Latest / The You Project / #2004 Folate, Paracetamol & Pregnancy - David Gillespie

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#2004 Folate, Paracetamol & Pregnancy - David Gillespie · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Great team. It's you project, David James, Kevin, Patrick Gillspian's
0:04
Speaker 1: here as he is on a semi regular basis. Tiffany
0:07
Speaker 1: and Mildred Malaria Cook is here in the.
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Speaker 2: Malaria Mildred or is that really your name?
0:17
Speaker 1: That's her real No, that's so hurtful. David, Hi, Hi,
0:22
Speaker 1: how are you? I'm fabulous? Thanks? How's your Monday gone?
0:26
Speaker 1: Give us a quick snapshot? Oh, we know you bought
0:28
Speaker 1: because you and I did a potty before. You bought
0:30
Speaker 1: four new tires and you didn't get ripped.
0:33
Speaker 2: Loved him some shining, got out for a stroll.
0:36
Speaker 1: I've had a good monday. You've had a really good monday.
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Speaker 1: We're beautiful. I went down the beach and I put
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Speaker 1: my little toes in the sand, and then I put
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Speaker 1: my little calves, which are not that little, my significant
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Speaker 1: calves in the water in the water. How Good's just
0:51
Speaker 1: getting in salt water a little bit?
0:53
Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, my body was happy. I went and sat
0:56
Speaker 1: in the grass. There's something about connecting with nature. Yeah,
1:02
Speaker 1: I reckon. David Gillespie'd be a big fan of grounding
1:05
Speaker 1: tif you know where you take your shoes and socks
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Speaker 1: off and just get in the dirt and there's that
1:09
Speaker 1: I reckon he'd be all over that. What he's got
1:13
Speaker 1: to say. I don't know, that's bullshit.
1:16
Speaker 2: I looked at it now, I know. I mean, you
1:18
Speaker 2: know there's die Hard, the die Hard thing, you know
1:20
Speaker 2: where you at the start of die Hard where the
1:22
Speaker 2: guy sitting next to him on the plane says to
1:25
Speaker 2: you know, when you get off the plane, scrunch your toes.
1:28
Speaker 2: You're going to take your shoes off and scrunch your
1:29
Speaker 2: toes in the carpet. Make you feel you know, make
1:32
Speaker 2: you feel good.
1:34
Speaker 1: What about those in that same kind of vein? I
1:36
Speaker 1: shouldn't say what I'm about to say everyone, So if
1:39
Speaker 1: you don't want to be offended, just come back in
1:40
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. You've been warned. What about those people who
1:45
Speaker 1: stick there and facing the sun? You know they I forget,
1:49
Speaker 1: there's some kind of they get that kind of if
1:53
Speaker 1: you've heard of this, haven't you Where people in the
1:55
Speaker 1: morning they stick their bum up facing the sun to
1:58
Speaker 1: get some kind of and the thirty second people are back,
2:01
Speaker 1: you're welcome. I can't say I'm going to be doing
2:05
Speaker 1: that anytime soon, especially in Magpie season.
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Speaker 2: What's it supposed to do for you.
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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know, it's some you know, it's I
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Speaker 1: shouldn't say it's in that group. But there's a bunch
2:18
Speaker 1: of people who, not a few, like quite a lot
2:22
Speaker 1: of people who if maybe you can look up what's
2:24
Speaker 1: see that, I reckon that David Ashbury would do that? Yeah,
2:28
Speaker 1: probably maybe. Well he also David Asbury, who's a world
2:33
Speaker 1: famous biohacker that you probably don't know of or need
2:36
Speaker 1: to know of David. But one of the things he's
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Speaker 1: famous for is recommending people inject their own urine intramuscularly.
2:44
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and many other interesting and curious things.
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Speaker 1: I think he was one of the whether or not
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Speaker 1: that's a good or bad thing, but one of the
2:54
Speaker 1: kind of ten, twelve, fifteen year ago early pioneers, if
2:59
Speaker 1: that's a good thing of what they colloquially call biohacking.
3:04
Speaker 1: But it's gaining I think it's gaining in some places
3:08
Speaker 1: a little bit of credibility because what's his name, doctor
3:11
Speaker 1: Jeff gross Tiff, you know, the one from Las Vegas
3:14
Speaker 1: that we have on ye. I mean he's literally a
3:16
Speaker 1: surgeon and a medical doctor and considers himself a biohacker.
3:20
Speaker 1: So must be getting a little bit of something.
3:22
Speaker 2: Really, I mean, a surgeon is the ultimate biohacker, aren't they.
3:26
Speaker 2: I mean they're getting in there and chopping stuff up.
3:30
Speaker 1: Well, I know another surgeon who he said to me,
3:35
Speaker 1: don't get don't get back surgery unless there is no
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Speaker 1: other option.
3:41
Speaker 2: Look, there's a lot of a lot of stuff, and
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Speaker 2: about the efficacy of a lot of orthopedic surgery, you know,
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Speaker 2: a lot of it seems to fall in the category
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Speaker 2: of doing it to make the surgeon rich and not
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Speaker 2: much else. You know, because the studies on whether or
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Speaker 2: not you know, knee operations and back operations and so on,
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Speaker 2: actually do anything pretty light on the ground.
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Speaker 1: Well. Dr cal Freed, who is a is a sports
4:12
Speaker 1: physician in Melbourne, worked in the AFL system for a
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Speaker 1: very long time. Friend of mine, has been on the
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Speaker 1: show quite a few times. He is absolutely against any
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Speaker 1: surgery unless there's no other option. And of course there
4:25
Speaker 1: are times when surgery is required, of course, but you know,
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Speaker 1: some people have a bit of a dodgyback surgery. It's like, no, no,
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Speaker 1: let's try these other seven things before we get to
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Speaker 1: the surgical option, which is not say, I mean, of course,
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Speaker 1: some surgery is life saving. Of course, we're not saying
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Speaker 1: all surgery is bad or surgeons are bad. We're just
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Speaker 1: saying maybe it should be. Maybe it should move down
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Speaker 1: the list a little bit and we'll particularly for orthopedics.
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Speaker 2: You know it should definitely do research on any orthopedic
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Speaker 2: operation for a chronic disease before you go that way,
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Speaker 2: I would suggest.
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Speaker 1: Now, speaking of all things medical, let me get my
5:01
Speaker 1: little let me get a little my little specs out.
5:03
Speaker 1: So in your substack tip, what are you laughing at?
5:07
Speaker 1: And I look like fucking elma fud when I swapped
5:10
Speaker 1: one pair of glasses for another pair of glasses. I'm
5:13
Speaker 1: old as fuck now, so I don't care the rest
5:15
Speaker 1: of you can make fun of me. You've got to
5:16
Speaker 1: live as long as me first, so you can all
5:18
Speaker 1: get rid of You've got to get to this age.
5:23
Speaker 2: Lucky. You're not sensitive about it though, right.
5:25
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I'm not sensitive at all. Back
5:27
Speaker 1: in therapy for Jumbo and Invisible and Dangerous Overdose is
5:31
Speaker 1: the name of an article that David wrote for that's
5:36
Speaker 1: in substack in his little what's it called to game data?
5:41
Speaker 1: Thank you? Thank you. Every day, millions of Australian women
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Speaker 1: consumer government mandated medication. They don't know, they don't know
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Speaker 1: they're taking. It's in their morning toast, their lunchtime sandwich.
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Speaker 1: They're fortified cereal and they're multi vitamin tablet. This medication,
5:55
Speaker 1: folic acid vitamin B nine was introduced as a public
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Speaker 1: health miracle, simple way to protect unborn babies from devastating
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Speaker 1: birth defects. But a decade later, a startling picture is emerging.
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Speaker 2: Do tell Okay, So let's I want to preface this
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Speaker 2: by if there are any pregnant we're about to be
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Speaker 2: pregnant women listening. There is nothing wrong with taking FOLL
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Speaker 2: eight supplements. It is a undoubtedly a good thing to do.
6:27
Speaker 2: The benefits in preventing spina bifitter and other brain formation
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Speaker 2: or birth defects associated with brain malformation are unequivocal. So
6:39
Speaker 2: I don't want this segment to talk anyone out of that,
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Speaker 2: and I make that really really clear in the piece
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Speaker 2: as well. But there's an unintended consequence of MANDA, and
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Speaker 2: I guess what I'm talking about mostly in this piece
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Speaker 2: is mass medication, which I have a real problem with.
6:57
Speaker 2: And we've talked before about fluoridation and very other things.
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Speaker 2: I'm not against the things that they're supposed to be fixing.
7:06
Speaker 2: I am against mass medicating people without them knowing they're
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Speaker 2: being mass medicated. And we've talked before about some of
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Speaker 2: the other B vitamin's vitamin B six, for example, which
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Speaker 2: is added into magnesium tablets to make them absorbed more easily,
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Speaker 2: but can massively overdose you on vitamin B six in
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Speaker 2: a really dangerous fashion, just because you don't even know
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Speaker 2: you're taking it. You know, people would say I'm not
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Speaker 2: taking out at all, without realizing they're taking ten times
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Speaker 2: the daily dose just by taking magnesium tablets. This falls
7:40
Speaker 2: into that category. So in two thousand and nine, the
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Speaker 2: Australian government mandated the vitamin B nine, or folic acid,
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Speaker 2: be added to all bread sold in Australia, all bread
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Speaker 2: and flour for making bread. So it is added in,
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Speaker 2: and it's added in a very specific level, which is
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Speaker 2: at one hundred and twenty micrograms per hundred grams. The
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Speaker 2: aim there was to prevent foliated deficiency in the population. Now,
8:12
Speaker 2: we've never had a big problem foloid deficiency, but there
8:15
Speaker 2: were some very convincing studies that said that if pregnant
8:19
Speaker 2: women increase their folid intake to up to one thousand
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Speaker 2: micrograms per day. Then there was a significant reduction in
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Speaker 2: the chances of spina biffeter and a bunch of other
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Speaker 2: birth defects associated with the brain and spinal cord occurring. Now,
8:41
Speaker 2: these things are pretty rare anyway, so a significant increase
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Speaker 2: in the probability or decrease in the probability. You don't
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Speaker 2: have to have change much to do that. But it
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Speaker 2: was clear on the evidence that if you increase foliated
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Speaker 2: supplementation during pregnancy you could reduce the rate of spina
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Speaker 2: biffeter and some other conditions equivocal. So the government said, right, well,
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Speaker 2: we're not taking any chances with this. We're going to
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Speaker 2: mandate this in the bread and so we're not going
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Speaker 2: to tell others to be to go and take foloated supplements,
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Speaker 2: although they do that as well. We're just going to
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Speaker 2: make sure if you ignore all health advice and you
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Speaker 2: ignore people telling you to take foloiated supplements and all
9:19
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, and you are pregnant, then you'll
9:23
Speaker 2: be fine. And that's the thing of it. So it
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Speaker 2: happened in two thousand and nine. Great so far the
9:31
Speaker 2: problem is that a very big study has just been released.
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Speaker 2: There's looked at a really interesting scientific experiment, which is
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Speaker 2: normally you can't do experiments on pregnant women. You know, ethics.
9:47
Speaker 2: People have all sorts of problems. You know, I can
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Speaker 2: control group you're going to do something to in another
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Speaker 2: control and another group you're going to not do something to.
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Speaker 2: It's just there's all kinds of ethical problems with that.
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Speaker 2: So it's really tricky. But there was a natural experiment
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Speaker 2: that occurred in Australia in that there was a popular
10:04
Speaker 2: there was a big study of pregnant women that was
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Speaker 2: where they recruited the population before the mandate, and another
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Speaker 2: big study the recruited from the same population after the
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Speaker 2: mandate ten years later. So there was a before two
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Speaker 2: thousand and nine and then ten years later, same group.
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Speaker 2: And so you've got a fantastic experiment there where you
10:27
Speaker 2: can say, Okay, first of all, did it deliver the
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Speaker 2: promised benefits in spine and bifida. Answer unequivocally yes, they did. Okay, terrific.
10:35
Speaker 2: But the other thing they noticed was a huge increase
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Speaker 2: and I'm talking a tripling of the rate of gestational
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Speaker 2: diabetes in the mothers.
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Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh wow.
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Speaker 2: So gestational diabetes is just is like type two diabetes,
10:55
Speaker 2: but it's called gestational because it happens, you know, usually
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Speaker 2: first during pregnancy, and now all pregnant women get a
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Speaker 2: little bit insulent resistant. It's the nature of pregnancy. And
11:09
Speaker 2: the reason for that is that evolution favors the baby,
11:15
Speaker 2: and so the baby must be fed first. So if
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Speaker 2: you make the mother a little insulin resistant, then the
11:21
Speaker 2: blood glucose is going to the baby first. So that's
11:25
Speaker 2: all perfectly normal and perfectly by design. What they found though,
11:31
Speaker 2: was that if you significantly overdose people on FOL eight,
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Speaker 2: if you go above that's what seems to be that
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Speaker 2: magical thousand micrograms today, by the way, the recommended doses
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Speaker 2: four to six hundred micrograms per day for a pregnant woman.
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Speaker 2: But there's this sort of goldilock zone that's between that
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Speaker 2: and a thousand, where as long as you're under the thousand,
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Speaker 2: you're okay. B But if you go above that and
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Speaker 2: significantly above that, then you significantly increase the likelihood that
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Speaker 2: the mother will experience gestational diabetes. So, in other words,
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Speaker 2: the mother will become a type two diabetic at least
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Speaker 2: during the pregnancy. And the studies also say that if
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Speaker 2: you're if you have a gestational diabetes, then you're much
12:15
Speaker 2: much more likely to ultimately end up with type two
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Speaker 2: diabetes within a decade after the pregnancy.
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Speaker 1: Can I ask a quick ask a quick question just
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Speaker 1: to try to give this some context or meaning for
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Speaker 1: people going, you know, four to six hundred micrograms of
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Speaker 1: fole eight or up to a thousand, and it's in
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Speaker 1: the bread, and so people that are maybe I don't
12:35
Speaker 1: know if you know the answer to this, but so
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Speaker 1: if somebody had, let's say, two pieces of bread that's
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Speaker 1: got FOL eight, you know it's been supplemented or what
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Speaker 1: do they call it fortified with fol eight? How much
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Speaker 1: like four to six hundred micrograms? What would two bits
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Speaker 1: of kind of regular bread have do you know.
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Speaker 2: Oh, well, that's two bits of bread is going to
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Speaker 2: be around two hundred grams. Mark in terms of bread,
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Speaker 2: it's one hundred and twenty. It's mandated to be one
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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty micrograms per hundred grams. Okay, so every
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Speaker 2: sandwich you have is going to be one hundred and
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Speaker 2: twenty micrograms. The problem is, and if that was the
13:16
Speaker 2: only place it was. Then nobody be at any particular risk.
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Speaker 2: I suspected nobody's eating that much bread. I mean, unless
13:22
Speaker 2: you're chowing die down on an entire loaf of bread.
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Speaker 2: You know, in a typical day, you're not going to
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Speaker 2: eat well, maybe you eat two, maybe four, maybe you
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Speaker 2: eat six pieces of bread, but you're still well involved
13:35
Speaker 2: locks aren't. The problem is that, in addition to that,
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Speaker 2: women are also intentionally supplementing with filowed. So one of
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Speaker 2: the big pieces of medical advice that they're given is
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Speaker 2: to take foloid supplements before conception and during pregnancy, and
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Speaker 2: those tablets generally are around that recommended level, somewhere between
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Speaker 2: four hundred and six hundred micrograms. So that's that plus
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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty and the two pieces of bread
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Speaker 2: plus a similar amount in a bowl of fortified cereals.
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Speaker 2: So most breakfast cereals are fortified with folate. Plus if
14:11
Speaker 2: you take a multivitamin, then you can add another two
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Speaker 2: to four hundred micrograms on there as well. So, because
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Speaker 2: it's regarded as an unequivocally good thing, it's appearing in
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Speaker 2: lots of places. So there's the mandated thing in the bread.
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Speaker 2: But it's in lots of other places too. And what
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Speaker 2: the study found is that most Australian women had we're
14:34
Speaker 2: now massively overdosing on folate. So between what they were
14:40
Speaker 2: intentionally taking and what they're accidentally taking, they were taking
14:43
Speaker 2: in a lot of folate and instead of the expected result,
14:49
Speaker 2: which would be well, that doesn't really matter, it's no
14:51
Speaker 2: such thing as too much of a good thing. Well,
14:53
Speaker 2: in this case, it looks like there could be such
14:55
Speaker 2: a thing as too much of a good thing. And
15:00
Speaker 2: that's the concern. Now, you know, there's ways you can
15:04
Speaker 2: criticize this study. You can you can say, okay, well
15:09
Speaker 2: the population became more obese in that period of time,
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Speaker 2: that's definitely true, but it didn't become not sufficient to
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Speaker 2: explain a tripling of the rate of gestational diabetes where
15:23
Speaker 2: we've gone from five percent of pregnant women having it
15:27
Speaker 2: to fifteen percent of pregnant women having it, big jump
15:32
Speaker 2: in a decade.
15:34
Speaker 1: Less can I ask? So when in two thousand and
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Speaker 1: nine this became you know, mandated, or this just became
15:43
Speaker 1: was well people made aware of this, like is this
15:47
Speaker 1: government at the time.
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Speaker 2: I think at the time there was a fairly big
15:51
Speaker 2: awareness campaign around it and you know why it was
15:53
Speaker 2: being done, and everyone unequivocally agreed it was a good thing. Studies,
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Speaker 2: The studies on this are, you know, really clear pregnant
16:04
Speaker 2: women should have folate, you know, prevention of spine of
16:08
Speaker 2: if it is a massive, unequivocal benefit. The concern here
16:13
Speaker 2: is that mass medicating always tends to have unintended consequences.
16:20
Speaker 2: And what this study has done in a really precise
16:23
Speaker 2: manner is and just because I'm lucky they had samples
16:28
Speaker 2: from the same group before and after, has got into
16:32
Speaker 2: the to answer the question, which is is it possible
16:35
Speaker 2: to have too much of a good thing? And the
16:37
Speaker 2: answer appears to be yes. So it's not I'm not
16:41
Speaker 2: for a minute suggesting people shouldn't take folate or shouldn't
16:44
Speaker 2: have followed supplementation. What I am suggesting is that they
16:46
Speaker 2: should become an accountant of it. They should very carefully
16:51
Speaker 2: pay attention to how much of it they are actually consuming.
16:55
Speaker 1: And it's something we talk about, or we've talked about
16:57
Speaker 1: a bit, you and I, but also more broadly on
16:59
Speaker 1: the show, a lot is about the dose. It's like
17:02
Speaker 1: anything exercise is great, but not seven hours a day.
17:06
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, like drinking water is good,
17:09
Speaker 1: but not seven liters a day. You know, it's like me.
17:12
Speaker 2: But with both of those things, you're never going to
17:14
Speaker 2: do it accidentally. You're never going to accidentally fall over
17:18
Speaker 2: and find you've exercised seven hours a day. Where this
17:22
Speaker 2: this you'll do without knowing about it. And that's the
17:26
Speaker 2: concern is that this is in all the bread by
17:33
Speaker 2: not by law, but it's there anyway. It's also in
17:36
Speaker 2: most of the cereals, and it's creeping into many things
17:39
Speaker 2: because people see it as a marketing thing. This is
17:43
Speaker 2: you know, this contains folight and that helps sell things
17:46
Speaker 2: to pregnant women.
17:48
Speaker 1: M wow, well, I guess like people are. How do
17:56
Speaker 1: you manage this? You just become more aware, I guess,
17:58
Speaker 1: and you just.
17:59
Speaker 2: Well, it's like that with B six and we had
18:01
Speaker 2: this discussion before. I mean, it's know about it, be
18:06
Speaker 2: aware of it, know about it, know how much you're consuming,
18:10
Speaker 2: and be conscious of it. The the the science is
18:15
Speaker 2: really clear that anything one hundred one thousand micrograms a
18:17
Speaker 2: day is perfectly fine. It's it's easy to stay under
18:23
Speaker 2: that as long as you're aware of it and still
18:26
Speaker 2: take foiloight supplements. Just be aware. Okay, If I'm having
18:29
Speaker 2: one hundred grams of bred thats one hundred and twenty grams.
18:31
Speaker 2: If I'm having a breakfast cereal, there's there's some there.
18:34
Speaker 2: If I'm having any other kind of supplement, I read
18:36
Speaker 2: the label and I check how much folate is in
18:40
Speaker 2: this supplement.
18:42
Speaker 1: Is there a link to this article in your in
18:44
Speaker 1: your article to the actual.
18:47
Speaker 2: You always always always people, I can go and read
18:50
Speaker 2: read the study.
18:51
Speaker 1: If you want to go to David's article if you
18:55
Speaker 1: want to actually look at the paper itself or the
18:57
Speaker 1: research itself and the design.
18:58
Speaker 2: And it's open access by way, so it's not one
19:01
Speaker 2: of these ones that it's restricted. You can read the
19:04
Speaker 2: whole paper. You can dig in as far as you
19:05
Speaker 2: want to go. It's from the University of South Australia,
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Speaker 2: I think so. And very very recent twenty twenty five article.
19:13
Speaker 1: Speaking of pregnant women and medical issues that are also
19:17
Speaker 1: in the news recently, there's well I'll just segue into that,
19:21
Speaker 1: but there's been another issue with the very common drug
19:25
Speaker 1: that people have been talking about the dangers of pregnant
19:29
Speaker 1: women using that.
19:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in the United States, you know, about a
19:33
Speaker 2: week ago the President looked up and the soupern leader
19:40
Speaker 2: pronounced that til and old, which you know Australian listeners
19:43
Speaker 2: might not be all that familiar with. But that's paracetamol
19:46
Speaker 2: or panadol or a set of minifin as I mean.
19:50
Speaker 2: Donald had a bit of a bit of trouble pronouncing
19:53
Speaker 2: that one, but let's just call it panadol for the
19:56
Speaker 2: purposes of this. So pronounced that pa at all causes autism.
20:03
Speaker 2: Now that's just nonsense, that's just nonsense. But we have
20:10
Speaker 2: the leader of the free world telling pregnant women to
20:15
Speaker 2: avoid just about the only thing they're allowed to take
20:18
Speaker 2: for pain relief during pregnancy, because mostly they're told to
20:23
Speaker 2: avoid anything that is likely to actually relieve pain or
20:27
Speaker 2: in any significant degree because of the potential dangers of it.
20:31
Speaker 2: And he's basing this on a really flawed study that
20:37
Speaker 2: was done well, I don't know if it was a
20:41
Speaker 2: flawed study or just a flawed interpretation of it. There
20:44
Speaker 2: has been a study of two and a half million
20:47
Speaker 2: women in the Swedish birth registry, two and a half
20:51
Speaker 2: men and children in the Swedish birth registry. The Swedes
20:53
Speaker 2: are very very good at keeping these records and there
20:55
Speaker 2: are lots of studies that come from these registries that look,
21:01
Speaker 2: there's about a five percent association between a mother having
21:07
Speaker 2: taken panidole during pregnancy and the incidents of autism. Now,
21:13
Speaker 2: as you would be the first to shout there, you know,
21:16
Speaker 2: correlation is not causation, and in this case, this is
21:20
Speaker 2: real proof of it, because the thing you've got to
21:24
Speaker 2: adjust for in these kinds of studies is why was
21:27
Speaker 2: the mother taking panadol in the first place. Usually they're
21:31
Speaker 2: not taking it because they like the taste. They're taking
21:35
Speaker 2: it because they're suffering pain or fever during pregnancy, and
21:41
Speaker 2: it could be that that's causing the association. But how
21:46
Speaker 2: do you adjust for that. Well, when you've got two
21:49
Speaker 2: and a half million children in a database, it's easy
21:52
Speaker 2: to adjust for them because many mothers have more than
21:54
Speaker 2: one child, and many of those mothers have one of
21:58
Speaker 2: the children where they were taking kind of old during
22:01
Speaker 2: pregnancy and another child where they weren't, And when you
22:05
Speaker 2: compare those, it goes away entirely. There is no correlation
22:10
Speaker 2: none whatsoever. And it's a big data set, so we
22:15
Speaker 2: can be reasonably confident in it. So whoever is advising
22:20
Speaker 2: Trump saw the first part of that.
22:22
Speaker 1: I think it's our fk.
22:25
Speaker 2: They saw the first part of that and left to
22:29
Speaker 2: Thailand Old causes autism, which is sheer nonsense, as proven
22:35
Speaker 2: by the second part of it, which says, when we
22:37
Speaker 2: actually analyze the data properly, there's not even a correlation there.
22:42
Speaker 2: There's just nothing.
22:46
Speaker 1: It's like for me, it's like saying, you know two
22:49
Speaker 1: and a half million children, and however, many millions of mums,
22:56
Speaker 1: and of them, you know, fifteen percent of them because
22:59
Speaker 1: of Sweden, fifteen percent of them drove Volvos. So so
23:04
Speaker 1: fifteen percent and fifteen percent of the Volvo of the
23:07
Speaker 1: women drove Volvos also had children with autism. That's a
23:12
Speaker 1: three times the correlation of panadole. You know, I mean
23:15
Speaker 1: that cause autism. That's the Volvo's cause autism. That could
23:18
Speaker 1: be the name of the show, except I don't want
23:20
Speaker 1: to get sued imagine that.
23:25
Speaker 2: But that's it's a case study in correlation and causation.
23:30
Speaker 2: It's an absolute case study. And it very rarely are
23:33
Speaker 2: you able to sew quickly and easily debunk that correlation
23:39
Speaker 2: well than in this circumstance. And yet you've now got
23:43
Speaker 2: the US government telling pregnant women not to take, as
23:49
Speaker 2: I said, just about the only thing they are allowed
23:52
Speaker 2: to take for pain during pregnancy. And by the way,
23:58
Speaker 2: this is not advice that's free from danger. Fever during
24:03
Speaker 2: pregnancy is unequivocally dangerous for unborn children. Yes, and so
24:11
Speaker 2: what you're saying to the population is tuffed out. Well.
24:14
Speaker 2: In fact, those are the exact words that President Trump used,
24:17
Speaker 2: tough it out to a pregnant woman, which is ridiculous.
24:24
Speaker 1: How do we get to this how do we get
24:25
Speaker 1: to this spot where Donald Trump's handing out medical advice.
24:30
Speaker 1: Let's add odds with medical people.
24:35
Speaker 2: People just anyone capable of reading a scientific study would
24:38
Speaker 2: say that's nonsense. And it's so it is distressing and
24:44
Speaker 2: should be, in my view, completely disregarded by anyone. H
24:52
Speaker 2: And now, mind you, I've still got problems with panadol.
24:55
Speaker 2: We've talked before about how it actually reduces empathy and
24:58
Speaker 2: makes you.
24:58
Speaker 1: More about yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:01
Speaker 2: So those pregnant women, if they don't want to be
25:03
Speaker 2: like psychopaths, should definitely avoid panadole. But if they're running
25:09
Speaker 2: a fever, the risks associated with that are significantly greater
25:14
Speaker 2: than the non existent risks of it causing autism.
25:18
Speaker 1: And if you're wondering what David's talk about everyone, we
25:21
Speaker 1: spoke probably a good year ago about there is actually
25:25
Speaker 1: a relationship between people who use panadol or panadine or
25:29
Speaker 1: whatever you call it, paracetamol and they're more likely to
25:34
Speaker 1: be yeah, psychopaths or sociopaths or whatever.
25:37
Speaker 2: That's well, it reduces measureable produces empathy. Yeah, and since
25:42
Speaker 2: that's the core feature of psychopathy, for the four hours
25:46
Speaker 2: or so that it's affecting you, you are likely to
25:48
Speaker 2: be less empathetic.
25:50
Speaker 1: I haven't paid much attention, but as there's been a
25:52
Speaker 1: lot of pushback in the States to the Grand Medical
25:58
Speaker 1: Chief Advisor, there has.
26:01
Speaker 2: Been obviously anyone with any position at all of influence
26:07
Speaker 2: has come out and said it essentially the same thing
26:09
Speaker 2: I've just said. But I don't know how much traction
26:13
Speaker 2: that gets in the United States now, logic doesn't seem
26:17
Speaker 2: to play a large part in the way that some
26:21
Speaker 2: people there are behaving.
26:23
Speaker 1: I'd love to this as not for tonight, but I'd
26:25
Speaker 1: love to do a chat with you one day about
26:27
Speaker 1: just your observations on what's happening. I'm pretty sure that
26:31
Speaker 1: would not be a thirty minute chat. But can I
26:35
Speaker 1: ask you one question, not but a more global question.
26:38
Speaker 1: I guess are you Are you worried about the state
26:43
Speaker 1: of the world in terms of like where it just
26:46
Speaker 1: seems to be like everybody screaming at everybody and extremism becoming.
26:52
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about particular political this or religious that,
26:55
Speaker 1: or but just I don't know. It just seems to
26:58
Speaker 1: me like a global shouting match at the moment.
27:03
Speaker 2: I'm a believer in history repeating itself, particularly when it
27:06
Speaker 2: comes to social behaviors and social structures, and I believe
27:15
Speaker 2: that we tend to go through a roughly eighty year
27:17
Speaker 2: cycles of largely progressive behavior, which is everyone helping everyone else,
27:25
Speaker 2: which gets pushed towards the edge where essentially it's the
27:30
Speaker 2: rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We're in
27:33
Speaker 2: that phase at the moment, right at the end of it.
27:36
Speaker 2: The last time it happened was during the Gilded Age,
27:39
Speaker 2: just before the Second World War, and I think there
27:43
Speaker 2: are some real lessons to be learned about how society
27:47
Speaker 2: looked then and how the Second World War solved it.
27:53
Speaker 2: And the probably horrible prediction that that leads us to,
27:58
Speaker 2: which is that the only thing that's going to fix
27:59
Speaker 2: it this time round is a significant disaster. So that's
28:05
Speaker 2: a fairly pessimistic look at the world. But that's my
28:09
Speaker 2: fear at the moment. And I'm currently just for fun
28:12
Speaker 2: doing a lot of reading about the Gilded Age and
28:14
Speaker 2: we'll probably write something about it at some point, of course.
28:17
Speaker 1: You will. Toys fun chatting to you mate, Thank you
28:21
Speaker 1: for jumping on a Monday night that you don't normally do.
28:26
Speaker 2: Pleasure.
28:27
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye fair but thanks again, David. Yeah, loads
28:30
Speaker 1: of fun see ye, Thanks TIV, Thanks Tip,