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What do romance novels give women than men don't? | Rantzerker 236 · Honey Badger Radio

• 1:15
  Speaker 1: On coming to you live from deep within a snowmuldy
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: and ac radioactive wasteland. We are the survivors of the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: alt right keeck Apocalypse, the few, the brave, the bitchy,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: once more wading into battle against the femi horny, the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: lobster hoards with rant Zerker number two three six. What
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: do romance novels give women that men don't. I'm your host, Allison,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and with me is she who must be obeyed Karen
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and the indomitable Brian on the knobs and whistles and switches. Okay,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: so let's let's just get should we get right into it?
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Or maybe I'll ask the bird in question.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: What I have that I have the language button? Yeah?
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just randomly hit that button to prove he has it. Okay, So, well,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: was there anything of worse at all in this? Brian?
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Give us? Give us an overview?
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a Manifestel video, so that depends on what
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: you think is worth. But I mean, I think there's
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: definitely some rage bait and it seems appropriate for the
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: kind of show this is. So yeah, that's all I'll say.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I don't want to spoil anything, but I think you
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: can guess what Manifestel's thesis is.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm looking at the takeaways now. One that that
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: stands out to me is the historical context of romance
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: novels reveals their role and challenging patriarchal norms.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Either that or men just suck and women have to
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: read about good men instead of the stucky ones that
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: they're stuck with.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Did they just imagine in their mind in every capacity, physic, mentally, emotionally,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: there's actually no man in there. It's all women, all right?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Uh So, shall we start with a clip before or
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: shall I do this?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Let's start, Yeah, do the things and then we'll play
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: her little openings. You guys can get a sense of
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: the setup.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So if you at any point throughout
• 3:24
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• 3:56
  Speaker 1: dot com slash support. All right, Brian, let's just just
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a listen to the beginning.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Love cells.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: But did you know it's a one point four billion
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: dollar industry that's more than mystery, sci fi and fantasy combined,
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: And for millions of women, romance novels aren't you stories.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: They're an escape in a world where finding a good
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: partner feels harder than ever. Fiction offers the love, passion,
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: and respect that reality so often with Holtz. But here's
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: the twist. The romance we escaped to was never just ours.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: It's been packaged and sold to us. We were promised
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: love as a reward for playing by the rules. Be beautiful,
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: be selfless, be the perfect woman. And this commodified fantasy
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: of romance isn't about connection. It's about control. And while
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: we're developing these.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Stories to I'm sorry, I'm sorry. This is a genre
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: written and almost entirely exclusively by women for women. It
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: is women giving women what they want, and they do
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: it so well, so well that romance fiction is not
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: just the number one selling genre of fiction, it outsells
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: all other genres combined, mystery, literary fiction, you know, like
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: lump in every other genre young adult, right, you know,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: lump in all of them. Okay, romance outsells it. And
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: and I'm sorry, you can't blame patriarchy for women giving
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: women what they want to read.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes you can.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can always find a way.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: And by the way, by the way, right of romance
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: written in since like the nineteen eighties does not have
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: a perfectly gorgeous female like a heroine does not. She's
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: never perfectly gorgeous. She's never you know, like uh, you
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: know Mary Sue, Uh, you know, Pollyanna. She's never like
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: you know, some of the best romance novels I've ever
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: read were women who were kind of Jane airish, a
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: little bit plain, you know, and uh.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: They were a vessel for the reader to put themselves into.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: That's exactly what it is. And you know, you have
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: you have entire genres of romance, particularly eroticized highly eroticized
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: romance like erotic romance and and romantica that that have
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: like big beautiful woman, right, the man is usually closely perfect, right,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Like you know, sometimes he'll have like he'll have to
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: walk with a cane, like doctor house because he you know,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: he got injured in in battle or something like that, right.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: But saving an orphanage and a nunnery at the same time.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Usually yeah, yeah.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, and sometimes he'll have personality quirks
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: that are like he's arrogant or whatever. But generally he
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: learns how to be a better person through his relationship
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: with the woman, right, and he earns her and so
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: it's it's like he earns her love. Often romance novels
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: force the man to really prove himself worthy of her
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: love and affection and all of that stuff, and it's
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: just like, yeah, no, don't give me this bullshit. Fifty
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Shades of Gray wasn't written by a man.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah no.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And if you actually look at Fifty Shades of Gray,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: that protagonist there is absolutely she is nothing. She doesn't
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: have any interesting hobbies. From what I remember, well, they
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: weren't interesting, so I wouldn't.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't remember them talking about who.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: That Anastasia's Steel, the protagonist of Fifty Shades of Gray.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, yeah, Karen, just maybe don't eat your
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: mic whatever it is you're doing. But she is nothing.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: She has no interesting qualities. She's not described as attractive
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: in the movie. She is not well, I mean, she's cute,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: but she's not certainly not a Hollywood beauty.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: And it's so I don't even right off the bat
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: manifestel is full of crap. And it's interesting that she's
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: creating this framing. I don't know why, because romance, like
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Karen was saying, specifically, has genres that cater to whatever
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: flaw women think that they have or do have. Right,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: if if you're overweight, you know, if you're a little.
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: If you're a little nerdy and bookish, yes, yes, you
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: can find one. Yeah, you know, any any even worse
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: like the personality flaws. If you're a control freak, if
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: you're incapable, if you're a freaking histrionic, you'll you'll find
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: your place. And it's it's this this entire well, not
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: the entire because I've actually found romance that does Because
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: the thing is that romance is in the genre called
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: buddy love or supposed to be, it usually doesn't.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: It fails really badly. But the idea behind buddy love
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: is that both of the two characters are both their
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: primary antagonists but also the person that they need to
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: grow the most, so that the process of the story
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: they learned to put the relationship ahead of themselves individually.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: And that applies to cop cop buddy cop comedies and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, even like The Terror. If you
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: guys have watched The Terror, which is a document not
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: a documentary, but a dramaticization of the attempt to get
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: through the Northwest Passage of I believe the British Navy,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: and it is a story between these two male characters.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: One is the overall captain of the expedition and his
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: second in command, and they are up to the point
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: where they get to the survival situation. They are completely
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: at odds. They hate each other, and the story is
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: about them overcoming that and growing close as friends.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So that's the kind of genre supposed to be, and
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: sometimes you find a romance that actually plays true to that.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: So for one I'm thinking about, which is probably one
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: nobody has heard of. I don't even remember the name
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: of it, but the female character met the male character
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: in a sort of a scientific retreat and found out
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: that he was being brainwashed and used by the government.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And the entire story is her attempting to rescue him
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: from this situation, and it is actually pretty harrowing how
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: much she has to do, and she manages it because
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: of the charity of men friendships with men that she
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: makes along the way, and her end reward is that
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: she gets into safety in like this rehabilitative home. He
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't remember her at all. Yeah, you know, but he's
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: but he's safe, and that is actually more in line
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: with what romance is supposed to be than a lot
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: of the stuff that Manifestella is talking about. But of course,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: she she would she she probably she would probably read
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: that story and instantly fall into a coma of.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, I can't believe patriarchy foils the
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: woman and doesn't reward her hard work. Yet again, well
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: it doesn't reward.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, she did get a reward, but the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: whole thing was about her hero's journey, right, her standing
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: up to all of this bullshit. And it's actually one
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of the first romance the only romance novels that explicitly
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: acknowledges the because she's part of a more of a
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: conservative culture, but she acknowledged that because she was part
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: of a more what patriarchal culture, she got away with
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: more as a woman, she acknowledges it in the text.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, my good gosh, I've never read
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: a romance like this. So there are some of them
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: out there, but for the most part, they're just wish
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: fulfillment for women written by women, and of course manifest
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Elsi's patriarchy in that. Did she ever explain.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Brian how well let's uh, I think, yeah, let's listen
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: to more of the video. Okay, so let's finish this intro.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's almost done anyways.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel seen we're also being told what we
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: should settle for in real life. But what if we
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: stopped buying into their version of love and wrote her
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: own instead?
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So okay, So she's basically gonna propose I'm gonna jump
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: ahead of the first time code here that essentially romance
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: novels have not served women in the past, even though
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: we just talked about firstly that they're written by women
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: for women most of the time, and secondly that they
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: are like the biggest market. Uh and when it comes
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: to fiction period, like bigger than everything put together. And
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I want to I'm not gonna say it now, but
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna I want to add something to that that
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I think is often overlooked in terms of why this
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: the romance genre is so big. But let's get to
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: where she because she does like an ad read for
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: better health, which apparently she's getting and uh oh, and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I should I should open up the did you already
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: plug the Superchowel's I should, yes.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: But before we continue, I just wanted to say, like
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the great job on Karen's Avatar's.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I put her in that. Yes, I put her
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: in a kitchen from the fifties, so I thought that
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: that would be funny. It's a really nice kitchen. I
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: kind of wish I had one like that. But yeah, that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Is I can't see it, but definitely, No, that's the
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: kitchen that I want. If it's even if it's even
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: remotely nice, like if it's if it's even like just
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: a just a plain typical apartment galley kitchen, I'll take it.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Actually, it's really it's styl and it's got the sea
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: foam green, and the the period refrigerator interestingly in redle
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: like a diner, and then the then leather uh stool
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: stool seats. Yeah, it's it's nice and some uh I
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: see some like what is it that that dimpled steel
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: like accents? Very nice. I don't think that the colors
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: are bright enough to be truly fifties retro, but it is.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: It's getting there.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Probably I didn't want I didn't want it to contrast
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: too much and clash with the cartoon exactly.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no no, not not blaming your aesthetic choices,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I understand. But yeah, it's it's nice, and it's it's
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: adorable too, because you see Karen with her little bottle
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: of wine in her mouth, moves but she looks like
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: a badger.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right, let's play the she's gonna
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: get into the topic.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: Now to the topic, let's talk romance novels.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: As the name suggests, this genre revolves around topics of
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: love and romance in short love stories, whether that's young
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: adult romance or why a rom coms, dark romance, romance,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: see and many many more. But before we get into
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: all of that, it is worth backtracking to see how
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: this genre came to be. We can actually trace the
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: origins of the modern romance novels we enjoy today back
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: to the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. The first ever romance
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: novel was published by English writer Samuel Richardson titled Pamela
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: or Virtue Rewarded, which tells the story of a young
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: woman who attempts to resist giving her virginity to a
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: wealthy landowner. So very interesting that this was their definition
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: of romance.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: So did you see where she's sort of poisoning the
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: well by saying here's the first book and going I
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: also don't.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Think that's right?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Does she end up with the wealthy landowner or does
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: she get rescued from her horrible fate by a different man?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: We could look it up.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, was she just being recalcitran?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Can look it up.
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: What's the name of the Do you remember the name
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: Virtue Rewarded?
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: I think okay?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: So.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Published in seventeen forty, Pamela is an epistolatory novel, a
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: story's told through devices such as letters, journal entries, and
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: other documents, recounting the story of a fifteen year old
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: maid servant who becomes a subject of repeated sexual advances
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and harassment by her employer, mister B. Pamela struggles to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: avoid mister B's attempt at seduction, which escalate to an
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: abduction and attempted assault. Pamela's commitment to her virtue is
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: rewarded as mister B reforms and offer to marry Pamela
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and elevate her social station. Pamela and accepts and spends
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: the rest of the novel adjusting to being an upper
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: class lady. My dear, this is more wish fulfillment. I
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: don't care if it's written by Samuel Richardson. Samuel Richardson
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: was obviously listening to his daughters or sisters or maids, Like, seriously,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: this is wish. This is basically fifty shades of gray written.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: This is seventeen hundreds.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: It's Cinderella, yeah, but.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: With a but with a with a little bit more,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: A more aggressive man shall always say, there you go.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: But it's saying what keep like. It's actually saying exactly
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the same thing that Manifestell says, except more in the seventies,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the seventeenth century idiom Like it's saying, don't
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: give your sexuality away for free ladies. That's exactly Manifestel's message.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Why does she have a problem with that? I'm guessing
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: because she only ever read like two sentences about the book.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Manifestelle, she Pamela kept what would be kept her,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: but kept her so kept her true sou and got
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: his trusseau. Isn't that your classic statement, keep your bag
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and get his bag? That's what she did.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Really, do you see what I'm.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Saying, Brian, Because we've taught, we we've done a lot
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of Manifestel Karen, and her favorite saying is keep your
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: bag and get his bag.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that just sounds she doesn't even sell. Like, is
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: she a feminist or is she just like a gold digger?
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, both yes, bo I mean probably she's an
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: opportunist that will use feminism to like line her pockets.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: But again that's not really antithetical to feminism anyway. So
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: since feminists themselves are like gold diggers, necessarily, like they
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: use their ideology to line their pockets and keep them rich.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just they're not a large Yeah, they're not
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: attractive enough to like get an Elon musk to impregnate them.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: No, that's okay, so I just want to say that
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: that is not the first romance book. I think romance
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: has been around for as long as there have been stories, right,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe it was the first that was written
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: as a book, but there are earlier works that go
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: back to to Greece and ancient Greece and Rome. So
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that's so right off the bat, she's you know, full
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: of shit, she's or she's like having she's altering what
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it means to you know, like to what what you
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: would call a romance novel, Like the definition of a
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: romance novel might be something that came out after the
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: printing press, and I don't.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Know, but it probably would have would have come out
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: after the printing press and and modern book binding.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So yeah, exactly. So they're one strong candidate for an
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: early work of romantic with romantic elements or that's a
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: romance story would be Daphne and Chloe, written by the
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Greek author Longest around the second century CE. It's a
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: pastoral romance and tells the story of two foundlings, Daphnie
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: and Chloe, who grew up as shepherd's on the island
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: of Lesbo's, fall in love and base so they had
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: lesbian store like that's some of the early earliest ones. Okay,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: fall in love and face various trials. There's also Greek
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: novels like Lucippi and Keitaphon by Achilles Titus, the Ephesian
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Tale by Xenophon of Ephesius. So it goes on. I mean,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: you could say that even the story of Hades and
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Prosephone right is a romance. So yeah, this is not
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: the case. She's just wrong, it goes there's Middlely.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Romantic literature is ubiquitous throughout history.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so yeah, so okay, So here's where the
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: this book she's talking about comes in. So if we're
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: looking for something closer to the modern romance novel prose
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: fiction focused on a romantic relationship with an optimistic ending,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: we need to jump to the eighteenth century. Many literary
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: history orian's point to Samuel Richardson's Pamela or Virtual Virtue
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Rewarded seventeen forty as a pivotal test. So but there,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: but again, there are there are older and some argue
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: that Pamela is actually more about morality and class than
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: it is about romance, and the tone can be felt
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: in uh in the can field the tone can feel
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the dactic. If you want a purer what romance you
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: might look into later eighteenth century works like Fanny Bernie's
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Evelina seventeen seventy eight, which follows a young woman navigating
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: love and society, ending in a happy marriage. So and
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: then there's pride and prejudice.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Brontes and.
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: The well but she wants she should have done that one.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: If she doesn't. If if she doesn't, well, but then
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: how is she going to get his bag? She's like,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: she's like, she's like the She's like the dog with
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a bone in its mouth that walks over and.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: You're you're You're gone for some reason. Why did you disappear?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: People might not be able to hear you. Let me, Yeah,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: she's yeah, yeah, did you drop out for a second?
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Hold on, hold on, I gotta a couple because if
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: you're not in here, then nobody can hear you talk.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, no.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Just if you if
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: you drop out again, let me know when you come back,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: because I'm looking at three screens at the same time.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: All I gotta say is Manifestol is like that dog
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: with a. Well, well, okay, you go ahead and make
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: your point, Allison, because all.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Right, so I don't know if you guys heard me
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: when I dropped out, but I basically said that manifesto
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: wants romance. She wants a romantic relationship but without another
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: person in it. And she wants to get some men's bag,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: but she doesn't want to have the man involved in
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: getting the bag at all. She doesn't want to have
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: to appeal to men to get their bag. They should
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: just she should just walk down the street, like go
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: she could go to Wall Street, you know in New
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: York and walk down and all of the all of
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the traders should just hand her a bag for existing.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: And also that should happen to all women, and that
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: would that would be a non patriarchal society, except why
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: do men have the bags to hand to women in
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the first place? The bag should never have even touch
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: a man.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: All right, No, she's like, she's she's like what she
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: wants a romance like that dog walking across the bridge,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: you know in that fable where he's got a bone
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: in his mouth and he looks over the bridge into
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: the water and sees another dog with a bone in
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: its mouth, and you know, and when he goes to
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: steal the bone from that dog, his bone goes into
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: the water, right, because it was a reflection of himself.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: That's the love that she wants. She wants both bones.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: She wants the bone, and she wants the bag in
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: the mirror to be real.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she wants she wants to get the bag
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: from herself with no intercession of anybody else, but not
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: actually have to do it herself. Yeah, just by virtue
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of the value that she brings to the universe.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's listen to some more of this.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I jumped ahead a bit, so.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: Eventually new authors emerged, ones like Jane Austen and Anne
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: Radcliffe who wrote about the daily lives and struggles of
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: female protagonists. And this shift from Radcliffe and Austin reflects
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: not only a shift in the stories that were told,
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: but a deeper shift that saw women using romance novels
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: as a tool to challenge the patriarchal norms of their
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: time and nowadays to.
• 26:16
  Speaker 7: Challenge the patriarchal norms of their time, like what being
• 26:20
  Speaker 7: an adult female child of a wealthy family and having
• 26:25
  Speaker 7: all your shit paid for until you finally fucking settle on,
• 26:29
  Speaker 7: mister Darcy, don't and then continuing to have all your
• 26:33
  Speaker 7: shit paid for or what or whatever that dude's name was.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true, and it may
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: not be, but don't. A lot of romance novels, especially
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: these sort of Victorian ones, involve women of high status.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: They're not really about like peasant women.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Or Jane Air was a working class woman. She was
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: like the hired as a governess right for mister Rochester
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: or whatever. And but yeah, no, it's it's typically uh,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: aspirational in the sense for the reader, in the sense
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: that most of these people are you know, and you
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: can you can really tell through the eighteen hundreds, right,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: and that even like writers like Charles Dickens, right, you know,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: there was always some deus ex machina right at the
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: end that Alison dropped out again, by the way, at
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: the end of the story, like, uh, it turns out,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: you know, it turns out.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Again, But go ahead your point. I'm just gonna be
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: in the lookout for when she comes back.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: It turns out Pip, you know, he ends up being
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: you know, sponsored by some wealthy person, so I mean
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: he can he can buy his in his papers back
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: from Who's going to be a learn a trade? So
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: he was an apprentice, and apprentices are generally treated like crap, right,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: And and he had a wealthy, wealthy patron who basically said, no,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: you don't have to live like this, right, and paid
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: his way through life. And you know, so it's all
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: of these kind of a rescue stories, right, you know,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: like when when it is even about Oliver as well,
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: you know, turns out, oh the rich man down the
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: street was this orphan's real real grandfather or whatever, right,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: you know, as it turns out, and so you have
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: you have all of these these stories that it's just
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: they really are Cinderella stories where women or sometimes boys
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: go from scrubbing floors to you know, learn yeah, learning that,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: living in a castle and you know, and marrying somebody
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: who for the females, for the women, the heroines, marrying
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: somebody insanely wealthy. Right, And that's that's just how it is.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: She's back, Yeah, yeah, I see, Yeah, I'm just I
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: noticed that my internet's cutting out. It's probably just another situation.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: Is your cat playing with your freaking chords?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: No? Actually, I think it was cutting out before then,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: although she did play with my chords might have been
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a contributing factor. But what happens is that everything sort
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: of thaws and now it's gone cold again, so there's
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: probably ice on the lines, which is breaking them. Apologies, guys,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: it's just basically rural Canadian Internet might do better with
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: just tin cans and strings. But anyway, let us let
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: us continue.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I hope they can.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: I think in the sense that like in eighteenth in
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: this era of literature, whether it's just Charles Dickens or
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Jane Austen or you know, the Bronte Sisters or whatever,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: whenever it's centered around a protagonist that is down on
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: their luck. Even even the the erotic romance novel Fanny Hill, right,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: she ends up marrying the rich guy, right, and you know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: with orphans like Oliver Twist, he ends up actually being
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: the real grandson of the rich guy.
• 30:38
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: So Pip gets his wealthy patron who buys him out
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: of his hardships, and it's just it's just this is
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, when you have so many people in those
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: positions of being working class and that's a real, real struggle.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: You know, during that period of time, you're gonna have
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: stories like this, and they are very romantic, and they
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: are very like Cinderella, like you know where she went
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: from scrubbing floors too, you know, to dancing with a
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: prince at a ball because of a fairy godmother, right right?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So okay, so I want to say that, But okay,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: so what's Manifestel's point though? What is her angle? Why
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: does she she basically poisons a well by quote citing
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: this is how it started, and she goes with, uh,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: let's say cherry picks a certain author that fits the
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: definition of what she's saying when she says, oh, the
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: earliest example of romantic literature can be tied to this story,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: and this is what it's about, you know. And she
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't tell you the whole story. She just sets the
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: framing to say, look, this is a patriarchal romance novel
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and then goes on to like say, well, it evolved
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: from there and somehow. And this is the thing that
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I think is kind of weird, is that she's gonna
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: she's telling us that because more women writers got involved
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: in writing romance novels, they use romance novels as a
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: way of fighting the patriarchy.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: No they don't. But that's what they absolutely don't.
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: But but that's her claim. And then, but what's weird
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: about that is that she's also going to claim later
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: that that thing that she just claimed that these later
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: romance writers did hasn't happened because now women have to
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: do it. So it's like a thing that was that happened,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: but then it didn't happen because we need to do
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: it now. But she's gonna that's like her thesis is
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: that women, modern women have to write romance novels that
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: apparently are not about men at all somehow and don't
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: involve one.
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: But yeah, so, I.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Mean they they are and they aren't, right, they are
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: centrally like the main protagonist of a romance novel written
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: for women is the female protagonist. That that is just
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: that's just how it is. Yeah, right, So I mean
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: like the man is in the secondary role. He's the
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: she's the lead actor, and he's the supporting actor in this.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. I got a super chat from
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Senior Styx. I actually had another one that I didn't
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: read from before. I should go back. I kind of
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: missed it. But Senior stick says, for two dollars. Markle
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: is a modern day example, and she failed had like
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Megan Markle. Then there was something I think it might
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: have been him again, let me just double check here. Yeah,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: he said for two dollars. Could the feminists adapt in
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: times before?
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: Now?
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what that is in reference to, but
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I think that before modernity, women were more they were
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: just too busy to worry about this ship and generally
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: they were just like men, you know, like we didn't
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: have the luxury to complain about, like our status, which
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: ultimately what this is about.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: So yeah, my grandmother, she she read romance, a lot
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: of romance men's novels, and and she she would sit
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: down for about half an hour a day with a
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: romance novel and that was her break. She'd have a
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: cup of tea and and read read a few, you know,
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: a couple chapters of her latest romance novel, and then
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: she'd always write in the inside cover, you know, give
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: it a rating, and you know, like V good he
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: got good meant it was it was pretty kinky and
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: pretty hot and steamy, and like a weak cup of
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: tea was like a bad rating. So she was definitely.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, Grandpa had his porn. We found them one day,
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: his magazines and Grandma had her porn and you know,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: but yeah, she was way too busy to to really
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: to focus on romantic life, right. It was always family, family, family,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: And then you know, even when she was raising young kids,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: work work, work, right m hm. So you know, like work,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: running the general store, work running the post office, that
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: kind of work, as well as you know, running a
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: household and raising a family.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to point out that I think I
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I think I called it earlier that she wants a
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: romance without the man essentially, and I think she also
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: wants to be able to compete with other women based
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: on how good her man is, but also without the man.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: She used to be able to get a man who
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: is make all of her friends jealous.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Right, but she's actually existing, but.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Without actually existing because then she would actually have to
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: compete with other women for him.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: That that's the.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Female dating strategy. That's one of the one of the
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: things that I noticed is that they want what they
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: call a high value man, which would be a man
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: that many many women are after, but they don't want
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: to have to deal with the fact that many many
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: women would be after him. Yeah, oh man, okay, well.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: This is and this is all this is all based
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: in evolutionary psychology, Like don't you know like evolutionary psychology
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: slash reproductives strategies that are biologically based.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's not very it's it's it's me. It's
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the destruction of the human race.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: But it's twisted. It's twisted out of shape at the
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: moment by people like this woman on the screen here.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: But but yeah, no, like the criterion wanting a high
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: value man has changed, right as women price themselves out
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: of the regular market of the regular ordinary man. They've
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: priced themselves out of that market because they can earn
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: just as much as a man, so you know, they
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: need a man who earns more and it just and
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: they won't settle for anything less. So it's it's like,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: what are you going to do? Right? The whole thing
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: is being perverted and twisted out of shit.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, let's listen to the next time code.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: Romance genre is as big as it is in the
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: first place, like one forty four billion dollars big. As
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: I mentioned earlier, romance novels, the vibe is escapism. Romance
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: novels provide readers with a sense of escapism. Author Jamie
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: Gold writes that escapism brings readers into a world different
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: from their day to day lives, and often these worlds
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: are designed to be better than a reader's reality. So
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: for those who live in a world where genuine emotional
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: connection is scarce, romance novels offer that much needed sanctuary
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: from the super attractive male lead to the passionate love story.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: These books paint a picture of romance that feels almost magical,
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: allowing readers, particularly women, to experience relationships that are free
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: of the monotony, emotional labor, and unfulfilled expectations of real life.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: For us the more time, Sure, but I mean, like,
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: that's that that's the whole reason why you read books
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: like and nobody in their right minds would want to
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: replace themselves with some of the main characters in a
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: lot of books, right, But I mean you read fantasy
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: fiction for escapism to vicariously experience things that you otherwise
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: would not, like taking the ring of to the Mountain
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: of Fire, right, you know, like struggling and striving and
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: climbing and fighting off all of these monsters and stuff
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: and managing to you know, get to Mount Doom, Like
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: that's not an experience that anybody actually ever wants to have,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: but it's an experience that we are interested in, like
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: vicariously in imagining what that would be. Like hmm right, yeah.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Well remember Tolkien was in the Somme in World War One.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, he is writing from experience in
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: a way, but he's sparing us like, you know, how
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: how actual, how awful it actually was, right, but in
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a you know, fantasy context. But even then, like by
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: the end of Lord of the Rings, you're like, holy shit,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: these guys are never going to be the same.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: And so yeah, yeah, yeah, and you look at too.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Putting it in the fantasy context, it makes it. I mean,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: like people like movies like Saving Private Ryan and and
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: The Pianist and you know, hyper realistic depictions of those
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: kinds of situations. What was it in nineteen eighteen? I
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: think it was was an amazing movie and you you
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: you watch that for the visceral feeling of you know,
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: like it's it's but it's not something that you would
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: ever want to go through.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Yeah that's that's why. Well,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I think there's a there is an important point to
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: these stories. Part of it is that it's kind of
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: like wisdom in a book because he's writing by his experiences.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: So but anyway, I feel like we're getting off track.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Let's listen to more of this.
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: Other people. It also becomes a source of comfort and
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: in real life, like none of us really knows what's
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: going to happen, but in the romance novels, we get
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: to read about people for whom most of the time,
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: everything's going to turn out okay. Helen Wong, author of
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: The Kiss Quotient, even shares in an interview for l
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: that happy endings are a key part of the appeal.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: Wong shares, when I read a book and I know
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: it's going to have a happy ending, I embrace myself
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: and guard my heart and don't want to get hurt.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: In romance, I have that trust that the author is
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: going to take me on a ride, but it's going
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: to be okay, which makes the experience more intense. You
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: give up that control. Alex Ax also points out how
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: weirdly great it is to read a story in which
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: the character's problems are on the whole pretty ordinary. Acts
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: writes at a time when a lot of us are
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: overwhelmed by outer problems that we can't really fix. Retreating
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: to a world where the main worry is if person
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: A and person B are going to figure out their
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: issues in time to have a fulfilling relationship while probably
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: not worrying about their presidents starting a nuclear war, feels
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: pretty dang good.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Beyond noun, they couldn't help themselves. They couldn't help themselves.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: It's true, like most I mean, like harlequin romances have
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: a very specific formula, and you can they actually like
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: demand that the formula by page number, basically by page this.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: You know, they have to meet by page that they
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: have to like have a romantic sexual or sexualized encounter
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: right by page X, they have to they have to
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: have the big misunderstanding right and and be angry with
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: each other and and then you know, by page why
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: you you you Oh, it's like it was just a
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: big misunderstanding and then they get together, right. And so
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: it's a very very specific formula, and it's it's there
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: to create tension in the middle around specifically around the
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: big misunderstanding, and so it's it is a very mundane
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: formula because all couples, whether they're newly dating or not
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: end up having a big misunderstanding at some point, right, So.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not always, you know, and that is something that
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily end, you know.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: I just want It's like I thought he was cheating,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: but he was really out buying me a birthday present,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: right so you know.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you have to understand this woman doesn't want
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: to actually like she has a life, but she doesn't
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: want to show up for it. Like she just doesn't.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: She doesn't want to. She doesn't want to have to
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: do anything in her life. She's like the ultimate, Like
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I don't exist at all. I'm just a skin some
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: men should crawl into and animate.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I got a I got a super
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: chat from our super chow from great and So Great,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and George gives us five dollars. Thank you, greating Doordan
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: says in one of Better Bachelor's latest videos, I've seen
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: young attractive women in LA and New York City trying
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: to get a date, and they are on TikTok complaining
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: about the lack of men. We're talking about speed dating
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: events that are only being visited by women. In what
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: way does Manifesto critiquing romance novels has anything to do
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: with the situation right now in the real world. It's
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: like watching bubbles within a bubble, trying to deflate bubbles. Well,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: she doesn't want to face the reality. Yeah, it's cope,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: she's I think a lot of women are lonely and
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: they're and they haven't figured out that they could fix
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: it because they don't want to change, and they're like,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: want to do emotional labor, right, they don't want to change,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: and they're lazy.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that's it. And I think I think, you know,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: it is getting to the point where even if they
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: do show themselves as willing to do the emotional labor
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: and you know, provide value, and not value in the
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: sense of what she values, but value in the sense
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: of what a man would value in a woman. Right,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: even if they get to that point, men are getting
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: so fed up right with just the culture overall, that
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: they might not be able to find one who's even
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: willing to take a chance on anything serious with them. Ye.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean you're you're basically entering a contract in
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: which the other party can break it and take half
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: your stuff at any point, and then also level false accusations,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: which you know are extremely difficult to fight. I mean,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's a it's a real losing proposition for men.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And in addition, you get you get to have a
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: relationship with a person who regard the term emotional labor
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: has to be one of the the most toxic terms
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: because basically what they're saying is my side of a
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: relationship is more, is worth more than a man's side
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: of the like my caring about his feelings is worth
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: more than him caring about my feelings, you know. And
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: it's it's it.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Is hard for me to care about him.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: The idea of fairness at me. The idea of fairness
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: destroys relationships.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: And reciperosity is bad.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: But like like we, I think me and Brian determined
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Manifestelle is just giving women excuses to continue to live
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: in misery by saying that the grapes are sour, they're not.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: It's not worth it to actually pursue a relationship with
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: a man, even though you live and you are basically
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: ossifying in your own misery. You're marinating in your own
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: misery to the point where it's turning into a crust
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: that you'll never escape. But that's better, and.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: Your eggs aren't getting any less stale.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: By the way, ladies, that's better than making a change,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: because change requires courage and it requires independent thought. It's
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: much easier to just continue to be live in misery
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: than and pretend like the the goods are sour, which, incidentally,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's not the same as MiG tao because
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: they're dealing with a legal system that's a that is
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: one side that is essentially man at fault divorce. They're
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: dealing with that. These women just don't want to live.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: They want a man to do everything for him. I'm like,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not kidding when I say that man is part
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: and the female dating strategy. They all just want to
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: become a skin that a man scrawls into and animates
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: for them.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: They would call that oppression too, all right, probable, let's
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: because it's controlling, you see, all right, Let's uh, let's
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: keep going.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: On escapism and comfort. Though, romance novels also help readers
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: navigate being a woman in the world by validating our
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: feelings and emotions. Jessica Rega of ABC News specifically talks
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: about the refreshing lack of shame present in the community
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: of romance readers and how the genre is helping women
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: reclaim things that we find joyful or pleasurable. As bookseller
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: Amy McKinnon puts it, genre fiction has for a very
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: long time been a male thing, so fantasy, sci fi,
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: crime novels. With the rise of romance, you have predominantly
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: female writers reading predominantly female authors. I just think it's
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: great to see women reclaiming some of genre fiction because
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: quite often romance not are silly to the extent that
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: they hate each other and fall in love.
• 49:04
  Speaker 8: Okay, more about this whole way, more less, having more
• 49:09
  Speaker 8: purely for female joy, whether that's the or the really
• 49:13
  Speaker 8: cheesy romance of it.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, all fiction put together, right, the entire fiction industry,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: over eighty percent of the editors, the people who choose
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: what gets published and what doesn't, are women, right, So
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: don't give me this bullshit about how genre fiction is
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: male dominated. It women broke in largely through romance, right,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: but female editors now dominate. And that's for everything, including
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: children's fiction, so and crime and mystery and you know,
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: action and horror and all of that, all of it, right,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: So I'm sorry, but you don't get to say that anymore.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: You don't get to say, oh, the industry is patriarchal,
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: right when it's dominated by female authors, and that includes
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: in a lot of uh, non romance genre fiction these
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: days too, right, like men, men are clinging by the
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: atoms on the tips of their fingernails to a place
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: in you know, the sci fi and fantasy fiction.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Mark clinging is optimistic, I'm afraid I think pretty much gone.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, the only men laughter are ones who can
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: claim to be gay, or non white or part of
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: a like a maybe Muslim. Did you want to?
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: You still got your Dan Brown's and your.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Brian Sanderson's, Brandon Sanderson's and and Sephan King's. Yeah, the big,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: big big names. Yeah, there's not like when they die,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: that's gonna be like literally, guys, when Stephen King dies,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: that's going to be the end of fiction. When Brandon
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Sanderson dies, because there's nobody replacing them, nobody. And it's
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: going to be the end of women's fiction too, because
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: get this, the reason why these books that women are
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: writing cells is because they've co opted tropes from men
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: who did all of the heavy lifting and some women too,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: let's be fair, who did all of the heavy lifting
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: in the early in the twentieth century, basically the twentieth century, right,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Those people wrote the actual worlds that these women are
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: now placing their stories in. They wrote the actual story concepts,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: the actual characters that these women are appropriating. All we
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: see now in fiction is basically fan fiction of other
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: people's stuff, nothing new. And when there are no longer
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: the big male names, the entire industry is going to
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: collapse because nobody will want to read something so.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Boring, well and the same shit over and over.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: It'll be the same shit over and over. There'll be
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: nothing new to co opt. And I'm not saying that
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: in the past there weren't. There weren't creative female authors.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: There weren't, but that's not what's happening now. They existed
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: in a male construct around merit. Now the entire industry
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: is based around checking off a Pokemon box, not about merit.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: And and when you when you look at it too
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: with with male the male readership. I mean, like, there
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: are a lot of men out there who would rather
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: read nonfiction accounts of World War two and stuff like that, right,
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: or Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia, or you know, like stuff
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: like that. But you still have you know some genres
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: of fiction, mostly on on the screen, right, that have
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: a strong male uh, strong male audiences, like mostly male
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: audience in some cases, right, But that's getting watered down. Two,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: it's getting that what appeals to the male is getting
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: diluted right by female sensibilities. By It really is kind
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: of like that that article that made me discover the
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: Spearhead online magazine, right, which was my first experience of
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: men's rights to activism. The first article, very first article,
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: was a complaint that science fiction now always needs a
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: romantic subplot to you know, keep to gain the female audience, right,
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: And so you know it's like you can't just find
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: hard science fiction anymore. There's always some kind of something
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: to appeal to the female readership or the female audience.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: And okay, well, they want a maximize as their profits, right,
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: they want to maximize their sales. And you know, women
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: will drag their boyfriends and husbands to the theater to
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: watch things, and women will buy books more often than
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: men will. But I mean, the days of David Gammel
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: are like they're they're gone, Like the days of that
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: kind of of fantasy fiction where the romantic subplot if
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: one exists is like minuscule. You know, it's subtle, it's
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: barely hinted at.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Can I can I say a few things?
• 54:38
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: I want to, Okay, thank you. So I have a
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: few things floating around in my head that I want
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: to bring up. Okay, So, first of all, men are
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: reading fewer books than women. By far. There is almost
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: nothing for them to read. So in terms of like
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: escaping into literature, it is it is a shrinking. And
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that men aren't writing books, but that's
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: not the important question, because men can write books for
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: women and they often do, but that men are not
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: finding any books that are fiction nonfiction, sure, historical, you know,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: maybe philosophical stuff. They'll read that, but fictional books written
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: for men are like a vanishing, vanishing prospect. Okay, So
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: that's just not happening, and it's because it's not being written.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: These things are not being written with men in mind.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: There's no interest for whatever reason. I saw. There's more
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: and more YouTubers that write or that make videos about
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: writing have pointed this out. What it's like, Why is
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: it that we don't have fiction for men and boys anymore? Right?
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: These stories are just non existent and there you know,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: there's lots of claims about it, but the fact is
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: is that men are not reading books as much as women.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: The other thing I was thinking about is Manifestel is
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: talking about as escapism, which I get right. So, but
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: here's the thing that I think is funny about this
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: a couple things. One, it's funny because when men want
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: to escape, women come in there and they tell them
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: that they're not allowed to do that and that they
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: should get a real job or do something productive. So
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: men escape by what playing video games? Why do men
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: play video games? Because they want to be They want
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: to be agents in the story. They want to be
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: a part of it. That's why men generally are more
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: interested in playing video games. The truth is that video
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: games as a form of storytelling and entertainment is the
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: biggest right now bar like, be flat out, there's no competition.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Hollywood is dead. Books are not for men anymore because
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: women are writing them for other women, and men who
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: write books are writing them for women as well. You know,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: music is garbage, so all that's left is video games,
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: and that is being attacked because and I think this
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: is the real reason, because men enjoy them and One
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: of the ways that gets attacked is that men get
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: shane for playing them because they're not allowed to escape.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Yet women like Manifestel and lots of other women probably
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: agree with this, is that they'll they'll argue that reading
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: romance novels is actually a higher form of escapism. It's more,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: you know, it's it's more prestigious, or it's more elite
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason. And they'll and they'll that's what they'll argue,
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: is that, and that women need to escape because the
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: real world is so scary and oppressive. So that's another thing,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: is that it's funny that she thinks that this form
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: of escapism is good while men's forms of escapism are
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: always being attacked. And then the last thing I want
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: to say about this, which I think is really interesting
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: as well. There's been a lot of talk about the
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: dangers of pornography and how it can affect, you know, people,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: people who consume it. Usually these criticisms are directed at
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: men as well. Now, I think that there might be
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: some meat on those studies, and I do think that
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: there is something that to be said about how porn
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: can affect the minds of men, especially young men who
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: are consuming a lot of it. But having said that,
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I also want to say that could the same thing
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: apply to women who read romance novels, because that's what
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: gets them wet. That's the facts y. So when she
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: says that romance is like this massive industry, I'm like, well, yeah,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: but porn is also big. So are these the same?
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Can we compare them? I think we can, And I
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: think it's funny because what it sounds like to me
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: is that Manifestel is making the case for women being
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: addicted to porn, but she's just calling it romance novels
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: and calling it like some kind of liberation you know,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: from the real world and from men, And it's an
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: escapism that that is completely healthy and permissible, whereas you know, again,
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: men can't. Men are shamed for porn usage, men are
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: shamed for playing video games, but it's totally okay when
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: women do it. And I wonder, because I mean, I
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: know that there are studies that have been done on
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: the effects of pornography. Why aren't there studies being done
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: on the effects of romance novels on women? Because I
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: guarantee you there are. I guarantee you that it does
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: affect what women expect and men. Yes, So there you go.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: That's what I wanted to say.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: There there is studies that I've looked at, and it
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: creates unrealistic expectations. And in fact, the more that women
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: seem to replace actual men with these romance novel men,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: the more they start believing things like emotional labor, which
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: is essentially just your part of relationship, right, Like the
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: fact that you exist with another human being with their
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: own emotions, their own intentions, and you have to sort
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: of extend yourself to understand it, to understand them to
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: maintain the relationship. That becomes an imposition solely on women somehow.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: And I think it's because in part because of the
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: the porn of the female form of porn, what they
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: call pornification of the brain, which actually I think they
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: found that romance novels are worse because they give you
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: false Now, they don't just give you false ideas about
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: how sex works, they give you false ideas about how
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: relationships work. Yeah, and they inculcate women with ideas like, oh,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: he should be able to read my mind and if
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: he doesn't, he doesn't love me. How many times have
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: we seen that behavior destroy relationships? MM? Hmmm, you know,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: perfectly fine relationships with the man who isn't psychic and
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: you know, but yeah, that's uh, you know, I have
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: seen the studies and they do show that romance novels
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: cause problems. But of course if they cause problems in women,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: she would argue that that's just you know, any problem
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: that a woman has as a man's responsibility to fix.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Well m hmm, all right, okay, let's uh, let's play.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Let me look how many more are let me see
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: what I have one more written down. But there's definitely
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: some more stuff like we can get into. So let
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: me jump ahead to the next thing. It's right here, Okay.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: Real life relationships are for women, and that makes so
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: much sense, especially when you think about how the emotional
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: labor that's required to sustain relationships disproportionately falls on women.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: It doesn't, no, but Alison, of course it does, because,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: as you know, it's emotional labor.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: If you're talking if you're talking about certain expectations for
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: maintaining ties with family and things like that, yes, yes,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: women are generally the ones who do the Christmas shopping
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: for the family. Women are generally the ones to fill
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: out the Christmas cards, and you know, h organize the
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: family dinners and and all of those things, right, Like
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: they're generally the ones who do that kind of stuff, right,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: and are expected to do that kind of stuff. I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: don't do those things. See that. That's you can choose
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: not to do that. You can choose not to bother
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: with Christmas cards?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Right, you think it's thrown out anyway?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, and it's it's like who the fuck cares? Right, Like,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: why would I spend the money and go to all
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: the trouble and who I'm going to write a little
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: little personalized note and everyone?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: For people that you know live halfway across the country
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: or all the way across the country, I can talk
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: with them on the phone, right, I can. I can
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: keep up with them by an email, right, Like this
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: is just a useless freakin' uh. It's it's like it's
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: it's a platitude, right. It's like it's like when we
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: attended a Thanksgiving dinner with my husband's family, right and
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: for his grandmother, and and his aunt stands up and
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: she's like, it's just so wonderful. I can feel the
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: love in the room, and it's so great for the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: whole family to be together. And she's just gushing, right,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: And I'm just sitting there. My kids and I look
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: at each other and I'm just like, yeah, she's not
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: kidding anybody. They all hate each other. Yeah, there's a
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: they all do.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: When I listen to that emotional labor crap, how much
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: you know? Yeah, women are the ones who write the
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: the Christmas cards and shop for the presents. But there
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: are also the ones who bring the unbelievable levels of
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: toxic emotional tension. Yeah, and the drama and the accusations
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: and the false accusations that you did this to me
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: when I was a girl and I'll never forgive you.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: And the men are the ones who have to deal
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: with that crap, right, and all of the autistic women
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: as well. Okay, I'm like looking at the transcript, are
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: we going to go through the whole now? Romance novels
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: are used to confine women to blah blah blah?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Is that what we're going to? Where I think we're
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: heading there? Yes? I think so? So Okay, all right,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: here we go.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: Catherine Laidlaw sheds light on this common experience among women.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: One of the women who uses the alias Christine in
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: the article Oh.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot to read the super chow I just got.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Winter gives us ten dollars and says, Honey for the
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: Badger's great show today, Thank you Winter. Okay, I want
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: to make sure I didn't forget.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: Shared how her relationship dynamics with her boyfriend draining her.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: Ten months in, Christine started to notice some red flags
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: and how he approached the necessary tasks that come with
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: keeping a relationship on track. For one, he couldn't plan ahead.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: I rely on you to be my calendar, he'd tell
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: her when she would comment on his lack of initiative,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: and when it came to making dinners together, all the
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: details were on her, from coming up with meals they
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: both liked, to picking up groceries to remember to take
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: the chicken out of the freezer in the morning. Christine's experience,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: which isn't uncommon among women, falls under a form of
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: feelings management called emotional labor coint.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: It's true how how how is how is being the
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: one who gets to decide what you're gonna eat?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: Burden?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: How how is that a burden? I mean, I guess
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: it's like the oh, the emotional burden of having to decide,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: you know, like, yeah, that's not just be told.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Because they tried to at you know, they were trying
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: to initially. This is how, you know how it always
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: gropes to new victimhood. It's like a tree root groping
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: for water.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: It's like it's like the monkey.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, always new branch. Well, they started this victimhood with
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: women have a second shift, and then we did the
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: whole General Social Survey and we found that actually men
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: work i think seven four to seven hours more a
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: week between everything, and in fact, men picked up i
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: think an additional fifteen hours in order for women to
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: go back to work. By the way, guys, did you
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: know that extra fifteen hours of work to in a week.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: But regardless, they looked at that outside the house.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, looks like we can't find victimhood there, so let's
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: go find it in this vague term called emotional labor,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: which now has evolved into having to make decisions. So
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: it's not just having to write letters at Christmas time.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: It's now telling your partner what he needs to do.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: So that is emotional labor, even though he is the
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: one who has to do it. If you have to
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: tell your partner what he needs to do. That is
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: emotional labor, and you are being abused. You know, it
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: usually is considered coercive control, but because it happens to
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: a woman, it's actually emotional labor that she is obligated
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: to do for the man. Right, so she has to
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: make the decisions about what they're going to eat. That's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: her being oppressed by the man because he should make
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: the decision what they're gonna eat and know exactly what
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: she wants.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Well, and if he decides wrong, he's going
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: to hear about it.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So essentially, their entire construct of emotional labor is
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: my man isn't psychic and doesn't do what I want
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: before I tell him? Ah, like that, And then.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: And then if he, if he even if he did,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: guess right what she wanted to have for dinner, maybe
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: she maybe she's just not happy that he would make
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: assumptions like that, like why wouldn't he ask me?
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So, And also that description of emotional labor is
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: any guy watching this, I know there's not a lot
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: of you, but there's a few of you, you realize
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: that that basically applies to anything a woman can contribute
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: to the relationship because she's not describing any additional stuff.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: She's not saying I'm doing this for the cooking. I'm
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: also paying the bills. I'm also keeping the car fixed,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: I'm also mowing the lawn, I'm also fixing the gutters.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: I basically do everything, and he just sits there like
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: a spoilt girly on the couch, taking my bag and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: having his own. You know, that's not saying that. She's
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: just saying, well, I have this chore of taking care
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: of the food. So the fact that they can isolate
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: any chore and they can't say overall, I'm doing more anymore.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: They just isolate a single chore and saying I have
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: to do this mean that if they end up having
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: to do anything in the relationship, you are exploiting them.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and you know, for feminists who are all
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: about the money, right, money doesn't seem to factor into
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: this at all. I mean, like when when I look
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: at my relationship with my husband, right, it's very, very
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: very delineated. Right, I do manage all the bills, and
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: manage all the food, and do all the shopping and
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: do a lot of the exterior maintenance of the house
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: and take the garbage out, and you know, do a
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: lot of stuff like that. Right, I do those things,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: And he generally doesn't have to do any kind of
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: domestic work around the house. I do keep the car
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: filled up, I take it into the shop for repairs,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: all of those things. Right. He doesn't generally have to
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: lift a finger around the house unless there's something too
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: heavy for me to lift or you know, I need
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: an extra set of hands. That's fine. He'll pick up
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: after himself and stuff like that, and you know, put
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: his dishes in the kitchen, right and things like that.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: But it's like, that's fine because he brings in six figures, right,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: And if he's bringing in six figures, and I know
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: how hard he works, because he talks to me about it, right,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: and he asks for my advice on how to manage
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: the office politics and still be able to get some
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: work done. Right, I know how hard he works and
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: how stressful it is. And so it's like to me,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: that seems like a fair exchange, because I mean feminists
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: would argue that, well, if you had to hire somebody
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: a professional to come in and do everything that you do, right,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: or a team of professionals, because you'd need a maid,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: and you'd need a cook, and you'd need a housekeeper,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: and you'd need and you need a grounds keeper, and
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: you'd need you know, a handyman. And oh that would
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: cost way more than one hundred and twenty dollars thousand
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: dollars a year, right, yeah, or you could just do
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: it yourself. I mean, none of this stuff is stuff
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: that you have to hire a professional to do, or
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: not a lot of it. You know, installing the new
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: sewer main, digging up the yard and installing the new
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: sewer main, that required professionals. Right, but snake in my
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: laundry drain, I can do that. Why would I pay
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: somebody to come and do it?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: I heard that. I heard that a one guy actually
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: countered with his wife on that. She she wrote she
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: wrote up everything that he would have had to pay
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: in order to replicate her labor. And then he wrote
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: up everything she would have to pay to get the lawn, mode,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: to get the gutters.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: Because she has to pay she has to pay half
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: of that because this is all half of her stuff, right,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: So she has to pay for all of her own
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: clothes and half the kid's clothes, and you know, and
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: she has to pay for her car and her car's insurance, right,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: she has to end gassing it up and all of
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: these things. And she has to pay for half the food,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: and she has to pay for half of the household supplies,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: half of the furniture, half of everything, half the rent,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: half the mortgage, half the homeowner's insurance, half of everything. Right,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: And once you drill down into what she would owe
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: if she was paying fifty percent of everything that was
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: mutually shared and of her own expenses, her makeup and
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: her toiletries and all of that shit. Right. Meanwhile, he's
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: washing with old spice too in one body wash and shampoo. Right,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: he's got his one toiletry.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when they did that. Yeah, But then you also
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: add in all the work he does, lawn maintenance, car maintenance,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: computer maintenance that they do that if he does any
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: half of the renovations and carpentry work. Okay. And the
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: guy added all of that and came up with a
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: figure that she owed him one hundred and fifty thousand
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: a year. Yep, and never had that argument again. And honestly,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: this is what women need to realize. You are being played,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: you are being poisoned with this idea of unfairness when
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: you are actually receiving an absolutely equal relationship, or even
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: the man is doing four to seven more hours a
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: week in order and compared to his father or his grandfather,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: he's doing another fifteen hours so that you can just
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: go to work and at part time jobs. Yep, like
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: as an unbelievably stupid exchange. Yeah, but we did it.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: This is why. This is why a lot of women
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: back in like when I was a kid, you know,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of women went back to went to work, right,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: and you had these playgrounds all over the neighborhood, these
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: suburbs just sitting empty all day because none of the
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: women were home, all their kids were in daycare. But
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: my mom and one of our neighbors, right, well, one
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: of our neighbors, she took in mending. Right. She just
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: put a want to an ad in the paper, right saying,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: you know, bring your clothes to meet him nd and
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: I'll owe mend them for you for this much money.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: My mom, baby fat. She she she participated in an
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: underground economy. She gardened, She did all kinds of stuff
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: to both save money and like, I don't think we
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: really bought vegetables at the grocery store ever, if they
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: were able to be grown here. And so it's like
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: you have a situation where it's like you can put
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: in the work and the money that you saved is
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: money in your pocket, and the money that you earn't, right,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: the money that you earn being able to be in
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: your own home looking after things, and also being a
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: block parent, because there were kids who were, like, you know,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: out running around and stuff, and they sometimes get in trouble,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: they get lost or whatever, and they need and they
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: look at that sign and they're like, oh, I can
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: go knock on that door.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: So it's like so she and she carpooled for money.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: She fed the neighbor kids' lunches. When you weren't allowed
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: to eat your lunch at elementary school and unless the
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: weather was so bad it was hazardous for you to
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: be made to walk home, and so you had to
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: go home for lunch. And a lot of these mothers
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: were working. So my mom was just like, well, here
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: for like five dollars a week, I'll feed your kid
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: every day. And so there you go. And that's she
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: contributed financially, and she put in a lot of work,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: but she certainly didn't put in as much physical labor
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: as my dad. My dad worked extremely long hours. He
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: was at work by seven every morning, he was off
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: and not home until seven at night. He was a
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: heavy duty mechanic and like you should should have seen,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: Like it was shocking to me because I guess Mom says,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: what's taking your dad so long to wash up? Dinner's
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: getting cold. Go find him And he's in the bathroom
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: trying to pick a shard of metal out of his
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: pupil that got kicked up by a fan in the
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: engine of one of the trucks he was working on.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: And he finished his shift and came home and tried
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: to pick it out with tweezers.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: Good, oh, good lord.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: All right, let's play some more.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 4: Sociologist Arley Hauschild, emotional labor was used to describe jobs
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: that require you to put your feelings aside to get
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: the job done, as in the case of flight attendance, nurses,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: and teachers. But today emotional labor has found.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, my daddy, Yeah yeah, my.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: Dad, my dad my grade nine graduation because he had
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: to drive up to Swan Hills in a rainstorm. This
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: is like an hour and a half away or something
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: like that, right in a rainstorm and fix a truck.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: And he missed his daughter's grade nine graduation ceremony or
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: farewell well ceremony or whatever you want to call it, right,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: And uh, I'm sorry, but I understood it was it
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: was kind of a bummer, but I understood that was
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: his job. He had to set aside his feelings mm
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: hmm and do what needed to be done. Mm hmm,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: like what the fuck? Right? And he always taught me
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: how to do that. That's why. That's why whenever any
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: of the guys in the kitchen cut themselves real bad,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: guess who they called?
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: But did you see who they who? This woman had
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: the audacity of saying, teachers, flight attendance and nurses. Well,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, admittedly you do have to put your yeah, nurses,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: but also doctors and orderlies, yeah yeah, And and pilots
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: and police officers and police officers and e MT and
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: definitely all of the jobs where men have to deal
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: with all kinds of inclement weather. Bugs you know.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: One of those one of those towers that has the
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: blinking lights on top to change videos. Oh my god,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: he didn't have to do anything to get over his
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: emotions to do that.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: This is delicate heinie thinking.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: Oh Jesus, you know what.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: Delicate heinie is. It's it's the it's the whole argument
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: against girls being subject to corporal punishment in the past
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: and schools delicate delicate. Yeah, this is emotional emotional labor,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: and men's work isn't because you ladies have delicate heine's.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's that's a lot of arguments.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: I wish my mom had embraced the delicate heinee philosophy
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: because one of us was getting it at least once
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: a week, and she used a wooden spoon because you're
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: the one being bad. Why should I have to hurt
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: my hand?
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: Mmmm? Yikes. Okay, let's I'm gonna sue.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: I got a super chat from Gary Thomas. He gave
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: us five dollars and says, whenever Karen tells a story
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: about her family, I always think to myself, the Viking
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: spirit runs strong in these people.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the Ukrainian spirit.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 9: Oh and Russian huh Huhadian, that's that's pretty close to Viking,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 9: though you probably do have a lot of Viking evening
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 9: from Russian and Ukrainian.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we got some step people, and then we also
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: got some Native Canadian some first Nations in Akadian. Uh grandfather,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: my Acadian grandfather.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: So I just think about, you know, my my father
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: just did geophysics.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: So yeah, well shall we Uh, that's certainly nothing to
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: be proud of. That's that's pretty it's pretty rough. That's
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: actually like it's not physically rough.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: Oh no, he's he actually uh was one of I
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: thinks six people in the world that could do what
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: he did.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually has a mathematical intellect intellectual challenge, intellectually challenging.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: So he has a mathematical formula named after him. So
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: I think that's so cool. It's called the team in Transform.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: Anyway, let's keep all right, let's play more out space
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: in our personal lives, being used to describe the quiet
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: mental work required to keep a relationship or household humming.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: But like, why does that responsibility fall mostly only on women,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: mostly only mostly.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: Only mostly only yes.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 3: Because the women are up on the ladder cleaning the gutters, right,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: Like when when we went to my mother in law's
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: place to help her with her yard because her knee
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: was all messed up and it needed the grass needed cutting,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: and all kinds of things needed doing, and all of
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: the dangerous stuff and the difficult stuff is done by
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: the the man, Yeah of course, yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: But they don't count that like that. Anything anything outside
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: the home is not of the home apparently.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: Well except for the gutters and and your yard is
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: part of your home mm hmm, unless you're gonna rent
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: it out to someone else.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: No, But they they don't think like the women who
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: think the delicate heine. Women don't think that anything outside the.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: Home is outside the house.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, outside the house, yes.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: Including the outside of the house. Yeah, including the outside
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: the siding and the shingles, and the.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: Even inside the house. But requiring anything that is a tool, yeah,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: because if.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: You can't, if you can't call it a utensil, then
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: they don't want anything to do with it.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or they don't even recognize it exists.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: Even my daughter has a freaking uh uh cordless screwdriver, right,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: you know, And and she she bought it for her
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: and her brother to use. They live in in the
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: they share uh half a duplex together, And and she'll
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: use that thing. She she's got no problem, she knows
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: how to. She was my assistant when I was renovating
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: this house before we moved in. M she rewired all
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: the switches and the and the outlets, and she did
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: a bunch of painting and a bunch of you know,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: using the saws and and measuring and cutting and all
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: of that stuff. Right, so she learned a lot about tools.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Okay, So let's let's the interest of eventually getting
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: through this.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: Let's see, I'm going to jump ahead.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Well, I'm curious about the whole about how
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: this is now patriarchal control.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: Why women work harder in a relationship than men?
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Me to play this bit or go into the next bit,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: which is, uh, toxic tropes in romance?
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: No, actually, let's do this, let's do yeah, yeah, I
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: want to hear this, yes.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, playing it from here, all right, here we go.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: Offers one possible answer, which is that many relationships are
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 4: between two people who are at different emotional maturities, with
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 4: men commonly being more emotionally immature. But why, like, why
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 4: are they more commonly more emotionally immature?
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: Well, well these days because they're raised by single moms.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: But you wouldn't want to have that conversation.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: No, no, I don't think that.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think well, I know that they. I know
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: that boys tend to mature a little bit later than
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: girls do.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah they do, but think yeah, go ahead, but they
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: reach a higher Okay, she's mistaking vomiting your emotions all
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: over everyone around you as emotional masks. She's mistaking it
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: for emotional mastery. See. I can do with it what
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: a toddler can do. So I am emotionally mature. And
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: this man sucks it up, doesn't act out right and
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: and just finally you'll push him far enough that maybe
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: he'll raise his voice and call you a cunt.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: Right, but on Twitter against your band.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 10: He's generally Really I got reported for just saying your
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 10: strategy is to appeal, is to demand stuff from men,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 10: but be a cunt about it, for just using that, for.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: Just saying that, Okay, I'm still appealing it, so we'll see.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: But no, continue with.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: Your okay, but but yeah no. So it's like most
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: men suck it up and get whatever task they have
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: to do done. They are not as interested in administrative tasks, right,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, like this is why when women, when women
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: go out in the workforce, they're mostly doing what they
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: would be doing home. Janet Bloomfield. She she revealed this perfectly.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: Their administrative assistance. So they keep a man's calendar, keep
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: a boss's calendar. They run his errands her his or
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: her errands for her for them. He uh. They they cook, cook,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: they serve food, right, They clean, they teach children. They
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 3: are the hands on healthcare professional, right. Who who kisses
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: your booby, your your sorry, your your boo boo booby
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: or your booby, but your boo boo when you're in
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: the hospital, makes you feel holds your hand, makes you
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: feel comfortable, makes you feel reassured while you wait for
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 3: the doctor, sometimes for over an hour. Right, So you know,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: like they're doing those tasks, those are all tasks that
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: they would be doing at home if they were housewives.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: They managed bills, right, They juggle you know, they juggle money, right,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: They do book keeping right, their accountants, right. These are
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: these are the things that they do when they go
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: out and work primarily, right, and and those are the
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: things they'd be doing at home. They just have to
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: do all of them. They'd have to be a jill
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: of all of those things, as opposed to a jack
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: of all of those things.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 6: Mm hmm.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: All right, Uh, Alsie, you're talking, but I can't hear you.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: You're muted. Well, sorry, okay, there you go. I got it.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: And she dropped No she said she had to go.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: No, she did not say that she had to Yes.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: She she said I got it, and then she put
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: a thumb down.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: Oh well she's gone. Okay, I'm gonna wait until she
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: comes back and see if she needs me to like
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: re enter her on the thing.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 6: But yeah, I mean you tried.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: Have you tried log and off and then back on again.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 4: The reasons is the difference in socialization between young girls
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 4: and young boys, and that carries into how young adults
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 4: are socialized and how grown adults are socialized. Like we're
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 4: all socializing each other, and there is a difference according
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: to psychologists and sexual.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: All right, uh back, yeah, you're back, Mike, Michael.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: There's the the my sure microphone is jury rig because
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: the uh, the USBC broke off, so I have to
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: use this sort of elaborate system. That's if it gets bumped, like,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: it goes to crap. So unfortunately, I think it's because
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: the cat keeps rubbing up against it. Maybe, but anyway, Yeah,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: so I probably should just like maybe take some stuff
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: and it'll be fine.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So just what you what you miss briefly claiming
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: that all men are emotionally immature because they're socialized to
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: be emotionally immature. And she's going to get into this
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: article by Sarah Fielding entitled Understanding Gender Roles and their
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: Effect on Our Relationships. So we're going to get into
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: some more socialization and all of that. Okay, here we go.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: Full wellness therapists Sata deep A som gender roles can
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 4: have a significant impact on our relationships by creating power
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 4: imbalances and limiting our ability to express ourselves authentically. When
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: we internalize traditional gender roles, we may feel pressure to
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: conform to certain expectations of how men and women should
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: behave in relationships. This can lead to frustration, resentment, and
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 4: lack of intimacy. Boys This from the.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Woman who demands that she get his bag while we're
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: keeping her own bag. So yeah, she shouldn't have to
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: have any of the traditional roles expected of women, and
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: yet men still need to provide additional provide the traditional
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: benefits that women get from a relationship. And we anybody
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: wondering why men are just I don't know what it is,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: what it's at now. I know that a couple of
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: years ago, the amount of men who are even willing
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: to look for a relationship went down ten percent in
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: like two years. I don't know what it is now
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: if anybody looked at it, are is there anybody? Are
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: there any men left to really want this deal? Like, no,
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: you're not going to be loved.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: I mean more more women are reading romance novels, I
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: mean consuming porn. Yeah, days, so they're obviously like lonely,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: but they're not willing to like actually look in the
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: fucking mirror and do something about it. Instead, they're just
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: online complaining about men. H So, you know, but any.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: Are not really expected to do the work that's required
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: to maintain healthy romantic relationships. They're not given the tools
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: to be vulnerable or to express themselves emails.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: Lady, lady, you expect men to do everything in a courtship.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: Expect your male friends to court you, Like, why.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: Aren't why aren't the Why aren't the men's moms uh
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: teaching them? How? I mean, like the dad's not around,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: you don't like them, so obviously mom's the one that's
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: not showing these boys how they're supposed to act. Like
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: what happening? Well, okay, this problem?
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah? No, Like ask ask any red pilled man, you
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: know what's the first thing that happens when you expose
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 3: your vulnerability to the average modern woman.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think the thing is I don't story, yeah,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: for sure, But I don't think that she's actually saying
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: that men should be expressing themselves. I think that what
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: she's saying is is that men should be like stepping
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: up service to women as and that is how they
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: because she said, let me go back a little bit,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: so we know. So when we internalize traditional dinner roads,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: we may feel pressure to conform to certain expectations about
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: men and women should behave in a relationships. This can
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: lead to frustration, resentment, and.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 4: Lack of intimacy. Boys and men in general are not
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 4: really expected to do the work that's required to.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Healthy so they're not expected to do the work to
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: maintain healthy and romantic relationships. It's not about men expressing
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: their emotions to women or vomiting their emotions. In fact,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: it is about men just doing the work to make
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: women comfortable without you know, without any consideration, without expectation
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: of reward, nothing, just doing what you're supposed to do.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: And if men are not doing that, and they're not
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: reading women's minds, which is essentially what she would call
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: emotional maturity, knowing what a woman wants and anticipating those needs,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: which romance novels does right, like characters in romance novels
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: can read, like the man can read the mind and
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: heart of a woman and he gives it to her,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: and then that woman reads that and says, well, men
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: should be doing this then, and then she looks around
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: and that's not happening. So a manifest del talked about
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: emotional maturity, she's not talking about that. She is simply
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: talking about service. Men's service to women without women putting
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: in any labor, including asking for what they want, because
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: that's too much work. No, it's true. And so it's
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: like in the notebook, what is it?
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: It's not that simple. That was that meme where Ryan
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: Gosling is like, what do you want? And she's like,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: it's not that simple. It's literally that like they that,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: but instead the man because a man says what do
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: you want? While you're just asking her to do all
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: kinds of work to tell you what she wants. She
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't have to do that. She You should know
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: what she wants and you should be able to give
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: it to her. That's what she's talking about.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: Wants to be worn like a skin.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: It's like that episode, that episode of Seinfeld, I think
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 3: it was called the Bench or something like that, right,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 3: and Jerry and Elaine were like trying to like have
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: a sexual relationship again, but it was supposed to be
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 3: casual and you know, so yeah, and it was her
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: birthday coming up, and Jerry didn't have any idea what
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: to get her, and so like he and neither did George,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: and so, you know, they decided on cash, and it's like, well,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: how much are you going to give her?
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: And I was going to give her one hundred and
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: fourteen dollars or something like that, and George was like, well,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: you're sleeping with her. I'm not, so I'm going to
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: give her half that, right, And and then Kramer comes
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: in with this wooden bench and she's like, oh my god,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: it's so wonderful. She's like looking at the cash, going,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: what the fuck is wrong with you? Man? Right, She's like,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 3: oh my god, how did you know, and Cramer's just like, oh,
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 3: when we were walking by the shop window, you mentioned
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: how much you liked it, and so I made a
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 3: note of it, and you know, and she's like that
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 3: was two months ago. And he's like, you know, mind
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: like a steel trap, right, And I'm just like, I'm
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 3: just like, that is like, how are men supposed to
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 3: even like Kramer was able to do that because Kramer
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: is insane.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, obviously men have to be insane. But also
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: Kramer still required emotional labor from her because she had
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: to actually say that she liked the bench. He should
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: have just intuited it by the movement of her eyes
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: across its glossy surface or some.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: Shit like you had to comment on it.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: I just want to point something out about the logic
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: that just occurred. Do you notice how in the quote
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: they were talking about expectations placed on both men and women,
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: and now she's just talking about how and they were
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: talking about how these traditional expectations lead to frustration and intimacy.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: Now we're just talking about how men don't have enough
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: expectations placed on them, expectations of service placed on them.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: Did you notice that it went from expectations on both
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: men and women, frustrating intimacy to her taking that and
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: ignoring nine tenths of the content of it and just say, actually,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: I think she ignored the entirety of it and simply said,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: it's men avoiding expectations. It's it's men not having expectations
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: placed on them that's the problem. Doctor so and so says,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: expectations to gendered expectations are the problem. Manifestelle says, no,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: the problem is there aren't enough of them.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, men aren't or men aren't living up to them.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, let's keep going. And this is a
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: gendered expectation mm.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 4: Hmm romantic relationships. They're not given the tools to be
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 4: vulnerable or to express themselves emotionally and.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: Labor.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: Wait wait, but also because they're not emotional, they're not
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: perceptive of other people's emotions. So it's it's not about
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: there's nothing sympathetic in this towards men. This is how
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: women are affected. There's nothing, no amount of sympathy towards
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: men in this at all. Okay, must be used.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: Can I point something out? The woman whose emotions are
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: the ones that determine the emotional landscape of any particular group.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: She is usually completely completely ignorant of everybody else's emotions.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: This is what I've noticed, Like she doesn't even perceive,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: and if she does, she considers them to be illegitimate.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: So when you say that somebody has to feel emotions
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: to be perceptive of other people's emotions, that's all bullshit,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: because that's.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 3: That's that's clear from a lot of the studies you know,
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 3: Like that, I mean, I think back to twenty fourteen
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: in Sane Claire Shores right, where Stefan Molineux and Warren
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: Ferrell both mentioned noted that being compassionate with your kids
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: is not how to teach them to be compassionate. Mm hmm, right.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: You teach them to be compassionate by being being able
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: to discipline your kids, make them set aside their own
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 3: emotional wants and needs right, force them to put others first,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 3: sometimes wait their turn, and then also let them play freely,
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 3: unsurp supervised with kids near their near their age, in
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 3: order to learn how to hash out disagreements on their
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 3: own and how to compromise within peer to peer relationships.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: So I mean, like being a being a gushing mother
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 3: is not doing your kid any favors. Yeah, so anyway,
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 3: my battery is almost dead here. Let me check out.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, how much more do we have of this? Is
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: she just Manifestelle is deeply She repeats herself quite a bit.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: She repeats herself quite a bit. How much?
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: Well I soon, Yes, I'm gonna try to get to
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: this bit where she tries to reclaim and redefine romance itself.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe that will be of some interest, a lightening.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: I also have to do it.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: So, uh, do you want to do that?
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 4: Now?
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: I could?
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: I could so, Richard Richard Pierre puts in five hundred
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: Richard, Wow, thank you well this.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: And also he did, uh, he did put this through
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: his request. But I chose it because Karen is a
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: romance writer, and I'm trying to have kind of romance
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: in the writing that I'm doing.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: This is definitely the What Not to Do video for sure.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: So well, certainly, like you know, and writing is close
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: to my heart, like the entire the landscape of it,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: I hope the process, but also what's going on in
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: the publishing industry. I honestly think it's dying because it
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: just doesn't It has no creativity anymore. It's just basically
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: xeroxes flying around, xeroxes of xeroxes of xeroxes. And the
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: funny thing is that the more women take over the industry,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: the less women read. Women are stopped, they are no
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: longer there are actually declining as readers too.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think the reason is because the
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: best writers probably like personally, have had, like you know,
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: some serious experiences like that. I think, well, at least
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: the stuff that men want to read. I don't know,
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: But anyway, let's keep going.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 4: Hips or even the lack of a fulfilling relationship. Romance
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 4: novels are a sort of coping mechanism. They create this
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 4: version of a world where love is abundant, emotional needs
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 4: are met, and women are valued for their full complexity
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 4: and are perceived and understood in all of their complexity.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 4: A world where women are cherished, prioritized, even if it's
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: only for a little while. But okay, safe and comforting
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 4: the Roman.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 3: You're not prioritized.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, but you see, all women are not complex, well.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: Not all women are complex, but that where women are prioritized,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: that that's really the key here.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: She demands to be prioritized in every aspect of her
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: life and relationships. Like literally, if you get in a
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: relationship with this woman, all you'll ever do is serve
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: her until she decides that you fall fell short of something,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: and then you will be probably the evil one who
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: was abusing her by falling short of her expectations. Like
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: do you remember that that one statement I had to
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: do chores around making supper? That was a huge red flag.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: Like if you ever fail in this women's expectations, and
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: you will, you will become the narcissist ex that she
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: had to get away from who just couldn't understand her needs.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: Yep, all right, I'm hitting play.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 4: A genre may seem it's not perfect. Buried underneath all
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 4: the good things that the book boyfriends do, how handsome
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: they are, how caring they are, how emotionally mature, even
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 4: fictional are buried underneath all of that are harmful notions
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 4: that if we're not careful enough, can't influence how we
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 4: view women and ourselves and relationships and love itself.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: Can I get in here just for a second, even
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: fictional men created by women are not good enough? Okay,
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: let's find out how. Let's find out how?
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure? Why not?
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 4: For one thing, the concept of romance has historically been
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: weaponized to reinforce the superiority of men over women. From
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 4: Samuel Richardson's Pamela or Virtually Rewarded to the more modern
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 4: day love stories, there are still so many narratives in
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 4: which the female character's worth is tied to her ability
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 4: to attract and keep a man. Not only this, but
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 4: there are still stories that show women as this passive
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 4: recipient waiting to be pursued and rescued by a male
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 4: hero or a savior.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: You mean your.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: Like literally fucking your content.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also this is what makes women wet.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 3: So it's like, talk to women about it, and don't
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: don't blame patriarchal stereotypes. Get women to examine themselves and
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 3: what makes them tick, right because and and don't blame patriarchy,
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 3: don't blame socialization, don't blame any of that stuff. Just
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 3: actually have you know, like every single woman on this
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 3: planet needs to have a crash course in evolutionary psychology.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: They do, okay, well, at least to acknowledge this. But
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: but my point here is just the hypocrisy right in
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: front of us. She would say that a man should
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: do everything in a relationship like she. I would I
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: would honestly challenge Manifestel to tell anyone what she th
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: I thinks a woman should be expected to do in
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: a relationship, because I'm pretty sure it's nothing. Well of service,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: yeah that, Yeah, she's a receptacle of service. Well what
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: do you think this is of the Bella Swan? She
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: was a receptacle of being saved by this the most
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: powerful male in her vicinity. Right you are, you're saying,
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: you're essentially's framing the same idea that woman who talked
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: about having to to decide what was for supper, you know,
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: and do some basic chores to ensure that supper was
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: able to be made on time. Do you know what
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: she is? Bella to Edward. But it's in the framework
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: of making supper. She needs to be saved from having
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: to determine what supper is, from having to do the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: chores of supper. She needs to be saved from taking action. Right,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what the situation is in Twilight. But it's
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: just in smaller scale. Everything that Manifestel can women to
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: do is to be receptacles of service, which are just
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: being saved from things on smaller scales. Yes, and then
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: she complains that women seek out romance. You know what
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: this is? She just doesn't like the competition. Yeah, romance
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: novels are honing in on rom Manifestel's territory eyeballs and
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: attention and clout. I mean, Manifestel knows how best women
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: should be served. Don't read those nasty romance novels from
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: her competition. They don't know how best to serve women.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: How's this best to save them?
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I just wanted to point out the absolute hypocrisy
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: right in front of us. Oh yeah, I know. Women
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: need to recognize that there is a hypergamous quality in
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: them and take responsibility for it if they want to
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: improve this situation.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: But instead need to recognize their own hypergamy, which is
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 3: not along financial or social status lines necessarily, but more
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 3: about attractive physical attractiveness, but and personality, right, the personality
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 3: traits that would make some one a good mother to
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 3: an infant.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, But but the point is that she's selling the
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: very same things that romance novels are selling. Yes, and
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: this is it seems to be more about attacking the
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: competition and not have women continue to blame men for
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: what women want from men. Mm hmm, Like, did you
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: imagine if men did this, Like Karen was talking about
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: how you know that that hypergamiamendment men blaming women for
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: making them want slender, youthful women.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: Well, they can't even like they can't even be concerned
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: with a woman's body count without being shamed by the
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: whole internet.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, but could you imagine I know, we don't.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: We couldn't. I don't think it would be I don't
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: think we would. Other men would hold those men accountable.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: Not only would men openly say that they prefer young,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: slender women. If a woman said, but you know, I'm
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: I'm an older, not very slender woman that you know
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: that you don't desire. If a woman said that, she'd
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: be censored. Those men would say, how dare you in
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: any way impune our character?
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 3: Night?
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, you you're you're you're worthless because you're not the
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: thing that we desire. I'm just saying it'd be so
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: fascinating to be in a reversal in bizarro world where
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: everything was reversed, and then also saying it's your fault,
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: that it's the matriarchy's fault that we desire young, youthful women.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: And the ridiculous thing is is that women actually do
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 3: set certain beauty standards, right. You know it used to
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: be that women who were tan and that was that
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 3: was like a female driven fad. Women who were very slim,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 3: female driven fad. Also like gay men in the in
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 3: the fashion industry. And uh and so I mean like
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: and even you know, sort of heavily made up women,
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 3: heavily quaffed women, right. A lot of men just don't
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: care about that kind of stuff. In fact, a lot
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 3: of men are turned off by a ton of makeup.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 3: And you know those long fucking Cardi B nails, you know,
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 3: like welcome to an invitation to an injury during sex.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't even know how Cardi B hasn't
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: stabbed her own child yet with those things. Right.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, wasn't there in Japan
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: there was a a female lion if she was a
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: queen or an empress or a princess, and her teeth
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: were black, and so all the women would back in
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: their teeth because they thought it was like fashionable.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah it was. I think might have been Queen Elizabeth
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: because she had famously Japanese.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: Japanese.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're right, Yeah, that that became a fashionable thing.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking, like, to take my bizarro world,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: it would be a world in which humperd Ink was
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: the was the victim, and Lolita was the aggressor. That
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: in that world, because you know, you get all the
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: female jailers and the juvenile detention facilities saying he seduced
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: me to a kid in jail to child in jail.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, well, I mean even if even if he
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: did come on to you, right, it's your job, as
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 3: the person in a position with who has in a
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 3: position of authority, with a duty of care, to say no.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually speaking of of cops and people in
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: positions of power and the justice system. You remember that
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: that cop that had sex with her entire precinct and
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: then claimed that she was being groomed.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: I said to.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: Somebody, you know, if we can't hold her accountable for
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: her choices, if she can't say no to these guys
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: in this context with no actual physical.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 3: Pressure because she didn't know, how can she even be.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: And they were saying, oh, you're a victim blamer. I'm like, no,
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: do you understand the concept of holding women to a
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: standard of responsibility consistent with being a law officer. Officer
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: of the law, no answer, Yeah, because they can't. Like
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: just like Manifestel, there's nothing there. Women have responsibility to nothing.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just want to say, as an aside, I'm
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: glad that Robert Pattinson, who played Edward in these movies
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: has moved on to do some really great work and
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: what's her name hasn't really done shit. So I just
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: wanted to say, because he was in Like the Lighthouse
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: and he played Batman, and I think he's in something
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 2: new that just came out recently. So Robert and Robert
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: Pattinson just did Twilight to get his foot in the door,
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: and now he's doing like the stuff he really wants
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: to do, and I'm happy for him. And what's her
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: name is not so much. She's basically just become an
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: activist that works in Hollywood.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: But she probably liked the material or something.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: Well I think it was. It was a job and
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: they were both pretty young, so they bought it a
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: break in and I'm sure but anyway, so Pepito, Pepito
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: gives us ten dollars and says, one day manifestel will
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: be played in training cycles for young cyborgs to learn
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: about an old society dying of gender ideology. Thanks for
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: the show, Well, thank you, sir. Anyway, so uh let's
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: uh well, let me just check my time codes. I
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: think we're we're getting to the point. This is like
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: the kind of the the money shot of this video.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 4: The Twilight saga has culturally defined a lot of women's
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 4: teen hoods. Like bella Swan, she was that girl. Everyone
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 4: wanted to be her, Everyone wanted to have an Edward.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 4: And there was also like team Jacob, Team Edward, like
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 4: it was the whole thing. And you know how much
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 4: Twilight has informed my teen hood slash early adulthood. You
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 4: went to forks.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because she thinks that's bad for the
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: women who read those books, But I think it's bad
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: for the men who had to basically compete with Edward
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: and Jacob.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 3: But I think I think I think she's describing her
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 3: disease here and and you know, and it's it's like, okay,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 3: so what came first, right, fentanyl or your morphine addiction?
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: I mean like basically she had a personality and Twilight
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 3: really appealed to it, and yeah, and so, but she's
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: claiming making the claim now that like, oh, it's it's
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 3: not a it's not a situation where someone someone is
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 3: already a certain way and then you know, this book
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: or movie or whatever maybe pushed them in that direction
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 3: a little bit. Right, Like, so a car was a
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 3: car is already pulling left right, and you can you
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 3: can let go of the steering wheel and and it'll
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 3: put you into the ditch on the other side of
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 3: the road, right, or you can hold the steering wheel
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 3: right and and try and keep it straight right or
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: pull over to the right. She's she's kind of acting
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 3: like there was no original problem with the car pulling
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: left right, that she had an original problem right, or
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: an original way of being and seeing the world right,
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 3: And then came across this material that really appealed to
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 3: that way of being and way of seeing the world,
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 3: and it pushed her a little bit further, and maybe
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 3: it has been such an influence on her so reinforcing
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 3: of what she already was that now she has become
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 3: this whatever the fuck she is now?
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 6: Right, Okay, but.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, there was something there to work with. There was
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 3: a reason that book and that movie appealed to you.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 10: Mm hmm.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: I just have a big question. That's that it's been
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: sort of burning this entire time. I noticed that she's
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: in a chair in the corner. Is she a cook queen?
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't speculate if we turned one hundred and eighty
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: degrees would she be would we be watching something a
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: lot more interesting?
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, that's petty, all right, so a little bit
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: uh ZARANX gives us five dollars super chat and says
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: Christen Stewart isn't the driver of the Twilight films. I
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: unfortunately read the Twilight series. Remember that series sparked fifty shades?
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: Why did you read that? It wasn't for you, dude? No,
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: of course not, because Christian Stewart plays Beliswan. Belliswan is
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: essentially just a template for women to embody. So like, yeah,
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: Male fiction is usually a story that is aspirational about
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: someone else that men are looking at and sort of
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: admiring from afar from the third person perspective, right, Guys
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: like yeah, aspirational figures. Guys like Odysseus, and they like Hercules,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: and they like you know, Luke Skywalker or whatever. They
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: just like to see them do their thing. They like
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: fro do.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: But when women read fiction, they want to be the
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: person in the story, so they write the character for
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: those fictions aimed at women in such a way that
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: any woman they can feel like anybody. So they're they're
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: kind of like blank.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, blanks into a blank template. Right.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: So the Twilight books are going to make bella swan
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: like basically a nothing, just like an empty space, whereas
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: the character is. Yeah, the characters are all of the
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: men that are attracted to her or around her. So
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: you know, look at there was a show it was
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: basically like a more mature version it's Whylight called True Blood.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: It was on HBO. It's based on some books too,
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: and it's the same kind of stuff, these steamy romance
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: novels where Suki, who was like this waitress in the
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: South that you know, had a was like a nobody
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: that for whatever reason, nobody noticed. But the vampires fell
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: in love with her, and like the werewolves fell in
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: love with all the supernatural, powerful, strong male characters wanted
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: to be around her. They wanted to be with her.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: That was all just so that the the women, the
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: women reading the books couldn't inject themselves into that. Fifty
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: Shades of Gray is the same. It's basically just Twilight
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: fan fiction. And and it's just being repurposed for the
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: same ring. And that was like a movie. I just
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: thought about this. There's a movie at least called Honora
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: and it won the Oscars, Like I swept the Oscars
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: this year, nobody watched the Oscars. But but it was
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: a film literally about a stripper that meets like a
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: you know, a rich Russian like foreign guy who is
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: basically pretty woman but like sluttier. And it's basically just
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: that taking and it's all all of this is this
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: kind of weird wish fulfillment for three or four women
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: that are like, oh yeah, you know, I have like
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: if it's a stripper that finds a good man and
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: they fall in love and they get married like really quick,
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: and you know, I don't know where it goes from there,
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: but the point is there is this fantasy of finding
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: a high status man and uh, you know, he woos
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: her and she whatever resists like for a while, but
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: eventually caves and gets with him. And that's kind of
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: like that is the fantasy. And and manifestel. Yeah, she's
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: basically doing a self report.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 3: Well pretty you know, pretty woman. Pretty Woman was actually
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed it. But part of that was that the
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 3: Julia Roberts character was actually charming. She was charming and
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 3: she's funny, and she was quirky and she, you know,
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 3: she had a personality and you know, and it's like, Okay,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 3: I can enjoy that, and I don't like but but
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 3: Bella or whatever the fuck her name is in Twice.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she never read those books.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: I've never read them.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: But I have heard so many complaints from thoughtful uh
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 3: sort of writers, thoughtful writers of romance and fiction right
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 3: and critics of it right, thoughtful ones that that she's
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: she's just basically a cardboard cutout. She's there for the
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 3: reader to insert and so she has to be nondescript,
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 3: she has to be uh to have no personality, because
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 3: if she had a personality, uh you, the reader wouldn't
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 3: be able to insert herself into the character, into the role.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, but let's let us because I know,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: I know, I know.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 3: My batteries, got my batteries, got sixteen minutes left, Okay.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: Zara gives us another super chat and says for two dollars,
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: I was without hobbies, not watching TV and board. Non excuse.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: But okay, all right, let's move on. Uh oh yeah,
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna jump ahead. Actually, she just goes into like
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: her unless you want to hear like her thing about Twilight.
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: But I think you basically already only.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 3: If it includes any kind of realistic self reflection of
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 3: not what she was and why the book appealed to her.
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 2: No, she basically talks about how Bella's identity revolves around Edward. Again,
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: I think that's a no literacy problem.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that Edward's identity revolves around Bella.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: Seriously, guys, Like, what are you guys talking about?
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 3: Bella's identity revolves around the reader, whoever's reading at the time.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, are you freaking nuts that Bella has no
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: identity because the identity is supposed to be that of
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: the reader and Edward has no existence outside of Bella.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: No, I know, I know, exactly. All right, let's listen.
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 4: They tend to glorify toxic really relationships because a toxic
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 4: relationship is better than no relationship. Instead of describing possessiveness,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 4: jealousy and control as the unhealthy behaviors that they actually are.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 4: We interpret this kind of behavior as romantic because, oh
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 4: my god, he's so scared of losing her. Instead of
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 4: seeing emotionally unavailable and brooding men as people who might
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 4: not be ready or equipped to be in a relationship,
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 4: we'd rather see a woman's love transform and fix them. Allah,
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 4: I can fix him, And this does lead women into
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 4: thinking that I can fix him whenever they see a
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 4: fixer upper man, instead of recognizing that someone's personal development
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 4: is not our task, especially a full grown adult man's.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, he has to want that for him, all right,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: you guys. Wanting dark triad men has nothing to do
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: with the patriarchy. In fact, the patriarchy that you describe.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: The kind of expectations put on women is to get
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: them away from any kind of situation with a dark
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: triadmin that's all on you. Like women just for whatever reason,
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: they just love them themselves. Some sociopaths. So all of
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: the crap that Edward callin God that made him attractive
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: to the female audience who are literally attracted to aspects
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: of sociopathy in men and and narcissism. What what you
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: would term patriarchy does is it tries to raise women
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: or girls in such a way that they start to
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: realize that the upstanding man with personal virtues and values
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: and a sense of response yet and responsibility and conscientiousness
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: is more attractive than the dark, brooding guy who will
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: leave you with a black eye as much as kiss you.
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like Gilgamesh at the start of the epic is
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 3: more attractive than Gilgamesha at the end of the epic.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you need to have You need to raise
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: girls with expectations and priorities that make them realize that
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: dark child men are not attractive, or they are attractive,
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: but they're going to ruin you. I think that's what
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: the whole ruination of women is about. It's basically saying,
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: you got something that this dude can take away from you.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: Don't don't let him go for the guy who's conscientious,
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: hard working, wants to build a community, that kind of thing, right.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: But women, but women want the drama though, that that's
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: why they read these books. Like she's saying it shouldn't
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: be but then there's no plot at all. Women want
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 2: the men that need them, Like what is fifty shades
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: of Gray about is the broken baby bird that also
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: happens to be a multi billionaire at a huge cock
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 2: and he needs, you know, an a stage steel to
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: save him. Yeah, it is a power fantasy exactly the
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: women she is going to for women exactly on an
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: extremely powerful, dangerous man that's like a dark triad man,
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 2: but there is a good man underneath, and only this
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: woman can save him from himself. It is like Beauty
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: and the Beast.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: One woman, well, the Disney adaptation of the original, because
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: the original.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 3: Was not like that.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 2: But no, yeah, I was thinking about the TV show
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: with Ron Perlmer.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: She's taking a female a female power fantasy, which is
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: this idea that you can reform the dark triad man
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: and somehow turn him into without losing attraction to him.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: By the way, Yeah, the other thing turn him into
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: that conscientious servant. Right, that's the power fantasy. And she's
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: looking at that and she's saying, patriarchy did this to it. No, No,
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: if anything patriarchy would tell you are patriarchy or expectations,
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: traditional expectations based on women would try to move you
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: away from the dark triad man and not involving yourself
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: with him at all that's your power fantasy. And again,
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: like what Karen said earlier, there's a lot that women
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: need to look in the mirror and take responsibility for
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: here and stop blaming it on.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 3: Men or patriarchy or patriarchy.
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, is this we have a little bit more?
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: Uh well, I mean she gives just kind of says
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 2: that he should be fixing himself before he meets a
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: woman or something like that. But of course he doesn't
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: understand that women get.
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 3: Fix Yeah, if he if he did that, no woman
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 3: would want him.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: The dark triad mad man is not going to fix
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: himself because he's already getting your attraction.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 3: Like he's like Casanova, right, the dark triad man is Casanova,
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 3: and he's getting laid left, right and centers, and he
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 3: doesn't doesn't have to like commit to anyone woman, and
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 3: and so know like basically, uh, you're you're looking at
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 3: if women are throwing themselves at dark triad men. And
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 3: then like she's gonna get even if she marries him, right,
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 3: she's she will soon be bored by the fact that
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 3: he's no longer a dark triadmin.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: Well, he still will be, but he'll be be upset
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: by his behavior if he if he genuinely is a
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: dark triadmin she'll become upset with his behavior. But the
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to point out is when she
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: says a fixer upper, because we have been party to
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: the extended universe of manifestell terms, she means a man
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: who's like still going through med school, Karen. Oh, she
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't even really mean the psychopath.
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: She means he.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: Hasn't gotten a partnership in the in the high powered
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: law firm that he's employed at. Basically, Manifestol wants to
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: marry a man one second before he rolls into his
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: grave and then and then she can inherit his billions.
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she wants to be like that chick who was
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 3: a stripper, wasn't she.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah she was a playboy Playmates and she was a
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: guess model.
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 3: But yeah, totally yeah, And and it's just like yeah, no, okay,
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 3: that's I mean, if you look like Pamela Anderson or whatever,
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 3: Ana Nicole Smith, you can manage that maybe you know
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 3: one out of every one hundred times, right, But but yeah, no,
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 3: most women are never in the way of those men, right,
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, like this is either this is this is
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 3: why you literally had. Uh the idea of the mrs
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 3: Degree right, where you go to you go to school,
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 3: go to college, and you meet a man and you
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 3: get married while he's still you know, while probably while
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 3: he's still in school. You put your school career aside,
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 3: you have your kids, you go back, you finish your
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 3: schooling right when your kids are in elementary school, and
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 3: then and then you pick up your career, right, And
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 3: that's how you do it. And that's generally it's a
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 3: it's a good strategy because you're you're putting yourself in
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 3: the way of men who are going to be successful,
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 3: and you help them become successful by performing emotional labor
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 3: I guess, right, and uh, and then you end up
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 3: in a committed marriage, right, You don't. You don't get
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 3: to just have the perfect man without contributing anything to
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 3: how he got there.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that is what she expects, you know.
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 3: He he has to build himself up. He has to
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 3: he has to really just like become he has to
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 3: become Elon Musk. And only then, only then, when he's
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 3: a billionaire, will you deign to consider him?
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, she yeah, sure,
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk or any other billionaire man, but not until
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: the moment he's about to be dead. She wants to
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: marry a billionaire the instant before she died. He dies
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: because she wants he does not want the man.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she just wants his bag.
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: She just wants his bag. And look at that those
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: those Okay, I'm gonna be petty, Brian, look at those
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: cold soulless eyes my eyes, yeah, or crab eyes, a
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: crab's eyes. Look, guys, this is what you can This
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: is what you can get if you just make yourself
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: good enough.
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 3: You know what, you know, I forget who it was.
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 3: Was on Patrick Bett David's podcast, and he he got
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 3: the guys on the panel to to make some facial
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 3: expressions and he was like, Okay, that's that's you know,
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 3: like when you when you frown, right, you get the
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 3: crease between your between your brows, and you know, like
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 3: everything is like it looks like a genuine frown. Right.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 3: When you smile, it looks like a genuine smile. Right.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 3: Sociopaths have to practice in the mirror and they can
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 3: never quite mimic it. And if you see a perfectly
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 3: unlined face right that is expressionless like this, you're probably
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 3: dealing with somebody who does not who has to practice
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 3: in the mirror.
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, the quote I was trying to say is
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: from Jaws, you know, the thing about a shock. He's
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes when
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: he comes at you. Doesn't seem to be living.
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, you can. You can be a billionaire and
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: earn yourself one of these. Yeah, I love doll probably
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 1: would have a more intimate expression on its face. At
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: least it doesn't look like it's about to take a
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: chomp out of you every time, every time she's not talking.
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, device will powered down soon if I drop.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: All right, are we done?
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: We could be We could be done. She basically says that,
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: you know, women have to write new fiction that's some
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: somehow doesn't include men in it.
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't know.
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 1: Let's hear it from her. Let's hear from her.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean this is like a build up to it.
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: I don't have the actual quote to look through.
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 3: The tryst All right, well, you guys, guy.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 4: Is the modification of romance?
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: And well, I mean I I yeah, this is a
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: whole nother introduction that Yeah, okay, so that's the sum total.
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: The problem with romance novels, according to Manifestel, is that
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: there are men in them, that we should be replacing
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: the men with everything that the man does and provides
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: the female character, but no actual men, and then it
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 1: would be perfect. I don't know how you do it, Like,
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe she gets romanced by a disembodied spirit doesn't exist,
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: or maybe what ultimately Manifestel is groping for is her
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: own agency, but she will never recognize it because it
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: terrifies her.
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 3: All right, I'm done here, people A right, goodbye, Karen.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: All right, So do you have anything further you want
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: to say?
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: Brian, No, I mean, I'm I'm okay with us getting
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: rid of romantic love because I don't think it's necessary.
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's like it's a it's a it's a
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: kind of a made up thing, and it's just for
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 2: women at the end of the day. So if Manifestel
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: wants to help with that, I will co sign on that.
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: I think that romantic love is where you get this
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: kind of like concept of schilveric love. I'm not saying
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: like I'll put it another way, okay, it I don't.
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: I don't mean that men and women shouldn't, like, you know,
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: try to come together and love each other. But I
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: think romantic love is a kind of scam that people
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 2: like manifestel and you know various like I don't know,
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: corporations they partake in to try to make a buck
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: and exploit men. And if it all went away tomorrow,
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: I'd be okay with it because men and women would
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: still you know, fall in love, financi other, get married
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: all that. In fact, it might even be easier because
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: then women wouldn't have crazy expectations. So yeah, I mean
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: I think that it's kind of like this weird fiction
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: that women like to think about because they like to
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 2: look at it as something they benefit from. Yeah, I
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 2: think we could do without it, so it's okay. I mean,
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 2: what's happening now is I think the product of it,
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: like the late the landscape of dating and courtship as
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: it stands, like the where it is right now. I
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: think that's a product of this concept, this modern concept
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: in particular of romantic love, which is something that women
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: have been basically like trying to normalize, and it changes
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: their expectations from men. It changes the expectations from what
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: it means to be a girlfriend, a wife, a mother,
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: you know, and all of that. And and if it
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: all was gone, I think that the only there will
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: be women that would stick, that would stick around and
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 2: form families, but they wouldn't do it for selfish reasons
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 2: because I think that romance romance to women is a
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 2: selfish thing. And you know, men want to be good
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: to women, I think, and they want to treat them well,
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 2: and they want to like, you know, be good husbands
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: and supporters and you know, and providers for their families.
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah, romantic love doesn't do them any favors. I
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: think that's when Peter Wright is that Peter Wright. Peter
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 2: Wright talks about ginocentrism. That's what he's talking about. And
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 2: I think that that is something that we should at
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: the very least be criticizing.
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, I'm going to give an alternative view now.
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: I definitely will criticize the kind whatever the hell Manifestel wants,
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: which is basically romantic love without any kind of recognition
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: of men at all, like absent the man. Somehow she
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: wants a romance what makes her feel desired and loved
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: and everything else, but without having to involve a man
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: at all. So that isn't even romance, that's just narcissism.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: And honestly, I really quite enjoyed that one quote unquote
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: romantic novel in which the woman actually went on a
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: hero's journey to save the man she fell in love
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: with because he was a captive and he was compromised
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: actually mentally by his captivity. And I think that there's
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: a place for that. And honestly, I don't want to
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: start talking about getting rid of genres. I'm saying that
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: because once you start like but once you start doing that, like,
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: once you start getting or suggesting removing human expression instead
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: of saying, well, yeah, romance that does whatever it is
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: manifestal wants, which is just exclusive focus on the woman
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: to the exclusion of the man. You know, it's not
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 1: particularly healthy, and she just seems to stay to be saying, well,
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: let's do Twilight, but make it even more just focused
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: on the female character with no relation to the male whatsoever.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: So I want a romance that makes me feel loved
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: and desired in the center of attention. But I don't
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: want to have to deal with a man. I don't
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: want the man to be involved at all. I don't
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: want it to come from a man which is insane.
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: It's like that is the absolute essence of her insanity.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: And I would like to say that the women who
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: are doing that kind of whatever it is, are not
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: in the same category. Is that one author who wrote
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: the romance, the science fiction romance about the woman moving
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: hell and earth to save the man that she fell
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: in love with, I would say that that was a
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: different category writing. And I wouldn't want to necessarily get
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: rid of that, you know what I mean, because I
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: found it edifying and not lopsistic way.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but I mean, isn't it though, isn't it
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 2: also true that that is an extremely rare example of
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 2: something that goes against the grain, whereas ninety nine percent
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 2: of romance is exactly the kind of stuff that manifestel
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 2: and so many women like. So when I say it
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: needs to go, I'm talking about that, and I'm not
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: even really talking about writing anything per se, because I
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: don't want to censor anything. But I think, yeah, no, attitude,
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 2: I agree, change, Yeah.
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, the attitude has to change. But when the attitude changes,
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 1: then the romance will change. So I mean censoring it
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: or maybe that it wasn't what you're getting at maybe
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 1: we're getting getting.
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: On the other thing that, Yeah, go ahead.
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 1: If we're going to start talking about forms of expression,
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 1: you know, causing damage to relationships, I think then we
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: also have to introduce the conversation about porn. And it's like,
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: I think the better conversation to be had there is
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: why are people doing it? And for for for men,
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's tremendous frustration. For women, I think I
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: think it's I don't know, it's the end of this
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: kind of belief about ourselves that women exist as receptacles
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: of service and being saved, and we just need to
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: get out of that. And there's nothing I don't think
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: there's anything that men can do to get women out
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: of it. They have to choose for themselves to start
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: taking the first steps out of being a fucking receptacle.
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: Mm hm you know. So, I don't know, maybe I
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 1: was misunderstanding what your point was.
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, like, well, Manifestel's I'll just say
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 2: last thing about this. So her conclusion is that the
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 2: way we write romance has to change. We have to
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: we have to redefine love, we have to redefine romance.
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: That's what she is saying, and I think that there
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 2: are probably a lot of women that would agree with
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: most of what she is proposing, but the way that
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 2: she wants to change it essentially destroys it, of course, right,
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 2: And I'm saying that that's okay because people who are
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 2: doing like real work will just keep doing real work.
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 2: So I want her to see I want to see
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: that to it.
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 6: Maybe maybe what.
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: You're thinking is that it'll burn. It's like a forest
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: fire that burns itself out.
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if it even happens, because at no point does
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: she actually challenge like women's taste, right, She just sort
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 2: of says, oh, it isn't woman centered enough, right, yeah?
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so make it so woman centered the man
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't even exist in.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like that does.
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 1: Let's see that does?
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. When I think of death as more of a
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: change than an erasure, so, like you know, like the
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 2: in Taro, the death card doesn't mean death, it means change.
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 2: And so because it will not be the same as
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 2: it was, so essentially the old whatever dies and then
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 2: there's a new thing. And I hope manifest Self follows
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 2: through on that, because I think that's gonna kill whatever
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: it is She's trying to do. Yeah, and and they'll
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: be like whatever is actually speaks to people will be
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 2: the thing that persists.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's a great idea, Like, yeah, sure, go
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 1: forth and make your romance that just that manages to
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 1: make women feel special and the center of attention and
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: desired and loved and have men sacrificed for them, but no,
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: man like just managed to make It's like that feeling
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: like we talked about before with Dark Matter, the feeling
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: of rightness, you know, not being right or not pursuing
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 1: the truth, but just feeling like you're right. That's what
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 1: he was trying to give to his audience, just the
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: feeling of being right. She wants to give women the
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: feeling of being sacrificed for but without men. Jesus Christ,
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: all right, sorry, I took the Lord's name in vain.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: That's all right, Okay, So we got super chow from
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: our super chat from his aar.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: I got a super chat from Zaraanks for two dollars.
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 2: He says, Manifestel wants the transhumanist utopic future. Oh no,
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 2: the handmade sale plus transhumanism. It's the it's double, okay,
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: She wants the mood organ from Do Androids Dream of
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: Electric Sheep, which didn't end up in the actual film,
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 1: but terms the mood organ from that movie, she wants
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: to be able to dial up the feeling of being desired.
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 3: And that's it.
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, So are we ending of the show to
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 2: go pick up Lindsay pretty soon?
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: I think that we've pretty much covered everything that we
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: could possibly squeeze out of this squeeze spawn. I don't know,
• 2:23:48
  Speaker 1: all right, So if you enjoyed the show, you want
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 1: to send us message, you can do so at feed
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: the bit, just feed the Badger dot com slash just
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 1: the tip anytime after the show is over, because it's
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: gonna stay live, and we get the full benefit of
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 1: whatever funds you send, and you get the benefit of
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 1: sending your comment not through YouTube's comment thresh your system.
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 1: I'm actually wondering if maybe I should merge the support
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 1: and the just the tips so that it's a little
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 1: bit more streamlined. Hey, you can you can tell me
• 2:24:14
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• 2:24:18
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• 2:24:22
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• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: you can help us the very best and back to you, Brian.
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, if you guys liked this video, please hit like, subscribe.
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• 2:24:33
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• 2:24:34
  Speaker 2: about what we discussed on the show today. There's a
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 2: link to the full video and the description if you
• 2:24:39
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• 2:24:45
  Speaker 2: for coming on today's episode of The Rantzirker, and we
• 2:24:47
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• 2:24:51
  Speaker 11: Men's Right activists are machines, dude. Okay, they are literal machines.
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 11: They are talking point machines. They are in possible to
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 11: fucking deal with, especially if you have like especially if
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 11: you have like a couple of dudes who have good memory.
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 11: On top of that too, holy shit, you're fucked