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Matt Manning's Future in Detroit · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:11
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a Detroit Tigers podcast. I'm Kieran
0:15
Speaker 1: Steckley with me as always as a man who completely
0:18
Speaker 1: fills out the box on his ballot every single time
0:21
Speaker 1: with perfection. He is Cody, Stevenagan, how.
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Speaker 2: You doing doing good care? And I'm pretty fired about
0:26
Speaker 2: my pick for Oakland County water Commissioner, So yeah, did
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Speaker 2: my civic duty to vote. We encourage everyone else to
0:32
Speaker 2: go out there and vote here in the next couple
0:35
Speaker 2: of days.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you have already, kudos to you. And
0:38
Speaker 1: if you're waiting till election day, that's awesome too. That's
0:41
Speaker 1: what I'll be doing. And over the years, living out
0:45
Speaker 1: of state, blah blah blah, I voted pretty much every
0:47
Speaker 1: single way there is to vote. So yeah, it's always
0:50
Speaker 1: always a fun deal, always a fun deal, you know.
0:52
Speaker 1: I Actually I did have a weird thought. I was like,
0:54
Speaker 1: do you think like if you Cody like something of it?
0:58
Speaker 1: From Scott Harris's perspective, if there was a Steven Hagen
1:01
Speaker 1: running for president, regardless of what the politics were, would
1:05
Speaker 1: you like maybe like try to get a sign or
1:07
Speaker 1: something or like a T shirt because it's like, I
1:09
Speaker 1: don't know Stecley for president, David Agan for president, maybe
1:12
Speaker 1: it be you one day. I don't know, uh, but
1:15
Speaker 1: uh but yeah, I was like this Scott Harris, like
1:17
Speaker 1: I don't know what his politics are, but like, you know,
1:19
Speaker 1: Harris for president, thing like that's it's cool to have
1:22
Speaker 1: your name for president. I don't know.
1:24
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think it'd be best if like it
1:26
Speaker 2: were an obscure independent candidate that no one's going to
1:28
Speaker 2: remember exists in like twelve years. Then you can just
1:31
Speaker 2: break out like, hey, look at this cool sign I have.
1:33
Speaker 2: You know that would work out?
1:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a sucker for
1:40
Speaker 1: the kind of memorabilia stuff. Obviously, I love memorabilia politics included,
1:44
Speaker 1: Like I got Joe Biden stickers and Ted Cruz signs
1:47
Speaker 1: in my garage because they gave them to me and
1:49
Speaker 1: I'll always accept them. And I voted for neither one
1:51
Speaker 1: of them. So like, so there you go, like it's uh,
1:55
Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's a it's a it's a
1:56
Speaker 1: little momento from the times, you know what I mean.
1:59
Speaker 1: So I appreciate Maybe I'll pick up something on Tuesday.
2:02
Speaker 2: All right, all right, for those trying to pin down
2:04
Speaker 2: Kieron's politics or even more confused than ever, here we go.
2:08
Speaker 1: Kind of keep them guessing. Uh So, let's let' let's
2:12
Speaker 1: go back to the World Series as we have a handful,
2:14
Speaker 1: you know, a handful of times here on the on
2:16
Speaker 1: the podcast. And I'll tell you what. There was a
2:22
Speaker 1: time I'm just gonna go to that fifth Enny in
2:25
Speaker 1: Game five because I I I as it was unraveling,
2:30
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I I've kind of seen this
2:33
Speaker 1: movie before. Now, obviously nothing with the stakes of a
2:36
Speaker 1: World Series, but I've kind of seen like a team
2:39
Speaker 1: just kind of completely unravel. If you've been a Tiger
2:41
Speaker 1: span in the past decade plus, you you've experienced it.
2:44
Speaker 1: Obviously nothing to that scale. Like Aaron Jellige is not
2:49
Speaker 1: gonna It's like I always talk about the randomness of
2:51
Speaker 1: the game, Like Aaron Judge is not dropping that ball.
2:54
Speaker 1: He probably hasn't dropped that ball since he was a teenager.
2:56
Speaker 1: He's probably not gonna drop another one like that the
2:58
Speaker 1: rest of his career. You know, sometimes things happen and then,
3:03
Speaker 1: like you've made this reference before, Cody about like JV
3:07
Speaker 1: Baseball coaches just like running these drills like into into
3:10
Speaker 1: guys heads like the Rizzo cole play well like, oh
3:14
Speaker 1: you think you're too good for this? Remember the World Series?
3:17
Speaker 1: Ye know? So so yeah, I just, you know, congratulation
3:21
Speaker 1: to the Dodgers. I thought the Yankees would put up
3:23
Speaker 1: a better showing, even though I think it was a
3:25
Speaker 1: more competitive series than your typical five gamer. But you know, any,
3:30
Speaker 1: congrats to Jack Flaherty. It looked like you had a
3:33
Speaker 1: good time at the celebration. So any any thoughts on
3:36
Speaker 1: on the Fall Classic As we wrap up the twenty
3:38
Speaker 1: twenty four season and can officially move forward with the
3:41
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season.
3:44
Speaker 2: Man shout out to Jack Flaherty for his turn up
3:46
Speaker 2: in the parade, I mean legend. I think my respect
3:49
Speaker 2: for him just went up big time. Yeah, the Yankees
3:52
Speaker 2: were maddening to watch man in a way, A confirmed
3:56
Speaker 2: my thought that maybe there's a world where which Bowbriski
3:59
Speaker 2: look kates his game fast the Game four fastball up
4:02
Speaker 2: in a way, and the Tigers face the Yankees, and
4:06
Speaker 2: who's to say they couldn't have hung with that team
4:08
Speaker 2: because the Yankees leave a lot of meat on the
4:10
Speaker 2: bone and obviously that got exposed against a good team
4:14
Speaker 2: like the Dodgers. Kind of makes you appreciate the way
4:16
Speaker 2: the Tigers played in the final two months of the season,
4:19
Speaker 2: where they're just playing such clean baseball, take advantage of
4:22
Speaker 2: the things, as the Tigers like to say on the margins,
4:25
Speaker 2: running the bases, playing good defense. So now imagine you
4:29
Speaker 2: add some talent to this Tigers roster if you're able
4:32
Speaker 2: to continue to do the small things so well, because
4:34
Speaker 2: this team had no choice but to do the small
4:36
Speaker 2: things well this past season, like, then you could have
4:39
Speaker 2: a pretty interesting product. And the Dodgers are a great
4:41
Speaker 2: example of that. They run the bases really well, They
4:44
Speaker 2: for the most part, are a pretty good defensive team.
4:46
Speaker 2: They put a lot of pressure on the Yankees, force
4:49
Speaker 2: the Yankees to execute for the majority of that series.
4:52
Speaker 2: And then obviously now you look back, it's like, oh, yeah,
4:55
Speaker 2: they won that easily, right, Yeah.
4:58
Speaker 1: Well, you know, regards to like I was listening to
5:04
Speaker 1: like reactionary stuff from the New York media, and you know,
5:08
Speaker 1: Aaron Boone and Cashman aren't very popular, they haven't been
5:11
Speaker 1: for years. Obviously, not gonna be any major moves there after,
5:14
Speaker 1: you know, reaching the world series, but they always say
5:17
Speaker 1: these things like these the poor fundamental play is a
5:20
Speaker 1: reflection of you know, the coaching staff, which is headed
5:23
Speaker 1: by the manager obviously, and you know, blah blah blah,
5:26
Speaker 1: they go down this rabbit hole of thought that like,
5:28
Speaker 1: as a Tigers fan, if you're looking for another thing
5:30
Speaker 1: that kind of have a feather in your cap, is
5:33
Speaker 1: that no one's ever really gonna talk about your team
5:37
Speaker 1: that way, Like no one's gonna accuse the Tigers of
5:39
Speaker 1: not being well coached.
5:41
Speaker 2: You know, I think people are accusing them of that
5:43
Speaker 2: the entire first half of the season.
5:45
Speaker 1: Well well yes, and then yeah, on wasn't too long ago.
5:49
Speaker 1: We had to have you know, a J. Hinch weird conversations.
5:52
Speaker 1: Be thankful, be thankful he's there. But but yeah, and
5:59
Speaker 1: there's this postseason kind of taught me that there's multiple
6:04
Speaker 1: ways to win. And that's you know, postseason as a whole,
6:08
Speaker 1: multiple ways to I don't want to use the phrase
6:10
Speaker 1: skin a cat, but you know the phrase multiple ways
6:12
Speaker 1: to skin a cat. And and so like it gives
6:16
Speaker 1: me I felt better about the game coming out of
6:20
Speaker 1: this postseason than I did going in. So that that's
6:22
Speaker 1: a great thing all around. And real quick too on this,
6:27
Speaker 1: like Judge is getting creamed. I know, like he you know,
6:30
Speaker 1: he had the home run and all that stuff, but
6:32
Speaker 1: for the entirety of the postseason he's kind of been
6:35
Speaker 1: like the poster child of like what's wrong? Is he
6:37
Speaker 1: gonna be the next Don Mattingley who didn't really play,
6:41
Speaker 1: didn't play in the playoffs to have a bad playoff reputation?
6:44
Speaker 1: But some some people in New York are calling him
6:46
Speaker 1: mister June after Dave Winfield was mister May. So I'm
6:51
Speaker 1: kind of curious your perspective generally. Are you one of
6:53
Speaker 1: those people that adheres to the thought and not necessarily
6:56
Speaker 1: specific to Judge, but like, is there a such thing
6:58
Speaker 1: as like someone doesn't perform in the playoffs or is
7:01
Speaker 1: it more or less like like basically someone a choker
7:05
Speaker 1: or not basically your philosophy on that, because that's kind
7:08
Speaker 1: of like an old school thing to go by. It's
7:10
Speaker 1: not really like a data driven approach, you know, which
7:14
Speaker 1: is what we do now in baseball more so, but
7:16
Speaker 1: like sometimes people just don't have it in those key moments.
7:19
Speaker 1: I don't know.
7:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not like a huge believer in that, but
7:24
Speaker 2: sometimes there is something that, like, certain people are built
7:26
Speaker 2: for the moment better than others. Like I think we've
7:29
Speaker 2: seen that, Like, you know, as much as clutch gene
7:32
Speaker 2: isn't supposed to be a real thing in baseball, Like,
7:34
Speaker 2: I don't know, David Ortiz was pretty good at coming
7:37
Speaker 2: through in big moments in the postseason, you know, so, like,
7:40
Speaker 2: is there something to that? Sure, I don't think this
7:42
Speaker 2: means they are Aaron Judge is weak or he's a choker.
7:46
Speaker 2: You know, Alex Trodriguez got paanned for years for not
7:48
Speaker 2: performing in the playoffs in New York, and he actually
7:51
Speaker 2: had some okay playoff performances that were just kind of
7:53
Speaker 2: overshadowed by the negativity. You know. You can point to
7:58
Speaker 2: the small sample sizes or whatever, or Judge obviously struggled
8:01
Speaker 2: in the postseason, but he also had a couple of
8:03
Speaker 2: big homers. He had a homer off class a that
8:05
Speaker 2: Yankees might not be in the World Series if he
8:07
Speaker 2: and John Carlo don't go back to back off the
8:10
Speaker 2: best closer in the game, you know, And then you
8:12
Speaker 2: look at the other side. No one's really talking about
8:15
Speaker 2: how bad shoe Heeyotani was in the World Series, and
8:17
Speaker 2: granted the last couple of games he was playing through
8:19
Speaker 2: a shoulder injury. But Shoeyotani did not perform in the
8:23
Speaker 2: World Series, but his team won, so he's kind of
8:25
Speaker 2: not you know, those same questions aren't being applied to
8:28
Speaker 2: him in some ways. I think it's a little bit
8:31
Speaker 2: of an overblown narrative that you know, when you start
8:33
Speaker 2: watching baseball like it's a football game because it's the
8:37
Speaker 2: playoffs and every game matters, like, the perspective can easily
8:40
Speaker 2: get skewed.
8:42
Speaker 1: Do you have a strong stance on a response or
8:46
Speaker 1: responsibility pie chart for the Cole and Rizzo play, because
8:52
Speaker 1: I kind of thought I kind of went more like
8:54
Speaker 1: Cole's got to try to get there. But I kind
8:57
Speaker 1: of thought it was a little bit of a like Rizzo,
9:00
Speaker 1: I thought should have been more aggressive and taking the
9:02
Speaker 1: momentum toward the play or just me toward the base
9:06
Speaker 1: because regardless, that's like the better move to do an
9:09
Speaker 1: anticipation of something that could happen. That's monkey bets right there.
9:12
Speaker 1: That's not a slow runner. But I but but Cole's
9:16
Speaker 1: also got to go to the bag.
9:17
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm pretty aboard to criticize Garrett Cole for
9:21
Speaker 2: that that play train. You know, I saw Cole's comments
9:24
Speaker 2: after the game, mentioning like the spin of the ball
9:27
Speaker 2: and how weird it was hit, and there's like, what
9:31
Speaker 2: does that have to do with you not being on
9:32
Speaker 2: first base? Like, I mean, Garrett Cole is an ultimate competitor.
9:35
Speaker 2: So I don't want to use the word excuse, but
9:37
Speaker 2: I was kind of I didn't love like how he
9:40
Speaker 2: addressed the play after the game. I just think he's
9:43
Speaker 2: got to be at first base, or at least making
9:44
Speaker 2: an effort to be at first base instead of standing still.
9:47
Speaker 2: The last thing you can be doing in that situation
9:50
Speaker 2: when Mookie Betts is busting down the line is standing
9:53
Speaker 2: still and pointing at your first basement. Oh go go
9:55
Speaker 2: get the bag. I thought I thought it was a
9:57
Speaker 2: pretty bad look.
9:58
Speaker 1: Yeah it is a bad look. There's no that about that.
10:00
Speaker 1: But uh well yeah, so everybody keep up with the
10:06
Speaker 1: fundamentals that would be that that would be a lesson,
10:08
Speaker 1: that would be a lesson from that game, even the
10:11
Speaker 1: you know, the BULTI play just tough play, but still
10:14
Speaker 1: a fundamental aspect to that. So gots congratulations to the
10:18
Speaker 1: Dodgers and uh and we'll see what happens in the
10:22
Speaker 1: Flarity Sweepstakes. What a year for him, What a year
10:25
Speaker 1: for Flarity. Congrats to Flarity again, because I didn't know
10:28
Speaker 1: if he was going to be a starter. Ever again
10:30
Speaker 1: pitches at near our all star level, gets traded, wins
10:33
Speaker 1: the World Series, and he's a free agent again. So uh,
10:36
Speaker 1: couldn't could not have been scripted better for your boy?
10:39
Speaker 1: Jack there? All right, let's move on to another topic
10:45
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes here, Cody, Uh, you know we
10:48
Speaker 1: mentioned the election earlier, and I started thinking. I was like,
10:51
Speaker 1: you know, the Tigers have a pretty like, you know,
10:55
Speaker 1: an amazing storyline and a former player and Jim Bunning
10:58
Speaker 1: who was a Hall of Fame pitch and then went
11:00
Speaker 1: on to be a senator. I believe it was a senator.
11:03
Speaker 1: And like, if you're a senator, then I think you're
11:06
Speaker 1: at least partially qualified, just in general on the resume
11:10
Speaker 1: to like be president or like run for pres be
11:13
Speaker 1: considered for president. I would say, not necessarily be president,
11:15
Speaker 1: but be considered for president. So I was like, oh, no,
11:18
Speaker 1: is there yea what would have been like when he
11:21
Speaker 1: first went to politics to be like, oh, yeah, Jim Bunny,
11:23
Speaker 1: the guy who like, you know, saw him throw a
11:25
Speaker 1: no hitter or whatever. So like, is there anybody on
11:29
Speaker 1: this team that you deem presidential, this current Tigers team,
11:32
Speaker 1: because you know, speaking of you know Flaherty who was
11:35
Speaker 1: a Union rep. That's a leadership, right, Uh you know,
11:39
Speaker 1: that's that's something that you know to be taken into consideration.
11:42
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, it seems like everybody loves
11:45
Speaker 1: Jay hen Now it seems like he's he's he's a
11:47
Speaker 1: guy that you know, everyone just kind of like has
11:50
Speaker 1: good feelings with and a lot of times these elections
11:53
Speaker 1: are feelings based, you know what I mean. And uh,
11:56
Speaker 1: so that was something there like Matt vere Lan's got
11:59
Speaker 1: movie stars and politician good looks. There's no there's no
12:01
Speaker 1: doubt about that. And you know, someone as kind of
12:05
Speaker 1: like a deep thinker, as like a Casey Mice like
12:07
Speaker 1: kind of came to mind a little bit, someone who
12:10
Speaker 1: you could tell like really processes like every move he makes,
12:15
Speaker 1: you know, and uh and so so yeah, I was,
12:18
Speaker 1: I was, you know, those are just some names. There's
12:20
Speaker 1: some names there. Do you have any you're you're you
12:22
Speaker 1: interact with these guys, you see them cameras on camera's off,
12:26
Speaker 1: any kind of Tigers that you think you know that
12:30
Speaker 1: a little bit of a presidential vibe there.
12:33
Speaker 2: Uh, well, my mind naturally goes to when the Tigers
12:35
Speaker 2: first hired their manager and I called is the best
12:38
Speaker 2: man in his wedding Birdie van wagon In. I said,
12:40
Speaker 2: what do you think the first time you met Aj Hinch?
12:42
Speaker 2: And he said presidential. AJ's got the presidential vibe a
12:47
Speaker 2: little bit. Can handle himself in front of a camera,
12:49
Speaker 2: can I always say and do the right thing? Knows
12:52
Speaker 2: how to manage people. Uh, that's that's a pretty natural
12:56
Speaker 2: choice right there. Obviously leadership experience. If we're going players, Yeah,
13:00
Speaker 2: I think he nailed it. Jahen Man, He's got the
13:03
Speaker 2: great charisma. Matt Vierling, He's even Catholic. He could be
13:07
Speaker 2: a Kennedy at least went to Notre Dame. I feel
13:11
Speaker 2: like I'm destined somehow get in trouble if we speculate
13:14
Speaker 2: too much about like politics or religion in here. So
13:18
Speaker 2: trying to think if there's anyone you know we're overlooking case.
13:20
Speaker 2: He Mize definitely has kind of the right politician level
13:24
Speaker 2: of Polish. But I don't know. It's twenty twenty four.
13:27
Speaker 2: All bets are off. What's not to say Jake Rodgers
13:30
Speaker 2: can't be president.
13:31
Speaker 1: There you go, Jake Rogers. It's been a while since
13:33
Speaker 1: we've had a mustache president. You know, maybe he can
13:37
Speaker 1: bring that back. So yeah, it's you know, I did
13:42
Speaker 1: like that you brought up aj there, because you know,
13:44
Speaker 1: there's also the education element with the Stanford you know
13:47
Speaker 1: ever ever heard of? It represented the United States of
13:52
Speaker 1: America as well during his playing days, and obviously knows
13:57
Speaker 1: how to handle people. I was admit, when I thought
14:01
Speaker 1: about aj Hnschell was imagining like him getting heated in
14:04
Speaker 1: like a cabinet meeting. The only example of what I
14:08
Speaker 1: could use is like maybe when he's arguing with an umpire,
14:11
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, how would he be
14:15
Speaker 1: when someone screws up and you know, you know, one
14:17
Speaker 1: of the departments or whatever. So I'm sure he would
14:20
Speaker 1: be very I mean, he's presidential now, like he so
14:23
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a natural fit there. But but yeah,
14:27
Speaker 1: I mean it'd be. It's always interesting. There's more and
14:31
Speaker 1: more of these guys getting into politics now. So it's
14:34
Speaker 1: as funny in hokey as this segment is. It's really
14:37
Speaker 1: not out of the realm of possibility though, somebody tries
14:39
Speaker 1: to run for governor or something, you know.
14:41
Speaker 2: So yeah, I know, just after this segment, I think
14:44
Speaker 2: I'm ready for the hot stove to begin beating up.
14:47
Speaker 2: I don't know why we just spent like three minutes
14:49
Speaker 2: on that, but hopefully a couple of people got got
14:52
Speaker 2: some laughs out of it, you know.
14:53
Speaker 3: Yeah.
14:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you got a suggestion or an idea,
14:57
Speaker 1: shoot us on X. Cody's at Cody Stavenhagen. I'm at
15:00
Speaker 1: Kieran Uniscourse Decley pod page is at Tiger Territory Underscore.
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Speaker 1: all right, let's move on to a guy that we
16:36
Speaker 1: haven't talked about been a long time, mister Cody Matt
16:44
Speaker 1: Manning sort of a sort of a favorite topic of
16:48
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm like, you know, what's up with Matt Manning.
16:53
Speaker 1: What's the deal with Matt Manning? Always good filler when
16:59
Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out the future of this team,
17:01
Speaker 1: And now the question is a little bit different. So
17:03
Speaker 1: we didn't see him. How many games did he play?
17:07
Speaker 1: He played, he pitched, He made five starts. Did you
17:10
Speaker 1: really think that, even when when he like lost the
17:14
Speaker 1: back end rotation job, that he would make just five
17:19
Speaker 1: starts in the in the big leagues in twenty twenty four,
17:23
Speaker 1: because that number, I mean, it makes sense when you recall,
17:26
Speaker 1: but like, there's no way we were like pitchers get hurt,
17:29
Speaker 1: He's going to be here a lot, and he was
17:31
Speaker 1: literally just a spot starter for the Tigers, you know.
17:35
Speaker 1: Uh so, so, Yeah, thoughts on Matt Manning.
17:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of strange to look back when his year
17:42
Speaker 2: he actually had a really good spring training, lost in
17:45
Speaker 2: a very compete he did competition, you know, losing that
17:48
Speaker 2: spot to Casey miz and Reese Olsen. But I definitely
17:51
Speaker 2: thought he would have made more than five starts or
17:53
Speaker 2: thrown more innings than he did, especially when you consider
17:56
Speaker 2: he was basically serving as a de facto sixth starter.
17:59
Speaker 2: They early in the year, the Tigers kept having rain outs,
18:02
Speaker 2: and he kept getting the call. It seemed like one
18:04
Speaker 2: week after another, and those first couple outings he threw
18:08
Speaker 2: pretty well. Now as the year went on, things weren't
18:12
Speaker 2: so good, and he struggled a little bit in Toledo
18:15
Speaker 2: and the stuff wasn't there and he just could not
18:17
Speaker 2: you know, similar things we've seen the velo, the breaking ball,
18:21
Speaker 2: looking for the second shape with his breaking ball. A
18:26
Speaker 2: little bit of a frustrating year. I think he battled
18:29
Speaker 2: some minor health issues toward the end of the season,
18:32
Speaker 2: and so it does kind of leave him, would seem
18:35
Speaker 2: like out of the rotation discussion entering a new year.
18:38
Speaker 2: This is a guy who was one of the tent
18:41
Speaker 2: poles of this initial rebuild it was supposed to be,
18:45
Speaker 2: and now he's been in this organization a long time.
18:48
Speaker 2: He's never really turned the corner like you would hope.
18:53
Speaker 2: How long have I been saying, Matt Manning to the
18:55
Speaker 2: bullpen makes a lot of sense. I was saying it
18:57
Speaker 2: privately even before I started saying it public. I don't
19:01
Speaker 2: know for sure if that's the plan, but it would
19:02
Speaker 2: sure seem like that has to be the plan. And
19:05
Speaker 2: I'll just reiterate why I think it's a great idea.
19:07
Speaker 2: Here's a guy who's fastball velocity is always fluctuated, been
19:11
Speaker 2: up and down. We've seen this guy throw upper nineties
19:15
Speaker 2: and we've also seen him throw like ninety two. Let
19:18
Speaker 2: him come out of the pin. Let them just rip it.
19:20
Speaker 2: You know, max effort fastball. Throw as many fastballs as
19:23
Speaker 2: you want. You're not gonna see these heads the second time.
19:25
Speaker 2: We know the fastball can be an effective pitch at
19:28
Speaker 2: the major league level. It has been, and the numbers
19:30
Speaker 2: back that up. The inconsistencies with the breaking ball still
19:33
Speaker 2: a little bit of a concern, but you don't need
19:36
Speaker 2: that third pitch. You don't really need to mess around
19:38
Speaker 2: with a change up or maybe even kind of the
19:41
Speaker 2: slider and the sweeper. Go rip your slider as hard
19:44
Speaker 2: as you want, or go throw a big looping sweep,
19:47
Speaker 2: or just throw your best breaking ball. Keep that in
19:49
Speaker 2: your back pocket. You can live off your fastball. I
19:52
Speaker 2: think there's still a world in which Matt Mannon could
19:54
Speaker 2: become a really effective relief pitcher if the Tigers are
19:58
Speaker 2: willing to make that move, and if Matt Manning himself
20:02
Speaker 2: is willing to embrace that and not let his ego
20:04
Speaker 2: go in the way of what could end up being
20:06
Speaker 2: a really good career transition for him.
20:10
Speaker 3: Yeah.
20:10
Speaker 1: I mean you just look at the numbers, you know,
20:12
Speaker 1: fun fact randomly, you know, and those five stars for
20:15
Speaker 1: were against National League teams, Like he bitched against Minnesota
20:18
Speaker 1: and that was it. From the junior circuit. You know,
20:21
Speaker 1: he got into the sixth ending the majority of these starts.
20:26
Speaker 1: He went six and two thirds. On April seventeenth against
20:29
Speaker 1: the said Twins. You look at the strikeouts, he had
20:32
Speaker 1: three in the first outing, but seven seven, five, and
20:35
Speaker 1: then you know kind of all she wrote there with
20:37
Speaker 1: the with the one punch out against Arizona and he
20:39
Speaker 1: hadn't pitched. He never got back to the major leagues
20:41
Speaker 1: after May nineteenth. Wow, like talk about just sort of
20:45
Speaker 1: like I don't want to say out of sight, out
20:48
Speaker 1: of mind, but like this was a major league operation
20:51
Speaker 1: that was rolling like moving on from.
20:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, when the Tigers, I think they had another spot
20:57
Speaker 2: start opportunity and they called up cater Onto for his
21:00
Speaker 2: debut in sad of Matt Manning, and that kind of
21:03
Speaker 2: told you what you needed to know about how the
21:05
Speaker 2: organization viewed Matt.
21:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, stuck with Montero, So like I mean, it has
21:12
Speaker 1: to be one of those deals where he's just not
21:16
Speaker 1: a pure speculation on my part, so I'm not like
21:18
Speaker 1: reporting anything, but he's just not taking or making the
21:22
Speaker 1: adjustments that are being asked of him. And so therefore,
21:26
Speaker 1: like he you have to work those out in triple
21:29
Speaker 1: A because there was obviously, i mean, bullpends anybody. There
21:33
Speaker 1: was obviously opportunities for Matt Manning to start games for
21:37
Speaker 1: the Tigers post trade deadline, you know, and we just didn't.
21:43
Speaker 1: The operation just kind of kept moving on without him.
21:46
Speaker 1: I think it would be I think it would be
21:49
Speaker 1: great if he were to, you know, go with this
21:52
Speaker 1: like reliever route, because he just seems like a I know,
21:55
Speaker 1: it's an ego thing like you said, and the failed starter,
21:59
Speaker 1: you know, T shirt ocre or whatever. But if he
22:01
Speaker 1: just kind of comes out and throws gas, because some
22:03
Speaker 1: of those starts he could tell he knew. He was, like,
22:05
Speaker 1: my job is to come here and just like and
22:08
Speaker 1: just like throw gas, like use it, get as many
22:10
Speaker 1: aims as possible, save the bullpen. Uh, you know, there's
22:14
Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote like no tomorrow or whatever, you
22:16
Speaker 1: know what I mean, So just let go and and
22:20
Speaker 1: that's a role that he can be a valuable asset
22:25
Speaker 1: to a team for and that, and and at a
22:28
Speaker 1: certain point, you know, he's look where is he. He's
22:31
Speaker 1: he's gonna turn twenty seven. He's gonna be twenty seven
22:35
Speaker 1: by the time he reports for spring training. Like he's
22:38
Speaker 1: not a he's not really a pupp anymore.
22:41
Speaker 3: No.
22:41
Speaker 1: So, so like at a certain point, like this is
22:45
Speaker 1: your route, dude, in my opinion, and I think, like
22:48
Speaker 1: other words, I'm sure if he already become available in
22:51
Speaker 1: some fashion, like other organizations would be interested.
22:54
Speaker 5: Uh.
22:54
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like if I was I
22:57
Speaker 1: don't know, like the Angels or something, I'd be like, well,
23:01
Speaker 1: they couldn't get the most out of him over in
23:04
Speaker 1: Detroit with that coach, with that manager, with those you
23:07
Speaker 1: know guys in the front office, the coaching staff and
23:10
Speaker 1: the miners, Like do we have the confidence we're gonna
23:14
Speaker 1: be able to do that? Like you better be really sure. So,
23:18
Speaker 1: I the Tigers are more entertaining when Matt Manning is
23:22
Speaker 1: in his six foot six self is on the mound
23:24
Speaker 1: and and you know, throwing the slider, throwing gas, you know,
23:27
Speaker 1: his little kind of oh yeah, you know, you know
23:30
Speaker 1: what I mean? So, like I, I would love to
23:33
Speaker 1: see him on the team, but the team situation has
23:38
Speaker 1: for sure passed his development arc by I think is
23:41
Speaker 1: a fair way to put it.
23:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't think there's any doubt about that.
23:44
Speaker 2: This would seem like a make or break year for
23:47
Speaker 2: Manning coming up in the Tigers organization, and you would
23:49
Speaker 2: think that's going to have to require some level of evolution.
23:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, real quick here, Cody, I I mentioned this
23:59
Speaker 1: probably episode, but it's one of those things that, like
24:02
Speaker 1: I just my mind keeps going there, so I want
24:04
Speaker 1: to keep talking about it, like if we were to
24:07
Speaker 1: We're not gonna do this right now, but like eventually
24:10
Speaker 1: this offseason, we're probably gonna do something called like are
24:13
Speaker 1: we sure? Like are we sure? X? And one of
24:16
Speaker 1: them is gonna be Dylan Dingler. So I actually look
24:19
Speaker 1: this up because I was like, how important is Dingler
24:24
Speaker 1: potentially for next year? So Carson Kelly obviously traded four
24:30
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago and kept on before being
24:33
Speaker 1: traded this past year. Carson Kelly, how many games did
24:37
Speaker 1: he play? Let's see, I was looking this up. Carson
24:40
Speaker 1: Kelly played in Now this is not starts, but he
24:42
Speaker 1: played in sixty games, he had two hundred and three
24:45
Speaker 1: played appearances. That's and for you know, we'll say half
24:50
Speaker 1: the season, you know what I mean Like that, that's
24:52
Speaker 1: not nothing like that's that and again that's not all start.
24:56
Speaker 1: Some of that's you know, some pinch hit stuff come
25:00
Speaker 1: in for an ending after Rogers gets you know, pinch
25:02
Speaker 1: hit forward, you know whatever. So, like I'm saying, he
25:05
Speaker 1: started sixty games, but he was a valuable member of
25:09
Speaker 1: that team and a reliable member of the team while
25:12
Speaker 1: he was here. That's why he was able to be
25:13
Speaker 1: traded forward to a team that still had World Series aspirations,
25:16
Speaker 1: right ex Ranger. So the Dingler thing, that's, man, I
25:22
Speaker 1: gotta say a stupid pun. That's Dingler is dangling over
25:26
Speaker 1: my mind like a lot because I'm like, I hope,
25:31
Speaker 1: but like, in terms of anxiety level about whether it
25:36
Speaker 1: could work, I think it's kind of high. I think
25:39
Speaker 1: it's kind of high because we just don't have as
25:41
Speaker 1: much evidence of like that role. And we've talked about before,
25:44
Speaker 1: but I went and looked up how much Carson Kelly
25:46
Speaker 1: was used.
25:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that we're bringing this up a second
25:49
Speaker 2: time already in the off season because it does feel
25:52
Speaker 2: a little bit like Parker Meadows at the start of
25:55
Speaker 2: last year, like he was Everyone's just like, oh, he'll
25:57
Speaker 2: be the center fielder. It's kind of like, are we sure?
26:00
Speaker 2: And obviously Parker had to go get sent down and
26:03
Speaker 2: now we're entering spring fielding great about Parker again, but
26:06
Speaker 2: this is very much Dylan Diggler or whoever is the
26:08
Speaker 2: Tiger's backup catcher is going to have to play a
26:11
Speaker 2: substantial amount. It's not to mention the fact that Tigers
26:14
Speaker 2: went all last season without any injuries any with either
26:19
Speaker 2: Jake Rodgers or Carson Kelly or Dylan Dingler. That just
26:21
Speaker 2: doesn't happen at the catcher position very often. So whoever's
26:25
Speaker 2: your number two, and assuming it's gonna be Dingler, like
26:27
Speaker 2: there is some responsibility. You can't walk into that and
26:31
Speaker 2: hit one. I mean, maybe you can at the catcher
26:34
Speaker 2: position hit one fifty, but ideally you're gonna want a
26:38
Speaker 2: little more production, you know. I think because you do
26:42
Speaker 2: have someone who in theory is in a pretty established
26:45
Speaker 2: number one in Jake Rodgers, a Gold Glove finalist like that,
26:49
Speaker 2: they can probably live with it if he's not really producing.
26:53
Speaker 2: But also given the volatility in Jake Rogers bat it
26:55
Speaker 2: would be nice to have a little bit more of
26:58
Speaker 2: a sure thing. So, like I said before, I'm sure
27:00
Speaker 2: they'll bring in someone else, whether it's probably I would
27:04
Speaker 2: guess a minor league deal, but they do have to
27:07
Speaker 2: have some sort of backup plan in case Dingler just
27:10
Speaker 2: looks like a guy who needs a little bit more seasoning,
27:13
Speaker 2: because he certainly looked that way in the short sample
27:16
Speaker 2: we got of him in the big leagues this year.
27:19
Speaker 2: I think it's an underrated topic that could just become
27:22
Speaker 2: a big deal by you know, late in spring training.
27:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And another another example of all right, made
27:33
Speaker 1: the playoffs, it's no longer just kind of treading water
27:36
Speaker 1: time like ascension time, and who will kind of be left,
27:41
Speaker 1: you know, in the dust. I guess potentially like that.
27:44
Speaker 1: That stuff certainly exists, all right, real quick, as we
27:47
Speaker 1: wrap up here, Cody on a November Sunday, So we
27:54
Speaker 1: are officially into the off season with the World Series
27:57
Speaker 1: wrapping up. That means procedure roll things. And the most
28:03
Speaker 1: notable is on Monday. I believe Monday.
28:06
Speaker 2: It's Monday coming.
28:06
Speaker 1: Up, Monday, Tigers listening. Yeah, it's true. So Tigers have
28:12
Speaker 1: some sixty sixty day il moves to make. That would
28:17
Speaker 1: be Sawyer Gibson Long. Another guy I was like, Man,
28:19
Speaker 1: haven't thought about him in a while. Brendan White, Alex Fayato.
28:23
Speaker 1: Obviously those are three pitchers and one Javier Bayaz.
28:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna see a little bit of roster movement here,
28:31
Speaker 2: probably in the in the next twenty four hours. Those
28:33
Speaker 2: four guys have to either be placed back on the
28:36
Speaker 2: sixty or you know, removed from the roster. Javey Baias.
28:41
Speaker 2: I know some of you guys aren't gonna like this,
28:42
Speaker 2: but he's a lock. Sawyer Gibson Long, you know, he's
28:45
Speaker 2: recovering from injury. Tigers definitely want to keep him. Alex Fayetoh,
28:49
Speaker 2: he's been a pretty productive player. Tiger's going to keep him.
28:52
Speaker 2: I think the interesting one is Brendan White. Brendan White
28:57
Speaker 2: really struggled this year and then he was placed on
28:59
Speaker 2: the sixty day with a right elbow sprain. Did he
29:04
Speaker 2: end up getting Tommy John? Do we even know the
29:06
Speaker 2: answer to that? Look this up live, have the producers
29:11
Speaker 2: check it here.
29:14
Speaker 1: I don't think he did am I wrong.
29:16
Speaker 2: A right radial nerve injury. That's right. He had a
29:19
Speaker 2: hydro dissection procedure, so a little bit tough to even know.
29:24
Speaker 2: I would assume you know what his health status is
29:29
Speaker 2: that kind of It looks like he's expected to have
29:32
Speaker 2: a standard offseason strengthen conditioning program. He threw a bullpen
29:36
Speaker 2: in September. So there's the latest one. Brendan White. He
29:39
Speaker 2: would seem like the guy the Tigers probably not gonna keep.
29:43
Speaker 2: I think in maybe another world, even a couple of
29:45
Speaker 2: years ago, to type dude who could stay on the
29:48
Speaker 2: forty man roster, because it wasn't all that long ago.
29:50
Speaker 2: He was a little bit of a reliever on the rise.
29:53
Speaker 2: Another late round pick, twenty six round pick, in fact,
29:57
Speaker 2: came out of nowhere. Pitch Well in the mind, has
30:00
Speaker 2: really nasty stuff, a sweeper that averaged twenty eight hundred
30:04
Speaker 2: rpm and has averaged even more than that, a good slider.
30:09
Speaker 2: His fastball doesn't get talked about a lot, and in
30:11
Speaker 2: his short big league stint in twenty twenty three, opponents
30:15
Speaker 2: at won sixty two against his fastball. So I think
30:19
Speaker 2: he would like to keep Brennan White in the organization,
30:21
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure. Given other moves you have to make,
30:23
Speaker 2: you can keep a forty man spot for him. I
30:28
Speaker 2: have a hunch he's probably going to be removed from
30:31
Speaker 2: this roster here, and then kind of the question is
30:34
Speaker 2: would someone else take a chance on him via waivers,
30:36
Speaker 2: especially given maybe a little bit of uncertainty about his health.
30:40
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I you know, I like Brendan
30:42
Speaker 2: White a lot. I think he has a lot of potential.
30:44
Speaker 2: It was a difficult year for him, for sure, even
30:48
Speaker 2: when he's pitching in the minor leagues. He just was
30:50
Speaker 2: not right, did not have good numbers. He had a
30:54
Speaker 2: seven three six ERA, and well he only threw eight
30:57
Speaker 2: games in the minors, seven innings. He was hurt most
30:59
Speaker 2: of the So I think that'll be kind of the
31:02
Speaker 2: more interesting one to both watch here on Monday and
31:05
Speaker 2: maybe follow going forward this offseason.
31:08
Speaker 1: Happy early birthday to Brendan Waye, who will turn twenty
31:12
Speaker 1: six on the eighteenth of this month. So there you go.
31:15
Speaker 1: So always got to bring up the age with these
31:16
Speaker 1: guys that shape shapes shapes perspective there for sure. All right,
31:21
Speaker 1: I want to make a little bit of an announcement here.
31:24
Speaker 1: We will have a podcast as we have been doing
31:28
Speaker 1: on Thursday morning, and it will be with one Jason Bennetti,
31:32
Speaker 1: the Tigers TV voice, A very busy man. If you're
31:38
Speaker 1: a fan of college and NFL football as well as
31:40
Speaker 1: college basketball, we might have to ask him like do
31:44
Speaker 1: you have any time to yourself? But obviously a great
31:48
Speaker 1: addition to the Tigers and one of those things that
31:51
Speaker 1: like in retrospect like kind of like, oh, they made
31:56
Speaker 1: the playoffs that year and they also hired Jasonnette. They
31:58
Speaker 1: kind of like rise at the same time, where in
32:00
Speaker 1: real time those things didn't seem like they were going
32:03
Speaker 1: to be in lockstep, you know. So Tigers fans obviously
32:07
Speaker 1: very lucky to have Jason and we are happy to
32:10
Speaker 1: be able to have him on. We thank him for
32:12
Speaker 1: his time in advance. So any l's Cody before we
32:16
Speaker 1: jet out of you.
32:16
Speaker 2: No, I think that's it. We'll talk to you guys
32:19
Speaker 2: here in a couple of days. And yeah, very excited
32:21
Speaker 2: to have Jason on to reflect with his on his
32:23
Speaker 2: first year with the Tigers and much more.
32:26
Speaker 1: All right, Well, you can follow Cody on x forming
32:29
Speaker 1: known as Twitter at Cody Stavemanhagen, I am at Kieran
32:31
Speaker 1: him score Steckley pod page at Tiger Territory underscore. We
32:35
Speaker 1: are also on YouTube, trying to grow that as much
32:37
Speaker 1: as possible, and we have links to all that stuff
32:41
Speaker 1: on our socials as well. So wherever you are, we
32:45
Speaker 1: are and we thank you for listening. So for Cody Stavenhagen,
32:49
Speaker 1: I am Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have a great week.