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Bloomberg Money: Credit Card Indicators and Golf's Changing Fanbase · Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news, Bloomberg Money.
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  Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast. I'm Tom Keen with
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  Speaker 2: Scarlet Foo. Join us each week for a smart look
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  Speaker 2: if the force is shaping your financial life. On personal finance,
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  Speaker 2: wherever you listen, and is always on the Bloomberg Terminal
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  Speaker 2: and the Bloomberg Business app. Got a great set of
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  Speaker 2: Bloomberg people to be with us, David Girls just won't
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  Speaker 2: go away Bloomberg this weekend on Friday.
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  Speaker 3: Ramping up to the show.
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  Speaker 4: You have a key guest this week, Yes, maybe one
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  Speaker 4: from Michigan.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to tease that.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, a moment Jess a song with us. Thank you
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  Speaker 2: so much for joining and nice to have you here.
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  Speaker 2: Got lots to talk about at the start of the
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  Speaker 2: show right now, But how did you affect mister Hassett
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  Speaker 2: here you were talking about socialism and the New Democratic
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  Speaker 2: Party broll.
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  Speaker 5: We're talking about some inconsistencies maybe in the Republicans language.
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  Speaker 5: They have talked about the communist socialist Democrats and asked
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  Speaker 5: him what a socialist was, and he said, the government
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  Speaker 5: owns the means of production. And then I pointed out
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  Speaker 5: that the Trump administration has been taking stakes in a
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  Speaker 5: lot of American companies.
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  Speaker 3: John Edwards years ago was.
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  Speaker 2: Old school and what I saw today was a too
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  Speaker 2: America's job atcon. I mean, have you ever seen it,
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  Speaker 2: Mike McKee, this split apart as we all struggle to retirement.
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  Speaker 5: I don't think it was too split apart this time.
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  Speaker 5: It was a lot of stuff under the hood that
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  Speaker 5: you have to kind of thread together to make a
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  Speaker 5: story out of it. Now, we did lose twenty three
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  Speaker 5: thousand jobs, but fifty thousand of those were local education
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  Speaker 5: teachers and education workers, and a lot of that maybe
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  Speaker 5: just a seasonal difference of when people were taking off payrolls,
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  Speaker 5: because they usually come off May in June, and so
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  Speaker 5: that'll go away in the next month. And then the
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  Speaker 5: question is where's the rest of the job. We lost
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  Speaker 5: nineteen thousand retail jobs, but the rest of it was
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  Speaker 5: all just kind of lower hiring. Social services and education
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  Speaker 5: and health has been the big job creator, and we've
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  Speaker 5: been usually getting thirty forty fifty thousand a month in
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  Speaker 5: that category only got twenty two thousand, So hiring slowed down,
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  Speaker 5: but we had a four point one percent unemployment rate
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  Speaker 5: because a lot of people left the labor force. Labor
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  Speaker 5: force was a lot smaller again the second month. And
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  Speaker 5: what that's telling you is that the President's deportation plans
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  Speaker 5: are working. The baby boomers, except for Tom, are still
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  Speaker 5: are retiring now.
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  Speaker 1: And I think, what's behind his shoulder?
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  Speaker 3: Last time on the show for him? Save the show
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  Speaker 3: right now, young one.
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  Speaker 6: So the job's report took off the front page at
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  Speaker 6: least for this warning. But when it comes to inflation,
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  Speaker 6: still not oil prices, David and consumers have the Iron
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  Speaker 6: War fatigue. Every headline on military strikes or talks causes
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  Speaker 6: huge swings and oil prices and gas prices. This is
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  Speaker 6: really difficult to know where things stand. I think even
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  Speaker 6: the President has Iron War fatigue.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's true.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, he's been talking about the prospects of a deal,
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  Speaker 4: but it's one that's been negotiated between the Iranians and
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  Speaker 4: Theomani's and a very circumscribed one that doesn't involve, certainly
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  Speaker 4: the nuclear program or anything like that interesting to see
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  Speaker 4: the way in which the President, if not talking about
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  Speaker 4: the Iron War, isn't pivoting to talking about the economy,
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  Speaker 4: although we do know from recent reporting from Bloomberg and
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  Speaker 4: other outlets he's calling up Kevin Warresh, calling up the
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  Speaker 4: FED chair more frequently now to talk about the economy.
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  Speaker 4: Spit all his ideas and where things are here about
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  Speaker 4: mister Warsh's impressions of the data.
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  Speaker 7: So clearly cognizant of where things.
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  Speaker 4: Are, but that's not manifesting the way that he's talking
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  Speaker 4: about on the campaign is.
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  Speaker 2: An odd David that we're ignoring affordability, standard of living,
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  Speaker 2: paycheck to paycheck right now, it seems like nobody's talking
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  Speaker 2: about it.
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  Speaker 4: I wouldn't paint that with the broad brush, but I'd
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  Speaker 4: go back to the White House. And it is something
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  Speaker 4: that I think President Trump's advisors desperately wanted to talk
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  Speaker 4: about more of the advances that he's made, and you
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  Speaker 4: saw him go to Las Vegas this week to talk
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  Speaker 4: once again about no taxes on tips, which was such
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  Speaker 4: a rally and cride during the campaign. But it is
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  Speaker 4: not something that he is either fond of talking about
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  Speaker 4: or able to talk about or able to stay focused
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  Speaker 4: on when he's on the campaign trail. So I think
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  Speaker 4: that is laid bare for so many people. You mentioned
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  Speaker 4: oil prices. Gas price is incredibly expensive. I think there's
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  Speaker 4: an awareness of the fact that is the case here
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  Speaker 4: across this country. But it is certainly to your point,
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  Speaker 4: certainly not in the Republican zeitgeist, the president zeitgeist. You
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  Speaker 4: look at the election that we had in Michigan this week,
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  Speaker 4: it really was an animating issue.
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  Speaker 3: And even when you see kind of.
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  Speaker 4: Invective put on the candidate who won on abdulahs a Ed,
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  Speaker 4: he pivots very quickly to talk about affordability in healthcare
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  Speaker 4: and other matters.
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  Speaker 6: So it's because of this that investors kind of take
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  Speaker 6: matters into their own hands. And Sajah, you've written a
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  Speaker 6: story about how artificial intelligence is helping retail investors become
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  Speaker 6: kind of DIY hedge fund managers. They're using this technology
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  Speaker 6: to build programs huge returns in the stock market because
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  Speaker 6: this is what they see as their path forward.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly.
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  Speaker 8: If you think about kind of the progression of retail trading,
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  Speaker 8: this is almost like zero commission two point zero, So
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  Speaker 8: five ten years ago when Robinhood kind of spearheaded this
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  Speaker 8: zero commission period, and then during the pandemic we saw
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  Speaker 8: like game stop and mean stock trading, and now it's
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  Speaker 8: almost the next chapter for retail trading, especially with artificial intelligence.
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  Speaker 8: These folks that we talked to, they don't just ask
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  Speaker 8: AI like what stocks to buy, They're asking them to
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  Speaker 8: help build code, build a model, very sophisticate a model
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  Speaker 8: to help them identify strategies and even generate trading calls.
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  Speaker 6: Okay, so on the one hand, this empowers individual investors,
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  Speaker 6: but on the other hand, everyone is using these AI
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  Speaker 6: models which kind of look through the same data, and
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  Speaker 6: they use similar models, and I would imagine spit out
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  Speaker 6: similar outcomes. Doesn't this create you know, concentration risk where
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  Speaker 6: people piloted the same positions for sure.
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  Speaker 8: If they're using the same AI models and generating similar calls,
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  Speaker 8: that could really amplify the market swings.
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  Speaker 3: Those are calls. Does AI tell you when to get out?
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  Speaker 7: It does too.
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  Speaker 8: Some people have set up, for instance, ten percent stop
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  Speaker 8: losses so that you can do that.
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  Speaker 3: We didn't need AI.
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  Speaker 8: But if you're treating at a high frequency during the day,
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  Speaker 8: when you're at your day job or when you're having
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  Speaker 8: lunch with friends or even when you're sleeping. These AIS
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  Speaker 8: can actually execute or automate your strategies for you.
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  Speaker 6: I want to bring back to jobs for a moment here,
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  Speaker 6: Mike McKee, do we see any evidence of AI the
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  Speaker 6: kind of stuff that Sidja was talking about taking away
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  Speaker 6: jobs so farward? Is it still too early to look
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  Speaker 6: for that?
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  Speaker 7: Too early to look for that.
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  Speaker 5: But we did see evidence at AI as adding jobs
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  Speaker 5: because there were twenty two thousand construction jobs added, and
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  Speaker 5: about nineteen thousand of those were in areas adjacent to
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  Speaker 5: building AI, data centers, non residential construction, specialty contractors and
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  Speaker 5: things like that. And then you had another four to
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  Speaker 5: six thousand jobs in com and semiconductor manufacturing. So those
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  Speaker 5: were some of the positive areas in this job's report
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  Speaker 5: and they're definitely linked to AI. But too early to say, well,
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  Speaker 5: I didn't look at the actually jobs for stockbrokers, but
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  Speaker 5: too early to say that AI is having a big
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  Speaker 5: effect on them.
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  Speaker 3: Rest secs just keep it going this weekend.
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  Speaker 7: Every day. I say they can't keep this up and up,
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  Speaker 7: but they do.
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  Speaker 3: They do.
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  Speaker 5: It reminds me of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid
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  Speaker 5: when they're looking back at the Pinkerton Detectives saying, who
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  Speaker 5: are these guys?
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  Speaker 2: We do it's amazing to see. It's gonna just has
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  Speaker 2: been a joy, joy, joy of the summer. Bloomberg on
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  Speaker 2: a well, Bloomberg Money on a Friday, And I'll tell
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  Speaker 2: you it's hot out there?
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  Speaker 3: Is it ninety today? It feels like yesterday was Boomer?
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  Speaker 6: I know it's I mean, this is these are the
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  Speaker 6: dog days and August.
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  Speaker 3: It's truly the dog days of August.
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  Speaker 2: And we're going to try to do Is there some
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  Speaker 2: good conversation here about personal finance, about retirement and about
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  Speaker 2: you know, everything out there in Wells Man.
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  Speaker 3: Here's what you need to know.
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  Speaker 2: Meredith Whitney knows it's about baseball. In baseball, you go
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  Speaker 2: up to the plate and two thirds of the time
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  Speaker 2: you go back to the dugout. She has enjoyed over
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  Speaker 2: the years a few times of putting the ball in
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: play definitive and finance in banking. She still Meredith Whitney's
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  Speaker 2: advisory group today.
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  Speaker 3: What was it like the acclaim you had I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to call it fifteen or twenty years ago.
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  Speaker 2: How did you handle just the day to day the
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: boom of Meredith Whitney, municipal finance and banking.
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  Speaker 3: How do you handle it day to day?
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  Speaker 9: It was really awkward because you know, my world had
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  Speaker 9: been really small, covering banks and financials, and I loved it.
• 8:42
  Speaker 9: So people within the industry knew who I was and
• 8:44
  Speaker 9: I had great relationships, and then all of a sudden,
• 8:46
  Speaker 9: there was so much more attention focused on me, and
• 8:49
  Speaker 9: it's very it's uncomfortable. I wasn't used to it. I
• 8:54
  Speaker 9: can't imagine how you guys are get used to it.
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  Speaker 2: You know it was but you comfortly decided what you
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: and Sally Crawchuk were path breaking on, which is actually
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: doing securities analysis. And then it got so much bigger
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: than that. Let's show one of the huge Meredith Whitney's successes.
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  Speaker 2: You got to play, You got to put the ball
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  Speaker 2: in play, and then you have to have the courage
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  Speaker 2: to hold on.
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  Speaker 3: I was in a meeting with Meredith ages ago.
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  Speaker 2: I could barely shave at the time, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: there we were and she says, this company, Visa, it'll
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  Speaker 2: work out. When did you sell Visa? When did you
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  Speaker 2: get out? How did you not sell Visa?
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  Speaker 9: I mean, it's just been you know, back then it
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  Speaker 9: was just you know, cash to credit. There was this
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  Speaker 9: huge tailwind to it. And also it was like I
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  Speaker 9: call it a da mutualization from the from the bank,
• 9:43
  Speaker 9: so it was it was a straight arrow.
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  Speaker 10: It was one of the easier ones.
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  Speaker 9: And I call it the og of fintech because it
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  Speaker 9: was really one of the first FinTechs. Now, after the
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  Speaker 9: Financial crisis, the FinTechs became a real thing and dissarn
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  Speaker 9: intermediate a lot of the things that the banks weren't
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  Speaker 9: only to do because they had PTSD from the financial crisis.
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  Speaker 6: You say, Visa, I think about credit cards, and I know, Meredith,
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  Speaker 6: you track consumer credit as a way to gauge the
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  Speaker 6: health of consumer spending and therefore the broader economy. Your
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  Speaker 6: view is that it's become increasingly more valuable because of
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  Speaker 6: the way that people use credit cards. They're visas now
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  Speaker 6: as opposed to five or ten years ago.
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  Speaker 1: What does that look like.
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  Speaker 9: Well, what's happened is post financial crisis, the banks pulled
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  Speaker 9: back dramatically from near prime and subprime, so they had
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  Speaker 9: all sorts of exposure. Wells was a big subprime lender,
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  Speaker 9: and so all of that has moved into the shadow
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  Speaker 9: banking s. It's maybe companies like that, we're famously subprime,
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  Speaker 9: like Capital One has pulled way back and has focused
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  Speaker 9: on prime. So instead of revolving balances, people are spending
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  Speaker 9: and paying back monthly. Now the balances don't reflect that
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  Speaker 9: they grow, but they're growing at the place of inflation.
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  Speaker 9: And so what I look at is being a very
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  Speaker 9: good guide for where inflation is. Gas prices peaked in
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  Speaker 9: like mid early early May. Credit card spending had already
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  Speaker 9: peaked in early April, so and you've seen credit card
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  Speaker 9: spending deccelerate from that time. And so these are just
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  Speaker 9: people spending, absorbing the higher prices and then just spending accordingly.
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  Speaker 9: So I think I think the FED should look at
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  Speaker 9: their own data. This is data that comes out weekly,
• 11:26
  Speaker 9: so you can see credit card balances and it's really helpful.
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  Speaker 9: So I think I think inflation is in a real mirror.
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  Speaker 6: So it's like a charge card as opposed to a
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  Speaker 6: credit card that you pay the ballance off of.
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  Speaker 10: That's exactly right, the charge plate right yourself.
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  Speaker 6: But that's also why all these big banks are chasing
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  Speaker 6: the higher income consumer. Everyone's coming out with their own
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  Speaker 6: premium credit card because the fees are so lucrative. I mean,
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  Speaker 6: there's an underserved population here of people who actually need
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  Speaker 6: credit cards but can't actually get it.
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  Speaker 9: Can't get it, and so what they're doing is they're
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  Speaker 9: going outside of the banking system, which means it's incredibly expensive.
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  Speaker 9: I say that people aren't living paycheck to paycheck, but
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  Speaker 9: payday to payday. So the fastest growing industry within fintech
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  Speaker 9: and financial services is advanced wage pay. So if you've
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  Speaker 9: worked two days, you can access for a fee, your
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  Speaker 9: wages for those two days. And what happens is people
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  Speaker 9: are using this service multiple times. Now, it was Dave
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  Speaker 9: and Chime that reported yesterday that was their fastest growing product.
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  Speaker 9: And so while on a two week basis it looks
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  Speaker 9: like a six and a half percent interest rate, but
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  Speaker 9: annualized that's over one.
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  Speaker 10: Hundred and sixty percent.
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  Speaker 9: People aren't using this product one time, they're using multiple It.
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  Speaker 2: Harkens back to our grandparents. It feels like it's almost,
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  Speaker 2: you know, depression kind of. It's not about fancy personal
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  Speaker 2: finance and retirement. It's about a tough time out there.
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  Speaker 2: We're trying to get to the next paycheck.
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  Speaker 10: That's exactly right.
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  Speaker 9: So there was a study done in February that two
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  Speaker 9: thirds of people working are living paycheck to paycheck and
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  Speaker 9: a quarter of of labor ports participants are struggling to
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  Speaker 9: pay their bills. And so what they're doing is they're
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  Speaker 9: going to pawn shops, they're doing payday earned wage access
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  Speaker 9: borrowing and there, or they're tapping into for the subprime
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  Speaker 9: in near prime. They can't even get home equity loans.
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  Speaker 9: So this is a fright a feast.
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  Speaker 2: Well, this is the courage yet over decades, you know,
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  Speaker 2: talking about the two Americas out there help me out
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  Speaker 2: as a stereotype of James Diamond of a small bank
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  Speaker 2: on Park Avenue and buy now and pay later. I
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  Speaker 2: mean to me, it's almost a revolution where the kids
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  Speaker 2: aren't using the charge cards like they used to in
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: our personal finance. Does affirm in those kind of companies,
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  Speaker 2: do they win?
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  Speaker 9: I think the buy now, pay later replace the credit card.
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  Speaker 9: And what I never saw coming was the fact that
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  Speaker 9: the merchants are paying the fees right there, you know,
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  Speaker 9: they're paying a firm, they're paying and so what happened
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  Speaker 9: in twenty ten, and not to get to technical, but the.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Card at Friday, don't get technical.
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  Speaker 9: When we were in college, we got solicited by every
• 14:03
  Speaker 9: credit card out there. When we graduated, we had credit
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  Speaker 9: card debt. In twenty ten that changed, So unless you've
• 14:09
  Speaker 9: got a co signed by your parent, if you were
• 14:12
  Speaker 9: under twenty one.
• 14:12
  Speaker 10: You couldn't get a credit card.
• 14:14
  Speaker 9: So this generation of Gen Z and younger millennials aren't
• 14:18
  Speaker 9: used to revolving credit, so they're they're actually buy now,
• 14:22
  Speaker 9: pay later is more appealing to them, even though sometimes
• 14:25
  Speaker 9: it's the same thing.
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: How do they set up a credit history? Then if
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: they eventually when they want to start becoming consumers in
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  Speaker 6: this economy and be able to apply for loans, they
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  Speaker 6: don't have a credit history.
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  Speaker 9: Though, that's exactly that's exactly right, because you're not even
• 14:36
  Speaker 9: if they're even if it's a high end high earners
• 14:39
  Speaker 9: and they're taking American Express, they're paying down their balance,
• 14:41
  Speaker 9: so you're exactly right, it's going to be harder for
• 14:43
  Speaker 9: them to get a PRESD.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I think of you and the Klan. I'm going to
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: pick on Mike Mayo. We all love to pick on
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Mike Mayo. Great analysts out there, you people said they
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: get through the Great Financial Crisis and think we should
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: own the banks as part of our retirement. Give us
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: an update now on where you think in the next
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: ten years those successful investments, where do they go.
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  Speaker 9: Well, it used to be the case that the banks
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  Speaker 9: paid rich dividends. That hasn't been the case. So banks
• 15:09
  Speaker 9: have been buying back shares at really high valuations, which
• 15:12
  Speaker 9: is not a creative for the banks. And they've been
• 15:15
  Speaker 9: reticent to raise dividends because they don't know how long
• 15:19
  Speaker 9: this you know, this great earning, you know bonanza that
• 15:23
  Speaker 9: the banks are in is going to last. So I
• 15:26
  Speaker 9: think they're better vehicles to buy outside of the banks
• 15:30
  Speaker 9: that have rich, rich dividend yields. In retirement, you can
• 15:34
  Speaker 9: have both rich equities that i've rich dividen yields.
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  Speaker 10: Bonds are less certain.
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  Speaker 9: The sixty forty portfolio hasn't been, you know, a great
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  Speaker 9: performer the last year.
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  Speaker 10: But I think banks, you know, Jamie.
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  Speaker 9: Sorry, JP Morgan is an absolute outlier. I mean, they've
• 15:52
  Speaker 9: had since two thousand and ten, they've just been a
• 15:56
  Speaker 9: juggernaut and that's been a great stock. But they bought
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  Speaker 9: back the most amount of shares of any of the banks.
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  Speaker 6: Twenty years ago. Banks were what tech was in terms
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: of concentration in the market. I mean, they were the
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  Speaker 6: giants and then now it's all tech firms and banks
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  Speaker 6: are kind of like, you know, middle of the road.
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  Speaker 3: Can you see Meredith and the golf course. It'd be
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: like a terror.
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  Speaker 6: You've made some big calls on banks on munis in
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: your career on Wall Street. What's your personal approach to
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: investing these days.
• 16:23
  Speaker 9: I've always been thematic with my part I didn't own
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: the banks back then, thank goodness, because I was covering
• 16:30
  Speaker 9: them and I just felt.
• 16:31
  Speaker 10: There was always a conflict of interest.
• 16:32
  Speaker 9: But I always take long term thematic approaches to my investing.
• 16:38
  Speaker 9: So I'll give you a couple of examples, you know,
• 16:41
  Speaker 9: the winners and the losers. With the Housing bill, the
• 16:45
  Speaker 9: affordable Housing twenty first century road to Housing. I bought Sky,
• 16:49
  Speaker 9: which is Champion Homes, which is a manufactured home builder,
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: and the idea is that they repealed a chassis law,
• 17:00
  Speaker 9: things would change, that production would increase dramatically, And manufacturer
• 17:04
  Speaker 9: homes are really nice. They're not the manufactured homes of yesteryear.
• 17:09
  Speaker 9: So by that I've done, I do front some some
• 17:14
  Speaker 9: frontier investing in terms of with.
• 17:16
  Speaker 10: Uh uh uh uh.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Certain markets, geographical market.
• 17:21
  Speaker 9: To me well, with a lot of the stands which
• 17:25
  Speaker 9: have very rich, rare earth minerals, so that a lot
• 17:30
  Speaker 9: of that is going sees uh private to public companies
• 17:35
  Speaker 9: know that sort of esoteric ic, but those have been
• 17:37
  Speaker 9: good plays and they're emerging will be bigger plays, all.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Right, So a commodity play there.
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: And then from Meredith Whitney, thank you so much for
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: joining us, by the way, you really appreciate. Meredith Whitney,
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: CEO of Meredith Whitney Advisory Group, coming up a conversation
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: with David Kelly with a focus on personal finance, retirement
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: and wealth management, disiness Bloomberg Money.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: On a Bloomberg Money on a Friday, And I'll tell
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: you it's hot out there.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Is it ninety today? It feels like yesterday was brutal.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I know it's I mean, this is these are the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: dog days longest.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: It's truly the dog days of August.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: And we're going to try to do is there some
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: good conversation here about personal finance, about retirement and about
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: you know, everything out there in Wilson Management.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: Here's what you need to know.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Meredith Whitney knows it's about baseball. In baseball, you go
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: up to the plate and two thirds of the.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Time you go back to the dugout.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: She has enjoyed over the years a few times of
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: putting the ball in play definitive and finance in banking.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: She'sill Meredith Whitney's advisory group today.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: What was it like the acclaim you had I'm going
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: to call it fifteen or twenty years ago.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: How did you handle just the day to day the
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: boom of Meredith Whitney, municipal finance and banking.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: How do you handle it day to day?
• 18:55
  Speaker 9: It was really awkward because you know, my world had
• 18:58
  Speaker 9: been really small, covering banks and financials, and I loved it.
• 19:03
  Speaker 9: So people within the industry knew who I was and
• 19:05
  Speaker 9: I had great relationships, and then all of a sudden,
• 19:07
  Speaker 9: there was so much more attention focused on me, and
• 19:10
  Speaker 9: it's very it's it's uncomfortable. I wasn't used to it.
• 19:14
  Speaker 9: I can't imagine how you guys get used to it.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: You know, it was it was comfortly decided what you
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: and Sally Crawchuk were path breaking on, which is actually
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: doing securities analysis, and then it got so much bigger
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: than that. Let's show one of the huge Meredith Whitney's successes.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: You got to play, You got to put the ball
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: in play, and then you have to have the courage
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: to hold on. I was in a meeting with Meredith
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: ages ago. I could barely shave at the time, and
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: you know, there we were and she says, this company, Visa,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: it'll work out. When did you sell Visa? When did
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: you get out? How did you not sell Visa?
• 19:51
  Speaker 9: I mean, it's just been you know, back then it
• 19:54
  Speaker 9: was just you know, cash to credit. There was this
• 19:57
  Speaker 9: huge tailwind to it. And also it was like I
• 20:01
  Speaker 9: call it a DTA mutualization from the bank, so it
• 20:05
  Speaker 9: was a straight arrow.
• 20:06
  Speaker 10: It was one of the easier ones. And I call
• 20:07
  Speaker 10: it the OG.
• 20:09
  Speaker 9: Of fintech because it was really one of the first FinTechs. Now,
• 20:12
  Speaker 9: after the financial crisis, the FinTechs became a real thing,
• 20:17
  Speaker 9: and dissarn intermediated a lot of the things that banks
• 20:20
  Speaker 9: weren't willing to do because they had PTSD from the
• 20:22
  Speaker 9: financial crisis.
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: You say Visa, I think about credit cards, and I know, Meredith,
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: you track consumer credit as a way to gauge the
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: health of consumer spending and therefore the broader economy. Your
• 20:34
  Speaker 6: view is that it's become increasingly more valuable because of
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: the way that people use credit cards. They're visas now
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: as opposed to five or ten years ago.
• 20:42
  Speaker 9: What does that look like, Well, what's happened is post
• 20:45
  Speaker 9: financial crisis, the banks pulled back dramatically from near prime
• 20:49
  Speaker 9: and subprime, so they had all sorts of exposure. Wells
• 20:52
  Speaker 9: was a big subprime lender, and so all of that
• 20:56
  Speaker 9: has moved into the shadow banking s. It's maybe companies
• 20:59
  Speaker 9: like that were we're famously subprime, like Capital One, has
• 21:02
  Speaker 9: pulled way back and has focused on prime. So instead
• 21:05
  Speaker 9: of revolving balances, people are spending and paying back monthly.
• 21:09
  Speaker 9: Now the balances don't reflect that they grow, but they're
• 21:13
  Speaker 9: growing at the place of inflation. And so what I
• 21:16
  Speaker 9: look at is being a very good guide for where
• 21:19
  Speaker 9: inflation is. And when gas prices peaked in like mid
• 21:28
  Speaker 9: early early May, credit card spending had already peaked in
• 21:32
  Speaker 9: early April, so and you've seen credit card spending accelerate
• 21:35
  Speaker 9: from that time. And so these are just people spending,
• 21:38
  Speaker 9: absorbing the higher prices and then just spending accordingly. So
• 21:42
  Speaker 9: I think I think the FED should look at their
• 21:44
  Speaker 9: own data. This is data that comes out weekly, so
• 21:46
  Speaker 9: you can see credit card balances and it's really helpful.
• 21:49
  Speaker 10: So I think I think inflation is in a real mirror.
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: So it's like a charge card as opposed to a
• 21:55
  Speaker 6: credit card that you pay the balance off of.
• 21:57
  Speaker 10: That's exactly right, the charge plate yourself.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: But that's also why.
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: All these big banks are chasing the higher income consumer.
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: Everyone's coming out with their own premium credit card because
• 22:06
  Speaker 6: the fees are so lucrative. I mean, there's an underserved
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: population here of people who actually need credit cards but
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: can't actually get it.
• 22:13
  Speaker 9: Can't get it, and so what they're doing is they're
• 22:14
  Speaker 9: going outside of the banking system, which means it's incredibly expensive.
• 22:19
  Speaker 9: I say that people aren't living paycheck to paycheck, but
• 22:22
  Speaker 9: payday to payday. So the fastest growing industry within fintech
• 22:26
  Speaker 9: and financial services.
• 22:27
  Speaker 10: Is advanced wage pay.
• 22:29
  Speaker 9: So if you've worked two days, you can access for
• 22:33
  Speaker 9: a fee, your.
• 22:35
  Speaker 10: Wages for those two days.
• 22:37
  Speaker 9: And what happens is people are using this service multiple times.
• 22:41
  Speaker 10: Now.
• 22:42
  Speaker 9: It was Dave and Chime that reported yesterday it was
• 22:44
  Speaker 9: their fastest growing product. And so while on a two
• 22:47
  Speaker 9: week basis, it looks like a six and a half
• 22:49
  Speaker 9: percent interest rate, but annualized that's over one hundred and
• 22:53
  Speaker 9: sixty percent. People aren't using this product one time, they're
• 22:55
  Speaker 9: using it multiple.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: It hard comes back to our grandparents. It feels like
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: it's almost you know, depression kind of. It's not about
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: fancy personal finance and retirement. It's about a tough time
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: out there. We're trying to get to the next paycheck.
• 23:07
  Speaker 10: That's exactly right.
• 23:08
  Speaker 9: So there was a study done in February that two
• 23:13
  Speaker 9: thirds of people working are living paycheck to paycheck and
• 23:18
  Speaker 9: a quarter of labor porce participants are struggling to pay
• 23:24
  Speaker 9: their bills. And so what they're doing is they're going
• 23:26
  Speaker 9: to pawn shops, they're doing payday earned wage access borrowing,
• 23:32
  Speaker 9: and or they're tapping into for the subprime in near prime.
• 23:37
  Speaker 9: They can't even get home equity loans. So this is
• 23:40
  Speaker 9: a fright, a feast.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the courage yet over decades, you know,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: talking about the two Americas out there help me out
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: as a stereotype of James Diamond of a small bank
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: on Park Avenue, and by now and pay later, I
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: mean to me, it's almost a revolution where the kids
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: aren't using the charge cards like they used to in
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: our personal finance. Does a firm in those kind of companies.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Do they win?
• 24:03
  Speaker 9: I think the buy now, pay later replace the credit card.
• 24:06
  Speaker 9: And what what I never saw coming was the fact
• 24:08
  Speaker 9: that the merchants are paying the fees right, they're you know,
• 24:12
  Speaker 9: they're paying a firm.
• 24:13
  Speaker 10: They're paying.
• 24:14
  Speaker 9: And so what happened in twenty ten, and not to
• 24:16
  Speaker 9: get to technical, but the.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Card out Friday, don't get technical.
• 24:21
  Speaker 9: When we were in college, we got solicited by every
• 24:24
  Speaker 9: credit card out there. When we graduated, we had credit
• 24:26
  Speaker 9: card debt. In twenty ten that changed so unless you
• 24:30
  Speaker 9: got a co signed by your parent, if you were
• 24:32
  Speaker 9: under twenty one, you couldn't get a credit card. So
• 24:34
  Speaker 9: this generation of Gen Z and younger millennials aren't used
• 24:39
  Speaker 9: to revolving credit, so they're they're actually buy now, pay
• 24:43
  Speaker 9: later is more appealing to them, even though sometimes it's
• 24:46
  Speaker 9: the same thing.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: How do they set up a credit history?
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: Then if they eventually when they want to start becoming
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: consumers in this economy and be able to apply for loans,
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: they don't have a credit history.
• 24:55
  Speaker 9: Though that's exactly that's exactly right, because you're not even
• 24:57
  Speaker 9: if they're even if it's a high end, high earners
• 24:59
  Speaker 9: and they're the American Express. They're paying down their balance,
• 25:02
  Speaker 9: so you're exactly right, it's going to be harder for
• 25:04
  Speaker 9: them to get a proud I think of you.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: And the Klan. I'm going to pick on Mike Mayo.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: We all love to pick on Mike Mayo.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Great analysts out there, you people said they get through
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: the Great Financial Crisis and think we should own the
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: banks as part of our retirement. Give us an update
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: now on where you think in the next ten years
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: those successful investments, where do they go?
• 25:22
  Speaker 9: Well, it used to be the case that the banks
• 25:26
  Speaker 9: paid rich dividends. That hasn't been the case. So banks
• 25:29
  Speaker 9: have been buying back shares at really high valuations, which
• 25:33
  Speaker 9: is not a creative for the for the banks, and
• 25:35
  Speaker 9: they've been reticent to raise dividends because they don't know
• 25:38
  Speaker 9: how long this you know, this great earning, you know
• 25:43
  Speaker 9: bonanza that the banks are in is going to last.
• 25:45
  Speaker 9: So I think they're better vehicles to buy outside of
• 25:49
  Speaker 9: the banks that have rich, rich dividend yields.
• 25:54
  Speaker 10: In retirement.
• 25:54
  Speaker 9: You can have both rich equities that I've rich dividen
• 25:58
  Speaker 9: in yields.
• 25:59
  Speaker 10: Bonds are less.
• 26:00
  Speaker 9: Certain the sixty forty portfolio hasn't been, you know, a
• 26:04
  Speaker 9: great performer the last year. But I think Banks, you
• 26:07
  Speaker 9: know Jamie sorry, JP Morgan is an absolute outlier. I
• 26:12
  Speaker 9: mean they've had since two thousand and ten, they've just
• 26:16
  Speaker 9: been a juggernaut and that's been a great stock. But
• 26:19
  Speaker 9: they bought back the most amount of shares of any
• 26:22
  Speaker 9: of the banks.
• 26:22
  Speaker 6: Twenty years ago. Banks were what tech was in terms
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: of concentration in the market. I mean, they were the giants,
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: and then now it's all tech firms and banks are
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: kind of like, you know, middle of the road.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Can you see Meredith and the golf course, it'd be
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: like a terror.
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: You made some big calls on banks on unis in
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: your career on Wall Street. What's your personal approach to
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: investing these days.
• 26:43
  Speaker 9: I've always been thematic with my part. I didn't own
• 26:46
  Speaker 9: the banks back then, thank goodness, because I was covering
• 26:50
  Speaker 9: them and I just felt there was always a conflict
• 26:52
  Speaker 9: of interest.
• 26:53
  Speaker 10: But I always take.
• 26:54
  Speaker 9: Long term thematic approaches to my investing. So I'll give
• 26:59
  Speaker 9: you a couple of examples. You know, the winners and
• 27:02
  Speaker 9: the and the losers with the housing bill, the affordable
• 27:06
  Speaker 9: housing twenty first century road to housing. I bought Sky,
• 27:10
  Speaker 9: which is Champion Homes, which is a manufactured uh home builder,
• 27:14
  Speaker 9: and uh the idea is that they repealed a chassis law. Uh,
• 27:20
  Speaker 9: things would change, that production would increase dramatically. And manufactured
• 27:25
  Speaker 9: homes are really nice. They're not the manufactured homes of yesteryear.
• 27:30
  Speaker 10: So by that I've done, I.
• 27:33
  Speaker 9: Do front some some frontier investing in terms of with
• 27:37
  Speaker 9: uh uh uh uh.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Uh certain markets. Do your graphical market to me well,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: with a.
• 27:43
  Speaker 9: Lot of the stands which have very rich rare earth minerals,
• 27:49
  Speaker 9: so that a lot of that is going sees uh
• 27:52
  Speaker 9: private to public of companies know that sort of esoteric terek.
• 27:57
  Speaker 9: But those have been good place and they're emerging will
• 28:00
  Speaker 9: be bigger plays, all.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Right, so a commodity play there.
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: And then from Meredith Whitney, thank you so much for
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: joining us, by the way, really appreciate it. Meredith Whitney,
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: CEO of Meredith Whitney Advisory Group, coming up a conversation
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: with David Kelly with a focus on personal finance, retirement
• 28:13
  Speaker 6: and wealth management.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Money.
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: Bloomberg money is about making and investing your money, but
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: it's also about spending it, and a lot of people
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: like spending it on golf, both watching and playing it.
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: Professional golf only caught the attention of golfers for decades,
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: but over the last five years it's become kind of
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: a soap opera. Bloomberg Senior Business of Sports reporter Randall
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: Williams joins us out and Randall. I go to the
• 28:40
  Speaker 6: idea that for people in the US, professional golf was
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: equal to the PGA Tour. But then you had Live Golf,
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: which was funded by the Saudi Arabians, popping up as
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: a competitor. And then at some point the two decided
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: on a merger. But then I don't think anything happened.
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: What's the latest or what has happened.
• 28:57
  Speaker 11: Well, it's been on an indefinite pause, but the PGA
• 29:00
  Speaker 11: Tour has evolved since then. Of course Live Golf entered.
• 29:03
  Speaker 11: It caused a lot of chaos. But then you had
• 29:05
  Speaker 11: the Strategic Sports Group that's backed by Fenway's Sports Group
• 29:09
  Speaker 11: is backed by Steve Cohen, who's the Mets owner, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 11: then you have Arthur Blank who's the Falcon's owner. Them
• 29:13
  Speaker 11: and a lot more people put up to three billion
• 29:15
  Speaker 11: dollars into the PGA Tour, which created a for profit
• 29:18
  Speaker 11: arm called the PGA Tour Enterprises. Since then, the PGA
• 29:22
  Speaker 11: Tour has been slowly trying to i'd say, recalibrate itself,
• 29:26
  Speaker 11: to get on the right track, to evolve, to fill
• 29:29
  Speaker 11: in some of the holes that maybe live golf exposed.
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: What were some of the holes that live golf exposed,
• 29:34
  Speaker 6: Because golf had a bit of a renaissance during the pandemic.
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: Up until that point, a lot of people criticize it
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: for being hard, elitist, expensive, but then golf like found
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: itself during the pandemic.
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: Well, I'd say that.
• 29:45
  Speaker 11: Golf is very traditionalist sport, and so with tradition, there's
• 29:48
  Speaker 11: always tradition versus innovation. And so of course you had
• 29:52
  Speaker 11: some people complaining about player pay, you had people complaining
• 29:54
  Speaker 11: about the tournament schedule. And so now we have a
• 29:58
  Speaker 11: bunch of innovations that are opening in regards to the
• 30:02
  Speaker 11: system of golfer is going to be a championship series
• 30:04
  Speaker 11: and then a challenger series, and that's how the changes
• 30:07
  Speaker 11: of come.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: What do you see TV doing here?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Masters is iconic and all that, but
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: in terms of the entertainment TV streaming battle. Are they
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: going to be a huge bidding war from where you said.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 30:18
  Speaker 11: I think we're a couple of years away from that.
• 30:20
  Speaker 11: But media rights are of course a huge part of
• 30:22
  Speaker 11: the sports business, and if you're not in the media
• 30:23
  Speaker 11: rights business, then your sport probably isn't going to last
• 30:26
  Speaker 11: very long. And the PGA Tour is still the dominant
• 30:28
  Speaker 11: presence in golf. I think live. The threat of Live
• 30:31
  Speaker 11: came from the Saudi's who had seemingly limitless pockets.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Now that that is not in.
• 30:36
  Speaker 11: Existence anymore, the PGA Tours again once again the dominant
• 30:40
  Speaker 11: franchise that I think broadcasters are going to be bidding up.
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, with Saudi Arabia pulling is funding from that other
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: golf league. Thank you so much, Bloom we'k si your
• 30:47
  Speaker 6: business of sports reporter Randall Williams joining us now, I'm
• 30:50
  Speaker 6: pleased to say, is the CEO the new CEO of
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: the PGA Tour, Brian. Roll up, Brian, Great to see
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: you here.
• 30:56
  Speaker 7: Great to see you.
• 30:56
  Speaker 6: So we just talked about how golf is for the traditionalists.
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: A lot of people like to say it's the sport
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: most like life because it's hard, but it's also kind
• 31:04
  Speaker 6: of elitist and kind of expensive.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Coming from the NFL, do you see.
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: Those as features to be protected or barriers to growth
• 31:11
  Speaker 6: that should be challenged.
• 31:13
  Speaker 12: Well, I think any sport, professional sport that's worth its
• 31:18
  Speaker 12: salt will always sort of challenge where it is. And
• 31:21
  Speaker 12: I think there's one thing I learned at the NFL
• 31:23
  Speaker 12: over two decades is you know, if you're not going forwards,
• 31:25
  Speaker 12: you're going backwards in innovation matter. So when I first
• 31:28
  Speaker 12: took the job, I was very clear that we're going
• 31:30
  Speaker 12: to honor tradition, but we're not going.
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: To be overly bound by it.
• 31:32
  Speaker 12: And you look at some of the trends of the
• 31:34
  Speaker 12: game of golf, will as you say, maybe it has
• 31:37
  Speaker 12: this reputation as elitist.
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: If you look at the growth since COVID, participation in.
• 31:42
  Speaker 12: Golf in this country has grown thirty nine percent since COVID.
• 31:45
  Speaker 12: Now you don't have to play a sport to watch
• 31:48
  Speaker 12: it on television, but sure helps.
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: Half of that growth is under the age of twenty
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: or thirty five.
• 31:52
  Speaker 12: The average age of a professional tour telecast, inclusive of
• 31:55
  Speaker 12: the majors, is sixty six years old, so there is
• 31:58
  Speaker 12: a disconnect between where the sport is going and what
• 32:00
  Speaker 12: professional has been able to do. We are closing that
• 32:02
  Speaker 12: gap in significant ways, and if you just close that
• 32:04
  Speaker 12: gap to a minimum, you've got a bit of a
• 32:06
  Speaker 12: rocket ship.
• 32:07
  Speaker 6: You've talked about how Live Golf helped expose some of
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: the weaknesses of the tour, was the biggest lessons about
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: the economics of professional golf were about the product itself.
• 32:16
  Speaker 7: I think it's the product.
• 32:18
  Speaker 12: I think, listen, there's something about the sports industry I
• 32:21
  Speaker 12: don't understand. If you look at the history. Huge innovation
• 32:24
  Speaker 12: usually doesn't happen without a crisis. It could be a
• 32:27
  Speaker 12: labor dispute with a collectiborrodi and agreement. Back in my
• 32:29
  Speaker 12: old job, the USFL or the AFL NFL, when I
• 32:32
  Speaker 12: looked at this opportunity, I just saw the AFL NFL,
• 32:35
  Speaker 12: which essentially created a lot of systemic changes in professional
• 32:38
  Speaker 12: football that started to accelerate the growth.
• 32:40
  Speaker 7: I think we've had that moment here.
• 32:42
  Speaker 12: So I think a lot of perhaps shortcomings in professional
• 32:46
  Speaker 12: golf came with a little bit of competition, where all
• 32:49
  Speaker 12: Americans competition is a good thing. So I think we've
• 32:52
  Speaker 12: seen that and we're trying to build something that outlives
• 32:54
  Speaker 12: all of us here, What.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Did you learn from Pete Rosell? I mean it was
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: before your time.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: If we say, Pete Rosell invented all of this really
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: best practices as well. What is the if you're the
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Pete Roselle of golf, what do you need to do
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: to really jump start?
• 33:07
  Speaker 7: It's a really good question.
• 33:08
  Speaker 12: Pete Roselle, I think one thing he got.
• 33:10
  Speaker 7: I mean he was he was thirty four years old.
• 33:12
  Speaker 12: When he took a job, and I think I think
• 33:13
  Speaker 12: people realized that, but he he was the first one.
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: Who figured out media.
• 33:17
  Speaker 12: I think when it came to so the modern media
• 33:19
  Speaker 12: model that I think you see in the NFL that
• 33:21
  Speaker 12: I was a part of. But then I think other
• 33:23
  Speaker 12: sports have adopted, right, is if you get your media
• 33:27
  Speaker 12: model right, you can build a sport. So when he
• 33:29
  Speaker 12: started the NF, when he started working in the NFL,
• 33:30
  Speaker 12: it was probably the third most popular sport in the country,
• 33:33
  Speaker 12: behind professional baseball and college football. But because of a
• 33:37
  Speaker 12: reach model using network television, he built the sport and
• 33:39
  Speaker 12: told the stories. And so I think that's one thing
• 33:41
  Speaker 12: I've learned is how you know we're concentrated? How do
• 33:44
  Speaker 12: you increase the reach of the PGA Tour and how
• 33:46
  Speaker 12: do you tell more stories about the athlete to play it.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you got Ernie from El Tuna, Pennsylvania. You're
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: coming up the course, lightening it up decades decades decades ago.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I was at Rochester in nineteen sixty eight when Lee
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Trevino turned your sport upside down.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Who's your new Lee Trevino?
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: Well, listen, I think we have a lot of stars.
• 34:06
  Speaker 12: I think there's a misconception about professional golf that a
• 34:10
  Speaker 12: given competition or given tournament only matters if one or
• 34:13
  Speaker 12: two golfers are in it. When you actually look at
• 34:16
  Speaker 12: professional golf, the difference in winning a tournament and losing
• 34:20
  Speaker 12: tournament is one stroke over four days. That type of
• 34:22
  Speaker 12: competitive parody, it's that tight. The only other place I've
• 34:25
  Speaker 12: seen that as in professional football. So the reality is
• 34:28
  Speaker 12: is we have a collection of some pretty amazing golfers.
• 34:31
  Speaker 12: Whether you take the established guys like Scotti, Shefflin, Rory McIlroy,
• 34:35
  Speaker 12: or you look at the Coyven kid who's just coming
• 34:37
  Speaker 12: out of Auburn and some of these younger guys who are.
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: Just really performing well.
• 34:42
  Speaker 12: I think we have an amazing roster of veterans and
• 34:45
  Speaker 12: young guys who are really really competitive. It's our job
• 34:48
  Speaker 12: to actually showcase them better.
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: Randa was talking to us about the PGA Tour Enterprises,
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: this commercial arm. Of course, FIFA wanted to follow the
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: tour's lead and spin off its own business, seek outside
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: investors that ended up failing. I'm curious to hear more
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: about the PGA Tour Enterprises and the role of it
• 35:06
  Speaker 6: in the PGA Tour overall. Is this something that the
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: players feel and experience? Is this something that the fans
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: feel and experience?
• 35:12
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think the answers both of them will. I
• 35:15
  Speaker 7: think the players experienced it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 12: Where what PGA Tour Enterprises has allowed us to do
• 35:19
  Speaker 12: is to evolve the PGA Tour where most professional sports
• 35:23
  Speaker 12: have gotten. We've actually capitalized it and turned it into
• 35:26
  Speaker 12: a commercial business. And the strength of that commercial business
• 35:29
  Speaker 12: funds innovation, It funds player purses and funds everything. I
• 35:33
  Speaker 12: think the PGA Tour was locked in a bit of
• 35:34
  Speaker 12: a legacy governance model. Now that the mission is clear,
• 35:38
  Speaker 12: now that we're capitalized, we can do that. So I
• 35:40
  Speaker 12: think the players will feel it, and that you look
• 35:43
  Speaker 12: at the new competitive model that we've announced there's healthy
• 35:45
  Speaker 12: persons across the board, and they can actually earn equity
• 35:49
  Speaker 12: in the tour. This is the only professional tour of
• 35:50
  Speaker 12: scale that I can think of. Players can actually earn equity,
• 35:54
  Speaker 12: which is a huge opportunity and also aligns investors, management
• 35:59
  Speaker 12: and players like know this for in the world. I
• 36:00
  Speaker 12: think the fans will feel it be because of that
• 36:03
  Speaker 12: commercial change to the tour. We have investment dollars to
• 36:07
  Speaker 12: make the fan experience better, to make the competitive product better,
• 36:10
  Speaker 12: to make the media product better. So I think that
• 36:13
  Speaker 12: is and I think it's one thing that came out
• 36:15
  Speaker 12: of this, this this live competition of crisis, is we
• 36:18
  Speaker 12: got focused, we got capitalized. Now we know what the
• 36:20
  Speaker 12: mission is and I think fans and players are going
• 36:22
  Speaker 12: to win because what.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Are you personally to do about slow play? There's no
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: other mean, Meredith Whitney was just done with us and
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: she's stand on the golf course lining up a five
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: foot putt for twenty minutes.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the answer is slow.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I mean the retires, we do personal finance, retirement, wealth management.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Everybody in retirement wants to play your sport four days
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: a week, but they can't because a stupid slow play
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: what do you do well.
• 36:44
  Speaker 12: I don't stay up a night worrying about slow play
• 36:46
  Speaker 12: among amateurs at their country club.
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: I actually don't care about that.
• 36:49
  Speaker 12: I only when I think about the PGA Tour professional golf.
• 36:54
  Speaker 12: I think it depends when we're talking about who you're
• 36:57
  Speaker 12: talking to when you talk about slow play and a
• 36:59
  Speaker 12: third Thursday or Friday round before the cut, when we
• 37:02
  Speaker 12: have one hundred and forty four players and it's early
• 37:04
  Speaker 12: in the year and we're racing against daylight to keep
• 37:06
  Speaker 12: this on television, we need to speak to us. We
• 37:08
  Speaker 12: need to when you're talking about a Sunday round or
• 37:11
  Speaker 12: a playoff and someone's taking extra to line up a shot,
• 37:15
  Speaker 12: because it's the shot of their life.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: That's different.
• 37:17
  Speaker 12: So I think context matters here. I also think it's
• 37:20
  Speaker 12: about how we produce the sport. So if you're watching
• 37:22
  Speaker 12: on television and somebody is actually standing over a put
• 37:25
  Speaker 12: a little longer, there's a thousand other shots going on
• 37:28
  Speaker 12: on the golf course. It's our job, and our broadcast
• 37:30
  Speaker 12: partners produce it better. I come from the NFL, where
• 37:32
  Speaker 12: we produce the Red Zone channel. The Red Zone channel
• 37:34
  Speaker 12: moved around. The fact of the matter is, is half
• 37:36
  Speaker 12: the time. When you go in to look at a
• 37:38
  Speaker 12: Cleveland game.
• 37:39
  Speaker 7: It's not live. It already happened.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: Roll it back.
• 37:40
  Speaker 12: I think we can produce it better and actually tell
• 37:43
  Speaker 12: a better story. So it's a complex issue. But I'm
• 37:45
  Speaker 12: not really focused on your local club. That's the local
• 37:47
  Speaker 12: club's problem. I'm really focused on the PGA Tour.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Can you do a red zone version of the PGA Tour?
• 37:52
  Speaker 12: I think, I think we're talking about a lot of innovation,
• 37:54
  Speaker 12: but if you think about how golf is produced already,
• 37:56
  Speaker 12: it is a little bit of red zone here Scarlett
• 37:58
  Speaker 12: on the eighteenth green, let's take a look.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Let's go over here.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: At asked do you need a hydration break? I mean,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: please tell me if the ninth hole a hydration break
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: was a Jenny Kremel. But that's the story here. What
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: are you going to do about a hydration break to
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: bring in a marginal million?
• 38:13
  Speaker 7: Well, no comment on that.
• 38:15
  Speaker 12: I'll ask the FIFA guys on that.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: I don't have a view on that.
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: Well, having said that, I mean, I'm sure you watch
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: the World Cup. Are there any learnings from the World Cup,
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: the spectacle that was a World Cup that you can
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: apply to pro golf.
• 38:26
  Speaker 12: I just think in general, I think the World Cup
• 38:31
  Speaker 12: or what we're doing, whether sports are doing, it's a
• 38:34
  Speaker 12: reminder that the value of sports is increasing in a
• 38:38
  Speaker 12: world that is continually fragmented, whether it's by media so
• 38:43
  Speaker 12: much competition for your attention. There's a handful of things
• 38:45
  Speaker 12: that are standing out that can aggregate tens of millions
• 38:48
  Speaker 12: of people at one time doing one thing, and I
• 38:50
  Speaker 12: think it's it's sports and maybe some news. So I
• 38:54
  Speaker 12: think that is encouraging. If you're in the sports business now,
• 38:59
  Speaker 12: you know, it does mean you can rest on your laurels.
• 39:01
  Speaker 12: It means you need to innovate and keep up with
• 39:02
  Speaker 12: the chaming demographics of the sports fan. But I think
• 39:05
  Speaker 12: if the world operating has taught us is that sports
• 39:07
  Speaker 12: is a pretty strong investment class.
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: Okay, when you innovate, especially when it comes to media distribution,
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: you guess the point where fans are left confused. We
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: have a Bloomberg News story about how sports fans are
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: looking at two thousand dollars streaming bills in order to
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: follow their favorite team. Has it gone too far to
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: the point where fans will start rebelling and.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: It won't work anymore? And we have to kind of
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: rethink this.
• 39:27
  Speaker 12: Well, if fans are rebelling in sports, we haven't seen
• 39:30
  Speaker 12: it yet. But I think the larger question is, while
• 39:33
  Speaker 12: I'm a big believer that in order to build a
• 39:36
  Speaker 12: sport and the value proposition of sports and media is reach,
• 39:40
  Speaker 12: how many people can you reach?
• 39:41
  Speaker 7: How can you aggregate audience? That is still true. Pete
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: Rosell got that right, That is still the case.
• 39:46
  Speaker 12: The difference is reach is much more complicated because of
• 39:49
  Speaker 12: where the media world is.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I going to slip this in you a gift us
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: to get Florida State. I think he's fourteen. I don't
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: think you can drive a car, Miles Russell. Okay, what
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: do you do with the property? Like Miles Russell fifteen?
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I think fifteen to sixteen years old.
• 40:02
  Speaker 12: Well, I think what you're going to see is when
• 40:04
  Speaker 12: we announce our new competitive model, which if you study,
• 40:08
  Speaker 12: what we've done is we've opened up the meritocracy of
• 40:10
  Speaker 12: the PGA Tour. We've created a Championship series, which is
• 40:13
  Speaker 12: the top twenty three events or so, where the top
• 40:16
  Speaker 12: hundred twenty golfers are going to compete together weekend and
• 40:18
  Speaker 12: week out.
• 40:20
  Speaker 7: They can't play.
• 40:20
  Speaker 12: Down into the Challenger Series, which is for everybody else.
• 40:23
  Speaker 12: They will compete for a regular season title that will
• 40:27
  Speaker 12: be the most precious, prestigious thing in golf. There'll also
• 40:30
  Speaker 12: be promotion relegation, so at the end of that you're
• 40:32
  Speaker 12: going to be relegated down. My point is we've opened
• 40:35
  Speaker 12: up the meritocracy, so if he's that good, we have
• 40:38
  Speaker 12: now created a system where he will work his way
• 40:40
  Speaker 12: in to be into the top top. No more sponsor exemptions,
• 40:44
  Speaker 12: no one of the stuff that hid in the meritocracy.
• 40:47
  Speaker 12: Where you play is based on how you earned it
• 40:49
  Speaker 12: in the play, So I think that's.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Important, Brian.
• 40:51
  Speaker 6: At some point Lebron James will have a lot of
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: free time, and we know that he's been playing a
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: lot of golf and he is an investor in pj
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: Tor enterprises. Have you talked to mister James about some
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: kind of role for him in professional golf? I don't know,
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: some kind of ambassadorial role, No, I haven't.
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: But I think I think.
• 41:05
  Speaker 12: I think Lebron James is an example of the growth
• 41:09
  Speaker 12: of the sport. Like when people get the bug, they
• 41:12
  Speaker 12: get the bug, and and it's a great competitive sport
• 41:16
  Speaker 12: to play but also to watch, and so we love
• 41:19
  Speaker 12: Lebron to be more involved. We love everyone to be
• 41:21
  Speaker 12: more involved, and I think you're going to see more
• 41:23
  Speaker 12: of that over time.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Brian, thank you so much for your time today.
• 41:25
  Speaker 7: Thank you great to have you in with us.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Brian roll up, the new CEO of the PGA Tour.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Should you see Lebron on the sand trap and nobody
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: else had seen and he's just looking.
• 41:34
  Speaker 12: Right over it and those deep bunkers on the links
• 41:38
  Speaker 12: court and see it's good send advantage.
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: It's very cool to say that would make a very
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: interesting red zone version of PJ Tour.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I find you've put that all together.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: I'm excited about what I heard here.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you know, they're really with the
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: adversity of the last couple of years, really getting their
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: act together.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: You know it's a big subject in terms of everyone
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: spending all their time playing golf golf and spending money
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: on streaming.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: It was an honor here to interview Lee Trevino a
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: number of years ago, but just seared in my memory.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: I caddied it was like four bags a day. Really, Yeah.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: I caddied Oakhel where you had a wonderful tournament couple
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: years ago.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: It was great it was. It was a real learning
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: experience least.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast, bringing you a smart
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: look at the forces shaping your financial life.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: I'm Tim Keen with Scarlet Food.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: You can watch the show live on Bloomberg TV every
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Friday at noon Wall Street Time. Subscribe to the podcast
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen, and as always,
• 42:44
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• 42:44
  Speaker 3: The Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.