Latest / She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young / SENSITIVE EPISODE - Nic Phillis - Mother to two/Women's champion for those who suffer Hyperemesis gravidarum/ Difficult pregnancies

Transcript

SENSITIVE EPISODE - Nic Phillis - Mother to two/Women's champion for those who suffer Hyperemesis gravidarum/ Difficult pregnancies · She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're listening to She Said It Out Loud, where real women share real stories without sugarcoating a thing.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Emma Young, and I'll bring you on filtered conversations with ambitious women who faced challenges, made bold moves, and learned a lot along the way.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: You'll get real takeaways, honest lessons, stories that you're gonna relate to.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Righto, let's get started.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hi there and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Emma Young.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And before we get started on today's episode, I just wanted to give you a heads up that today's episode is a sensitive one.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: It does feature topics such as difficult pregnancies, extreme warning sickness, birth stories, and also the loss of pregnancy.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to give you the heads up before you play press play and continue on with the rest of the episode.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Feel free to skip it, pause it, or just go on to the next episode.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally fine.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to give you that heads up before you continue.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Nick Phillips.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: She is a mother of two, she's a wife, she's a sister, she's a daughter.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I got to have the privilege of marrying her and her husband, Craig, a few years ago in Broome.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we've kept in contact ever since.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she's been one of my absolute number one supporters since the day that I actually launched the podcast.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Nick is the first person that actually reached out to me and asked to be a guest on the podcast.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I couldn't say no, because it's usually me reaching out to other women.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt incredibly honored that she thought that it would be very beneficial to other women out there that have experienced similar difficult pregnancies and difficult births and just wanted to get a story out there.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna stop waffling.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Here's our conversation.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Nick, and welcome to the podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: For my listeners out there, I would have said it in the intro, but I'm just gonna say it again.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Please skip ahead to another episode.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm totally gonna be okay because Nick and I are gonna be talking about some fairly serious, sensitive topics today.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna cut straight into it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna stop waffling.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to welcome Nick to the podcast.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you, Emma.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited to sit and have a yarn with you today.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we were just talking about this off-air.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: The Nick is actually the first woman that reached out to me and said that she wanted to be on my podcast.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought it's normally me hassling out people, but I'm so appreciative of you.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to say thank you.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you for letting me come and speak on your podcast, and I'm super excited.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! Okay, so now tell us a bit about yourself.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know, I know you, but for the listeners out there, can you share a little bit about your background?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I come from a massive family, so I'm one of seven, so I am naturally loud.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I am a wife, I am a mum of two human babies and then one fur baby.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, to get TJ.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, TJ, yes.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I work in education.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in the Perth Hills, and then I lived in Broome on and off for eight years.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a little bit about me.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I'm absolutely a lover of netball too.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you are a lover of netball.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I do love my netball.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my sister, she loves netball.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you still like play it or are you retired?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just play socially now, but I well, I'm hoping to get back this season.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how my body holds up.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Only seven weeks post-having a baby, so we'll see.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to don't wanna, you know, make you get your shoes on just yet, but I love how you didn't say you're retired.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not retired, definitely not.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm only 33.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 34 on Sunday, but I'm still young.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I feel young.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you are way young.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now I feel old.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to talk to you a little bit about what actually motivated you to share your pregnancy and motherhood story publicly and to actually come onto the podcast.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: What motivated you to do that?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Before I get into that, I just want to say that I'm extremely blessed that I had no fertility issues and that I have two beautiful, strong babies.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to be very mindful of that.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to share a little bit of my journey purely because I know that not every pregnancy is you're glowing.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really important for us to be able to have these conversations and hopefully by me sharing my story, it can help others that are going through anything that's really difficult during their pregnancy.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't have said that better.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit nervous sharing.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's okay.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a little bit sleep deprived.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: I had broken sleep last night, so just bear with me if I don't make sense sometimes.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I think anybody that's especially the mums that will be tuning into today's episode, they're gonna be sitting there probably wanting to give you like a virtual hug.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because anybody that's had a baby, and I mean, did you say seven weeks?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Seven yeah, seven weeks post-paced.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like your baby is brand new, freshly minted baby that's just come out.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, and Billy is her name, such a gorgeous name.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, before falling pregnant though, how did you imagine pregnancy was gonna be like?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in my mind, I thought, you know, you look in social media or you look at a lot of women and no one really talks about how hard it can be and how difficult it can be.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you hear the morning sickness, but you don't hear about no one really shares.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's starting to be a little bit more on social media now that I've sort of dived into looking into it, but no one really shares like the hard times and what can actually happen to you.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go back before I fell pregnant.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I got married by obviously yourself in 2022.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I had a tragic uh loss.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: My childhood best friend of 30 years passed away.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So before I was pregnant, I was still grieving quite heavily leading into my pregnancy.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was already not in the best headspace before I fell pregnant, but I did uh fall pregnant very easily, very quickly, my first try.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we were really, really happy, and also my sister was a week ahead of me, my big sister.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we were all, you know, really excited that we were gonna have cousins a week apart.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: But as soon as I did fall pregnant, it was just like bang, I got hit with extreme morning sickness.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's called hypermesis graviton.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can't pronounce it properly, so just in my king, I call it HG.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, I call it HG.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I was given that straight away, and I was also dealing with, you know, my grief of having that guilt that my childhood best friend never got to experience having his own child as well.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of like wraparound emotions that were going on when I was first pregnant.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know at the time that that's what that was called?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or did you just think you had morning sickness?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, because it was your first baby.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: How did you know that the extremeness of it wasn't normal?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So my middle sister, she actually had it as well, her first pregnancy.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I watched my big sister go through it prior to me.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew straight away that this is this is not right.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I shouldn't be vomiting all day, every day.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: For anyone who doesn't know what HG is, it's not just you know, you get up and you vomit in the morning.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally, I describe it as like having gastro.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I felt.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you know, when you're physically not well, then obviously mentally you can be not well as well.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then in my sister's second trimester, she actually lost her baby.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it was, you know, horrendous having to watch my big sister go through that, and then this massive guilt that I was holding.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I get to still be pregnant?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: When she doesn't, she's five years older than me.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a really uh hard time at the start.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um lots of guilt was coming through my first and second trimester, and then into my third trimester, I got diagnosed with um pre-clampsia and cholestasias.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what I just got hit with everything.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I was allergic to being pregnant.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like it.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but again, it was that like pressure of that you should feel happy when you're pregnant.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want to complain, I just wanted to keep going, and that's kind of my personality, just to keep going and just get on with it because there was just so much going on in my body, my body was just rejecting this pregnancy.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also mentally, too.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that like you said, that would have been incredibly difficult to watch your sister obviously you know go through that and then you're still pregnant, but then you're obviously experiencing this extreme, you know, sickness.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, it feels like you're being allergic to actually being pregnant.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And my other sister as well, she had seven pregnancies and had two children from her seven pregnancies, so there was a lot of me having to be sensitive around my sisters, yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and because the three of us are like glued together, and whatever one feels, we all feel.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think this is a hereditary thing?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can this be a hereditary thing?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: The HG, yeah, it can be.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: But like the fact that you've got your sisters that have lost a child or lost children.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: My middle sister, she just got hit with everything just unlucky.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like she just got hit with she lost two of the fallopian tubes, like she just had so many different fertility issues that weren't the same that must have all had.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we all just got hit with really unlucky.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And she is like the most incredible mum now to her two beautiful boys, and my other sister's got two beautiful girls, but yes, they definitely had been through lots and lots and lots.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously had Leighton.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: How old is he now?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's two and a half, so I had Leighton at 36 weeks.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So my blood pressure was just through the roof.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I had him at 36 weeks.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I did want to talk about, you know, I didn't have that strong connection with him inside me because I was so unwell.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard to imagine feeling that joy of, oh my god, I'm so excited to become a mum when I'm so unwell.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was so hard to see the end.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said at the start, I am so in love with my sport, exercising my life, and you know, you get told once you have a kid, your life's gonna end.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, you know.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was so physically unwell, it was just so hard to see the finish line.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I tell you what, as soon as that little boy came out, oh my god, it might it makes me feel emotional, but as soon as he came out, it was like my life had completely changed.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: He was the most beautiful little boy that I have ever seen.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's important to say there will be people out there that'll experience the exact same thing as you, and then it and I think the way that you've described it is perfect.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can't see the finishing line because you are so sick, and you're like, just get this done, just get this baby out already.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, then once he came out, it was you were hit with the emotions, the motherly love.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Was it like that?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I had a bit of a f interesting birth as well.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I got induced at 36 weeks, and then I went into labour for eight hours, and then his blood pressure went up, so then we had to, so heart rate went up, so then I had an emergency C-section.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And sorry, Craig, I'm gonna throw him under the bus here.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: But my husband is a teacher, and they came in and they said, This is emergency, we've got to take you into theatre.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband turned to the doctor and said, Can you just give me a minute?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just need to clean my stuff up.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So he wanted to organise his clothes and his items before we went into emergency surgery.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, No, I don't think you understand, it's an emergency.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry about your clothes.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: We'll come back.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, had to throw them under the deep pen.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so then yeah, we had him through the emergency C section, and that's like a whole thing because you just I was quite out of it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, and once he came out, he ended up going straight down to the neonatal ward for two and a bit weeks as well because he wasn't feeding properly, so he could have a feeding tube.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like a whole that's a whole thing too.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: When you know you've had Leighton, you've just gone through this horrendous pregnancy.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Were you at that point like this is it?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm only having one kid, I'm not even gonna bother because if there's any way that I have to go through this again, like I just don't reckon I could survive.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I definitely Craig and I thought that we're gonna be having just one kid, and then I just had this, like, something inside me maybe like a year after that I wanted Leighton to have a sibling because I'm one of seven.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted that experience that I have with my sisters and my stepbrothers and the whole family.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted her him to have that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, let's wait till my body's back, you know, like I'm feeling good, as in, like, my health is back, and we'll wait two years and then we'll try again.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of put in my mind, I was like, it's gonna be so different this time, Craig.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm mentally in a really great place.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Being a mum, I know that feeling.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm obsessed with Layton, I just want another baby.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Craig was like, let's do it.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Felt pregnant, first go again.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then five weeks into my second pregnancy, it hit me probably a thousand times worse.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh whoa.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was vomiting, I couldn't get out of bed, I couldn't eat, I couldn't drink, so I ended up in King Eddie Hospital for three weeks.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Holy cow! Yep, and I was on a drip, they were gonna give me nutrients through the drip because I couldn't even eat anything.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think it got to about eight weeks, and I just turned to Craig and I literally was screaming in the hospital.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just said, I can't do this, I can't do this too Layton, I can't do this to you.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I can't do eight months of this.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Craig, super lucky for my husband, was just so supportive, and he's like, I'll do whatever you want to do.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember being in the shower and I just had this feeling that I always wanted to have a daughter.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have a girl, I just know it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: They were able to put me on steroids and then metazopine as well, and so many different medications, and they got me to a point where I could kind of eat, and I went, all right, I can do this.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So then you got through it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so then, well, I got through it just.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just so then what happened towards the end, like towards you know, the end of your pregnancy?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I had I reckon I was in and out, I muted a hundred times.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had the most beautiful obstetrician, Alicia McCurry.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone needs a great obstetrician, okay.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: She's incredible.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had just had a team of staff helping me throughout that first and second trimester.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they always say once you get to your second trimester, the nausea settles.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but mine did not.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to keep going on steroids.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if anyone has taken steroids, there's massive side effects you can have, like weight gain, fluid retention.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So put 35, 40 kilos on this pregnancy because of what I had to put medication I had to have.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I got to 31 weeks because my immune system was suppressed from the steroids.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I literally had gastro, COVID, influenza, every virus you could possibly think of I had throughout pregnancy.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: They ended up putting me in hospital for the remaining of my pregnancy to get me through to 36 weeks.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was admitted, yeah, at 32 weeks and I stayed there until I had Billy.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you've been through the ringer.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here just going, I can barely handle just getting like the flu.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So to have all those things on top of being pregnant, you are a superwoman.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you became so sick so early in your pregnancy, how did you actually cope mentally?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think the only way that I could get through was my village.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my mum and my husband sitting in the hospital with me, and they just said, we will do whatever we can to get you through this pregnancy.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have a roster of making food for you and Leighton and Craig.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have, we'll stay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: My mum stayed with Craig for weeks, my mother-in-law stayed with Craig for weeks, and my sisters, my best friend, it was the village around me.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think for anyone that's a single mum, or I don't know how you would get through this without a massive village.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I am just so grateful for the support I had.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I had my sister driving me to hospital at midnight.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just the feeling I had the second time around, not only was I thinking about myself, I was thinking about my son and uh the guilt that I still have now of God, you're getting, I don't really cry, but you're getting me, you know, of eight months being away from my son and not being present in his wife because I was so fully um.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's something that just yeah, was so difficult.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I think that's just a mother's instinct, isn't it?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Once you become a mother, you can't and and for this situation that you found yourself in, it's not like you planned it.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's only natural for you to feel have those feelings.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was I don't want to say beat yourself up, but in saying that, I get it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And your hormones are crazy.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just, you know, like some days laying in bed and hearing Craig and Layton out in the living room, and I'm on the tool on and off vomiting.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can live and shower some days.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And just to hear them and not be able to do what I could as a mum was just something I don't wish upon anybody.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Going on with H G, as we're calling it, yes, not many people know about it.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you mentioned your story to me, I'm like, oh yeah, that's that thing that Princess Kate has.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like she's the only, she's the only celebrity that anybody knows that's experienced it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you are now the second person that I know that has it and gets it terribly.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: What would you want in the future in regards to education, to having education out there for people to know just how serious it is?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think people being mindful, one thing that I've learned, people being mindful of the comments they're making to people when they are pregnant and if they are having having morning sickness, comments like, oh, just have some crackers, or you'll be right, it will go.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or think about what it's gonna feel like when you have the baby.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think just more awareness around what it is and how hard it is in the moment.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So think about, you know, again, like you've got gastro for eight months.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you sent to someone, oh, just think about an eight months' time, you'll be happy.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people just need to be more sensitive around what it is and how much it can really affect pregnant women throughout their eight months, if that makes sense.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a really good point.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Even just going further into that, I think most people tend to be more mindful.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to put boomers out there, but that's who I think of where they grew up in a generation where they have that exact attitude of what you said at the start.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: As in, I know that you said that's part of your personality, where you just get on with it, just get on with it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that anybody that experiences anything difficult, you know, they might go, oh, you know, just toughen up.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is what women do.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: They just harden up and just get on with the job.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But something for what you've experienced and other women out there that if they know of anybody or have experienced HG themselves, they're gonna sit there and go, that's exactly right.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's better for you to be quiet than to make comments.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like though, your network, you're very fortunate.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So your family, your close friends and things like that, were they open in regards to asking how you were going, or did everyone just kind of leave you alone?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, they were well, everyone knows that I'm a little bit stubborn and I try and push through, but they all know me so well that they just got around me and they just listened.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: No one ever said any silly comments to me.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've called Bless Love You Billy, but I've called her all different names when she was in my belly.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not having that pregnancy glow and having that connection to Billy while she was in my belly.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: My family were just like, that's okay, whatever we need to call her, we'll call her.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was very, very fortunate is a great word to say.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so did it happen again then, like once she was out, you had the same feelings?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, when she came out, it was actually quite when I got onto booked-in cesarean this time.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when I got onto the operating table, you know me well.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had a bit of a panic attack because all of the rush of everything that happened throughout my pregnancy.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was trying to climb off the table after I had my block of my legs.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I was trying to climb off with my arms.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're about to get her out.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as she came out, like my husband and I, we were both just emotional because it was just the best feeling seeing her, and it was worth every single second, and I would do it again for her.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: But my god, I will never ever be pregnant again.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm done.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was literally gonna be my next question.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Was are we doing a third?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Are we going that's it?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's so dark game over.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've never ever ever put myself, my husband, my kids, my family through it.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, so lucky that I got to have two beautiful children.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, the feeling that when she came out, I was like, this is what I was meant to do is be mum to these two beautiful kids.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's important to note too, though, that it's okay to make that decision.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you're only young.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like you literally could have another two or three kids, easy as, and you'll be fine.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact that you're just so hardlined and you've made your decision, that's okay as well.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Even my obstetrician had a joke, she said, she'll put my face at the front of the reception, do not take her on as a client.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm so like my obstetrician was my best friend by the end of my pregnancy.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, never, never again.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just blessed to have my two beautiful kids, and that's all I want.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you uh go to a mother's group?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that something that you do now?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I did with my son, but I have so many friends around this area, and my sisters like we're with each other every second that we can be.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll go to the mother's group for Billy, but I don't I have so many people around me that I don't feel yeah, I don't get too deep into going into mothers' groups.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was just asking in the sense that it does seem like you've obviously been blessed to have such a fortunate, you know, surrounding network that's part of your close family.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just thinking for those women out there that might not have that, you know, I guess mother's group would be like the next step.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because even though the baby's out, there's still that importance of keeping on top of your mental health, I think.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with me, I'm super lucky.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy once the babies are out of me, the HG just instantly goes.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Once that placenta's gone, I'm 100% better.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I find newborn life a breeze compared to my pregnancies.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, you know, just back walking after three weeks after my cesarean.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I find it really, really easy, but I know that that's not everyone's journey.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely mother's group would help a lot of women connect after having their babies.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've discussed before you even got pregnant, you got married, I should say, that you were experiencing grief with the loss of your friend, and then you got married, and then you obviously got pregnant pretty much straight away.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how did you navigate during this time that on top of your sister, you know, that lost her baby throughout her pregnancy?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I look at my two pregnancies and my first one, definitely mentally I struggled, but physically I was worse in the second.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I think, you know, I just spoke to my obstetrician and put all the things in place that I needed to support myself to get through.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I just had to be really sensitive around how I could support my sister, and we've got such great communication with each other.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: We were able to set boundaries, you know, like my baby shell could be triggering for her for both my sisters.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we just made sure that they I made sure they felt safe.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then for me, I spoke a lot to my mum.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: She was my go-to rather than going to my sisters throughout my pregnancy.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then, my you know, around my grief, my son, his middle name is after my best mate that passed away.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we were able to honour him through that, and that helped me a lot.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, that's good.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just wanted to touch on that that I feel like people.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That would be listening would be thinking, how would you even be so sensitive and you know thinking of your sisters?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because not everybody is like that, not everybody has such a good and close relationship with their siblings where they could be like that and think of others.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that you even thought to think, well, maybe you know the baby shower could be triggering or anything like that.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I really think that's besides being kind, I think it's really important that you've mentioned that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know that you're more than just being self-aware, you're aware of those people that are around you.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it definitely was internally hard for me, I'm not gonna lie.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I managed to get through it and get on the other side.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's next for you?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, just enjoying and lapping up every moment of being among and just getting my life back.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I guess after having Billy, I kind of came home and my son had developed so much and I missed so much.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Even like my husband and I, we just love going down to the coast, we love doing anything exercise, we're exercise fiends, and so does my son.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was down at the park, being able to tackle my son again, yeah, playing rugby, enjoying family life.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: My career is massive as well.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love my career, so getting back into work when it feels right, getting back into my netball, but just enjoying every single moment of having my two beautiful kids.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's really important.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I like how you mentioned that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: That you're like, I understand that I'm a mum, but I also do love my career, and I also do love my sport.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I can do it.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So many mums are gonna be listening to this, going, that's what mums do.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you do everything.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: You do, everything feels better when you're a mummy doing it.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like getting back on the network court for the first time after having late, and I was like, my God, I had a baby, I'm back on court, I'm smashing it, but it feels so much better because I'm his mum and he's watching me do this.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So everything just feels better for me being a mum.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love that for you.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: The first one that I do want to ask you is if you could change anything for pregnant women, you know, I know that's a very open-ended question, but if there was anything you that you could change for pregnant women themselves, what would it be?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's around that it's okay to not feel the glow, that it's okay, you know, if you watch, you know, you're someone like me who exercises so much and then not being able to do it during my pregnancy and then gaining a horrendous amount of weight.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to feel angry, or it's okay to feel sad, or it's okay to feel anything that you want to feel while you're pregnant.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be perfect, and your journey is your journey.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So take that pressure off yourself, which is so much easier said than done.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know I did it for both my pregnancies.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Be try and be kind to yourself and don't follow the expectations that women get, pressure that we get put on ourselves for when you're pregnant.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's I think I couldn't say that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't have said that any better.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: That made sense.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was perfect.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Be kinder to yourself.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you could change people's perspective God, I can't even get the word out.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Perspectives.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Perspectives on HG, because I feel like, you know, the majority of society are gonna look at it and not think that it's an even thing.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna go, whatever, it's morning sickness times two.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you could change what people's thoughts are towards this, further education, yeah anything like that.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's further education and also just not putting your opinions across.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said before, like listen.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you've not been through it, you don't understand what it's like.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And just putting suggestions out, like how many times people have said, have some ginger.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is ginger gonna do for me?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Probably just gonna vomit it up.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So just listen, and you don't always have to put your experience across to someone else.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's their journey, and HG is horrendous.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, you know, you've just touched on something, and I know it's meant to be rapid fire, but my my mind is just ticking along here.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't put your I think that's the same with anything in regards to pregnancy, really.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Same with birth stories, you might have had a horrendous line, somebody might have had a dream.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I get that people want to give their thoughts and their information, but really I always say to pregnant women, just take things with a little bit of a pinch of salt because every single woman is going to experience it differently.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was not sick at all for either of my pregnancies.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would never comment and go, Well, there was that one time I felt a little bit off.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: You don't.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would never say, so Nick, I feel like you're, it would come across as not necessarily showing off, but it's not necessary.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to know that that was my experience.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think more of a listening ear and more of a how can it help you.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is better.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's something that you're truly grateful for?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my family and my village.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you call them that.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I love it.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have such a big village around me.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And especially, I mean my husband, you know, Paul Craig, he was everything for a toddler, and everyone knows how full on toddlers are and boys for another level, trying to go to work, then trying to watch his wife so unwell.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: He definitely just wasn't incredible.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then my middle sister, she had HG as well for both her pregnancies.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So to have her by my side and to have someone that's been through it, she, yeah, she was just incredible.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't have done it without her.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's really special.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, because you're a fan of the podcast, I do a shout-out at the end of every episode.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, who's your shout-out?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: To one of my close friends called Amy.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, her name's Amy.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, not cool.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Amy.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, big shout-out to her.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know this podcast is all about talking about inspiring women, and she has been hit with so much in her life, losing her dad, and then her partner, who was my childhood best friend.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And she has just survived the last four years, and I'm just so incredibly proud of her, and she definitely deserves all the love for everything that she's been doing just to get through.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: A big shout out to Amy.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Go Amy, and thank you for being such a blessing and a kind soul for Nick here.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she is.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to say thank you so much.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've got little Billy here, and she's sleeping peacefully.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love it.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: People, any mum's gonna go, I know that Pat sound.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: If it's if it if it's in this in the background there, people will definitely hear it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank you so much because you've been more than great, you know, gracious with letting me come into your space.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: But not only that, I still have the comment where you sent me when you even heard about me doing a podcast, and you were like, what's it called?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna download it, I'm gonna listen to it.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: You were just a massive supporter from the very get-go.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then to have you come on and tell your story and be so honest and open with me, I want to say thank you so much.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you won me over when you're my um wedding celebrant.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you need a wedding celebrant, Emma is like unreal.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, you're doing such an amazing work sharing all these women's stories.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I am honoured to be a part of this journey for you.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming onto the podcast.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: No worries, thank you.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to She Said It Out Loud.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you took something away from today's episode, I would love to hear from you.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Don't find me on Instagram at officially Emma Young.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And hit follows to new episodes lent straight in your feed.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time for more real and honest stories from legendary women.