Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Sugar Baby Confessions and Assassin’s Clues

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Sugar Baby Confessions and Assassin’s Clues · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
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  Speaker 1: is so organised, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
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  Speaker 1: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
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  Speaker 1: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm
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  Speaker 1: an early bird, buying one present a week from now
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  Speaker 1: till Christmas, which makes budgeting less stressful. I can buy
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  Speaker 1: in-store or online from Macaulay.ie for home delivery or free
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: click and collect.
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  Speaker 2: So easy.
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  Speaker 1: Gifts they'll cherish at prices you'll love.
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  Speaker 3: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
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  Speaker 3: the road, when you're on the go.
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  Speaker 2: Juicy Scoop is the show to know.
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  Speaker 3: To the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: listen up. Woo, woo. Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop.
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have such a
• 1:04
  Speaker 5: juicy interview, you guys are gonna die. But first, let's
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: just do a couple updates and hot topics. I wanna
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: tell you, Patreon is gonna be off the hook this
• 1:15
  Speaker 5: Friday because I'm going to the Kathy Hilton holiday party
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: for DirecTV. That's happening, I'm gonna have that to talk
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: about and so much more. So make sure you go
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: to heathermcdonald.net Join the Patreon, and also that is where
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: you'll get my tickets to my three shows in February.
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: February 14th in New York City, D.C. is February 15th,
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: and February 16th is in New Jersey, Red Bank, New Jersey.
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: So get on that. Okay, you guys, a little bit
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: more about this podcast. Such a strange situation with this
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: young man who has been arrested, the assassin. We talked
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: a little bit about it on Tuesday's show. We obviously
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: know more. You'll probably know more as you're listening to
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: this as well. This is the information I have. As
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: we stated, this kid comes from, you know, a great education,
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: great privilege. He went to an all-boy prep school in
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: which he was the valedictorian. There's videos of him giving
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: a speech where he comes off just great. then went
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: to college. And there was a thing that said both
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: of his grandparents had died, one in 2016, one in 2017.
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: But a couple of years ago, he had some back injury.
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: And I don't know if he went surfing after or before,
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: but he was a surfer. And he got a surgery
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: that did not go well for him. And what is
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: being reported is Allegedly, that affected his ability to have
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: sex and that made him what people call an incel,
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  Speaker 5: which is this idea that these young men are really
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: turned towards kind of hating women or they don't have
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: sex with women and they turn inward and become kind
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: of strange. And it's something with that because he is
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  Speaker 5: a good looking guy. People have shown his social media,
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  Speaker 5: and he looks very fit, and he obviously was a surfer,
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: and he's fit now, what he appears to be, and
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  Speaker 5: just went down this really crazy dark path. And it's
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  Speaker 5: a very interesting thing, especially someone of such great privilege,
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: that you would think, what is it? What was the
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  Speaker 5: psychological break that made this young man decide, I should
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  Speaker 5: be doing better in life.
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  Speaker 2: I shouldn't be in pain. This is someone else's fault.
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: This is, you know, I'm going to do this thing
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  Speaker 5: and become a famous hero of the people by murdering
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  Speaker 5: this executive of health care.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, it's.
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  Speaker 2: Really crazy.
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  Speaker 5: I thought it was weird that he wasn't at McDonald's.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: I'm like, was he really eating at McDonald's or was
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: he using the internet.
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  Speaker 3: So he could open up his computer? Because that is
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: what he was doing.
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  Speaker 5: And reading all, I mean, for a few days, he
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: was the hero. People were dressing like him. People thought
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: it was great. There was definitely a lack of empathy
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  Speaker 5: for the murder victim's family, his kids, his mother, anybody
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  Speaker 5: that was associated with him. There was not a lot
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: of outpouring for him online. What was was like, who
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: is this hot guy and everything? So it was interesting
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: that he was probably looking at that when the patron
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: that the McDonald's called him in and he was arrested.
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: I just saw a video of him going into a
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  Speaker 5: jail and he's yelling out to the cameras saying, this
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  Speaker 5: is an injustice. This is unfair. This is an injustice
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  Speaker 5: to the American people. His parents, I guess, have spoken
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: slightly saying, we are just devastated. But that's about it
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: that I've seen. Like I said, I'm just.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Gathering it now. So really.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: weird and awful.
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  Speaker 5: Also, people are saying, why do we know so much
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  Speaker 5: about this guy, yet we still know very little about
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: who attempted, you know, to assassinate Trump. There were other
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: shooters recently that we don't know anything about, maybe because
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  Speaker 5: that man was killed and this one is going to
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: go on trial.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 5: It's just very, very strange. So that's where we are
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: with that, with Luigi Mangione. And I'm sure we'll know
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  Speaker 5: more and more.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: Megan Fox, who is expecting her fourth child, her first
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: with Machine Gun Kelly, they have broken up. TMZ is
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: reporting they have broken up. And the latest report is
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: people wondered if her co-star for a movie that's coming out,
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: it's called Servience or something. About a year ago, she
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: was with her co-star, who's a good-looking guy named Michelle Marones.
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: if there was something going on between them. But the
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: social media in which they were flirting and doing all
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  Speaker 5: this was, I think, over a year ago, in which
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  Speaker 5: he obviously got with Machine Gun Kelly within the year to,
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  Speaker 5: you know, procreate. So who knows why they broke up?
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: Machine Gun Kelly and she are twin flames. They share
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: the blood thing. They have on and off and on
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: and off with their relationship. So who really knows? Also
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: a little bit, Update on the Jay-Z. You know, in
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: talking about it, I read your comments and, you know,
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: Kate had said like, you know, on Tuesday's show, who
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: would let him write this statement? Well, his attorney is
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: Alex Spiro, and he has now spoken on Jay-Z's behalf.
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: And he has an interesting thing to say. He said,
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: a young woman has contacted their law firm and said,
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: I just want you to know that I contacted Busby's
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: law firm. to look into them representing me in a
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: sexual assault case. But it didn't involve P. Diddy or
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: Jay-Z or anybody else. And they were saying, well, when.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Did you meet P.
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  Speaker 3: Diddy?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And the girl was like, well, I didn't.
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  Speaker 5: And then they were like, well, when were you given
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: drugs in this particular case?
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And she's like, well, I wasn't. And so that is their.
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: Now saying that they got this call from this woman
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: to say that maybe, you know, Busby's firm is not really,
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: maybe they are sort of the ambulance chaser of this
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: and maybe they're encouraging people to say things that aren't
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: particularly true to add in the narrative of what they're saying. Also,
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: people said in that initial statement that Jay-Z said that
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: he was, he never really said it didn't happen, just
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: that this was like a travesty and this is wrong
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: and all this other stuff. So that's a little update
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: on that. All right, you guys, as I said, great interview.
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: And here we go. Go to heathermcdoll.net for Patreon and
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: everything else. And now for the juicy interview. Hello, and
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited for my interview guest.
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: She has written a real juicy book right here.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: And.
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: It's my favorite subject, which is sugar babies, sex work,
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: high class situations, dating, living.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: In this crazy world. And here she is, Brooke Urich. Welcome.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: This book is excellent. Thank you. It's really juicy, really good.
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge is the name of the book.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, girl.
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  Speaker 5: So we've talked a little bit before booking this interview.
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  Speaker 5: And why don't you give a little background of how
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: you came about writing the book, and then we'll get
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: into some of the subjects that you cover.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me, Heather. I'm really happy that
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: you responded to me because I love the show.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: And this really is a juicy scoop. So I think
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: your audience is going to like it. So I worked
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: behind the scenes at Seeking Arrangement. which is a popular,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: notorious sugar daddy website. And I started there as a
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: sugar baby. I actually got the job because I was
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: cast in one of their reality shows. It was not
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: a reality show. And the casting was basically me being
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: told to lie on camera. And so I ended up
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: meeting the people who work for the company and later
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: on ended up working there while also trying my own
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  Speaker 3: luck as a sugar baby. And I was very young.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: This was from the time I was 21 to the
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  Speaker 3: time I was 26. And so what years is that? approximately?
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  Speaker 3: Started in 2013. So the book actually takes place from
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  Speaker 3: 2013 through 2018. And that's the way I've written the
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: parts is they take place over like different years. And
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: I wrote it in first person present tense. So you
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: can see my evolution over that time. because I really
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: did have my own coming of age and started to
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  Speaker 3: realize the patterns that were yucky. And at first, when
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: you're young, you think, what's the big deal? And I
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: feel like it's always... What's the big deal?
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: You mean being like a sugar baby or having transactional
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: relationships with men?
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And I live in Las Vegas, so it really
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: wasn't far off from the lifestyle I was kind of
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: already living as a 21-year-old girl in Las Vegas, going
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: out to clubs and partying with rich guys. So when
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: you read it, you can see how... the changes are incremental.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Like this doesn't seem like such a big deal. And
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: then this isn't so far from that. And then you
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: just kind of go down this rabbit hole. And then
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: on the other end, you don't even recognize yourself. And
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I was paid for sex a couple times, I realized
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: that wasn't for me, I didn't like that straight up
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: transaction of it. And I was looking for a rich boyfriend.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: And I thought that that's what you would find on
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: the website. But I was sorely mistaken. These websites are
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: not places where good Prince Charmings come to sweep you
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: off your feet. They're places where predators hide in plain
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: sight and use the marketing tactics of the website as
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: an agency to recruit and convince and coerce young people
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: into lives of sex work. And it's scary. It's actually terrifying.
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: So that was an amazing introduction.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: There's no way anyone's going to turn off this interview now.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: But of course, I want to go back and ask
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: lots of questions. With the website Seeking Arrangements, I had
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: Rachel Uchitel on. We've since become friends. And her story
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: that I recall when she was on was someone discovered
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: her on the website and wrote like an article about it.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And she made.
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: Lemonade out of lemons and they hired her to be
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: almost like a spokesperson. And when she was doing that,
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: you know, her in presenting it was, yeah, this is
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: a dating site for women who want a man of
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: a certain level and is putting it out there on
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: the table. Like, if you want to date, this is
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: what I expect. And there was like a thing of like,
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: you know, this girl's wish list. So you know that
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: these are the Prada sunglasses that she would like if
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: you'd like to, you know, a lot of men really
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: get off and, you know, the way it's presented, these
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: rich guys get off and they love to buy gifts and,
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: you know, a $ 500 pair of sunglasses, why not get
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: the ones you want? You don't want them just going
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: buying ones that don't fit your face. So like that
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: type of thing, that relationship with her in that business
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: is Ended, and I'm not getting into why it ended
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: because I don't really remember the details and I don't
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: want to get into like a legal thing, but it ended.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: And I actually had the owner also on Juicy Scoop
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: promoting the website and what it was. And he also
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: at the time had a very young girlfriend. And I
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: was like, oh, wow. That's interesting. And do you think
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: you'll get married? And how does her family feel about it?
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: So with that all being said, yeah, I feel like
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: I have kind of been following the world of sugar babies.
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: I did a lot of episodes on it when it
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: kind of exploded, when there were billboards that probably around 2017, 18,
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: like off of Sunset Boulevard and things like that. And
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: I talked to people that called in and wrote me.
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: And I remember calling a couple of people myself, just
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: hearing their stories. And It's interesting because we're going to
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: get into that too, but their stories were similar to
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: what you and I discussed, which we'll share on the show,
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: that they were not that.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: A lot of them would.
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: Meet these guys on a date, have sex with them,
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: thinking now it'll turn into a relationship in which I'll
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: get my $ 10, 000 a month and see them twice and
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: go on.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: A shopping spree.
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: And they either never got paid at all for the
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: initial time because it wasn't a boyfriend-girlfriend yet, right?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: It was like an audition.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: And then they'd never hear from them again. So essentially,
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: the man got sex for free.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Yes. And when you think about that Prince Charming fantasy, right,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: it's a bit of a fallacy because... It's a pretty
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: woman fantasy, right? It's too good to be true for
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: a reason because it's not true. Like, I mean, just
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: let's logically think about it for two seconds. Why would
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: a super rich, generous man need a website to find
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: someone to spoil? It just doesn't make any sense. Like
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: when you think about the conundrum we're in with dating
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: right now, it's that the high value men have so
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: many options and they can easily get sex without a website.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: So why would a high value man need some sort
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: of agency to get girls. That is the first thing
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: that just isn't true. And then the other part of
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: it is the law of supply and demand dictates there
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: are not enough rich men to go around. So if
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: you simply think that every single girl who joins the
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: site is going to find some rich man, where are they?
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: They don't exist, right? So the majority of the men
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: use the website and they Pick up where Seeking's marketing
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: leaves off, right? And they say, oh, yes, I'm this
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: rich guy. And I'm going to take you to Aruba,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: which is something I write about in my book. My
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: first experience on the website, I was coerced and tricked
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: into sex.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: know about the drawer. The drawer. Just the one square
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: before bed. Or two, you know. Nobody's watching. You deserve
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: a treat. With eight flavors to choose from, you can
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: choose the flavor you favor with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: have faced tremendous setbacks. and yet somehow have found a
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I'm heading to the Emmys and I have police complaints
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: filed against me.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: what would you do if it was given back?
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: He said, I have a work debt.
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: I need a home debt.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: What happens next? When I came in, he started crying.
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: happens next.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: I decided to risk it all.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Listen, Dar, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: So why don't we hear about your first experience?
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: Okay, well, let's go back a little bit on your
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: life because it's a pretty, you know, juicy life to start.
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: So in the book, you do share some of your
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: teenage sexual experiences, which, you know, aren't unheard of, but
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: definitely not, didn't come out of committed love relationships. It
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: seems like you were sort of seeking something as a teenager.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And I want to.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: Ask you a little about that because you are bona
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: fide across all Kate, very attractive.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: But you are.
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: I mean, did you not like when you when you
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: were like, did you not feel a pretty privilege? Like
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: what or was it the pretty privilege of being pretty
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: and getting attention that made you be a little bit
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: promiscuous at a young age?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Like, what is it? Because I mean, it's like it's.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: A good point. I certainly had a glow up. I
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: don't think when I write about an experience I had
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: when I was 14, when I was preyed upon through
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: AOL Instant Messenger. And the man lured me to a
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: motel room to have sex with me. And he was
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: much older.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: He was in his 20s, right?
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was 26 and I was 14. And in
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: my mind, I thought like this older guy likes me.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: I was like, wow, like he must think I'm really pretty.
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: And....
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I wasn't super confident back then. I don't think I
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: was super attractive as a young kid. I mean, maybe
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: I was, but I didn't feel that way necessarily. So
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: to have a guy tell me I'm so sexy and beautiful,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: we know now exactly what he was doing. He was
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: coercing me and luring me. With false promises.
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: You know what's really interesting is you may have never
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: seen this movie because you're younger, but it's a movie
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: called Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh. I love Fast Times.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: So do you remember this part? So Jennifer Jason Leigh
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: is working at the pizza place. And Phoebe Cates– and
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: this book was written by a guy who– these were
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: his high school stories experiences in a mall in like
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: Riverside or something.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know where it was. In the mid to
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: late 70s.
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: And– So she's like, you got to have, you know,
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: you got to diverge and know yourself.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: This guy is hot. He works at the pizza place.
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: That guy was about 26, drove a car, and I
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: think he said he was 26. She lied and said
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: she was 17 or something. He picked her up, took
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: her to a baseball field where no one was, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: then she lost it to him and she never heard
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: from him again.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: And so that was.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Pre-internet.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: All the internet has done is made this behavior that
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: always existed– Much easier.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: And at a much greater scale. It's funny you mention that.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I have not thought about that scene in so long,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: but yes, I remember it perfectly.
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: It's literally your story, but without the internet, it was just,
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: you would have met him working at an ice cream store,
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: you know?
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And he would have known just what to say
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: to me. And I mean, that's what, Men on any
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: dating site or in the world like I mean, yes,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: they do this. But the problem with this particular website
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: is that it preys on vulnerable populations and it sets
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: them up to fail. And then the shame and secrecy
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: of sex work and not wanting to share their experience
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: because they're ashamed of what happened to them because they're
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: ashamed of getting conned. Because they're scared that they were
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: soliciting and they were asking for it. So they don't
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: come forward. So I would guess there's thousands, hundreds of thousands,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: millions maybe of victims out there. Because like when you
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: think about it, one predator... can hit dozens, hundreds, thousands
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: of girls. The site's been around for almost two decades.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: So the good ones, if there are any good ones,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: they get off the site.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: So do you think because.
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: Your first few times of having sex were young and
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: they were not these long committed, I'm going to marry you,
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: let's just have sex now that we're 15 or whatever
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: kind of relationships, Do you think then your perspective along
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: with media and everything else was skewed as sex is casual.
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: It's not really a big deal. It's not so what
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: that I had sex with this person. Doesn't mean that
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: he used me. Doesn't mean that I'm a slut. Like,
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: what was your perspective?
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I was, I guess, kind of tricked into thinking that
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: sex could be casual as a woman. And I don't
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: believe that anymore. Like, I don't think women can have
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: casual sex because of the hormones that we excrete. Like
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: when we're having it, it's the bonding hormone, whereas men
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: don't release that. They release testosterone. So it's really easy
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: for them to sleep around and not think much of it.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: But for women, that's not true. And when I was young,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: I was kind of force-fed birth control because at even
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: the slightest hint of thinking about having sex, I was
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: given a Depravera shot.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Your mom took you?
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Yes, my mom took me to... And did she have
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: a talk with you?
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: Was she like, I don't know if you're thinking of
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: having sex or not, but let's get you on the pill? Like,
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: what was the discussion about sex before marriage or whatever
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: in your home?
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: She thought that I was going to do what I
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: was going to do anyway and wanted to embolden me
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: to make my own decisions. And... Good on her because
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: she was doing what she thought was right. And I
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: think at the time that was kind of the thought
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: is that, well, you know, their kids will be kids.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: They're going to do what they're going to do. So
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: you might as well have them be safe. And I mean,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: the real truth that I actually didn't mention in the book,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: but it's sort of an extension of that experience when
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: I was 14. So after that, he had sex with me.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: The AOL guy.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, the guy from AOL. He told me to go
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: get the morning after pill. And so I did.
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: Because you didn't use any protection at that point.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: And so I did. And I didn't really, like, I
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: detail kind of my mindset at that time, how I
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: didn't really know what was going on. I was like,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: I knew like a little bit, but I didn't know
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: what the morning after pill was. Like, I really didn't know.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: And so I went to Planned Parenthood. I think the
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: next day I got the morning after pill and they
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: gave me birth control. So a spiral of birth control.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: And I had it in my drawer and my mom
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: found it. And she was like, what is this? Like,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: I told you that if you ever wanted to have sex,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: come to me and we'll go get birth control together.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: And so I was like, oh, like, you know, I
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: don't know. I just made up some lie or whatever.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: And at the time I hadn't had sex very many times.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I probably had sex like three or four times. And
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: I started taking the birth control pill and just thought
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: that that's what you do if you want to have sex.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't until I was probably like 28 that
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I realized that birth control made me unstable and made
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: me like seek out sex. like made me like very
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: horny and like willing to have sex with basically whoever
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: because your hormones are all out of whack. And I'm
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: not saying this is true for everyone. I'm just talking
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: about what happened to me. But it took me a
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: long time to understand that because I didn't have a
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: chance to get off of it because it's kind of
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: shoved down your throat at the doctor. They're like, oh, well,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: you're having sex. You got to get on birth control.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: And I just don't think that's right to do. I mean,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: in general, I don't think it's right to shove pills
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: down people's throats when you could treat the symptom, um,
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: But to go back to kind of what you're saying
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: about my mindset at the time, I was very struck
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: with the like slutty characters on TV, like One Tree Hill.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: There's that girl named Brooke.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I never watched One Tree Hill. So tell me about Brooke.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: The other Brooke.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: The other Brooke.
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Your Brooke and the character's name was Brooke.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: So of course I was like, oh, like her name's
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Brooke too. Yeah. And she's like a white girl with
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: brown hair. I was like, oh, cool. And it's Sophia something.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: She's like a fantastic actor. So I love her.
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: But she is like this kind of like floozy kind
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: of character who's always getting lots of attention from men.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: And she like kind of experiments with drugs. She's kind
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: of like the bad girl. But she gets all of
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: this attention and has like storylines that revolve around her.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: And back then when I was watching it, I was like, oh,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: like this is a character I can play.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: And this is when you're like 14, 15.
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: I was so young.
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: And then I actually rewatched the show recently, and I
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: was just like, oh, my God, I can't believe they
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: were showing this to people.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: And I'm curious, and I don't know, what I realized
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: in just a few years is how many of these
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: things that did influence my mindset about romance.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Life, all that, are all male writers, right?
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: They're all male.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: Like, you know, even joking about bad, what I call
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: dry bar 2000 romantic comedies, meaning they play them at
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: the dry bar. are like almost all of them are
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: written by guys. You know, the 27 dresses, all these
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: kind of things. I was like, what do you know?
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: You know, a bunch of baseball cap wearing, you know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: writers in a room drinking coffee wrote this movie about
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: women and love and, you know, and if they're, you know, working,
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: if they are successful and they can't find a man
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: and they're tripping and they're falling over themselves. And once,
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: you know, that whole cliche. But I want to go
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: back to one thing, which is crazy. So I remember
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: watching some talk show before I was even probably a teenager.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: And it was this woman who said, I give my
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: daughter the birth control in a little cup with other vitamins.
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: And she doesn't know she's on it. And so this way,
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: if she does have sex, because the chances are, no
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: matter how much you beg your daughter to be open
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: with you, she might not.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: And she's protected.
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: And so she would take the little pop it out
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: of the spiral, put it in with whatever, vitamin C
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: and dah, dah, dah.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: And I remember thinking, oh, that's really genius. I remember
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: thinking that's kind of.
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: A genius move of a mom so that their daughter
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: doesn't get knocked up. Because also when I was growing up,
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: there were like these things called after school specials and stuff.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: And teen pregnancy was like, if you get pregnant, you
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: are thrown out on the street. And your parents hate
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: you and you are living in an apartment and then
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: your boyfriend and you will eventually hate each other. And
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: like it just was the worst stories. And parents would
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: tell their kids, if you get pregnant, you're on your own.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Then it's like then we saw.
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: Teen Mom where the 50-year-old mom totally embraced the grandchild
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: of the 16-year-old.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: And they were really fucked up too.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: But it was a different thing where it's not– people
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: weren't throwing away their daughter and grandchildren the way, even
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: if that was to happen to me, I don't know
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: that my parents would do that, but that was like
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: the fear. So it was a really, you really, really
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: didn't want to get pregnant when I was growing up.
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: And if you did, you know, you're going to do
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: something about it or give the baby up or just
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: be completely, have your life ruined. And so I kind
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: of thought, oh, that's sort of genius. But your reaction
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: is mostly when I've told people that they're like, that's
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: just horrible.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know.
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: Like, Is it? Like I kind of wonder if nowadays
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: with the rise of like Ozempic and stuff, would somebody
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: go and go into their daughter's room and poke her
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: in the middle of the night and have her not
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: know that she's on Ozempic if she's struggling with weight?
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: Like I don't know that parents wouldn't do something like that.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: Like I get it's a weird, weird thing, something I
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: would never do.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right. But like– The same way of your.
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: Mom being honest, I wonder how many other parents maybe
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: weren't honest about that because the fear was so strong
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: of like, yeah, it's weird. So then what happened after
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: high school? Did you go to college? Where was your
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: romantic life at that point?
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: After high school, I went to UNLV to college and
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: I ended up meeting a guy who made my fake
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: ID and And we got into a relationship and I
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: found out about a year into dating him that he
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: had another girlfriend and was cheating on me the whole time.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: So at like 1920, that really like warped my view
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: of relationships. And it kind of made me lean into
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: the sugar life. because I thought that if a guy
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: who said he loved me so much could do that
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: to me, then like maybe I wasn't ready for love
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: and maybe I just need to like find myself. And
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: then because of like birth control and the idea that like,
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: you know, you can just have fun and have casual sex.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: That's what I thought I would do. And it's not till,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: you know, looking back that you realize like how those
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: things really messed you up. And it did mess me up.
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: You talked about One Tree Hill, but I feel like
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: when Sex and the City started, we talked a little
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: bit about this.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: When Sex and the City started.
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: I was recently married, but these girls were basically just
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: about my age, a couple years older than my age,
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: the characters. And then, of course, Kim Cattrall was supposed
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: to be like 40, and the other girls were supposed
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: to be like 32, 33 when the show started. And,
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: of course, I love the show because it's so entertaining.
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: But I remember watching it. You know, I'm from L.A.
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: I have friends, and I was like, you know, that
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: were single and stuff. And I remember the amount of
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: casual sex that they were all having.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I was like— This is not my friends.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: Like, who are the– does this exist in New York
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: but not in L.A.? Like, who is having this much sex? And,
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: you know, Miranda has sex with some guy after working
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: out at the gym. I'm like, who the fuck has
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: sex after the gym?
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: You know who does? Gay men.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: You know who's writing the show? Gay men.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: You know, so it was like there were some of
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: that where I think glamorized, like, what a fun time
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: to be single and dating and da-da-da-da-da. And I kind
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: of wonder if there was all the young girls that
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: were maybe watching that at like 14. I was watching
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: it at 30, but watching it at 14 who now
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: are in their mid-30s, like, did it affect their view
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: of dating and romance and taking more control, which could
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: be seen as you know, not falling for these creepy guys,
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: but also it could mean in your case, like, no,
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: I'm going to get something out of this.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: If I'm going to have sex with someone, like, I'm
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: not going to clean the.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: Guy's house, be a loving thing, and then still have
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: him cheat on me.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Like, fuck that.
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: If every guy is an asshole, I might as well
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: get a purse and Is that sort of the toad
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: that you had?
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is exactly the toad. And I started on Tinder.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: I was like on Tinder when it was in beta.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: I like found it in the game section of like
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: the app store. And I was like, what's this game?
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: I thought it was like Hot or Not. And then
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: I got on it. I was like, oh, it's like
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: an app where you can like date people. So I
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: started meeting guys on Tinder and would have casual sex
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: with them. And then they would ghost me. I wouldn't
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: get anything. So I was like, well, I'm already online dating.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: I'm already kind of living this lifestyle in Vegas. Like
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: it really didn't seem so far off to believe that.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: And actually, the reason that I ended up joining the
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: site initially was because my friend told me about it.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And she told me they were doing a reality show casting.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: So me at 21, I was like, oh, shoot, like
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: a reality show. Like, yes. So I signed up for
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: the website, emailed casting at seekingarrangement.com.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: So this isn't Tinder now. This is Seeking Arrangement.
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: Oh, sorry.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Yes. That's how I got on Seeking Arrangement. Oh, okay.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: So first you just did Tinder for a while. Yes.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: And I found that myself. I found it like in
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: the app store.
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: And then between Tinder and actually reaching out to the
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: Seeking Arrangements, Did you have any kind of sugar baby
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: light or whatever experience that you cultivated on your own?
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I was going to the club like on the weekends.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: I would have guys pay for my dinner, like nice
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: dinners and obviously the bottle service and whatever. So that
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: was happening. And then I saw my friends getting things
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: from paid for by guys online. But I didn't have
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: any of those experiences. I actually was scammed by a
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: sugar daddy type guy. Let's hear that story. So he
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: took me and my friend on this weekend. To where? Well,
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: we were in Las Vegas to Newport. So we just
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: like went for the weekend to Newport just like for
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: a couple nights.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: And did he like pay for your flight?
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 33:33
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Paid for everything. He was coming off a big win
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: in Vegas. So first we had- How old was this guy?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Was he cute?
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: What's the deal? I mean, he wasn't like that bad,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: but he definitely like wasn't cute. He's probably like 38,
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: 39 or something like that.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: And you guys were in your early 20s.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: I was 21. Okay. And why could you take a friend?
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: Did you think that you were going to have to
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: perform a threesome or did you just think you could
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: take a friend and figure it out?
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: She actually took me. Oh, OK. So we had gone
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: out to dinner with them one night. I guess she
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: knew one of his his friends or whatever. We went
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: to STK one night and they spent like a thousand
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: dollars probably on dinner. And then they gave us money
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: to go to the blackjack table. And so I ended
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: up going home after that. But she stayed with him.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: And the next day she calls me. She's like, hey,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: get down here. We're at Nordstrom. We're shopping like he's
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: asking about you. I was like, okay, cool. So I
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: go down to Nordstrom. He bought us like some swimsuits
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: and stuff. And he's like, do you want to go
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: to Newport for the weekend? And I was like, sure.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: So we went to– But I have to ask a question.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: When you're trying– so you get there. Because I always.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Wanted this too.
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: When you're in a situation with either Sugar Baby or
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: just a new boyfriend who's generous and he's like, let's
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: go shopping.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: This is where I think it would be hard for me.
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: How– where do you go from just picking up like
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: a $ 200 outfit to going– Oh, can I see the
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: Chanel quilted bag for 11 grand?
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Like, how do you waver that?
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: And did he say, I'm just buying you bikinis and
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: I want to see you come out and model them?
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Like, what was the story there?
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: So it's funny. I actually write about that push and
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: pull in my head of like, what do I get? Like,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: do I get too much? I don't want to squander
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: the opportunity. Right. But I also want to walk away
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: with something.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: So no, I didn't have to model the bikinis or
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: anything like that. He wasn't even with us when we
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: were shopping. We were like doing our own thing. And
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: then he came back. I guess from wherever he was
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: shopping for shoes or something like that.
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: And just went to the till and he just paid
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: for everything. Yeah. So it wasn't... I didn't feel like
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: I had to do anything with him. I mean, he
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: was like coming off a big win. Okay. So I
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: think it was just like pennies to him. He just
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: wasn't really... And they love to... That's the thing is
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: like guys love to flaunt it when they got it.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: Because they want you to know they got it like that.
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: Got it.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: And that's the only reason. So then he was like, oh,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: do you want to go to Newport? And I was like,
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: all right, sure. Like this might be a sugar daddy situation.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Like what are we going to do? So we ended
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: up going to Newport. It was kind of weird. I
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: didn't do anything with him. I don't think she did
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: anything with him like sexual or whatever.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: What was the room situation?
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: It was a double queen like. kind of near the
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: water and she slept in the bed with him. And
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: when I woke up, his arm was around her and
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: he was like snoring, but I don't think they did anything.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: I think he was, we were both all, we were
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: all really drunk. So I think we just kind of
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: like stumbled home or whatever. And then the next day
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: we left. And at the time he had told me
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: that he was a bookie. So he needed people to
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: place bets for him. in Las Vegas. And I was like, oh, shoot.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: I was like, I'm 21. I could do that. Obviously,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: I didn't really think it was illegal at the time,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: which I obviously know it is. But I was like, okay, sure. Yeah,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I'll do that for you. So the next week, he
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: calls me up. And well, there was another situation where
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: he had come out, I think promptly after the Newport trip.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: He came back out to Vegas and stayed at the Cosmopolitan.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: And we ended up getting him kicked out of his suite. Why?
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: How?
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Because And this isn't the case anymore. I think because
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: of us, they probably changed this. But there's this suite
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: on the 14th floor. It's like a wraparound suite. And
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: the railing of the balcony is kind of flush with
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: the rooftop of Marquis Day Club or nightclub or whatever.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: And one of the guys that was staying there was like, hey, look,
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: we can go on the roof. Like, do you guys
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: want to go on the roof? And the guy who
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: who's the scammer guy was like, no, no, don't go
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: out there. We're going to get in trouble. And so
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: then like after a few shots, we like went out
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: on the roof of Marquis and we're like we like
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: took a picture out there. And then when we came back,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: there was like a knock at the door and it
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: was security. And they were like, You got to go
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: like kick an ass out because we had obviously like
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: gone on. We're not supposed to go on the freaking roof.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: And they kicked him out like back up. They kicked
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: him out of his suite. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: was like a comp because like that's when you spend
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: a lot of money because he knows you get like
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: a free room or whatever. So, yeah, basically they were like,
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: you're out of here. And so. He was obviously very
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: perturbed about that. So after that happened, I think it
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: was like a few days later, I felt bad about
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: that happening, kind of guilty. And he called me up
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: and he's like, hey, I've got this bet for you
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: to place. You got to make it fast, though, because
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: the game is about to start and like you got
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: to go down there and do it. And I was like,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: I don't have any money for that. He's like, no,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: I'll pay you back. I'll pay you back. Just like
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: do whatever you can to get the ticket. Like, I
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: promise I'll pay you back. So what did you have
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: to spend? It was five hundred dollars. And it was
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: literally I had like five hundred and twelve dollars in
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: my checking account. I was like, all right, like he's
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: going to pay me back like big risk, big reward.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, if it wins, I win six
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: thousand and then maybe I'll have to split it with
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: him or something like that. But I was like, shoot,
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: like I could come up and the ticket was not
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: a winner. He ghosted me and I was out $ 500.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: And so I was destitute, right? In need of money.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: And I was still trying to like recoup my funds.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: And I paid for my own college. Like I was
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: like working at the time. I was actually working for
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: an adult novelty wholesaler, which I talk about in the book,
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: which kind of like got me into the sex industry
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: without really being in the sex industry because I was
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: selling like these novelties. I was working at like a
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: warehouse basically for a manufacturer.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: You're selling like what? Like dildos and stuff?
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: It was a male chastity device. What is that? Exactly.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: It's like a fetish, like a tease play device.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: For straight men or gay men?
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: For both. I mean, for, I guess, people with a penis.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: And it's like, it's a medical grade polycarbonate device that
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: goes over the shaft. And there's a ring that goes
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: behind the testicles. And you might have seen them like
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: in novelty shops and stuff. And it traps the balls
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: between the ring and the cage. Oh, God. And there's
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: a lock on the top. Listen. All that effort.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'd rather just, like, get it one and
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: done and go to bed. Like, this is a lot.
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: Anyway, go on.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I don't want to kink shame, but
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I worked there for three years. I don't want to either.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: It's just not my thing. It's just a lot of effort.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: And the people who are very interested in that have
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: weird proclivities and whatever. Anyway, so I ended up working
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: there because– My mom is a graphic designer, and she
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: actually designs packaging for novelties. It's kind of her niche
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: that she developed after this job. Anyway, it was all
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: very weird. But it was a family-run company. It really
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: wasn't weird when I was there. It was only weird
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: when I was answering the phones and talking to people
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: with their wiener in their hand or whatever. Anyway, so
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: I was working there at the time. I write about
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: it a little bit.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: Didn't have a lot of money and was broke after
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: that guy scammed me. And then my friend told me
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: about this little website where you can get guys to
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: give you money. And I was like, oh, really? I
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: was like, well, that's not so far off from what
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: I'm already experiencing, right? These guys are signing away $ 5, 000
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: at the club for a couple bottles. Like, what's so
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: far-fetched about me thinking that they would just give me
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: some of that money? Or sometimes the guys will, like,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: give us money to play at the tables. So it really, like,
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: wasn't that far off.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: And then the reality show idea, that sends the deal
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, shoot. And now explain that.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: So they.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Send out email. This is back in 2013. Okay. So
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: they would send out emails to the girls on the site,
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: the sugar baby accounts that said, hey, we're doing a
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: reality show casting. Let me know if you want to
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: be on the reality show. So of course I'm like, yes,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: like I want to be on the reality show. You know,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: like I don't want to get a job. I want
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: to go be a reality star. So I know.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: And so I emailed them and I was like, hey,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: I really want to do this. And like 20 minutes later,
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: the guy calls me. He's like, hey, you're perfect for
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: this opportunity. Like all you need to do is like
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: come down to the palms and like this and that.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: And I write about exactly what happened. But basically it
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: was a one-off show. And like I told him, I
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: was like, I don't have any experience on the site.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: Like I literally just signed up. I've never had a
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: sugar daddy. Like I don't know. He's like, oh, that's fine.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Don't worry about it. And I'm like, okay. So I
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: go down there and it was a complete farce. Like
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: I was so terrible.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: And this is like what year round?
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: 2013.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Okay. So the PR manager actually cast a sugar daddy
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: as well to be in the piece, but the sugar
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: daddy didn't show up. So the PR manager assumed the
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: role of sugar daddy himself and went on camera for
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: this interview. It was like, what I remember is it
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: being for the Travel Channel and it was about the
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: most wildest parts of Vegas or something.
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like gossipy news. Back then it was
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: really popular.
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: And I know the interview was so terrible because I
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: was so nervous. And like this guy, like I didn't
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: even know him and he's like supposed to be my
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: sugar daddy. Like it was so weird.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: But before they would even cast me, it was a
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: paid opportunity. Right. So they paid me $ 250 to appear,
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: but they had me sign a contract that said I
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: wouldn't tell production that I was paid. Because in most cases,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: like journalistic integrity dictates that you can't have paid case studies.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Like it's different if it's an actor or an actress.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: But if it's a case study that is saying what
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: they do or talking about their lives, then that person
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: isn't supposed to be paid because like there's– like an
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: unspoken agreement that like you're doing this because you want
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: to share your story, not because you're being paid to
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: share your story. Got it. So most journalists won't even
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: work with you if you're being paid. But I had
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: to sign a contract that said I wasn't being paid.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: But I, of course, was. And I also had to
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: sign the contract said that I wouldn't say I've been
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: paid for sex, which at the time I was like, what?
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: I was like, I wouldn't do that, you know. But
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: then when I actually got on the site, I realized
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: that that's what was happening is people are trying to
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: pay for sex. But they tout it as, oh, no, no,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: it's not that. It's just rich guys. It's just this.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: So your mindset kind of is like, oh, but they're
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: saying it's not that. So I believe what they're saying.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: And it's on TV. It's in the New York Post.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: So if it was illegal, if it was really sex work,
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: if it was really prostitution, then. why would it be
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: on TV? Why wouldn't it be shut down if it
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: was really illegal? And so that's kind of the mindset
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: that kind of tricks you into thinking that it's not
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: sex work, which is what it is. So when you
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: get on the site, there's a flood of messages in
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: my inbox, 500 no condom. Like that's the norm of
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: what- That's what they're offering you.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: That's the messages that I would get from sugar daddies.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Not like, do you like to go sailing? Absolutely not, no. It's,
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that there isn't like maybe a small
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: piece of the pie that's guys who really just want
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: to spoil you and really just, but in that case, like,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: why would they need a website to do that? Like,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: why wouldn't they just like be a normal guy and
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: just like be nice and like go out and meet girls? Like,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: you don't need a website where there's an explicit exchange
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: of money for something. in order to get those girls.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense and that's really not what
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: happens on the website. The problem with the website is
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: that there's two parties who Neither one of them think
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: it's sex work. The girls on the site are willing
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: to be paid for sex, of course, but they're not
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: sex workers. And the men on the site.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: They want they're giving you the girlfriend experience.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: That's what it's called.
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Is like an escorting term is the girlfriend experience, which
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: is where the girl like actually pretends that she likes
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: you and like goes out on dates and stuff. And
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's sometimes that. But I would say.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Trips and shopping.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: And I mean, maybe it is sometimes that. But most
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: of the time, in my experience, it's men who are
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: lying about what they're going to offer you, trying to
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: get sex for free or just straight up paying for sex.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: But neither party in it see it as sex work.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: So it leaves both parties in. to be very vulnerable
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: and be able to get scammed in one way or
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: another because no one's being honest about what's going on
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: and the marketing and the fact that the website still
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: exists and is still around despite like actually legal changes
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: that happen.
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: So tell me about your first experience and what you
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: were hoping for when you decided to like actually have
• 45:40
  Speaker 5: a conversation with this person did you talk on the
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: phone before you met like walk me through it.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: So the first guy i met on the site was
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: named john fitting of course so john said he was
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: in the movie business and we i think we just texted.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Beforehand you see a photo of him first.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: He sent me a photo but his face wasn't in
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: the photo what's the photo of then I mean, his body,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: I guess. I don't even know if it was of
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: him after meeting him. But that's what most people on
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: the website did back then is like they didn't have
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: real pictures of themselves.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: And how old did he say he was?
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: He said he was like 45 or something like that.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: And I was 21. And so I went to the
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Hard Rock Hotel, which is now the Virgin and to
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: the Circle Bar and met up with him. And got
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: very drunk. Of course, I was so nervous. And he's just,
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: you know, pouring me more and more wine. And so
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: I went back to his room with him. So you're
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: chatting for like a couple hours at the bar? Yeah,
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: maybe like an hour. And then he kept complaining that
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: it was too loud that he couldn't hear me. And
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: so he wanted to go up to the room so
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: we could talk better.
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: And I was like, okay. And then he like poured
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: me a drink.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: In the room.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: In the room. Yeah. And like, I mean, I don't
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: know for sure if like I was drugged. But what
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: I remember after that is being like very disoriented. And
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: like maybe I was just super drunk. But I mean,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: he did like pour me a drink or whatever, like
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: with his back turned to me in the room. So
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: I don't really know what happened. But he starts telling
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: me all these sweet nothings. He's like... you know, I
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: have this trip to Aruba planned and I want you
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: to come with me and be my sugar baby and
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: all of this and like being so sweet, telling me
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: how beautiful and wonderful I was. And I had literally
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: never had any experiences on the website. So me, I
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, shoot, like this is exactly what the
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: website promised is this guy that wants to take me
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: on a trip. Like, oh, lucky me. I just found
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: it right away. And then, of course, he sleeps with
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: me and then tells me to leave.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: And how was that? Two seconds? Yeah, I don't even remember.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: I really don't. So then he asked you to leave?
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: So then he asked me to leave. And I remember
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: I could barely walk. And there's like those chairs right
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: by the elevators. And I remember sitting in the chair
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: by the elevator for a little while and like just
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: kind of trying to catch my balance. And like this
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: lady like wakes me up and she's like, are you okay?
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. And so
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: then I like I guess went down to my car
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: and drove home. I woke up the next morning in
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: my bed, not really sure how I got there. And
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: then I like tried to call him and text him.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: He like never talked to me again. So that is
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: the typical experience on the website.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: So no money exchange.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not. No trip to Aruba. No trip to Aruba.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Ghosted me.
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: So then after that experience, did you try it one
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: more time or what happened?
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: So I got back on the site. I was like,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: oh God, I'm such an idiot for falling for it,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: you know? And so the next time I got on
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: the site, it was actually another guy named John, John
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: number two. And- He was very curmudgeonly. He was a
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: little bit older, probably like 55 or something like that.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: And he was just kind of crass and rude a
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: little bit. I was like, oh, it's obvious why he
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: needs to pay for girls because he's not a prize.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: And he ends up winning at the craps table. With you. Yeah,
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: with me. I'd never played craps before in my life,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: but of course, got very drunk. And I think that's
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: a common thread in all of these stories is like
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: someone gets very drunk. And that's because you're nervous, right?
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: So and I was 21. I like didn't really know
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: how to hold my alcohol. And we he ends up
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: winning probably like 10 grand or something like that. And
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: we went back up to his room. But I was
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: so drunk. I just passed out. And I remember waking
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: up just on top of the bed with my shoes.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: still on. Like nothing happened like with him or whatever.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Clothes are on.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Shoes are on. Like nothing.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: And where is he? Asleep too?
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: So he was actually– I woke up to him pushing
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: the room service cart in. He had just gotten some–
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: it was at the Wynn. So it's like a rather
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: large room. And he's like, oh, I got you some
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: room service and I left you something in your purse.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, okay. So I get up and
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: I like go look in my purse and there's like
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: a wad of cash in my purse. How much was it?
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: It was $ 1, 500.
• 49:47
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: And so I like kind of thumbed through it. I
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, shoot. I was like, that's more money
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I'd ever seen in my life in cash. And I
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, that's mine. I was like, oh, dang.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: So then I go on the couch and he's like
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: kind of like fondling me and feeling me.
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: Did you eat the pancake holding it up like Pretty Woman?
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: Remember when she did that? I always thought that was
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: such a weird scene that she didn't use a knife
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: and fork as if she's so like eating a pancake
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: like a muffin.
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: I was so nauseous from like, I mean, I have
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: actually found now that I think I'm allergic to alcohol.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: Like I cannot have large quantities of alcohol. I just,
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: I thought that like when you take a shot, you
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: just have to throw up. Like that's how everyone feels.
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: If I was you at this point, I would be like,
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: all right, I got you $ 1, 500. I didn't have to
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: do anything with this crotchety dude. I got a good breakfast. Yeah,
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: I'm a little hungover, but that's on me. I'd be like,
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: I'd probably be game to go do this again now,
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: even though I had the shitty first experience.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Is that what you were thinking?
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, but that's not where the experience ended. Okay, keep going.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: So he starts loving on me and stuff. You can't
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: just take the money and leave. No, yeah. I hadn't showered,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: and I feel like I smelled really bad. And so
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I was like, ooh, no, I don't like it. No,
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: I don't think so. And so I told him I
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: was on my period. And so that turned him off, right? Right.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: But then he's like, do you want to take a shower?
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: And I was like... With him. Yes. And so at
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: the time I was like, well, I mean, if he's
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: going to be filling my purse with money all the time,
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: I'm like, all I have to do is go take
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: a shower with him. Like, all right, might as well.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: I was like, OK, not really sure how I was
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: going to navigate that particular situation. Get in the shower
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: basically gave him like a quick. oral sex experience. Um,
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: cleanup was easy and then off he goes. And he
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: was like, Oh, you can order room service or whatever
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: you want. But I was like, so sick. I like vomited.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: And then I just left. And I was like, okay,
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: like one experience was really bad. And then one experience,
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: I guess it wasn't like great. Like I didn't love
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: this guy. Like I didn't want to hit him up again. Um,
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: but I ended up leaving my watch in the room.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Was it expensive?
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: Um, I mean, I don't really remember. I think it
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: was like, I think I had gotten for Christmas or something.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: So it wasn't like not a nice watch. And I, um,
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: called him, tried to maybe get the watch back and
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: he didn't answer me. He ghosted me. He never talked
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: to me again. So like, okay, whatever. So it's kind of.
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: Not crazy that you're doing this and you're still getting
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: horrible ghosting rejection that a normal person would be getting on,
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: on dating.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: Like it's even worse, you know? Okay, so then what happened? Well,
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, just to say that like a lot of
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: times it's not so cut and dry. It's more nuanced
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: than maybe you think it is. It's not like I said, hey,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: you're going to pay me $ 1, 500 and I'm going to
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: give you a BJ in the shower. Like no one
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: said anything like that. No one said anything at all.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: It was just like kind of implied that like, oh,
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: he gave me the money. And like if you want
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: more money, then you know you have to do this.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: So I think that's a lot of times what it is.
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: And I think people think it's like more cut and dry.
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: Like this is how much it costs. And I'm not
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: to say that that doesn't happen. Like a lot of
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: people are specific about like their pricing and stuff. But
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: I was never like that because I wasn't a sex worker.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was doing. And most of
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: the women on the site don't know what they're doing.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: They're super young. They don't consider themselves sex workers. So
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: it leaves them very vulnerable in these situations. So then
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: after this guy, you don't hear from him again. So
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: now there's been two experiences. Then what happens? Then I
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: ended up meeting a guy who was like a little
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: bit younger. And he was very cute and said he
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: was different than the other guys on the site. He's
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: called the trust fund guy in my book. And I
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: did end up meeting up with him a few times.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: But the first time I met up with him, he
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: bought me a bikini. Apparently, these guys always buy you
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: a bikini. And we went to Wet Republic. And then
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: he kind of ditched me to, like, go hang out with, like,
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: his other friends, basically.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: While you're at the Wet Republic?
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: We were all at Wet Republic. And he's like, OK,
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: we're going to go to dinner now. I was like, OK, cool.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: So we all go back to the win. And he's
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: how old? He's 29, he said.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, OK, brilliant.
• 53:49
  Speaker 6: So I was 21.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: He was 29. So I was like, oh, cool. Yeah.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: And he was really nice. And then when we get
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: back to the Wynn, he's like, OK, bye. I'll see
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: you later. We're going to go to dinner now. And
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: like I thought I was going to dinner with them.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: But like he was like ditching me at the Wynn
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: and telling me to like go off and with my
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: new bikini or whatever. I was like, OK, fine. So
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: then I end up meeting up with him again, like
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: a few months later. And he tries to sodomize me
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: without my consent. And we get into an argument and
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: I left. And then that was that situation. And I
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: write about all these in the book. And then the
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: last time I met up with him was actually at
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: his place in New York when I realized how rich
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: he was. So he was very rich. He was a
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: very rich trust fund guy. Like his family name is
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: on many buildings in New York. And so he's like
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: a legacy, you know? And I didn't know that at
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: the time. I didn't know who the heck he was,
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: but I was able to learn. And- He basically wants
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: sex to be easy. So he's got money. He pays
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: for it. There's a lot of different kind of categories
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: that these guys fall into. It's a very small percentage
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: are like these super rich guys who just really want
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: it to be easy and just pay for it. That's
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: like maybe 10% or maybe like 5%.
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: I feel like the image is a guy in his
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: mid-40s to like 55.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: This is the way I feel like it's portrayed.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: And he may or may not have a wife.
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: But he'd like a hot girlfriend to be discreet, not
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: expect to get married, not have his baby. But when
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: he has a business trip, when he has something, then
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: you could go with him and, you know, be there
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: for the sex. Shut up when he wants to watch
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: the game. And he's not going to care about your feelings.
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: You can't say you were mean to me. Like, and
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: that's where it's like transactional.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. And the sex workers and... Just to clarify,
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: like sugar babies are sex workers, like straight up. Like,
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: I don't think there's a difference. I think there is
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: a girlfriend experience kind of situation. But if you are
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: being paid a lot of money and you are being
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: elevated to that level, you are having sex. And that
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: is what you're being paid for. You're being paid to
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: keep quiet, to be complacent and sometimes be complicit when
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: you're reeling in other girls for sexual misconduct.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Like a threesome or whatever.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Or orgies or whatever. Like a lot of these people
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: are kind of like sexual deviants. And so they're interested
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: in like having orgies and like doing crazy stuff. And
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying everyone is like that. But yes, the
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: situation that you're talking about, it certainly does happen. I
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: would say maybe like 5%, 10% of the people on
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: the site are really just like kind of well-meaning, just
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: want it to be easy, want someone to go on
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: a trip with them or whatever. Of those type of people,
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: I would say 90% of them are married. And the
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: majority of the people, not just those type of good
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: people on the site, right? The majority of the people
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: are married. Like that's a common through line is that
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: these are married men who want to easily get sex
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: on the side and they don't want a professional. Because
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: they don't want the idea in their head that they're
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: paying someone for sex because that just hurts their ego.
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: So they want to find someone who's young, a young
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: college girl who doesn't have the perceived, you know, stank
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: of like a weathered sex worker. And so that's who
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: they find. And I mean, I'm not saying that there
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: are all bad experiences on the site, like a broken
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: clock is right twice a day, right? So there are
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: like a fraction, like maybe like 5% of people who
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: do really find that and have really good experiences. But
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: the majority of experiences are not that at all. And
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: when I first started on the website in 2013, it
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: was a very different place.
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: I know people are going to be mad at me
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: if we don't finish the trust fund.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: So I just want to finish that story before we forget. OK,
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: so you go to New York. You really do see
• 57:51
  Speaker 5: how rich he is. You are having sex with him.
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: And then that and then that unfortunate night happens where
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: he wanted to do something you didn't.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Or how did it end with him?
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: So I saw him three times. The first time was
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: the Wet Republic experience. The next time he came back
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: to Vegas, tried to sodomize me. And then the next
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: time I was actually in New York already. I was
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: there for my job and I changed my seeking arrangement
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: location to New York. to like see what kind of
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: guys I would meet. And he ends up hitting me
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: up again. And I go over to his place and
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: it was very late at night. And I think he
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: had just taken a Xanax or something and like nothing happened.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: Like he basically got me a car. When I got there,
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: I was there for an hour. We smoked some weed
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: and then like he got me a car and sent
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: me home. And like I thought we were going to
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: have sex because I was like, he's hot, he's rich,
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever. But that ended up not happening. And
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: then like I never talked to him again. Or maybe
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: I did talk to him here and there, but I
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: was like, no, like I don't think so. So, I mean,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: if you want, like, the details, you can read what's
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: in the book.
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: No, read the book.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, so I was just wondering what happened with that. Yeah, no,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: nothing really. So then after you– so you had a
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: few experiences.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: And then what happened?
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: So I ended up meeting a guy on the site
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: who lived in Miami and was kind of, like, no
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: prize or anything. But he was really spoiling me. He was,
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: like– he came out to Vegas. He bought me stuff
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: from Saks and– and he flew me out to Miami
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: a couple of times.
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: You know, I've had this guy on, um, and he
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: calls himself like the, uh, you know, the, I don't
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: like the name, but he calls himself the horror whisperer.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: I'm on TikTok.
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: And he was saying, I encourage my friends who are
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: dating rich guys to only get things from.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, what were the two stores?
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: I think Neiman's and one other store, you can return
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: the thing for cash. These other stores you can't. And
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: in choosing items for the sugar daddy to buy you,
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: Like really stick with like Chanel and like Rolex and
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: like Hermes because they actually go up in value where
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: a lot of like the Yves Saint Laurents and stuff
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: like that don't aren't worth that much as a. When
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: you with the spoiling guy, were you thinking about that?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: Were you just getting what looked cute?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: I was getting what he wanted me to get. Oh, OK.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: So tell me about that.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: And I mean, I think that kind of is the
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: situation a lot of times is the man decides what
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: you get.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: You get what you get and like it. So he
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: dresses you. He bought what he bought for me. OK,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: so you go to the store like I kind of
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: want to hear the shopping experience.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: OK, well, so here let me hear that. So first,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: before I even met him, I was at work that
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: day and he went shopping. And this is where you're.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Still working at the novelty adult place.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: OK, yes, this was the and he hated that. He
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, no, I don't want you in the
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: sex industry. Um, so I was like, well, if I'm
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: going to get out of it, then you're going to
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: have to pay me. And so, so before I'd even
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: met this man in person, he was shopping for me
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: at Saks and he bought me a dress and some shoes,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: some Jimmy shoes, a size too small. So I go
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: up to his room.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: The shoes were too small.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: The shoes were too small. We can't wear those. When
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: I get up to the room, I realize they're a
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: size too small and try to shove my wide foot
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: in them. And that doesn't work. So he's like, oh,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: don't worry. We'll go back to Saks tomorrow and we'll
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: exchange them. And I was like, OK, great. Like, we're
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: going to go shopping. So we go back to Saks
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: the next day.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 6: And.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: He picks out a Saint Laurent pump and I picked
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: out like a different, like the tribute sandal. And he's like,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: those are hooker shoes. And I was like, okay. So
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: then he picks out another one, equally hookerish if you
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: ask me. And he's like, no, I like these ones.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: You're going to get these ones. And I was like, okay.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: So like my, I have like really wide feet. Like
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: my toes are kind of all the same size, like
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: not shaped for European shoes at all. And so I
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: like shove my foot in there like Cinderella's ugly stepsister
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: and trot down the aisle for him. I'm like, do
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: you like them? And he's like, yeah, they're great. And
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: so I was like, OK, like, I guess this is
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: what I get.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: And do you think when you were doing this, did
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: you think anyone was looking, observing, knowing what the situation was?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, the salespeople were watching me like with this,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: you know, guy with a pot belly balding, like not cute,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: like playing on his phone and me like this little girl. Like,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, I the optics were very clear what was
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: going on. And so I call him the milk dud
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: in my book, but because his head looked like a
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: giant milk dud. And so sexy. Yeah. So I kind
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: of like write about like how my mindset was in
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: that situation where I was thinking that I was going
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: to receive these spoils. So I was complacent with his
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: bad actions. And even when I got the shoes, I
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: was like, do I even want these shoes or do
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: I just like want my friends to know I have them?
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: Do I even care? But then obviously I had the shoes.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: And then when I went out with my friends and
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: the shoes are like, oh, cute shoes. I'm like, oh,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: They really hurt.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: So it's weird. Like you think that.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: So then what else did you get? Did you get
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: anything else or just the shoes?
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: It was just, yeah, it was just the shoes. We
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: just returned the Jimmy Choos and got the St. Laurent pumps.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: And then when he flew me out to Miami the
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: next time, he like didn't really get me anything.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: So did you sleep with him that first time?
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I slept with him the first time. It was gross.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: And I kind of assumed that was the case because
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: he bought me this dress. And so I'm like in
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: the dress. And how much was the dress? I think
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: it was like 500 or something like that. He had
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: already bought it for me. He'd already picked it out
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: And did that look good on you?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I had a few extra pounds on me,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: so I was kind of like stuffed into it. But
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, I thought it was really cute. I think
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: I still have it somewhere. But I mean, it was
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: a really cute dress. And I wore it that night,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: and then I obviously went back up to his room
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: with him, and then I'm like in the dress, I'm like, well,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: I guess this is consent if I'm wearing the dress.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess I have to now, right? And so, yeah,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, we had very brief sex. And then the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: next couple weeks later, he flew me out to Miami.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: And I was under the impression like, oh, we're going
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: to go shopping. We're going to do this. We're going
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: to do that. And that was not the case at all.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: We went to the Gator Park and we did like
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: basic crap. Like it wasn't like I was I was
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: under the impression.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: You mean alligators?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: Oh. Like a wildlife park. We did like an airboat ride.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: Like it was. Now you really had to like hang out.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: So then I was like just kind of enjoying his
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: company or whatever. And so. And you have to have
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: sex there, too. Yeah, I think we did. I don't remember.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: It was like, I mean, it was all very quick. So.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: I don't exactly remember what happened that trip. But then
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: he– for my birthday, it was my 22nd birthday, he
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: flew me out to Miami again and we were going
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: to go to Key West.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, like it's my birthday. Like
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: he's really going to spoil me this time, you know.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: You're going to be like on a beautiful beach resort
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: at least. I was like, oh, he's probably going to
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: get me like a helicopter ride or like something cool,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: you know. And we drove in his truck to Key
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: West from Miami, like the drive, which is actually a
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: really beautiful drive across like the aisles.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: It's like the seven-mile highway or whatever.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: And so I was like, all right, fine. Like my
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: birthday is coming up. And are you having to like
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: talk to him the whole time or could you just
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: like look out the window? I mean, yes and no.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: He did.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, I remember he took me by the University of
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: Miami campus and he's like, oh, this is where I
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: used to go to school and that's where you'll get
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: your master's degree. And I was like, my master's degree.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't even want to be in school
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: right now. But his, his fantasy was that I would
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: be a college girl forever. And I would just stay this,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: this young college girl that just is. And I'm like, okay,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: well you have it twisted. Was he ever married or anything?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: He had not been married, he said, but he did
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: have a son like in Michigan or something like that.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: So he was like generous with you, but you really
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: don't know if he was a wealthy person.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 6: No.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: And I don't think he was. I think he like
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: had a few bucks to spend on me. But then
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: for my birthday, he's like, oh, we're going to rent
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: a boat. And so me. In Key West. Yeah, in
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: Key West. So I thought like we're going to rent
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: a speedboat.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Like Miami Vice.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: Sporty.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going to be on the bow
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: of something sporty. And he rented me the fishing boat
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: from hell. Uh-huh. It was... Not cute. It was a
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: freaking fishing boat. It smelled like tuna guts. Like there
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: was one little seat and didn't get any food. It
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: was like a terrible, like it was not what I
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: thought it was going to be at all. And then
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: when it finally came time to like give me my gift,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: I had asked for, I wanted a watch with a
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: big face. And the gift was a dick in the box. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Pretty much. Pretty much.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: And then I got- What was the gift? It was
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: like a Burberry watch. Okay. And I mean, it was
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: probably like 500 bucks or something. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay, cool.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: And I think he got me like another dress. It
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: was like a Roberto Covelli dress, but it didn't fit me.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: Like he like didn't understand my sizes or like thought
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: I had like giant breasts or something. Like I did
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: not fill out this dress. And so I was like, okay,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: like this is nice, but I just felt like he
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: spent more money on me in Las Vegas than he
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: did for my birthday. And so I was just like, oh,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: like I guess it's not really what I expected. I
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: was like, but fine. So at that point we had
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: negotiated that I would quit my job. And he would
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: give me money each month.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 5: How much?
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: He was going to give me $ 1, 500 a month. That's
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: not enough to quit your job, though. Well, it was
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: for my bills. And then he was going to, like...
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, the plan, he wanted me to move to
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: Miami eventually. So I think he was, like, kind of
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: giving me enough to, like, sustain me. Okay. And then
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: was trying to just, like, get me out there. Like,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: I guess as I would need things or whatever. And,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was back in 2013.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: And what were you thinking at that point? Were you thinking, really,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: this is an option?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: Or were you like.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: Were you like, oh, my God, Brooke, you do not
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: want to be hanging out with this guy for the
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: next five years.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Like, what the fuck are you doing?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 5: Like, when did you have like a come to Jesus
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 5: moment where you're like, what am I doing?
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: This isn't that fun. This isn't that great.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess not yet. Well, so he wanted
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: to take me on a trip around the world. He
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, well, you know, we could go on
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: a trip and we are different locations will like progress
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: our latitude and we'll go around the whole world. So
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: we're going to go on this like long month long vacation.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: So that was kind of like in my mind, I
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, shoot.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: But do you think like, because for me, I would
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: be all, yeah, excited about the trip, but then I'd
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: be like, But if you didn't, maybe you did like him,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 5: but I'm thinking you didn't. So I'm like, you do
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: have to talk to him, see him, be around him,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 5: see his toenails, like all of that for a year. Like,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 5: I don't think anything sounds worse, honestly.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: At the time, I didn't like him and I didn't
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: think that I like wanted to be with him. But
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: I think part of it too was like my mindset
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: was that like, I want to have these experiences. Okay.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: Like the experiences and the feeling that I had seen...
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: Because I'm in Las Vegas, right? So I had seen
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: other girls, like, getting these experiences. Got it. And I
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: was like, I'm cute enough to get that. Like, I
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: want that too. Oh, okay. And so... And social media
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: was kind of on the rise, right? Like, Instagram had
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: been around for, like, a few years. And, like, people
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: are posting all this crazy stuff on Instagram. I was like, oh, shoot. Like,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: I could do that. So I really wanted to take
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: the trip. Like, I had never been, like, kind of
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: on a big trip like that. And that was my goal.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: So I... ended up not selecting my final semester of
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: classes because he was going to take me on the trip.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: And so it ended up that I requested my allowance
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: from him a little bit too promptly. And he got
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: the feeling that I was using him. And so he
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: ghosted me. So that was after he was supposed to
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: like pay me, but I had already quit my job
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: and not picked my classes. So I was kind of
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: in a bind where I was like, well, financial aid
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: had passed. So I didn't have money for classes. I
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: It just so happened that when I met the people
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: that worked at Seeking Arrangement, they had offered me a job.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: How did you meet them then? So after the initial casting,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: I was then offered a modeling opportunity for some content
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: they were shooting for a new dating website. And if
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: you want to look at the most cringe photos in
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: the world, You can go find the photos for carrot dating,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: not the diamond kind, the carrot with green stems. There's
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: some very cringe photos out there. There's like a Wired
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: article that came out at the time for this app
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: they were launching.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: And what was that about?
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: It was about bribing someone for a date. So instead
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: of giving her money, you would give her a gift.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 6: Oh.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: I know. So all very weird, very salacious.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: And that no longer exists.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: I don't think so. I honestly have no idea. But
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: I went to this stock photography shoot and it was clean.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: There wasn't anything in particular, like it wasn't like I
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: didn't have to take my clothes off or anything like that.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: And at the time I was like broke. So it
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: was before that, the Milk Dead guy. It was before
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: any of that happened. It was like right after I
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: had joined the site. So I really had no experiences yet.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: But when I met the marketing manager at that shoot,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: She asked me what I did. She's like, do you
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: have a job? You're in school. And I told her
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: I was a journalism major and I was working at
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: this adult novelty company. So I was telling her my
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: little spiel that I gave you. And so I was
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: like just talking about, you know, sex very casually. And
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: she was like, you're really good at talking about sex.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: You should work for us. And I was like, oh,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: thank you. But like, I think I'm going to go
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: find a sugar daddy. And so I tried my luck
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: finding a sugar daddy. I found out it was not
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: at all what I thought it was going to be.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: And then I was really in a bind. And my
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: mom actually, I mean, she's like, well, didn't that lady
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: offer you a job? And I was like, yeah, she did.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I was like, but did your mom know that you
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: were doing the sugar baby thing?
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: Were your parents married? Like, how did she feel about that?
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: They're divorced and they got divorced when I was young.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: And She was always kind of of the mind that, like,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do whatever I'm going to do. And
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: if she were to tell me not to do that,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: it would only make me do it more. So she
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: would rather me be honest with her about what I
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: was doing than to be left out of the loop
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: because I think that she's going to tell me not
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: to do that. Okay. So, I mean... I think there
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: was like a certain element of permissiveness that kind of
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: led me to do this. And the fact that she
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: like wanted me to be open about sex and like
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: wanted me to like be on birth control. And those
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: are the lies that I think parents were told at
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: the time as well, that you want your children to
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: talk about sex. You want your children to be honest
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: with you about these things.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 6: But.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: Then there's like a double edged sword to it because
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: I was so easily talking about sex and I was
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: and then it was kind of like that turned me
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: into that person a little bit. I mean, working at
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: the novelty place obviously didn't help. But yeah, I ended
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: up meeting the founder and the marketing manager that day.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: And she offered me a job, but I was going
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: to go try my luck as a sugar baby. And
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: then when I was destitute at the bottom of my
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: bank account and hadn't picked my classes, had quit my job.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: And I thought that even without my degree, like I
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: didn't have I didn't hadn't walked yet. I had like
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: one semester of classes left. I was going to do
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: all my electives the last semester and just have kind
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: of like a fun semester. but I never picked my
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: classes because I thought I was going on a trip
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: around the world. So I never got my degree. Like
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: still to this day, I don't have a degree. I
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: did do all my core classes though. So I called
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: her and I was like, hey, are you still looking
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: for people? And so she ended up hiring me as
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: a PR coordinator, making $ 35, 000 a year, which was more
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: money than I'd ever seen. And I was like, oh shoot,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: I actually got my offer letter on the day I
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: was walking. So at UNLV, they let you apply for
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: graduation before you've actually finished your credits. Right. So I
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, perfect. I can walk for graduation. Everyone
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: will think I graduated. I'll get a picture of me
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: in the cap and gown. And then I'll just start
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: my job.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: And like, Trella.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: And so I did. So I was 22 when I
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: started the job. I just turned 22. It was after
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: that birthday.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Working for the seeking arrangement.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: Working for the company. Yeah. And I had no idea
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: about corporate life. I had been working for like a
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: family run warehouse adult novelty company. So like I didn't
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: know anything about like how corporate America really worked. And
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: I didn't have any experience in PR. I didn't even
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: know what PR really was. And I mean, if you
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: don't know what PR is, I know it's kind of
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: tossed around a lot. So basically, PR reps are liaisons
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: between companies and media. So as a PR representative, you're
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: trying to get different media, news outlets, podcasts, whoever it is,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: to cover your brand, essentially.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: And so what years did you work there?
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The very end of 2013. I actually started on
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: December 30th, 2013. And then I ended up getting laid
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: off along with like 12 other people at the beginning
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: of 2019, like January 2nd, 2019. So it was five years.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: But on paper, it's the years are a little bit different.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: So were you there when Rachel died?
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: Okay. So I was the spokesperson internally for the company.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: And then after we all got let go in at
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: the beginning, very beginning of 2019, I believe her contract
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: began in 2020 or 2021. And she was an external
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: spokesperson who was hired for the company to kind of
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: do the same thing that I had been doing, but
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: not as like an internal like PR employee. It was
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: more just like as a talking head kind of thing.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: And I mean, their relationship went very sour. And I
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: believe it's because after the Matt Gaetz scandal broke, their
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: PR strategy changed and they no longer wanted to use her.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: And what is the Matt Gaetz scandal?
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: So Matt Gaetz is a Republican congressman from Florida, or
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: he was a Republican congressman. I think he stepped down.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: I don't really know what his deal is. But if
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: you've heard about him in the news recently, Trump appointed
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: him to be the attorney general. And people didn't like that.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: So he stepped down as attorney general and Trump appointed
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: Pam Bondi, who ironically was lobbying for like anti-sex trafficking,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: which is very interesting. Anyway, so what happened in 2021
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: is news of this scandal broke where this man named
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: Joel Greenberg, who was like a tax collector in Florida,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: he was found to have been sex trafficking minors using Seeking.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: using Seeking Arrangement, using the website. And then allegedly Matt
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: Gaetz had sex with one of these minors. And I mean,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: to be clear, like, I don't know what happened with
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: Matt Gaetz. I don't know Matt Gaetz, never met him,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: don't know him. So what I can tell you about
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: that is there was an indictment against him for a
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: long time. They were building up this indictment. But it
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: ended up getting dropped. And people were kind of wondering
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: why this indictment got dropped. And I mean, I think
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: I know why it was dropped. So in 2022, I
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: was contacted by an attorney who was representing the minor
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: who had been trafficked on the website by Joel Greenberg.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: And Joel Greenberg is currently serving an 11-year sentence for
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: tax evasion and sex trafficking. So I'm pretty sure that
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: he really was on the site and he really was
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: doing this. But the attorney that contacted me in 2022
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: told me that he was suing Matt Gaetz and suing
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: Seeking Arrangement on the girl's behalf. So he had some
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: questions for me about the mechanics of the website and
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: just how things work. So I basically gave him the tea.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: Because at the time, I was also involved with other journalists.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: In 2021, when the scandal initially broke, the New York
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: Times reached out to me, and so did ABC 2020.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: They were both pursuing stories, and I gave them everything
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: I had. They were very clear that they were going
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: to do this story, exposing the website, showing that it
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: really is very easy for underage girls to get sex
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: trafficked on this website. And those stories never came out.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: After you did the entire interview.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: I did. I probably talked to the New York Times
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: journalist for like seven hours, ABC 20, respectively. They were
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: like separately working on the same story around the same time.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: ABC flew me out to New York, had a day
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: of production buzzing around me at the beginning of 2022.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: They were going to do a sizzle reel for like
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: a concept about the sugar world and like what it
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: really is. And Those stories never came out.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 5: And when you reached out and was like, hey, just
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 5: check it in. When is this going to air? What
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 5: response would you get?
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, we're working on it. We're working on it. But
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: now they don't talk to me anymore. They don't even
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: respond to me.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: So if you wrote them today, they would just get
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: right back.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: Well, the last time I talked to the 2020 guy,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: he was like, oh, I'm going to call you. And
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: then he never did. So, OK, whatever. But oh, back
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: to the Matt Gaetz thing. So then at the time,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: I was corresponding with that journalist. And he told me
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: that the reason the indictment was dropped was because the girl,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: who was a minor at the time, believes that the
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: relationship was consensual between her and Gates. So she's not
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: willing to testify. And so therefore, it's dropped. And I
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: think what kind of happens in these situations is when
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: you hear the term sex trafficking thrown around, you think that, oh,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: they're being forced. They're being put in cages and like immigrants,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: children being sold. And like, I'm not saying that doesn't
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: happen because I'm certain it does. But a lot of
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: times sex trafficking is more nuanced. So what it really is,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: is when one person, usually a man, someone like Joel Greenberg, right?
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: procures women off of the website.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: So he reached out to them, says, hey, you know,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: establishes a relationship with whatever. And then he transports that
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: woman to somewhere else to then have her paid for sex.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: And a lot of times the participants are willing because
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: they're being paid for sex. So sex trafficking isn't always
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: someone being lured and coerced and forced into sex. Right.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 5: Like in the back of a van, driving over state
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 5: lines and blindfold and thrown into a dirty hotel room.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: And yeah.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: And I'm sure that all does happen.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: That all does happen.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: But yeah, there's different levels or situations. The majority of
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: the time, the trafficker is someone you know. Sometimes it's
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: a family member. And a lot of times the people
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: who are willing participants, the young girls who are willing participants,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: who are willing to be paid for sex, they're the
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: ones who are then chosen to be then trafficked. And
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like incremental, right? Like it escalates from
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: there and then it's unspoken. Like, well, I did this
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: for you, so you do this for me. And the
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: people who are complacent are the ones who then get
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: more money, get more trips, get more this, get more that.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: So it puts you in a very bad situation if
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: you're one of these people who's being trafficked because now
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: you've done something illegal. So you're in a position where
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: you think that you're going to get arrested or you're
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: going to get solicitation charges if you don't drop the
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: case or... do whatever. So it's like they have you
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: in this bind when you're participating in sex work that
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: you are ashamed. You don't want to share it with anyone,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: but also you're scared because they threaten you with lawsuits
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: and they tell you, if you don't do what I
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: tell you to do, then we're going to file solicitation
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: charges against you. And I don't know if any of
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: that happened with this girl or anyone, but I just
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: know that that's the situation that they get put in
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: because anecdotally, I've heard it many times.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: Well, this was fascinating because You're, you know, you explain
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 5: it so well.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: The writing is great.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 5: Get this book. What did you see read over the holidays?
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 5: Can you tell everybody where they can find it?
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Is there... Like tell everybody where they can find it.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: You can find it where books are sold. It's on Amazon,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: Barnes & Noble. You can get the audio book pretty soon.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: I think it's coming out in like a couple of days.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: So by the time the podcast comes out. Did you
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: do it? I did.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: OK, great.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: I recorded it myself. I read it myself. And it
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: was very emotional reading it.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, good.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a quick read. I wrote a book
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: kind of for people who don't really like to read
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: very much. So it's like kind of going to hook
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: you in.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: And hopefully teach you some lessons along the way.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 5: Wink, wink, nudge, nudge by Brooke Urich. And thank you
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 5: for your complete and total honesty. I know I ask
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 5: a lot of like straightforward kind of weird questions because
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 5: it's like what I'm what the audience is thinking, too, since.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: I have never experienced it. That's why I was always
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: sort of fascinated with the rise of this type of thing.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: Interesting to see someone your age.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: How old are you now? I'm 33.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, see someone your age, 33, that went from meeting
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 5: the guy online at 15 to finding yourself in Vegas
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 5: with this thing that seems so cool and.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: Very transactional and let's just be honest.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 5: In this relationship with these guys to the real truth
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 5: of it. And now your perspective as, you know, a young,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: educated woman, you're, you know, really smart. And I'm really
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 5: glad that you shared it. And I'm also glad that
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: people know that these stories get reported on by the
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 5: biggest news media in the world. And then they get
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 5: squashed and silenced and thrown away. And you go, oh,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 5: I wonder why. Well, this person at the company that
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 5: you're talking about is associated with this person and this
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 5: person and this person.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: Story's not being run.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 5: So that's why I like what I do, though it's not.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 5: I have had my share of difficulty with people trying
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 5: to shut me down, too, for the last almost 10 years.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 5: And I'm glad I haven't. And I'm glad that I
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 5: get to meet people like you that, you know, so
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 5: smart and strong and really, really great interviews.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the candid questions, too.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: I'm sure like lots of people have questions. So reach
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: out to me. I'm definitely willing to answer that.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: And where can they find you on Instagram?
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: At Brooke Urich. I'm just starting out. My following is
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: small because I was waiting to to come forward on
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: Instagram until the book was out because I was scared
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: like something might happen. I might get silenced. So, yeah,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: please give me a follow. DM me if you have questions.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: And I'm willing to tell you literally whatever you want
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: to know, because I think this is a really important topic.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: And a lot of the book is kind of revealed
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: on Instagram. Like I created a visual companion to the book.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: So you don't necessarily need to read the book to
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: understand what's going on, just because I think it's really
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: important to tell people what the heck is going on.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: But we want you to buy the book.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: But also buy the book. All right.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:24:39
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