Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / The PERMA Framework - 5 Pillars of Positive Psychology for Sustainable Fat Loss | Ep 345

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The PERMA Framework - 5 Pillars of Positive Psychology for Sustainable Fat Loss | Ep 345 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: What's fascinating is that the smartest people often struggle the most with sustainable fat loss, not because they lack knowledge, but because they're missing the psychological infrastructure that makes any system actually work.
• 0:14
  Philip Pape: Today, we're looking at the PERMA framework from positive psychology five psychological elements that separate people who sustain their transformation and their results from those who keep spinning their wheels.
• 0:27
  Philip Pape: You'll discover how to engineer your fat loss system to work with your psychology.
• 0:32
  Philip Pape: So if you're tired of feeling like you're fighting yourself every step of the way, this episode will help you achieve success.
• 0:39
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
• 0:57
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, certified nutrition coach, philip Pape, and today we're going back into my training from positive psychology and help you tackle something that might sound counterintuitive to those of you who love data and systems thinking, like I do, because we're going to talk about why your perfectly calculated plan keeps falling apart.
• 1:17
  Philip Pape: Not because of the numbers, but because you don't have the psychological foundation that makes systems work for you.
• 1:25
  Philip Pape: Even if the system seems quote-unquote perfect, or the plan seems perfect, most people approach fat loss, or really any endeavor, as more of a mechanical problem.
• 1:34
  Philip Pape: Energy balance, calories in, calories out, track your macros, hit your target train, be consistent, etc.
• 1:39
  Philip Pape: But what they're missing is engineering the psychological elements that go along with the physiology, and those often determine whether you'll actually want to maintain those behaviors over time.
• 1:51
  Philip Pape: And we are talking about much more than just habit theory here.
• 1:54
  Philip Pape: I'm actually going to introduce you to a framework from positive psychology called PERMA, p-e-r-m-a, and we'll define what that means.
• 2:01
  Philip Pape: Positive psychology is a special field of psychology focused on the positive, not fixing the negative or dwelling on issues with the brain, but actually focusing on adding in the positive, and it was developed by Dr Martin Seligman, I want to say, in the 90s.
• 2:18
  Philip Pape: It's not a very old field, but it's a very empowering field when you can take away from it into this industry, and I'm going to show you how to apply it to create an approach for you that is not just working on paper but actually works in your real life.
• 2:31
  Philip Pape: Now, before we get into the PERMA framework, I want to let you know that I've been diving very deep into this intersection between psychology and physique development and I'm trying to create more exclusive content around mindset and psychological approaches that you're not going to find anywhere else, because it combines the engineering with the psychology, with the health and fitness.
• 2:51
  Philip Pape: And if you want access to this kind of deeper, more nuanced content, join my email list.
• 2:56
  Philip Pape: Just go to witsandweightscom slash email.
• 2:58
  Philip Pape: That's where you're going to get that.
• 2:59
  Philip Pape: I rarely take anything from there and publish it elsewhere, so it's a unique lens Plus.
• 3:04
  Philip Pape: You get notified of podcast episodes and special promotions, things like that, but mostly this very unique content that I think will help you, give you frameworks, give you strategies that go beyond just the mechanics of fat loss and into the mental game, and that's really where things go up another level.
• 3:19
  Philip Pape: Things can finally stick for you.
• 3:22
  Philip Pape: All right, let's talk about why smart people you're a smart person, right Listening to this show, wits and Weights why we struggle with fat loss and I say we because I'm one of those, along with you, not that I'm smart, but that I struggle with fat loss.
• 3:34
  Philip Pape: Hopefully I'm a little bit smart too, but that's a different topic.
• 3:36
  Philip Pape: All right, the first thing I want to talk about is the intelligence paradox, and this might sting because if you are listening to the show, as I just said, you're probably pretty intelligent.
• 3:48
  Philip Pape: You have a successful career, or maybe you're a stay-at-home mom or, in other ways, fulfilled at doing what you do best at solving problems, understanding complex systems.
• 4:00
  Philip Pape: Yes, we all have challenges in our lives, of course, but you have this intelligence that's working for you in many areas of your life, but it might be working against you when it comes to your fitness, your health, your sustainable fat loss.
• 4:11
  Philip Pape: The reason why is that intelligent people often approach fat loss like they approach other problems, or a problem at work, right, A very mechanical thing, where you research it extensively, you create a detailed plan and then you optimize for efficiency.
• 4:26
  Philip Pape: Well, yeah, philip, because that's what you talk about all the time here, isn't it?
• 4:30
  Philip Pape: Well, that's part of it.
• 4:31
  Philip Pape: That's not all of it.
• 4:32
  Philip Pape: And if you treat your body just like a machine, a physical machine that responds predictably to inputs, then you're going to get frustrated when it doesn't seem to quite work and you're going to assume that you need better data, more precise tracking, a more sophisticated approach.
• 4:49
  Philip Pape: And, as an aside, a lot of you are not even tracking the bare minimum, and so there's a lot of power in getting more and better and more precise data, for sure.
• 5:00
  Philip Pape: So I'm not going to discount that at all.
• 5:02
  Philip Pape: It's the fact that that is not all you need.
• 5:06
  Philip Pape: So, if we look at the research from positive psychology, it tells us that sustainable behavior change isn't about.
• 5:12
  Philip Pape: It stands for positive emotion, engagement, relationships, meaning and accomplishment.
• 5:29
  Philip Pape: And these five elements are what psychologists have identified as the core components of human flourishing and well-being, backed by lots of research, lots of science.
• 5:41
  Philip Pape: And when your approach is missing these elements, when your life is missing these elements, you are trying to sustain behaviors that might not jive, that might make you feel worse about yourself, about your life, and that is a recipe for failure, no matter how perfect your macros are.
• 5:56
  Philip Pape: Let's just be honest.
• 5:57
  Philip Pape: So I wanna break down.
• 5:59
  Philip Pape: You're like, okay, that's the PERMA framework from psychology, great, how does that actually apply to fat loss?
• 6:04
  Philip Pape: Like when we get very specific and talk about getting lean, building muscle, losing fat, the physical things that we're trying to manifest, to be healthier, to live longer, to get the things that we want, to be more confident, all of that.
• 6:17
  Philip Pape: So let's start with a P positive emotion.
• 6:19
  Philip Pape: This isn't about delusional, toxic positivity.
• 6:23
  Philip Pape: It's not about pretending everything is great.
• 6:25
  Philip Pape: Positive emotions are critical as humans.
• 6:30
  Philip Pape: They broaden our thinking and they build our psychological resources, because when you feel good about your choices, like your nutrition choices, you're more likely to make good choices in the future.
• 6:42
  Philip Pape: But most people are associating their fat loss with negative things like stress, like guilt, like deprivation, like restriction.
• 6:49
  Philip Pape: They feel bad when they go over their calories, guilty when you eat something off your plan, stressed about hitting your targets every day.
• 6:57
  Philip Pape: All of that Sound familiar.
• 6:59
  Philip Pape: The research by Barbara Fredrickson, which is a very well-known name in positive psychology, shows that positive emotions literally expand our cognitive flexibility, right, our brain's resilience, our flexibility, and they help us build lasting psychological resources.
• 7:15
  Philip Pape: It's kind of like your mental bandwidth, and so in practical terms, this means, if you can find ways to feel good about your fat loss process, you're going to be more creative than in problem solving.
• 7:27
  Philip Pape: You're going to be more resilient when you face those setbacks and challenges, which is guess what?
• 7:32
  Philip Pape: Hashtag life, and you're going to be more motivated to continue.
• 7:35
  Philip Pape: And I'm so sorry I did a hashtag in there, all my fellow 40 somethings.
• 7:40
  Philip Pape: We didn't grow up with that, I'm ashamed, but anyway, that is where positive emotion comes in.
• 7:45
  Philip Pape: It is not being delusional.
• 7:46
  Philip Pape: As you guys know, I'm a pretty positive guy, kind of naturally, but I've also cultivated the idea of having an optimism bias and leaning into things that are positive so that I get the reinforcing feedback that this is a good thing that I want to keep doing.
• 8:02
  Philip Pape: Right, if you go to the gym and you suffer and you think it's a thing you hate and you don't like, of course you're not going to do it.
• 8:07
  Philip Pape: But if you can make it a positive experience not forcing that and not faking it, but actually doing things that make it genuinely positive of course you're going to want to do more of it.
• 8:19
  Philip Pape: So that's the first one how can you make your situation, your process, more positive?
• 8:25
  Philip Pape: Then we have E engagement.
• 8:27
  Philip Pape: Engagement is about finding flow.
• 8:31
  Philip Pape: Flow is a state you ever heard of the flow state?
• 8:33
  Philip Pape: It's a state where time seems to stop and whatever you're doing just feels intrinsically rewarding.
• 8:40
  Philip Pape: And just think about something you so love to do that you get lost for hours in it.
• 8:44
  Philip Pape: It might be woodworking, it might be playing an instrument, it might be playing a sport right, it could be just reading, it doesn't matter, but it's something challenging that puts you into a flow state.
• 8:55
  Philip Pape: Right, it's not passive.
• 8:57
  Philip Pape: It's not, for example, playing video games as much as I love those, to just pass the time and veg out.
• 9:03
  Philip Pape: It doesn't necessarily.
• 9:04
  Philip Pape: It's not necessarily the same as being in a flow state.
• 9:07
  Philip Pape: Now, you don't have to be an elite athlete to experience flow.
• 9:10
  Philip Pape: You don't have to be super skilled at something to experience flow, but you can find it in the process of gaining skill and challenging yourself.
• 9:16
  Philip Pape: That could be cooking, meal prepping, mindful eating, like all the things I'm talking about related to nutrition, even the process of tracking your food.
• 9:24
  Philip Pape: You can get into a flow state by shifting from a mentality of checklist habits to engaging rituals right, instead of just checking off okay, I hit my protein.
• 9:37
  Philip Pape: Let's focus on the creativity of finding ways to incorporate protein into meals that you enjoy, and that might be researching recipes.
• 9:47
  Philip Pape: That might be using AI to put things together.
• 9:49
  Philip Pape: That might be having fun at the grocery store trying to find ways to incorporate protein.
• 9:53
  Philip Pape: It might be planning out your meals right there's lots of different ways and it might not.
• 9:57
  Philip Pape: It might feel, let's say, hard or even not that fun at first.
• 10:01
  Philip Pape: Right, engagement isn't necessarily quote unquote fun, but challenging yourself and getting in that flow state and seeing a result will help you understand the output and feed back to wanting to do more of it.
• 10:16
  Philip Pape: Very much like having the positive emotions.
• 10:18
  Philip Pape: So finding a way to be in a flow state, and that might be mindfulness when you're lifting, you know, turning the music off and just really focusing on the form.
• 10:26
  Philip Pape: So this is kind of a complex area.
• 10:28
  Philip Pape: When we talk about engagement and flow and I'm kind of just scratching the surface, positive psychology is a very deep field.
• 10:34
  Philip Pape: So if you're more curious, definitely go look up the PERMA model.
• 10:37
  Philip Pape: And that brings us to R relationships.
• 10:40
  Philip Pape: So P-E-R-M-A PERMA model and that brings us to R relationships, so P-E-R-M-A PERMA relationships.
• 10:50
  Philip Pape: We as human beings are absolutely wired for connection.
• 10:52
  Philip Pape: Our social environment has an inordinate, a dramatically high influence on our habits.
• 10:55
  Philip Pape: I mean more than you can possibly imagine.
• 10:57
  Philip Pape: Research shows that weight loss interventions that involve friends, partners, result in significantly better outcomes than solo efforts.
• 11:05
  Philip Pape: Right, that relatedness, that community, is massive and this goes beyond just having a training partner.
• 11:11
  Philip Pape: It's really creating that identity within all of your relationships that supports your goals.
• 11:17
  Philip Pape: When your family understands and supports your nutrition choices.
• 11:22
  Philip Pape: When you have a community that normalizes the process, the ups and downs, they don't judge you, they don't come in and say what the heck are you doing?
• 11:30
  Philip Pape: That's weird, you're not going to succeed that way.
• 11:33
  Philip Pape: No, when they're positive and they normalize what you're doing and they understand the ups and downs.
• 11:37
  Philip Pape: When you feel connected rather than isolated in your efforts, then everything becomes so much easier.
• 11:45
  Philip Pape: This is a huge point of friction for people and so if we flip that around and we look for incorporating our identity and leaning into it with our relationships and then seeing what comes of that, seeing what relationships may be more toxic than we want or need in our life right now, seeing what Facebook groups we should and shouldn't be in, who we should and shouldn't follow, which podcasts we should and shouldn't listen to, right, who we should talk to versus who maybe we just will be friends, but they're not aligned with my goals right now.
• 12:13
  Philip Pape: So that's relationships.
• 12:14
  Philip Pape: Then we get to M for meaning.
• 12:16
  Philip Pape: So meaning is connecting your behavior to something bigger.
• 12:21
  Philip Pape: Some people call this spirituality, some people call this purpose.
• 12:25
  Philip Pape: It is just something bigger than yourself and bigger than the immediate results.
• 12:29
  Philip Pape: So this goes back to the superficial goals, the short-term goals, the vanity goals, which there's nothing wrong with those.
• 12:37
  Philip Pape: Right, I want abs, I want six pack abs for the summer.
• 12:40
  Philip Pape: But when pressure hits your system from life, those goals tend to collapse very quickly.
• 12:47
  Philip Pape: But meaning based goals like I want to be able to play with my kids without pain, or I want to model healthy behavior for my family.
• 12:55
  Philip Pape: Those are deeply rooted, they're so resilient, they don't collapse as easily because lots of things will flux up and down and change in your life and you're going to come back to that mentally and say I still want that.
• 13:07
  Philip Pape: When something challenges you in the short term, you might not still say I need to have abs for summer.
• 13:13
  Philip Pape: You get the difference right and again, it's not right or wrong, it's just how deep and meaningful do you want it to be to drive you.
• 13:21
  Philip Pape: Research shows that individuals with a greater sense of purpose live longer and they engage in better health behaviors period.
• 13:28
  Philip Pape: And when your fat loss journey becomes part of your larger life mission right, we're not talking about just losing weight and getting skinny or getting lean even.
• 13:36
  Philip Pape: We are talking about fat loss for the purposes of metabolic health, physical health, of fitness, of healthy aging when that becomes part of your larger mission in life, then any setbacks, any challenges just become that.
• 13:50
  Philip Pape: They become temporary obstacles rather than the reason that you're going to quit.
• 13:54
  Philip Pape: Because why would you quit when you have such a deep, purposeful goal to go after?
• 13:58
  Philip Pape: And that brings us to the final letter here A for accomplishment.
• 14:03
  Philip Pape: I love accomplishment.
• 14:05
  Philip Pape: This is about building self-efficacy through meaningful progress.
• 14:08
  Philip Pape: When somebody joins, for example, physique University, which we're going through a big relaunch now don't know if you heard.
• 14:14
  Philip Pape: We used to.
• 14:16
  Philip Pape: It used to be 87 a month.
• 14:17
  Philip Pape: Now we have two tiers.
• 14:18
  Philip Pape: One is 27 a month because I'm trying to make it more accessible to more people so that they can build this self-efficacy, so that they can find community A lot of the things we're talking about here today.
• 14:29
  Philip Pape: And when somebody joins and says you know, I thought I was going to come in here and you were just going to tell me, tell me my workouts, tell me the rest period, show me the videos, and just I was just going to follow it.
• 14:39
  Philip Pape: I said, no, actually you're lucky.
• 14:41
  Philip Pape: You're lucky, you found us because we are going to teach you to fish.
• 14:45
  Philip Pape: We're not going to give you a fish.
• 14:50
  Philip Pape: We're going to show you how to program, how to make adjustments, how to work with whatever your gym environment is.
• 14:53
  Philip Pape: Whether it's now or you move five years from now, or your physical situation changes or you have an injury, it doesn't matter.
• 14:58
  Philip Pape: We're not going to stick you to one method or one program.
• 15:02
  Philip Pape: We're going to give you the principles right, and that gives you self-efficacy, because it's not about external validation or hitting a specific program or numbers or plan, whether it's a template or anything.
• 15:16
  Philip Pape: It's the intrinsic satisfaction of growth and mastery.
• 15:20
  Philip Pape: I mean, let that sit with you for a bit.
• 15:22
  Philip Pape: If that doesn't appeal to you, then I'm sorry.
• 15:25
  Philip Pape: You're not going to find much fulfillment in your life.
• 15:28
  Philip Pape: I'm just going to be honest about it.
• 15:30
  Philip Pape: But if you embrace this idea of constant growth which, yes, means constant failures to get that growth and mastery was yes.
• 15:37
  Philip Pape: Yes Means having a purpose and understanding yourself at a deeper level and empowering yourself through all of these things we're talking about and focusing on the process rather than the outcome, that's going to be powerful.
• 15:50
  Philip Pape: You're not just trying to lose 20 pounds, you're not.
• 15:52
  Philip Pape: You're trying to focus on the day-to-day elements of mastery.
• 15:56
  Philip Pape: Now those could be very concrete things like okay, I'm going to plan my meals today to eat protein at every meal so that I can make sure I get 150 grams of protein.
• 16:03
  Philip Pape: Nothing wrong with that, absolutely.
• 16:05
  Philip Pape: Those are all micro pieces of the process and those kinds of behaviors are where the momentum comes.
• 16:11
  Philip Pape: Those little actions, those micro actions, those micro goals that all tie to your big purposeful goal.
• 16:16
  Philip Pape: That helps you build momentum and then create a sense of competence, confidence and competence and progress.
• 16:25
  Philip Pape: Even when little things like weight on the scale might not be moving for a few days or a few weeks, it doesn't matter.
• 16:30
  Philip Pape: You understand the big picture.
• 16:32
  Philip Pape: Now, as I'm explaining these concepts, I realize how much deeper we can go into each of these.
• 16:37
  Philip Pape: I mean, I could do months and months of episodes related to positive psychology, because the intersection between that and engineering and physique development is something I'm very passionate about and I'm developing more content around that going forward, because I think frameworks are super helpful and I think the fitness industry ignores this quite frequently.
• 16:56
  Philip Pape: So if you want to get that content, just a reminder I'm diving deeper into this stuff, into the psychology of sustainable change, in my email list.
• 17:04
  Philip Pape: Go to witsandweightscom slash email.
• 17:06
  Philip Pape: I just wanted to remind you again.
• 17:07
  Philip Pape: It came to mind that if you want more of this, join my list.
• 17:11
  Philip Pape: You'll get more of it.
• 17:12
  Philip Pape: Witsandweightscom slash email.
• 17:13
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 17:14
  Philip Pape: So here's where my engineering brain gets really excited, because you can engineer the psychological elements into your approach for something like fat loss.
• 17:24
  Philip Pape: And this isn't about hoping that you're going to feel motivated right, we've talked about motivation before.
• 17:29
  Philip Pape: That's not a thing.
• 17:30
  Philip Pape: It is really about creating the conditions that generate positive emotions, engagement, meaningful connections, purpose and accomplishment, per the PERMA model.
• 17:40
  Philip Pape: So for positive emotions, you might find a way to document your wins on a regular basis.
• 17:46
  Philip Pape: This could be a journal.
• 17:46
  Philip Pape: It could be as part of community.
• 17:48
  Philip Pape: You know we do that both in our Facebook group and more frequently in our Physique University, where we encourage you to tell us what were your wins.
• 17:56
  Philip Pape: Just lay it out there.
• 17:58
  Philip Pape: What were your wins, what went well?
• 18:00
  Philip Pape: We don't care about the things that went not well, what went well.
• 18:03
  Philip Pape: So you can look at where you felt good about your choices and lean into those.
• 18:09
  Philip Pape: For engagement, you could gamify anything Like you can gamify meal prep, try a new food each week.
• 18:16
  Philip Pape: You could approach your food tracking like a scientist, like you're gathering data about an interesting experiment.
• 18:22
  Philip Pape: And if you use macro factor, you get all these graphs and curves and sure you can go crazy with that.
• 18:27
  Philip Pape: But you could also use them and just try to understand all of these things and how they play together and really get in, get engaged and get into the flow of that.
• 18:35
  Philip Pape: For relationships, maybe share your goals with your family, invite their support, join a community.
• 18:40
  Philip Pape: Again, we have a free Facebook community or jump right into Physique University.
• 18:44
  Philip Pape: It's more accessible than ever.
• 18:46
  Philip Pape: For meaning, here's an idea I came up with.
• 18:49
  Philip Pape: You can write a letter to your future self describing how your health goals connect to your deeper values and life mission.
• 18:56
  Philip Pape: So write a letter to your future self describing how your goals connect to your deeper values and your life mission.
• 19:04
  Philip Pape: Literally, talk to yourself of the future, because that's going to start to get you thinking about did you accomplish what you intended to toward that deeper meaning in your future self, because that is what you are embodying right now your future self.
• 19:17
  Philip Pape: And then for accomplishment, I would say this is something we've probably talked about a lot, which is tracking behavioral metrics, not just the outcome metrics so that you can be consistent, and that could be as simple as your training log, but it could also be specific habits that you want to check off each day to make sure that you're doing them kind of like an off on not necessarily that you achieved a certain goal, because the goal is farther down the line.
• 19:47
  Philip Pape: So what's brilliant about this whole framework, the PERMA framework, is that when you get all five elements working together, they create this system that reinforces itself right, like the positive emotions will then make you more engaged.
• 19:57
  Philip Pape: When you're more engaged, guess what happens?
• 19:59
  Philip Pape: Your relationships are strengthened.
• 20:01
  Philip Pape: The strong relationships actually give you more meaning in your life, and then meaningful work leads to a greater sense of accomplishment.
• 20:08
  Philip Pape: And then, finally, guess what?
• 20:09
  Philip Pape: The accomplishment generates more positive emotions, boom.
• 20:12
  Philip Pape: It all ties together.
• 20:14
  Philip Pape: This is psychological momentum we're talking about right, or upward spiraling is another word that's been used.
• 20:22
  Philip Pape: You're not going to white knuckle your way through a diet hopelessly.
• 20:26
  Philip Pape: You're going to create conditions where the healthy behaviors feel good to maintain and you want to do them.
• 20:32
  Philip Pape: Because when you're struggling with consistency, you can take this framework now the PERMA framework, and audit yourself across these five dimensions, because usually one or two areas are quite a bit weaker than the others.
• 20:45
  Philip Pape: Maybe you've got the accomplishment piece down because you're great at tracking, but you're missing the relationship support.
• 20:51
  Philip Pape: Or maybe you're highly engaged with the process, but then you've lost sight of the deeper why the deeper?
• 20:56
  Philip Pape: Meaning.
• 20:57
  Philip Pape: So if you can identify the weakest PERMA element, that's one way to focus your energy on strengthening that, knowing that it will improve markedly your overall sustainability.
• 21:08
  Philip Pape: And I think about the most successful clients I've worked with and, yeah, they're doing all the things, but they also pay really close attention to their psychological state.
• 21:15
  Philip Pape: They have a high level of self-awareness Now.
• 21:17
  Philip Pape: They may not have it initially, and we work on that together.
• 21:19
  Philip Pape: It's part of the process.
• 21:21
  Philip Pape: May not have it initially, and we work on that together.
• 21:22
  Philip Pape: It's, it's part of the process.
• 21:23
  Philip Pape: But they notice when they're starting to feel the thing they don't want to feel.
• 21:25
  Philip Pape: Maybe they feel deprived and they're not empowered, even though they were empowered for a while.
• 21:29
  Philip Pape: And all of a sudden they're like I'm starting to feel this as a restrictive thing, and they catch themselves, when the process starts, feeling like drudgery rather than growth.
• 21:36
  Philip Pape: And that's a great place to be, because now you're at a fork in the road where you can do something about it, and then people who feel good about their process, then they make better choices, people are engaged in their habits, are more consistent.
• 21:48
  Philip Pape: People who feel supported are more resilient with periods, when, when, during difficult periods, and so guess what?
• 21:53
  Philip Pape: This is your life.
• 21:55
  Philip Pape: This isn't just fat loss, is it?
• 21:57
  Philip Pape: And I always like to bring it back to that, because at the end of the day, you're like, hmm, it's a pretty cool framework for everything I do, because sustainable fat loss it's not just about changing your body, but your relationship with the process of change.
• 22:09
  Philip Pape: That's why I love it so much because you can see it, it's visceral and when you align the approach with these psychology of wellbeing, your transformation becomes enjoyable and fulfilling as well, because it's aligned with your flourishing and your well-being.
• 22:25
  Philip Pape: All right, if today's episode resonated with you.
• 22:28
  Philip Pape: If you want to go deeper into the psychology of all of this, especially sustainable transformation, I'm creating exclusive content around these frameworks.
• 22:36
  Philip Pape: You're not going to find it anywhere else.
• 22:37
  Philip Pape: Join my email list at witsandweightscom slash email or click the link in the show notes and you'll get access to some of these advanced strategies, specific tools, deep dive into psychology.
• 22:49
  Philip Pape: Something will absolutely resonate.
• 22:51
  Philip Pape: I've heard from people all the time where they might have gotten 10 of my emails and you know that's fine and then email number 11 comes along.
• 22:58
  Philip Pape: They're like I had to hear this.
• 23:00
  Philip Pape: Oh, my God, that is me and thank you, you made my day.
• 23:03
  Philip Pape: Now I'm thinking differently and deeply about what's going on and if we can change our lives that way, that's powerful.
• 23:10
  Philip Pape: Go to witsowheightscom slash email to get the content.
• 23:13
  Philip Pape: Until next time, keep using your wits lifting those weights and remember, the most sophisticated system in the world is not going to work if it doesn't work with your psychology.
• 23:23
  Philip Pape: I want you to engineer your approach, but don't forget to engineer your mindset as well.
• 23:29
  Philip Pape: I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits and Weights podcast.