Latest / MyRye.com Conversations with Doug French / The Law with City Counsel Kristen Wilson
Transcript
- MyRye.com: Welcome to the MyRai.com podcast, Conversations with Doug French. I am your host, Doug French, the former mayor of the city of Rye, and this podcast is all about the people and the issues that impact Rye and our surrounding region. And for our listeners, our goal is to educate and inform you on the issues that matter most to you so you can engage and make a difference in our community. Today's conversation is about the Law and Corporation Council, and with us is Kristen Wilson. The City of Rye Corporation Council. Counselor, welcome to myRai.com. Kristen Wilson: Thank you for having me as your guest, Mayor French. I'm excited to be here. MyRye.com: Operative word is former Mayor Sprench. And so for our listeners, in this episode, I'd like you to walk away with three things. One is Kristen's role as the people's prosecutor in the Rye City Court. The second is an overview of the city's legal docket and managing such a large caseload. and the third is Kristen's role really as corporation counsel in advising city council and staff on legal and litigation matters. Kristen Wilson: Former. Always a mayor in my mind. MyRye.com: And so with that, I think we'll we'll open up with our icebreaker question. I mean, what's in the news nationally all of the time is the Attorney General role. Like whose lawyer is the Attorney General? That's the same question to you as the city's lawyer. Whose lawyer are you? Kristen Wilson: So it's it's always the question of the day. I run into conflicts more often than I would wish, but I will start off by answering that what I am not. I am not the general public's lawyer. I, as you know, I am hired and fired by the Rye City Council, the seven members, the seven elected officials. And I represent them as a body. I represent at times, depending on the day, department heads, I represent boards and commissions, I render legal advice to different bodies or arms of the city. At times there are conflicts, and I certainly in those moments bring in outside council to represent the other entity that might be at odds with the entity that I might be representing. For instance, as a way of of an example, many years ago a Rye Golf Club had an issue with its sewer tax and the assessed value that it was that we had it on the the books as and so they filed a grievance with our board of assessment review. So I had the Rye Golf Club on one hand and the Board of Assessment Review on another hand and had to bring an outside council so that both bodies could be represented accurately. So MyRye.com: Interesting. So you do have to walk that fine line from time to time. Kristen Wilson: Yes, actually more often than not. MyRye.com: so let's go look to our first section about the your role as the prosecutor. Most people get their legal knowledge from the show Law and Order. in this case, in the Rice City Court, you are the role of the people's prosecutor. So what types of cases do you handle and and what really what's the process around those cases? Kristen Wilson: So, Rye City Court, first I would say that's the friendliest court anyone will likely ever walk into. So if you haven't been in court before and you are summoned to come to Rye City Court, do not be afraid. It is a very friendly court from the court officers to the city court judges. I'll include myself and my associate as well, that we will certainly take the time and explain the process to everyone. But the the docket in Rice City court that I handle is every Thursday and Friday morning and lasts about two hours, two to three hours. And the matters that we handle are any state vehicle and traffic law violations, county, city code violations, city. vehicle and traffic law violations. and then occasionally we actually have navigation law violations for issues that our our Marine Patrol come across primarily during the summer months, but deals with fishermen not being licensed or fishing fish or you know pulling up fish that they shouldn't be And also if they if their boat is not equipped appropriately with the proper safety, like lifeboats, safety vests, fire extinguishers and the like. MyRye.com: Right, okay. And when does the county get involved? What what types of cases does the county act as prosecutor? Kristen Wilson: So we actually I step into the shoes of the county prosecutor similar to that of any if the New York State Police or the MTA have cases in Rye City Court, we have an agreement with all of the other agencies in which we prosecute those cases on their behalf. MTA officers, state troopers, county officers often come to court when their cases are on the docket, but but I represent their interests. So that that happens regularly and we we handle those cases in the normal course. MyRye.com: Wait. Any criminal case in Y City Court though, the the DA of the county would handle, correct? Kristen Wilson: Correct, yes, the DA handles anything that's criminal in nature. there are a handful of occasions every year in which there are criminal and civil components of a particular on a particular docket involving the same defendant. So we will work hand in hand with the DA's office to ensure that we are all on the same page and if there is a plea deal to be struck that both the city and the county are are on the same page. MyRye.com: So most residents probably come in for traffic violations, correct? So they're traffic or parking. So any advice for the resident coming to court? Kristen Wilson: Traffic or parking? Yeah. first if it's parking, you can appeal online. so I would recommend doing that so you don't have to wait in line. we will handle the appeals administratively and quite quickly online. We also just the other Docket filler, if you will, for the past two years has been leaf blower violations. And we just transferred all of those over to an online system as well. So you are welcome to come to court, but my advice to the homeowner or business owner that receives the violation for improper using a gas leaf blower now or using them out of season is to go online and dispute your ticket online or pay online. So that's my first piece of advice. Secondarily, if it's your first time in court, again, don't be afraid. We're very nice, we're here to to to try and to try you try and get you back on the right path. MyRye.com: Right, yeah, 'cause for many people it's it's their first entree into the community as well. If you're outside of the community, the Rice City Court is really your first experience with the government and it's I've heard great things about it. Not be not being a defendant myself. let's move to to our next block with with the dispute. So this you know, city has a lot of people that have disputes against it as well as the city has to has to protect itself, its interests as well. So talk about your managing the city's doc in all kinds of manners that you're dealing with and how those processes are handled, like administrative law versus other types of courts. Kristen Wilson: Sure. So my job is different every day. we handle things as I'll call it small as a local speeding ticket or leaf blower violation. And they they run the gamut. There are state law issues, federal issues, there are certainly is matters that are handled administratively. so for instance, often more often than not, most of the cases are venued in state court and state supreme court in White Plains. and those range from breach of contract to Article 78 proceedings, which are probably the most frequent type of lawsuit that I that I defend. We also certainly have matters that are currently pending and have been pending in the past in in in federal court. MyRye.com: Now I was gonna get to this later, but do you wanna explain Article seventy eight? Kristen Wilson: Sure. So an Article seventy-eight proceeding is a special proceeding in New York State that a petitioner, someone that's been injured, can commence against a governmental body. And when I said a moment ago that those are the most frequent types of complaints or proceedings I handle, it's because Many aggrieved parties will file an Article 78 petition against a the Planning Commission, a zoning board of appeals, the city council, any board in the city that has discretion. So if you're a discretionary body, you are ripe to be sued. so if For instance, the Planning Commission several years ago was involved in in a lawsuit because they rendered a decision that went in the applicant's favor, but the neighbor was upset. So the neighbor commenced an Article 78 proceeding, and those types of proceedings differ from a typical complaint in that a judge will base his or her decision on the record before the discretionary body. So you there usually are no no depositions, there aren't usually discovery demands and a lot of documents going back and forth, because the judge's job in that in an Article 78 proceeding is to say, okay, based on the record before, let's say the Planning Commission, was the Planning Commission arbitrary and capricious? Was there any rational basis upon which the Planning Commission made its decision? And my job in that case would be to point out to the judge They made this decision based on X, Y, and Z in the record. Here you go. So if it wasn't before the Planning Commission when they rendered the decision, the judge doesn't consider that evidence. So that's why there's not a lot of discovery as one would typically see in a in a normal, maybe contractual dispute. MyRye.com: Gotcha. So essentially if you're denied your application and you say, well, they just acted arbitrarily in making their decision, you can then file an article seventy-eight, which is really under what the civil law civil practice law and rules that says, hey, I I'd like this reviewed because I think I think they just acted arbitrarily, right? So this now puts them on record and then the judge actually sees the application that was before them. Kristen Wilson: Correct. Yes. So every year we I would say we maybe get a half a dozen, six to eight Article seventy eight proceedings. and they vary. Sometimes they're against the city council, some against the zoning board, sometimes the planning commission. occasionally our board of assessment review. So it depends on the year. MyRye.com: Interesting. Okay, great. And you so before I switch to the Article seventy eight, you're talking about federal cases? Kristen Wilson: Yes, so depending on the type of lawsuit or the the statute under which we're sued, will dictate whether the state court has jurisdiction or federal court. the the longest running case that I think the city probably has ever been party to, which is probably one of the most prominent matters that I would would say that I was involved with is the Save the Sound lawsuit. That was commenced by Save the Sound against the city and nine other municipalities. But the Save the Sound sued us under a federal statute, and so that was in federal court in the Southern District of New York. So the the rules are slightly different than state court and certainly different than local court. And the the causes of action are they're based on federal statutes as opposed to state law issues. MyRye.com: And is that still in court? That's or that's been resolved and what's the outcome? Kristen Wilson: We we will we have resolved it. it is I would say a I'm at the point, it's it's it was commenced in twenty fifteen. So we just signed our final revised settlement and I will say in terms of impact to the city of Rye, this is probably the most impactful case slash resolution in a in a good way. not to say that it wasn't or isn't in the future going to be a financial there there's certainly a h large financial component associated with it, but there the results of this lawsuit has re has led the city to essentially develop its comprehensive plan for its sewer system. And it's not a sexy case. It's you we're talking about our underground sewers that no one sees, hopefully no one smells and But it was aging infrastructure, but because of this lawsuit, the city was required to essentially create a comprehensive plan of its system and identify the most significant repairs that that needed to be immediately addressed. it also led to some significant local legislation, so that now when you sell your house, you have to get a discharge compliance certificate. from the building department to ensure that your lateral is working properly. And it's also led to three what we refer to as EBPs, environmental benefit projects. and those you can see readily. Right the car park one was restructured, repaved, has bioswales, and is in a at the end of the day an environmental benefit in terms of of stormwater retention, trees, rain gardens, and the like. So that was one project. the other one, yes, like behind Ruby's. MyRye.com: That's behind Purchase Street, correct? Yeah, right. Kristen Wilson: The other another environmental benefit project was the Sterling Field parking area, back by Sterling Field with the semi-pervious pavers that people can park on now. And then also the the I would call it the large rain garden at Rye Rec Park at near the amphitheater. those were all done as a result of this lawsuit that Save the Sound brought. So in terms of litigation matters that come across my desk, I certainly have a hand in them, but this Save the Sound lawsuit, it involved A lot of work with Ryan Coyne, he did a great job. Christian Miller and the building department with the discharge compliance certificate. The city council in agreeing to fund millions of dollars of sewer repairs. It was it it crossed a lot of different departments and lasted about ten years. But I think that's probably the most impactful lawsuit the city has ever seen. MyRye.com: Okay. And and those types of cases you you form out for specialized counsel as well? Kristen Wilson: We did in the beginning. We brought in outside counsel that a boutique environmental firm, this case was birthed through the Clean Water Act. And so it's a pretty specialized area and we needed some guidance and we actually worked pretty closely with our neighboring communities 'cause we were all in the same lawsuit, all had the same issues, all discharged to the Long Island Sound. So it was a it was a group effort. MyRye.com: Right. And things like labor matters, that's that's specialized lawyer that handles all the labor negotiations, correct? Kristen Wilson: Yes, we have Vince Toomy has been around longer than I have been and he if it's a personnel issue or dealing with union contracts, we usually call him up and he has an expertise in that area and certainly also knows the civil service laws very well. So that MyRye.com: Any grievances as well with the unions? That's handled with outside council. and any other types of cases that that you're managing insurance. Usually that has some representation as well from outside, correct? Kristen Wilson: Yes. It does, yes. one of my goals as corporation counsel over the years was to make to make sure that we could have coverage on everything possible, whether it's our firehouses and flood zones or if it's for your standard trip and fall case. so when issues when we are sued and we have insurance coverage for it, I often will tap outside council that specialize in a particular area to to assist. every year we have I would say fifteen to twenty typical trip and fall, slip and fall cases. that are are handled through our insurance carrier. The most recent one of note that is still pending, but I won't it's been in the news quite a bit is Jeanine Pirot tripped and fell outside of City Hall and we have an active lawsuit with her. So hopefully that gets settled. MyRye.com: Yes, we all know Judge Janine. so let's let's pivot now over to how you would really advise the council. So I guess the key is how do manage all the initiatives that the city wants to do, like infrastructure, development, sustainability, quality of life versus risk management with the law. So just talk a little bit and you've had extensive experience, which sounds like it took place with the case you just mentioned about the Sound Shore. Kristen Wilson: Yes. MyRye.com: in environmental and municipal law. So just walk me through kind of how you manage that process with with advising staff and counsel. Kristen Wilson: So it it is a careful balance, you are right. and I'll use a word that you just mentioned in your question to me. It is a process. So and that is the best way I can protect the city council or the various boards and commissions, that whether it's a new law that the council wants to adopt, the first part of my job is to ensure that we have the authority to adopt that type of law and to look at other municipal Entities to see if they've done something similar. But after that work is done, after that research is done, it's really a matter of following the right process in terms of making sure that, you know, if there's a public hearing to be held to to ensure that everyone has the right to be heard. If it's a matter that triggers a state environmental review process, and make sure that all the notices go out and we follow and review the environmental factors that we are required to consider. And then at the end of the day. whatever decision the discretionary body makes, it's at least I go back to the substantial record that's before the the the various boards or commissions, as long as the decision is based on the record before them, I feel confident that it would be upheld in court. So if it's a development application or a zoning petition For instance, the Osborne came several years ago for a zoning petition. At the end of the day, the decision has a good chance of being upheld by a court if the process is followed. So it's really just making sure and helping guide the deciding board through the process of checking the boxes and doing the due diligence that we need to do. MyRye.com: So we just talked about that process. Secrets are a pretty extensive process. can you walk through that a bit? Kristen Wilson: Sure. and Governor Hokel just amended or I guess her proposed amendments were adopted and became effective June twelfth. So Seeker stands for the State Environmental Quality Review Act. All quote actions are subject to Seeker. and then there's different criteria determining what type of action it is. And that will dictate what type of process you have to go through, how thorough of a process you have to go through. And it is it is an animal of a statute in terms of its requirements. It has a very broad definition of what the environment is. And it keeps getting broader. Some of the amendments that became effective just I guess last week broaden the areas of environment that an applicant has to look at if they want to develop property. that's what it is. Use that word again, process. It is not a substantive law in that it dictates an outcome. it is it's more of a if you have if you're going to consider developing property or changing property, you have to consider all these quote unquote environmental factors and mitigate any impacts to the maximum extent practicable, weighing the applicant's needs and desires, weighing the community character, the community's concerns, and it often trips up discretionary agencies. And those types of claims, seeker violations are more often than not, I would say 90% of the time included in Article 78 proceedings against the city, saying that not only Planning Commission did you act arbitrarily, but you also violated Seeker because you failed to take a hard look at an endangered species or if you could mitigate the impact to a wetland in a better way. MyRye.com: Right. so talking about improvements, sounds like City Hall's gone through some improvements right now in the background there. Okay. Hopefully you went through the right process to get approval on that. so let's pivot like the home rule is also is in the news a lot. Just explain that to the audience. Kristen Wilson: Yes, we are getting a new HVAC updated. I hope Yeah. Sure, home rule is and not every state is a home rule state. New York is is one of the I would say I think the a majority of the states in the United States are home rule, but not all. And it essentially allows local governments to handle their local affairs. And in the Constitution, I believe it's Article 9 of the New York State Constitution, it sets forth what I will refer to as local government bill of rights. And it it broadly states what authority the state is delegating to local communities to run on their own. So for instance, because we are a home rule state, the city of Rye can adopt its own mini like local environmental regulations. We certainly have exercised that authority most recently with the leaf blower amendments. We also certainly have a wetlands law, our tree law adopted a couple years ago or amended a couple years ago. That's all done pursuant to municipal home rule. And it's it's really again, it's the state's way of saying local problems should be handled by local officials. We're gonna stay out of it. MyRye.com: So the tree law is exactly what I was was getting at is here you've got private property rights versus the environmental impacts of cutting down trees, right? So you had to grapple with that issue, but you guys put forward the amendments to the to the law, correct? Kristen Wilson: We did. And to go back to one of my my prior answers, we we had to go through the seeker process and and weigh and balance the impact to property owners that want to do It's their property, they want to they want to develop their property the way they see fit versus the environmental benefit of having more trees or certain types of trees. And it was it's all about it's not a yes or no, it's a it's a balance as far as how much does the community want to regulate versus allow people to exercise their own discretion. MyRye.com: And just before we leave this this block, any emerging topics or legal issues that you see the residents should be aware of, whether it's climate resilience or federal state changes, anything coming down the pike legally that you see that the city needs to be aware of? Kristen Wilson: So I think the most critical changes just occurred with with Seeker, because that impacts almost every application that comes through the city hall. the other areas that we're keeping a close eye on are certainly Governor Hokel's housing initiatives. those will the that type of broad question or issue will I hope be addressed by our comprehensive plan steering committee or will be included in the comprehensive plan update. the one Area where our little bit of authority that we do have is being taken away, and keeping a close eye on that as well is cell towers and telecommunication facilities. The federal government has preempted that area of law in about 90% of the ways it can, and it's slowly chipping away at the little bit of authority local governments do have. MyRye.com: Okay, so that does that mean we're not gonna get cell service at Milton Point or that's still gonna an issue? Kristen Wilson: I don't think that I don't think that's going to dictate whether or not we have self service at no one point. MyRye.com: Okay. and it just it's just one last thing. the city if I wanna know the the local law, the city code online, generally that application has not been great. Is it getting better with AI? Should I start with my AI chat and and look up the law or just go right to the City Code Online? Kristen Wilson: You know, I would start with AI actually, because if you're looking for a particular issue, it might be addressed in three or four different chapters of our code. And AI will help you identify the three or four different chapters in which that topic is discussed. So I would actually recommend AI. Our code is certainly accessible, but it's an old code in many respects and it's not always common laid out in a common sense way. MyRye.com: Yeah, I still think we have the Tying horses up at the saloon. I think there's that's in there somewhere, right? You have to tie your horse up, okay. so this is a quick commercial break. I want to ask our audience if you have a topic or person that you'd like to hear on the MyARI.com podcast conversation with Doug French, just email me at French at MyRai.com or just let me know around town. I ran into listeners from the Rye, New Hampshire area. And so local issues are universal. So please keep those suggestions coming and keep listening. Kristen Wilson: Absolutely is, yes. MyRye.com: wherever you may live. So I did want to cover this and I know we we want to wrap up in a bit, but if you look at the if you watch the council meeting and the left side of the dais, you're coming up on sitting on the left side of that dais almost 20 years now, correct? Kristen Wilson: Yes, my my first city council meeting was in December of two thousand and six. So yeah, I've I've many Wednesday nights have been spent in city hall chambers. MyRye.com: I that's just I I think that's me being as close to you as I am, I was astounded to see that. that a great accomplishment. any advice for young lawyers coming up? Kristen Wilson: Newly minted lawyers or those in law school are thinking about it, I would I would highly recommend finding something that you're passionate about. and that will make your career so much more worthwhile. Law school teaches you how to think differently, and That is certainly usable you can use that skill across many different careers, but if you are passionate about whether it's immigration law or criminal, take as many courses as you as you can in that and then try and get as much experience, hands-on experience as possible. I wanted to do environmental and land use and and I'm very lucky that that's what I do most days. MyRye.com: Yeah. No, that that's great. And and people also do not know that you're an accomplished triathlete. any standout moments about your training or or events that you've been in? Kristen Wilson: sure, many. But I think the most memorable finish line is certainly the first Iron Man that I ever finished up in Lake Placid. that will always be a life-affirming moment, if you will. Go you're in a pretty dark place and you cross that finish line and then you realize Wow, I just did it and the camaraderie you have with three thousand other strangers is second to none. and then I've had the benefit and blessing of being able to race in Kona and that is it's brutal and beautiful at the same time, but there are it certainly makes you realize what you can what you can accomplish if you put your mind and and and heart through it. So MyRye.com: Yeah, and that's Hawaii, correct? Yeah. And the wind, you're telling me the wind is constant resistance, right? It's not like over here. Kristen Wilson: It is, yes. No, the w it's it's like you're you're riding a bike through a powerful hairdryer the entire time. It's it's windy and it's hot and unrelenting. MyRye.com: So we're now going to pivot to our lightning round, which is just one word of short answers. And you mentioned your darkest moments. So first question is, what's the toughest part of being corporation counsel? Kristen Wilson: I would say the two words that come to mind are conflicts and prioritizing. MyRye.com: Gotcha. One word to describe advising the city council. Kristen Wilson: Hm. Dynamic. MyRye.com: Proudest legal accomplishment as as corp counsel. Kristen Wilson: You know, I would actually say resolving save the sound lawsuit. yeah. MyRye.com: Any favorite Iron Man, memory or race? Kristen Wilson: I I would say crossing that first finish line. I will say a couple of years ago I ran I raced Lake Placid and ironically my bib number was ten fifty one, which is City Hall's address. So I was getting a lot of comments from City Hall staff. MyRye.com: Yeah, that's that's awesome. favorite playlist artist when you're training? Kristen Wilson: No, I I would say U two or or and MyRye.com: Okay. Is there a favorite rye coffee that you use that you go to? Kristen Wilson: Petisserie because they have the best pastries too. MyRye.com: and do you have a suggestion for a topic or guest on this podcast? Kristen Wilson: You know, I d I do. I think I know you interviewed Judge Latwyn, but I I would say our first female city court judge is Judge Livingston, Valerie Livingston. And I recommend her because she was she has the perspective of being the assistant DA for Rye. And now she's on the other side of the bench. And so she might have some interesting perspectives to to share with you. MyRye.com: That's great, yeah. Well, thank you, Chris, and it was great to speak with you, get your insights. and and thank you to the service of the community, it's almost twenty years, so we're coming up on twenty years. if people want to contact you, not that they should since you're not the public's lawyer, what's the best way to contact you? Kristen Wilson: s shoot me an email, k wilson at ryan y dot gov. that's the best way. MyRye.com: And and to our listeners, you can find the full episode, transcripts, local news, and more at my ride.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe wherever you get podcasts. Thank you all for listening to the MyRide.com podcast, Conversations with Doug French. Kristen Wilson: Thank you.