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Katie Woolf spoke with NT Shelter Executive Officer Peter McMillan · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Three point sixty with Katie Wolf thanks to Joyce Main
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  Speaker 1: Darwin Homes owned Stuart Highway, Berrima.
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  Speaker 2: Tell you what there has been a lot too sort
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  Speaker 2: of unpack you'd have to say, as estimates of SAT
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  Speaker 2: over the last last week and a half and public
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  Speaker 2: housing wait times for something that was on the agenda
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  Speaker 2: when the Housing Minister Kate Warden, the Urban Housing Minister
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  Speaker 2: Kate Warden was in the hot seat now joining us
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  Speaker 2: in the studio to talk a little bit more about
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  Speaker 2: housing and what seems like quite the shortage. Is the
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  Speaker 2: executive officer Peter McMillan from NT Shelter. Good morning to you, Peter,
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  Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. Great have you in the studio.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for having us in now.
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  Speaker 2: I imagine that you would have been watching estimates pretty
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  Speaker 2: closely when the Housing Minister was in there talking about
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  Speaker 2: the situation with those public housing weight times. How are
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  Speaker 2: we looking in the territory at the moment.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I haven't got any good use, Katie for you
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  Speaker 1: and your listeners in this space. I'm afraid the situation
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  Speaker 1: with public housing waitlist it's really sparring out of control.
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  Speaker 1: We've now got five thousand families across the Northern Territory
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  Speaker 1: that are waiting their chance to access public housing in
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  Speaker 1: our urban centers and that's growned by twenty two percent
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  Speaker 1: over the last two years alone. So wow, it's really
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  Speaker 1: a serious and significant problem we're dealing with at the minute.
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  Speaker 2: So we're certainly not making inroads. In fact, by the
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  Speaker 2: look of things, we're quite the opposite.
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  Speaker 1: In simple terms, Katie, what's happening is that there's no
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  Speaker 1: new money for building houses. We've spent some money over
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  Speaker 1: the last couple of years with seeing government spend money
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  Speaker 1: on repairs and maintenance a couple of houses here and there.
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  Speaker 1: But when you've got stock that's so old eighty eight
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  Speaker 1: percent of their stock is thirty years or older, the
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  Speaker 1: challenge in is, well, how do you actually get ahead
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  Speaker 1: of the game when you're knocking houses down or when
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  Speaker 1: you're selling them off. And I was just going to say,
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  Speaker 1: in terms of things like John Stoke Square, I mean
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  Speaker 1: the Minister referred in estimates yesterday to so many million
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  Speaker 1: dollars going to that, but that's really just replacing housing
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  Speaker 1: that was already there.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to ask, you know, we have
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  Speaker 2: seen some of those developments get underway or some of
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  Speaker 2: those some of those places out in Palmerston is one
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  Speaker 2: of the ones that had been mentioned to us on
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  Speaker 2: a few occasions. Then taking that stock off the you know,
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  Speaker 2: out out of the market, or not even the market,
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  Speaker 2: but out of the you know, out of the public
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  Speaker 2: housing stock, and it then means that, well, where do
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  Speaker 2: those people go? Do they then sort of jump the
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  Speaker 2: weight list in terms of finding another place I have.
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  Speaker 1: In that case, I've actually transferred people into other housing,
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  Speaker 1: mainly in the northern suburbs. What it means, of course,
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  Speaker 1: is those people that were next in line for housing
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  Speaker 1: just have to wait that extra bit longer. And when
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  Speaker 1: you're already waiting up to eight years for a house,
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  Speaker 1: it must be very dispiriting for people out there listening
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  Speaker 1: and thinking, well, you know what, I'm struggling. I'm on
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  Speaker 1: the public housing wait list, or maybe I should be
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  Speaker 1: on the public kalsing wait list. Cost My rents just
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  Speaker 1: gone up through the roof. But if it's going to
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  Speaker 1: take me eight years to get access to a home,
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  Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? Am I gonna am I
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  Speaker 1: gonna wait? Am I going to sleep with it at
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  Speaker 1: a friend's place? Am I going to get a spot
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  Speaker 1: in a caravan part if I can or am I
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  Speaker 1: going to leave the territory. And at the moment when
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  Speaker 1: we're really trying to grow the population of the territory,
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  Speaker 1: we're trying to get economic growth and jobs. Want to
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  Speaker 1: be the comeback capital. But if we can't house our
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  Speaker 1: existing population, how on earth are we're going to house
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  Speaker 1: a future population?
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  Speaker 2: And you know we're not. I guess you know sometimes
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  Speaker 2: people when they think about public housing and who fills
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  Speaker 2: those public housing homes, you know, it can be a
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  Speaker 2: real like, it can be a real range of people.
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  Speaker 2: But we're also talking about those that have disabilities. We're
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  Speaker 2: talking about our seniors, some of our pensioners in the community,
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  Speaker 2: and then you know, trying to get them into a
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  Speaker 2: place can be really tough.
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  Speaker 1: It can be tough. And you're absolutely right, and there
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  Speaker 1: are some areas and let's not make it's not as
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  Speaker 1: important that I'm not in here and Pollyanna saying everything's
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  Speaker 1: wonderful or will be wonderful with solutions, because the reality
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  Speaker 1: is we've got a lot of work to do in
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  Speaker 1: this space. We know there are some public housing complexes
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  Speaker 1: where there have been problems with behavior and visitors. How
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  Speaker 1: it's been let to get to that situation is a
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  Speaker 1: good question. I mean, there are organizations that can support
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  Speaker 1: tenants and stop that sort of stuff from happening and
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  Speaker 1: in future, the minister said, the current model just simply
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  Speaker 1: isn't working. We need to get the non government community
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  Speaker 1: housing sector in there to manage more of those assets
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  Speaker 1: and to get better results. Because you know, nobody wants
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  Speaker 1: to live in a neighborhood where there are issues. We've
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  Speaker 1: got to face that that is reality, especially with visitors
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  Speaker 1: coming to town and causing issues in our public housing estates.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you spot on, Peter, because that's something that we
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  Speaker 2: hear very often. You know, we have people get in
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  Speaker 2: contact with us and say, you know, yesterday, for example,
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  Speaker 2: we had a listener getting contact and say that they
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  Speaker 2: live next door to a public housing home where there
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  Speaker 2: was serious issues with visitors there. You know, really sadly
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  Speaker 2: he'd said, you know, a child sleeping in the backyard
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  Speaker 2: then because they didn't feel safe inside. It does make
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  Speaker 2: you wonder how does it get to that point before
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  Speaker 2: Territory Housing steps in.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's also about resourcing, to be honest, Katie, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I mean the service sector really is overstretched and underfunded.
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  Speaker 1: And we know that when organizations can get in and
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  Speaker 1: support tenants in around eighty percent of chances, sorry eighty
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  Speaker 1: percent of occasions, they're able to help the tenant keep
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  Speaker 1: their tendency right and get evicted. So stuff works. It
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  Speaker 1: is a difficult issue. Most of the complaints that relate
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  Speaker 1: to public housing tendancies are due to visitor issues the
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  Speaker 1: overwhelming majority. And that's a very difficult conversation that we're
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  Speaker 1: working through with government to see what we can do
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  Speaker 1: differently to be more proactive and to work with people,
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  Speaker 1: work with visitors and tenants alike to get the right
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  Speaker 1: sort of behaviors rather than having to look at red
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  Speaker 1: cards and evictions and.
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  Speaker 2: Everything, Peter. We also hear quite a bit, you know,
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  Speaker 2: from people who say, I live next door to a
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  Speaker 2: public housing house that's been vacant for you know, an
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  Speaker 2: extended period of time. Is that something that happens fairly offered.
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  Speaker 1: It's a real problem, Katie. And one of the one
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  Speaker 1: of the indicators is the amount of time it takes
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  Speaker 1: for a house to be retenanted once it comes on
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  Speaker 1: off the market, when somebody leaves leaves the house, and
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  Speaker 1: it's on average it's one hundred and twenty days to
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  Speaker 1: get that retenanted. Where the department's key performance indicator with
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  Speaker 1: seventy days. The organizations were talking about before community housing providers.
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  Speaker 1: Your list may not be aware, but we already have
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  Speaker 1: housing providers in Northern Territory that do amazing work and
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  Speaker 1: really the government is looking to see how it can
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  Speaker 1: grow that sector. They are required under their very strict
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  Speaker 1: regulations to return their housing back in twenty four days,
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  Speaker 1: not one hundred and twenty days, twenty four days. If
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  Speaker 1: there is damage in a property, it's forty two days.
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  Speaker 1: So these organizations have been proven across Australia to do
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  Speaker 1: a far better job than state and territory public housing
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  Speaker 1: providers in that they're close to the tenants. They can
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  Speaker 1: do better community development, they can build inclusive communities that
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  Speaker 1: are functioning, and they can also attract a lot of
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  Speaker 1: revenue through commonwalth and assistance that the commonwalth government will pay.
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  Speaker 1: They won't pay it to public housing, but they'll pay
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  Speaker 1: it to community housing providers. And because these are philanthropic
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  Speaker 1: organizations that want to do good work, they don't have
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  Speaker 1: to pay things like GST and they can also get
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  Speaker 1: exemptions on things like stamp duty, So like is.
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  Speaker 2: That where we need to be sort of looking to
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  Speaker 2: expand here, because if we're not in a situation where
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  Speaker 2: we've got the money to be able to build more
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  Speaker 2: public housing accommodation at this point in time, do we
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  Speaker 2: need to be looking at those community housing providers to
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  Speaker 2: try and expand our stock in different ways.
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  Speaker 1: It's the only option that we're seeing at the moment
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  Speaker 1: that's a viable option when you look at the fact
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  Speaker 1: that housing requires obviously requires land, and it requires capital
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  Speaker 1: money to build houses, and it requires money. So we
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  Speaker 1: know the territory government can and should make a contribution
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  Speaker 1: with land because they do have some land ownership. They
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  Speaker 1: should also be looking at how they can contribute to
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  Speaker 1: getting more houses built. Community housing providers can probably get
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  Speaker 1: more housing built, more cost effectively and quicker and better.
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  Speaker 1: So it's a partnership. The Territory government certainly can't walk
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  Speaker 1: away from urban public housing. You know, it talks Katie
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  Speaker 1: about all the work it's doing in the remote space,
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  Speaker 1: which is fantastic. It's got a frunt up to the
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  Speaker 1: plate and do something significant in the urban space as well.
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  Speaker 1: This is certainly no time for dizzering, you know, we
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  Speaker 1: heard earlier this week that there's talk of getting another
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  Speaker 1: consulted in to help with this project. We've been waiting
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  Speaker 1: for six years for a strategy for community housing, and
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  Speaker 1: you know, we really don't need to get another consultant
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  Speaker 1: to come in and tell government how to do its job.
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  Speaker 2: Good point, Peter, you know, to really put this into
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  Speaker 2: perspective for people listening this morning, like how many people
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  Speaker 2: have we gotten the Northern Territory at the moment who
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  Speaker 2: need help with getting a home. I don't mean just
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  Speaker 2: those that require full sort of public housing, but you know,
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  Speaker 2: maybe in some cases it can be somebody who just
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  Speaker 2: sort of you know, who is really struggling and needs,
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  Speaker 2: you know, some assistance with let's say, community housing.
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  Speaker 1: Katie, it's a really good question. We're not just talking
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  Speaker 1: here about people who are rough sleepers. We're talking about
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  Speaker 1: people that are facing rental increases that aren't able to
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  Speaker 1: meet the rent payments. We're talking about people that want
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  Speaker 1: to come to Northern Territory to make the territory their
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  Speaker 1: home and to work. And we want families to pack
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  Speaker 1: up and bring the kids up from Melbourne and Adelaide
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  Speaker 1: to work here and create and grow our jobs. In
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  Speaker 1: an economy is exactly what we want to do. But
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  Speaker 1: there's not housing. There's no house, there's not enough housing
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  Speaker 1: at all, let alone stuff that's affordable. So to give
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  Speaker 1: you an example, there's a company up here called Venture
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  Speaker 1: Housing Company that's a registered community housing provider doing great work.
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  Speaker 1: Normally they would have twenty to twenty five applications for
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  Speaker 1: their housing when it's available, and that's generally targeted to
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  Speaker 1: people who've got a little bit more capacity to pay,
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  Speaker 1: so they're not eligible for public housing, but they're eligible
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  Speaker 1: for housing that's a little bit discounted to the normal market.
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  Speaker 1: You're around eighty percent of market. They had three hundred
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  Speaker 1: people on their wait lists, three hundred people apply for
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  Speaker 1: the last vacancy down in Palmerston four weeks ago, when
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  Speaker 1: normally they'd see twenty to twenty five applications. They said,
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  Speaker 1: it's unprecedented and that just really underlies is how tough
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  Speaker 1: it is out there at the number. And we need
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  Speaker 1: a plan. We need a plan really right now. We
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  Speaker 1: need to get cracking on this stuff.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Peter McMillan, we are going to have to leave
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  Speaker 2: it there. Unfortunately. I'll tell you what I could talk
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  Speaker 2: to you for much longer about this, but we might
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  Speaker 2: get you back in the studio another day because we've
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  Speaker 2: got to rush off to the news. Thank you so much,
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  Speaker 2: thank you, And that was Peter McMillan there, who is
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  Speaker 2: nt Shelter's chief executive officer. That number if you're keen
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: to call through eight nine four one one O four
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  Speaker 2: nine