholic back along with them into something a little bit more fervent.
• 43:38
  So the stories that we're seeing, they're they're they're very spontaneous and indirect, rather than the sort of, you know, well, here's a great book I read it once, and now I'm fully on board.
• 43:51
  Um I can't tell you the number of marriages I've had to fix up or uh people coming for other various needs on the journey back.
• 44:00
  It's just it's been a very different time this last year or two.
• 44:04
  And uh it's certainly keeping us busy.
• 44:06
  Uh, but it's it I often say uh every coming to faith should be seen as a grace and a miracle.
• 44:14
  And this is the situation we've been put in, and we just show up and and try to do what God's asking us to do in the moment.
• 44:22
  Every coming to faith is a blessing and a miracle.
• 44:29
  There's ultimately faith's a theological virtue.
• 44:31
  It's a gift that only God can give.
• 44:35
  Faith is a gift only God can give.
• 44:40
  So with that in mind, you know, and we're seeing this, you know, I'm a Catholic Christian like yourself, but but I've read articles that this is happening in other faiths as well, that this is something where people are returning to belief in God, to faith in God.
• 45:00
  And I don't think, and based on your description of what you see, and you're you're kind of at the ground floor of this because you have people coming back and asking you questions and so on.
• 45:13
  It doesn't seem to me that it's out of uh sort of a last gasp or you know, this is the last chance saloon.
• 45:19
  It's more that as you said, there's there's an inadequacy, it seems, which should be clear to everybody, um, that there is a total inadequacy to a technocratic soulless world.
• 45:36
  And I think that the closer we get to these things, the more people, at least at some level, tend to reject them.
• 45:47
  I know that, for example, with my kids and with friends of theirs, that I see that they're they're a lot of them are turning away from their phones.
• 45:57
  A lot of them are turning away from the technology, they're they're self-limiting, uh, they're deleting apps, they're spending less time on social media, they're um trying to do a lot.
• 46:10
  A lot of them I'm seeing are going back to sort of more antiquated technology if they're using technology.
• 46:17
  So if they're listening to music, they want to listen to compact discs or even records rather than listen to streaming stuff.
• 46:26
  And I don't just read the phonograph uh records, phonographs went up in sales for the first time since the introduction of the cassette.
• 46:36
  Is that I mean, that's astonishing to me.
• 46:38
  You know, that's it's it's it's not the same thing, and I don't mean to equate that with returning to faith.
• 46:45
  But it does seem that there's a there's a rejection of visceral and I think spiritual.
• 46:52
  I think it's both.
• 46:53
  I think it's visceral and it's spiritual.
• 46:54
  Although we talk about music, there's certainly an intense spirituality to much of music.
• 47:00
  And I think that there is a visceral and a spiritual rejection of what's going on in the world.
• 47:08
  My hope is that that's something that will help and save the younger generations, but I hope that they are not enslaved to a point where they don't really have much in the way of options.
• 47:20
  Um It's an opportunity, it's an opportunity.
• 47:24
  However, every opportunity can be captured by darker forces.
• 47:29
  So I do see this in some of the young people that rather than um the religion of their immediate ancestors, they want to go back even further to a sort of brutal paganism.
• 47:40
  That sometimes surfaces.
• 47:43
  Well, that they want to they want a type of uh willful authoritarianism that can do battle more effectively with the perceived enemy.
• 47:53
  Which I don't see as a stable solution.
• 47:57
  Stable solution, yes.
• 47:59
  That's a sort of undirected anger.
• 48:01
  That we just need sort of a Viking lord to lop their heads off or something.
• 48:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 48:06
  Well, there's a Hitler even.
• 48:08
  There's certainly a temptation to go in that direction, but that becomes the matter of becoming what your enemy is.
• 48:15
  It's you know, going over to the dark side, if you will.
• 48:19
  And so what are your thoughts about the question of you had said earlier, are we willing to accept the circumstances that God has placed us in?
• 48:35
  You see, you mentioned something very much along those lines in the last segment, and I wrote it down because I thought it was very telling.
• 48:41
  You know, at some point, you know, I would just like I'm very disturbed, as you know, with all of the geoengineering activities that are going on over our heads every day.
• 48:50
  They've gotten to a point where basically, for better or for worse, I think it's for better people.
• 48:57
  Most people really don't think they're just water vapor anymore.
• 49:00
  I mean, it's too obvious.
• 49:02
  The weather's too ridiculous, it's too manipulated, and um, there's just too many of those lines in the sky.
• 49:08
  But at any rate, you know, that's something that truly, as you said, anger that that makes me so angry because it's just this want and destruction of nature.
• 49:17
  And uh the people that somehow think this is desirable, what are you going to leave behind for yourself?
• 49:24
  Even if you are one of these people with a bunker, and when there's only 500 million people, you can presumably come out and you're much wealthier because 15, 16th of the population is no longer here.
• 49:37
  What's going to be left?
• 49:38
  And um, on the one hand, I'm reminded of George Carlin's comment that uh save the planet.
• 49:44
  He says the planet doesn't need saving.
• 49:47
  The planet's not going anywhere.
• 49:49
  We are.
• 49:50
  And um, you know, I my concern is in in this segment right now is how do you
• 50:00
  Manage.
• 50:01
  How do you function, keep yourself functioning well in a world where we see just recurrent, recurrent signs, whether it's gain of function, you know, Marty Mackery from FDA essentially came out and said, not FDA, but um well, yeah, FDA.
• 50:20
  But uh Marty came out and just said that, yeah, Lyme disease was cooked up in the lab.
• 50:26
  They've been weaponizing ticks for all these years, you know, and we've got 1500 gain of function labs, there's another 1500 around the world.
• 50:35
  We're doing all this geoengineering, it's happening all over the world, and there's just this wanton weaponization and destruction of nature.
• 50:43
  And I'm not even talking about all of the destruction of natural resources and so on that goes on in these war zones.
• 50:51
  How do we function as to use your words, civilized people, Christians for many of us, but civilized people in a world where it's obvious that powerful people are simply wantonly destroying nature and just destroying weaponizing nature?
• 51:12
  God calls us from wherever we are.
• 51:16
  And we all have spheres of influence, right?
• 51:19
  Some are small, some are larger.
• 51:23
  Um but we all live in families, we all live in communities.
• 51:31
  We are called to influence those and to make it better.
• 51:37
  You know, it's one of the remarkable things Brownstone's been doing is the uh we're trying to get supper clubs going.
• 51:44
  Why?
• 51:45
  Because we function better in community.
• 51:48
  And even if it's only a dinner where there's maybe a couple dozen people, the idea is that we're connecting, we're purifying our thinking, we're supporting each other.
• 51:58
  And but now we're a visible group that can then go out and influence even more.
• 52:05
  Um you mentioned, you know, you know, the cell phones and the technology.
• 52:12
  How how how atomizing that all is, right?
• 52:15
  Oh, it's just you and your Spotify uh list and your YouTube algorithm.
• 52:22
  It does really disconnect us from community.
• 52:28
  And that's not saying that there isn't a place for that in life, but you still need to be able, you know, how how many people are never at the local bar or or community uh center even interacting with anyone.
• 52:43
  You know, if we learn to be comfortable in ourselves amongst others, both strangers and the people we know, and simply raise consciousness, raise awareness of what's going on, that's how the world changes.
• 53:01
  You know, we can shake our fists at the sky the whole time, but no one no one other than God's listening, and he's telling you to get to work down there and stop yelling.
• 53:14
  Yes, very well.
• 53:16
  So, really at that level of interpersonal and um well, not even interp, just personal relationships, personal interactions.
• 53:27
  And um, you know, that's something that, you know, uh, I think that many of us that see this these times as being very dark struggle with.
• 53:40
  One of the reasons I struggle myself, I'll be very honest, is and again, this is not meant to be condescending, this is not meant to be self-righteous.
• 53:49
  If it sounds that way, I apologize.
• 53:51
  But the notion that so many people seem to be simply unaware of what's going on.
• 54:01
  Or, or perhaps again, I don't want to be condemnatory, but they're aware at a level, but they don't seem to care.
• 54:08
  You know, the notion right now that boggles my mind that our country, which has done it many, many times.
• 54:16
  So again, I'm late to the table, but I'm at the table now.
• 54:22
  You know, that our country has repeatedly simply gone into other countries and sought to dominate and plunder and doesn't even go through the legal within its own legal framework, doesn't even go through the process of getting the permission to go to war.
• 54:40
  Um, that we do this time and time and time again, and we're doing it again now.
• 54:46
  Note that we do it while we also have a culture that yells at missionaries of a prior generation.
• 54:54
  We just bring bombs.
• 54:55
  They brought the gospel, and somehow we're the good guys.
• 54:58
  I I don't I don't buy that logic.
• 55:01
  I don't either.
• 55:02
  And I think that um I think that the degree of psychological projection that has to be involved there, you were saying how you know they always overplay their hand, and perhaps that's part of the reason, is because it's so psychologically invalid to do what is happening right now that it's done again, it's the story of history, right?
• 55:26
  But but it it's so psychologically unbalanced that it's almost impossible that someone could know when to stop.
• 55:35
  They almost have to go too far.
• 55:37
  You know, I had said um once, I think it was at one of the Brownstone talks where someone said, Well, you know, how long has this been going on?
• 55:44
  And I said, Well, have you read the Iliad?
• 55:47
  Because what do you have in the Iliad?
• 55:49
  You have a guy named Agamemnon, who's an absolute tyrant, who's willing to sacrifice his own children to go to war, um, who uses a false pretense, basically a false flag that his brother's wife ran away with somebody else as a pretense to go and fight a war for control of a trade bottleneck.
• 56:16
  It was the Dardanelles in that case, rather than the Straits of Hormouth, but I mean, you know, we it's the same story, and what happens?
• 56:24
  He ends up being killed, his whole, you know, most of the people that went to war with him end up being killed, and Troy is utterly destroyed, and it's just an absolute catastrophe.
• 56:36
  Thank you so much, Father John.
• 56:38
  Uh, this is Dr.
• 56:39
  Clayton J.
• 56:40
  Baker MD on the America Out Loud Pulse Program, America Out Loud Radio Network, Liberty and Justice.