Latest / Beyond The Trailhead / Ripstop By The Roll Marketing Director Jameson MacFarland | Beyond the Trailhead Podcast Ep. 37
Transcript
- speaker-0: Alright, everyone, welcome to Beyond the Trailhead. We got an incredible guest with us this week, but we're also in a unique location. We're over at Switchback in New Orleans for the trade show. And we wanted to have an ⁓ a guest over that I've wanted to have for a while. ⁓ if you're in the industry and you've been trying to create your own product, ⁓ or if you are you have a product out there, you've probably heard of or are using Ripstop by the Roll. So without further ado, we have Jameson with Ripstop the Roll. How are you? speaker-1: Fantastic. It's been a lot of fun. being in New Orleans is great. Yeah. We have amazing food. But also I think just seeing people as well. I think a lot of us, especially an e-commerce company like ourselves, it's easy to get stuck behind the screen and being out just lends itself to yeah. Interesting conversations, fun conversations, and ⁓ obviously a lot of benefit from those of us that are trying to do business. speaker-0: Awesome, how's the show? Yeah. And if we look tired is because ⁓ there was there is a tropical storm that came through and then there's tornado warning, so everybody phone started going off at five thirty in the morning saying there was a tornado. yeah, floodwatch, and then now we all cancel our flights and ⁓ re rechanged everything. But ⁓ it was great to just see you guys on the show floor, seeing people kind of come by and interacting with you. So ⁓ on the show and on the pod, we just kind of talk about ⁓ the story behind the brand. Yep. ⁓ how it speaker-1: And then again for the flood. speaker-0: began and then, you know, the ups and downs of the space. So I guess, you know, without delaying it and stuff like that and keeping you from the show floor, even though there's only a couple hours left in the show. ⁓ kind of just tell us about Rip Stop by the Roll, how it began and then what it is that Rip Stop by the Roll is. speaker-1: We design and distribute technical materials and ⁓ I mean that very broadly as in we work with everyone from some of the bigger companies that are here at Switch Bank helping them design extremely specific applications for their ⁓ with custom materials all the way down to DIYers. And the cliche that we use is one to one million yards because even for the businesses that can be extremely valuable. Yeah. ⁓ sometimes you don't want fifty thousand yards of something or even two thousand yards. Yeah. You want to be able to prototype with one to three to five yards of nothing. And a lot of companies that are here, it's one of my favorite part about the outdoor industry is that a lot of original founders are still making prototypes and are extremely involved in the production of their first pieces. Yeah. And that's a big part of where we come in too, is finding things even to prototype with can be extremely difficult, especially the same high quality, high tech fibers and fabrics that you want that you see like ⁓ dynama material and ultra materials and some of those things. And that's where we come in. The other part of that is ⁓ like I said, the custom development side. It Oftentimes when we produce things, ⁓ if you're going to a sew shop, whether it's overseas or domestically, yeah, you get handed kind of the the the fabric book. Oftentimes they'll say, Hey, what materials and finishings do you want? And you are in some ways you're hand fed the things that they want you to have. And although there's absolutely nothing wrong with those if you need a certain application, especially in the outdoor world, you can end up with fibers and fabrics that are not really optimized for what you want them to do. It's what is given to you. Yeah. And that's where we've come in is try give people effectively the same access to the high performance materials the biggest brands have all the way down to the the smaller companies, ⁓ but also anyone in between. If as long as you if you don't have the person to say, Hey, we want this fiber composition, this finish, this fabric, ⁓ this weave type, then you maybe you could be missing out. speaker-0: Yeah. Okay, so go back a little bit to Ripstop and how it just where was where did the idea come from for Ripstop? speaker-1: Yeah, it came from Kyle's attic. So Kyle Baker's our our founder and CEO. His dad was really into hammock camping and would go to what they call hangs, which is a a funny word to say sometimes. It doesn't sound appropriate. But they go to these hangs and ⁓ hang out, they hang hammocks, they see and hammock camping is fantastic. If you're not into it, then you've got to look it up. It's the most invested yeah, group of people in camping. Like there's the ultralighters, but then there's hammock people that are a million times you're into the weed of the technicalities of that thing. So Kyle's dad was big into hammock camping and his brother started sewing their own hammocks. That is immediately where they found it's really hard to find high quality fibers or in fabric. Yeah. A lot of us have laid in cheap hammocks. I feel like you're laying in a trash bag or it's just kind of feels very plasticky. We're all pretty familiar with that feeling. Finding good, and they realize they don't you don't have to lay in a trash bag, you can find good fabric. So ⁓ about 12 years ago, ⁓ Kyle came back from college. He's hanging out with his brother, and his brother was sewing these hammocks, got in conversation. What are you doing? Why are you doing this? How's this going? How do find your fabrics? And ⁓ end up buying a bunch of rolls of fabric, hosted on an old thing. If you were familiar with hammock forms, then you're no you're an ODE, you know it's real. ⁓ hammock forms and people were eating up that fabric. Yeah. That's when Kyle realized some people want fabrics out of us out there. ⁓ and in a a very cliche sense, it has just risen from there. Whereas ⁓ we started with hammock fabrics, now we have over like four hundred SKUs of different materials. ⁓ we design our signature line, we distribute for expact and dynema, ⁓ as well as designing new fabrics. Pretty much every couple of months. speaker-0: So what year was were you guys established in then or twenty fourteen okay. Okay, cool. So I ⁓ I met you guys the first time I met you was at trail days a few months ago and you guys were crazy busy. And the more I meet a bunch of through hikers and stuff like that, I I meet them and then I learn that, you know, you're on the trail, your head is just going all over the place, you've got time to think, and it seems like there's a lot of speaker-1: ⁓ twenty fourteen. speaker-0: make your own gear people out there and stuff like that. Do you find that the people that you supply the materials to and I I 'cause there's a couple of people who had on the pod that had that get their material from you. Yep. And they might they're in their garage literally making their their stuff. And it's awesome quality stuff and they kind of go with whatever sometimes you guys have versus they might have to wait for a certain material. But but they started doing it that kind of way, like just a thought and an idea. Do you find that those people stay with you guys for a long time once they start getting small orders from you, even though they could probably go somewhere else, you guys seem to be able to supply and give a lot of variety, like you said, and push them in the right direction. It's like when I used to work at Apple, it would be like I I can't I don't tell people what they need. I tell them what I don't tell them what they want. I tell them what they need. Right? It seems like you guys are helping them. Find what they need instead of the other people are just telling them what they want so they can sell that material to them or something like that. speaker-1: We are we are changing how people are seeing how fabrics are are made. Yeah. Why it's in important to think about it. A lot of people look at us like, well, you don't you don't make it in Durham, so how how involved can you be? Yeah. And we're very much changing the picture of how fabric can be developed and your relationship with the fabric as a brand. ⁓ the biggest companies in the world, your your Patagonias, your North Face, ⁓ who we've we've also talked to ⁓ in our brand. They have people, they can spend the money to send a whole team of people to Vietnam, yeah, to Korea to to talk all those details out. And unless you have that size, it can be difficult to send a team over there to make all that happen. And that's where we come in. It's a of people don't think that there are people domestically that can help source those fabrics that have connections with the production facilities that can do creative weave types and denn string types. And that picture has been hard to break down. It's not something a lot of people know is an option or even think about what we do. Because we started in the DIY space, people think of us maybe like a Joanne, right? Where like, ⁓ yeah, fabrics are well for little people for little for you know yeah, little guys. ⁓ and we do, we totally have that for yeah. But that is really a pretty small portion of it. ⁓ because you know, it takes 10,000 DIYers to use the same amount of fabric that one company does. Yeah. ⁓ and the companies that do work with us, they do stay with us. You have to direct the answer to that. Yeah. Once you have this connection of under having people to talk to about fabric supply. Where to get it? Why to get it to have someone run interference for you on QC ⁓ to help with the the weaving flaws that happen. ⁓ people do stay with us 'cause they realize like, ⁓ this is this is saving me a ton of money, saving me a ton of time. And really the hassle of having to run out of your trade show and realizing there's a weaving flaw at my production family now. How do I do this? That's where we would also help. speaker-0: So doing it the way that you guys do it then are there I'm sure you've had some cool wins with it, but I'm sure you've had some like, ⁓ crap, this is this sucks because you're doing it different than everybody else does. So like what are some like not warnings, but like like what are some like ⁓ crap, I don't I this sucked back in the day or this happened that like I'm sure you got tons of stuff. 'Cause when I talk to a lot of people who make their own ⁓ not not make their own gear, but you know, companies that make their their own products. ⁓ they have material defects sometimes or it's a sewing defect or something and now they're out of that material or something like so like what is like some crazy ⁓ crap moments for you guys? ⁓ man. And some wins. So we don't wanna just go down like, ⁓ this sucks. Life sucks. But like what what were some great wins from that? speaker-1: They're so dependent on the company and the fabric. I mean, there have been times ⁓ so ⁓ I guess the first thing comes to mind is last year we took a trip to our ⁓ our production partners. And we have ⁓ partners in in Korea, in China and other and companies, but we were in China and we went to our our production partner. They they were really funny. They hung up this banner that said rift up a little China branch. And it felt like an episode of From The Office, you know, where it was like, It is your birthday. Yeah. It felt like that kind of sign where it's like China branch. speaker-0: Without throwing someone under the bus, right? speaker-1: ⁓ amazing people. ⁓ we had an amazing time, but yeah, show up and they were really excited to show us this new ⁓ fabric we call Venom 200 HPU. It's like this new ⁓ super high-tech fabric, but it feels like a traditional pack cloth, okay, which is kind of unique. ⁓ if you're used to like the ultras of the Dynamo composite fabrics, they're really crinkly, they're really loud, and we made this one to feel like an old school pack cloth, but same level. Yeah. ⁓ it's kind of the only one like it. Yeah, it's really neat. Anyway, we are gonna go see that, and this is the first time we were seeing that material. in person, been working on this development for at that point, like a year and a half, maybe. Yeah. And we show up and on the weaving machine, which these really huge machines where the the warp and the wef fibers are getting ⁓ kind of chunked together. Yeah. Not the technical term, but very being ⁓ right? They're getting pr pressed together and woven into this material. And we show up and it just looks like a bird's nest. Like it's just yeah. ⁓ like a bird's nest is the best thing I can think of. If you've ever sewn you get the nesting on the bottom. like that, or if you just ⁓ like shred a carpet apart and like construction. Imagine that. Okay. And like this is like the material we're working on for a year and a half. ⁓ man. And it's just like fibers and yeah and strings and yarns just sticking out everywhere. And we're all just kind of staring at it and looking at each other. We're like okay. Let's leave now. ⁓ so that's kind of the close that branch. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's kind of the warning sign is that we yeah when we initially started design this fabric. They were like, we don't know if we can do this. Yeah. And it takes a lot of pressing ⁓ for the production partners, which is why we're here to be that voice to say, This can be done. You can do this. We can weave it this way. Like we'll get the fibers. ⁓ and now veterinally we have ⁓ we're sending that material to a company right now to make it into the first line of packs that are made of that material. ⁓ And that's the win, is that we're like we're sending thousands of yards to them right now to be ⁓ the first to hunt an ultra hunting pack that we made in out of this our custom of material that's gonna be awesome to show all because it's it's silent and it's not shining, it's not clinkly and it has incredible four-blown X metrics. And ⁓ but like it started by looking at the biggest machine, like all this yeah excitement built up of a seventeen hour flight and a four hour drive, and you're like, ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. It's all yeah, it's a nest. Yeah, this is not gonna work. speaker-0: It's it's always interesting to 'cause I think for a lot of people when they first come up with an idea, ⁓ if they're you know a small brand and they're like, ⁓ I need material, they think that one, they have to buy a ton of material, but they also don't think they can have a voice in the type of material they're looking for 'cause they're too small. Yeah. Right. And so I feel like you guys take that and go like, Hey, we can kind of be that voice 'cause it also benefits you. And you're like, Hey, that's a great idea. Let's see if we can help get that material made. Yeah. It might take a while. Right? Because it's just like, you know, anything else. You go through a thousand renditions of something to finally get the final product. And it's always great to know that people can go that route and have some confidence in getting something that's gonna make their their product. And then in the end you guys can also have that material. So, you know, if people are looking at creating a product, ⁓ or they have an a new idea in their line, like what is the what is the process? Do they just come to you and be like, Hey, I have an idea? for a material or is it hey, I just need this material and you're like, Well we don't have that but maybe we can speaker-1: What we like to start with is applications. What do you what is your product? What do you need it to do? And what do you what are your pain points with current fabric? Most people that have made anything, ⁓ they will have some gripe, and this is extremely natural, but also a a soft good designer. ⁓ every fabric that you choose is going to have a version of a trade off. Well, well, I love it, but this I love this piece about it, but I didn't like this part. ⁓ but it all starts from the application level to understand how do we get how do we design something that matches the final performance that you want it to have. ⁓ So starting with the having a product, knowing what you want it to do and what you don't want it to do, right? There's not but there's not one material that can do everything because it's not ⁓ how physics works put out you know to like have chemistry and things. ⁓ so understanding what it is you want it to do and then starting from that level. It's also why the DIY side really actually helps push the boundaries. ⁓ because we do a lot of our custom development before it may be needed by a Company. Yeah. ⁓ we're always looking at what trends are happening in Fabrice, but also what's currently missing and then developing that ourselves. Yeah. ⁓ because oftentimes companies will not know what they need until they see it and they realize you have this material, this is awesome. How did you know? ⁓ it's because it's our jobs. Yeah, it's our job to, I mean, Carter, our senior product manager. ⁓ this is kind of a fun anecdote. Every backpack I like, I'll send to him. He goes, Yep, I already saw that it's this, this, it's these materials. This is why it's independent, this is what you should like look out for. Because it's his job to be extremely aware of every product out there, every material that's out there to say, this is why we may want that, this is why we may not want that, this is the benefit, the pros, the cons based on the fiber composition, things like that. ⁓ but it's also why we are developing so many signature lines. Yeah. ⁓ which has been a fun challenge for me on the marketing side because it we're not the biggest name. ⁓ and convincing somebody why they should use this new material they never heard of before can be a hard sell. ⁓ but also we have to kind of try those developments on the back end yeah to be able to have them accessible. So when a company says, Hey, we want this, we're like, Cool, already got it, here's several yards so you can test it right away. speaker-0: So do you find like are you guys pretty busy to the point where there's a wait list or is it easy for people to come I guess if you have stuff in stock, right? It's it's easy. But ⁓ if I'm like, hey, I have this idea for a bag, or I have an idea for a a s a fanny packs, right? Can I be like, can you just tell me, hey, I think this is the best material for that? For someone who's like ⁓ like me, I'm an idiot. I'm like, I don't I I have an idea for something, but I have no idea what material. Yeah, to use. speaker-1: Absolutely. So the we're extremely involved from top down. The CEO is still involved in conversations about what material you may want to choose if it's if you're a a company. Okay. Right. ⁓ you'll get me if you message Instagram right now. Yeah. ⁓ so if you like you could message the Instagram account right now as a company or a maker and just say, I would like to make an ultralight backpack. ⁓ price is the most, you know, I will I need this to be budget friendly and I'll give you a list of three materials that are budget friendly that are great pack fabrics, ⁓ that will probably come in a few different colors for you, right? Just because people give them color references. And that's a big part of what we do because that's never been an option for other people. If you get the cheapest fabrics that you can touch and feel at a a fabric store if you still have one near you, which you probably don't know that Joe enclosed. Yeah. Or ⁓ you can be a company that has all the access and you're gonna go but you're gonna get no feedback and no interaction. Yeah. Or you're gonna get probably strange communication at bad times of day that you can't you never get to talk to somebody. ⁓ but yeah, very much any product that you could want if you message us, then either it's going to be me, the CEO or our wholesale rep or the senior product manager directly having feet ⁓ feedback or input on what products you will probably want that I've been tested on thousands of packs on. Yeah. speaker-0: You're a wealth of knowledge, bro. Like I I'm sitting here trying to make mental notes of everything, going, Okay, maybe I should make a bag now, 'cause basically I just tell you what to do and then you can just make it for me. But then I gotta market it and then I gotta sell it and then I gotta do the all the all the other things. speaker-1: Would say one of my and I'm sorry to interrupt. No, go for it. I think the thing that I've learned most because I I so I sewed just before I started because I wanted to I I I wanted to say I sewed on the interview and I didn't I wasn't going to lie, right? I was like, let me sew some. Yeah. ⁓ and now I have my own brand. Yeah. That's the rabbit hole that I've that dough down because what I realized is fabric is everywhere. Yeah. That that's the thing that I've taken, I think, from this job more than anything else, is understanding and appreciating how Like the some of the first decisions we make every day are based on the fabric that we put on our body. Right. When we go to bed, we're jumping into our bed that is fabric, right? That you have sheets, it's lining your mattress. There are so many fabric decisions that we make and understanding and I don't know that much compared to fiber scientists. I don't know compared that much compared to Carter and Kyle companies. ⁓ but what I do know little like the little that I do know makes me appreciate so much more, which is why now I started my own brand because I'm like, well, I really want my bag to work this way and love this fabric and I I want it to function and feel like this. Yeah. ⁓ and just taking just dipping my toe into the deep world of fabric not only has been exciting, but also very insightful 'cause I just appreciate what's around me more. Like the clothes I choose. Yeah. ⁓ the things that I make now are all more intentional decisions. Yeah. speaker-0: That's it'd be interesting to see how your brain works, you know, when you're in a material space, 'cause you probably go like when I go to the movies, 'cause I used to do a lot of video I mean, I still do video and short of that, but I'll I'll go and I'll pick apart a movie and my wife's like, Can you just shut up and watch the movie? And like, no, but I'm like, Yes, how'd they film that and how they do this? And so you're like, ⁓ I wonder what this shoe material is made of. ⁓ wonder what this is made of. ⁓ this feels like this. Well, this is probably gonna last this long or whatever. ⁓ so you know, being in the outdoor space, right, do you how do you still stay connected? to the outdoors 'cause you guys seem like you're so busy all the time. I know you're at, you know, I saw your trail days, I'm sure you're at a bunch of other stuff, the conferences and stuff like that. So in the outdoor space you can kind of get disconnected sometimes. So how do you or how do the does the team do anything to like stay connected to the outdoors? speaker-1: It starts with the people for us that we have people that are super involved in the outdoor space. I mean, Lance, ⁓ mentioning pretty much everybody in the company because we're small. There's yeah, less than twenty people at our company. ⁓ and we do all of our own fulfillment. So ⁓ you met everybody pretty much this week and switchback that's in the office and the other half are are sending the orders. Yeah. You have to get all those orders out. But the our people are really involved. Lance hiked the AT. He's at Ultra Hiker kind of naturally. So he's you know, he's tried all the different tents that he likes in his own. He's tried his packs. ⁓ Carter's also an ultralight hiker and ultralight hammocker. Yeah. ⁓ he's worked with countless companies on designs for naturally insulated hammocks and and you know embedded things. I know how I have my own brain. I'm a runner, climber, cyclist, yeah. ⁓ kind of a Swiss Army knife that's good at nothing but loves everything. Yeah. ⁓ it's just what we do. I mean, Carter and I will send stuff back and forth to each other because it's what we're interested in outside of this. ⁓ so that's what it is for us. I mean, as a a climber, we This is what we're gonna do spend our personal time on. Yeah. So learning about the current products isn't it is work and we have to separate that for our own health and well being. Yeah. But it's what we're interested in anyway. So we don't have to force it too much. speaker-0: Yeah. Well it's good to to hear that you guys are outdoors people 'cause there are you know, there's always companies out there that they have a product and they're really not into yeah the space that they're in. And it's and you you can still be successful in in a space that you're not in. So you're gonna be a lot more successful and people are gonna have a lot more you're gonna have a lot more credit to you if you're like, ⁓ like I hiked A T. Yeah. And so I know a lot about material. I'm not just like spitting out numbers because I read them on a piece of paper. I literally sat in the rain and the rain didn't come through. Yeah. So and and this packed light, so I know this is gonna work for me. So speaker-1: That's a huge difference too. Like everyone wants to see a spec sheet, which is amazing. And looking at the exact the hydrostatic head of the material is awesome. And they're important to have. But also there's an enormous difference between ⁓ how something performs in a lab and how it performs in real life. There's obviously a connection to that. Like the like rain is not gonna penetrate ⁓ you know, a fabric that has a certain testing, but how that rain rolls off, how the material stretches when it is like the way the rain is rolling off, how it handles in the wind. Like there's a lot of pieces that you can't measure otherwise. Yeah. ⁓ and that's plus I just think from a as the marking person is the the best thing I can speak to. ⁓ I I'm not I can't mark it stuff that I don't care about. Yeah. Like I can't go and fake it. Like whether it's ⁓ like moral or not, I'm like I wouldn't it isn't for me, but also like I can't I just couldn't I wouldn't be stoked by getting to work if it was some random thing. speaker-0: So do you have guys ever had materials that you're like, we need to discontinue this because it's just not working? 'Cause I can sell it and make money on it, but it's really just we don't believe in the the fabric because it's just, you know, I'm sure it comes and goes as the industry changes through the years. speaker-1: Yeah. We haven't had a fabric like that in that instance where ⁓ like we don't feel good about it yet. We've pivoted our fabrics and moved like all like C zero D W R. ⁓ like we've changed and that's I mean, we kind of call them levers. ⁓ like if you take the base material, you have these different levers or like these buttons and that's like an organ. Like you have all these like stops you can pull and push in based on if you want this amount of P like a poly ⁓ urethane coating or poly ether ⁓ urethane coating like You can do all these different things and we've changed that. So like C Zero W D W Rs on all of our like new line of fabrics ⁓ for you know the Pass and Fiverr chemical yeah ⁓ campaigns and things like that. ⁓ so we've altered them. ⁓ but for the most part, fat like we haven't had one that's been just the worst thing ever that we had to pull. We've definitely deboarded colors, you know, certain yeah colors we brought on years ago. I'm trying to like hot pink is one is just funny. Like a lot of people like, ⁓ like please bring more pink colors on. And ⁓ we always joke that we bring on other colors just for black to be the top symbol. Yeah. 'Cause that's always what it is. Like the black is always the number one seller, which is funny because everyone's like, ⁓ like those should really cool in this color. Yeah. ⁓ and then like five yard sell. Yeah. speaker-0: No, I I saw like everybody's come out with like a hot pink yeah item now this past year. speaker-1: It does do a thing this year. ⁓ maybe we're we were ⁓ one year early on the D board. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, I was like, hot pink and I I'm I'm saying that and I even have like a it's not hot pink, but it's like a I guess peach kind of color but on my shoes. ⁓ but do you guys how far ahead of you are you guys in the trends? Are you guys looking at trends or are your clients that are asking for stuff looking for trends or is it a combo of the two? speaker-1: Is the vibe. Combination for sure. So we ⁓ we'll do custom developments with with companies that with colors and whatnot that we will that we won't have based on their own research. ⁓ but yeah, we spent a lot of time this week alone talking about color trends. A couple companies were like, hey, what we can add a couple of seasons away. What colors do you do you all see just to compare notes? Yeah. Because it does feel like one of the harder things to nail. It feels really subjective. Yeah. Some people nail it very frequently, and obviously they have ⁓ they're finding the corner. Yeah. ⁓ but it's a lot of Just studying what's around. Yeah. And then a little bit of intuition. Yeah. ⁓ we're coming up. One of my favorite fabrics is our 210D venom. It's like a basic grid stop material. ⁓ it's not basic in the way that we made it, but it's basic in terms of like everyone's see, but like, ⁓ yeah, I've seen something like that before. And we're coming out with four new colors, and we ended up on ⁓ dust, brick, coyote, and marigold. Okay. ⁓ the reason I say all of that is like we were coming with these new colors. We wanted to warm. Color palette. We had a cooler one, like a green, blue, ⁓ orange. Like we kind of had these cool colors where we wanted to go for a warm. And when we were talking about like what like what do we see, but also what do we think people want? And brick is one of those colors that like we see this natural trend happening right now, ⁓ like a natural tone, right? People want like these neutral, earthy pieces, but they want something that like stands out above just like creams. Yeah. Which is funny for some of us because like I'm a pretty neutral colored presser. Yeah. Like I like a neutral tone. Yeah. ⁓ so sometimes hard for me to think outside the box. But I I'm I'm optimistic as walking around the show today. I'm like, I I think these are gonna be good. Yeah. Like the like the brick red I've seen some other examples of. The marigold like a huge like pop of color. Yeah, but still be on a speaker-0: Too. I I love that color. And I'm like ex So I shot wedding I always say this on the pod, but I've shot weddings for years and stuff like that. So every year they come and they say the pan tone of the year is this. Always. And then every bride has and they just follow the trend and I get it. Yeah, right. And so I've gotta like I usually ask the questions on the colors. So I kind of now know a lot about colours and palettes 'cause it really works when I take pictures. Sure. Those colors really can be punchy and work. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: And it's sometimes really hard when the the trend is like really neutral hidden tones, trying to make those clothing or those things pop with pictures. So when I had like the nice marigold colors and those those colors kind of, I like, Yes, I love a color pop because in the mountains it's not it's not overly punchy, no. But it just it speaker-1: It looks perfect contrast. Like the color. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it. I always tell people when they're like talking about like design theories, like always add a third color. Like a lot of people start with two. Yeah. ⁓ I want like these two blends. Yeah. But like a third as like an accent is always like the perfect way to round it out to like bring a full palette without just feeling like a binary, like everything is either black or white. Yeah. It's like, yeah, but that blue makes it like a cool thing. You know, like always add a third thing. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. So I guess switching gears a little bit, kind of ⁓ from your perspective, where are some of the craziest things you guys have seen your product being used? 'Cause I you know, I'm sure people always think it's just backpacks, but I'm sure you people have made some ⁓ interesting products, right, out of your stuff that you're like, ⁓ I never even thought they could make it out with that. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ immediate off the top of my head, we were ⁓ Lance and I were just talking about somebody that makes ⁓ parachutes. So like parachute materials. Okay. Like it it makes sense, but I also I make I've made hundreds of items. I made a hundred and thirty-three things last year and I kept track one year just to see what it would like what numbers it would hit. ⁓ I sew a lot, all that to say. Yeah. I trust my sewing. Yeah. I would never parachute off something that I sew. ⁓ so that blows my mind. ⁓ we've had a bunch of like wing suits. speaker-0: Okay. ⁓ that's cool. speaker-1: Cool. Which is so also terrifying. ⁓ yeah. But parachutes, wingsuits, ⁓ gliders. Okay. ⁓ like both gliders like hang gliders, but then also like windsurfing. Okay. ⁓ sails, I guess. ⁓ speaker-0: That's interesting because I always I think we always just think tents and backpacks. Yep. Right? But totally like you said, material's everywhere. Yeah. If the material fits the the job, yeah. It makes sense to to use it for that job. speaker-1: Yeah, those are some of the most, I think, epic or like rad applications I've heard of. You're like, that's crazy. There's also so many random obscure ones. Like a sign company's bought about like Billboard Company just bought like, I don't know, 10,000 yards or something from us. ⁓ it made sense once I like talked to Lance like, okay, I get that out. It's not something that I would have initially thought about. It's like there's some obscure applications too. I'm like, ⁓ yeah, for sure. ⁓ we've had like I don't know how to to say this in the the best way, like a male lingerie company. I like Mesh from us. We're like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ it was not the same effect if you know what I mean. Like you're like, yeah, for sure. That's totally Asian. Yeah. Okay. ⁓ there's some like obscure what's too you're like that's speaker-0: Yeah, I never get like Yeah, go for it. That's crazy. Okay, so ⁓ if somebody is you know, they have a company and stuff like that, and you know, what could you say to people who are starting a brand or they have a brand and they're looking for materials, what are you looking for from companies when they come to you initially? speaker-1: Yeah. I was gonna say anything. It's like the worst podcast answer ever. As someone who also does the podcast and a one-word answer. ⁓ yeah, you have a product. Yeah. If you have a product and you need material, that's what we look at. And it really is that ⁓ I'll try to be more specific for the sake of your butt ⁓ because there are so many applications like it from like ⁓ completely unthought of ⁓ apparel applications to signage to like parachutes and everything in between. ⁓ speaker-0: Very vague answer. Good. speaker-1: If you need a product with a material, then we can help you in some way. Yeah. Whether you're looking for like five yards or you do want to do a custom odd of 10,000. ⁓ and you know, what we do with you in there will change based on what you're looking for. But it really is like, do you have a product and do you know what you need? Then we're happy to help you do that. Yeah. ⁓ as long as your product uses fabric of any kind, yeah, we can do that. ⁓ if you want to, if you want to be the if you want to be removed removed fully and you want us to work directly with your factory, to work with your production partners to help. ⁓ get the material to you so that you can sew into your final product. Cool. You can be hands off. Yeah. We'll manage the communication. We'll make sure QC is there. Yeah. We'll do those things too. If you want ⁓ to be extremely involved. You want to come to Durham and do our shop, check out materials, get hands on everything. ⁓ sew with it in this maker space a little bit. Yeah. Then you can do that too. speaker-0: That's cool. So you guys have a maker space there as well? speaker-1: We do. Yeah. It's ⁓ it it's one of my favorite offices in the building. ⁓ I built two rooms there when he moved into our new warehouse. ⁓ again, small company, yeah, twenty people, no much space. When it came to ⁓ we moved into this new forty thousand square foot warehouse a couple of years ago and there were two rooms that were miners, the the the content space and the maker space, and they're right next to each other. Yeah. ⁓ so Isaac and I hung every panel in the content room for where our podcast and our videos are shot, and then next to that is our maker space where we have our our sewing machines, our huge cutting table, things like that. But ⁓ We we like to say buy makers for makers because the company not only are we outdoor related, but also all of us are makers. Like Heil started sewing with his brother when they started the Appalachia hammocks, their hammock company. ⁓ Carter's an original hammock forms guy. He has made hundreds of hammock and design all his things. I I do the same. ⁓ we're still makers at heart. When we get a fabric in, like I'm typically sewing the very first prototype of the material because I want to see how it feels, how it reacts. What's it like when I seam seal? What's it like when I do a French feld seam? Like I want to do everything with this material so that when I'm talking somebody. when I'm creating the content and making a podcast about that fabric, I can speak earnestly about it, but then also like understand those applications, which is why it's also that answer is so that it's not like I can't be like, well, talk to this guy about how this fabric is. If I mean that's why trail trail days is so fun. He's just somebody will some guy came up to me at trail days. He's like, my mom made this and he like swings out this ⁓ this summer weight backpacking quilt. And he's like, I bought fabrics from you. I don't want to sew but my mom does. So we pop this thing open. And I ha and like this is the thing that I made and it's so much fun 'cause like we still care about that as much as I wanna go talk to ⁓ like a fifty million dollar company here about their fabrics, you know? speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's cool. You guys have the passion behind it instead of just some factory that just whatever. It's like, no, we you understand it and everything else. You know, I've never tried hammock camping. I have a b a bit of a bad back and so I that's always my excuse for not trying it because but I know like you're not sleeping like a banana. No. You're sleeping on like this angle and I I've I've talked to many hammock people that have been like, Well, you haven't tried it and stuff? I'm I have all the hammock stuff at home to do it. Okay. And I always just take it to like the woods when we go camping and the kids will just swing in it and stuff. But I'm like, I'll I'll try it one day. No, but it's it's great to hear that you guys are genuinely. And that's yeah, what I like having on the pod is people who are genuinely passionate about the company. I don't think we're ever gonna have anybody on it's like, ⁓ I have a tent company. Have you ever been camping? Nope. Yeah, that'd be wild. So what do we talk about that? speaker-1: I think especially in ⁓ the age that we're in with technology, AI, et cetera. I don't mean this for to to be like any sort of soapbox or anything, but I think people are really excited about companies that are fully involved with a story and personality. and that's kind of a aside from ⁓ like politics or company development. It's just people want to work with good people that they feel like understand what they're doing because it also helps their business. ⁓ And yeah, we're very involved in that. I mean, we again it's a small company. I'm in meetings daily with the CEO, ate dinner last night or the same Airbnb. Like there's only so many of us, but we're we are trying to have the largest impact we can in terms of bringing the best fabrics to people so that it's not just the world's biggest companies dominating with all the cool stuff and everybody else has like leftover polyester crap. speaker-0: Yeah. Well that's good. That's what's good about this trade show and other trade shows is like you meet people that you've maybe only had phone calls with, you know, even if you've had a Zoom and everything. Yeah. And it's like you know that they're probably good people, but when you can actually sit there and really read their body language and talk to them and then you go, Okay, I can be do business with person. There's I'm sure you've met people before you're like, ⁓ my gosh, I don't want to do business with this person, you know, I will take your money. speaker-1: What's speaker-0: But maybe I do say no because I know this person might be a headache and stuff like that. And that's very usually few and far between. It's very rare, those kind of people. But like I've talked to so many people and they're like, man, it's so great talking to you, or even just meeting you in person. Yeah. ⁓ 'cause you were at Trail Days, right? And I don't think we met. I just I was like, they're so busy with everybody just like geeking out over Ripstop by the roll that I was like, I'll leave them alone. ⁓ And then meeting earlier yesterday and then today, it's like it's like okay, these are good guys. Yeah, I totally work with them. They're they seem honest and genuine because you can read so much and this is just a rant right now, but like I you can read speaker-1: Appreciate it. I like what you're saying. speaker-0: But you can r you know, you can read so much into somebody. And so if you have a company out there or if you're thinking about working with another company, you definitely have to you know, I've always learned that meeting them face to face. Even with when I was in doing, you know, forty, fifty weddings a year, I would meet with every bride before I booked with them. Because I was like, Okay, and I've turned down two weddings out of those weddings because I realized when I met them, I was like, you know what? I this This person's gonna be a nightmare. They're they're too demanding. They're they're just gonna be a nightmare after I book them. And so like, you know what? I I as much as I need money to pay my bills, this is gonna turn into a huge headache. ⁓ yeah. And then I had yeah, and then I had someone else that needed the same date anyways. And so it ended up working out. Yeah. ⁓ so it's great. I mean, yours are good people and everything else. So maybe just since we're at the trade show before we kind of kind of cut off, is What are some things that you guys look for when, you know, you're going to a trade show and stuff like that? 'Cause I think a lot of people that are listening probably haven't gone to a trade show. Sure. And they're like, okay, what am I in in some every trade show is different. Sometimes it's an industry one versus consumers are coming and sometimes it's both. Yep. You know, so what are you guys looking for or what do you think most people are looking for at a trade show when you come as a business? speaker-1: I think most people at this this show specifically, ⁓ I think most people well at any trade show, I they're looking for connection. I guess from like a philosophical level level. I think they're looking for connection and ⁓ to not be that awkward person sitting in the corner being like, What do I do? Yeah. ⁓ for us, we're looking for any company with fabrics. Yeah. Like at trail days, trail days we go because there's DIYers, yeah. And we like to we feature other cottage companies at trail days. Like at our booth, we we pay for them to to come and like We had Ryan Campbell from The Wandering Goat. He makes the coolest packs out of like a hundred square foot ⁓ bedroom in his house. But they look like they're coming off the production floor in Vietnam. It's so awesome. He's a r ⁓ an amazing guy. Yeah. ⁓ so we had like the h like we like to feature those people at trail days. So there we're looking to meet with makers and just make connections with our customers, especially at a place like a trail days event where there's so many cottage companies and these niche outdoor brands. Yeah, we show up for them there because that's one of the only places we can all get together from all over the country. At a place like this, This was our first event too. Yeah. ⁓ our first event of this side. Yeah, at least. And ⁓ for us, we w showed up really just to test it out. And we COVID was amazing for us, ⁓ on a business level. Yeah. Obviously, everyone struggled, I think, some some version, ⁓ mentally and maybe physically during COVID. ⁓ but our business was booming because everyone was outdoors and at home, which is great for sewing, great for cottage companies. ⁓ but we got really stuck behind the computer. Yeah. ⁓ we were so slammed. We hired like three people in a year, ⁓ It was unbelievable, but it it made us retreat a lot more. Yeah. So for this was kind of somewhat a note to ourselves to get out. Yeah. And ⁓ we didn't know what to expect exactly. We were optimistic. Yeah. ⁓ but earlier I I was personally hyped because I was the I coordinated this event for us. Yeah, ⁓ I kind of made us made us good. And the CEO is like, I think this was good. I think this is worth it. Yeah. And as an employee, I'm like, ⁓ thank God. Yeah. You had so relieved when when the CEO was was stoked because we were able to have not only do we see customers, but we made a lot of connections and people are like, hey. We actually are really struggling with our fabric supply. Like, can you help us? ⁓ and it was reassuring to us. We're like, ⁓ yeah, this is something that people are some people are looking for and don't know where where to look. If you don't go to the functional fabrics, or even if you do go to the functional fabric fairs of the world or if you used to go to OR of the supplier staircase and things like that. ⁓ even that can be overwhelming and don't it doesn't feel like you're having you have a fabric partnership. It kind of feels like you're handed what you get and you kind of you get what you get and you don't have to have more mentality. ⁓ and that's not what we That's very much not what we've been trying to do. I mean a cliche phrase that Kyle used to say to me, he's like, I want to make fabric cool again. Yeah. He was like, Technical fabric is really fun. Like it's interesting to know what it can do. Yeah. And when I'm talking to somebody that's like in a suit or in a button-down and they're just speeding metrics at me, he's like, It's not cool. He's like, it's cool to see what it can do. Yeah. And it's cool to see what can be done. He's like, So let's let's make it interesting and make it ⁓ put personality back into it. Which is why we do so much on social. Like I know ⁓ sadly everyone has seen my face and their ads like, ⁓ I've your ads but sadly I'm like, ⁓ God, not this face. Yeah. ⁓ but we trying to bring some personality back into it. speaker-0: So you had fun at the show, made a lot of good connections and stuff like that. ⁓ I guess before we end, ⁓ if people are looking for ripstop by the roll or they have ideas they wanna spit off on you guys, how would they find ripstop? speaker-1: ⁓ ripset by the roll dot com, rips up by the roll on Instagram. Really the best places. We're extremely active on Instagram. Yeah. I'm there every single day answering virtually every single message myself right now. ⁓ so if you want to chat, go ahead, reach out. ⁓ but also if you're a business and you're looking to start talking about ⁓ sourcing, custom sourcing, or you just want basic, we have a fantastic wholesale program for any business. Email wholesale by the roll dot com. You immediately get ten percent off your orders. ⁓ we make that easy. There's Very clear pricing on the site for bulk if you need to order fifty yards or eighty yards that I let you how much the discount break would be there. ⁓ but then also Lance is our the best account manager. You could ask for he's personally here walking around every one of our customers and saying hi and ⁓ he's extremely responsive. I mean he was on the couch this morning at like five thirty during the tornado so you're responding to stuff because he was away because we woke up for me alarm. But ⁓ the goal is to make it responsive. So you're not getting emails at three AM and only conning people, you know, in in Asian yeah ⁓ time time frames. So ⁓ speaker-0: Okay. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, but that's yeah. Rifsubroller.com at Rif Subroller on Instagram. Can I plug our podcast? Yeah, good. ⁓ if you happen to be a maker, then our podcast, as far as I know, yeah, still the only podcast for makers. Yeah. ⁓ there's a lot of sewing podcasts, ⁓ there's a lot of like outdoor gear podcasts, all amazing. This is kind of the only one in its space where you talk about technical fabrics, making your own gear and just gear design all kinds. So we have ⁓ soft good designers, we have technical fabric designers, we have companies ⁓ but it's very much focused on gear making, sewing, yeah, ⁓ and things like that. But riff stop on the record. ⁓ yeah, it's been fun. speaker-0: On the records? No, it's not that kind of record. speaker-1: It's actually kinda funny to be here with you, Craig, 'cause not only one, do we almost do no in person interviews, but also I'm I've I've been in guests. This is my second time ever. I've done a hundred and fifty one episodes of a podcast. Yeah. But I've never been on the second of it. So it's kinda weird. I like I'm glad I didn't ask you too many questions because in my head I was just like, ⁓ this is what I would ask now. Like, nope, no, don't don't don't start reeling, Craig. speaker-0: That's good. I like to ask the questions and let you talk because I talk way too much. My wife always tells me to shut up. ⁓ all right, so before we say goodbye to everybody, I always like to do the rapid fire round. So I'll just ask you a couple of quick questions. They're kind of one word answers, but you can answer them long if you want. ⁓ but first question I always love asking is your favorite national park? speaker-1: Case. Death Valley. speaker-0: Death Valley. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. I just went there last year. My wife was like, This is crazy. Who would come here? speaker-1: I we almost didn't go. That was my one caveat to that is we almost didn't go. We did like my family did a good small national park tour like ten years ago. And ⁓ that one was cool because we we weren't planning. I was like, I can't be that cool. It looks kinda lame. And we went there and just explored for like the whole day and it was the coolest thing ever because it feels like you're on Mars. But there's so many other beautiful parts like Cascades incredible, Acadia amazing, Smoky Mountains like breathtaking, incredible. But Death Valley was the first one that I was like, Whoa, this feels yes like I'm in Star Wars. Yeah. speaker-0: It's crazy. And they have a race that goes from Yes Death Valley all the way up to Whitney. And I'm just like after I drove that, I like, Who would run this? I'm an alternative and I would never run that. I I'm I w I would try. I would speaker-1: I am kinda interested, I'm not gonna lie, yeah, I probably won't, but I I am curious. You know, I don't like the heat that much, but I'm still curious 'cause Death Valley was awesome. Yeah. speaker-0: Alright, next question. ⁓ favorite we'll go favorite trail snack first. speaker-1: ⁓ it's a candy and ⁓ currently I would probably say Nerd Gummy Collection. Is that the one right now? speaker-0: That's like the top one. Out of like out of every one out of every three people has nerd gum gummy cluster. ⁓ speaker-1: My go to. Let me give a second one then if you don't mind. Because I I don't want to just do like the the basic thing. ⁓ whenever I'm doing long runs, I would like to pack like a small ⁓ tortilla with Nutella. Yeah. They pack really well. They're really flat and it's just nice to have something that's not only high for yeah, corn syrup. Yeah. Which I do love. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I'm not above it. speaker-0: So I do the same thing. I do when I'm on the trail I'll bring a a pack of ⁓ tortillas. Yep. And then Nutella. Yep. And then ⁓ almond butter. Yeah, yeah. And then maybe if I have a banana I'll put it in and it'll be a lot of like it's ⁓ my gosh. Like but you know, sometimes it tastes better on the trail than it does in real life. But that tastes better any time of the day. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Or cookie butter, like is cookie butter in the Totilla. speaker-0: It's time of really hungry now because I haven't had lunch yet. ⁓ so what is the worst trail snack you've ever tried? speaker-1: ⁓ I ⁓ the word specifically it was I think a coconut flavored ⁓ gel. I was doing a long run with my buddy and he loves the gel things. I particularly have a distaste for their texture, yeah and consistency. And the coconut one. Everything about it, color, texture, it was hot. ⁓ yeah, that I I've I've never really thrown up on a run before and that was the close I've ever come to just like I'm quitting this run because of this gel. Yeah. speaker-0: I hate gels. They're just after I've tried so many other ones now, 'cause I thought gels were the only thing for the longer time and I was like, there are a few, but I just don't like how they sit in my throat. Okay, so ⁓ let's speaker-1: No, absolutely. Let's let's go to moldy, ⁓ moldy ⁓ granola bar. That was bad. ⁓ that just made sense. Like I like, Of it is. It's old. It's moldy. Yeah. speaker-0: Well, unless you have ⁓ what is it they make like it for insulin? ⁓ like you have diabetes, you eat a moldy. I always choking and tell my kids if you have diabetes you can eat. I know it's not real. You have to process stuff first. ⁓ right, so going business side of it, what the maybe one of the biggest splurges you guys have ever had that you made for your business? speaker-1: ⁓ we have a really, really cool, I think it's Swiss. I think it's Swiss ⁓ cutter. It's like I don't I'm making up this number because I was not a part of the the the receipt. Yeah. Like a half a million dollar ⁓ like continuous feed cutter. ⁓ what it does is that you can load a roll of fabric on. speaker-0: No guess. speaker-1: And then we can cut out like tent panels or tart panels and like continually pull off so that way you have a finished product. We I haven't talked about this yet. I'll small plug. We do cutting and printing so we can print on technical fabrics. You can do like a picture of your dog. You can do a pattern, like we can print that onto a fabric. ⁓ so you have like a really cool pattern, but we also do do cutting so that people can get their their panels cut out to send to the the sewing facility. Okay. ⁓ but yeah, it's this massive cutter that's just yeah, super high-tech and crazy looking and really cool. speaker-0: That's why I that's why I like this podcast 'cause I don't have to spend all the money. I just listen to the stories and go, There's no way I would ever start a business 'cause that is just scary to just go, Okay, I think we need to spend half a million or whatever money on it. Okay. ⁓ speaker-1: There's a tool video on Instagram of that cutter, really just made like two weeks ago. Okay, that's why you should call it. speaker-0: I'll totally I'll totally check it out then. ⁓ let's say ⁓ I'm trying to think it looked like a good question that would kinda go with it, but maybe an app that you guys can't live without for for work. speaker-1: the the boring answer is probably like the shipping app that all of our orders go. ⁓ whatever that's called. Yeah, probably that one. ⁓ 'cause whenever that goes down, it's just absolute disaster. Yeah. ⁓ that one, I would say like the more creative or fun answer for me would be like the landing page builder. Okay. ⁓ 'cause I'm always building custom landing pages based on campaigns or fabrics, or maybe it's ⁓ as simple as like ⁓ we did a blog post or a a landing page like the best bike bag fabrics. ⁓ and just it's pretty easy and simple to whip it together from some photos and let people know and then a couple of weeks later someone's like, ⁓ I made this bike bag and that that that's really fulfilling but also I don't I like the the easy landing pages nowadays. I remember trying to build ⁓ twenty years ago and was pretty awful. speaker-0: All right, next one is ⁓ mountains, desert, coast or water? ⁓ mountains. Mountains, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then off of that one is tent, hammock, or cowboy camping. speaker-1: one time. ⁓ being from the East Coast, never really cowboy camp before. I did technically once, but the the bugs and ⁓ oyster are both completely unbearable here. ⁓ so right now I'm in a big tent kick. I have hammock camped a bunch because my best friend is garter and he has literally 27 hammocks, so I've tried all of his. ⁓ do love hammock camp. Yeah, ⁓ but right now, ⁓ yeah, I have this tarp tent stratuspire li tent. that just feels like an absolute palace. It's enormous. You can spread out at night and there's like pockets on the side and it's dynamo so it's really light. And I brought on that on both backpacking and bikepacking trips over the last handful of months. And that thing just it just makes me happy every time I set it. speaker-0: That's cool. I feel like I l I love tent technology and I hate it because I have a favorite tent that I like to take, but then since I shoot for other companies and stuff. Yes. And they're Hey, can you pick that tent? Or do I need to shoot with this tent 'cause it's gonna photograph better for someone's quilt or something like that. And I'm like, ⁓ but I just wanna go back to this 'cause I just it's like going back after a trip and you go into your own bed at home. I I that I'm most comfortable in that. I can't tell you that. Fair enough, okay. I can't tell you that one. I guess I could. No, I can't tell. But you at speaker-1: Yeah. Wait, what's your favorite tent right speaker-0: My least favorite. That would be bad too. I don't have a I don't have a least favorite tent. I I well I do have a least favorite tent, but it's giant canvas tent that I I try to use with a family and stuff like that. I just don't like the smell of a canvas tent when it gets old. It just smells like my childhood and and and my childhood wasn't that good. So I'm like I don't want to remember my childhood. Yeah, we're going way down the rabbit hole now. Okay, and then ⁓ last question. speaker-1: It's just immediate PTSD. It's awesome. speaker-0: would be ⁓ if you could collaborate with any brand, who would it be and why? speaker-1: ⁓ man, I love that. I'm going to say speaker-0: It's gonna be you guys or the company or yourself, you know, ⁓ this be a great idea. speaker-1: Yeah, okay, I'll answer that that helps. I'll give two different answers, I guess. On a personal level, there's this Japanese designer, I think his name is Tab to Tobuse. Yeah. I do not remember his last name, and I'm I'm not going to insult him by trying to say it. ⁓ but he as a fellow pack designer, I love like running vest style packs. Yeah. ⁓ he just has really clean design aesthetic, amazing lines, ⁓ like aesthetic across the pack with amazing functionality and ⁓ great colorways. He has really neutral, kind of ⁓ like earthy inspired, but also like high tech looking running vests and belts and whatnot that are extremely function forward, which I love. ⁓ so I think his stuff is really Brad. He just ⁓ he just got his packs into a store up in ⁓ New York. Okay. So I think the first time his bags were in America or something like that. So I think he's really cool. Yeah. ⁓ that one as a company I'm gonna say I We have some big companies in terms of like volume. Yeah. ⁓ but not too many big companies ⁓ like a North Face Patagonia. So I'm gonna say probably like ⁓ like an Arctyric. Yeah. Like I when I think about high tech fabrics and very ⁓ design forward companies, Arctyrix is one of the yeah, one of the first people come to mind. So I think for them, like if we could do a partnership, yeah, ⁓ a fabric with them, ⁓ little side by the roll arcteryx material, that would be really fun. Yeah. ⁓ because I think they they normally push the boundaries with materials. And that's also what we like to do. Yeah. speaker-0: Let's go. I mean they're like they're right on the other side of the wall. We'll walk in right afterwards. We'll be like, hey guys, so you can we, you know, that with us. Awesome. Well, Jameson, thank you so much for being on. Thank you for letting Rip Stop and ⁓ your team is awesome. ⁓ meeting everybody today and ⁓ all the best to you guys for the rest of the show today. And guys, thank you so much for listening to the podcast. We can't wait for the next episode to come out. Make sure you share with your friends and everything else. And again, ⁓ awesome just speaker-1: Listen to this podcast. Hey and give it speaker-0: so much. I've never been in person so I was like, what do I do? I know. Usually it's just like a FaceTime and I'm like Do this and I shake the screen the right hit button. Yeah. So awesome. Thanks so much. speaker-1: Wave I do.