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Takeaways from Jed Hoyer’s end-of-season press conference · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: Constantly hoping for guys to outperform projections, and that being
0:05
Speaker 1: the path, it just instantly brings hollow to fans. Welcome
0:12
Speaker 1: into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
0:16
Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs
0:19
Speaker 1: beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick. We had our
0:23
Speaker 1: yearly end of season presser with the President of Baseball
0:28
Speaker 1: Operations Jed Hoyer. I'm one of those people that I've
0:33
Speaker 1: learned over the years to not take too much away
0:37
Speaker 1: from these, like we can come away with one conclusion
0:42
Speaker 1: and the off season goes in a completely different direction.
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Speaker 1: This one definitely, I don't want to grade the press conference.
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Speaker 1: I'm much more interested in what Jed in the front
0:53
Speaker 1: office do this winter. But it was hard to not
0:58
Speaker 1: come away from that presser and feel a little uninspired.
1:03
Speaker 1: I guess I feel like, what is where is this
1:09
Speaker 1: franchise headed? What is the direction? And why is there
1:12
Speaker 1: no sense of urgency at least outwardly with words. Maybe
1:18
Speaker 1: actions will tell us differently, and that's what I think
1:21
Speaker 1: fans should hope for. But I didn't come away from
1:25
Speaker 1: that seeing like time to like enough of this nonsense
1:30
Speaker 1: of being a middling team. It's time to go out
1:33
Speaker 1: and become a power in the n L.
1:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a lot of factors that I think
1:40
Speaker 2: we can outline as we get into this episode.
1:45
Speaker 3: But no, there was no like this is unacceptable.
1:49
Speaker 2: There was no like pounding the table of we're going
1:53
Speaker 2: to make bigger changes, We're going to take bigger swings
1:58
Speaker 2: this offseason. If anything, it was doubling down on this
2:02
Speaker 2: idea of sustainability and making stacking good long term decisions
2:09
Speaker 2: one on top of the other, which is basically what
2:12
Speaker 2: Jed said when he took the job, or I think
2:15
Speaker 2: that exact phrase was used when they let go of
2:18
Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber because of budget cuts.
2:20
Speaker 3: And look that that's a big part of this.
2:23
Speaker 2: You Jed's the one who's up there, and ultimately the
2:26
Speaker 2: baseball operation is his responsibility. But this is an ownership thing.
2:31
Speaker 2: This is a business side thing. Like the Cubs have
2:34
Speaker 2: made it clear they're not going to spend like the
2:35
Speaker 2: Dodgers or the Yankees, and they will say that money
2:40
Speaker 2: doesn't sold everything. Free agency isn't always the fix, but
2:46
Speaker 2: it's a huge opportunity that feels like the Cubs have
2:49
Speaker 2: sort of, you know, moved off to the side that
2:54
Speaker 2: they are very comfortable and confident in their systems and
3:01
Speaker 2: there you know, the cleanness of their financial books and
3:06
Speaker 2: the projectability of their farm system, all sorts of stuff
3:11
Speaker 2: that could well be true. There is a solid foundation there,
3:16
Speaker 2: but coming off of back to back eighty three win seasons,
3:18
Speaker 2: seven years since the franchise's last playoff win, it starts
3:22
Speaker 2: to ring.
3:23
Speaker 1: Hollow, right, you know there, like there are some things
3:28
Speaker 1: that I think it's very easy to go too negative, right, Like,
3:34
Speaker 1: there were some questions I asked near the end of
3:36
Speaker 1: the presser. It got taken in a direction of superstar. Right.
3:41
Speaker 1: I never asked Jed about getting a superstar. I asked
3:46
Speaker 1: about that May and June, you know, slump of the
3:50
Speaker 1: offense or where it was non existent. When we talked
3:54
Speaker 1: to Jed over this course of the season. He's brought
3:57
Speaker 1: up how Ballinger's performance in twenty twenty three kept them
4:01
Speaker 1: from having any big offensive slump when he was on
4:04
Speaker 1: the field, when he was in the lineup, kept that
4:07
Speaker 1: offense from slumping because he played at a higher level.
4:11
Speaker 1: I wasn't saying go out and get a superstar. I
4:13
Speaker 1: was asking, do you have that guy in the roster,
4:15
Speaker 1: do you believe you have that guy in the roster,
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Speaker 1: or do you need to find someone that you know
4:20
Speaker 1: helps make sure the lineup doesn't have these deep slumps.
4:25
Speaker 1: And he took it to the superstar, which he I
4:27
Speaker 1: think is fair because he knows like that's one aspect
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Speaker 1: of it. And then he started talking about outperforming projections,
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Speaker 1: and people freak out about this because listen, you need that,
4:39
Speaker 1: you absolutely need outperforming projections to succeed. Jackson Merrill outperformed
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Speaker 1: projections this year for the San Diego Padres and there
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Speaker 1: they won ninety three games this year. But they also
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Speaker 1: had two superstars who oh I think, I don't know
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Speaker 1: if they performed a superstar level, and Manny Machado and
5:01
Speaker 1: Fernando Tutis, but those guys probably equal to their projections.
5:06
Speaker 1: And then Jackson Merrill outperformed. They also traded for Dylan Cees. Uh,
5:11
Speaker 1: you know, he did trade away a superstar, but they
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Speaker 1: got an impactful pitcher who dominated yesterday and Michael King
5:18
Speaker 1: and and and others. They were able to trade for
5:21
Speaker 1: Dylan ces because of that trade. Uh, I think you
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Speaker 1: do need to outperform projections. Shoho Tani also outperform projections.
5:31
Speaker 1: Uh so superstars can do that as well. Wan Soto
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Speaker 1: outperformed projections. So like there are there. It's it's fine
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Speaker 1: to say that. I get that. You do need that.
5:43
Speaker 1: You know he's going to need that. But there are
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Speaker 1: gonna be players that underperform projections too, So how do
5:48
Speaker 1: you balance this all out? You need some certainty, right
5:51
Speaker 1: You want to find players that give you some certainty.
5:55
Speaker 1: Here is the baseline. So if if you get a
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Speaker 1: guy where the base line is is like you know
6:01
Speaker 1: you're getting four wins out of him, that's that's fine,
6:04
Speaker 1: but you want him to be a better player, right
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Speaker 1: Like I just I think like constantly hoping for guys
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Speaker 1: to outperform projections and and that being the path doesn't
6:19
Speaker 1: isn't going to inspire fans, right And and I think
6:22
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of when when that's the message, it, uh,
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Speaker 1: it just instantly rings hollow to fans. It's important, and
6:30
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's misread or misheard, but it it
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Speaker 1: It can't be the message you're sending and expect positivity
6:40
Speaker 1: and people to be like, oh yeah, I get that,
6:42
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I'm good with that, you know, it's
6:45
Speaker 1: just not it's not going to be a winning message.
6:49
Speaker 2: And in these settings rarely is there like definitive.
6:57
Speaker 1: Stuff.
6:59
Speaker 2: There use a couple injury updates, maybe some personnel coaching
7:04
Speaker 2: changes updates, things of that nature. I don't think this
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Speaker 2: format really favors Jed basically an infomercial for Marquee Sports Network,
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Speaker 2: like kind of this one man show with pr people
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Speaker 2: giving us microphones. I think Jed's passion and awareness and
7:28
Speaker 2: you know knowledge shines through better in other settings where
7:34
Speaker 2: he can just kind of riff and not be sitting
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Speaker 2: on you know, the podium in a sport code. But
7:45
Speaker 2: like that this is that's part.
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Speaker 3: Of his job, like communicating defense.
7:51
Speaker 2: He stressed that, you know, it's the first day of October,
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Speaker 2: so they don't have fully formed off season plans. They
7:56
Speaker 2: have not finalized the budgeting process, so like things can change,
8:01
Speaker 2: Like you're not judged on like the press conference.
8:04
Speaker 3: But it is an opportunity.
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Speaker 2: It is reflective of like the organizations, like values and
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Speaker 2: priorities and expectations, and there was not a whole lot
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Speaker 2: of like we have to win the World Series next year.
8:21
Speaker 2: There was not the standards, the expectations, honestly feels like
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Speaker 2: they've slipped or receded a bit from when Jed first
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Speaker 2: got here with THEO and it was nineteen oh eight
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Speaker 2: and there was this subsession about winning the World Series
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Speaker 2: and look, this process over time could still really work out.
8:42
Speaker 2: Like he's right in that they have seven top hundred
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Speaker 2: prospects and there aren't like bad contracts on the books,
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Speaker 2: and they will have flexibility no matter where that budget
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Speaker 2: number comes in. They'll be able to pivot and they'll
8:58
Speaker 2: be able to bring in more good players.
9:01
Speaker 1: It's just.
9:04
Speaker 2: The cubs from the top throughout the front office, even
9:10
Speaker 2: in the clubhouse. You just get this sense of kind
9:13
Speaker 2: of like, well, our process is good, so like we're
9:16
Speaker 2: going to be good, and it just the product has
9:20
Speaker 2: not been good enough for quite some times. And that
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Speaker 2: I think is going to be the real fascinating dynamic
9:27
Speaker 2: here as we head into the winter and ultimately when
9:31
Speaker 2: we return to Rigley Field next year, of like they
9:35
Speaker 2: have to produce next year or else.
9:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple of things you said. You talked
9:41
Speaker 1: about Jed's passion, and I enjoy talking baseball with Jed.
9:46
Speaker 1: It comes his desire to win often comes across like
9:51
Speaker 1: pretty clearly, right, like when you talk to him, whether
9:54
Speaker 1: it's just you know, on the dirt before game one
9:59
Speaker 1: on one or in a group setting in the dugout right,
10:03
Speaker 1: I thought that what happened on Tuesday was kind of unemotional, dispassionate.
10:10
Speaker 1: It was not the Hohoyer that we've seen in better,
10:15
Speaker 1: you know, circumstances. I didn't. I thought that was part
10:19
Speaker 1: of why it felt so negative, that that normal Jed wasn't.
10:26
Speaker 1: I didn't feel it. Maybe it was maybe it was
10:29
Speaker 1: just you know whatever, the dreary fall day. I don't know,
10:33
Speaker 1: but I didn't feel that. You talked about also the money, right,
10:38
Speaker 1: like Tom Rickins has talked about how you know, money
10:43
Speaker 1: is in everything when it comes to winning, but I
10:45
Speaker 1: just don't like that doesn't mean it doesn't help, you know,
10:50
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you can't do both. Like the Padres
10:54
Speaker 1: have a lot have homegrown talent and have spent big.
10:59
Speaker 1: The Dodger can say the same. The Mets are heading
11:03
Speaker 1: in that direction where you know they're starting to develop
11:06
Speaker 1: talent and they have big money players. It's I'm sure
11:12
Speaker 1: I'm missing teams, but like just just going off the
11:15
Speaker 1: Cleveland Way or the Milwaukee way. It's not like that's
11:21
Speaker 1: what makes Andrew Friedman so special, right, Like what he's
11:24
Speaker 1: done is he he's taken the Tampa Bay Way and
11:29
Speaker 1: not just that said like we're going to be super
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Speaker 1: efficient in LA and lean and mean and you know,
11:36
Speaker 1: look at how flexible we are. He took everything that
11:41
Speaker 1: was good about them and then became a financial behemence
11:44
Speaker 1: behind it. And that's not what the Cubs are doing.
11:49
Speaker 1: The Cubs are like going back to this you know,
11:53
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen ish Houston Astros model of trying to build.
11:59
Speaker 1: And that's fine, but guess what that Bastards were the
12:02
Speaker 1: only team doing it back then. Now there's eight other
12:05
Speaker 1: teams trying to do that. But you're not unique. You
12:08
Speaker 1: better stand out, you better be better than everyone. And
12:11
Speaker 1: they haven't yet proven that to us, that they're better
12:14
Speaker 1: than everyone and doing these things. So you can take
12:17
Speaker 1: an idea that that's effective, But where's the cutting edge stuff?
12:24
Speaker 1: Where is the like, where is the you know, ingenuity, innovation.
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Speaker 1: I haven't heard it yet, you know, and I think
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Speaker 1: or seen it yet, and it has to come in results, right,
12:38
Speaker 1: And there's a lot to be positive about. I want.
12:41
Speaker 1: I think that's important. This is not a seventy win team.
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Speaker 1: This is a team that took a step forward in
12:49
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Did not when it came to the
12:51
Speaker 1: wins and losses, but I think they took a step
12:53
Speaker 1: forward with some talent. Right the farm system is solid.
12:58
Speaker 1: If there's not an elite talent, I think there's a
13:01
Speaker 1: lot of really top talent, And there's plenty of talent
13:06
Speaker 1: on this major league roster, like really good players, arguably
13:10
Speaker 1: great players. Nobody's elite, so you know, we know what's missing.
13:17
Speaker 1: I don't think it's impossible to get better, and they
13:19
Speaker 1: certainly can go about it in a very methodical, you
13:24
Speaker 1: know fashion, and get better like this, This could very
13:27
Speaker 1: well work. We may not like it. We may not
13:31
Speaker 1: enjoy hearing what we're hearing. And that's why I say, like,
13:34
Speaker 1: don't I don't want to get too carried away with
13:37
Speaker 1: a press conference if they go out there and hey,
13:41
Speaker 1: they don't. We're not expecting big money spending right at
13:45
Speaker 1: the very top with Soto and Corbin Burns that we
13:49
Speaker 1: can touch on the Cody Bellinger decision, which I think
13:53
Speaker 1: just the way Jed talked, I didn't get the sense
13:56
Speaker 1: that he was like Cody Bellinger is coming back. Right.
13:59
Speaker 1: He kept talking about all the options he's going to have,
14:02
Speaker 1: like three or four times. Right. I got the sense
14:07
Speaker 1: that he feels he it makes sense for him to
14:10
Speaker 1: opt out. They're gonna have like nearly one hundred million
14:12
Speaker 1: dollars if they even if payroll is flat mm hm,
14:17
Speaker 1: they should have around one hundred million dollars to spend
14:20
Speaker 1: this off season. They're gonna have money to spend. They're
14:22
Speaker 1: going to add talent, they're gonna make moves. So I
14:25
Speaker 1: don't want to come away from this saying like, oh God,
14:28
Speaker 1: they're in such a dire position, and that was such
14:30
Speaker 1: an awful presser. It may not matter the pressor just
14:33
Speaker 1: maybe the thing that we like, you know what, it
14:35
Speaker 1: didn't have. It didn't really have a quote that we're
14:38
Speaker 1: going to take away and bring back like those THEO
14:41
Speaker 1: years or the like a broken offense or reckoning, like
14:46
Speaker 1: none of that stuff is was there. If you want
14:49
Speaker 1: to complain about you know, projections and and things like
14:52
Speaker 1: that are out performing projections, feel free to do that.
14:56
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a valid point that he's making.
14:58
Speaker 1: It just uh, when you're in the situation that you're in,
15:03
Speaker 1: it it distracts, I think, and it and it leads
15:08
Speaker 1: to easy criticism. I think that's the biggest problem with
15:12
Speaker 1: saying that, more than the actual substance of his point.
15:18
Speaker 3: Yeah.
15:18
Speaker 2: I just think he had like forty five minutes to
15:21
Speaker 2: kind of explain that, or take things in different directions
15:24
Speaker 2: and really articulate a vision and instill a sense of urgency,
15:32
Speaker 2: and he didn't. And I think part of the issue
15:36
Speaker 2: with this regime thus far has been that kind of
15:41
Speaker 2: a certain lack of feel of like, you know, this
15:44
Speaker 2: is not a rebuild, and then like we're heading into
15:46
Speaker 2: year five of this and they haven't had a playoff
15:49
Speaker 2: game yet, and you.
15:50
Speaker 3: Know, I've been.
15:53
Speaker 2: I watched the other night on HBO there's like documentary
15:55
Speaker 2: on the making of the Sopranos, and they had this
15:58
Speaker 2: you know, oh yeah.
16:00
Speaker 3: Moment from have you seen it yet?
16:02
Speaker 1: I started it, but I need to be in a
16:05
Speaker 1: mood to get into it.
16:07
Speaker 3: It was it was pretty it was pretty good.
16:08
Speaker 2: But they had this great scene from one of the
16:11
Speaker 2: actual episodes of Tony Soprano, you know, getting pissed off
16:16
Speaker 2: at dinner table being like, remember when is the lowest
16:19
Speaker 2: form of conversation, And so I tried not to constantly
16:24
Speaker 2: go back to like feel or twenty sixteen, but like
16:28
Speaker 2: it's it's useful in part because Jed was there and
16:32
Speaker 2: because like you need some sort of anchor to remember
16:37
Speaker 2: like where the team was and where they've sort of drifted,
16:40
Speaker 2: and like how the game has changed, right, And like
16:43
Speaker 2: you look at the National League now, the Cubs have
16:47
Speaker 2: been surpassed in just a lot of different ways, and
16:51
Speaker 2: there are teams that are coming, like the Mets right
16:54
Speaker 2: of Like you take David Stearns.
16:56
Speaker 3: What he was doing Milwaukee was Steve Cohen's money. They
16:58
Speaker 3: weren't even really trying hard this year, right, and.
17:01
Speaker 2: The playoffs, and now that is the standard that they
17:05
Speaker 2: are openly talking about the playoffs every single year. It's
17:09
Speaker 2: gonna be hard to top that. Like the Phillies figured
17:12
Speaker 2: it out in part because Dave Dombrowski came in and
17:17
Speaker 2: operated with more urgency, like he does not care about
17:21
Speaker 2: long term sustainability.
17:23
Speaker 3: And they've had a really long run thus far.
17:26
Speaker 2: And I don't think the Phillies are just gonna like
17:29
Speaker 2: go away after this October in part because their owner
17:34
Speaker 2: had just turbo charged their payroll.
17:37
Speaker 3: The Padres.
17:39
Speaker 2: You know, our total outlier, but they've just done a
17:44
Speaker 2: lot of things to like make themselves relevant, and then
17:47
Speaker 2: aj Prellar, to his credit, adjusted on the fly and
17:52
Speaker 2: like rearranged everything, and it took this year a lot
17:56
Speaker 2: more than eighty four wins. I mean, the Diamondbacks won
18:00
Speaker 2: on eighty nine with the seventh best team in the
18:04
Speaker 2: National League and the Cubs at eight or you know,
18:06
Speaker 2: six games behind them, and they lost their you know,
18:10
Speaker 2: they would not have won a tiebreaker against them if
18:13
Speaker 2: it came down to it. So I just think the
18:17
Speaker 2: Cubs have to adapt, and they're certainly making changes behind
18:22
Speaker 2: the scenes. But I don't know, I wasn't I don't
18:27
Speaker 2: know what I was expecting from Jed. I don't know
18:29
Speaker 2: if they need to like make it turn it into
18:32
Speaker 2: this like full confessional and like, you know whatever.
18:35
Speaker 3: But there was not a whole lot.
18:36
Speaker 2: Of like like, wow, we need to get way better,
18:39
Speaker 2: we need to change things, like this is this is unacceptable.
18:43
Speaker 3: That's not what I heard.
18:45
Speaker 2: And maybe there's more self reflection behind the scenes, maybe
18:49
Speaker 2: there's more accountability that will happen during the offseason, but
18:56
Speaker 2: it just seemed like kind of tent and extremely confident
19:02
Speaker 2: that things are going to turn when I don't know
19:07
Speaker 2: if there's been enough evidence that that is going to
19:10
Speaker 2: happen yet it could, no doubt to your point, but
19:14
Speaker 2: the benefit of the doubt I think is shrinking.
19:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it just comes back to when
19:20
Speaker 1: like we keep saying it could, and I think we're
19:23
Speaker 1: on the same page, right, We're on the same page like, yeah,
19:25
Speaker 1: it could get better, and you know, maybe it goes
19:29
Speaker 1: down to eighty wins like just right, Like what fans
19:35
Speaker 1: want is a little more certainty, but just a little
19:39
Speaker 1: bit more like you're and I've said this, I don't
19:44
Speaker 1: know the past four weeks. Now get to a level
19:48
Speaker 1: where and Jed said it, he knows what the goal is.
19:51
Speaker 1: There's just doesn't seem to be a full desire to
19:56
Speaker 1: get there this off season of project to win like
19:59
Speaker 1: eighty eight eight plus games. You get there this offseason
20:04
Speaker 1: and all all is forgiven, nobody's gonna complain. You build
20:08
Speaker 1: that team and you and you continue to project in
20:10
Speaker 1: the eighty eight dish range. He's right, it's really hard
20:13
Speaker 1: to build a ninety plus win projection team. Yeah, projections
20:18
Speaker 1: don't are harsh man, They're gonna they're not. It's really
20:21
Speaker 1: hard to build a ninety plus win projection team. It
20:24
Speaker 1: just is now, if you can get it to eighty
20:27
Speaker 1: eight dish this offseason, you're gonna be in that range
20:30
Speaker 1: of eighty eight to ninety two if you build it right. So,
20:34
Speaker 1: I mean there were I think there just wasn't a
20:40
Speaker 1: I think ultimately it comes down to there. There wasn't
20:43
Speaker 1: a strong statement of we're going to get better this
20:46
Speaker 1: offseason and we have a plan like this is unacceptable
20:50
Speaker 1: to be a team that wins eighty three games and
20:53
Speaker 1: frankly was projected to win in the same area, like
20:56
Speaker 1: we we can't. We have to do better, right And
21:01
Speaker 1: he may have said it in some ways, but it
21:03
Speaker 1: wasn't forceful and strong enough for the feelings around this
21:07
Speaker 1: team right now. Like when you haven't been to the
21:10
Speaker 1: playoffs in a full season in six years? Now, is
21:15
Speaker 1: that right? Yeah? Six years in a full season. Listen.
21:19
Speaker 1: I think it is a big deal to get to
21:22
Speaker 1: this point. I know people are saying that he's had
21:26
Speaker 1: so much time. When you lose as much talent as
21:30
Speaker 1: they did in twenty twenty one, and yes, it was
21:32
Speaker 1: a choice, but they weren't resigning those guys and it
21:34
Speaker 1: wouln't have made sense to resign those guys. When you
21:37
Speaker 1: lose that much talent and you're in this situation that
21:40
Speaker 1: you're in, it takes a little while, so that's fine.
21:44
Speaker 1: But now we're past that point now of like you
21:49
Speaker 1: know that they've had the time. Now now gets to
21:51
Speaker 1: the point that it's time to meet expectations, you know
21:55
Speaker 1: what I mean A couple other things if you did,
21:59
Speaker 1: if people haven't read that, like Kylie McDaniel piece on
22:02
Speaker 1: the Mets, I would recommend that because you just touched
22:05
Speaker 1: on it. Like they weren't supposed to be that good
22:08
Speaker 1: this year. This is kind of supposed to be the
22:10
Speaker 1: step back with David Stearns with what we've seen and
22:13
Speaker 1: Steve Cohen with the money that he has, like hair
22:16
Speaker 1: set up really nicely and they had a really good
22:19
Speaker 1: season in the farm system. It almost feels like they're
22:23
Speaker 1: a little ahead of schedule. And like when you see
22:25
Speaker 1: stuff like that and an executive have the impact that
22:29
Speaker 1: he's had, like Stearns has had Milwaukee and could have
22:33
Speaker 1: in New York, you're you're right, they're set up to
22:35
Speaker 1: be a behemoth. I also think uh Saint Louis is
22:40
Speaker 1: going to take a step back right that they've made
22:42
Speaker 1: that pretty clear that that next year is a step back.
22:46
Speaker 1: This is this should be an opportunity, you would think
22:49
Speaker 1: for the Cubs. Okay, the rail competition is is Milwaukee. Yeah,
22:55
Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have young talent. Sure, but that's
23:00
Speaker 1: the difference. Use the money to make sure that you
23:02
Speaker 1: have young talent, end power with like and talent like
23:06
Speaker 1: big money talent. Right it used this as an opportunity.
23:09
Speaker 1: I don't think the Cardinals are going to be down
23:11
Speaker 1: for that long. I would warn the fans that are
23:14
Speaker 1: that are celebrating this, go look at the system that
23:17
Speaker 1: he'm Bloom built in Boston, Like that system is awesome.
23:20
Speaker 1: Now you think it's not Breslo that did that in
23:23
Speaker 1: the season, those guys I'm Bloom did a really good job.
23:26
Speaker 1: I think he got We may learn over the next
23:28
Speaker 1: half decades. Oh, this guy got let go unfairly like
23:32
Speaker 1: he shouldn't have been let go. He knows what he's doing.
23:34
Speaker 1: I hear a lot of good things about him as
23:37
Speaker 1: a as a leader. So I'm very curious to see
23:41
Speaker 1: how things go in Saint Louis because if they may
23:44
Speaker 1: not be down for that long, if he's really given
23:47
Speaker 1: full control and allowed to do things how he sees best.
23:52
Speaker 1: That that could they could be bouncing back sooner than
23:55
Speaker 1: than some fans expect. So yeah, I wouldn't. Just like,
24:00
Speaker 1: you've got to take advantage of these moments when when
24:03
Speaker 1: good organizations are down and they're in your division, you
24:06
Speaker 1: got to try and pounce and make sure you're, you know,
24:09
Speaker 1: take a step up. I think the Cubs need to
24:12
Speaker 1: act to make sure they don't miss out on an
24:14
Speaker 1: opportunity here to have a nice window of success.
24:18
Speaker 2: And that's why I don't quite get being worried about
24:22
Speaker 2: what a contract might look like in twenty twenty nine,
24:27
Speaker 2: you know, or like trading away a young player from
24:33
Speaker 2: like a pretty good farm system who like might figure
24:36
Speaker 2: it out four or five years from now, like did
24:41
Speaker 2: the Cubs. Did eBoy really haunt the Cubs? Like Dylante's
24:47
Speaker 2: certainly outperformed what they thought, like he had a best
24:49
Speaker 2: case kind of scenario, and he's a really good pitcher
24:53
Speaker 2: they obviously.
24:53
Speaker 3: Could have used.
24:54
Speaker 2: But they needed someone to pitch in the NLCS in
24:56
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, and that's what Jose Kintana did, and he
25:00
Speaker 2: contributed to a ninety five win team.
25:02
Speaker 1: The year after.
25:03
Speaker 2: It's just kind of like, I don't know that all
25:07
Speaker 2: seven of those guys in the top one hundred are
25:10
Speaker 2: going to become like difference makers.
25:13
Speaker 3: And when is that going to happen? Is that like
25:17
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight.
25:19
Speaker 2: Maybe by the time they figured out, like how much
25:22
Speaker 2: patience and runway are you going to give these guys?
25:25
Speaker 2: You did it for PCA, and it certainly worked out,
25:27
Speaker 2: and he looks like a really nice player, maybe one
25:30
Speaker 2: of those guys who could have that five war six
25:33
Speaker 2: war season. Obviously the defensive counting stats will help in
25:39
Speaker 2: that regard with him.
25:40
Speaker 1: But like.
25:42
Speaker 2: I'm with you on the Cardinals, I don't think you
25:46
Speaker 2: can like say, oh, they're gonna be down for a
25:49
Speaker 2: long time. The Braves with all those long term extensions
25:53
Speaker 2: they did, they're going to be a playoff factor for
25:57
Speaker 2: a long time. Certain Mets and Phillies a great rivalry.
26:04
Speaker 2: The Nationals are building back up. Maybe the Reds or
26:09
Speaker 2: Pirates have one of those years where they beat projections
26:12
Speaker 2: all of a sudden and the Cubs are kind of scrambling,
26:15
Speaker 2: and like again, remember when the Cubs were comparing themselves
26:20
Speaker 2: to like the Belichick Brady Patriots, or like the Steph
26:24
Speaker 2: Curry Steve Kirk Warriors, like that was the standard back then,
26:30
Speaker 2: and now it's kind of like.
26:31
Speaker 3: Hey, look what the Diamondbacks did last year with eighty
26:33
Speaker 3: four wins.
26:35
Speaker 2: Like it's it's jarring when you think about it that way.
26:39
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's a good way to frame it.
26:42
Speaker 1: Actually it is jarring like it and it feels like
26:48
Speaker 1: lowering the standard.
26:49
Speaker 3: Uh.
26:50
Speaker 1: And and that's that's, you know, not not what fans want, certainly.
26:55
Speaker 1: So it was, Yeah, it was. It was one of
26:59
Speaker 1: those I guess it just doesn't inspire confidence right now.
27:03
Speaker 1: But again I would I would preach patience to the fans.
27:07
Speaker 1: Let's see what they do in November and December. That's
27:10
Speaker 1: gonna be most important. Uh. I think there are a
27:13
Speaker 1: lot of ways for them to get better. Uh, this
27:16
Speaker 1: isn't this isn't a disaster. Uh, this isn't like a mess.
27:23
Speaker 1: You said, you said that they have all the right
27:26
Speaker 1: things in place, like, yeah, in place for sure. I
27:29
Speaker 1: think with the system in particular, it is really time
27:33
Speaker 1: for them, like they need to nail their internal you
27:37
Speaker 1: know analysis, like they're like they're internal projections of these players.
27:42
Speaker 1: Better be right and then and then get moved the
27:46
Speaker 1: ones that they see fit and and hold on to
27:50
Speaker 1: the ones that they think are going to outperform that
27:53
Speaker 1: they can coach up. Because some of this is not
27:56
Speaker 1: just projections, right, some of them like, it's okay, here
27:59
Speaker 1: are the projections. We think player X is going to
28:03
Speaker 1: outperform projections because he works so well with the coaches.
28:05
Speaker 1: We know how hard he works, we know how well
28:08
Speaker 1: he takes care of his body. We know he's the
28:10
Speaker 1: one that shows up early and stays late and has
28:13
Speaker 1: this makeup Like that's what they really need to know, right,
28:17
Speaker 1: And that's the type of stuff that sets you apart
28:19
Speaker 1: as an organization. The cost communication between departments that makes
28:22
Speaker 1: sure like hey, I'm working with this guy all the time,
28:25
Speaker 1: you know whatever, a hitting coordinator working with match all
28:28
Speaker 1: the time and letting player development know, hey, this is
28:32
Speaker 1: what's going on with this guy. He gets it. He's
28:34
Speaker 1: putting in the work, he's taking steps like he's going
28:37
Speaker 1: to be a star. Right. Like that type of stuff
28:40
Speaker 1: you need, you need to be super in tune with
28:43
Speaker 1: and make sure that the guy that isn't doing the
28:47
Speaker 1: extra work or the guy that is, like you know,
28:50
Speaker 1: he likes to take a day off here and there
28:52
Speaker 1: and things like that. Okay, well he performs on the field,
28:56
Speaker 1: so we got these nice minor league numbers, let's move them. Yeah,
29:00
Speaker 1: you know that type of stuff. And I think that's
29:03
Speaker 1: why we'll like, we haven't seen enough of that yet,
29:08
Speaker 1: so you know, we'll see if they if this is
29:12
Speaker 1: the off season where they start moving guys, i'd be
29:16
Speaker 1: surprised if there isn't a big trade. Yeah, So I guess, well,
29:23
Speaker 1: we should forget about this pressor in a couple of weeks, Right,
29:26
Speaker 1: it should not be something that is relevant if they
29:31
Speaker 1: have if they're doing the right things, this pressor should
29:34
Speaker 1: not be relevant to the discussion by the time we
29:38
Speaker 1: hit free agency. If we're still talking about like remember
29:40
Speaker 1: that presser, Wow, that really did foreshadow a boring off
29:44
Speaker 1: season where they just didn't do anything, then you know,
29:47
Speaker 1: then it was a problem. But I agree with everything
29:51
Speaker 1: you're saying as far as in general, fans didn't hear
29:55
Speaker 1: what they probably wanted to hear, But like, ultimately it's
29:58
Speaker 1: the off season that matters.
30:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think this is one where we're going
30:03
Speaker 2: to be, like you said, some of those THEO quotes
30:07
Speaker 2: or even the general feeling walking out of there. It's
30:10
Speaker 2: not something that at least in when I sit down
30:14
Speaker 2: and write this offseason, I don't think it's gonna be
30:16
Speaker 2: like pinning that back on Jed or constantly doing the callbacks.
30:20
Speaker 3: To me, it was more of.
30:21
Speaker 2: Just kind of the the culmination of the last several years,
30:27
Speaker 2: and also like it was genuine curiosity of like how
30:32
Speaker 2: is Jed going to answer some of these questions? And
30:35
Speaker 2: you had a great back and forth with him, back
30:39
Speaker 2: and forth implies is more like he It was just
30:40
Speaker 2: more like genuine curiosity of like how are you build
30:43
Speaker 2: these projection systems? And when I asked him, is this
30:45
Speaker 2: the time to kind of maybe be a little more
30:48
Speaker 2: aggressive and get outside your comfort zone? And like those
30:51
Speaker 2: answers are revealing and that's his chance to explain, and
30:54
Speaker 2: that's why we ran his quotes. Like this is not
30:57
Speaker 2: really like columnizing or editorial. I'd say, just like we
31:02
Speaker 2: asked the question. You know, it's forty five minutes. You
31:04
Speaker 2: pick out what you think was most interesting and what
31:06
Speaker 2: was most relevant at this particular time and kind of
31:10
Speaker 2: lives on on the athletic for the.
31:13
Speaker 3: For the moment, we'll see what they do.
31:16
Speaker 2: Totally, it's totally within their capabilities of uh changing this
31:21
Speaker 2: narrative and giving fans and media something different to talk about.
31:26
Speaker 2: Just gonna have to wait until, you know, after the
31:28
Speaker 2: World Series and the free agent market opens and trades
31:31
Speaker 2: start happening again.
31:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens over the next month.
31:36
Speaker 1: I'm sure as the playoffs go on, different narratives will
31:41
Speaker 1: arise as well as they always do in the playoffs. Right,
31:43
Speaker 1: it's like, well, this is how you build a team now, right,
31:46
Speaker 1: like we always seem and it's like that's that's the
31:52
Speaker 1: way to do it. But you know, we we know
31:55
Speaker 1: ultimately there's more than there's so many different ways to
31:57
Speaker 1: find success. Uh, yeah, we'll we'll be back at it.
32:01
Speaker 1: I think we're down to two podcasts a week in
32:04
Speaker 1: the in the post or app now that the season
32:07
Speaker 1: has wrapped up. So we'll be back at it for
32:09
Speaker 1: you guys next week. We'll be coming at you twice
32:12
Speaker 1: a week. You're an off season, definitely, when there's big news,
32:16
Speaker 1: we'll we'll we'll be right here recording for you guys.
32:19
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. This is Northside Territory. Make
32:22
Speaker 1: sure to rate, review and subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube
32:25
Speaker 1: channel and subscribe to The Athletic, where Patrick and I
32:28
Speaker 1: will be on top of this likely to be hecticed
32:31
Speaker 1: off season. We'll see, uh, we'll see if it's the
32:33
Speaker 1: disappointment or not, but we'll be on top of it
32:36
Speaker 1: for all of you guys. Thanks for listening to take care,