Latest / The Unmaking / S01E04: Tony “Buzz” Burrows. Pendant light designer

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S01E04: Tony “Buzz” Burrows. Pendant light designer · The Unmaking

0:14
SPEAKER_01: So Buzz, welcome to The Unmaking.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Where are we parked right now?
0:19
SPEAKER_01: What are we looking at for our audio-only listeners?
0:22
SPEAKER_01: And what's the significance of this place to you?
0:26
SPEAKER_00: We're parked near Lake Hawea.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: We're looking north to the mountains around the lake, so Corner Peak.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: It's a really dramatic, jagged, brown central Otago
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landscape we bought this bit of dirt about five years ago built
0:49
a built a house on
0:50
it three years ago and that was just a project with my wife and
0:54
I and the last of
0:56
SPEAKER_00: our kids that were still around but it was my wife and I's project and
1:04
Yeah just wanted to create a space that sort of suited us and
1:08
had our character
1:10
building a house and landscaping as a really creative journey
1:14
you know and so it's
1:16
it's been a really fun challenge we've sort of built a energy
1:20
efficient home and
1:21
thought hard about you know got solar and used a lot of passive
1:26
house principles in
1:27
SPEAKER_00: the construction of the house so
1:30
techniques that conserve energy and make the living environment
1:33
comfortable we
1:34
didn't go fully passive but we went a long day long way down
1:37
the passive road and
1:38
we've just been chipping away at sort of landscaping areas you
1:43
know when and when
1:44
we have time and cash and stuff like that so it's been it's
1:48
been a very cool
1:49
journey really love this really love the location really love
1:52
the house yeah really
1:54
SPEAKER_00: enjoy it spend a lot of time here so i need to enjoy it yeah
2:00
Take me back to the beginning of your working life you had a
2:03
fresh Bachelor of Arts
2:04
from Canterbury University and then you entered the film
2:08
industry I think so how
2:09
did that start what was that job actually about and yeah so I
2:16
didn't know well I my
2:18
SPEAKER_00: old man was in the army he was a professional soldier and I kind of
2:22
Always thought I wanted to go in the army basically I was um
2:27
quite a dyslexic guy
2:29
as a lot of people in creative industries are excuse me and so
2:34
I didn't quite know
2:36
what I was going to do but I sort of started thinking actually
2:38
I'm not sure I want
2:39
to go in the army because I don't know if killing people is
2:41
entirely ethical as a
2:44
SPEAKER_00: 17 year old so I sort of
2:48
told my parents my parents friends I was going to do a law
2:50
degree seemed to get a
2:52
good response so enrolled in law from your parents yeah from
2:55
everybody but then
2:57
when I started doing well being dyslexic something I can't
3:00
really read or write
3:01
particularly well that was a bad mistake so I managed to sort
3:06
of pull out an e
3:09
Out of the Hat for that one but I'd sort of passed all my other
3:11
papers so I just
3:12
decided to do a BA and pick the most interesting papers I could
3:17
find at university
3:18
so I ended up with a degree sort of in American Studies and
3:23
Political Science that
3:24
was a dual major which is great you know American Studies is
3:27
really cool American
3:29
Literature American Film American History American Politics
3:32
kind of relevant in
3:33
SPEAKER_00: these times
3:35
But you know I think that I sort of wanted a life where I had
3:38
adventure I did
3:40
creative stuff so I worked with pictures I was in the outdoors
3:45
So the film industry
3:46
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know anything about it Had no experience whatsoever but
3:53
you know that seemed like it ticked the things I wanted was
3:57
adventure and so I sort
4:00
of I went off to Australia sort of crewed on a 50 foot catch
4:04
for a while sailed
4:05
around the Kimberlees then went to London ended up in Wardour
4:10
Street which is a
4:10
really famous film production street in Soho in London working
4:15
for Outlook at the
4:16
Moving Picture Company and I was a runner and you end up
4:20
delivering magnetic tapes
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SPEAKER_00: around town
4:23
When I was sort of delivering magnetic tapes one day bumped
4:25
into this Irish
4:26
receptionist this girl and she said they're starting up a music
4:30
television station
4:32
and it was it was the first it was before MTV had got to Europe
4:36
so they just
4:37
launched satellite broadcasting in England so they had five
4:41
channels and it was
4:42
Richard Branson's business partner decided to set up a music
4:46
television station so
4:48
SPEAKER_00: he sort of picked out
4:49
You know the best of the music journalism industry and created
4:53
a staff of about a
4:54
hundred so I sort of got in there and well I went and met the
5:01
the sort of director
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SPEAKER_00: of the editorial director and said I was keen and
5:07
She says well all the places are gone but we do have one
5:10
position left for a
5:11
scooter courier different tapes so I said yeah I'll do that but
5:15
fortunately they
5:16
hadn't done the interview so I went through the interview
5:19
process for each show and
5:19
I ended up on the night show which is a great show and the
5:24
presenter was Sykes from
5:25
Madness have you ever heard of band Madness One Step Beyond
5:29
that sort of scar so he
5:31
was the sort of presenter and so I worked in that show and that
5:35
was fantastic you
5:35
SPEAKER_00: know he was a
5:37
A really charismatic great guy used to rock in at about two in
5:43
the afternoon the
5:43
show we'd become filming the show at about sort of six at night
5:47
and he had sort of
5:48
dictate a script and just wing it and I mean he probably won't
5:51
appreciate me
5:52
telling that story but he was actually a fantastic gentleman a
5:56
really good guy
5:57
So I worked there Became floor manager Really enjoyed that It
6:00
was sort of I'd
6:00
describe it as a sort of B-grade celebrities of the music
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industry Lots of You know
6:09
Lots of live performances Sun Ra The sort of Alternative jazz
6:15
magician Hugh Mascala
6:17
And you know Iggy Pop And the guy from Primal Skin All these
6:20
guys just came through
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SPEAKER_00: And did performances And
6:23
Boy George had a show there and he sort of his show focused on
6:27
the sort of risky
6:29
well you know sort of the not underworld as in crime but the
6:32
sort of the sort of
6:34
fetish world and all that sort of world of London and yeah it
6:39
was very good went
6:40
you know I became good friends with a cameraman who was a
6:45
Pakistani dude and he
6:47
SPEAKER_00: used to get me along to a lot of heavy dub
6:51
underground dub gigs where these Jamaican dudes would have big
6:54
sound systems and
6:55
illegal buildings and massive bass sessions and all that sort
7:00
of stuff which is the
7:01
world you want to experience when you go to London so that was
7:04
fun and then I went
7:08
and visited a production company in West London that made
7:13
wildlife films and said I
7:16
wanted to get involved with wildlife film production and they
7:19
said well as it goes
7:22
We've got a cameraman producer from Botswana in London editing
7:26
a film go and meet
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him so went to Africa for a year filmed in the Alcavanga Delta
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came back got a job
7:36
with Italian television ride duo working in their arts
7:41
department and then I'd been
7:43
away for about five years so I decided being super patriotic
7:46
about New Zealand I
7:47
SPEAKER_00: need to get back to New Zealand so I came back to New Zealand
7:50
Worked on probably New Zealand's first fishing show that sort
7:53
of toured all over
7:54
New Zealand and eventually I ended up doing some time in the
7:58
lighting department
7:59
because I wanted to learn about cinematography and proper
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lighting for drama so I
8:02
worked under a gaffer called Grant McKinnon who is a
8:07
cinematographer now who's
8:08
SPEAKER_00: pretty well known
8:10
Did some feature films and bits and pieces and for about four
8:14
or five years and you
8:15
know then shot a lot of documentaries music videos and then
8:20
eventually kind of
8:21
SPEAKER_00: ended up doing
8:22
I did a lot of my own projects all the way self-funded
8:26
snowboarding films and lots
8:28
of shooting on film and just you know any spare cash you had
8:33
putting it into your
8:34
own projects and then I sort of ended up eventually sort of
8:37
towards the end of the
8:38
film career just doing a lot of what they call corporate videos
8:41
but which I
8:42
actually quite enjoyed you know just working for businesses
8:44
telling their stories
8:46
um you know and by that time the internet had arrived and yes
8:49
I'd sort of done the
8:51
SPEAKER_00: arc
8:52
I was thinking about the parallels between perhaps the film
8:55
industry and the
8:56
military in terms of hierarchical the hierarchical nature of it
9:00
and there's
9:01
basically there is very you know you start as the runner and
9:04
you work your way up
9:05
don't you you pick a department when you're going to be in
9:07
department which
9:08
department is it going to be and then you go through was there
9:12
yeah it was there
9:15
SPEAKER_01: essentially you're you're still kind of
9:18
Realizing Somebody Else's Vision basically so although it's
9:21
very collaborative on
9:22
set almost everybody there is realizing somebody else's vision
9:26
including the
9:27
director in some ways depending on the project yeah what was
9:30
the what was the
9:31
SPEAKER_01: frustration involved with with that
9:33
Yeah I think that's a really good observation actually and just
9:36
going back to your
9:36
first observation someone a producer described it as like um
9:41
military meets the
9:42
circus which is about right yeah um your frustration I you know
9:47
that's it's a
9:48
really good call because I did oh you know like everybody
9:53
you're always on the road
9:54
SPEAKER_00: to somewhere or you you you know I think if you're creative you
9:59
you want to be realizing your own own vision so so on one hand
10:05
you've got to i
10:07
guess when i entered the scene all the gear was expensive film
10:12
was expensive
10:13
everything was edit suites were extremely expensive so you
10:16
couldn't just diy it
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SPEAKER_00: couldn't afford to because so yeah so i had to
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Work My Way Through Departments Like As Runner As A Floor
10:26
Manager I Worked As A
10:27
Sound Recordist Then A Best Boy And Been An Assistant Director
10:32
And A Producer
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SPEAKER_00: Director And Cameraman And All That Sort Of Stuff So You Just
10:38
You got to pay the rent but so what I found is that it's not
10:43
particularly easy to
10:45
chop between departments quickly because it takes time to get
10:49
established get a
10:50
reputation in that department so there's four or five years and
10:54
you've been in an
10:54
apartment but that's also really useful because you you know
10:58
you learn the first
10:59
SPEAKER_00: 90% really quickly and then I think you learn the last valuable 10%
11:04
Over a much longer time you know what I mean it's those little
11:07
things in that are
11:09
valuable so yeah I reckon frustration for me for sure I was
11:14
always wanting to I
11:16
wanted to do it all in every genre that's impossible you know I
11:20
wanted to do
11:21
feature films I wanted to do wildlife films and you sort of
11:23
have to specialize so
11:25
SPEAKER_00: slightly headless chicken in that regard
11:28
Is there a piece of work that you're most proud of looking back
11:31
where you say hey
11:32
SPEAKER_01: we really nailed that and it's like yeah it still holds up?
11:39
Yeah I mean I sort of I reflect on what I did and I reckon I
11:43
was probably more motivated by
11:47
the process and my personal life experience than I was about
11:52
the story which is
11:53
actually fundamentally pretty flawed if you're going to be
11:55
because filmmaking
11:57
everyone will always say is story is king you know it doesn't
12:00
matter everything
12:02
serves a story and for a film to be good it's got to be a
12:05
really brilliant story
12:06
but I was less enamored with story I was more interested in the
12:10
life experiences
12:11
SPEAKER_00: the remote locations the crazy people you know that's what fed me
12:16
But if there was one project I would be reasonably proud I mean
12:20
I'm really proud of
12:21
lots of experiences but one product I guess I made a film as a
12:26
sort of cameraman
12:29
called Tuna Cowboys and it was for National Geographic America
12:34
produced in
12:35
conjunction with Natural History New Zealand and the producer
12:38
and writer was a guy
12:39
called Mike Barna who I'm sure a lot of people in New Zealand
12:43
will know but Mike
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Barna it was his baby and his
12:46
his vision so he takes the lion's share of the credit I was the
12:51
sort of main
12:51
cameraman but what very briefly what that was about was it was
12:56
about it was a one
12:58
hour documentary on the southern bluefin harvest in the
13:02
southern ocean off the
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SPEAKER_00: south of Australia a place called Port Lincoln so the tuna fishery
13:11
Typically had a season where they could catch bluefin tuna and
13:15
then I think the
13:16
Japanese they sell it to Japanese and Japanese sushi market
13:20
would get flooded so
13:21
there's a guy down there called Denko who we based our film on
13:25
and he was a
13:26
Croatian immigrant who when we filmed he was a
13:30
multi-millionaire because he had
13:32
SPEAKER_00: pioneered this way of capturing these tuna
13:37
bringing them into pens in inland waters feeding them and drip
13:42
feeding the market
13:42
to keep prices high the artificial scarcity in terms of like
13:47
the so instead of a
13:49
season flood low price he would get his quota bring back
13:56
juvenile tuna juvenile
13:57
tuna is still big still half a man's body sort of size and
14:02
bigger and then
14:04
Keep them in the pens and then throughout the whole year sell
14:07
the tuna so he would
14:09
maintain prices or they that fishery would maintain the so they
14:14
keep the prices a
14:14
bit higher so our documentary is about filming the harvest
14:18
which was eight weeks at
14:20
sea you know on a fishing fishing boat yeah and it was a you
14:24
know it was a
14:24
challenge living with a couple of rough-ass fishermen but the
14:28
whole drama was that
14:30
SPEAKER_00: they they um
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Very briefly is that they have a mothership,
14:38
SPEAKER_00: 120 foot ship,
14:39
SPEAKER_00: tows two pens which are these 50 meter PVC rings,
14:45
two of them bolted together with a 30 meter net that drops with
14:49
big weights into
14:49
SPEAKER_00: the ocean so it's like a towing a cylinder net.
14:53
They have a spotter plane that goes up and it's a long distance
14:56
spotter plane and
14:57
SPEAKER_00: it'll spot a school of these tuna.
15:01
Radio Down and then a chum boat fast fast boat goes out with a
15:06
cubic meter frozen
15:07
block of pilchards on the back and these guys chuck the
15:10
pilchards they keep the
15:11
tuna at the surface then a persane boat a slightly bigger
15:15
vessel comes circles the
15:17
SPEAKER_00: school
15:19
Draws in the wire at the bottom of the persane means purse so
15:22
draws in the purse
15:23
string captures the school then the lumbering mothership that's
15:27
doing about one
15:27
knot comes in with these massive pens then the divers link the
15:32
persane net with the
15:33
holding pens they have a camera they corral the fish in they do
15:37
a rough count of
15:38
their quota they eventually get their quota say over two weeks
15:43
and then they've got
15:44
SPEAKER_00: to tow this quota back to the mainland and
15:47
Major part of the film was that a lot of sharks big oceanic
15:51
sharks chew into the
15:52
nets to get the dead tuna and so each day the divers have to go
15:57
down on lines get
15:59
the sharks out and sew up the nets and so you know that can be
16:05
they can be diving
16:06
to a depth of 25 meters I think it was or whatever you're up to
16:12
the edgy of diving
16:14
and then you know you eventually go past where a place called
16:17
Neptune Island which
16:18
is the greatest you know sort of one of the best great white
16:22
shark places and it
16:23
was the first time cameras had been allowed in and blah blah
16:25
blah but um yeah What
16:28
SPEAKER_01: was your role on that?
16:29
SPEAKER_00: I was the sort of main cameraman really
16:31
I showed everything from a metre below the water to the top of
16:35
the mast they had a
16:37
specialist underwater cameraman there because that was mainly
16:40
Mike Barner who was
16:41
the producer and director of it so yeah I think it's on YouTube
16:47
tuna cowboys it's
16:48
SPEAKER_00: called
16:48
Yeah it was good it was a physical it was a mental challenge
16:51
you know being on a
16:51
boat like the the Denko he was this rough Croatian with you
16:57
know I'd be I was
16:59
filming his hands and he'd see I was filming his hands and he'd
17:02
go yes I know Tony
17:04
there are waters aren't they you know and he talked about his
17:08
exploits with the
17:10
Ladies of the Night in Adelaide how they all knew Denko and you
17:14
know but he was a
17:15
cool guy he was like I got up one night in the middle of the
17:18
night and I could hear
17:19
this kind of noise because he'd bought this 120 foot ship we'd
17:24
taken off didn't
17:25
have an engineer or anything it was it was three professional
17:28
divers his his wife
17:32
SPEAKER_00: who was a
17:34
kind of Thai lady and him you know one night I hear this noise
17:39
I go down at about
17:40
two in the morning find out what's going on and he's sitting
17:42
down the back of the
17:43
boat with a acetylene torch cutting a hole in the back of this
17:47
120 foot um
17:50
ex-Taiwanese fishing trawler because there was a cable running
17:53
on it you know he's
17:54
just cutting a big chunk off it that sounds pretty Croatian
17:57
I've worked with a few
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Croatians in my time in Europe
17:59
and they would get shit done people they were like really super
18:02
motivated hard
18:03
working he was hard working yeah not afraid of cutting a corner
18:06
if necessary he cut
18:08
sugar cane to buy his first bite but he was a good man he was
18:11
solid and knew about
18:13
SPEAKER_00: the ocean
18:15
SPEAKER_01: There comes a time I think in the film industry I'm not sure if that's
18:18
internationally but certainly I think in New Zealand where your
18:22
experience actually
18:23
starts to count against you I've sort of heard it referred to
18:27
as aging out which I
18:28
think is a very honourable way of putting it I think in some
18:31
ways it's an industry
18:32
SPEAKER_01: that eats its old So how did that point come for you?
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Did you see that coming?
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Was it kind of a bit of a blindside?
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a fair call.
18:42
I never have any resentment about that because I just think
18:45
it's just natural
18:46
SPEAKER_00: attrition or law of the jungle or nature.
18:49
It's a young person's industry and young people are attracted
18:52
to working with young people.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: And it is an industry,
18:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
18:56
SPEAKER_00: you do a lot of work for free,
18:58
SPEAKER_00: you do a lot of work for the love of it.
19:01
I think I sort of I probably felt I became a little bit
19:04
undirectable got a bit old
19:05
you know there's a joke in the film industry you know old
19:08
cameraman you know old
19:10
slow and expensive I mean so what's attractive about employing
19:14
them when you get
19:14
some guy that's really good techie young fast energetic until
19:19
shit starts to go
19:20
really wrong and that's when you want the old dude I do I do
19:24
agree with that and I
19:26
SPEAKER_00: mean actually it's
19:28
You know one observation I think about New Zealand is it is
19:33
tough you know it's
19:34
everybody knows in the creative industries are hard you know
19:37
everyone knows that
19:38
it's a cliche isn't it because financial insecurity and and but
19:44
I would say that
19:45
I've seen a lot of really good cameramen older guys not getting
19:50
work and I think if
19:52
they'd been in America or another country they'd have plenty of
19:54
work because
19:55
SPEAKER_00: they've got because
19:56
shooting some of those big dramas just having knowledge about
19:59
all the big lighting
19:59
trucks and stuff it is it is timed around the block and and
20:03
I've found it I feel
20:05
you know sorry for them a bit condescending because that's not
20:11
that's not what I
20:12
mean but I feel frustrated for a lot of people that I just
20:15
think are highly
20:16
SPEAKER_00: talented but there's just not enough work to go around
20:19
SPEAKER_00: and just another little anecdote is the same with the music industry some
20:24
incredibly talented musicians but that deserve to be yeah a lot
20:30
a lot more secure
20:32
here's an example was in Dunedin went to old pub called the
20:37
arch because the clean
20:38
were playing David Kilgore wasn't actually wasn't the cleaners
20:41
David Kilgore on the
20:42
SPEAKER_00: heavy eights there was about six people in the pub
20:48
Four of those people were looking in a different direction and
20:52
David Cooke had
20:52
about five guitars played with his band I think they were just
20:55
using it as a
20:56
practice session but you know the music coming out of that band
21:00
could have
21:01
entertained a stadium of people you know he was a talented
21:05
musician I just looked
21:06
SPEAKER_00: around and I thought
21:08
You know this is New Zealand and poor guy well I don't know if
21:11
he cared but I just
21:13
thought it was a bit wrong that someone with so much talent
21:16
just was playing to an
21:17
empty space at his stage in his career and one other quick
21:23
antidote another
21:24
SPEAKER_00: musician I remember seeing the guy buzz from
21:30
Ah god I can't remember the name of the um they're a really
21:33
celebrated New Zealand
21:34
band but extremely talented musician musician's musician but
21:41
you know he's a he's a
21:42
tiler and he was just doing tiling on K Road outside a
21:46
nightclub just sort of
21:47
sitting on the ground he kind of looked like some beggar or
21:51
pauper just chipping
21:53
SPEAKER_00: tiles out and it was hard hard work and I just thought
21:58
I just thought I know you're a man with insane amount of talent
22:01
and not to say
22:03
tiling's bad you know happily be a tiler but it just the scene
22:08
looked like
22:09
This Guy Just Chipping Stuff On On The Pavement And Cray Road
22:12
And I Just Thought
22:13
That That's Sort Of The Crime Of You Know That Almost The
22:17
Tragedy Of What Awaits
22:19
Creative People In New Zealand Sometimes You Know They're Just
22:23
Internationally
22:23
Talented But It's Just Not The Population Or Whatever It Is
22:27
Here Any Other Market
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Or Bigger Market That Person's Got A Full McMansion And What Have
22:33
Yeah all they're doing is their music they're not they're not
22:37
having to do even
22:38
like side gigs or side hustles with music yeah they're just
22:41
performing their own
22:42
music and and they're making a great living out and that's a
22:45
that's a really that's
22:46
a nice way to identify the that they would have so much more
22:51
time to realize their
22:52
SPEAKER_01: music yeah yeah yeah I
22:54
To be able to have that market access to get people up
22:58
internationally When did you
23:00
know it was time then to start looking elsewhere outside the
23:04
industry for a plan B?
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Was there a specific moment or did that just sort of evolve?
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
23:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's a very alluring film industry because it's exciting,
23:18
SPEAKER_00: you meet interesting people,
23:20
SPEAKER_00: you see interesting stuff
23:21
But you know I think there's you know there's many creative
23:24
lives you have and and
23:26
SPEAKER_00: if I didn't I mean I think what was happening to me a bit is that
23:32
I was probably a bit of a journeyman cameraman in that I could
23:36
create a pretty
23:37
picture but I wasn't really doing very meaningful content all I
23:43
was doing is you
23:44
know there was because I was working in I guess corporate
23:47
videos is there's no
23:48
ability to do light and shadow it all just had to be shine
23:52
light if you know what I
23:53
mean yep not a lot of depth of field either I'm guessing it was
23:55
just basically yeah
23:56
Everything's in focus Yeah Everything's got to look pretty
23:59
Everyone's got to be
24:00
happy The messages are always got to be positive Which is cool
24:04
because you know
24:04
where you stand So Yeah I mean Look if I was So we're up in
24:15
We're living in a place
24:16
called Murawai Beach West of Auckland Lots of artists there
24:20
Film industry people
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Really liked it But the kids were
24:26
Kind of having to go to high school on the North Shore and I
24:29
wasn't entirely
24:30
SPEAKER_00: comfortable with them.
24:30
I knew there'd be bending around in cars to go to parties and
24:33
stuff around the
24:34
SPEAKER_00: North Shore and there's some dangerous roads.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Also, I whakapapa to the South Island and a lot of family
24:41
You know 200 odd you know 1860s and west coast and Canterbury
24:48
area so got deep
24:49
roots so I sort of and I'd spent I went to boarding school
24:52
actually in Christchurch
24:54
so and university so I sort of had a lot of in my blood so I
24:59
felt like I wanted to
25:00
SPEAKER_00: get my son and my daughter down here and also had like a kind of a health
25:07
Kind of blip which I won't go heavily into but that was a
25:11
circuit breaker because I
25:12
took some time off work so which was great because it sort of
25:16
just because you know
25:17
I just like a dog with your teeth into something you know you
25:21
just don't let go and
25:23
then you if you get a circuit breaker you can let go so and my
25:28
wife she's fully
25:29
into trying new stuff going on an adventure she doesn't take
25:34
much encouragement so
25:36
So yeah so we just decided to come down here and shake it up
25:38
and it's been really
25:41
SPEAKER_00: good actually I mean I think the south is
25:45
I mean a good friend of mine described it as a bit white bread
25:49
which is fair take
25:52
that how you will but Wanaka in this area it's got a lot of
25:59
very cool things about
26:00
SPEAKER_00: it so happy with the move and yeah in terms back to your question I just
26:08
You know I just think there's you know I'd love to be a
26:10
portrait painter I'd love
26:11
to be a sculptor I'd love to be so many things but you know it
26:14
all just takes so
26:15
long that you've just got to peg your head on one thing and
26:19
give it a nudge
26:20
SPEAKER_01: No, do all the things.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: So you converted your garage into a studio then during COVID.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: Walk me through what that looked like.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: What was in there beforehand?
26:31
SPEAKER_01: And what was the plan during that process?
26:34
SPEAKER_01: What did you pull out?
26:35
SPEAKER_01: What did you put in?
26:36
And what was the first thing you actually made then once you
26:39
were in there?
26:40
That's a great question Well I sort of I sold a bunch of film
26:43
gear and I bought
26:44
like a CNC machine because that was you know sort of the maker
26:50
movement had kicked
26:51
SPEAKER_00: off and you could get a bit of software and have a low level CNC machine
26:56
SPEAKER_00: I bought a lathe, bought a bunch of stuff.
26:58
I just sort of thought,
26:59
right,
27:00
I'm going to make lighting because I quite enjoy lighting.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: It's a bit sculptural.
27:05
It can be really artistic and it can be a little business
27:10
because you've always
27:13
So I made these wooden lights out of pine that had glued
27:19
together rings and then
27:22
within those rings they had rings of plexiglass which sort of
27:25
radiated light.
27:27
and they people responded well and and you know it's the
27:30
classic thing is your
27:31
friends and family buy your fair stuff which they did you know
27:34
like a lawyer mate
27:35
up in Auckland who's a new from uni who's he put a few in his
27:40
house which is really
27:41
affirming as he said I wouldn't buy them I didn't like them
27:45
without a smile so
27:47
being a being a lawyer he went straight for the jugular he's
27:50
quite honest so yeah
27:52
SPEAKER_00: so and then I would say from there I
27:56
I've just been trying to find where I sit,
28:00
you know,
28:00
and will that ever stop?
28:03
I think founding something at our age takes a certain type of
28:08
courage or something.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: What did it feel like at the time?
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Did it feel like courage?
28:12
SPEAKER_01: And with hindsight,
28:13
SPEAKER_01: do you look back and say,
28:14
SPEAKER_01: well,
28:14
SPEAKER_01: you shit,
28:14
SPEAKER_01: that was courageous or stupid or risky?
28:17
SPEAKER_01: How do you frame it now?
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably more on the stupid camp than the courageous camp.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: I think having a supportive wife helps a truckload.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
28:28
SPEAKER_00: because,
28:28
SPEAKER_00: you know,
28:29
I do feel sick every time I shell out a bunch of cash for a
28:32
piece of gear.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's all fun, isn't it?
28:35
The dream or I'll just buy this because it'll make me much
28:38
better at that.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: More productive.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: More productive.
28:40
Yeah It was the same in the film industry I only got that
28:43
camera I'll be a better
28:45
cameraman And that's a I reckon that's an illness Quick
28:49
anecdote Which I think is
28:53
useful Is I worked on a music video Featuring Shana Lang And
28:59
the director of
29:00
photography Was a guy called Leon Nabi Who has shot Whale Rider
29:04
He's very well
29:05
SPEAKER_00: respected He's sort of the artist's DOP
29:09
and I was the sort of best boy and I was working with Grant
29:12
McKinnon the gaffer but
29:13
his sort of comment we had a really small budget and and just a
29:18
little wee van with
29:19
a bunch of lights on it but well Grant's observation about Leon
29:23
Nabi he was never
29:25
SPEAKER_00: negative about the gear he had it was always a sort of a creative
29:29
Challenge you know always is going to make something
29:32
interesting out of what he had
29:33
and that's the New Zealand number eight why mentality but it
29:36
was just a positivity
29:37
about creativity with just what you've got so I think that's a
29:42
important mindset
29:44
you know you can you can always say I can't do this because I
29:47
haven't got that but
29:50
SPEAKER_00: and that's what I found working in Wanaka is that I've made lights and
29:55
Then after COVID suppliers have really reduced down the
29:59
materials that they carry
30:00
so I've spent all this time developing a light and suddenly I
30:03
can't get the
30:04
materials I need to to make it so that sort of reminded me that
30:08
you gotta be
30:10
SPEAKER_00: positive and creative with what you've got and that's you know that's the
30:14
philosophy there's a universe inside a ping pong ball you know
30:17
there's a world of
30:17
SPEAKER_00: entertainment inside a very small amount of
30:23
SPEAKER_01: either stimulus or materials or equipment.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: I learnt the acronym GAS,
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Gear Acquisition Syndrome,
30:33
SPEAKER_01: which I hadn't heard before until a few years ago when I realised,
30:37
SPEAKER_01: holy shit,
30:37
SPEAKER_01: I've really collected quite a few lenses here.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm not really using them or there's a lot of fun to buy them.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: But it's like, yeah, and I fully agree.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: And to understand that,
30:49
working with constraints and if you've only got a 50mm lens or
30:53
a 35mm or whatever
30:54
then you have to walk a bit more and be a little bit more
30:57
creative to work around
30:59
those constraints do you find you have phases with that sort of
31:02
thing because I
31:03
also see it's almost in a similar category as retail therapy it
31:08
can feel very good
31:09
satisfying and if you can afford it to get some of those little
31:13
things and tools
31:14
SPEAKER_01: but really if you're actually moving the needle or not
31:17
How do you mean I sort of lost you on moving the middle yeah In
31:21
terms of the
31:23
equipment that you're purchasing whether it actually makes you
31:26
then more productive
31:28
or not or whether it actually is fulfilling a different role in
31:31
your life I
31:31
generally think that I do use I mean I reckon my fail rate on
31:37
purchases is probably
31:38
about 10% I reckon everything because it is expensive I think
31:43
about it really hard
31:44
and I generally have got something I want to make with it so
31:48
yeah I mean I one
31:50
stroke like I had was that I won a competition with Xero which
31:55
gave me a whole
31:56
SPEAKER_00: bunch of cash which enabled me to buy things like laser cutters
32:01
and all sorts of stuff and and so I buy a laser cutter and it
32:05
was quite a capital
32:06
outlay relative but it kind of used it a bit and then it sat
32:11
there for three months
32:12
and and or six months and you know the wife's a bit like well
32:15
you know why'd you
32:18
buy that sort of thing but no I'm back using it now and it's
32:21
perfect for what the
32:22
SPEAKER_00: next light I'm making so I think a little bit with what I'm doing
32:28
You know I just had this feeling like I wanted to go and paint
32:31
pictures recently
32:32
because that would be simple you know I remember one time like
32:36
I was working with
32:37
this guy who was a musician a dude called Nick Sampson who was
32:42
in the Netherworld
32:43
Dancing Toys and he came along directing a corporate video and
32:47
I was like the
32:48
cameraman and we were carrying a gear in and out and he said oh
32:51
this is just like
32:52
being in a band you know loading all the gear in and out and I
32:55
sort of said
32:56
I actually said I don't really think it is well that bit is but
32:59
I don't actually
33:00
think it's like being in a band because it's quite buttoned
33:02
down the film industry
33:04
whereas the music industry it's just emotion pouring out to
33:10
people so that's where
33:13
SPEAKER_00: I felt like the
33:15
The Painting Might Be A Bit More Pure Creativity Pour Coming
33:20
Out In A More
33:21
Satisfying Way Because You're Getting The Stimulus Of Creating
33:25
Colors And Seeing
33:26
How Colors Go Together And That Might Be Much More Rewarding
33:29
Because I Find With
33:31
the road that I've gone down with lighting is a bit like the
33:34
film industry lots of
33:35
bits of equipment lots of fiddling around lots of sort of
33:39
dreaming of stuff and you
33:40
know and then you eventually come out with a product that's
33:43
quite nice but it sort
33:45
of feels like there's a lot of faffin in between the pure
33:50
creative sort of outflow
33:52
now that that might be my limitation speaking because I'm sure
33:56
there's a lot of
33:56
SPEAKER_00: actors and directors that are
33:59
More on that bad choice of word but flow state I'm sure you
34:02
know what I mean I'm
34:03
sure there's you know so maybe that's just a personality glitch
34:06
more than a well I
34:07
think I mean you know some some people have a have an affinity
34:10
for tech you know
34:11
and and objects I mean you look at something like road cycling
34:14
as a sport you know
34:15
SPEAKER_01: road cyclists like tech you know and it's all about getting the lightest
34:19
SPEAKER_01: componentry and and you know you can always make your bike
34:22
Lighter and things like that and sometimes I think from a
34:25
creative perspective
34:27
sometimes we're acquiring objects or tools or things without
34:32
really knowing what
34:34
we're going to do with them but we've kind of got a feeling
34:36
this is going to come
34:37
in handy at some point later on and then a few years down the
34:41
track oh actually
34:41
this is it and now suddenly you are using it and this is
34:45
exactly the thing that you
34:46
needed that perhaps then at that point you couldn't afford but
34:49
you did buy it a few
34:50
SPEAKER_01: years ago and you've got it
34:51
Yeah And you can use it Well I think that We've talked in the
34:57
past About the need to
34:59
Have a business component to your creativity because I've
35:02
always thought in the
35:03
film industry if it wasn't commercially kind of viable which is
35:08
sort of sounds
35:08
pretty cliche word but you didn't get to create unless your
35:12
last project had some
35:13
sort of financial kind of validity about it you didn't get the
35:17
next one so you
35:19
creativity stopped you know so you sort of had to work out that
35:21
financial bit
35:23
And that's where I think with my lighting at the moment I sort
35:26
of was half in
35:27
thinking about doing stuff that was am I a factory or am I an
35:31
artist and I've
35:31
actually swinging back to I want to be an artist because I
35:35
think the fun of it is
35:36
the problem solving and the creating I don't think the fun of
35:40
it is the repetition
35:42
SPEAKER_00: and the selling you know
35:44
That's interesting because I think I've seen you describe your
35:48
work as like you
35:49
have a creative itch but then you've also been scratching away
35:52
for well over 30
35:54
years and that itch is still there creative curse do you know
35:57
where it comes from
35:59
what you can put that down to yeah I don't know I mean because
36:02
you know so many
36:02
SPEAKER_00: people are creative aren't they I mean I'm always amazed by
36:07
How many New Zealanders are quite creative and I kind of
36:11
thought that when social
36:12
media came along and I saw all my friends who weren't
36:16
considered creatives pick up
36:17
their phones and have really interesting eyes you know by an
36:21
eye is you know an
36:22
angle on stuff so I think everybody's quite quite creative but
36:27
the creative urge
36:28
SPEAKER_00: yeah I was thinking about that because I thought well I thought
36:32
We're going to talk what are we going to talk about and I
36:35
thought about what
36:37
compels you to do creative stuff and it's got to be a strong
36:41
compulsion because
36:42
it's not always pleasant is it you know because you I mean
36:45
there's times where I've
36:46
been unemployed and I've worried about money and blah blah blah
36:50
I think there's a
36:50
difference between you know that there are people that can be
36:54
creative or perhaps
36:56
SPEAKER_01: have creativity or but
36:58
And then there's the compulsives,
37:00
you know,
37:01
that basically you have to do it.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Similar to stand-up comedy, I think.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: There are people that say, yeah, I could get up there and tell a joke.
37:07
But that's quite different to the really hardcore comedians
37:10
that that is their thing.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: They just have to be up there doing it.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: I think that compulsion is it.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And,
37:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:17
SPEAKER_00: I guess for me,
37:18
SPEAKER_00: if I,
37:19
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:19
SPEAKER_00: when I was a cameraman,
37:20
SPEAKER_00: I'd see a pretty scene and I'd be really motivated.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: I'd just be really motivated by that.
37:27
composition or the light or the colours and it's the same now
37:31
I'm really motivated
37:32
by colour and combining colours and you know I just really
37:36
driven and always have
37:37
been since I was a little kid I mean I was crap at everything
37:40
else except for sort
37:41
SPEAKER_00: of average drawing you know what I mean
37:43
You're making physical objects now,
37:45
so things that actually sit in somebody's house.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: After so long making something that actually kind of disappeared,
37:54
SPEAKER_01: you know,
37:55
SPEAKER_01: once the credits rolled in some ways,
37:58
SPEAKER_01: what does that feel like,
37:59
SPEAKER_01: to be making something that's more permanent and tangible like that?
38:03
Yeah I like that because that's one thing I sort of was a
38:06
little bit down about in
38:08
the visual screen production industry is a good catch-all term
38:12
for it but I was a
38:13
bit down on it because you pour all this money energy time
38:17
passion anxiety into
38:20
your product and and it'd be you know and it'd be loss in
38:25
digital ethersphere if
38:28
SPEAKER_00: that's such a word gone or
38:31
it would be I'd make something and I wouldn't think it's very
38:35
good compared to
38:36
everyone else's work which was great you know what I mean I
38:39
just think that my
38:40
stuff was just amateur hour you know what I mean and but yeah
38:44
to your point where's
38:45
it going to be seen if at all whereas with a with a something
38:49
like a light I really
38:50
like I sort of like the concept that um it's in somebody's
38:56
house they've invited it
38:58
SPEAKER_00: into their house they like it
39:01
People come and enjoy it they might comment on it it performs
39:05
you know lights up it
39:07
has emotion it has you know it has a daytime way it looks and
39:12
then it has a
39:13
nighttime morphs into something and you know and I'm interested
39:18
in that idea that
39:19
you know it is a piece of art I want to push the I think that's
39:22
where I need to go
39:22
SPEAKER_00: a bit more as you know making the object art because people
39:27
You know I mean a lot of lights are beautiful chandeliers are
39:30
art and stuff but if
39:31
you think about artworks oh I don't I don't think a pen and
39:36
light you know art is
39:38
political it can be political but art always I think triggers
39:43
emotion somebody has
39:45
an emotional engagement or reaction to you know I think that's
39:50
part of what's the
39:51
SPEAKER_00: difference between craft and art because
39:56
You know there's craft objects or you're good at your craft or
40:00
there's a high level
40:01
of craft in your art but then there's art so is the difference
40:09
between art and
40:09
SPEAKER_00: craft emotion greater emotion or politics and then you think about
40:15
You Know Somebody An Artist Is Saying Something Making You
40:18
Think About Something Or
40:19
Make You Questioning Something But Then Can A Light I Don't
40:24
Know If A Light Can Do
40:25
That I Don't Know If You Can Get Politics Into A Light But You
40:28
Can Get Emotion Into
40:29
SPEAKER_00: A Light So I Think It Can Go
40:32
Take a big step towards being an artistic object and you know
40:37
if people say my wall
40:40
is for a painting but my but above my table that can only be a
40:46
light bulb for
40:47
SPEAKER_00: seeing food who says there's a line between those two spaces
40:52
What's in the lead then so when you're designing are you
40:55
designing for when the
40:55
light's on for when the light's off for the actual how it's
41:00
going to fill the space
41:03
yeah it's an interesting one because I think like you know
41:06
you've got parameters of
41:07
weight you've got parameters of size you're trying to work out
41:12
what space it might
41:14
fit in so you've got and then you've got it's got to perform
41:18
some function or not
41:21
So you've got those parameters and then you've got to work
41:23
within that and then I
41:26
think it's got to look pretty during the day but then it's got
41:29
to do something
41:29
interesting at night because one thing is that when a light
41:34
goes on an object it
41:36
really lights up all its imperfections so you've got to have
41:41
something that
41:42
structurally works but then there's a bulb inside it showing
41:48
revealing to the world
41:49
SPEAKER_00: and really
41:51
Bright Detail how your structure works and that that can be
41:55
sometimes a little
41:55
shonky so you've got to actually get the mechanics all kind of
41:59
clever so there's
42:00
you know so it's inside and outside and 360 degrees so it's
42:04
more challenging than I
42:05
SPEAKER_00: thought it was going to be actually
42:07
How do you deal with the dead ends or the failures or the
42:11
things where you think
42:12
something's going to work perhaps or you've had an idea and
42:15
that you've gone down
42:16
this route and then you realise it's going to look good or it
42:18
looked good when it
42:19
was off but now I've turned it on and exactly as you say
42:22
suddenly oh god it doesn't
42:25
work once it's illuminated Yeah for sure Yeah I mean I see
42:29
imperfections in
42:30
SPEAKER_00: everything that I've done
42:33
You know I went to an exhibition at the Auckland Art Gallery
42:38
which was sort of like
42:39
a I can't remember what it was called but it was just like a
42:42
retrospective of Maori
42:45
art and so it was really good to go I don't go to a lot of I'd
42:53
like to go to a lot
42:54
more but it was really good to go to because I sort of went to
42:57
this exhibition
42:59
SPEAKER_00: which had the best of
43:01
New Zealand Mari Art all the big names and some of the works
43:09
felt kind of a little
43:10
bit rough in technique or the craft wasn't that great but they
43:15
were still very
43:17
Powerful effective works you know what I mean so I took a lot
43:21
of heart or sort of
43:23
inspiration from that expedition because I could see that you
43:29
don't have to be
43:30
perfect in your technique to still create an object or a
43:33
picture that works really
43:36
SPEAKER_00: well is really powerful is really emotive so
43:40
So I mean but then that that potentially can be used in my own
43:45
mind as a sort of a
43:46
cop out ah that's that's a bit of a fail there but oh it's just
43:50
part of the it's
43:51
just part of the artwork you know embrace the roughness the
43:55
hand of man yeah yes
43:56
SPEAKER_01: yep
43:58
So in answer to your question fails yeah lots of iterations I
44:01
think before it's
44:02
finished so and that's always a bit stressful because you're
44:05
wasting materials and
44:06
time you know so you you kind of like you might have an
44:10
expensive timber or or you
44:12
know it costs a lot to freight stuff down here and and you can
44:16
mock it up with
44:16
cheap stuff but you have to go to the actual stuff you're doing
44:19
it from and then
44:19
there's lots of errors and mistakes with that there's sometimes
44:22
you're asleep at
44:23
SPEAKER_00: the wheel sometimes you know it
44:25
whatever just doesn't behave in the way you think or you don't
44:28
understand your
44:29
tools deeply enough and so you just have to redo it and redo it
44:34
until you get it
44:35
right so do you start then do you start with planning or do you
44:39
just start making
44:40
and see where it goes what's your process my process so I sort
44:44
of you know I look
44:46
online a lot of I reckon Instagram is really good I follow a
44:50
lot of artists and
44:51
SPEAKER_00: then I get really inspired what artists are doing
44:54
yeah and then I think well how can I apply some of the sort of
44:59
either techniques or
45:00
colors or or effects that they've done you know how can I take
45:06
that and rework it
45:08
so it's in some instances it's like a musician resampling music
45:14
and I think there's
45:15
SPEAKER_00: that saying that I don't know what is a good artist
45:19
Great Artists Copy or something I don't know if that's quite
45:22
right but so you get I
45:25
always thought you know artists have been influenced by
45:27
movements you know there's
45:28
been New Zealand artists that have been part of a movement
45:31
they've gone to Europe
45:32
and they've been able to work with those artists and they so
45:35
they're sort of
45:36
SPEAKER_00: inspired by
45:38
a line of design or a line of artwork so yeah also look on
45:42
Instagram I'll see
45:43
what's happening in the art world I'll get inspired by stuff
45:45
and then I'll think
45:46
about what tools I've got what materials I've got so there's a
45:50
fence around it
45:51
already and then I'll have a couple of four or five lights that
45:58
I'll be doing and
45:59
I'll just try and work out technique trial and error technique
46:05
of how to make stuff
46:06
SPEAKER_00: and
46:08
Yeah and see if and then of course when you chuck all that into
46:11
the blender
46:12
something quite different comes out and then what comes out is
46:15
your creation I
46:16
guess is that blender of technique and trying to go somewhere
46:20
and it ends up
46:21
somewhere else or but there's always a sort of a like a I
46:25
really like that colour
46:27
SPEAKER_00: and I want to sort of
46:29
I want to somehow incorporate that feel but also thinking okay
46:33
well how's it going
46:34
to look at the moment I'm just trying to focus on having a bulb
46:38
in the middle and
46:39
building something around that bulb you know just because
46:42
there's a universe of
46:43
creativity just in that concept so not going with LED lights or
46:47
not doing this or
46:48
not doing that it's just a bulb that someone can hang in the
46:51
middle of an object
46:52
SPEAKER_00: and then what I make is going to interact with that bulb
46:56
Yeah and you know I'll make stuff and I'll go well I've got to
46:59
get much better at
47:02
creating something that illuminates in an interesting way
47:05
because there's too much
47:06
SPEAKER_00: light's lost or it's just so
47:09
Are you comfortable with the term artist do you call yourself
47:12
an artist do other
47:14
people call you an artist yeah I don't know because that's a
47:17
really because I sort
47:18
of called myself an artist for a bit because I thought that was
47:21
the right thing to
47:21
do and then I thought well you're not really an artist because
47:24
as I was explaining
47:25
before because but you know what is an artist I mean and what
47:29
does it matter yeah
47:30
happy to be an artist creative whatever I don't care designer
47:34
it's all good I think
47:35
SPEAKER_00: they're all good terms
47:37
SPEAKER_01: You've said you want your work to have a distinctively New Zealand feel.
47:41
How do you do that and what do you work on making sure that you
47:46
include or that you
47:47
SPEAKER_01: address and what are you consciously trying to keep out of the work?
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a really interesting question because I think that
47:55
You probably flip it on the head I just think New Zealand
47:58
permeates into you And
48:00
comes out in your work So I don't I mean I'm I think the The
48:05
idea I was sort of
48:07
Talking about was I'd like to be part of New Zealand design
48:12
language And there's
48:13
SPEAKER_00: lots of And when I say that I don't want to be
48:16
like a guy fitting into a box that's supporting something
48:19
that's already done I
48:20
want to do my own things but I'd like to think that the works
48:25
that I do are unique
48:27
to New Zealand that would be nice because I'm proud of New
48:30
Zealand I think there's
48:31
a lot of creative people here New Zealand has its own energy
48:35
and I just think I
48:36
don't know why we can't be the sort of the Denmark of the South
48:40
Pacific in terms of
48:41
SPEAKER_00: design and design export and
48:43
We probably already are actually you know in a funny sort of
48:46
way but you know it's
48:47
that if you want to get on to economics you know we feel like
48:51
the we've got an
48:52
economy that's a lot about sort of um consumption of resources
48:56
whereas I just think
48:57
what you know they talk about value add our design sector is
49:01
our value add sector
49:03
you know why aren't we taking our timber and just saying
49:05
fantastic kit set stuff
49:07
whatever you know David Trubridge has done a great job of that
49:10
sort of kit set
49:11
Lighting Model you know much respect for what he's done and who
49:15
he is Tremendous
49:17
value add for you know in terms of that so it's still small
49:20
volumes compared to the
49:21
quantity of logs that are being sent offshore but in terms of
49:24
there's somebody
49:25
that's taking native timber as are you adding significant value
49:29
to it Yeah and
49:30
that's what we you know if we could do more of that you know
49:33
they talk about
49:34
productivity and stuff like that I would have thought if
49:36
somehow sort of politics
49:39
SPEAKER_00: but you know some sort of
49:43
Governmental Momentum To Beef Up Our Our Sort Of Design Export
49:49
Stuff Could Because
49:52
At Some Point You've Got To Extract More Value With Less
49:55
Resources And That Would
49:56
Be A Good Way To Head Towards That Idea Because You Can't Keep
49:59
Eating The Planet
50:01
SPEAKER_00: Particularly Beautiful New Zealand But Just Back To That Thing About New
50:05
Zealandness And It's Like We Live You And I Live Down Here In
50:08
Central Otago Which
50:09
SPEAKER_00: Is
50:10
browns beautiful browns but then that that color permeates into
50:15
your psyche and
50:16
then I look at stuff out of Europe and it's Spain or somewhere
50:21
and it's poppy
50:22
pastels and you know and I love those colors so I don't want to
50:28
just be a guy
50:29
that's going to do Totara and browns although I love those
50:35
colors but you know I
50:36
SPEAKER_00: think a challenge is not to
50:38
be a bit tunnel vision in your sort of creative palette by
50:43
virtue of what you see
50:44
around you all the time you've also started working with wool I
50:48
think relatively
50:49
recently what is it that drew you to that and what are you
50:52
making with wool yeah I
50:55
have a terrible sort of sort of I get pulled in two directions
51:02
all the time and I
51:03
went to the state of the good mate in Christchurch recently and
51:05
he totally called
51:06
SPEAKER_00: me out
51:07
Because on one hand I want to be really sustainable Not because
51:12
it's trendy But
51:13
because I believe it's You've got to look after your natural
51:18
environment It's
51:19
really important And so where we live on our property We've got
51:22
solar power The
51:25
water goes into an on-site septic tank So if I'm going to use
51:29
nasty chemicals It's
51:30
going to be in the groundwater It'll eventually leach down to
51:33
the bore that we
51:34
SPEAKER_00: drink from So
51:35
So going to wool I am very drawn to you know I just wanted to
51:40
find a material that
51:41
was close by so it didn't have a carbon marble miles and
51:44
transport I wanted to try
51:46
and support a local sector and wool is well documented at
51:51
having loads of really
51:52
fantastic properties you know fire retardant and can act as a
51:57
sound baffle that can
51:58
SPEAKER_00: be
52:00
Air Filter and you know it's biodegradable all these fantastic
52:03
things so I found a
52:05
local supplier and I just wanted to come up with a product that
52:09
used timber and
52:10
wool and had low carbon miles as much as I can achieve and so
52:15
that's where that
52:17
pendant came from and I'm currently working on another wool
52:20
pendant with a
52:22
Digital Knitting Company in the North Island it's been a year
52:24
in the gestation and
52:26
probably be about another year but working on that so just to
52:29
keep just to provide
52:30
SPEAKER_00: an option that is natural
52:33
But then in the same regards I've just ordered a bunch of
52:37
Spanish spray paint
52:38
that's shipped around the world and is quite toxic but I just
52:42
love the colours and
52:44
so that was my mate in Christchurch she was sort of saying well
52:46
you know you've got
52:47
this big blurb on your thing on your website saying that you're
52:52
motivated to be
52:53
natural yet sometimes the colours that you want or the
52:58
materials you want are toxic
52:59
SPEAKER_00: like
53:00
Plastics and stuff like that so it's hard you know it's a
53:04
you're torn but I think
53:05
as long as your products can last a long time and you're not
53:08
you haven't got too
53:09
much waste in the process as long as you can make conscious
53:11
steps where you can I
53:12
think it'll that sort of helps I like your blurb I like your
53:16
sustainability blurb
53:17
and one of the things I really like about it is it's it's real
53:21
you know it's it's
53:22
not it's not pretending to be something that you can't live up
53:25
to or what having
53:25
you very frank about that and it seems it's got a little bit of
53:28
a hey this is this
53:29
SPEAKER_01: is
53:29
is what we're about you reference James Lovelock's Gaia
53:34
Apothesis which is you know
53:36
connected to that hey we're all interconnected it's all you
53:40
know you've got to
53:41
SPEAKER_01: watch where things are going as you say for yourself that this is you
53:44
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be in your drinking water Which is,
53:48
I like the fact that Where I live is a microcosm of the world
53:51
My actions directly
53:52
affect me Which is often Most people's actions They don't see
53:57
the consequence But
53:58
when it's your home And just really quickly when I spent that
54:01
year in Africa I
54:02
SPEAKER_00: lived in a
54:04
It was a premium ecosystem that just had nothing but pure
54:08
wildlife,
54:09
no fences,
54:09
nothing.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: It was one of the premium ecosystems called the Okabanga Douta.
54:13
And just seeing the day-to-day,
54:15
the way an ecosystem operates with all the
54:20
from the giraffes the elephants the lions the cheetahs the
54:23
leopards right through
54:24
to the crocodiles the lechwi and the hippopotamus and snakes
54:32
tarantulas they were
54:33
all packed in this place and just that you know the
54:39
interconnectivity of that
54:40
environment how it ebbed and flowed you know that changed me
54:45
forever so I mean I
54:46
SPEAKER_00: would feel and I love New Zealand and
54:50
As a lot of people do do so you know you do you are constantly
54:54
wracked with like
54:56
guilt about waste and and toxic toxicity of your process you
55:03
know I always feel
55:04
guilty about it but I still will use toxic stuff to make try
55:08
and make what I think
55:09
SPEAKER_00: is a beautiful object
55:11
We talked before about musicians and market size and things
55:16
like that so in a
55:16
bigger market you could probably just be designing lights but
55:23
you are also
55:24
manufacturing lights so you've kind of got this sort of balance
55:28
or you're sort of
55:29
you're trying to have this balance between being an artist and
55:32
being a factory so
55:34
SPEAKER_01: there is some sort of friction there but you also I think have a
55:38
similar to myself you have sort of that one man band thing that
55:40
you also don't mind
55:41
doing that and doing everything yourself where are you at with
55:44
that process great
55:46
question good observation yeah I think it's an interesting one
55:49
I've always
55:50
gravitated towards the one band one man band thing because I
55:54
don't like to carry
55:55
the responsibility of people you know I'm a bit of a soft softy
55:58
you know like I
56:00
Believe in sort of paying people what they're worth and if I
56:03
can't do that I'd
56:04
rather do it myself sort of thing or and you know that's where
56:08
I'm sort of poking
56:10
around and making lights how does it work I look at David
56:12
Troubridge you know he
56:14
runs a factory with a lot of people it would be nice to just be
56:17
the designer I'd
56:18
love that I'd love to just be the designer wouldn't that be
56:22
nice swanning in and
56:23
SPEAKER_00: having you
56:25
Chai Latte or whatever it is you know what I mean um throwing
56:28
the odd tenty but I
56:30
can't imagine you throwing a tenty and being a diva I think
56:32
you're probably one of
56:33
SPEAKER_01: the least diva-ish people that I've met but um
56:38
Yeah I mean I mean you know that would be fun to have a be part
56:43
of a bigger
56:44
operation and because business can be exciting and fun I'd like
56:48
that but I sort of
56:50
come to the conclusion cast adrift down here in the bottom of
56:53
the world that it's
56:54
probably going to have to be a small operation and I think I'll
56:57
probably at the
56:58
SPEAKER_00: moment just angle towards the
57:02
art pieces and the making part I guess is a lot of you know you
57:07
sort of have to do
57:08
that grind to work out how to make the object better I think
57:16
but having said that I
57:18
am sort of maybe outsourcing this light that might be a little
57:22
more mass market if
57:24
SPEAKER_00: I can get it to fly so I'm sort of having a wee dabble in that because
57:32
I'd love to you know travel a bit more and you know go to trade
57:35
shows or something
57:36
like that I don't know I think that I think it I think just
57:40
doing I mean one maybe
57:44
creative observation seeing this as podcast and creativity I
57:47
always remember in the
57:49
film industry there's the people that sort of went on the the
57:54
artistic line in the
57:55
SPEAKER_00: film industry and they
57:57
They did it hard but they stayed the course and then they got
58:01
to a point where
58:02
people really wanted them because they had really refined some
58:06
specialty or part of
58:07
it and then there were a lot of people that were more
58:10
generalists that maybe had
58:11
kids and mortgages and wanted more of a normal life and then
58:14
you you know I just
58:17
Yeah so there is that concept of staying the course you know if
58:21
you stay the course
58:22
with your creativity through all the hard times you more often
58:27
than not I saw
58:28
SPEAKER_00: people achieve do quite well and achieve.
58:31
There's also I think there's this conflict between between or
58:35
around the topic of
58:36
SPEAKER_01: scale you know so in terms of you know would you would you rather be
58:40
getting your lights into as many homes as possible or actually
58:44
keeping the quantity
58:46
that you're producing at the level that you are and just
58:49
raising the price so
58:50
people are paying more for them but you've got the same lights
58:54
that you have
58:54
currently in terms of your workload and how you're doing things
58:57
what would your
58:58
SPEAKER_01: preference be?
58:59
Yeah nice that you've kept it on kept the conversation on
59:02
course yeah no I think
59:04
that's where I want to go as the artist's road or where I am
59:07
going is price higher