Latest / Before You Speak / Before You Speak | Episode 36 | Policy vs. Character a Graham Platner Coversation

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Before You Speak | Episode 36 | Policy vs. Character a Graham Platner Coversation · Before You Speak

• Derek: What's up y'all? Welcome back to the Before You Speak podcast. I'm your host, Derek Peterson, you know, just processing the fire hose of my newsfeed with this ⁓ this guy over here. Elwyn: Hey everybody, I am Elwyn and the fire hose of my newsfeed is ⁓ filled with illegal immigrants coming over here for birth tourism. Derek: And you know, just so we can ⁓ land some citizenship, throw ⁓ some Elwyn: But that's it. ⁓ that's that's a term. That's a thing that came up in the opinion. Birth tourism is a fucking term that people use. Derek: All right. Let's ⁓ what is it? What are we what are we fucking doing? All right, well, we're gonna get into that in a second, but let's start up with something let's start with something lighter because I just watched, I think, the best soccer game I may have ever seen in my life. Egypt goes up 2 0 and it which should have actually been 3 0 on one of the best goals I'd seen that got called back on a dumb call. And I will say this. ⁓ Elwyn: Yeah. Yeah. Derek: World Cup has some of the most inconsistent refereeing I have ever seen in any sport. And a penalty kick ⁓ inside of the game, not penalty kicks after the game to decide it, but a penalty kick inside of the game is the most valuable penalty in all of sports, I've come to decide. So many of these games are decided by one goal, and a penalty kick, you've got to have like a a plus sixty percent odd of making it. th that is the most unfair advantage in all of sports. but I guess it's you know, it's the you can never change that now, but it's ⁓ Elwyn: I it's like a penalty shot in hockey, right? Like one on one. Derek: Yeah, but hockey the goal is way smaller. ⁓ and yeah, and I to be honest, it and the goalie fills up half of it. So, you know, the that's the that's the that's the thing. It's like a penalty kick in soccer is almost like you're just giving them the goal. ⁓ and then Messi ⁓ and Messi got one blocked in this game, ⁓ which was crazy. ⁓ and then in the last fifteen minutes, Argentina's down Elwyn: I don't know how people miss penalty kicks. Derek: Two goals and Argentina comes back and scores three goals to win the game, which is just bananas. And all of them were incredible. So like ⁓ fun to watch. ⁓ not fun to watch was the opposite, which is the game that I called last night. ⁓ right before it started, I told my wife, I'm like, Belgium is about to ⁓ ransack the US and I'm pretty sure we could feel the entire world ⁓ wanting us to lose worse than anything in the world. ⁓ and I I I actually I wish I had videoed it, but I called it with my wife. I was like, we're about to lose four to one. ⁓ and we did. So Elwyn: Yeah, the ⁓ I find I know very little about soccer. I'm not a soccer fan. ⁓ so but I ⁓ I've talked about the last couple of weeks. I'm I'm loving the the scenes and the energy from the World Cup. But you know, then I I there's plenty of moments where I get to watching it and I'm like, I don't understand like there's a game in the ⁓ there was a moment in the game last night where ⁓ one of the US players just tackled, you know, one of the Belgian players. ⁓ you know, it's like okay, and th and it was called a free kick for for Belgium. It was like ⁓ midfield, not you know, not some massive play. But like, no, he he put his both both his arms around him and fell over and brought him down with him. And they're like getting up screaming like somehow that's not a penalty and I'm like and the announcers are like, Well, they're dissecting. I'm going, He tackled him. Like I He's showed that replay like three times. He tackled like that's a penalty. Why are we still talking about this? Move on. It's a fucking pre-kick. And let's go. What you know, the there's just there's a ton I don't understand about it. The thing that I don't understand the most, and and this is like makes me I guess this makes me bad American, is like I watch how this country goes crazy about men's soccer every four years for twenty two days. Derek: Yeah. Elwyn: And then we forget about it for 1200 days after that. And then we go crazy like somehow this is a sport that we that we like deeply care about. Yeah, it's like and I and it's just like I haven't almost an allergy to it. I have a a backlash against it where it's like, yeah, no, I I'm I want the United States to win, but like I'm more interested in other countries that have way more invested in it. Right? Like if it's if if if it's a sport that we're good at, like hockey in the Olympics or stuff like that. Yeah, I'm all in, but we have no business winning the World Cup. You know, we have no Right, so so why are we why are we acting like we like we're going to? Like I d I don't know. I have just a weird a weird relationship to World Cup soccer. So I was texting my friends last night. I was like, cool, now I'll look forward to nobody talking about the US men's soccer team for four years. Derek: We will never win the World Cup. We will No. Yeah, that's exactly it. I don't even know. And half of the time the national soccer teams turn over, like it they change players so often that I'm like, I don't even know. And all those players play at different clubs all over the world. So it's so hard to follow all of the like the ins and outs of it. But I will say, watching dudes break away towards the goal and then just having another dude grab their jersey and pull them down to to stop it. I'm like, how how is this not that should be a penalty kick? That should that sh like just clearly s knowing that you're you're about to get beat and and grabbing the dude. Basketball actually fix that. They ⁓ if you if you foul a guy intentionally on a fast break, ⁓ they get two free throws and the ball back just to like to make up for it because it's ⁓ Elwyn: Yeah, yeah. Well that's a penalty shot in hockey too. If you if you pull a guy down on a fast break, yeah, that's a penalty shot. ⁓ Derek: Yeah. I was like, how is this not a thing here? But whatever. Alright. Enough World Cup. ⁓ nobody nobody cares about soccer anyway. Elwyn: Yeah, we stopped caring around ⁓ eight thirty last night. Derek: Yeah, we're s we're six minutes into this podcast and I don't care anymore. So let's talk about ⁓ real quick, I just want to touch ⁓ news surfacing again ⁓ report that came out that during the Biden era, thirty percent the a thirty percent increase in housing ⁓ housing wa is basically blamed on illegal immigrants. ⁓ when you do a deeper dive into the document that was actually released, and ⁓ I have not fully read it. ⁓ in full disclosure, but ⁓ I always take these things with a grain of salt because the these metrics are one impossible to actually ⁓ calculate with like in full in the fullness of our country. We have a huge country and understanding all of the properties that are sold to whom and why ⁓ is just a a feat that feels like insurmountable. But ⁓ a couple of things that ⁓ like worthy of noting here. Is that one, yes, illegal immigrants have need a place to live, so they impact housing to some degree. But this rhetoric that they're buying housing and causing housing housing prices to rise, that's to me just ridiculous. ⁓ been doing it eleven years, never sold a house to an illegal immigrant. ⁓ they you have to have documentation to buy a house. You don't have to be a citizen to buy a house, but you do have to have documentation. ⁓ and you also have to have a down payment that's sourced. So ⁓ those two things restrain people from purchasing houses. And even if you're trying to buy a house in cash, that money has to be sourced now. They've changed those laws ⁓ over the last few years or out over the last I think it's been like ten years. So title companies have to source cash deals as well. You have to prove that it's not drug money essentially. So yeah, like it this stuff is is silly. So does immigr illegal immigrants causing rent prices in certain areas to grow to go up, potentially. do they have a huge impact on the housing market as a whole? No. ⁓ I wish they did though, 'cause I have some houses under ⁓ three hundred K in Kyle that I would love to sell to just about anybody at the moment. So Elwyn: The this this whole immigrant illegal immigration drives up housing prices is I don't know. I don't want to call MAGA stupid, even though I call them stupid a lot. But the reason that I call them stupid a lot is because of shit like this. Like this is fucking stupid. This is on its face absurd. This is on its face, you know, Republican politicians, Mike Johnson, Steven Miller saying, What is a bad what's bad in this country? Housing prices are too high. Great. Tie illegal immigrants to it. Right, there's no there's no thought. If you if you think about it for two seconds, like they escaped the these people are escaping poverty in Venezuela to come and buy a house in the United States. Wh where did that money come from? Where come on, they did they just don't have the money. Right? And I don't think I don't think that's right. I I I don't think that this is like racist to say. Like, no, I I think it's Derek: Yeah, in the most expensive housing market in the world, la essentially. Elwyn: Pretty easy to say that like illegal immigrants, certainly the ones that the right is really mad about coming into this country, they don't have the money to buy a house. It just it four seconds of thought and the argument is over. But they keep feeding this red meat out because people just buy it and they regurgitate it and it feeds the fear and the fire of of racism and anti-immigrant rhetoric and just emotion. Derek: It just think through it. Yes. Elwyn: So yeah, sorry, if you believe that you know thirty percent rise in housing prices in in Austin is due at all to illegal immigrants, you're stupid. You you you're too you're stupid. I'm sorry, is I apologize to anybody I just call stupid, but I don't really because you're actually stupid. Think for a second. Derek: No, the thirty percent rising in ⁓ h housing prices in Austin was cods caused by tech bros from San Francisco. So like there's a that and that is very clearly documented across the board. ⁓ you wanna look at you could you could do an analysis of every person that grossly overpaid for a house ⁓ from twenty twenty through twenty twenty three, ⁓ and most of them were people from out of state. New York, California. Elwyn: Yeah. Derek: ⁓ Miami, places that were that ha people have very high incomes, didn't care paying a hundred K over list price on a house that never should have sold for that, and then ended up underwater on it. So but Elwyn: I I heard today that there are houses in San Francisco that are going for a million over over list. ⁓ you know, and math Yeah. Math and AI. ⁓ and you know, math and statistics are it's just math and statistics. Is if Austin goes up fifty percent and San Francisco goes up fifty percent and Dallas goes up fifty percent and and like five or six big cities are overweighting Derek: Yeah. I've heard the SpaceX IPO, right? Elwyn: the national average, you know, the national increase. Well that matters. And it's I don't know, it's just not illegal immigrants that are fueling the increase in housing costs. Derek: No dude, illegal immigrants are doing everything. They're, you know, killing our babies and our puppies and clubbing baby seals. They're stealing our health care and our jobs 'cause ⁓ they're taking our houses, they're ⁓ burning down our national parks and you know, s making slits in the ⁓ the the reflective pool, like I'm sh okay. That's Elwyn: Yeah. So that was an Olympian. That was a former Olympian. They accord according to San Molito though, they are degrading our citizenship. They are the degrading the value of our citizenship. That is what they are doing. Derek: well let's talk about the ⁓ birthright citizenship case that just was ⁓ that transition us transitions us perfectly. ⁓ 'cause I I think I hate all of the Supreme Court now. So Elwyn: Yeah, I mean look, five justices got it right. ⁓ but this this should have been nine to nothing. This should have been the the so yeah, let's go back a second. So the Fourteenth Amendment says in its first sentence that all persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States. It was passed in you know, eighteen seventy one or something, right after the Civil War. ⁓ and it was the the express purpose of it was to provide citizenship for anybody born in this country in an effort to make sure that slave children of slaves who you know were their parents came over on a boat and then had a baby, that those people would be citizens and subject to all the benefits of the United States citizenship. There was a law passed in eighteen sixty six concurrently that said basically the same thing. All persons born in the United States are citizens that gave birthright citizens. That's what birthright citizenship is. ⁓ so you know, Trump, and I I forgot to look up, I think this getting rid of birthright citizenship was in Project 2025. So Trump rolls into office, and this thing that nobody had thought was controversial at all, ever. Like 18 months ago, no one talked about birthright citizenship as being controversial. No one. Trump says, yeah. I I think it sucks. So I'm gonna issue an executive order saying that birthright citizenship is no more. Of course that gets challenged, goes up to Supreme Court. And you know, you had like one or two legal scholars writing some articles about that one phrase subject to the jurisdiction thereof. And they were like, That that means some convoluted by some convoluted mechanism, that means that we don't actually have birthright citizenship the way everybody has understood it. And you know, if you're here illegally, you're not fully subject to the jurisdiction. And they give like seven different reasons why, none of them make a whole lot of sense. ⁓ and now all of a sudden it's in the right wing sphere and away we go. So they get to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court at oral argument looks like it's gonna go like seven two against, you know, you can always count on Thomas and Alito to just be fucking insane. ⁓ so it comes out and it's and it's five four. Derek: Fuck Clarence Thomas. Elwyn: And it's close, right? So it's like, okay, birthright citizenship is on upheld, but like of the five votes, Kavanaugh said he didn't can he concurred in the decision, but dissented basically on the reasoning of the decision. And his reasoning h what he said was like, I don't think it's in the Constitution. I think Congress could write a law that, you know, overturns birthright citizenship. But they haven't. So I have to agree. So he's now giving the lane to ⁓ to the Mike Johnsons of the of the world. So what's but that's what's really noticeable that it was five to four, right? This is plain English, right? And you can kind of see in some of the dissents. Clarence Thomas wrote a ninety one page dissent on this. The decision was twenty nine pages. Ninety the the you know, whole upholding was was twenty nine pages. Ninety one pages, you're writing ninety one pages, you're really struggling to find something convincing. You're you're really trying because it's just not there. And you know it's just not there. Like this decision could have been one page. Read the fourteenth amendment. Derek: Ha ha. Yeah, I would have just yeah, I would have just copied and pasted the fourteenth Amendment. Which probably is what should have been Yes. Elwyn: Yeah. Yeah, the executive order is overturned. Here, boom, done, you know, but ⁓ so that there are four justices that are willing to overturn this, ⁓ is alarming and and staggering, and if we resume out from just birthright citizenship, y it's just another example of how ⁓ how full of shit the right wing justices on the Supreme Court really are. Because their whole thing is originalism and and textualism and look to what's actually said and look to the debates and look to what was happening at the time that the amendment was passed or the time the law was written and look to all this stuff, go back as far in history as you possibly can, because that's when it was all white men doing all the good stuff that we like, and there were no minorities or women involved and we're gonna get our best answer there. Well, if you do that for the fourteenth Amendment, you get a very clear answer. It applied to anybody born in the United States, period. It's in the law. It's it's in the 1866 law. It's in the debates surrounding the amendment. They talked about whether it should not be that way, right? And they said they all agreed no. It's in the 1898 Supreme Court case on this. It's on a law that was passed like 40 years ago. Everything points, if you're an originalist or a textualist, to yeah, birthright citizenship exists. It's about as cut and dried as you could possibly ever get. They don't like it. So they're gonna twist themselves in knots to go away from it because they're full of shit. All their ideologies that they claim to have, they're nothing more than arrows in a quiver that they can pull when they want to find a result and lean on something, but ultimately they're just seeking the result that they want. Derek: I still don't I I don't fully understand the end game yet and this is this is the part that of that's so hard for me to wrap my head around, right? Everybody on the left wants like talks about how stupid Trump is. And I don't think he's as stupid as people think he is. You don't get to w to where he's at by just falling up a ladder. Like, yes, he's an epo baby. Yes, ⁓ he he does some terrible shit, but I I there is a lot more evil in this dude than I think people give him credit for. And I think he I think the one thing he knows how to do is how to play a room. And he knows if you think he's stupid, you you don't take him at face value. You don't view him as the threat that he actually is and the evil that's actually behind all this. And so the stupidness and the talking like an idiot and just saying dumb shit all the time, it feels like it's all a distraction to actually get to what he really wants, which is power and money, which is the root of all evil, correct? And so many of these decisions just feel so evil. They just feel so wrong. Like just blaming peop innocent people for things that are not that that that they had nothing to do with. And then taking all of your anger and frustration and then furthermore, leading a ⁓ you know, coalition of other awful people to to like bringing them to the water. Basically, hey These people are the root of all your problems, not me. ⁓ and it's and it they they're just drinking it up. And my my frustration with all of this is just that, man, I it just feels like there's a bigger game at play that's not being talked about enough. And the game at play just feels like it's that it has to do with keeping his family, get making sure they have more money than anybody else in the world, and as a result, more power. And ⁓ there's something in the immigration ⁓ system there's something about illegal immigrants that I'm missing that is that by them eliminating birthright citizenship, there has to be some benefit to them maintaining power. And I know voting and all that kind of stuff, like typically brown and black people ⁓ don't vote as heavily Republican, but I I still think it might be deeper than that. And I haven't put my finger on it yet, but man, it just it Something about all of this feels A way more master planned than we're giving them credit for. And B, ⁓ I don't think we're recognizing how evil it all actually is. But Elwyn: Yeah, I I mean, I don't know. I Donald Trump, you you hit on his superpower. His superpower is just kind of reading the room and knowing how he can, you know, get people to follow him, how he can prey on people and sell whatever it is he wants to sell. that's that's clearly his superpower. ⁓ but I don't think that he's like a deep thinker. I and I don't I I think yes, he's transparently corrupt and enriching h his own family. And we see that all over the place. But again, it's not hidden, right? We don't have to look deep for it. And he's transparently trying to consolidate power through redistricting and and mail voting and things like that. Again, we don't have to look deep for it. It's all right on the surface. And I think with this one, you know, I don't I don't think he really cares about birthright citizenship, except that someone told him, hey, if you do this you know, it's great red meat for your base, you'll you'll really get people fired up and and it'll be wonderful. And then you just honestly, you just toss in a nice, healthy dose of racism. And away you go. You you you know, it's it's not white people that he's mad about getting birthright citizenship, right? We all know that. Derek: Yeah, but but think about it and like I always think about it in the sense of like who I am. Like once I accomplish a goal, I'm on to the next one, right? And like if you're people that get to where he's gotten, there is always a scheme in play. There there's there's always a work towards something, right? ⁓ and maybe this is just my own self reflection and not understanding as people people as well as I think I do, but ⁓ I I think that Trump is way smarter than people are giving him credit for, especially the the Democrats. And I think this I think a lot of what's going on is far more evil than ⁓ we are than than they're letting on to as well. And ultimately I think ⁓ the goal is ⁓ you know, straight ⁓ oligarchy, potentially caste system type situation that Elwyn: Yeah, but like w I mean, I guess my question for you is like, okay, I believe that Trump is purely transactional. He does what is best for him at any given time, and that might mean s you know, agreeing that he should do something about birthright citizenship or agreeing about or or tariffs or start the Iran war or stop the Iran war or start it again or Listen to Netanyahu or whatever. I believe he's purely transactional. I believe he's a great salesman. ⁓ but I also think that like you're you're you're searching for the evil, right? Is the corruption not the evil? It it is the seeking the end of democracy. But so what are you looking for? It's there. Like, like you're it at you're you're like when you talk like when you when you lay that out, like you you decry everything he's doing as evil. Derek: ⁓ no, it is. Yeah. Elwyn: And then you say, I'm wondering what the evil is. It's there. Like you know what the evil is. It's right in front of you. And I think that's what people like that's one of the things that drives me a little bit crazy is like, no, no, no. We don't need to find some deeper evil to trying to rig elections or trying to overthrow elections. Right? That is the evil. That's the deeper evil right there. End the conversation and fix the problem. Derek: Yeah, fair point. Yeah, I I guess it just feels like I guess I I guess I want somebody just say it is that he wants world domination. It feels like that's it feels like the bad guy in a superhero Yes, that's that's that's what I and I feel like every move that everything that happens in our country and in our our world at the moment revolves around one question. Does it benefit him and his family and or can they Elwyn: Yeah, no, he Derek, he wants world domination. Derek: Can they use the narrative to divert attention from the thing that they're actually trying to accomplish? But everything centers around this one goal, right? And and it feels like that goal is master plan and master manipulated. And that's the part that ⁓ you know, like when you go on to Threads or X or Blue Sky and you just see all these people talking about all these different topics, it's like if you actually look at the thread that runs through them all. You're like, man, there is that there is a thread. And the thread is that all of these things either distract us from something that Trump's doing or they benefit him. And the things that benefit him and his family towards achieving those goals, as soon as that starts to get too much attention, we're diverted it by some other dumb shit that he does just to keep to throw our attention off. And I that's the part to me that I'm like, man, ⁓ and maybe I I d I guess I just don't know that we're ⁓ I we're I feel like we're falling for it, if that makes sense. That we're we're playing we're we're playing into the game. And maybe we're even doing that by doing this podcast. But Elwyn: ⁓ we're absolutely falling for it. Yeah. But but the reason no but no, I don't think so at all. Because the reason, at least for me, and like the reason that I have disliked Trump from the beginning. You know, from the very beginning, is because I think honestly, I think I've seen him clearly for what he is all along, and what's driven me the most crazy about it is that d despite The the glaring obviousness of his narcissism, of his selfishness, of his corruption, of his grift, which was plenty present from his inauguration in 2017 through today, right? It's always been plenty pres plenty obvious and right in front of us, despite all of that, there's this like need that smart people have and that media companies now we know they're all on the take, but like that media people have to like. say well that can't be right. He can't be so completely corrupt that like everybody's booking out his hotel in the old post office building in DC, you know, just to get a meeting with him and they get meetings with him after they do it. That can't possibly be correct. It's too obvious. No. No. That's it. It's it's that obvious. It's right fucking there. He's been a in nineteen in the nineteen seventies he was sued by the Department of Justice. Derek: Yes. Elwyn: For being a racist fucker in one of his apartment buildings. He had the Central Park Five ad calling for them all to be killed when they turned out to be innocent. The guy's been a racist his entire life. He's been a selfish bastard his entire life. He's only looked out for himself his entire life. He's been purely transactional his entire life. And now for ten years, it this drives me crazy. We struggle to find some answer other than the very obvious one, which is he gives zero shits about anybody but himself. And if there's something he can do that he sees a transactional benefit in that instant, he will do it. He doesn't care about the next instant. He'll figure that out when he gets to it. And it's worked for him. And somehow, just somehow, we haven't locked in on that yet. And it's just seems so like he can be smarter than I want to give him credit for. But he's not more complex. Derek: Yeah. Elwyn: than I think he is. I don't think he's complex at all. Whenever you throw a complex issue at him, he fails it. Tariffs are a complex issue, he fails it. Right? COVID was a complex issue. He failed it. So, you know, smart, not smart. He doesn't that's right. Derek: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause he doesn't actually give a shit. It's you're correct. It's obvious. It's it's y everything goes back to money and power. So it if you just follow the it's money and power for his family and if you him and his family and if you if you think anything beyond that, it just ⁓ it doesn't like and ever well and everything else that comes up is essentially used as a diversion to keep you from paying attention to the fact that everything is about his money and power. Elwyn: Yeah, the the whole conversation of like what is what what's the what's the hidden evil? You know, well then you look to Stephen Miller and like Russell Vote because they'll show you very plainly the hidden evil. But like it's just he doesn't care about good or evil, right? There is no hidden evil because I don't think there is a hidden plan beyond what you've just said. How can I enrich myself? Derek: So That dude looks evil. Yeah. It'd be ⁓ if you were to like artistically draw, like tell this story with never actually seeing the characters, but like give give like an artist ⁓ just the the character description of Steven Miller and s and Bannon, ⁓ they would probably draw them as they are. Like like they look they they look like evil sons of bitches. So Elwyn: Yeah, Ban Bannon for sure, who would look exactly like he looks. Derek: It's ⁓ which is hilarious. all right. Well, let's stop shitting on Trump there 'cause we could go all day. ⁓ and then we just sound like every other podcast on the face of the planet today, rather Yeah, let's let's let's talk about Grand Platinum. ⁓ so it we're we're ⁓ we're shifting a little bit from what we said we were gonna do last week and we're gonna actually and I I this Platiner story ⁓ hit me hard enough last night that I I felt like, hey, I wanna talk Elwyn: Yeah, we can shit on some Democrats, right? Derek: do an episode ⁓ talking about the ethical and morical moral standards of our politicians and the electorate. Like, so like how do we mince up and and and decide, you know, where where the line is? Like, because w and we're experiencing this in real time. We see, you know, guys like James Tallerico who are ⁓ who tend who look and feel at the moment at least I'm sure we're gonna have some allegation come out about him, but that there is like a a set of standards and values that he is abides by. And then we see guys like Trump and Ken Paxton, and ⁓ and now we're looking at Grant Graham Platner, who we had talked about before on a number of levels, first because of the Nazi tattoo, ⁓ which we ultimately ended up forgiving him for because of his explanation of it, and because he was I mean he was honest about it. This stuff is a little bit more dangerous ⁓ with the the woman that came out. And I watched the CNN interview with her ⁓ and the allegations of rape ⁓ against Platner. And apparently I think there there may be another one as well. And so this is ⁓ I I think it's important that we talk through some of this stuff because well one. This hits home for me because I've been through this. ⁓ I was married, got divorced. I met this woman after I was ⁓ after my first divorce that was borderline obsessed with me and basically the only thing the I liked that she liked me. ⁓ well th what I didn't realize is that when the pendulum swung back the other direction, that it was actually gonna be way worse. And ⁓ our marriage ⁓ we ended up eloping, which was the dumbest thing that I've ever done. If I could have a mole again, I would. But there were a number of situations that came up ⁓ in our relationship that she accused me of being abusive. ⁓ and I've never touched another human being in my life. And she accused me of physical abuse, emotional abuse, and spiritual abuse, ⁓ to a number of people. ⁓ she also went as far as to try and get a restraining order against me, which apparently she got laughed out of the room by a judge because ⁓ she had never filed a police report, ⁓ had no evidence of the any kind of abuse, and and then when she presented our text arguments, the judge was like, This is a fight between a couple. This isn't ⁓ this isn't him threatening. I had never said any threatening anything threatening. Never said I was going to like try to come to your apartment or come try to find you, nothing like that. So he was like, Yeah, this none of this actually makes sense. So I've been on the receiving end and and that situation, you know, this woman got a hold of all of my clients and contacts and sent this message out to everybody. And it destroyed my life for years. Like It was ⁓ it ultimately ended up being one of the best things for me because it forced me to actually grow from it. But man, like these allegations are serious and they're they're serious in a number of levels. And the worst part about them were that I think she genuinely believed a lot of it. I think the f fervency in which she spoke about her her hatred for me at the time, she genuinely thought that I was abusive. And I learned this because we were in a therapy session. We start had th started therapy. Even after she moved out of our house, the therapist, ⁓ we were in therapy and you know, she made the accusation that I was emotionally and spiritually abusive and admitted to our therapist that I was never physically abusive to her and her son, which thank God. But ⁓ the accusation of emotional abuse was the biggest one for me. And her explanation of that was we f Derek gets mad, we fight, and then, you know, afterwards he comes and apologizes, but then we end up going through the same process over again. And, you know, that is the definition of abuse. Like, you know, it never changes. And our therapist looked at her and was like, Well, okay, like if that's the definition of abuse that you're you're looking at, would you define yourself as abusive to him as well? ⁓ She obviously lost her sh she lost her shit, walked out, and ⁓ that was the end of therapy and the end of our marriage. I filed for divorce a week after that. but so all of that to say is that the allegation of something and the reality of it are very different. And here's here's the thing that I'm struggling with with the platinum thing. ⁓ because I I genuinely love. the platform that Platt Plattner stood on. Like his talking points, what he believes in for our country, the future of our country, what he believed in for Maine. ⁓ there was so much about him that I thought was amazing. And my struggle with this situation is that one, y w we'd heard rumblings of something happening, but like I struggle in general because ⁓ well I I want to hear his side of the story. I want to hear him come out and actually talk about this to find out if like h d is this is what she said accurate. Like, because if it is, yeah, fuck off. Get out of here. Like the like that is an absolute disqualifier. The flip side of it is that when you get inside of a marriage relationship and you are judging people or or sorry, any kind of ⁓ any kind of relationship. When you get in into the inner workings of a relationship. Elwyn: They were married. Derek: And you're judging somebody off of their worst moments, ⁓ I I think we would all be look like fucking assholes and be uprooted from our lives if if people knew the shit that we have ⁓ potentially said to our spouses or somebody else. I've said some of the worst shit to my exes and even to Mara at times when I'm i at my lowest points. And thank God that she's forgiven me for a lot of that stuff, but she's also done similar things to me. So There is ⁓ there is a balance in some of this stuff that I'm trying to understand. And you know, like and furthermore, like if you were raped, you know, like why was there not a police report filed? Like why was there and look, I understand that people don't believe women. I understand that there's like a lot of other things that go on around that, but like I don't know, like there's certain things that I'm like, yeah, there I I'm not just going to jump on the ship because somebody said it and everybody else is jumping on it at the moment. Like I I having been through this, I'm like, yeah, I want a little bit more. Like I want to understand that this person isn't just like my ex-wife who is pressing the Elwyn: Do you hold the same standard for Ken Paxton? For Brett for Brett Kavanaugh. Derek: In what in what in what sense? Elwyn: So Brett Kavanaugh was accused of ⁓ sexually assaulting Christine Blazey Todd. She got in front of Congress, in front of the world, testified in in some detail to what he did to her. He responded with screaming anger. And ⁓ you know, he is a justice of the Supreme Court who we despise. Did you at the time say, well You know, he was in high school and you know, all people in high school do dumb shit, so you know, I know I did dumb shit in high school, so it's okay. You know, do you hold Ken Paxton and and this is not like I I'm sorry if I come across as strong because I I hate that that happened to you. But like do you look at Ken Paxton and say like, Well, you know, I you know, he he he was addicted to his wife, but maybe his wife was a dick to him and and you know, it's it's okay that Derek: And I'm not say Elwyn: Yeah, just because what I think is happening here, I think there's a couple things happening. You said at the beginning, like where do we draw the line? And I don't think that's a question that has any merit, because what I see happening is we keep erasing the line and redrawing it somewhere else. And you can't keep erasing the line and redrawing it somewhere else and then look up sometime when you don't like where you are and you're like, Well, I don't know where we draw the line. No, we drew it like eight different places along the way and and you erased it each time. And now you don't like all of a sudden that Platten with you know a wonderful theory of power that I completely agree with, who you know I think is a really compelling political candidate. I've had I've had my reservations about him, I think, for a while. ⁓ you know, y now you get to the point where it's like it's your guy. And you either have the standard or you don't. You either You know, believe if you believed Christine Blazy Todd with Brett Kavanaugh as she stood up and testified, then you have to believe the woman it who's going through a rather startling interview with Jake Tapper. Like I listened I listened to most of that. Like, there's enough meat on the bones there for me to be like, yeah, nope. Fucking guy did it. Right? Absolutely he did it. There's enough corroboration, there's enough credibility to her that Timelines kind of match before he became a candidate that she was telling telling people about this years before. It's not the first time. There's Reddit threads where he's a fucking, you know, misogynistic asshole. You know, there's other people that we went hand waved away because she worked for the Heritage Foundation, the woman a month ago. So to me, I look at this and I'm just like, you know, I've I've had this criticism on the progressive left about Israel for a while. And now It's the same criticism. Like either we have the values and we demand the values that we ⁓ are angry at the Republicans for not giving shit about, or we don't. Now, do you believe every allegation that comes out? No, I I agree with that. But at some point, you know, at some point you just look at it and you have to be able to say, Nope. This guy, like, look, he's not going to jail for this, okay. Derek: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: And his life is probably better than it was before because he's now extremely popular around the country. He's a household name, or he can always go back to being an oyster farmer. Okay. But is he acceptable as a candidate for the s for a senator of the United States, given everything we know about him? Absolutely not. To me it's just it's as clean as day. We have we we have to have the line and when it gets crossed. Maybe there's two. Maybe the first time we hear that the allegation, we're like, okay, I need to know more. What are you know, what are the you know, what what are the motivations, blah blah blah. But at some point the weight of evidence has to come down and be like, Nope. Sorry, dude. Like, love your platform, but I hold my standards to a certain level. I hold my senators to a certain level. It's why I think Ken Paxton is such a a piece of shit, right? He's shown himself to be a valueless piece of shit. Derek: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: I don't care what his policies are, right? He's a corrupt criminal. He shouldn't be senator. Doesn't matter what party he works for. We kicked out Swalwell like a couple months ago. Good. Right? So the the only thing that's different here is people, you know, the progressive left, they really love Platiner. Derek: Yeah. Yeah. The I I d I disagree. I think there's a couple of differences. ⁓ one, a lot of what Ken Paxton has done is he's used the power of his office and different situations ⁓ to to benefit his own life. in full disclosure I didn't know much about the Brett Kavanaugh situation I I haven't followed enough of Ken Paxton's criminal record ⁓ until I didn't start getting into it until Talerico was running b ⁓ against him. And so ⁓ which happened recently. So ⁓ a of the Ken Paxton stuff outside of hearing rubblings of how terrible of a person he was, ⁓ and his office w like, you know, even his ⁓ wife voting to get him out, you know, ⁓ that of stuff. But ⁓ I I think the question that I've I'm wrestling with with is what what level of evidence do we need before deciding somebody is unfit for for office? and this is what I'm asking myself because y yeah, I don't want to just sit here and disqualify a candidate that has a lot of ⁓ policy and plans that I agree with while we're while we're talking about guys like Pen can Ken Paxton that could win I know this is yeah, fuck you for f messing me up on that. But you know, like and having a guy like Trump in office and then you know, it just feels it it feels often like there's a lot of virtual virtue signaling from the left. Like these things come out and we jump so quick to make a decision about what happened, who who's going on and We haven't even heard from Platiner yet on I've heard nothing from him about the allegations other than yeah, they're they're not accurate. Like and there's parts of me that's been in now understanding those situations and having been in ⁓ is and being claimed to be abusive. I'm like, yeah, like w okay, what was going on? And it look, if he validates the story, then yeah, of course that I'd be like, Yeah, dude Elwyn: He's not gonna validate the story. First of all, the story is that he was blackout drunk. Right? She says she was not. She was home. He was out at a bar. She sent he somehow there was some communication. She said, Don't come over. He came over. and you know, she asked him the next morning, do you remember at all what happened last night? And he was like, Nope, not at all. So the the story is that he was blackout drunk. So Derek: Yeah, was she drinking? Like what was the what was this okay. Yeah. Yeah. Elwyn: He might be completely honest when he says, I don't believe that I don't I don't I never did that 'cause he might simply not remember it. Derek: Yeah. And look, again, ⁓ this isn't me standing up for Graham Platner in the sense of like, hey, I believe I don't think Plattiner should be should you know relinquish himself from from running because yeah, at this point I I I I'm honestly of the opinion that I I don't think he should be there. ⁓ and listening to her talk, she was fully believable. I'm I'm not arguing that. ⁓ but I still would like to hear from him on this. I you know, he he addressed the Nazi tattoo with a level of honesty that was refreshing when I heard him talk about it and Elwyn: I don't think he was honest about the Nazi tattoo. Derek: Y you don't think he was? Elwyn: That he didn't know what it was? No, I don't think he was honest about that for a second. Derek: ⁓ I think that more of what I'm talking about was just that he was like, Look, yeah, I got it. Cause the the clip that actually introduced me to him. Yeah. The clip that in introduced me to Grant Platiner was him being like, Yeah, ⁓ I got it and I was a f idiot and I was a I was young and in the military and it was dumb and I made a mistake and I grew and I don't believe in those things anymore. And so I moved on. And so yes, like Elwyn: And I believe he was honest. Derek: There are things that absolutely should disqualify candidates. And and so I guess where do we go from here? Like how like how do we decide? Because it genuinely feels like we're playing two different games. Republicans are like, we don't fucking care what this guy did. This guy advances our policies and runs our country. And look at where our country is at now because of that. Republicans literally do not care. if their candidates have moral values or not. They care if it if their candidate is going to further their agenda. If their candidate is going to, you know, go hard on, you know, lock immigrants up and make sure women can't have abortions. That's all they care about. And so like from the left, we we have this virtue signaling that we we we do and then we disregard the policy. And then we end up settling for a candidate that either can't win or doesn't actually have the political policies that we want that are going to actually change America and the balls to stand up and push them through. And that's I guess what I'm waiting for is I I Elwyn: It's not virtue signaling if you actually believe it. Okay. And that's that to me is is where this comes down to. It's like, you know, we can have there's a discussion to be had, I suppose, some other day about like what is the threshold. And this is a gross conversation, by the way. What is the threshold that a woman needs to meet in order for us white men to believe that somebody in power with a drinking problem. you know, actually did the things that she says sh he did. Okay, sure, that's another conversation to be had. And you're right. We are playing a different game. You're absolutely right. The Republicans, they have repeatedly said that they care nothing about the morality of their candidates. They care solely about power and cementing power and crazy ass you know extremist policies. But I am one guy with one vote. Okay. And it only the the question for me that I ask is what will I give up to elect Graham Platiner? What will I give up to elect Andrew Cuomo? Right? What will I give up to elect any like sort of shitbag Democrat? Because I'm I'm not going to give up much to elect a a shitbag Republican. And the the line has to be close. I'm not really saying it has to be in exactly the same place. And here's Here's the thing, okay. I'm gonna shift back to the Nazi tattoo for a second because I think there's an interesting parallel. We talked last week about, you know, I've sort of lost my brain for a couple minutes about the extremism ⁓ you know, how the extremism of the right and you know how are ⁓ the Republicans going to counter the DSA and they're gonna do it through fear. Okay, we talked a lot about that. for Jewish Americans, ⁓ amount of fear that immediately enters into the equation when they see the left ⁓ a guy with a Nazi tattoo to become a popular, well-funded, populist nature candidate for Senate, right? The the when they move that line away from Nazi tattoo, no to Nazi tattoo. Yeah, okay, because we like what he stands for. Okay. Here's where here's where that goes in the minds of Jewish Americans. And I think this is a reasonable fear to have. You can decide how to weigh it, but you cannot ignore this fear. You have a number of DSA candidates who are virulently anti Israel, right? And they couch it in anti Zionism, and we don't like what the state of Israel is doing. But man, it sure feels like they don't like Jewish people an awful lot of the time, right? And the left is going like, no, it's all okay, because we like their policies, because Mamdani's doing a good job, and Mam Dani's doing a good job, and I like Mam Dani, okay? Like I'm not backtracking on what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that when we allow that line to shift, we run the risk of waking up in a place where we don't like what that line is. And I can tell you for Jewish Americans, you can look at Platner in a Nazi tattoo and it's being accepted by the left. You can look at Hassan Piker and El Sayyed in Michigan and some of the crazier candidates in New York City that are backed by Mamdanny, and you can see how much they seem to hate Jews, even if they're not saying it outright, and they're being accepted by the left. Where are we gonna wake up? On what side of the line? Right? Like, what do we allow before they say, Yeah, no, I'm coming after all the Jews? And then the left is like, ⁓ my god, well, we didn't know that was gonna happen. It's like, no, no, no. We knew for a year that Grand Platinum was a fucking shit bag. Derek: Yeah. Elwyn: We had plenty of online stuff. We had the first allegation. We had a a whole bunch of stuff. And now the progressive left is waking up all surprised, like, ⁓ my God, I didn't know he was that guy. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. You just fucking ignored it because you like him. That's all. We ignored it because we liked him. No difference. Right? Credit to Michelle Michelle Goldberg, who I think writes for The Atlantic or the Times, who put an apology out on social media because she did an article in October about him. And she said in her apology, she was like, Blame also goes to me, because when I met him in October, I was overcome with his charisma and the the power of his message and his campaign speech. And I was willing to overlook everything on Reddit as just being, you know, like one offs and the caterwalling of people online and stuff like this. And I was wrong. It is who he is. But I allowed myself to be blinded. She's right. That's what we have to look out for. Because on to a sexual assault victim. They're waking up today and they're going, We're gonna fucking elect a a a s another another rapist to a Senate position, this time a Democrat? The woman who who was on Jake Tapper, she's like, I didn't wanna come forward. I like what he's saying. I want him, I want his position as a senator in Maine. That's why I didn't come out before. Because I like I like what he stands for, but I just can't have it. It's not honest. Right? No, she said it directly Derek: Yeah. I didn't hear I didn't hear that. Yeah. Elwyn: You know, so it's like for a sexual assault victim, they're waking up today and they're going, God damn it again? Right. And as a Jewish American, you got Platner with a fucking Nazi tattoo, and you got this line moving. Always, always, always. Where are we gonna wake up? That is a fear, that is a real fear that is held by a lot of people I know. And this example from Platinum illustrates exactly how that fear comes to pass. And it is the progressive left that have stuck their necks out for him. That have egg on their face and that have allowed it. Now, I am no fan of Schumer. Schumer standing up for Andrew Cuomo is exactly the same thing on the other side. But when we talk about where do we draw the line, you draw your line, I drew my line, we all draw our own lines, but we have to hold them regardless of whether or not we like the guy. You know, if Tallerico comes out and he's got a fucking Nazi tattoo and his and a Confederate flag in his Bible, I'm not voting for the fucking guy. Okay? Because that's cros that crosses the line and that hurts me. Right? That hurts me because I want to vote for guys that have such strong policies. But I can't do it if I'm gonna credibly sit there and say Donald Trump is a rapist, even though, you know, there were no police reports filed. So to me, it's the wrong question. That where where do we draw the line? It's the wrong question. Derek: Yeah, you're I I I'm not gonna disagree with you there. And look, my I think my biggest fear with all of this is I and like I said, I I'm I'm out on Platinum for the most part. I still would like to hear him talk about this at some point, and I I hope he addresses it directly. ⁓ but yes, I I believe women when they say that that these things have happened, and especially in any kind of credible situation, and granted I only saw the clips of all that, I think that you're correct, it speaks to a bigger problem like who's running as a in but like it feels like there's a playbook now for the right to destroy anyone on the left, ⁓ which is just basically throw in a ⁓ let's throw in a sexual allo ⁓ you know, ⁓ assault allegation and granted the the stuff with Platner Elwyn: Left does that too though. Derek: you know, this was twenty twenty one. So this isn't like ⁓ this isn't like this was like from, know, 2002, ⁓ in a bar in Iraq or something a military thing. This was like a few years ago. ⁓ so yeah, ⁓ there's a lot about this situation that's fucked up. wanted to kind of like wrap this this part of it up with this because I don't think the goal should be to elect perfect people. We're not going to get there. And I think that's the sediment that I wanted to come across from the start. ⁓ I do think we need to ⁓ people that demonstr demonstrate honesty when they've made mistakes, accountability ⁓ than deflection, that they respect our ⁓ rule of law, ⁓ their willingness to tell the truth, ⁓ when it costs them. and specifically cost them politically and they conduct themselves ⁓ their conduct doesn't undermine the trust of the public. If you are going to run for office, this should it should be something that is respected enough for you to not lie to the people. And I think that's that's the situation that I'm in. I'm not expecting perfection. I'm just expecting honesty more than anything and accountability. And it man, I it's just it feels like it's fucking impossible to find. Elwyn: Yeah, I mean I think I mostly agree with you. Like it it's silly to expect that ⁓ c candidates for Senate and President and House are gonna be perfect people, especially when you I don't know that much about this, but I've heard a couple people talk about it who like study the the psychological makeup of people like that. And they're like damaged borderline sociopaths. Y you the like the it's more like you have to be fucked up in order to seek the presidency of the United States or Or to be a center, you have to have some level of narcissism, you know, and that's gonna and and that that level of narcissism is closely correlated to other types of behaviors that we might find abhorrent. So it's not perfection, and yep, it is honesty and accountability, but it is also like we have to turn that lens on ourselves. Right. And I don't and that's that's the most interesting part about this, is just you know. There were warnings about this guy all along, right? His his campaign manager quit like last October because she said, No, there's this is not your guy. This is not your guy. Don't go with this guy. She was talking to the Democrats all along, you know, trying to give warnings out, you know, and it's just my to me, this whole thing just shows the danger of permissiveness. Derek: Mm. Elwyn: to me, this whole thing just shows the danger of permissiveness. Because you happen to like someone and their policies and and when you are permissive to somebody like that, you at the at the same time you allow a bunch of shit that in the individual doesn't seem that bad, but in the aggregate leaves leads to truly horrible things. Because you happen to like someone and their policies and and when you are permissive to somebody like that, you at the at the same time you allow a bunch of shit that in the in in the individual instance doesn't seem that bad, but in the aggregate leaves leads to truly horrible things. ⁓ you know We we allow Donald Trump to do horrible things all through his life and then in the aggregate all of a sudden he's president of the United States doing them on a worldwide scale. You know, we we allow Nazi tattoos, we allow people to speak with rhetoric that really touches up on anti Semitism. Where does that w ⁓ what is the other side of that line? Right? We allow sexual abusers, misogynistic men to lever their power against women and get away with it over and over and over again. Derek: Yeah. Elwyn: What is the other side of that line? And we have to think about that before we move the line. And I'd and I think that we we Democrats where we virtue signal, to get back to that term, is we virtue signal when we scream at, you know, and your rebuttal about Paxton is is well founded, right? Like he has already used his office for corrupt means. But we screamed about it in twenty sixteen with Donald Trump and the grabbin' by the pussy audio clip and all that stuff. Derek: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: Like that's where we virtue signal. We Democrats, we are the party that listens to the women. Until we don't. You know, we are we Democrats, we are the party that pays attention to microaggressions and symbols of hate and and death. Until we don't. Right? And more and more now, we're on the until we don't side of things. And this is a great example of it. You know, we let a lot of shit go because we want to get Susan Collins the fuck out of there. Derek: Yeah. Elwyn: And that it is no more complex than that. And then it's virtu then yep. Now the rest of it is just virtue signaling the next time. Derek: Yeah. Yeah, there's a there's a hard line to ride here of having compassion while also allowing due process to play out. And you know, like that's the it's it's a balance. Cause yeah, you I want to believe people. I definitely do. And for me personally, I've been through hell with somebody that just straight bold fa face lied. And so yeah, I question everything people say and on both sides of it too. ⁓ men as well. I've heard men say some of the dumbest shit ever ⁓ and lie about ⁓ different situations that have come up. So but Elwyn: Yeah, the thing though, the thing that it's sorry, I it's just important. He's not it's not a due process question for him. Right? It just it just isn't. Due process is are you having an opportun Well no, it's not even the the weight of the allegations. It's like what what is his loss? Right? Like and what did he stand to gain and what arena did he play in? So is the standard Derek: Yeah. I agree. I think there's enough I I I would agree. I'm Elwyn: What what is the difference then? I don't necessarily haven't thought about this, so I don't have a coherent answer, but like you know, I I understand why you hear stuff like this and and you go through the thought process that you do. I hear it and I hear your story and I think there are these are not the same. The the fundamental, the foundation of these stories is not the same. Because the harm the harm that Derek can do if we're wrong about Derek is de minimis. The harm that Platinum can do if we're wrong about Platinum is huge. So it is a different line to me, and it is a different analysis for. Derek: I would agree with that too. Yeah. Elwyn: Candidate for the there were one hundred senators in this country. One hundred. You know, yeah, it's a different line. Derek: Yeah. Fair point. Well, ⁓ are we telling me to shut the fuck up today? Is that I feel like ⁓ dude, I I appreciate it and I ⁓ I respect it. Elwyn: No, no. Sorry. I don't I don't you know, you told me I could disagree with you, so you know, in we go. Sports fan Donald Trump, shut the fuck up. Derek: This is perfect. This is exactly what we needed. Elwyn: Alright, like whatever. Anything else, like it's too obvious with Donald Trump. But his record now of trying to get into the s to to ⁓ be a sports fan in any way, it is he is ⁓ for the last like six years. It's just amazing. You ⁓ everybody in the United States had to know when he had that red card suspended that or the suspension suspended. They're like, fuck. Certainly every Nick fan was like, God damn it, it's over. Derek: Yeah. The Lions fan with Amr with Amon Ross St. Brown doing the Trump dance. Dude, I should have gone out and bet all of my money on Belgium as soon as I heard that come down. Elwyn: You asked you a Yeah. Yeah, it's like ⁓ that that they're totally gonna lose now. It goes to the nick game, they lose it. It's the only game they lost in like eight weeks was when he was there. Right? Domin Ryan, it's it's it's an incredible record of just futility and loss and everything Trump touches dies. So in order to keep the games pure, because it has to be, you know, some sort of cosmic interference, in order to just at least keep our sports Derek: Yeah. Elwyn: as pure as they can be in the the age of billions of dollars. Donald Trump, the sports fan, don't do anybody any favors. Shut the fuck up. Watch Fox News. Pretend sports doesn't exist. Stay the fuck out of it and and let's have like a cosmically uncorrupted game, you know, sports year throughout the year. Derek: Well well well put. And much more lighthearted shut the fuck up considering that today's conversation was a little bit heavier. So ⁓ what are we talking about next week? Back to ⁓ Elwyn: We can go back to LBJ, who apparently has a giant cock that he used to show ⁓ on the center floor. ⁓ Derek: Well, ⁓ not Googling that. So All right. Well Well, ⁓ tune in next week everybody to see LBJ's giant cock on the setup floor. Elwyn: Mm-hmm. What one one of our several loyal listeners sent that to me.