Latest / Pod Save America / New Polling on Trump’s Felony Conviction

Transcript

New Polling on Trump’s Felony Conviction · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Tommy.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I know you've been doing the pods anyway, but you're
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: now officially back from paternity.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm now officially back. I just completed The Amazing Race. No,
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: I had a son. A little boy named James. How's
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: James doing? He's doing great. I mean, you know how
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: it is. The newborn, they don't do a ton. They sleep,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: they eat, you console them. So I've been spending a
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: lot of time with Lisette, my 17-month-old daughter. who Hannah
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: can't pick up because she had a C-section. So Lizette's
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: kind of like, I'm on duty. And that has honestly
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: been so much fun. I know. She's a blast.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I felt the same way about Charlie. But now that
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Teddy's five months old and he's starting to like do
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: things and smile at you, you know, Emily every once
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: in a while is like, you do have a second son.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Have you seen him today?
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: And James, if you're listening to this in 18 years, uh-oh.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: But no knock on you. You're adorable. I love you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: You're fun. But Lizzie's just like such a goofy, hilarious
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: kid at this point.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: So it's been very fun. Our other co-host is still
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: on reality TV show leave. We just got a weather
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: report that.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Apparently it has been very rainy where he is. Mm-hmm.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: What's up? Where he presumably is.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, we don't know.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: We don't know. We literally don't know. We think he's
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: organizing Americans abroad.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: And * * * *.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: But, again, we're not sure. Is that what Bloomberg won? Yeah.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's accusing Jeff Probst of reading the Tribal Council
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: by now.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Oh, my God.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: That's good.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's yelling at the jurors. We don't know.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: We don't know.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Wild stuff, guys. Yeah, hopefully that rain clears up.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: It's also just, you and I are laughing about the
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: amount of things that have happened in the world that
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: are absolutely monumental and huge since he's been gone that
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: he just doesn't know about.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: In fact, we wanted to put a list together. This
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: is good. If you're listening, send us, tweet at us
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: some news items. Obviously, the verdict. The debate he doesn't
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: know about. But there's probably a bunch of little things
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: that have happened since early May.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: When he disappeared.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: J-Lo's tour getting canceled.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: J-Lo's tour getting canceled.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: RIP.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Send us all your fun news.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: And yeah, if you're a subscriber, put it in the Discord.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: That's right. Because then we'll definitely see it.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: If and when he returns.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: We are going to talk a bit later on the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: show about the president's latest push for a ceasefire in
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Gaza and congressional leaders asking Bibi to speak to a
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: joint session.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: But first, we have a lot to cover. on the
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: fallout from.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: The biggest political story of the year, maybe several years,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: which is that the Republican nominee for president is now
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: a convicted felon. We've all had a few days to
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: absorb this new reality and answer some version of this
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: question from family and friends. How much will this matter? Tommy,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: what do you think? And what's your overall takeaway from
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: the verdict? We haven't heard from you yet.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: It was funny because this is like the first time
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: in 20 years that That I was consuming news like
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: a normal person. You know, it's been my job.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: You were a normie?
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's been my job to consume news since, what,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: 2003 or 2002. So I was like in the backyard
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: playing with Lizette and I looked at my phone and
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: I think, I also don't have Twitter on my phone
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: anymore because I deleted it a long time ago. I
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: tried to redownload it, but there was a two-step verification thing.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: I just can't get it back.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Winner of the offline show. Both of you guys love it.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Love it's very offline. I know you're offline too. It's
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: not a story that looks great.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I got into a dumb argument one weekend and I
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: was walking around the mall with my wife and daughter,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: completely distracted. And I was like, what am I doing
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: to myself? So I deleted Twitter. And then a couple
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: of days later, when I tried to get my fix
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: and download it again, I couldn't. Anyway, so I was
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: consuming news like a normie. I got a text from you,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: I think. It was like, hey, verdict coming. So I
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: ran inside and watched it. And I think my response
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: was just like total surprise. I just did not think
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: the verdict was going to be swift and clear. I
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: thought it would be muddled because nothing is clean and
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: easy in the Trump era. I know. You know? And
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: then I also, I listened to you and Dan later,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: I also found myself instantly furious at everyone saying, this
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: is such a dark day for America. I know.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: It's like, guys, no, it's not. He's been a bad
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: guy all along.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: He's done a whole bunch of bad shit, most of
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: which he's gotten away with, some of which he hasn't.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: been impeached twice, been held liable for fraud, been held
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: liable for sexual abuse. His companies now have been held
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: liable for financial fraud. I mean.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let me tell you some dark days in America,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: some sad days in America. The day we elected him.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: The day we failed to impeach him on January 6th,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: thanks to Mitch McConnell. The days when we watched Republicans
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: come crawling back to Donald Trump to endorse him after
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: attacking him when they were running against him. So this
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: was a very good day. January 6th, that was a
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: bad one. That one sucked. That one sucked, yeah.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had some dark days with him.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Some dark days. So, you know, I was just sort
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: of like kind of in shock. And then immediately my
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: broken brain went to how will this play in the election?
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Well, with the caveat that it usually takes a week
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: or two for polling to accurately reflect people's reaction to
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: any big news event. Again, which is hard for all
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: of us news junkies to believe because our reactions are immediate.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: But in most of the country where people are not
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: paying attention to politics, the news sort of filters down.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: And even if they get it right away, they don't
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: really form opinions on it for a while. It's just
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: always what happens. But we did we did get some
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: initial hints from a few pollsters who spoke to voters
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: after the verdict. On average, they show a shift towards
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Biden of somewhere between three, three and a half points,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: maybe a little under three now, because I think there
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: was another morning consult poll today that showed not much movement.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Anything in the numbers you find notable or surprising?
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Well, John, as a father of two, I'm now seeing
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: double the big picture. So I do think it's worth.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Dad, you got the dad humor for sure.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Never left me. It hurts. I do think it is
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: worth just like pointing out that it is depressing that
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: the numbers didn't move 20 points.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: You know, that is sort of, you would think. But
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: that said, I guess I was sort of pleasantly surprised
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: that there was real movement. Sometimes voters tell you how
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: they're going to feel about an issue. And then it
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: happens and they actually don't feel that way. So I
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: was glad to see that the numbers moved a bit.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: There's also a lot of sort of anti-Trump or never
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Trump Republican types who want us to believe that Alvin
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Bragg basically cemented Trump's reelection by prosecuting him and that
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: the guilty verdict will only help that. Maybe they're right.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: We won't know for sure until the election happens. But
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Those same people probably would have told us that the
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: election was over if Trump had been found innocent and
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: if there was a hung jury. So I don't know.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: You probably dug into this way more than I did.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: What do you think?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I honestly don't know. And I really do
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: think it's too early to tell, particularly because I think
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: the biggest impact could be on voters who aren't paying attention,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: which are in the polls. These are some of the
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: voters who Biden has, if you believe the polls, has
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: lost to Trump or who are flirting with supporting Trump
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: or not voting at all. And so it's going to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: be even tougher to measure what they think. They're not
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: paying attention to the news ever. And so maybe they're
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: not really, they haven't made up their minds yet. So
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I think that's tough. I also think if you are
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: someone who has been with Trump this whole time through
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: the two impeachments, through the insurrection, through all the bullshit,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I don't think a guilty verdict is going to change
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: your mind. So if you're a liberal or if you're
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: someone who has decided you're not voting for Donald Trump
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: and you like, I don't think a I can't imagine
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: a guilty verdict making someone who hasn't voted for Donald
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Trump be like, oh, you know what? Now I'm going
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: to vote for him because I think that it's a
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: travesty of injustice or something. I think that's bullshit.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Maybe if you're a single issue, the justice system
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: is broken voter, that might get you. But normally you
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: aren't focused on the way the justice system treats rich,
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: powerful people in Manhattan because they tend to do okay.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I did notice, I think the Times had a write-up
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: of some of their old polling that they found the
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Trump voters, they don't buy this election interference frame for
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: the New York case, but they did find some independents
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: who were just kind of generally worried, like, how would
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: you serve as president while you're a felon, the logistics,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: the image of it all? I can imagine, you know,
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: you kind of, you don't really know how it's going
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: to feel to vote for this guy until you get
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: into the booth and you think about, like, what message
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: to send the world? How's this going to work?
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: I think that's a big, for, for, For normies, for
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: disengaged normies, I think that's a big one. It's embarrassing.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: We're overthinking this. Do you want a convicted felon as president?
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Do you want the rest of the world looking at
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: America and being like, oh yeah, they elevated a criminal,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: an unrepentant criminal, to the most powerful office in the world?
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: You don't want that.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: People don't think that's a good thing, unless you're like,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and you really love Trump, right, obviously. You know, I
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: think the ABC Ipsos poll showed Most voters think the
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: verdict was correct. Most voters think that Trump should end
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: his campaign. Again, it's like 49, 50 percent. So it's
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: pretty close. But it's not like there's a majority or
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: 49 percent that think that the verdict was incorrect or
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: that Trump should stay. That's in like the 30s. There's,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: you know, there's again, like usual, a segment of voters
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: who were like, I don't know what to think yet.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what we're going to have to
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: watch in the coming weeks. Speaking of never Trumpers, our
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: friend Sarah Longwell did a focus group of two time
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Trump voters who were down on Trump. after the verdict,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: and five of nine said that the verdict has made
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: them less likely to vote for Trump. So just one
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: focus group, but that's something.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I'll take it.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the reaction from the newly convicted criminal himself.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: On Friday, Trump gave a long and rambling speech at
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: the scene of the crime, Trump Tower, where he took
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: responsibility for his actions and asked the American people to
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: forgive him.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: Just kidding.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: He called the judge the devil and attacked Joe Biden, Democrats,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: the prosecutors, the witnesses, falsely claimed that the defense witnesses were, quote,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: literally crucified and told a bunch of lies about our
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: criminal justice system. Trump kept the crazy train going on Sunday,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: where he sat down with his pals at Fox and
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Friends to take about an hour's worth of softballs. Here's
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: some of what he had to say about the verdict.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I think it would be tough for the public to take.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: You know, at a certain point, there's a breaking point.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: And it sounds beautiful, right? You know, my revenge will
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: be success. And I mean that. But it's awfully hard
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: when you see what they've done. These people are so evil.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And at the same time, the country can come together.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm saying this, but the country can come together.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, I didn't say lock her up, but the
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: people would all say, lock her up, lock her up, okay.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: So he's never said. He's never said.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Never said lock her up.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Never said lock her up. We do have, I think,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: a clip that might contradict that statement.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: For what she's done, they should lock her up. So
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: crooked Hillary, wait. Crooked that you should lock her up,
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: I'll tell you. Hillary Clinton has to go to jail, okay?
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: She has to go to jail. Lock up the Bidens.
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: Lock up Hillary. If she were to win this election,
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. In that situation,
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: we could very well have a sitting president under felony
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: That would be horrible. Prescient.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: We would not want that. Now we don't just have
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: a sitting president under a felony trial. We have a
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: sitting president who is a felon.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's okay. Even better. I do love that there's
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: the distinction. Well, it's obviously lied about not saying lock
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: her up, but I do love that there would be
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: a distinction between saying lock her up or just basking
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: in the Nuremberg like glow of thousands of people chanting
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: it at you at a rally. He's such a fuck.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: He also asked the Supreme Court to step in and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: overturn the verdict, which isn't really how that works. State court,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court, I don't– I guess there's– we talked to
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Norm about this and Melissa Murray. Like there's a small
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: chance that once you go through the entire appeals process,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: maybe somehow they can move it to federal. It seems
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: very unlikely. It wouldn't happen for years anyway.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I listened to Melissa explain that and rewound it like
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: three times and I still didn't get it. But she
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: knows what she's talking about.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: One thing that certainly is not going to happen is
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: that the Supreme Court just jumps up and steps in
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: right now. I love that.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: I love that. I'm calling on the Supreme Court to
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: step in. I mean, one, you know that Clarence Thomas
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: and Justice Alito called in some of their top clerks
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: and they were like, hey, figure out if we can
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: do this. Is there any way we can make this happen?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Well, you also see that everyone, they're all flying the
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: flag upside down, like Martha Alito.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: This is the new thing now?
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: The MAGA people are going to fly their flags upside down,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: the American flags?
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I saw MTG tweeted it, which is usually a sign
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: that in three or four days, everyone's going to be
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: doing whatever she's doing. The Heritage Foundation put up an
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: upside down flag, too. That's good.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Look, I think that I'm just a patriot. I like
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: to fly the American flag the right way up. That's
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a crazy lib political position, but I'm for the flag
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: being right side up.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: John's pro-flag.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: What do you make of Trump's reaction so far?
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, I watched the speech in its entirety this morning.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: The Friday speech.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: The Friday speech, sorry. In its entirety, it is a
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: total mess. The gag order makes him more incoherent than
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: usual because he's sort of talking around names of people
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: so he doesn't get fined again or more jail time.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: He started by trying to make an argument about immigration.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Did you catch this?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Something about how they're bringing in criminals. It didn't work.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: It lasted about 30 seconds of a 30 minute speech.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: I'm sure like that was drafted for him. His advisors
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: were like, somehow make this about immigration. Yeah. Didn't work.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: 10 minutes later, he's talking about the January 6th committee.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: He's attacking random critics like Adam Kinzinger.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Catch that. He called him the most emotional man I've
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: ever seen.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I did laugh. I mean, he's not like, I don't,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what he, this, he, that's why
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: he's like so deep in the Mago weeds. Like I
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: don't ever remember Adam Kinzinger crying about anything, but I
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: don't know. Yeah, when did he cry on TV? I
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: was like, what are you talking about? He's making up
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: stats about terrorism.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: It was just a mess. In the middle, I thought
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: there was a compelling argument, which is, look, the Southern
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: District of New York didn't take this. Alvin Bragg didn't
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: want to take this case. And then when I decided
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: to run for president again, that's when they picked it up.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: This is about defeating me. I think maybe there's something there,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: a story you could tell there that could be convincing.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: And the broader message is always, I'm taking these attacks
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: to protect you, which has proven pretty effective for him.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: But I don't know that he's, he hasn't landed on
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: the elevator pitch for this thing yet.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I think both the immigration message that you mentioned
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: and some of the other stuff, I think that on
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Fox and Friends, the line where he said, success will
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: be his revenge. I thought that was very telling. And
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: all of this stuff is, I think his advisors were
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: pushing because they know it's not popular. to campaign on
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: a promise to jail your political opponents and the people
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: who held you accountable for breaking the law. The guy
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: hasn't been elected yet. I think they're well aware of that.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: He hasn't even been sentenced yet. They're probably well aware
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: of that as well. It's up to Judge Mershon to
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: figure out his future here. But he's also Donald Trump
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: and he can't help himself. He's going to make this
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: about himself. He's going to make this about his grievances.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: He's going to make this about how badly he wants revenge.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: So He's not going to– already in a couple of days,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: he's not going to be able to maintain the discipline
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: to deliver a message about this conviction that could somehow
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: help him, which, by the way, I think it's probably
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: pushing a boulder up a hill there. But nonetheless, I
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: don't think he's going to say the right message here.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and part of this, right, he has to go
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: meet with someone down at the courthouse and do a
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: psychological evaluation. He has to talk about if he's ever
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: been in jail before. He has to do this, like,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: pre-sentencing interview. Imagine all of the things he's saying currently
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: could become a part of the consideration when he's sentenced.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: So you imagine he'd be a little more careful right now?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I think the key here is, like, he wants to
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: go after Bragg. He wants to go after the judge.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: He wants to go after the Democrats. I did think
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: it was funny that his own lawyer, Joe Tacopina, ex-lawyer,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Joe Tapioca, he said that... that arguing that Biden had
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: something to do with this was like the craziest thing
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: he ever heard.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, interesting.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: He's like, it's the state court. That's Trump's own lawyer.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: I also think we remember, like, there were headlines.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: One of the first things Alvin Bragg did when he
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: took office was to announce that he was not continuing
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: the investigation into Trump's financial fraud.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So there's not a guy who was like, came into
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: office like, I'm going to get him. He wasn't dying
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: to get him.
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: And right. He only took the case when he thought
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: that there was enough evidence. And again, you can think
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: that Everyone is always confused by these polls that show
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: most Americans think that maybe the charges were politically motivated,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: but yet they do think that Trump is also guilty.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's so weird because it is possible. Look,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: we have elected prosecutors in this country, and prosecutors make
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: decisions about cases all the time. Sometimes they're good decisions.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they're bad decisions. That's why we have fucking juries.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: That's the key.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Even if Alvin Bragg had some political motivation in his mind,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter because... a jury of his peers heard
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the evidence. A jury, by the way, that Trump's defense
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: lawyers helped pick and approved of, ultimately, that jury heard
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: the evidence, took nine hours, and was like, oh yeah,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: he's guilty.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's important. And Trump's trying to suggest
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: that that jury isn't credible because of where they live.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: And I don't know that that flies with anybody.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: As they all are now, right? All the Republicans are
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: basically saying, juries that hear cases... in places that tend
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: to vote for Democrats aren't legitimate. Prosecutors who are elected
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: in places that tend to vote for Democrats aren't legitimate.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Judges who are appointed in places that aren't. The only
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: legitimate criminal justice system is the criminal justice system that
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: operates in deep red areas of the country.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: That in many cases, Trump gave these judges their jobs. Right,
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: and that's it. Like what's happening in Florida right now.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: The only justice is his justice. So I think the
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: most– on that note, I think the most disturbing reactions
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: have been from just about every Republican politician. Like in
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: a pre-Trump world, you can imagine Republicans reacting like their
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Maryland Senate candidate, former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan did. Before
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: the verdict came down, he urged Americans to respect the
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: verdict and the legal process. Got in a little bit
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: of trouble for that we can talk about. Or– Mitt Romney, right?
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Mitt Romney said, you know, I think the DA made
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a political decision and he should have just settled the
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: case against Trump. But that's as far as he went.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I disagree with Mitt Romney on that. But like, it's,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: you know, you could imagine, again, in a pre-Trump world,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Republicans saying something like that and leave it alone. That's
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: not even close to what's happening. Here's what some Republicans
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: have said.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Is it a good idea for the Republican Party to
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: nominate the convicted felon?
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: Listen, is it a good idea that Donald Trump is
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: the nominee?
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: The answer is 100% yes.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I do believe the Supreme Court should step in. Obviously,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: this is totally unprecedented and it's dangerous to our system.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is what you see in banana republics.
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: Banana republicans, republics never stop with the guy at the top.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: We have gone over a cliff in America. Will you
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: condemn those threats?
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: Well, Peter, I don't know what obscure websites that you've
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: gone to. Well, no, this is from Truth Social. It's
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: not an obscure website. An individual says, I hope every
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: juror is doxed and they pay for what they have done.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: May God strike them dead. We will on.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: November 5th and they will pay.
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: You can condemn that threat.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Can't you?
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: Again, I will always say that violence has no place
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: in our politics. Again, I don't know what obscure account
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: you found on social media. It's on True Social.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: So we got the MAGA speaker asking the MAGA majority
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: on the Supreme Court to overturn the jury's verdict. MAGA
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: senators sent a letter over the weekend saying that they
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: are not going to confirm any more judges, any more
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: of the government's nominees. or fund the government or do
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: anything outside of defense on appropriations because a jury found
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Trump guilty. That's what they've decided. The MAGA internet is
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: calling for war, threatening to dox jurors, jail Democrats, commit violence.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Seems like a totally normal reaction, huh?
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Did you see Marjorie Taylor Greene said she wants to
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: defund New York? I did see that. Not just the city,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: the entire state.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: They're going to defund New York.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: No federal funds for the state of New York.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: How do you take this? Is this like lunatics just
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: letting off some steam? Or do you think Republicans are
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: going to make this verdict like a big focus of
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: the campaign?
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, I bet most of it is sucking up.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Do you see Tim Sheehy's running for Senate in Montana
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: put up an ad focused on Trump's prosecution? My guess
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: is a lot of these guys are like, all right,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: how do I kiss his ass the fastest possible? and
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: make sure that he'll be there for me later when
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: I need, you know, fundraising or political support. That said,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, you and I were talking earlier in our office,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: like Republicans are very focused on vengeance and revenge these days. Like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: for example, Dr. Fauci was testifying on Capitol Hill today.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Are there a lot of people who want to revisit
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: the pandemic right now? I don't want to. I don't
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: know why Dr. Fauci was getting screamed at by Marjorie
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Taylor Greene. The thing I'm like worried about the most, though,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: is the vigilante violence because it takes one person. I mean,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: everyone forgets before January 6th, remember back in 2018 when
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: that guy in Florida sent 16 pipe bombs to prominent
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Democrats he believed were Trump's enemies, right? I mean, like
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: someone like Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, they have layers
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: of security to protect themselves from that kind of stuff.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: But if I were a juror or an employee in
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: the New York court system, I would be pretty scared.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been, thinking about how difficult it's been to
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: sort of convince people that a second Trump term would
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: be very scary, right? Not just talk about like, you know,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Trump's going to give another tax cut and all the
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: things that poll very well. But the idea that he could,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you know, invoke the Insurrection Act, that he's going to
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: do these deportation rates, all this kind of stuff. And
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: it's kind of because I think the Trump cult is
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: most threatening and menacing when they are afraid of losing
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: power and they are challenged.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: This is when they lost the election. Obviously, that's what
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: happened in January 6th. This is now when Trump has
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: been convicted. And this is when they really show their
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: true selves, because as long as you don't challenge them
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: and just let them stay in power, they're going to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: do all their bad shit and they're going to, you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: be corrupt and make money. But they're just going to just.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Right. But once they're once they're threatened, they really show
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: their true colors. I mean.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: The CEO of the Federalist, Sean Davis.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: That guy's the worst.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: He said he tweeted that he wants lists of Democrats
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: that will go to prison. He wants prosecutors in red
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: districts to start prosecuting Democrats. And he says that the
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: right has a, quote, moral obligation to terrorize the left
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: until it's destroyed because of this. You know, you heard
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Peter Alexander on Meet the Press talking to Tom Cotton
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: about these threats. Some of them and NBC reported this.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Someone said, we need to identify each juror, make them miserable,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: maybe even suicidal. Another one said, one million armed men
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: need to go to Washington and hang everyone. The Proud
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Boys have been posting the word war. And a convicted
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: January 6th defendant, the kind that Trump wants to pardon,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: tweeted a photo of Alvin Bragg and a noose and said,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: January 20th, 2025, traitors get the rope.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: And look, that's just genuinely scary to say something like that.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: And also, you know, there was once a big debate
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: about whether online commentary could lead to offline violence? Well,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: I think we kind of settled that one on January 6th.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: One other thing I just wanted to quickly take on
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: is you heard Ted Cruz there say, this is banana
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: republic stuff, the prosecution of the former president. That is,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: first of all, this is like weird dated terminology though.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: It's like there's a third world or banana republic stuff.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: It's just, it's nonsense. But it's also just wrong. Like France, Israel, Italy, Germany,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Portugal have all indicted presidents or prime ministers. Nicolas Sarkozy
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: was convicted in 2021. Bibi Netanyahu is currently on trial
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: for corruption and has been for years. So I think,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: if anything, the U.S., we are an outlier in how
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: little we seem to hold these corrupt political leaders accountable.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And of all those countries you mentioned, most of them
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: have not returned those leaders to power.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Right. Right.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Lula has been returned to power, but that's because his
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: charges were thrown out.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: His conviction was thrown out.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: And the other one that looms large, Berlusconi, who in 2013,
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: when they're going to put him in jail, was like, oh,
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: there'll be riots in the street. There will be, you know,
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: he essentially threatened kind of an insurrection.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Again, none of these Republican politicians or MAGA people on
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: the right are making the case that what Trump did
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: was legal. They keep calling it a paperwork issue, an
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: accounting issue. What the guy did was try to win
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: an election by paying the Inquirer to make up bad
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: stories about his opponents. He tried to kill bad stories
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: about himself. And then he covered the whole thing up
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: so that the voters wouldn't know.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: That's what he did.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: No one's saying that that is legal.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Ted Cruz is like, banana republic stuff. And he was
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: a victim. Right.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: And basically Republicans are saying, if you're Donald Trump, you
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: get to do that. Even if it's against the law,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: even if a jury decides it's against the law, you
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: get to do it because you're Donald Trump. That's, that's
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: the argument they're making, which is this stuff is all this.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I think the Republican reaction to me is scarier and
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: more menacing than even Trump's reaction because Trump, you obviously
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: expect to do that. And the Republican, the entire Republican party,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: it's like very worrisome that they're doing that because they
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: could incite violence. I also think it's the most politically
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: damaging thing for them to do. And I think that's,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: you know, we're going to talk about Biden, but Biden
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: specifically called out the attacks on the justice system. But,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Telling voters that now, not only Donald Trump, but the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: entire Republican Party, this whole campaign and all they want
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: to do is just take revenge out on their enemies.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And you have a bunch of senators who are like,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: we're not doing our jobs anymore because we're pissed that
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump got convicted of something. I don't think that's
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: going to be very popular with voters.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't think an eye for an eye
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: is the bedrock principle upon which this country was founded.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I think it's a little different than that.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about the reaction from Joe Biden and
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the only normal party left in American politics. Biden campaign
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: has been calling Trump a convicted felon. They also trotted
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: out white collar crook today.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: The president himself has been a bit more restrained, though
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: he still addressed the verdict during a speech on Friday.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Let's listen.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: The jury heard five weeks of evidence, five weeks. After
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: careful deliberation, the jury reached a unanimous verdict. They found
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump guilty. on all 34 felony counts. Now he'll
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: be given the opportunity, as he should, to appeal that
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: decision just like everyone else has that opportunity. That's how
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: the American system of justice works. And it's reckless.
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: It's dangerous.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: It's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: because they don't like the verdict.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Would you think about the response from Biden and his campaign?
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, I understood the reticence before there was a
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: verdict to comment on this because, you know, Biden didn't
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: want to play into this narrative that he was directing
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: the prosecution and the belief that we're all innocent until
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: proven guilty is, you know, at the heart of the U.S.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: legal system and most legal systems. That said, now that
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: we have a verdict rendered by a jury of Trump's peers,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: I think not only is there no way to avoid
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: talking about it, but it's politically the obvious and advantageous
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: thing to do. It is historic. It is the biggest
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: piece of news and negative information that we'll probably learn
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: about Trump in this entire election cycle. And Trump is
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: going to try to blame his own corruption on Joe Biden.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: So you have to be out there talking about it.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: I like that Biden started big. No one is above
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: the law. This was a jury of his peers. I
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: think constantly reminding people that Trump was convicted by a
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: jury is key. And then in some of the other cases,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard for Biden to talk about this,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: but in some of these other cases, indictments were passed
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: down by grand juries. You know what I mean? This
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: is not like someone at DOJ being like, this one,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: that one, that charge, let's get them on this one.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: These are citizens making these decisions. So, you know, I
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: think the challenge is going to be, will this thing
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: get memory holds like every other piece of information that's
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: happened in this country? And I do think it's on
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden and his campaign and all of us to
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: make sure it does not.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I totally agree. I also think that, I'm glad that
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: he brought up the appeals process too.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Me too.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Because again, if, if, trump's going to appeal this and
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: if the new york court of appeals you know overturns
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: the conviction like well of course we'd be personally disappointed
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: yes but am i going to sit there and be
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: like that that court was rigged and you know the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: fix is in it's like no accept the decision that
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: justice was that that's justice that's our legal system right
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: like what are you going to do you say appeal
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: i say news hook for the story to keep playing
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: out keep it in the news i also think that
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: i like that he said no one's above the law
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: i do like It was right for Biden to call
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: out the attacks on the judicial system. I think as
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: we move on, there's a lot of Americans who probably
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: way before Trump have not had complete faith in the
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: American judicial system. There's a lot to criticize. And there's
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: a lot to criticize. And I think that the key
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: here is Donald Trump thinks he's above the law. He
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: thinks that there's a separate set of rules for him
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: than there is for everyone else.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: So there's Alvin Bragg, since he took office, brought like
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: dozens and dozens of these exact charges against other criminal
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: defendants and won convictions too. So are we to say
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: now that those people should get jail time and those
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: people should deal with a guilty verdict but Donald Trump
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to? Like I think that's the powerful argument
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: there is that he thinks he gets to get away
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: with whatever he wants because he's fucking Donald Trump and
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: all the rest of the people in America, they have
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: to abide by the law.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Right. And I just think big picture, if you're looking
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: at our justice system and looking for problems and inequities,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: you know, you're more likely to find them when you
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: see the draconian sentences handed down to nonviolent drug laws
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: and not, you know. boy, this country is way too
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: hard on white-collar criminals and, you know, corrupt business people. Like,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: those folks tend to skate because they can afford great lawyers. Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, what's it say about our country when, you know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: you can't even run for office without participating in a
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: catch-and-kill scheme with the National Enquirer and then cover up
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: the whole story?
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: I know. And that is the piece of this, like,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: how dare they deny him the presidency?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what January 6th was about.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: So, you know, Democrats all seem to agree that we
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: should be. I've seen all these headlines like there's a
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: debate with Democrats about whether they should talk about this
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: or not. When you really look at it, like everyone
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: seems to be in agreement that Joe Biden and Democrats
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: should be talking about this. The fact that the Republicans
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: are nominating a convicted felon to be president. There has
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: been some debate about how much the Biden campaign and
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: other elected Dems should focus on it. What's your take
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: on that?
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, for other electeds, I assume it will just
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: be case by case based on, look, Democrats are going
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: to try to rally their base and raise money off
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: of this. Republicans are going to do the same thing.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: So if you're in a more progressive state, if you're
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: in Maryland, you're probably going to talk about this a lot,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: try to rally the base and get out the vote.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: And that's why Larry Hogan, the Republican nominee there, took
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: a much more reasonable, rational stance. If you're Jon Tester
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: in Montana, where his opponent put up an ad talking
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: about the deep state going after Trump. It's probably not
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: the thing he wants to talk about. He's going to
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: talk about whatever is polling well in those issues. I
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: think at the presidential level, like for the Biden campaign,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: this should be their core argument to discredit Trump, right?
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, the fact that we're asking this question seems crazy.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm taking crazy pills just reading about
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: this debate. Like, again, we don't have to overthink this.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: What's the counterargument?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: The counterargument is that the negatives about Trump Donald Trump
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: are already baked in and that this doesn't affect people's
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: lives as much. And so people know that Donald Trump
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: is a bad guy. And so if you just tell them,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: if you remind them that he's a convicted felon, they're
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: going to like, yeah, I know he's a bad guy,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: but I'm upset about gas prices or I'm upset about
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Gaza or upset about whatever they're upset about with Joe Biden.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: And I think that I'd rather have a bad guy
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: in a good economy than than Joe Biden and the
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: bad economy. This would be the argument from the other side.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I guess, you know, you're sort of straw
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: manning and I appreciate that. Maybe the pushback is like, well,
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: you know, being a felon doesn't mean you're a bad guy.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: It just means you're not fit to serve as president
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: of the United States. Or, and this is very new information,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: like the constitutional challenges it creates, like, is he going
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: to run? You know, could he be elected and then
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: get put on house arrest. Like how's any of this
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: going to work?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: He's banned from 37 countries as a convicted felon. You're
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: either 37 other at 38 countries, including the United States,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: but there's 37 countries that don't let, don't bar convicted felons.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Like cool countries. He can't, he can't buy a gun.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: He would be discharged from the military. Donald Trump. Let
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: me put it that way. Like, it's not a good
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: look to be a convicted felon.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I also think like, I would not say Donald Trump's
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: if I was on the Biden campaign, which already they're doing.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And if you look at all their press releases, so
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not criticizing them for this. If I was the
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Biden campaign, if I was an elected Democrat, maybe some
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: exceptions for a John Tester or someone like that in
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: a tough race. I would not say Donald Trump's name
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: between now and November without including the phrase convicted felon
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: or white collar crook like the Biden campaign is doing.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: I would also, if I had more room to say it,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I would remind people, like you said, that he was
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: found guilty by a jury of his peers, that his
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: lawyers helped pick for a crime that the prosecutor has
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: indicted hundreds of other defendants for. I would say all that.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: And I also think that I would tie the verdict
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: and the fact that he's a convicted felon into a
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: larger message about him. And it fits perfectly because the
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: larger message is Donald Trump is only in it for himself.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: He is only running to keep himself out of jail.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: He is only running so that he can keep himself
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: from being broke. He does not give a shit about
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: you at every opportunity he's ever had in life. He
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: throws people under the bus who are very loyal to him.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: See Michael Cohen and the people who testified against him
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: at trial. All he cares about is himself. That's why
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: he's in it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: And if you elect him, you might think he's going
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: to help you, but you will be disappointed just like
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: everyone else in his life has been And that is
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: the kind of person, he is a con man and
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: now he is a convicted felon.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I would make that argument.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I totally, I think the fact that it folds so
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: perfectly into this broader narrative that Biden's already taking is
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: what makes this, what makes it key. This is not
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: just some data point that shows that he's like kind
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: of a gross or crass person or untoward. No, like
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: this fits in perfectly with these reports. I think it
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: was the Washington Post where he's going to oil and
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: gas lobbyists and being like, give me a million bucks
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: and I'll slash your regulations. He's calling donors and trying
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: to get them to 10X their donation to like Super
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: PACs and the RNC and offering political favors to them.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: This is bread and butter corruption, and people do not
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: There's just a story, we're going to talk about Gaza
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: in a second, but there's just a story that Miriam Adelson,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Sheldon Adelson's wife, who's like one of the richest women
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: in the world now, said she's ready to donate to
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Trump and go all in on Trump, but her price
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: is him coming out for complete annexation of the West Bank.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: That's the kind of presidency you get. That's the kind of...
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Pay to play leadership you get in a country where
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: there's an autocrat as a leader.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: This is what authoritarians do. They just they get into
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: office and they make themselves rich. They help their family.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: They help their friends and everyone else can fuck off.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: And that's what this verdict shows for Donald Trump. I
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: think Trump obviously gives Democrats a lot of material to
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: work with, aside from being convicted felon, which you shouldn't
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: need more. But I guess I guess we do. Even
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: in that Fox and Friends interview, he said quite a
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: few alarming things that didn't get as much attention. Here
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: are just a couple.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Do you think the public will have the appetite, the
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: stomach for watching deportations on their television screen?
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Well, that question is so, so great and so tough.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: So you'll get rid of 10 really bad ones and one,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you know, beautiful mother and it'll become a story. then
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: it's going to always be tough. It's not going to
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: be easy. When they say that the seas will rise
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: over the next 400 years, one-eighth of an inch, you know,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: which means basically you have a little more beachfront property, okay?
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: There's not woke in the military. There's woke at the top.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: They want there to be woke, but these guys aren't
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: meant for woke. Are you going to fire those generals,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: the woke generals at the top? Yes, I would get
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: rid of them, yeah. But see, now I know them.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't know them before. You know, I came in.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: What do I know? I was a New York real
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: estate person, but no, I'd fire them. I would fire them.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: You can't have woke military. We're going to cut the
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Department of Education, let it be run locally. We have
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: this mess. You mean end the Department of Education? End it,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: end it, other than to have a little tiny coordination.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: You know, it would be nice to make sure that
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: everybody's teaching English. You know, let them learn English, okay?
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: I love this.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Also, the Department of Interior, too. Oh, good. No more parks.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Not for that.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Biden campaign has been pushing these around, but are there
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: any you think are particularly damaging to Trump? Because that's
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of crazy shit in that interview, aside from
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: the verdict stuff.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I would focus on the fact that
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: this man chose to spend 90 minutes of his time
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: with these three idiot Fox & Friends weekend anchors. Like,
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: can you think of anything worse?
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the B team. I didn't even realize there was
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: a Fox & Friends B team, a second string Fox
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: & Friends. Like, from the... An ex-Real World star there?
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Rachel Campos Duffy?
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Oh, right, from Boston, right? Yeah, yeah. I like that season, too.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: What's her husband's name? He's in Congress? Sean Duffy? Yeah,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: Sean Duffy. From Wisconsin?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Is he still there?
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, he was like a logger or something.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: It was a wild interview. I can't say that I
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: watched the full hour and a half.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: The response to the deportation question, like, what a beautiful,
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: tough question. We're going to have to get rid of one. Like,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: he's imagining it and sort of fantasizing about it.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: It's also very damaging because I think this is exactly
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: what we need to get people to understand about the
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: deportation plans that he has, because I think a lot
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: of people in the country think it is, you know,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: newer entrance from the border, people who've just crossed the border,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: but this is like massive raids in cities trying to
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: deport people who've been here for decades, who have families
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: here who are like deeply enmeshed in our communities. And
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: you can imagine, I talked to Ron Branson about this
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: for the wilderness and he, he, did a lot of
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: reporting on this, like these deportation forces who can either
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: be local police or National Guard or the military going
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: like house to house, like raiding them, raiding offices, workplaces.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Kids are going to school watching like their parents be
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: like let out in handcuffs and deported.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Like this is just, it's chaos. And Stephen Miller's bragging
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: about it. No, they love it.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: They're going to do it. Charlie Kirk's bragging about it,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: all their friends.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think unfortunately far more voters than
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: we'd like to believe as it generally identify with Trump's
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: immigration views. Uh, but that is a bridge too far
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: and that is scary for a lot of people. Yeah.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: But I think all of these are of a piece,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: all of the things that he said there of what
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: we were just talking about, right? Like the immigrants he
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: knows aren't getting deported, right? Melania is not getting deported, right?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: His kids won't be affected by eliminating the department of education.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Climate change probably will mean more beachfront property for him.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: It's like, we'll put his Mar-a-Lago underwater. We've got to
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: figure that out. He's not getting hurt by climate change.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: He's rich as hell, right?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: So it's like, he wants loyal generals, again, who are
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: going to do whatever he tells them to do. I
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: keep saying, Mike Flynn, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Mike Flynn,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: QAnon guy, is going to be.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Flynn is back.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: I'm starting to regret getting a cameo from him the
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: whole time, putting money in his pocket.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: But again, it's all, it's, you know, as long as
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Trump's okay, Trump's going to be okay if he's president.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: The rest of us will not because he doesn't give
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: a shit.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: We should also note that Hunter Biden's criminal trial has
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: begun in Delaware. The president's son has been charged with
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: lying about his drug use on a form he filled
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: out to buy a gun in 2018. If convicted, he
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: could face years in prison. Hunter will also be tried
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: in September here in California for failing to pay his taxes.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: In response, President Biden issued a statement attacking the Trump-appointed
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: judge who's overseeing the trial, as well as the Trump-appointed
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: prosecutor who brought the charges against Hunter. Again, just kidding.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: He said that he loves his son, he's proud of
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: his recovery from substance abuse, and that as president, he
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: doesn't and won't comment on federal cases. Don't you think
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: it's weird that Biden rigged the justice system to get Trump,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: but he couldn't spare his own son?
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: He's very bad at rigging.
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: It is.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: The fact that you can have a bunch of Trump
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: fans who consume this daily meal of content about how
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: the Justice Department is rigged against Trump, and then their
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: dessert is like fantasizing about Hunter Biden going to jail.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: It's hard to compute. It's not quite cognitive dissonance. It's
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: like they want to live in reality where all the
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: facts kind of warp around Trump, like gravity and they're
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: just like happy to hear what they want to hear.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe like the gross political calculus, who knows,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: maybe this will convince some people that Joe Biden is
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: actually not controlling the DOJ and telling them who to indict.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: But like mostly it's just a really sad story about
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: addiction and a family that has gone through some terrible
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: stuff and now is going to have it all dragged
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: out because of this case.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: The family, the president, elected Democrats, no one is talking
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: about this case the way that Republicans have talked about
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the 88 felony charges and now 34 convictions against Donald Trump,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: because Democrats respect the criminal justice system and the legal
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: system and the process in this country where a jury
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: decides your guilt or your innocence. And it's just like,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: you don't hear Democrats talking about how the system is
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: rigged against Bob Menendez, Democratic Senator Bob Menendez, who's on trial.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Henry Cuellar was indicted. Another Democratic congressman. You don't hear
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Democrats complaining about Henry Cuellar. We tried to primary his
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: ass like five years.
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: Ago.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: And the president's son, the president's own Justice Department, through
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: a Trump-appointed prosecutor, brings charges against Hunter. And now there's
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: a judge appointed by Trump. And Joe Biden is like,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: all right, I'm going to let it. It's probably insane.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: killing Joe Biden. This is his last remaining son. Beau died.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: He lost his daughter and his first wife. I mean,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: the tragedy.
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: And I don't mean to sound crass about it by
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: focusing on the politics first. I mean, first of all,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: this is a guy who allegedly lied on a background
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: check form and he could get real jail time because
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: of it. I mean, it's kind of shocking that that
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: is the penalty. That said, we have a lot of
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: stupid laws that give you a lot of jail time
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: for things where you shouldn't get jail time in this country.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: But yes, I mean, I think it is very clear
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: that Hunter's addiction has been agonizing for Joe Biden and
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: for his family. And the thing he fears most is
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: losing another child. And, uh, I can't imagine what it
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: is like having this in the background of your life. Um,
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: that's not to excuse or absolve Hunter Biden of things
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: he has done, uh, or making mistakes, but you know,
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: it's just on a human level. It's awful.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: And, but again, and like, you know, to take it
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: back into politics, unfortunately, like, Do you want to live
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: in a country where even the president's own son can
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: be held accountable by the president's own Justice Department for
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: breaking the law?
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: And the president says that, lets that go forward and
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: just says, I love my son. And, you know, that's
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: all there is. Or a country where this guy who's
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: been a convicted felon is like, no, because it was me,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: I want to throw away the charges and everything's rigged
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: and you shouldn't trust the justice system unless it's in
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: a deep red area.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: And then Barron hosts the Hillary Clinton military tribunal.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Down the road coming contractions. That's what our kids are
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: going to lock her up.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Before we go, I did want to get your thoughts
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: on the latest Gaza news. So in the same speech
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: where Biden talked about Trump's guilty verdict, it turns out
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: it was just a Trump guilty verdict topper on a
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: speech about Gaza.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: Who doesn't want to write a Gaza war plan speech
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: with an indictment topper, right? Poor Biden speech.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: So the president called for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: and endorsed a new Israeli proposal to bring the hostages
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: home and end the war. He also said he urged
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: the leadership of Israel to get behind this proposal.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: Let's listen.
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: I want to level with you today as to where
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: we are and what might be possible. But I need
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: your help. Everyone who wants peace now must raise their
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: voices and let the leaders know they should take this deal,
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: work to make it real, make it lasting, and forge
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: a better future out of the tragic terror attack and war.
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: It's time to begin this new stage, for the hostages
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: to come home, for Israel to be secure, for the
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: suffering to stop. It's time for this war to end,
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: for the day after to begin.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Why do you think Biden chose to endorse this proposal
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: and make it public for the first time the day
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: after Donald Trump was found guilty?
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: So.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: On the timing, I know the speech has been in
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: the works for a while. I talked to some folks
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: at the White House. I think the proposal went over
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: to Hamas the night before he gave the speech. So
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: maybe some of the thinking was, look, this is now
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: like in the wild. Maybe we should just get ahead
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: and frame it. I do think the broader goal of
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: making this proposal public is to put pressure on Hamas
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: and the Israeli government to accept it and then try
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: to rally international support from other countries behind it. getting
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: this deal done so that everybody's making calls, the Egyptians,
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: the Qataris, whoever they can figure out to talk to,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: to try to say accept it. Now, will that work?
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: It's hard to say at this point.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Now, you said putting pressure on the Israeli government. It's
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: the Israeli government's proposal, but it seems like they didn't
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: want to make it public just yet because Netanyahu, does
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: he want some wiggle room to potentially not support this
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: proposal because some of the right-wing politicians the even further
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: right-wing characters in his own government don't accept the proposal?
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: He is a duplicitous individual, and I rarely believe anything
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: he says. I think the broader political challenges are, one,
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Hamas has to accept it, right? They're a terrorist organization.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: They don't want Israel to exist. They clearly launched the
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: October 7th attacks knowing that there would be a massive
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: military response and retaliation. So their logic is hard to predict,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: especially since the decision makers are not like the political
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: leaders who are living in foreign countries like Qatar. They're
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: like guys in tunnels in Gaza. But on the Israeli side,
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: you have a bunch of super right-wing ministers and politicians
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: and political parties who want Israel to stay in Gaza
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: permanently and occupy it. Some of them want to rebuild
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: settlements that were taken out of Gaza in the 2000s.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: Netanyahu has built a coalition that includes some of these characters,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: some of the most odious people in Israeli political life,
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: like Itamar Ben-Gavir and Smotrich, the finance minister. And so
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: he's facing a constant threat from those guys to pull
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: out of the coalition, which topples the government, which means
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: he's no longer in power. So it's like clearly the
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Israeli war cabinet, it's the more sort of serious people
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: have agreed to this deal and they put it forward
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: to see if Hamas would agree to it. But I
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: think Netanyahu doesn't want to concede any of that publicly
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: before like everything is done, right? Because they want to
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: say no, like they just want to stick to these
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: broader principles of like total victory over Hamas, which is
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: not an achievable goal.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: And it seems like Biden then by making this public
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: and giving the speech also kind of wanted to box
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Bibi in a little bit.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Biden wants to box Bibi in and
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: see if you can put pressure on him. I also
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: think Look, their team has been working constantly for months
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: to try to broker a ceasefire agreement, both short term
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: and longer term. And also this Saudi-Israeli normalization deal that
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: they think could lead to a Palestinian state ultimately. So
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: there's all this work happening behind the scenes, but those
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: efforts aren't always public. And obviously none of it has
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: been successful. So I think part of it is like,
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: let's just lay out what we believe. Let's put forward
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: what we're working on. Let's see if that can help
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: us get it done and accomplish this goal and at
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: least make this private, diplomatic effort that we're doing public.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: How hopeful are the various parties and factions that this
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: deal could actually happen?
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: I just, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, you know,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: it's so hard. You have to get to guess what
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Hamas will do. Um, but you know, I don't know,
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: at some point this war has to end, you know,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: hopefully it's sooner than later. And, um, you know, it's,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I saw a bunch of other governments put out statements
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: supporting the deal. And then I think the Biden administration
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: is now trying to get a UN resolution going that's
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: based on the deal as well. So hopefully the pressure continues. Yeah,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: it's a full court press. You do sort of worry about,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: you know, and I guess Hamas initially reacted like, oh,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: we're looking at the proposal favorably, but who.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: The fuck knows? Well, the problem is a lot of
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: the initial reactions are from all these political leaders like
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: living abroad, but then the folks who will actually decide
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: are in Gaza. It takes days to get to them.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: So in related news, Bibi has accepted an invitation from
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: congressional leaders, Republicans and Democrats, to address a joint session
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: of Congress. We don't know when yet. There was some
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: reporting that it was June 13th. Doesn't seem like that's
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: the date now, but around there. Some Democrats are saying
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: they'll skip the speech and criticize the invitation, including Bernie Sanders,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: who called Netanyahu a war criminal. Why do you think
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries went along with this one?
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: I am just beyond frustrated and confused by this. Wild
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: to me. Okay, I'm going to float some scenarios. You
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: tell me what you make of them. The most charitable scenario, right?
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: You have Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries who fundamentally think Israel
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: is one of our closest allies. They're in what they
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: feel like is this existential fight. So you invite the
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: prime minister from Israel to come address Congress. It sucks
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: that it's Bibi Netanyahu, but this is not about individuals.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: This is about two countries. That's the most charitable explanation
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: I can think of.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: It's just, you don't have to.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: That's a great rejoinder, John. That's a great rejoinder.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: It's not like it's a pre-planned thing that you are
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: now taking away.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: No.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: It's like it's a special thing to invite a foreign
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: leader to come to the U.S.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Congress.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: It doesn't help them win the war.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: And it's not like anyone's saying Chuck Schumer should go
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: out there, which he already did, and denounce Netanyahu. He
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: called on him to step down. I just, like, would
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: you invite Donald Trump? Like, would you invite the crazy
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: right-wing racist... who's corrupt in your own country to address
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Congress if you don't have to?
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Victor Orban?
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: No.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: Less charitable version. That could be, as you just mentioned,
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Schumer gave this speech several weeks back where he basically
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: said Netanyahu should go, should no longer be prime minister.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: You could imagine he got a bunch of blowback from that.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: You could imagine the Democratic Party generally is worried about
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: losing support from Jewish voters because of criticism from Democrats
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: of Israel's conduct in this war. So they decide, OK,
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: let's join on this invite with Mitch McConnell and Speaker Johnson,
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: invite Netanyahu to come address Congress so we don't give
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: them like a political issue. I don't know. Maybe I'm
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: making this up, but that could be another rationale.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: It's also like we're not the UK parliament here. We
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: don't have like question time where you can go back
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: and forth with Netanyahu. Like you're just giving him this
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: stage to say whatever he wants to say. It's not
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: like Netanyahu is coming to the U.S., And Schumer and
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Jeffries were like, yeah, we'll meet with Netanyahu.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: I'd be like, yeah, of course. Then you have an exchange.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: You go back and forth with him.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: You debate him. I think protesting that meeting or saying
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: you're not going to take the meeting.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: Is like— You use that meeting to pressure him to
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: do better things.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: That seems sort of silly. But a speech to Congress
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: is just that. It's a speech to Congress. You don't
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: get to talk back. You just get to sit there
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: and listen, and it's going to get broadcast everywhere.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: I personally think this is just a massive error, and
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: I'm offended and shocked by it. It is totally unforced. Netanyahu,
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: when he gave a joint session speech in 2015, he
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: used it to attack President Obama over the Iran nuclear deal, which,
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: by the way, Trump later pulled out of, which was
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: one of the biggest diplomatic self-owns in recent history. Netanyahu
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: clearly wants Trump to be president because Trump gave him
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: everything he wanted the first time around diplomatically. Netanyahu could
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: use this as a political lifeline back home to show, hey,
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: I'm still, you know, you might hate me. You know,
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: I have taken no responsibility for October 7th. I won't
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: own any of the mistakes that were made that day,
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: but I still got juice with Washington. You know, like
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: you could see him making that argument. But even before
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: October 7th, this is the man who was trying to
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: shred Israel's judicial system to help himself evade accountability for
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: his brazen corruption. Like he's a bad guy. He's a
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: bad leader. This is a terrible decision.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure they'll say, well, you know, Israel's an ally. Like,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Would you have MBS come address a joint session after he,
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I know we're doing the normalization deal, but that is
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: a different, that is a substantively different thing. I would
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: not go. If I was a Democrat, I would absolutely
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: not go to the speech.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders is absolutely right. I would not go listen
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: to this man.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: We talk about like things to protest that are effective
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: and not. Like I, if I was a Democratic member
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: of Congress, if I was, I would protest. Bibi Netanyahu
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: giving the speech for sure.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: And one other thing that just to know is like
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: progressives in Israel are furious about this decision. They feel
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: like they were hung out to dry and you know,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: you've got Netanyahu coming to Congress, but he hasn't found
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: the time to meet with like all these families of
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: hostages and communities that were affected by the October 7th attacks.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is a guy who, who, who pitched
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: himself as Mr. Security and He was a bad guy.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: He was tough, but he could keep you safe. And
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: this terrorist attack happened on his watch, and he won't
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: take any accountability for it. And to have him come
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: and spin for 30 minutes in front of the U.S. Congress,
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: it's a terrible decision.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, it is entirely consistent with Republicans
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: now elevating criminals, corrupt politicians, and right-wing autocrats here at
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: home and all over the world. That's true. That's the
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: world they want to live in right now.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: Cheers to that.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: Cheers to bringing kids into this world.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, Orban. That's what gets the Republican Party
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: going these days.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: Perfect.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Anyway, on that note, good to have you back, buddy.
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: Hey, great to be back.
• 54:43
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• 54:45
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