Latest / Cards & Categories / Ep. 114 : Best World Series Ever?

Transcript

Ep. 114 : Best World Series Ever? · Cards & Categories

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome ever by to episode one fourteen of
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Cards and Categories. I am Mike cool Ard from Rasball,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: joined as always by my very good friend Jeremy Brewer,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: also from Rasball. Thanks for taking some time out of
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: this World Series run to record a podcast with me.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: We are recording on October twenty ninth. Game five is
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: happening right now. We just saw the back to back
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: homers that Blake Snell gave up before we started this podcast.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: So how are you doing, buddy? You got one eye
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: on the game, one eye on this podcast?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, I've got to get the game cast on
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: my phone in front of me, so I'm pantent. I'm
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: not watching the game live, and I will have to
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: admit I've been really annoyed by Twitter during the World
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Series because I'm watching on Hulu and I'm like ten
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: seconds behind the actual game, and so if I Twitter
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: notifications on I usually get told what happens in the game.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: It happened tonight Vladdie Junior hit a home run before
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: he was even up to bat on ice streams. I
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: had to mute on Twitter so that I can actually
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: watch the World Series and not have it ruined. But
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: otherwise it's been it's been fantastic, so I'm excited to
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: talk about tonight.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Yep, I've got one fix for you. You can quit Twitter,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: so I guess I'm still there. I'm not fully divested,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it's been a long time since I've been there.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, We've got a little bit of a show
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: on the fly, I think set up for you because
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: originally we had slated this. We had lots of great
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: releases coming from Tops in preparation for the holiday season.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: We have Tops Allen and Ginter twenty twenty five coming
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: out on Monday, November third. That was supposed to be
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: our main topic for this podcast, but lo and behold
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: just kind of like we were doing last week with holiday.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Tops has not released a checklist yet, so we don't
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: really have anything to go off of. We could speculate,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and I can guarantee you it's going to be a
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: lot of the same shenanigans and chicanery that we get
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: from Allen and Ginter this year, but we don't know
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: exactly what's in that set, so we're saving it for
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: next week. This week, we figured we just kind of
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: touched on what has happened, so far in the World Series.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Like I said, we're recording this during Game five live
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: right now, so you might get some reactions on the
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: fly there. But we've had some great games to kick
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: off the World Series, and then we're going to get
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit into not only as Alan Ginter a
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: little bit off the rails for Tops, but other things
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: are starting to really shuffle in that schedule as there's
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of things happening over at Tops and Fanatics
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: that I think we can get into and discuss. So
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: let's get back to that World Series first, because Wow,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: those first four games were something else. I think maybe
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: we can just kind of go game by game and
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: discuss them just because the first three, especially, like we
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: had so much going on, lots of bits of history
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: that got made in and out of those games, including
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: an absolute marathon. So we're not even gonna kick that
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: off with where we're gonna start. That's how Indian tweet
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: this podcast is. We're just gonna go all the way
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: from the beginning. Let's start with Game one. This was
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: won by the Blue Jays in Toronto and they had
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: a big nine run inning that really kind of put
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: them over the top against Blake Snell, and maybe they
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: have figured out something with Blake Snell. I did wonder
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: that in Game one. You know that this team has
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: seen a lot of him when he was with Tampa,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and I wonder if that is playing a part here
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: as Snell is struggling in a second straight start against
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: these Blue Jays. But the thing that really stood out
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: to me in Game one in that nine run inning
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: was an as In Barger pinch hit home run, the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: first one ever in the World Series from Barger. And
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I mean it's been a standout World Series and Playoff
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: run for Barger overall. As we're speaking right now. Before
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Game five, his line for the postseason was three twenty
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: seven three eighty nine, five point fifty one slash line.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: That's a one sixty three WRC plus, came with three
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: homers and fifty four plate appearances. Great k rate, great
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: walk rate. He's looked like the star that we especially
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: we're looking forward to because we couldn't start stop talking
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: about him this year for Fantasy.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's looked looked great and I think you know
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: he's got a great power stroke that this played through.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: He's picked up positions and I think you and I
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: talked about this early before going to the postseason of
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: like there's gonna be a guy, there's gonna be a
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: role player who makes a big impact. He's gonna be
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: a young guy just in the fringe, and we're not
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: quite sure who's gonna be. And I think it's been
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Addison Barger. Don't get me wrong. There's other guys like
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Ernie Clement's actually done really well, Like you know, we
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: can talk about Will Klein for fun, but like there's
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: been there's been a lot of guys. But I think
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Barger is the guy that really really stood out. And
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I think what was what was fun for me is
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: you know, we talked about it from a card collecting perspective.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I held this story for you because I went to
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: a card show this last weekend on Friday night. Uh
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: And so I went and I was about to leave
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: the show, I found one more table, went through the
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: box and I found an Addison Barger Rookie auto prism
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: for I want to say. It was a three dollars card.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Three dollars card, and like, like we're in the world
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: series here, I got to pick this up, like it's
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: it's it's kind of a no brainer. Like nothing can
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: go wrong. So I got home, I put that thing
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: on on eBay for like twenty bucks, like you know,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: put it for a reasonable price, and headed out for
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: the night. I was over at some friends watching the
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: game and Barger hits this grand Slam and this is,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: you know, probably two hours after I bought this card,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and my phone buzzes with him three minutes with an
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: offer and within five minutes with the card sold, Like
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: it was that fast. And the mediate that Barger sit
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: the Grand Slam, my phone's going off, and I'm like,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: we are absolutely right when there is always a guy
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: every year that his card values are gonna go through
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the roof just because what he can do on the
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: biggest stage, and I Barger seems to be it. And
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: to your point, I think there's a lot of a
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: lot of talent in this guy long term.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I love the profile. It is a
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: It's one of those savant pages two that is beat
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: red where you know, except for maybe some of the
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: chase and whiff in k percentage walk percentage where I mean,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what you expect out of a young
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: bat like this, who you know, this is only his
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: second year in the league and the first go around
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four was a learning experience for Asen Barger,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: so you expect the plate discipline to develop for a
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: couple more years and kind of peek in his late twenties.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot to love in this
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: profile that you've seen what the Blue Jays have done
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: in terms of trusting him with right field. We'll get
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: into it a little bit and in Game three that
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, this dude's got an absolute cannon, so he's
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: gonna stand out and make plays, and he's really pop
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: amongst the Blue Jays faithful, So I'm glad you're able
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: to jump in on that investment for Barger. If you
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: want to go back, that was actually episode one oh
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: eight when we discussed that Barger was one of the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: guys where we both were kind of like could not
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: wait to put him at the top of the list
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: because I think they both wanted to discuss him. I mean,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: some of the other guys have had had decent postseasons
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: but were out quick and so they were not necessarily
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: going to have the same upward trajectory Barger had. But
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: we're also if you want to go back to that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: episode talk Japanese stars with Munataka Murakami in there and
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Kazuma Okamoto who just was recently said to have been
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: posted so or will be posted. So there's lots of
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: good insights there in terms of how to invest for
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: this offseason. So check out episode one oh eight. All right,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: that's going to rap us for game one there, So
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: let's move on to game two because I think if
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: there's somebody else, maybe we should have gone back and
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: put into that one oh eight discussion. But he already
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: had a hot market coming off of a great year.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Was Yoshiobo Yamamoto that second straight complete game, and it
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: got better as he went on in that contest too,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: which is so rare to see. It's something that you
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: only see out of like really true aces. I think
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: in my mind, you know, Max Scher's are in his prime,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Clayton Kershaw on his prime, justin Verlander and his prime,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: and Yamamoto did it on the biggest stage where he
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: sat down. I think, what was it like twenty straight
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: batters I don't have in front of me, but it
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: was around there. And the fastball, even though it is
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: only ninety six you, I mean, the spin is devilish.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: It's so good and so I saw the guys on
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: CBS Fantasy today we're arguing, is Yamamoto maybe the number
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: four Fantasy pitcher going into twenty twenty six, like he's
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: certainly climbing the ranks. Where is he probably in the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: mix for you? Because Yamamoto is turning into just a
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: supreme star for with fantasy, real life, and card collecting
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: at this point too. If if the Dodgers do pull
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: off this World Series win, it's going to really cause
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: his market to shoot through the roof.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I mean I probably I'm not. I
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: haven't looked at what I'm gonna kind of rank for
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the pitching next year, but I he's easily in my
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: top ten. He's probably probably saying guessing some of the
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: six to eight range for me. I do think that
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: he's going to continue to be challenged from the Dodgers
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: being such a good team that they are not like
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: they're letting the rains off them in the postseason. You know,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: they are getting everything out of them, and they're they're
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: fine with it. They're going to continue to treat him
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: relatively with kid gloves during the season because they want
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: to keep him healthy. They want to do that, and
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: so he did not go as deep into games throughout
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: the regular season as you want them. Therefore, he didn't
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: win as many games. He was only twelve and eighth
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: this year, even though he had a two forty ninety RA.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: They just didn't let him deep into games as as
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: you would like to see. So I think that's going
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to hold him back a little bit from like the
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: upper upper shalon of guys. You know, he did get
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: started to go a little bit later in games late
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: in the season, but it did seem like they were
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: bathing him at times, and I'm not sure that that's
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: gonna gonna fully slow down. And so for a guy
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: at the top five, like I want two hundred innings
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: at least, and that's that's what you have to assume.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: And it's not like, uh, you know, Moto isn't gonna
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: be a you know, number one starter for teams. But
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: a guy that pitched started thirty games and got one
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: hundred and seventy three innings, like that's that's a guy
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you're starting every week, but just not capitalizing on the full,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: full counting stats that you want. So nothing against him,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I think he's supremely talented. His talent should be top five.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I think this situation for him is going to be
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: a challenge, and I think the Dodgers have also ridden
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: that arm a decent amount of this playoffs, and we
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: have seen the past guys that get ridden hard in
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: the playoffs like this, they don't always kick back the
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: next year as well as you would like him to be.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: So it'll be interesting to see what happens. I think,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: because it was he was even warming up in the
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: in the games week that we're going to talk about,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: so like there there's definitely been some stress on that
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: at ARM this this postseason. So he was fantastic, looked fantastic.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: It looked to be to me, it felt like an
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: absolute turning point in the series. At the time. It
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: felt like it was like, Okay, Blue Jays, you came
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: in and you did your thing. Game one. Don't forget
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: who we are, like this is the Dodgers. Things have
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: changed a little since then, so we'll get into that.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: But it was a very incredible performance from me on
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the moto.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so just to give a little context on
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: his fantasy season for twenty twenty five, went twelve to
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: eight with a two forty nine ERA two hundred and
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: one strikeouts in one hundred and seventy three and two
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: thirds innings came with a very nice point ninety nine
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: whip and that cocked in to make him the number
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: ten overall starting pitcher on our Player Rader on ras Ball,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I think you're probably right, though I think six to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: eight is probably the right range. Four is a little
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: rich for me. The top three I think is pretty
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: set between Crochet, Scooble, and Schemes. You're not going to
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: crack that top three, and certainly I think you can
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: make arguments to shuffle those guys around as you want.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: But then I think kind of the four and five
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: for me are more of probably Christopher Sanchez and Hunter Brown.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: For me personally, those guys finished eighth and ninth in
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: our Player Raider four through seven, where Brian Wu, Carlos Rodan,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Freddie Peralta, and Max Freed. I think Yamamoto and Max
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Freed are right there, so I'm actually probably that would
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: make Yamamoto my sixth because I think I'd rather have
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: them freed. I just don't like the history of the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: injuries for Max Freed and being in Yankee Stadium can
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: always kind of go awry. So yeah, I mean I
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: think that that plants the flag as number six for
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: me for Yamamoto. Does that sound about right when you
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: think about sixty eight.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds about right because I think's where you
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: getting this really interesting conversation about guys like show Hey,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the talents there is incredible, and I think it fits
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: into the same dynamic that I just talked about. Honestly,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler, the news has been really really good on him,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and you know, if healthy, he could arguably be in
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: that same range. So I think that there's gonna be
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: a number of guys that are really really considered looking
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: in there. But I'm with you, like Hunter Brown definitely
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: towards the top of my list there, and I think
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that there's gonna be other guys that we can, you know,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: we can realistically kind of slot in. You know, I've
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: no idea what you want to call with, you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: like a Spencer Strider next year coming back, Like I
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: could have him all the way from like seven to
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: like thirty. So you know, Joe Ryan jumps up there
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: for me as well. And so I think there's a
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: few that you could see playing that ball game. But yeah,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's again, it's that six to eight.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Just feel it feels right for him, and I don't
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: feel like there's a whole lot of risk in that profile.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty pretty high floor, but the ceilings
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: not because the innings is not as crazy as it
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: is with some of these other guys.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm right there. Maybe the only
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: other one that would be in the mix for me
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: is actually to Grom. We didn't discuss de Grom there,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and I mean he will be turning thirty eight next summer.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: But he looked really great down the stretch, I think
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: for the Rangers, especially after he kind of went through,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you know, some spurts where the Rangers didn't quite trust him,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and they really opened him up a little bit more
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: in the second half. So I could see de Graam
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: being right in that mix too, that people are never
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: going to quit him.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I thought you'd bring your boy Logan Webb in.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, yeah, I mean you want to talk,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: you want to talk high floor, low ceiling. I mean,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Logan web is the archetype right there, So.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well let's move on to that game three, because wow,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: what a game. Eighteen innings on a Monday night. I
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: made it through eleven. Well, I've flown back from Buffalo
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: earlier in the day, and yeah, it was exhausted. So
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I was semi on East Coast time, and it was
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: it was like it was a great game, and it
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: just like I could see where it was shaping up.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: And I didn't know if I had like fourteen or
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: fifteen ine me definitely would not have had eighteen in
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: me because the game ended just around two am Central
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: time three am Eastern midnight on the West Coast. Obviously,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: six hours and thirty nine minutes to complete the entire game,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: which you compared to that twenty eighteen marathon that the
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Dodgers also played in Also when eighteen innings, this game
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: was about an hour shorter than that one. So it's
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: like that shows what the pitch clock has done to
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: be able to speed things up, as well as the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: three batter minimum. But there was a lot that happened
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: because obviously they played two games between the Dodgers and
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the Blue Jays. I'm going to open it up to you,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: where do you want to start, because there's lots of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: little nuggets to talk about in this Dodgers win from
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Game three.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to start with a few of the
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: small luggs. First of all, I made it through twelve things,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: and I don't really remember much of the twelfth. I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: think I was in and out. But yeah, that was
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that was a wake up the next morning. And see
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: the eighteen, it's like, well, I'm glad I didn't try
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: to stick that one through because I was. I was
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: trying to, but I I don't think mine was for
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: lack of effort. I just I just fell asleep. But
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: you know, I want to start with a few little things.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: There's some there's some big things here, but you know,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: we've talked about a little bit fore with some of
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: the early series, and I I wonder if the Blue
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Jays outmanaged themselves in this game. And I don't know
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: if you felt that, but I, as I was kind
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: of watching the game, I think it was when Boba
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Schett got pulled for ike ak Ik f Isaiah Kenner
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Falaffa as a pinch runner. And I can't remember where
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: that was, like the seventh or eighth inning or something
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: like that, And I'm like, it just feels a little
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: too early to be pulling your clean up hitter with
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I think that at the time they had maybe a
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: one run lead, and I get it trying to add
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: that extra run, but like it felt like throughout the
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: game they kept trying to do the extra things, and
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you ended up replacing Baschett, Kirk and Barger and Springer,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: but a little bit different on the Springer, but you
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: you really downgraded your lineup through that, and they constantly
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: threw out those extra innings threatened, threatened, and then got
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: in a situation where Miles Straw was over over four,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: uh Tyler Heinemann for Kirk was over three, I k
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: f was over four and then uh ty Frantz and
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: David Schneider did did a little bit of damage there,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: and so it was like you really really undercut yourself
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: to to bring those runs in. So that really stood
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: out to me because I kind of saw it was
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: what was happening, like man, and then when they didn't capitalize,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: and I think the tenth and the eleventh when they
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: had like good opportunities, it was like, man, this this
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: is gonna be really tough to bring out. So that
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: one stood out to me. The other one I just
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: have to call it out Will Klein, the I don't
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: call it, you can't even call it him a journeyman,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: but like the last ditch effort, like nobody even knew
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: he was on the Dodgers roster for the World Series
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: type of thing. And you know, I think I read
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: an article because Climb went for four innings if I recall, yeah,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: four innings and gave up just a single hit with
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: five strikeouts and literally nothing in his career, like literally nothing.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: He was like the guy and the forty man that
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: they could bring on essentially, and he like this World Series,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: he was literally in for up duty only like if
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: something went wrong, that's what he was on the team, Uh,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: to take those bulk innings. He said he had I
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: think two hundred text messages as a result of that
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: outing that he had to work through because this was
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: so unexpected for him. And I think what Eastern Illinois grad.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: So I was gonna say that.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: But another guy in the the animals of Midwest, like
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: around US baseball history between went to Eastern born in
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: the wrong Bloomington in Bloomington, Indiana, so yeah, and also
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: played he played some ball in Danville during the summer.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: It looks like too. So he's been all over our territory.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's it's just a fun, fun little thing.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So I know I'm passing up all these big things,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: but those those on suck out to me. So I'm
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: toss back to you to cover maybe a few of
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: the bigger storylines. But I thought, I thought the the
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: blue Jays trying to play a little bit too to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: fancy and because when you look get the the Dodgers lineup,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: it like they pinch hit like twice, and it was
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: for guys that weren't hitting, and so it was it
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: was a lot of different dynamic there. Both bullpens were
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: emptied all that that kind of thing, which seems to
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: hurt the Dodgers a lot more than hurt the Blue Jays.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: But what were the big story lines that stuck out
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: to you?
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna I mean, you left all the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: nuggets on the table, because I did. I passed it
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: over to you and you did not go a direction
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I thought you would. I will tell you. In terms
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: of the Toronto managing, I think you are right, But
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's also on the bullpen side. You look
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: at the way that that John Schneider really rode those arms.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: I think if he had to go back, he really
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: should have used Bassett for longer. He only got one inning,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: eight pitches out of him, and he looked really good.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: That it was really basses looks fantastic the entire playoffs
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: he has.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was like it was shocking to me
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: that he took basket out right away to go to Hoffman,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: considering how shaky Hoffman has been here and there, and
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: then you just allowed a lot of those lefties that
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you needed to face Otani. Look at that Dodgers lineup
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: a lot in that game. Actually, I think the Dodgers
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: did well with their bullpen because they rode will Kline
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: for such a long time and Shehan for such a
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: long time where it's like, yeah, those guys are always
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: going to be in like a longish relief situation.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Kershaw got in with bases loaded and did his thing,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: which was impressive to walk away. So it I think
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: it will be really important as this this series goes on,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: because I mean, I think we're shaping up for probably
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: seven games the way that they're going back and forth,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and that bullpen usage might cost the Blue jays in
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the end. But yeah, let's get into some of those
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: other big things.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: The actual storylines that I completely ignored, like this, there's
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: this Otani guy. If you've heard of him, he's pretty good.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And they brought this up last night during the broadcast.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Is that you know Otani is just throughout these playoffs
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is constantly ending up in conversations and pictures, which is
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: like black and white dudes that like, you know, will
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: score super low on the macilk good for you, stuff
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: that hasn't happened in one hundred and twenty years. As
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: you know, in this contest, he put up four extra
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: base hits, which was which tied a record from I
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: believe nineteen oh seven is when it was first set.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: And then he also walked five times, so he reached
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: base nine times in this eighteen inning game. As he
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: got the Barry Bonds treatment, which is just absurd. I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: didn't think that any other player would get that. But
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: especially when O'tani hit that solo jacket in the seventh inning,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I was just like laughing. I was cackling because it
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: just looks so easy for him, and it isn't. It
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: does remind you of Barry bonds, where like there is
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: an expectation when Otani is sitting in the box that
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: it's going to be out of the park. I mean,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: obviously Game four is a little bit different, but he
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: as idling the fatigue of playing two games within Yeah,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and so three games actually because you know the nine
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: innings in total for game three, so there's a lot
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: going on. But I mean, and after that Game three
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: performance too, just when you thought that the market for
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Otani couldn't go any higher, couldn't engine higher, it has again.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: And so it has become really just crazy from the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: baseball card market watching the heights that this guy will reach.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Because at this point too, like this playoff run, more
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: than I think anything else that you could always had
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: like a little bit of lingering doubt whether Otani was
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the greatest mob player of all time, and there could
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: have been arguments, and even at this point, like athlete,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: like I think is even in Otani's bag that this
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: playoff run and season has just cemented like Otani is
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the best baseball player that ever has existed, And it's
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: going to be really hard to hurdle that. What do
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: you think?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to argue with you, but I don't
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: have an argu Like, it's it's hard to say that
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: because of all the amazing players that have come before him,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: but the things that he's able to do it has
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: just been incredible. You know, if you just the the
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: gain on base nine times a single game might not
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: even been the most impressive thing he's done in the
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: playoffs this year. Like it's you know, I don't know
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: what it is. It's the three home games. It's like
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: it's the pitching performances. Like he's he's just doing amazing things.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And every time you think he's like like we literally
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: had a conversation like two weeks ago, week and a
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: half ago that he had the best arguably the best
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: game in history, and this might have been better, like
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and so like, it's just unbelievable to see him doing
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: these things. Like last time a player got based nine
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: times in a game was like the forties or something
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: like that. I can't remember exactly what it was. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: it's just it's it's scary, and to your point, when
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: the Blue Jays are pitching to him, they absolutely know
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: that he can do this, and they're trying to avoid it,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: like the plague. They're not They're not like trying to
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: get him out. They're not being like, well there's nobody
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: on base, let me try to attack the hitter. They
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: are saying like, if I can get him to screw
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: up and half moyvie roll over him. If not, I'll
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: walk the guy. And then he still hits it out
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: of the park. That's that's what's so so gosharn impressive.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: He did just strike out in the game tonight, So
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: you know this is all for not like he's a
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: terrible player now, but I think it's just been so
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: incredible that he has had such an impact on this
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: entire series. It's not just been you know, a game
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: or or two like he has. You know, he has
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: carried the team on his back. And you know, arguably
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: even it will get to Game four when he pitched there, like, yeah,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: he gave up I think three runs, but like they
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: trod him out in the seventh inning after he played
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: eighteen and four. They probably just shouldn't have done that
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: in the first place. And the guy hasn't pitched much
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: this season, so like he was six innings of one
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: run ball after playing eighteen innings the night before. I
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: get it dhed different different dynamic, but it's it's still
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: it's just unbelievable stuff that he's doing.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just like it breaks your brain every time
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you're seeing it. And then of course that when the
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Dodgers won't they it was a walk off from Freddy
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Freeman where watching the highlights of it, it's really funny
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: because like people aren't really excited as much as they're
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: relieved that the game is finally over and then like
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: they can finally be let go from whatever jail they've
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: been locked into the purgatory of watching the game go on,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: which I mean, I wish it didn't go so like
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: so long into the next like morning, because if it
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: had been an afternoon game, I would have really dug
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: watching the entire game and getting into it. It's just
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: really refreshing seeing baseball without that zombie runner and letting
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: the pressure build and like just seeing the strategy behind it.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: It's so refreshing, you know.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I would say for the last few years with all
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: these rule changes, almost everyone that we've gone into with
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: like losing the DH to the pitch clock, to the
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: ghost runner, like whatever it may be, three batter rule
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: things like that. Every time I go into one of
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: the I'm like, I'm not sure about this, Like I
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: have to give maybe Man free credit here, Like it's
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: actually making me appreciate the playoff baseball more because like
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: you get to the playoffs, players are healthier games for
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: more reasonable time, like you're able to watch it. We're
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: not talking about these eighteen inning games between like the
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Royals and the White Sox and like who cared type
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: of thing. Sorry, Royals, that's probably insulting to them, not
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: the White Socks. But the the purity of that eighteen
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: inning game was something unbelievable in itself, just the fact
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: that it was that game and it could happen that way,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the same thing for that fifteen inning game that we
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: had earlier in the Al playoffs, Like it just made
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that mean so much more and so much more strategy
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: that went into it. So it was absolutely fun to watch.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: And heck, Freddy Freeman showing up again, showing up again,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: maybe can a big hit when when it counts. I
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: feel like Freddy Freeman has been so underrated since come
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: over to the Dodgers because he's he's got these other
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: big names around him, Like man, that guy can keep
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: still still hit.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and so I found the exact statistics that
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: we were both poking around for. In terms of show, hey, Aitani,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: the last player to do four extra base hits in
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: a game, and it's the only other one to do
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: it in the World Series with him is Frank Isabel
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: when in the nineteen oh six World Series for the
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: White Sox. I mean, of course we all had that,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: knew that right off the top of our head. And
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the guy who last reached nine bases nine times in
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a game it was also an eighteen nine game, Stan
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Hack for the Chicago cub Back in nineteen forty two.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Stan Hack actually died in Dixon, Illinois, So another central
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: like Illinois ish guy. He's buried over there outside of Dickson, Illinois,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: which I also love too because that goes down in
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: accounting history along with Inron in terms of like great
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: frauds of all time.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Look it up.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: It's great. Okay, Well, let's move on to game four.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I think we've probably got less to say unless there
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: was anything else on game three you still wanted to cover,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: because we didn't even get into some of the defensive
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: plays or anything else. But I figured I'm pretty game
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: threed out but if you've got something else to go through.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: No, Game three was an absolute classic. I when I
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: think so, it's funny the first like Game one was
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: a good, good game, Like it absolutely was, but it
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: felt like a normal World Series game. I almost feel
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: like Games two, three, and four and any other World
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Series would all have been the best games in the
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: World Series. And I don't know. I think Game three
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: obviously is the is the absolute classic. Motors Complete game
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: is fantastic. I Game four, though, I thought was it
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: was so interesting because of all the subplots of trying
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: to recover from that eighteen inning game, seeing what what
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: teams are gonna do? How long are you gonna ride
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: your pitchers or were you gonna bring another guy back on,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: you know, pitching three days in a row? It well,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I guess not three games three days in a row,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: but two days in a row. And like the momentum,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: like you just felt after the young most complete game
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: and the Dodgers winning in eighteen innings, like how demoralizing
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: that is for Toronto when you know, arguably they were
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: just you know, a one little hit away. They tried
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: to score multiple times. I kept getting thrown out at home,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: like they were just one little thing away from leading
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: that series two to one, and it almost felt ripped
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: from their hands, like you know, yeah, whoever won that
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: game deserved it. But Game four, to me has been
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: a kind of a turning point in the series because
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: the Blue Jays, they look like they didn't even play
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: an eighteen any game, like they there was a I
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: mean I heard like some of the anouncers saying they
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: were like jumping around the clubhouse, dancing around like it
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: was like nothing ever happened. They was just they were
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: just ready to go. And they absolutely jumped jumped the
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Dodgers in that game. And it's been a we haven't
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: really talked about it, but it's been kind of almost
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: a strategy, and we saw it in tonight's game. Game five.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: They have been aggressive early in the accounts and they
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: are they're making making the team pay, but they're also
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: not overdoing it. And I think that really showed up
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: in Game four, the number of like weird bloop hits
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: or fight them off type of things, like they're they
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: were not trying to over overdo it when it was
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: a single swing, but if there was a mistake, they
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: were jumping on it. So I opened that up for you.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: What's your thoughts on Game four. We're obviously the Blue
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Jays even the series.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Here, Yeah, I mean, I think Game four is if
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the Blue Jays win the World Series, Game four is
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: going to go down as a very defining moment for
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Vladimir Gerro Junior. I think that homer that he hit
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: off of Shoheyo Tani really I think lit a lot
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: of that fire beneath the Blue Jays to be able
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: to carry them through and give them the energy to
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: come off of that eighteen inag contest and close out
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Game four. It's just been an incredible playoff run for
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Vlad Junior as well. You know the lots of guys
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that have been uber hot, but I mean this guy
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: has been absolutely the hottest going into Game five in
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the playoffs four nineteen, five hundred eighth six slash lines.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: It's a two forty eight WRC plus seven homers, sixteen
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: sixteen runs scored, fourteen RBI in fifteen games, showing you
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: kind of what the peak Vlad looks like, and like
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: he is really gonna be a fascinating player I think
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: for Fantasy going forward and card collecting too. Like after
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I think a little bit of a lull in the
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: vlad Guerrero Junior market, which was otherworldly hot. I would
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: say in like twenty twenty, twenty nineteen, like this was
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: a guy where it was almost impossible to get your
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: hands on any of his rookie cards at a reasonable cost.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: They had really dipped in the past year or two.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: And now like, if he can lead the Blue Jays
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: to a World Series not a World Series MVP underneath
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: his belt, he's right back on the trajectory for a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame career. He's only twenty six years old
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: right now. He turns twenty seven. Oh, his birthday is
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: one day before my Pisces bro and so he turns
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: twenty seven in March, and so we might be getting
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: another solid eight years of production out of Vladimir Gerrero Junior.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: So it's always been there in terms of the underlying
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: stat cast data, and it's great to see it come
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: to fruition for flat. And you also do wonder like
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: if he sees in this performance like, oh, you know what,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: when I actually do dig in all the time, because
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: it does feel like sometimes he kind of just like
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: isn't going full force during the regular season, I would
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: say maybe if he sees like, hey, if I can
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: really step up and be a top three bat behind
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Judge and Otani in the entire league, I can carry
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: this team by myself. And so it's been really heartening
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to see what Vladimir Gerro Junior has done for the
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Blue Jays, and that really stood out to me in
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Game four.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, from everything from the
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: card market to what he's in this playoffs. What I
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: really appreciate with La Guerrero is he's continued to be
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: himself the entire his almost entire career, because he's he
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: has one flaw in his swing, and it is that
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: he doesn't elevate the ball. He is a line drive hitter.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: If you look at his savant page, everything is read
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: except for his launch angle sweet spot. And that's because
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: all he does is hit line drives and he and
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: that's a pure baseball hitter. He hits the ball hard,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: and his homers are generally misses, either the pitcher messed
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: up or he just got under the ball when he's
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: trying to hit a line drive. And that's such a
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: pure thing to do in baseball that he's not sold out. Now,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to see if he, you know, says, hey,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I can do a little more because this guy could
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: hit fifty or sixty homers. I don't have any question
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: about that. But that's not the player he is. I
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: don't And I think that's a choice. I think he's
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: made that he is going to be a guy that
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: tries to hit three twenty and do all the right things.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: He's not gonna, you know, steal one hundred bases or
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: anything like that. But he's just going to really really
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: contribute and make the most out of every pitch and
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: he's not going to sell out. And I think that's
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: fantastic to watch. And that means that when he gets
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: in these types of situations, he can absolutely dial things in.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: He he can you know, pull one out of the
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: park if he needs to, just like just like he did,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: you know in game five. Here, I think there's a
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: lot to be said in this profile. And I think
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: you're absolutely right. He's on a you know, potentially Hall
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: of Fame career path here. And if he can just
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: keep kind of doing in this this profile, it's not
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: it's it's age as well, absolutely age as well, and
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: he can absolutely be. You know, we could be talking
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: about a four hundred bat, four hundred homer bat that
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: you know, hit two eighty five through his career, three
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: thousand hits something like that. Like, it's not unreasonable to
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: see him hit those marks and having a World Series
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: win like this, And I argue probably an MVP on that.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: He's he's definitely in the running for World Series MVP
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: if they win it, and you know, hitt him sweat
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: seven homers in the in the playof Also, yeah, not
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: too shabby.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Either, Yeah, exactly, And I mean he's already got that
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: goofy m VP. Oh no, I guess he didn't win
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: that might am I remembering the pandemic wrong? I am? Yes,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: he got second place in the MVP behind Aaron Jakes
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: that year. That's right.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Actually, he's a Home Run Derby champ and he's got
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: a gold Glove.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking, m VP of the Home
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Run Derby. He did ALCS MVP of course, Yes, fantastic
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: profile going forward. Not gonna leap Nick Kurtz for number
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: one first baseman and fantasy for me next year, But
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: that's for fantasy.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fantasy is a tough one for Vlad because he's
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: never going to He's gonna even struggle to crack the
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: first round just because he doesn't have the speed. And
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: we've talked about how important that is in the next year,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: going going forward, and so he's a solid second rounder
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Yep, I think so too. Okay, Well, Game five as
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: we're speaking, it is now in the fourth inning. It's
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: three to one Blue Jays as Enrique Hernandez hit a
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: solo homer and then Ernie Clement, your boy, added a
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: sac fly. Although I will say, go back to the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: alas previews, I was the Erminy Clement boy until I
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: kind of solad on him halfway through the season. He
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: he's coming through though. So let's get into some of
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: the news and notes that we have elsewhere all around
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: the league. And it's just one because I've been peppering
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: you with this question. It feels like for the past
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: ever since this podcast has really started, we've got another
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: new manager change, and usually your response is pretty much verbatim.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Makes no difference to me. Maybe I'll watch it a
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: little bit to see and maybe some on bases will
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: be like the bigger thing, But a lot of the
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: strategy in baseball is not dictated by the manager anymore,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and a lot of the stuff that managers do is
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: so behind the scenes in terms of people management, motivation,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: day and time stuff that it's really hard to see
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: their impact. And a lot more of what you're seeing
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: in terms of lineup construction, coaching, even just decisions in
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: the bullpen and stuff is actually coming from the front
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: office and being filter through the manager. I think I've
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: got one that might finally throw you for a loop,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: that I might get a different answer from you and
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: maybe something a little deeper analysis here. In terms of
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: the San Francisco Giants have hired former Tennessee coach Tony Vittello,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: who won the College World Series in twenty twenty four
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: with the club, has coached many minor leaguers or many
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: major leaguers that have come through that system now. In
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: terms of the biggest ones recently have been Chase Dolander,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Liam Doyle who was drafted this year. Christian Moore was
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: on that team last year, and so this is a
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: guy who was at the top of college baseball at
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: University of Tennessee made big bucks, so across the Giants
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of money Buster Posey had to open the
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: first books to be able to bring Vattello in to
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: San Francisco. But Vittello's also does not have any background
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball, wasn't ever in the miners, wasn't
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: ever in any sort of like coaching instructional role. Has
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: come up solely through the college baseball game, which is
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: really it's pretty unique. It's really much like the first
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: time it's really ever happened in terms of that path
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: for a manager without having any seasoning in the majors
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: or minor leagues. And so there we go. There there's
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: the different angle. I finally found one for a manager.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Do you think that actually impacts any of the San
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Francisco Giants going forward, especially from a fantasy value, anyone
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: that you think might have tweaks and value go up
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: and down because of this hiring of Tony Vittello.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you have to look at the younger
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: guys on the Giants team. And so we're talking like
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: the Bryce Eldridge, Luis Mato's, you know, he Halo Elo Ramos,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: maybe even the bullpen in the rotation, you know, like
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: a land group guys like that that are still kind
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: of in that coachable early in their career path. Like,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's gonna make a big difference for
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: a Matt Chapman or Raffie Devers or anything thing like that.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: That said, you know, from what I've read and looked
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: at with the Tello is he he is a much
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: more of a clubhouse presence and a motivator and getting
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: the most out of players. And that's really I think
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: what we've seen is in some of the players, the
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: managers that have separated themselves over the last few years
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: have been those guys that get the most out of it.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: It's not the guys that have the most you know,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: unique coaching ability and whatnot, Like you hire a staff
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: to do that. You hire guys that are smarter than
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: you on all the pitch metrics. Like it's not like
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: it was once was, where you don't have all this
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: data and things like that, and it's just like look
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: and feel and scout and you're just trying to, you know,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: give some pointers here and there. Like the manager truly
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: is about bringing a team together, motivating guys, helping them
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: feel connected and stay in the right mindset the whole season.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: And it seems like that's rarely where Vittello has has
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: really made his mark and built built teams together. Now
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: the question will be around, like where what does the
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: rest of the team the coaching staff look like around him? Uh,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: But I do think he has a potential to have
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: an outsized impact on the younger core of that Giant's
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: team because I think he's going to connect with them well,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I think he actually believe I think at least one
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: of them, Drew Gilbert is actually like was one of
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: his players, and so it'll be interesting to see. I
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: think there's a few of them, uh that that were
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: and so will be interesting to see how that plays.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: But I think, you know, my general stance still applies,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: like I don't generally think a manager has a huge,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: huge impact, but I think I think you're right there.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: This one has the potential, uh, because of the unique
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: skills that he has in coaching and building relationships and
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: what and what's so different in college when you have constant,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: constant turnover on teams, it's not the same guys every time,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: but you have to continually make that up, whereas even
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: in the majors, you're keeping the same guys generally that
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: core for years is a slower turnover. Like if he's
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: able to do that in college and bring guys together,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: it would be interesting to see if you can do
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: that in the majors. And that's what gives you a
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: little bit more so I'm intrigued. Yeah, I'm still gonna
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: call it a watch. But I like, if I were
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: to pick one guy on the on the Giants next
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: year that I think that he could really do something
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: for It's be like Bryce Eleridge. I think that's gonna
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: be the kind of guy that's going to respond and
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: you know, all of a sudden just go bananas because
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: he feels at home, he feels supported, and you know
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: you're getting the most out of him.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think you hit a lot of
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the points of I think where Vattello could make a
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: big impact on this team. I think the one thing
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I would add is I don't know, We'll see. Like
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Tennessee has been known as a pitching kind of powerhouse,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: regeneration factory, almost the way that the Rays are in
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, but the volunteers are for college. And
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: you gotta if Botello can copy and paste any of
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: that magic lookout because there's a lot of really raw
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: arms in the San Francisco organization between like you know,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Hayden bird Song played, Tidwell, Mason Black, Carson wizen Hunt,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Carson Seymour even that, Like.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Are you calling a Robbie Ray renaissance?
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, another renaissance, like a third renaissance for him.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: But like I mean, you kind of touched on it
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: with landon Route. But I mean there's a track record
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: of especially guys who have made the major leagues that
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: have come out of Tennessee. Liam Doyle's one of them,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: was very mid at Coast Carolina and University of Mississippi
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: came to Tennessee. ACE, Chase Burns actually started at Tennessee,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: was developed there. I think, took a lot of things,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: got a better opportunity at Wake Forest pretty much at ACE.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Now Chase Dollander, the same thing happened there. He was
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: pretty mid at Georgia Southern when he went there, transferred Tennessee.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: They formed him into the Chase Dollander we know and
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: don't love right now because he's on the Rockies. But
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: first round text right there. But I mean there you
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: just go through these Tennessee rosters. There's arm arm after
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: arm that's like that. And so if Attello can bring
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: some of that to the Giants, like I said, lookout,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: because I think that's the one thing that the Giants
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: need to click to kind of reach that Dodger's sort
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: of level in terms of operation. And you can see
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: the New York METSA started to do it, and so
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: if you can do this as a major market team,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: it really just changes the entire game aim of how
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: you have to spend your payroll.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I think you're right because if you do look at
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: the like that rotation and bullpen, it is not intimidating.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, you get, we have an off season and
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: see what the things that they do, but kind of
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: where's projected right now, like it is not something to
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: be terribly terribly afraid of going to the next season.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: So if that's where he has a chance to make
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: an impact and he can do that, then you know
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: that's a good offense already. It'll be fun to see
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: if they can they can make a name, because you've
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: got to do something different out in San Francisco with
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: the with the Padres, with the Dodgers claiming that division
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: time and time again.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's move into the Baseball Card News and
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Notes section because we've got a few things to talk
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: about in terms of First, let's hit on TOPS holiday
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: because if you are ripping some of it, it's still
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: coming out, because especially on tops dot Com, they still
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: have advent calendars available, and they have some of those
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: like ornament box sets available. They don't have any of
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: the value boxes, but you should be able to find
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: value boxes that Walmarts and Targets and hobby Box or
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: hobby stores too, so those would be released in batches.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: We were running into the situation last week where we
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: didn't have great insight to the checklist, and especially given
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: all the short prints and variations that are always in
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: holiday and tiny variations, we knew there'd v stuff that
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: came out and I found one of them. So last week,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: if you go back to that pod and listen to
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: the TOPS Holiday overview, you'll notice that we couldn't quite
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: figure out what one of the parallels was with the
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: holiday backs. It's a there's a holiday back kind of
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: like insert where I think it's like roughly twenty or
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: twenty five cards from the main set have these special
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: holiday backs where the normal back is like a blue
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: dark blue background. The holiday backs have a little Christmas
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: cookie in the upper left hand corner, red and green theme.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: There's a short print version which we were finding everywhere
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: on eBay last week and being listed incorrectly. Is the
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: SSP the super short print version, which we couldn't quite
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: distinguish it. Finally found it. It popped up on Reddit
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: going to the show notes to look at this. If
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: you are trying to distinguish between the short print and
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: the super the super short print of those holiday backs
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: is a thin line at the top of the card.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: It's green on the short print, it's candy cane print
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: on the super short print, so.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: On the back of the card exactly.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Also, I mean just putting it out there because the
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: I mean the short print is one in every seven
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: im packs, the super short print one in every six
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: hundred packs. This one's gonna be lost in so many
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: dollar boxes. So if you do find these holiday backs
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: when you're sorting through stacks of cards at trade, at shows,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: at wherever you're going, look at them, because if you
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: find especially like the Otani one, the Roki Sasaki one,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: the James Wood one, there are gonna be some pretty
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: big chase cards that people if they're gonna want to
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: put together the whole rainbow or set of the holiday cards,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: they're gonna want these, and they're not easy to find.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I when I saw this, I was like, yep,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: the like I'm gonna do some EVA search late at night. Right.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: It's it's there is not a chance in the world
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: people realize what they have here because this card. I'm
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: sure because you open the box, they're probably turned around
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: or whatnot in the pack. You turn over up it's
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: got this holiday back and move on like you. That is,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: it is so minute that unless you are comparing two
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: cards next to each other and looking closely at the
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: one design element, you will not catch this. And I
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you know, that might actually bring the value down a
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: little bit because I think some folks will kind of
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: see a little bit of a too of a gimmick.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: But there's the rarity factor. It does not matter. One
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: in six hundred packs is going to just drive folks
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: nuts and they're gonna want to have this because it
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: is a little gimmicky and so so yeah, this is
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: gonna be one that you search for. And I guarantee
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: these things will be floating out all over the place
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: all the time because people don't do not know what they.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Have, Yes, so keep that back or keep that in
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: mind and round that out if you're going back and
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: listening to our TOPS Holiday overview from last week. And
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: then let's get into some of the calendar discussion on
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the upcoming releases for baseball card sets, because we had
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: a little bit of shuffling, and like I introed with,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: there's a very little details, very few details on a
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: lot of these sets, when usually we would have plenty
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: of checklists and hype and other things that would have
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: been out for weeks for some of these sets, because
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: they're pretty big sets, big favorites out there in the
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: hobby and it's been practically nothing. So on Monday, November three,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: we've got Allen and Ginter hitting shelves. That would be
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: a pretty wide release too, that be in retail and
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: hobby shop environments. But we are sitting here on October
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: twenty ninth, have no checklist, Well we have a checklist, No, no, no,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: we don't. I was thinking TOPS update, no checklist, no details.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: And this is another set like Holiday, tons of variations,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: tons of gimmicks, tons of chase cards, and if you
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: don't know what you're hunting for on release day, wow,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: it's it's impossible to know what you're holding.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, I don't know if I even
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: believe it's gonna actually hit eleven three like it it
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: very well well might not. It'll it'll be interesting to
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: see this actually shipped out in time.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because what's last time you saw a baseball
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: card release on a Monday.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: It's usually in.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: The week, so yeah, it's usually Wednesday or Fridays. So yeah,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: that's I agree that I don't know if that's coming
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: out on Monday. If there are details and stuff that
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: come out, we will cover it in next week's podcast
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: because the other thing that we have been trying to
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: shift around, they've delayed TOPS Update twenty twenty five to
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: November twelfth, which it was originally supposed to be out
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: this week. Then we were going to talk about it,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: but then they pushed it back a little bit last week.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: And we do have a checklist there, so at least
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: you can go on tops dot com see the checklist.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: No odds yet, so you don't know the odds of
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: like what some of the inserts and short prints are
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: and then the other kind of interesting thing is that
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: they've pushed back. If you pre ordered Tops Update on
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Tops dot com, you're gonna get your product two weeks
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: after the release date of when this is hitting hobby
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: shop shelves, and maybe you retail. I don't know, we'll
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: have to see on the retail side, but what a disaster,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: especially when you're looking at something like Update that is
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: chalk full of rookies. You're gonna if you're getting your
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: stuff two weeks after release date when the peak value
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: is and it's a race to getting your stuff listened
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: on eBay, you could be really caught holding the bag
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: on this set because there are lots of hot rookies,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: but it fizzles out pretty quick. And the downside that
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: we've talked about with Tops Update in the past, go
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: back to our other pods on previous Tops updates, is
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: that sure, lots of rookies, but also lots of relievers
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and weird players that got traded at the trade deadline,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: and just guys who are totally uncollectible. So what are
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: your thoughts here, because this is a real big way
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: to piss off a bunch of hobby collectors out there.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely agree, because I you know, I've had
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: full plans on buying probably the jumbo box of Tops update.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't get in the pre order just because I'm
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: mostly lazy, and you know I was, I know, the
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: local hobby shop had it. I know the prices is
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: gonna be maybe you know, ten twenty bucks more than
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: you know getting off of Tops website, but I'm not
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: paying you know, the all the shipping and you know
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: they build the tax and so it probably ends up
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: being all the same. And I was gonna was tomorrow
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: that it came out. Wasn't today today? Yeah, And so
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I was gonna go just grab one and you know,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: rip it. And I was just shocked when I saw
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I got moved back. And then to your point, the
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: shipping and getting moved back, like that's a disaster for
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of folks who want to buy it. Or
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: if you're breakers or something like that and you're trying
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: to get the product and you're not like in in
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: with Tops, you don't have that uh you know, specific license.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: That's really gonna hurt a lot of pokes. And I
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: think I'm gonna guess they're gonna get a ton of
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: cancelation requests things like that, because you want to rip
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: TOPS update a SAP when you get a chance to
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: do it, so you know, I I honestly, I'm probably
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: gonna stop by the local card shop and ask a
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: few questions and see, hey, you know, do you have
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: it any Yeah? Like I I don't know, you know
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: all the details behind it, Like did they just get
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: delayted in production? Did maybe the basketball come in and
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: you know, take down a few machines. So something going
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: on here. But I have a feeling this is gonna
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: be a weird one where maybe someone has already gotten
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: out and was getting there for the release, others are
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: not and you're being told to hold it. So I
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: think it'll be interesting to see. I don't feel like
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: we're in with done with a saga of TOPS update
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: for twenty twenty five. I feel like we've got a
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: little bit more of a story story to tell, but
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: it's not not a good start for what feels like
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: for a flagship perspective. Should have been the strongest flagship product
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: in the Baseball four Tops this season despite all the
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: mineral levers, and I don't think this is the way
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: that they really wanted to start.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so if you're looking for the full calendar details,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: going to the show notes from this podcast, because also
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: on November twelfth, we're supposed to have Top Pro debut
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: coming out, which I think that one will probably get
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: pushed to. That one is a little bit more of
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: like a literal minor release, and so like that one
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: always gets pushed around whenever Tops needs to do so.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: So the other one that's going to be fascinating here
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: is we're supposed to have a November tenth pre order
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: release or pre pre order sale on tops dot Com
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: for Tops Chrome Update twenty twenty five. I believe by
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: that time we should have MVP awards and so this
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: is a fascinating thing if you followed us throughout the summer,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Tops with Tops Chrome again is doing the buyback program
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: where you get value in cash back for your MVP cards.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: It's obviously going to be show Heo Tani and the
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: NL side, but on the AL side it could be
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Judge who was in regular Tops Chrome along with Sho
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Heo Tani, but the other candidate, cal Rawley, is in
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Update Chrome not regular Chrome. So this one it's going
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: up for pre order pretty late. And the release is coming.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Who knows when considering all these other issues, you actually
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: nailed it that, Like, I think it's actually Tops has
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: picked up the NBA basketball printing and licensing and that product.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: That first product has seen some issues because they had
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: to get out the door so quick with the basketball
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: season kicking off. But I think it's really wrecking everything
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: else in the supply chain for TOPS. But Chrome Update
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: is either going to run into one of two situations.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: One which Tops really wants is cal Rally wins MVP.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: They don't even have this stuff on the shelves. It
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: becomes like a Willy Wonka Golden ticket situation where you're
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: just looking for your your automatic money in cal Rally cards.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: The other one I think is probably actually what's going
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: to happen is they've been hyping this thing. Tops is
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: going to drop the ball and Aaron Judge wins the MVP.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Tops Chrome Update right down the toilet because this thing
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: is going to be printed to the high heavens because
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: they were already preparing for the MVP buyback with cal
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Rally and when PCA was still in the running from
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: the n L side. But another disaster, another train wreck
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: shaping up here for TOPS, right, I think so.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not gonna be shocked if Kyle wins
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: the MVP. I just think we saw this back in
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: the twenty tens era with Albert Poohls. He should have
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: had like six MVPs, but he continued to do every year,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: have the same season every year, and be the best
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: player in the National League every year. But one guy
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: had an outside season for themselves which was about as
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: good as Alberts, and he got all the MVP votes.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like that might be happening here with Callagan's
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Aaron Judge, And so I'm not fully out that. I
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: think I think Judge probably deserves it as frankly, but
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: I think you can easily make an argument for play
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: in the hard position, being the switch hitter, the valuable player,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: bringing the Mariners to the playoffs, and you know, all
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: these things. You can make all those arguments of best
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: season versus MVP, and that's what TOPS wants. And if
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: it happens, it's incredibly fun because you're you're looking all
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: these breakers, ripping the Mariner spots that are you know,
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: almost guaranteed to get their money back and things like that.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be really interesting. You know, once you go
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: buy a value box and you know what, I don't
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: know what the oddits are, but one and three have
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: a col Rally card on it. Like it feels like
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: it just lessens the burden of the cost of the
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: of the product, and so I'm kind of hopeful that's
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: what happens. I think it'll be more fun. But I
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: do feel like what you said is the more likely
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: outcome where TOPS misses their window. They didn't get it
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: out before the voting, which is where it would really
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: be exciting, and then they end up played and Judge
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: wins it. So I think they like, this could be
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: absolutely a killer if they actually get this thing out
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: before the voting, and most likely it's gonna be complete dud.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So we'll see how that shapes up for
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five TOPS Chrome update. The other one that's
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: on the schedule that I've added this week is TOPS
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Cosmic Chrome twenty twenty five just because I know this
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: one has been another one on Reddit in other kind
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: of boards of baseball card collecting. Yeah, because this is
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: also a hobby that involves a lot of old people,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: old dudes that people still hang out on like chat
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: rooms and chat boards and talk about this stuff like
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: its original Internet. But Cosmic Chrome has been caught in
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: this purgatory of releases as well because it's been delayed
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: a few times. The pre order was at some point
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: during the summer that we missed it in like because
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: just with everything else going on. Usually I don't cover preorders,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: but I believe it was like July or August. And
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: usually when they do a pre order, TOPS doesn't really
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: hold your money for that long unless it's a really
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: crazy release or something that they try to ship it within.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: I would say usually it's a month or two that's
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: not too crazy long. But this one is really starting
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: to get under folks's skin because Cosmic Chrome is got
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: really like no release date. They said it's gonna be November,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: but obviously on the Chrome printing presses it's probably behind
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Chrome Update right now. And this has been one of
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: our favorite releases, it's been newer over the past couple
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: of years. But Cosmic Chrome is going to be caught
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: in the tangle of all of this and is also
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: leading to more frustration and friction within the hobby because
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: people aren't getting the turnaround on the cards and the
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: money that they're paying in to Tops. Well, you know,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: everything else is just kind of going to crap in
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: the country in terms of you know, government shut down
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: and other sorts of economic woes that people probably are
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: canceling some of this stuff too. Not to mention, we
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: still got Stadium Club hasn't even happened. We know that's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: come in, so it's really quite the backlog and so uh,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: this is just turning into it could be a really
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: bad pr kind of quarter for Tops and fanatics if
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: this stuff doesn't get out the doors before the holidays.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's absolutely right, Like they got to get them out,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: especially before the shipping issues hit, which we know mid
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: November shipping problems will start to take place with the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: postal service, you know, throwing a government shut down, some
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: other issues going on, and let's get them the political atmosphere.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, things are not good, not gonna be good
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: for Tops. Granted when you have kind of a monopoly
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: on the market to a degree, Yeah, well who cares.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: And so it seems like that's how they're rolling with things,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: and I guess can't blame them.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, so all right, I think that's gonna wrap us
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: up for this week. Like I said, if you are
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: looking for any details or links on any of the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: things that we discussed, going to those show notes, We've
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: got lots of stuff in there, along with a link
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: to cars and categories gear. We've got hats, we've got
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: t shirts, We've got all sorts of other stuff blazoned
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: with cards and categories logos. Check that out. Also, wherever
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: you're listening to us, we appreciate if you rate and
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: review us. If it's Spotify, if it's Apple Podcasts. We
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: just want that rate and review because it really helps
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: show like what you maybe want in the show, or
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: improve in the show if you've got a comment to add,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: but also just helps us disiminate and get into more
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: and more lists. And we've been climbing. I was looking
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: at the one of the like AI checklists or pod
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: like lists that we get on. We're up to number
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: two right now, So nice work us. Maybe if Tops
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: needs somebody to help them with these checklists release, they
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: can reach out to us because we do it fantastically
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: over the audio format. If I don't say do you
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: say so myself?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: We paint pictures with our words and nobody else can
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: can say the same thing exactly.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: Well, Brew, if you want to paint pictures with your
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: words on a screen for everybody and not to speak
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: them out, where can they find those words from you?
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Well after tonight, after game five where a tree of
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: savage has already struck out ten tonight in five innings,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: if you haven't kept up there after that, because you
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: won't find me the rest of the night because I'm
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: watching to see if he gets out of the six
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: innings he's still under any pitches. You can find me
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: on Twitter slash x or blue Sky Jebrewer one seven.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: You can find me on ras Ball usually on the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: weekends when we're in season writing your top one hundred
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: hitter articles and hitter profiles. Will be hitting probably streaming
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: in January February time frame again next year. So Coolly,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: where can folks find you?
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can find me on blue Sky at m
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: cool seven. Cool is co u il like my last name.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I'll also be first pitch Arizona as next
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: weekend in Phoenix in Tempe at the Sheraton and Mesa.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: I guess it's in Mesa, not Tempe, right next to
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: the Cubs spring training facility and So if you are
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: going to be at First Pitch air Zona, come track
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: me down, come say hi. I'd love to chat ball
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: and baseball cards fantasy with you. So it's going to
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: be a great time. We'll probably talk about it a
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: little bit more next week too, before I fly out
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: there on Thursday. But yeah, if you're also looking to
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: connect with the podcast, you can find the podcast on
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Blue Sky at Cards Categories, or you can email the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: podcast at Cards Categories at gmail dot com. And you
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: can also find everything related to cards and categories on
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: rasball dot com, where you can find a post that
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: goes with every podcast. We'll have pictures of cards that
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: we discuss, links other stuff, and there's also a commentary
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: box where we can chat there too. So thanks everybody
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: for checking out our podcast this week. We will be back,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: same time, same place next week, hopefully with an Allen
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: and Ginter checklist to discuss four