Latest / The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories / Jeffrey Dahmer： America's Most Shocking Serial Killer

Transcript

Jeffrey Dahmer： America's Most Shocking Serial Killer · The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories

0:00
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Darmer murdered seventeen young men over thirteen years. He
0:05
Speaker 1: would cut open his victims for his own sexual pleasure,
0:09
Speaker 1: preserve their severed body parts, and towards the end, eat
0:12
Speaker 1: their thighs, biceps, and hearts. But how did this once
0:16
Speaker 1: apparently innocent child turn into one of the world's most
0:20
Speaker 1: gruesome serial killers. Did circumstance drive Dharma to carnage and
0:25
Speaker 1: cannibalism or was he born to kill? Was one of
1:01
Speaker 1: the most infamous serial killers of modern times. His name
1:05
Speaker 1: is synonymous with mutilation, necrophilia, and cannibalism.
1:09
Speaker 2: You think of the crimes that he committed, they're so horrific,
1:12
Speaker 2: you kind of think only a madman or somebody totally evil,
1:17
Speaker 2: evil incarnate would do this. But when you talked with
1:20
Speaker 2: jeff Dahmer, he just did not get this idea. He
1:22
Speaker 2: could be engaging, he could be bright, witty, he could
1:27
Speaker 2: make jokes.
1:31
Speaker 3: He was able to fool a lot of people.
1:33
Speaker 4: People that worked with him had no idea that he
1:35
Speaker 4: was a violent man. This was part of the real
1:38
Speaker 4: danger of Jeffrey Dahmer. He could join you or me
1:41
Speaker 4: at lunch and no one would detect that he was.
1:44
Speaker 3: A violent person.
1:45
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Dahmer, on the surface, was not a abnormal appearing individual.
1:50
Speaker 5: He's fairly good looking, he's well spoken, he was articulate.
1:55
Speaker 6: Never in a million years would I have guessed a
1:57
Speaker 6: homicidal maniac.
1:58
Speaker 7: To me, he's He's always been really a tragic figure,
2:04
Speaker 7: which is kind of hard for a lot of people
2:06
Speaker 7: to understand. But I don't really think of him as,
2:08
Speaker 7: you know, the serial killer monster. I just think of
2:10
Speaker 7: him as his kid who was spiraling out of control
2:12
Speaker 7: and nobody stopped him.
2:19
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer grew up in the small rural town of bath, Ohio,
2:24
Speaker 1: a middle class boy from Middle America. Robert Wrestler, an
2:31
Speaker 1: FBI behavioral analyst and the man responsible for coining the
2:34
Speaker 1: phrase serial killers, was called in to interview Dama. His
2:39
Speaker 1: years of experience interviewing serial killers such as John Wayne
2:42
Speaker 1: Gacy gave him a unique insight into Dahma's mind.
2:46
Speaker 5: There is no evidence with Geoffrey Dahmer of any severe
2:50
Speaker 5: mistreatment or abuse in his childhood. His mother had a
2:55
Speaker 5: mental problem. He was depressed most of the time. She
2:58
Speaker 5: slapped a lot, in dropped out of family activities. The
3:02
Speaker 5: father was a PhD. Chemist and very busy and very
3:06
Speaker 5: intelligent man who spent a great deal of his time
3:10
Speaker 5: at work.
3:12
Speaker 1: Pat Kennedy worked the beat in Milwaukee for over twenty
3:16
Speaker 1: five years. Back in the summer of nineteen ninety one,
3:19
Speaker 1: he was assigned to the Jeffrey Dahmer case and spent
3:23
Speaker 1: six long weeks with him. He knew him better than most.
3:27
Speaker 3: He was a product of upper white middle class. He
3:30
Speaker 3: was educated.
3:31
Speaker 2: He came from a family of.
3:34
Speaker 1: Means, Yet the fractures in his parents' relationship left a
3:38
Speaker 1: young Jeffrey feeling isolated. His interests turned to animals. He
3:43
Speaker 1: viewed them very differently to how most children look upon
3:46
Speaker 1: their pets.
3:48
Speaker 2: He stated when he was a very young child, seven
3:51
Speaker 2: or eight, he had found a decomposed squirrel and the
3:59
Speaker 2: bonds were there. He took it apart. He said that
4:02
Speaker 2: he found a roadkill and he wanted to see what
4:04
Speaker 2: was inside it, like a raccoon or a dog.
4:06
Speaker 3: He brought that home.
4:07
Speaker 2: A dead dog that he found on the side of
4:09
Speaker 2: the road was hit by a car, cut that open
4:12
Speaker 2: and looked at the inside of that.
4:14
Speaker 1: Jeffrey started to do this from a very young age.
4:17
Speaker 1: He would roam the surrounding countryside looking for roadkill to
4:20
Speaker 1: add to his growing macarbre collection. His fascination with bones
4:24
Speaker 1: would continue into his adulthood, but he would eventually move
4:27
Speaker 1: from animals to humans.
4:29
Speaker 2: As he got to be about thirteen or fourteen, and
4:32
Speaker 2: he was coming into his sexual awareness that he had
4:41
Speaker 2: some kissing with another boy in the neighborhood, and he
4:44
Speaker 2: realized that he was attracted to boys becoming aroused sexually,
4:52
Speaker 2: and the cutting up of these animals somehow became imatched.
4:57
Speaker 3: So what he did as.
4:58
Speaker 2: A young man with animals, he eventually did do later
5:02
Speaker 2: on in life with human beings.
5:09
Speaker 1: John beckdef first met Jeffrey Darmer when they were at
5:12
Speaker 1: school together here at the Revere High School in the
5:15
Speaker 1: mid seventies. John professionally known as DIRF, has since created
5:19
Speaker 1: a comic book illustrating his teenage years with Dama.
5:23
Speaker 7: Damer. Well, he was he had a pretty rough time here,
5:26
Speaker 7: as did a lot of us.
5:28
Speaker 8: You know.
5:29
Speaker 7: He was the constant victim of harassment and abuse, was
5:33
Speaker 7: beat up a lot, especially early on. Later you know,
5:36
Speaker 7: they sort of got bored with him, But early on,
5:41
Speaker 7: I imagine he had it pretty tough.
5:42
Speaker 1: Dama discussed his childhood at length with Robert Wrestler. This
5:46
Speaker 1: is the first time these recordings have ever been heard.
5:49
Speaker 9: I was visiting.
5:53
Speaker 8: In the evening and these saw these three seniors from
5:58
Speaker 8: high learns. I just had a feeling that something was
6:02
Speaker 8: going to happen. Sure enough, took him a billy and
6:04
Speaker 8: wagged me on the back.
6:12
Speaker 7: When we got to high school, it was when suddenly
6:15
Speaker 7: he became this this uh incredible freak, you know, with
6:23
Speaker 7: the drinking and.
6:28
Speaker 3: Erratic behavior.
6:30
Speaker 1: By this time, Dama had discovered that drinking was one
6:33
Speaker 1: way to dull the pain of his confusion over his
6:35
Speaker 1: sexuality and his sinister fantasies.
6:38
Speaker 9: Did you have problems with daydreaming or you do kind
6:40
Speaker 9: of a treat in school?
6:41
Speaker 8: Well, and in junior year, that's when I started drinking.
6:44
Speaker 9: So that's were you ever called on the copper for
6:47
Speaker 9: that a couple of times? Yeah, he had promised was.
6:55
Speaker 7: Obviously someone getting drunk at seven in the morning is
6:58
Speaker 7: not a good thing showing up in school.
7:00
Speaker 6: Just wreeking of Booze.
7:03
Speaker 1: Jeffrey was a lonely teenager who kept to himself. When
7:07
Speaker 1: he did become the center of attention, it was accidental.
7:11
Speaker 7: Well, I was on the yearbook staff, along with a
7:13
Speaker 7: couple other of my friends. So we would go Dahmer
7:16
Speaker 7: into sneaking into various photos for the yearbook, and one
7:20
Speaker 7: of those was the National Honor Society, which obviously he
7:23
Speaker 7: was not a member of, And when the advisor caught
7:26
Speaker 7: a look of it as we were pasting it up,
7:29
Speaker 7: he blacked his face out of the photo, which they
7:31
Speaker 7: then ran, which is sort of a symbol of his
7:34
Speaker 7: wasted youth, just this blacked out face, you know, the
7:38
Speaker 7: boy who didn't exist.
7:40
Speaker 1: Jeffrey's complex character meant that while seemingly happy to fade
7:43
Speaker 1: into the shadows, he also felt a desperate need to
7:46
Speaker 1: draw attention to himself.
7:48
Speaker 7: A bunch of us got together and raised put a
7:52
Speaker 7: pool in of thirty five dollars. I think it was
7:54
Speaker 7: for him to put on a performance at the mall
7:56
Speaker 7: of his seizures and epileptic fits and acts of weirdness.
8:09
Speaker 1: Dirth also remembers stories of Dama experimenting with animals. His
8:13
Speaker 1: odd behavior was evident one fishing.
8:15
Speaker 7: Trip fish out of the lake, just a little sunfish,
8:20
Speaker 7: and took out a pocka knife and slashed it to bits.
8:27
Speaker 7: And my other friend said, what the hell did you
8:29
Speaker 7: do that for? Dahma responded, I just wanted to see
8:33
Speaker 7: what it looked like.
8:36
Speaker 1: As a teenager. As an extension of his childhood fascination
8:40
Speaker 1: of dead animals, Dama began to construct fantasies of sex
8:44
Speaker 1: with dead or unconscious men.
8:47
Speaker 5: Dahmer told me that on one occasion, he had seen
8:51
Speaker 5: in the newspaper on account of a young man who
8:53
Speaker 5: was killed on a motorcycle, and he fell in love
8:59
Speaker 5: with the individual just from the photograph. He actually went
9:03
Speaker 5: to the funeral home to a view of the corpse,
9:07
Speaker 5: but he became so aroused that he excused himself into
9:11
Speaker 5: the bathroom, where he masturbated.
9:13
Speaker 1: This was also apparent in his fantasy of killing a
9:16
Speaker 1: local junker.
9:18
Speaker 2: He thought he would wait in the bushes with the
9:19
Speaker 2: baseball bat. This guy would come by, and he'd balk
9:23
Speaker 2: him in the head and he'd have this guy.
9:26
Speaker 3: And he actually said.
9:26
Speaker 2: He went out and waited for the jogger one day
9:28
Speaker 2: with a baseball bat, but he didn't come by that day.
9:31
Speaker 1: The breakdown of his parents' marriage meant that eighteen year
9:34
Speaker 1: old Dama was left alone with his fantasies.
9:37
Speaker 7: His mom spled and his dad had already left and
9:40
Speaker 7: he was left alone in the house. But the adults
9:43
Speaker 7: really failed him. There's no question his parents as teachers.
9:48
Speaker 10: We were you pretty upset by that breakup, I know it. Yeah,
9:52
Speaker 10: it was pretty obvious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
10:00
Speaker 1: And it was this that led to the death of
10:02
Speaker 1: his first victim.
10:03
Speaker 5: Damer told me that one fantasy that he had was
10:07
Speaker 5: that he would encounter a hitchhiker and he would be
10:13
Speaker 5: have a narrow waist, broad shoulders, bird chast, He would
10:17
Speaker 5: not have a shirt on, and he would have very
10:20
Speaker 5: little hair.
10:21
Speaker 3: In his body.
10:22
Speaker 5: He would pick up this hitgehiker and that they would
10:25
Speaker 5: have a great time together in all sorts of sexual adventures.
10:30
Speaker 5: He was driving down the road and he saw his
10:35
Speaker 5: fantasy hitchhiker.
10:38
Speaker 1: The subject of Dumba's fantasy was sixteen year old Stephen Hicks.
10:43
Speaker 1: Hicks was a free spirit who was hitchhiking to a
10:45
Speaker 1: summer festival. This was a common form of transport in
10:49
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies Ohio. Little did Hicks know who he would
10:53
Speaker 1: encounter in this calm.
10:54
Speaker 2: He brought the guy home. They had access to alcohol.
10:58
Speaker 2: They were drinking. The guy a little intoxicated. But when
11:01
Speaker 2: the guy wanted to leave. Jeff did not want him
11:04
Speaker 2: to leave. He wanted him to stay because he was
11:05
Speaker 2: lonely and else he was intoxicated. He said that when
11:09
Speaker 2: he tried to stop the guy from leaving, a little
11:11
Speaker 2: bit of a wrastling match broke out, and as they
11:14
Speaker 2: were rastling around, that's when Jeff grabbed a handbire.
11:16
Speaker 3: Bell and smashed the guy on the head.
11:19
Speaker 2: Now, he said, when he hit him, he didn't really
11:22
Speaker 2: he wasn't thinking I'm going to kill this guy. I
11:24
Speaker 2: just want to keep him here.
11:26
Speaker 1: Dahma cut the body up and placed it in black binliners.
11:30
Speaker 1: He loaded them into his car and was planning to
11:33
Speaker 1: dispose of them when he was stopped by a police
11:35
Speaker 1: officer for a minor traffic offense.
11:40
Speaker 2: As he was writing him a ticket and came back
11:43
Speaker 2: to give him the ticket for crossing the yellow center line.
11:45
Speaker 2: He also, like any police officer, he took his flashlight
11:48
Speaker 2: and flashed inside the car to see if there's any
11:50
Speaker 2: weapons or any contraband, like.
11:52
Speaker 3: Any good cop.
11:53
Speaker 2: And he saw the five bags and the guy actually said, hey,
11:56
Speaker 2: what's that back there?
11:57
Speaker 3: And he said, oh, that's just some trash.
11:59
Speaker 2: I was going to take them. I just didn't get
12:01
Speaker 2: there yet, and the cop gave him the ticket for
12:04
Speaker 2: a cross in the center line and left.
12:06
Speaker 1: This was the first of the many missed opportunities when
12:09
Speaker 1: Dharma could have been stopped.
12:18
Speaker 7: This is Dahmer's house. This is where he killed his
12:22
Speaker 7: first victim. He took it into this crawl space and
12:29
Speaker 7: apparently stripped the flesh off the bones underneath there, and
12:35
Speaker 7: when the cops went in there, turned this light on
12:37
Speaker 7: it and the whole thing lit up. Ceiling, floor, walls, everywhere,
12:42
Speaker 7: just covered with dried blood.
12:45
Speaker 1: He then smashed the bones up with a sledgehammer, stood
12:48
Speaker 1: in the middle of the woods and spun in a
12:50
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty degree circle, throwing the remains as
12:53
Speaker 1: he turned.
12:56
Speaker 2: He said, for the next couple of weeks, you'd read
12:58
Speaker 2: the paper every day to see was there anything about
13:00
Speaker 2: this guy missing or anything.
13:02
Speaker 3: Never did.
13:03
Speaker 2: So he realized, I got away with murder. I killed
13:07
Speaker 2: somebody and nobody knows about it. I'm gay and nobody
13:11
Speaker 2: knows about it. Again, from the very beginning, more secrecy
13:15
Speaker 2: became part of his life. It also tortured him, and
13:18
Speaker 2: that's kind of how it started, and then it just
13:20
Speaker 2: grew from there.
13:22
Speaker 1: It would be nine years before Dama would kill again.
13:25
Speaker 1: Once he did, he would be unable to stop. Jeffrey
13:50
Speaker 1: Dahma began to drink heavily after enrolling in college. His
13:54
Speaker 1: attempt to lead a normal life was not going according
13:57
Speaker 1: to plan.
14:00
Speaker 2: After he had flunked out of Ohio State for being
14:05
Speaker 2: drunk and then got kicked out of the army, he
14:08
Speaker 2: had a short stint down at Florida, didn't last very.
14:12
Speaker 1: Long with no job and no skills, but consumed with
14:15
Speaker 1: a desire to kill again. Delma went to live with
14:17
Speaker 1: his grandmother in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, trying to find sonace in religion.
14:22
Speaker 2: And he said when he first came to West Dallit
14:24
Speaker 2: he would go with Grammar at a church on Sundays.
14:27
Speaker 3: He tried to read the Bible.
14:29
Speaker 2: He totally didn't do anything homosexual. He didn't try to
14:35
Speaker 2: get involved with any kind of gay stuff.
14:37
Speaker 3: He said, he really thought, this is the way to go.
14:40
Speaker 3: Religion is going to be my savior.
14:42
Speaker 1: For a while, Dlma was able to control his urges. However,
14:45
Speaker 1: this proved to be the calm before the storm.
14:49
Speaker 2: An interesting thing that tipped the balance for him was
14:52
Speaker 2: he was at the Wawatosa Library as he was sitting
14:56
Speaker 2: there reading a book, a young man walked by him
14:59
Speaker 2: and threw a crumpled up peoples of paper in front
15:01
Speaker 2: of him and walked by. Jeff took it, opened it
15:04
Speaker 2: up and inside and said, if you want to blow job,
15:07
Speaker 2: meet me in the men's room.
15:09
Speaker 11: Do you think that that note throwing thing was kind
15:11
Speaker 11: of a catalyst, kind of a trip off?
15:12
Speaker 8: It seems a way to hear, because that's when everything
15:17
Speaker 8: started falling hard.
15:18
Speaker 9: What does that mean to you?
15:19
Speaker 8: Being this thing? It just was just sitting there sort
15:23
Speaker 8: of throwing out a challenge to whoever. I'm sure enough
15:26
Speaker 8: was started.
15:27
Speaker 9: He didn't know he found again, I didn't, He didn't
15:29
Speaker 9: meet up with.
15:34
Speaker 5: He said that set the stage for seeking more contact
15:40
Speaker 5: from a sexual side with young men, and that that
15:46
Speaker 5: led to homicide, and that went on seventeen more times.
15:51
Speaker 1: Incapable of relating to people, but desperate for his own
15:54
Speaker 1: brand of necrophilic sexual contact, in nineteen eighty five, Dama
15:59
Speaker 1: started to hang out in gay bath houses, where he
16:02
Speaker 1: would take his partner to a cubicle and drug them.
16:05
Speaker 3: He was a very selfish lover.
16:07
Speaker 2: He wanted to be the giver. He did not want
16:11
Speaker 2: to be the receiver of homosexual sex.
16:15
Speaker 3: Actually he enjoyed.
16:18
Speaker 2: Oral and anal sex, but did not want anyone to
16:24
Speaker 2: perform anal sex on him.
16:26
Speaker 1: Sex Fordama was a matter of obtaining and exercising physical
16:29
Speaker 1: control of his partner. But when word got around that
16:32
Speaker 1: he was drugging young men, he was banned from the
16:35
Speaker 1: local homosexual hangouts so resorted to using hotels.
16:39
Speaker 2: Jeff met an individual at a tavern and convinced him
16:43
Speaker 2: to come back where he had a room here at
16:46
Speaker 2: the Ambassador Hotel, and he brought gentlemen back to his hotel,
16:51
Speaker 2: drugged him with the drug alcohol combination, and then Jeff himself,
16:57
Speaker 2: according to he blacked out. When he woke up in
17:00
Speaker 2: the morning, this this person was lying next to him
17:03
Speaker 2: dead and was beaten about the face and the chest
17:08
Speaker 2: and the body. And Jeff figured that he did kill him,
17:11
Speaker 2: but he didn't. He couldn't remember doing it because he
17:14
Speaker 2: was an alcoholic blackout.
17:16
Speaker 5: He went to department store across the street. He bought
17:21
Speaker 5: a very large suitcase or a small trunk if you will,
17:26
Speaker 5: and brought it up to the room and put the
17:30
Speaker 5: body in it, and actually had the hotel thus boy
17:34
Speaker 5: help him bring the body down to the street where
17:38
Speaker 5: he hailed a cab. The cab driver helped him load
17:41
Speaker 5: it into the cab and said to Dahmer, this is
17:47
Speaker 5: really heavy, buddy. What he got in here a body?
17:50
Speaker 5: And Dahmer said, yeah, I do, and that they both
17:52
Speaker 5: laughed about it.
17:54
Speaker 12: After the ambassador, one that was at did you find
17:57
Speaker 12: that pleasurable or was that equally frightening?
18:01
Speaker 9: Was for what reason was that with fright.
18:04
Speaker 8: Because it was totally a plan. Was surprised to me
18:07
Speaker 8: that it happened.
18:08
Speaker 1: Very happy for the people of Milwaukee. It was just
18:13
Speaker 1: the beginning of a killing spree that would last five years.
18:18
Speaker 1: District Attorney Michael McCann remembers the time.
18:21
Speaker 4: Well Dahmer killed sixteen young men between nineteen eighty seven
18:26
Speaker 4: and nineteen ninety one. We had no idea that a
18:30
Speaker 4: serial slayer was operating in our city.
18:32
Speaker 1: From this moment onwards, Dama continued to kill. Sometimes there
18:36
Speaker 1: would be months, weeks, or even just days between his killings.
18:41
Speaker 1: After already killing four men, in August nineteen eighty eight,
18:44
Speaker 1: Dama made a fatal mistake. His fifth victim escaped. The
18:48
Speaker 1: police were called, and Darma was arrested for molesting and
18:51
Speaker 1: taking photographs of a thirteen year old boy, with the
18:56
Speaker 1: police and the court unaware of his grisly death toll.
18:59
Speaker 1: He was sentenced to do only twelve months in a
19:01
Speaker 1: low security prison. His defense lawyer was Gerald Boyle.
19:05
Speaker 6: He had spent first year in a very very uncomfortable
19:08
Speaker 6: environment of the county jail, where he could only get
19:11
Speaker 6: out to go to work, a very hard way to
19:14
Speaker 6: serve time. So the judge gave him this very strong sentence, but.
19:20
Speaker 3: Nobody kick.
19:21
Speaker 6: Yes, he had already killed four people by that time.
19:25
Speaker 1: Dahma's sentence was reduced after he made a desperate plea
19:28
Speaker 1: to the court, stating that what he did was deplorable
19:31
Speaker 1: and assuring the judge that it would never happen again,
19:34
Speaker 1: but it soon would. Dahma needed to get his own place.
19:43
Speaker 1: He moved from his grandmother's house to Flat two one
19:46
Speaker 1: to three Oxford apartments.
19:48
Speaker 2: So here's the building where it used to be. And
19:51
Speaker 2: now the city has done nothing with this, absolutely nothing,
19:55
Speaker 2: It just sits there.
19:55
Speaker 8: Fallum.
19:59
Speaker 2: Now the building will I was in this design. It
20:01
Speaker 2: was a rectangle, three story white stucco thirty six unit apartments.
20:08
Speaker 1: Behind this door was a place for Dama to fulfill
20:11
Speaker 1: his fantasies and commit horrendous acts on others. A place
20:15
Speaker 1: of death and destruction. He would pick out many of
20:20
Speaker 1: his victims from gay buzz.
20:22
Speaker 2: This area here is pretty much where kind of the
20:25
Speaker 2: gay area kind of starts. This place right here two
20:28
Speaker 2: nineteen was the place he liked to go for the
20:31
Speaker 2: They would have the drag shows right next to it.
20:35
Speaker 2: Sey Levie was another one of his favorites. As we
20:38
Speaker 2: go this way, there's there's a couple now. He was
20:40
Speaker 2: considered kind of a honey. I mean he was a
20:43
Speaker 2: nice looking guy. I mean people thought he was nice looking.
20:46
Speaker 2: And like I said, I wish I could be as
20:49
Speaker 2: lucky with women as this guy was with men. I
20:51
Speaker 2: mean there's quite a He got laid a lot, and
20:56
Speaker 2: he didn't kill everybody that he was sexually involved with.
21:00
Speaker 1: Local bartender Tony Timer remembers Darma, Well.
21:06
Speaker 13: Come to the back bar and he'd order a drink,
21:08
Speaker 13: and you get a drink and you go and he'd
21:09
Speaker 13: sit in the corner. He was in his own little world,
21:11
Speaker 13: or like he was always waiting for something, which obviously
21:13
Speaker 13: he was.
21:14
Speaker 8: You know.
21:15
Speaker 1: It was here that Dama met Tony's good friend Eddie Smith.
21:20
Speaker 3: Eddie was such.
21:23
Speaker 13: A wild, crazy person, so you couldn't help it like him,
21:26
Speaker 13: which you know Dahmer did. And so they knew each
21:30
Speaker 13: other well, you know, well enough to make him comfortable
21:33
Speaker 13: enough to go into a house and take photographs.
21:37
Speaker 1: Eddie dreamt of becoming a model, and Dama knew all
21:39
Speaker 1: the right things to say. At one hundred dollars a session,
21:43
Speaker 1: it was easy money.
21:44
Speaker 13: Edie would be sitting at the bar and all of
21:46
Speaker 13: a sudden, you know if Sometimes he would turn around
21:48
Speaker 13: and say, I gotta go, We gotta make some money,
21:50
Speaker 13: and I'm like, where are you going? And he'd just
21:52
Speaker 13: turn around and look towards the hallway and I'd see
21:55
Speaker 13: Jeffrey's standing right there, and I'm like, oh, you're going.
22:00
Speaker 3: Well, calling when you're whatever, you know.
22:03
Speaker 1: On Wednesday, the twenty fourth of June nineteen ninety, Eddie
22:07
Speaker 1: met up with Dama and was seen dancing with him
22:09
Speaker 1: at the Phoenix Club.
22:11
Speaker 3: He just left with Dahma and never came back.
22:14
Speaker 1: It was only at the trial years later that Tony
22:16
Speaker 1: realized that the same quiet man who used to drink
22:19
Speaker 1: at the end of his bar was the same man
22:22
Speaker 1: who had brutally murdered his friend.
22:25
Speaker 13: The community was shattered, you know, I mean people stopped
22:31
Speaker 13: coming out.
22:32
Speaker 3: I blew my life a part.
22:33
Speaker 13: It didn't just affect my life.
22:38
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just the gay community that Dama targeted.
22:42
Speaker 1: He was an opportunistic killer who was always on the
22:45
Speaker 1: lookout for potential prey.
22:47
Speaker 2: One of his victims was in the bus stop right here,
22:50
Speaker 2: right up here, as a young man from Upper Michigan
22:57
Speaker 2: who was just down here visiting, and Jeff Dohmer met
23:01
Speaker 2: him in the bus stop right over there in front
23:03
Speaker 2: of that McDonald's and convinced him to come home with him.
23:08
Speaker 3: That was the end of that guy.
23:12
Speaker 4: Some of the men that he victimized were homosexual somewhere
23:15
Speaker 4: not He would approach them and suggest that he'd like
23:18
Speaker 4: to take pictures of them.
23:20
Speaker 3: Would they come to his apartment.
23:21
Speaker 4: He had already prepared at that apartment a drug that
23:24
Speaker 4: he would induce them to drink.
23:28
Speaker 3: He said.
23:28
Speaker 5: Once he snapped the lock on the door and the
23:33
Speaker 5: person was in his apartment, he seemed to become more aggressive,
23:38
Speaker 5: more powerful. It was almost like a psychological transformation, and
23:44
Speaker 5: he became more sexually aroused.
23:49
Speaker 2: He would lay listening to their heart and he trained
23:52
Speaker 2: himself to learn when they were coming out of the
23:55
Speaker 2: drug induced coma by their breathing, because it would start
24:00
Speaker 2: to get kind of sharp and short from the long
24:02
Speaker 2: breathing of a drug induced and that's when he knew
24:05
Speaker 2: it was time to kill them.
24:06
Speaker 1: He would then perform oral sex on them before strangling
24:10
Speaker 1: and dismembering them, and often keeping his favorite body parts
24:13
Speaker 1: around his flat for days on end.
24:16
Speaker 5: Sometimes he would have sex with the individual as they
24:19
Speaker 5: were unconscious, but always after they were dead as well.
24:24
Speaker 5: So I mean it became I think the preference was
24:28
Speaker 5: for the dead person because that way he didn't have
24:30
Speaker 5: to deal with there with conversation, He didn't have to
24:33
Speaker 5: deal with denials or rejections. It was strictly on his
24:39
Speaker 5: own turf. At that time, he had all of his
24:43
Speaker 5: victims back at his apartment where he would be able
24:46
Speaker 5: to enjoy himself by going through the rituals that he
24:51
Speaker 5: needed to perform acts of sexual activity combined with destruction
24:59
Speaker 5: of the bodies.
25:00
Speaker 2: He would come back from work and make love with
25:02
Speaker 2: the dead body. He would sleep with it, he would
25:04
Speaker 2: lie with it, he would rob it and have sex
25:08
Speaker 2: with it.
25:09
Speaker 5: He was just very very enamored with the concept of
25:14
Speaker 5: opening a body, seeing the internal organ spill forth. And
25:20
Speaker 5: several of the bodies he would put in his bathtub
25:23
Speaker 5: and pack with ice in midweek because he had to
25:26
Speaker 5: work the next day, so he could keep them for
25:29
Speaker 5: the weekend where he had more time to enjoy himself
25:32
Speaker 5: with these bodies.
25:34
Speaker 3: He said.
25:34
Speaker 5: To do that, he'd have to shovel with cold water
25:37
Speaker 5: so he.
25:37
Speaker 3: Would melt the ice.
25:39
Speaker 5: Was uncomfortable, it was well worth it.
25:43
Speaker 1: One way to understand Dama's obscure fantasy world is to
25:46
Speaker 1: talk to someone who shares Dama's interest in death and bodies.
25:51
Speaker 1: Niko Klaus is better known as the Vampire of Paris.
25:56
Speaker 1: A convicted cannibal and murderer, Klaus killed a man in
25:59
Speaker 1: cold blood in October nineteen ninety four. He served just
26:03
Speaker 1: seven years in prison and is now free to walk
26:06
Speaker 1: the streets.
26:09
Speaker 14: So I can really relate to somebody like him. I
26:12
Speaker 14: can understand what went through his mind and what his
26:15
Speaker 14: obsessions were. He was really concerned with the esthetics of death,
26:24
Speaker 14: how beautiful they looked like in his eye. This is
26:28
Speaker 14: why he took photographs of his victims. He would pose
26:32
Speaker 14: them in twisted positions.
26:34
Speaker 9: Yeah, what was the idea to pose in there.
26:37
Speaker 8: It was just a way to exhibit control.
26:41
Speaker 11: To look and took, situate, and seek, keeping his photographs
26:47
Speaker 11: and was important to you as well, right use of
26:49
Speaker 11: the pastor yeah, and you had a lot of right.
26:54
Speaker 2: It continued on and grew and momentum that the passions
26:58
Speaker 2: and the loss became stronger. His want to look for
27:01
Speaker 2: this perfect orgasm, I guess you could call it. He
27:05
Speaker 2: had to do more and more things in order to
27:08
Speaker 2: have this satisfying orgasm. It just started with having pornographic
27:12
Speaker 2: homosexual arm sex, and then actually having homosexual sex with
27:16
Speaker 2: people in the baths, and then having sex and killing,
27:21
Speaker 2: and then having sex with dead people, and then having
27:25
Speaker 2: sex with the viscera, and then actually eating the people
27:28
Speaker 2: that he had sex with to get this superb orgasmic experience.
27:36
Speaker 1: How does a human being get to the point that
27:38
Speaker 1: they can only eat the flesh of another Only another
27:41
Speaker 1: cannibal can truly know. Nico was working as a mortuary
27:45
Speaker 1: assistant at a Parisian morgue when he tried human flesh
27:49
Speaker 1: for the first time.
27:50
Speaker 14: There is a state of euphroia right after you have
27:55
Speaker 14: done it. You refeel on a big high and uh,
28:01
Speaker 14: you are like on the top of a mountain.
28:05
Speaker 15: During dismemberment that you saved harder muscle heat. I cut
28:15
Speaker 15: it into small pieces and Washington put it in the
28:22
Speaker 15: these uh.
28:22
Speaker 8: Plastic clear plastic freezer bags and put them on the
28:26
Speaker 8: floor freezer, just as an escalation, trying something new and dissatisfying.
28:33
Speaker 8: And I would cook it and then uh, look the
28:37
Speaker 8: picture imagine it was afterwards.
28:40
Speaker 9: Did that have any any positive effect to that?
28:43
Speaker 8: That ritual? It satisfying, It made it feel like they
28:46
Speaker 8: were more part of me.
28:49
Speaker 2: What he did was he bought a adaptable grill to
28:52
Speaker 2: put on his gas stove. We found this and he
28:55
Speaker 2: said he would just kind of seer it on both
28:57
Speaker 2: sides with the little oil. He did add some condiments
29:02
Speaker 2: to it, some vegetables and mushrooms and onions, and towards
29:05
Speaker 2: the end there's.
29:06
Speaker 3: The month before we caught him.
29:08
Speaker 2: Pretty much the only meat that he ate was was
29:11
Speaker 2: human flesh.
29:13
Speaker 14: Taste like hoss meat in my experience, but of course
29:17
Speaker 14: it depends on the pot the sweet.
29:20
Speaker 1: Ultimately, Doma wanted a partner he could completely control, dead
29:25
Speaker 1: or alive.
29:26
Speaker 5: He began fantasizing that he could make things much better
29:31
Speaker 5: for himself by creating a sex zombie, and the sex
29:35
Speaker 5: zombie he thought would stay with him and all the
29:39
Speaker 5: time he would not have to murder anymore.
29:43
Speaker 16: I wasn't getting satisfaction, so I took it to a
29:49
Speaker 16: new lettle. I had a handle that I used them
29:55
Speaker 16: to us like a stall arm system more words, very
30:02
Speaker 16: quickly and with a large syringe. I filled that up
30:07
Speaker 16: with wasted, killed it and projected in front, hoping to
30:13
Speaker 16: produce his stake.
30:15
Speaker 14: He was not interested in having a relationship with a
30:19
Speaker 14: willing victim. He wanted total control over a human body
30:27
Speaker 14: and do whatever he wanted.
30:28
Speaker 1: He had met fourteen year old kernerac Centosymphony in the
30:32
Speaker 1: mall when he tried out his new drilling technique, but
30:35
Speaker 1: he made the mistake of leaving him alone.
30:37
Speaker 8: I saw him sitting on the sidewalk. Two girls were
30:41
Speaker 8: with him. They called the police. Had to think of
30:45
Speaker 8: the story quickly and told him that he was a
30:48
Speaker 8: friend who gets drunk. He was not wanting the.
30:51
Speaker 16: Backs of one officer to grab him by this and
30:53
Speaker 16: another armer grabbed him on the.
30:55
Speaker 8: Other arm, and they walked him up with the permised
30:59
Speaker 8: and they left.
31:00
Speaker 9: That's my second, right away, how are it takeing?
31:05
Speaker 7: With gay?
31:11
Speaker 1: Yet again, like many before them, the police were taken
31:14
Speaker 1: in by the courtiers Doctor Jekyl side of Jeffrey Dahmer's personality,
31:18
Speaker 1: but with the bodies piling up and a pungent smell
31:21
Speaker 1: emanating from his apartment, it wouldn't be long before he
31:24
Speaker 1: would start drawing attention to himself.
31:26
Speaker 2: Jeff said that this was a continual problem, the smell
31:31
Speaker 2: that his neighbors the building supervisor complained about the smell.
31:37
Speaker 1: So pac liber Princeville was in charge of Dharma's apartment
31:41
Speaker 1: building and had to deal with the complaints.
31:43
Speaker 5: Somebody told me that it is coming from his apartment
31:49
Speaker 5: and so I had to call him and ask him
31:52
Speaker 5: what's going on?
31:53
Speaker 3: Can't he clean up or what?
31:57
Speaker 8: I either blame it on the freezer or fish taint.
32:01
Speaker 8: He really said, he almost passed out. What was in
32:03
Speaker 8: the three heads obstrictive.
32:09
Speaker 1: The man who brought an end to Doma's reign of
32:11
Speaker 1: terror was thirty two year old Tracy Edwards, who, after
32:15
Speaker 1: escaping from DAMA, was running down a street with a
32:17
Speaker 1: pair of handcuffs on one wrist when he managed to
32:20
Speaker 1: flag down a passing police car.
32:23
Speaker 4: Had the officer been able to unleash that handcuff, that
32:27
Speaker 4: may have been the end of it.
32:29
Speaker 17: So they went back to Dahmer's residency.
32:31
Speaker 3: Jeff opened the door.
32:32
Speaker 2: They they said who they were, what they wanted, But
32:36
Speaker 2: Jeff didn't have the key for the handcuff because he didn't.
32:40
Speaker 2: The way he got the handcuffs back from his victims
32:42
Speaker 2: was by cutting off their hands.
32:43
Speaker 4: When they entered the apartment, one of the officers saw
32:47
Speaker 4: some pictures in a bedroom of a skinning of a
32:51
Speaker 4: human being. Looked at the pictures, was surprised, then looked
32:54
Speaker 4: around the room and realized he was in the very
32:57
Speaker 4: room where those pictures had been taken. Yelled out to
33:00
Speaker 4: his partner grab him.
33:05
Speaker 2: When I arrived, I saw a Dahmer was arrested on
33:08
Speaker 2: the ground, handcuffed, and I was told by the officers
33:11
Speaker 2: to look in the refrigerator at this time. When I
33:14
Speaker 2: did open up the refrigerator, what I found in there
33:16
Speaker 2: was an empty refrigerator with a cardboard box containing a
33:20
Speaker 2: freshly severed head of a black mail.
33:23
Speaker 3: The eyes and the mouth were open. Should be stated
33:25
Speaker 3: that the interior refrigerator.
33:27
Speaker 2: Was immaculately clean. In the back was a box of
33:31
Speaker 2: arm Hammer baking soda and on the side were condiments mustard,
33:36
Speaker 2: ketchup a one sauce. I felt fear from the bottom
33:40
Speaker 2: of my feet all the way to the top of
33:42
Speaker 2: my head, and you can't make sense of anything that
33:44
Speaker 2: looks so bizarre.
33:46
Speaker 1: Dama's killing spray was finally brought to an end. What
33:49
Speaker 1: was motivating Jeffrey Dahma to kill, dismember, and eat his victims?
33:54
Speaker 1: Was he sane or insane? Jeffrey Dahmer was just eighteen
34:14
Speaker 1: years old when he took the life of his first victim.
34:18
Speaker 1: Nine years later, he was driven to kill again. It
34:22
Speaker 1: was after this that the killings escalated. He continued to kill,
34:26
Speaker 1: and for years he got away with murder. No one
34:29
Speaker 1: suspected the mild mannered, good looking, middle class boy of
34:33
Speaker 1: any further wrongdoing.
34:35
Speaker 2: In a long list of these, I mentioned the judge
34:37
Speaker 2: that commuted as sons, the first police officer that let
34:40
Speaker 2: him go in Ohio when he first got out he
34:44
Speaker 2: was on probation, But not once during his entire time
34:48
Speaker 2: of being on probation did a probation officer come to
34:51
Speaker 2: his apartment, much less make a surprise visit to his apartment.
34:56
Speaker 3: Also, he was under court.
34:58
Speaker 2: Order to see a psychologist every month, and some of
35:01
Speaker 2: the days he had just killed somebody over the weekend
35:05
Speaker 2: and chopped them up and threw them away, And then
35:07
Speaker 2: he was sitting in talking to the psychologists, putting on
35:10
Speaker 2: a front and being cleared to go.
35:13
Speaker 1: This time was different. They had him in custody and
35:16
Speaker 1: they weren't about to let him out of their sight.
35:18
Speaker 1: Knowing that it was all finally over, Dama signed away
35:21
Speaker 1: his rights to an attorney. From midnight into the early
35:24
Speaker 1: hours of the next morning, he started unveiling the wicked
35:27
Speaker 1: truth behind his evil acts.
35:29
Speaker 2: He didn't tell us about eating people right away. In
35:32
Speaker 2: the freezer part of the refrigerator, they found individually wrapped
35:36
Speaker 2: and prepared body parts the thigh, bicep, heart, liver.
35:44
Speaker 1: As Kennedy continued his interrogation, the most pertinent question was why.
35:49
Speaker 2: There was mental illness in his family. And that's not
35:52
Speaker 2: a stigma. I mean, a lot of our families have
35:54
Speaker 2: mental illnesses. The fact that there was a lot of
35:56
Speaker 2: arguing going on between his mom and dad and when
35:58
Speaker 2: he was growing up, the fact that he fell to band,
36:01
Speaker 2: and I mean all these things together, could they produce who.
36:05
Speaker 1: Knows had his desertion as a teenager left Jeffrey with
36:09
Speaker 1: a fear of abandonment that affected his adult life.
36:13
Speaker 2: We had discussions about love because I said, Jeff, why
36:15
Speaker 2: don't you just have a regular boyfriend? You know I mean,
36:18
Speaker 2: and then you woudn't have to kill these But he said,
36:20
Speaker 2: people always left. I could never get anyone to stay
36:24
Speaker 2: with me, So I saw that the only way I
36:26
Speaker 2: can keep them with me was by killing them, but
36:30
Speaker 2: by actually eating the person that this young man actually
36:33
Speaker 2: became part of jeff Dahmer.
36:35
Speaker 5: Dahmer did state that he was there was not a
36:39
Speaker 5: victim of his crimes, that he did not personally love
36:43
Speaker 5: and would like to have stayed on a permanent level.
36:48
Speaker 5: It all boiled on the same routine when they were
36:52
Speaker 5: going to leave, That's when they died.
36:56
Speaker 1: Even Dama himself can't provide an explanation.
37:00
Speaker 12: What do you account to the fact that you're getting
37:02
Speaker 12: it to do so often, the.
37:06
Speaker 8: Fact that I was desperately right making some satisfiable. It
37:12
Speaker 8: never did completely.
37:14
Speaker 1: But was it just a simple case of not being
37:16
Speaker 1: able to find what he was looking for?
37:18
Speaker 12: And you met somebody who consensually would set up let
37:24
Speaker 12: the arrangement with you, would you have abandoned then the
37:29
Speaker 12: procedure that you stayed with.
37:32
Speaker 16: The person would have had to be totally compliant, willing
37:36
Speaker 16: to do whatever.
37:38
Speaker 8: It's just like that. That's true.
37:41
Speaker 1: There was never any doubt that Dama committed these heenous crimes.
37:45
Speaker 1: His sixty hour confession and the insurmountable evidence was to
37:48
Speaker 1: solve a complicated question. Was Darma sane or insane? If
37:54
Speaker 1: the court found Dharma sane, he would spend the rest
37:56
Speaker 1: of his life in prison. If they judged him insane,
37:59
Speaker 1: he would go to a psychiatric hospital, from which one
38:02
Speaker 1: day he could possibly be released. Prosecutor Michael McCann had
38:06
Speaker 1: a different approach to the trial.
38:09
Speaker 4: We Heaven Wisconson what's called a bifurcated trial. We use
38:13
Speaker 4: the same jury, but we do it sequentially. First, did
38:16
Speaker 4: he do the slayings? Secondly, was he sane or insane
38:18
Speaker 4: at the time? So the second part of the trial
38:22
Speaker 4: was the real issue that went on for several weeks
38:24
Speaker 4: in this very courtroom.
38:26
Speaker 1: Dama called on his old defense attorney, Gerald Boyle. Boyle
38:30
Speaker 1: felt his client had to be insane.
38:33
Speaker 6: Kelling didn't obviously, meaning to him. He had no conscience,
38:37
Speaker 6: so he was not going to be rehabilitated, no matter
38:40
Speaker 6: who was working with him.
38:42
Speaker 1: To the average person, killing and eating another human would
38:45
Speaker 1: not be considered a sane act. But according to Wisconsin's
38:49
Speaker 1: legal definition of sanity, if a person knows what they
38:52
Speaker 1: are doing is wrong but keeps doing it anyway, they
38:55
Speaker 1: are classified as sane.
38:57
Speaker 5: Garmer definitely knew what he was doing, but he didn't care.
39:02
Speaker 5: He justified what he was doing by his own standards.
39:07
Speaker 5: He knew what was against the law.
39:09
Speaker 4: I think after you kill a certain number of people,
39:12
Speaker 4: you've lost all track of morality. You no longer feel
39:15
Speaker 4: constrained by the morals that bind most of us.
39:20
Speaker 1: Dahma sat emotionless during the verdict before the judge and
39:23
Speaker 1: the families of the victims he'd killed and dismembered. He
39:26
Speaker 1: was judged to be sane and sentenced to life imprisonment.
39:29
Speaker 1: On the seventeenth of February nineteen ninety two.
39:32
Speaker 4: Someone asked me once, how many people do you have
39:35
Speaker 4: to kill and eat before you're insane?
39:37
Speaker 3: In Milwaukee.
39:38
Speaker 4: I can say this that everyone who knew Dahmer, and
39:41
Speaker 4: I think the most skilled psychiatrists said Dahmer was saying.
39:46
Speaker 4: That is even more frightening than believing Dahmer was insane.
39:51
Speaker 4: I believe he was sane and tragically evil.
39:56
Speaker 2: I felt that that was a just and for what
39:59
Speaker 2: he did, he needed to be removed from society forever
40:01
Speaker 2: for the rest of his wife. And I think that's
40:03
Speaker 2: what he should have gotten. That's what he got.
40:05
Speaker 4: Of course, we had fifteen verdicts of guilty and fifteen
40:09
Speaker 4: verdicts of sane while committing the crime, and then, of
40:12
Speaker 4: course the sentence of the court was such that so
40:14
Speaker 4: long nine hundred plus years, that he would never be released.
40:20
Speaker 4: When Dahmer went to the maximum security prison at Columbia,
40:24
Speaker 4: he came in contact with a minister or ministers and
40:27
Speaker 4: started reading the Bible and attending chapel there.
40:35
Speaker 1: Faced with life imprisonment, Dahma turned to religion once again
40:38
Speaker 1: for comfort and possible salvation. Eventually, he asked local Church
40:43
Speaker 1: of Christ minister Roy Radcliffe to come to the jail
40:47
Speaker 1: to baptize him.
40:49
Speaker 17: After I agreed to baptize him, he heaved a deep
40:53
Speaker 17: sigh of relief because he was afraid that I would
40:57
Speaker 17: say I can't baptize you because your sins are too grievous,
41:02
Speaker 17: Your sins are too bad, your sins are unforgivable. Well,
41:05
Speaker 17: that violates everything I've ever believed. And I would never
41:08
Speaker 17: say that Jesus Christ came to save sinners.
41:10
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Dahmer was a sinner. It's as simple as that.
41:13
Speaker 17: It was our first Thanksgiving holiday that's coming up, and
41:16
Speaker 17: so he made a big deal about giving this card
41:18
Speaker 17: to me, and it was written out and so forth.
41:20
Speaker 17: He talked about how much he was grateful for all
41:23
Speaker 17: that I'd done for him, and how thankful he was
41:24
Speaker 17: that I was in his life and I hadn't given
41:26
Speaker 17: up on him. The only emotion he ever had confessed
41:30
Speaker 17: to regarding his murders was love.
41:32
Speaker 3: It wasn't hatred at all.
41:34
Speaker 17: And I never saw a sense of malice or anger
41:36
Speaker 17: hatred toward any of his victims at all.
41:39
Speaker 1: In November nineteen ninety three, two inmates were killed by
41:43
Speaker 1: delusional schizophrenic Christopher Scarva at the Columbia Correctional Institute. One
41:48
Speaker 1: was Jesse Anderson, the other was Jeffrey Dahmer.
41:51
Speaker 4: Carver got a piece of equipment off an exercise machine,
41:56
Speaker 4: crept up upon Dahmer and bludgeoned him to death and
42:04
Speaker 4: then crossed the gymnasium and bludgeoned to death Anderson.
42:08
Speaker 2: He knew that he was gonna be killed if he
42:10
Speaker 2: asked for the general population, and talking to the investigators,
42:14
Speaker 2: said that the gentleman that was killed with him, Jesse Anderson,
42:19
Speaker 2: had all kinds of defensive marks where he tried to
42:22
Speaker 2: stop Carver, but Jeff Dahmer had no defensive marks on him.
42:27
Speaker 2: That all his strikes were from the beginning, from the head.
42:29
Speaker 2: And a very interesting thing what I thought was interesting
42:32
Speaker 2: was he was killed with a hand bar bell, which
42:36
Speaker 2: is the same instrument he used to kill his very
42:38
Speaker 2: first victim.
42:40
Speaker 17: He was a young man that I felt uh a
42:42
Speaker 17: friendship toward, and I had lost a friend, and so
42:44
Speaker 17: I was very a much uh in shock and and
42:46
Speaker 17: and disbelief uh about it.
42:48
Speaker 5: At first, I felt somewhat sorry for the man being
42:52
Speaker 5: beaten to death by another inmate. Uh didn't seem right,
42:58
Speaker 5: not supposed to be what happened.
43:00
Speaker 3: He's in prison. It did kind of shake me up
43:03
Speaker 3: a little bit.
43:04
Speaker 2: I don't know if this means, you know, not the
43:06
Speaker 2: macho guy I wanted to be. But I felt really
43:10
Speaker 2: conflicted about it because I had got.
43:12
Speaker 3: To know him.
43:13
Speaker 2: I saw him as a very tragic, tragic figure. I
43:17
Speaker 2: guess I felt sad that he was dead because I
43:19
Speaker 2: don't believe anybody needs to die like that.
43:26
Speaker 7: He died pretty brutally, but he can't say he didn't
43:30
Speaker 7: deserve it. But still I think at that point it's
43:35
Speaker 7: probably a relief to him. I would think that was
43:39
Speaker 7: no kind of life.
43:41
Speaker 13: I was kind of elated that was kind of happened, Like, well,
43:43
Speaker 13: good riddings. I'm glad it's over. That's the least he
43:46
Speaker 13: can do for me for taking my friend. He didn't
43:51
Speaker 13: deserve to live, you know.
43:53
Speaker 8: Not.
43:53
Speaker 17: After that, Jeffrey Duhmer was cremated immediately, although his brain
43:59
Speaker 17: was removed at the quest of his mother.
44:01
Speaker 3: She wanted the brain studied.
44:02
Speaker 17: Because she's trying to offset the belief that Lionel had
44:06
Speaker 17: suggested that somehow his brain was deformed. About a year later,
44:11
Speaker 17: the scientist involved with the brain decides there's no abnormality
44:15
Speaker 17: with his brain.
44:16
Speaker 1: Was Dama's behavior simply down to nurture? Was Dama not
44:20
Speaker 1: born to kill?
44:22
Speaker 8: No?
44:22
Speaker 18: I oh, he was born like that.
44:23
Speaker 6: And I think it's environmental and I disagree.
44:27
Speaker 18: I think anybody who in the young age is the
44:31
Speaker 18: victim of abject loneliness is probably going to have serious
44:36
Speaker 18: problems in life of one nature or another.
44:39
Speaker 3: Did he choose evil? Yes? Was he an evil person?
44:44
Speaker 2: I can't say, and I wouldn't say that about anybody,
44:46
Speaker 2: especially after I spent so much time with him and
44:49
Speaker 2: saw parts of him that were very much like you
44:52
Speaker 2: and me. He had cares and loves and feelings like
44:54
Speaker 2: anybody else. Did he have some I personally thought he
44:59
Speaker 2: was crazy. You'd have to be crazy to do what
45:01
Speaker 2: he did.
45:02
Speaker 4: I don't think Dahmer was born to kill. I think
45:05
Speaker 4: Dahmer had the benefits of a good family, a basically
45:08
Speaker 4: good family, a decent area in which to be raised,
45:12
Speaker 4: educational opportunities. He chose not to accept them.
45:16
Speaker 1: Whatever factors led to Dama's path of destruction, it will
45:19
Speaker 1: take the city of Milwaukee a long time to return
45:22
Speaker 1: to normality.
45:23
Speaker 3: He's garred the city.
45:25
Speaker 13: He's done something that will probably take generations to to heal,
45:32
Speaker 13: but for some people will never heal.