Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 95: Humility in Recovery: Why Men Protect Their Identity After Betrayal - with Ryan Collins

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95: Humility in Recovery: Why Men Protect Their Identity After Betrayal - with Ryan Collins · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey everybody. OK, So what if humility isn't
• 0:02
  about thinking less of yourself, but about finally seeing
• 0:07
  yourself more clearly? So in recovery, humility is one
• 0:12
  of those words we hear a lot about, but most men I work with
• 0:17
  either resist it, misunderstand it, or associate it with
• 0:21
  weakness. And yet, it's one of the most
• 0:24
  transformative shifts a man can make.
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  So today I want to break humility down into three things
• 0:31
  that have completely changed the way I see it and the way I see
• 0:35
  growth and recovery. And the best part is I'm
• 0:37
  involving a man in this journey that I completely respect.
• 0:41
  I love the way he sees things. So anyway, that's what we're
• 0:44
  going to talk about today. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
• 0:49
  podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
• 0:52
  I'm thrilled to have you join me in this space today.
• 0:54
  What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
• 0:57
  triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
• 1:00
  Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
• 1:02
  moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
• 1:05
  commitment to self that reveals the rich connection and meaning.
• 1:08
  That our life has to. Offer.
• 1:10
  So whether this is your? First time tuning in or you're a
• 1:12
  regular listener? Know this.
• 1:14
  What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
• 1:17
  You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
• 1:20
  incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
• 1:23
  Because when you dare. To show up fully.
• 1:25
  The rewards are immeasurable, so welcome to be on the facade.
• 1:28
  Let's get started. All right, everybody, so let's
• 1:32
  jump into this humility topic. But before we do, let me
• 1:35
  introduce Ryan. Ryan had been around the journey
• 1:38
  for a little while. I've got permission for him to
• 1:39
  say this. So if it's good, like wow,
• 1:41
  Luke's talk about Ryan stuff. We've already had dialogue about
• 1:44
  this, but Ryan, I've met him quite a few years ago and I
• 1:49
  still remember exactly where I was sitting.
• 1:50
  I actually had that conversation with him in my truck.
• 1:53
  I lived in Las Vegas at the time and I remember him coming and
• 1:56
  kind of like my story. I'm like, oh wow, this is a
• 1:59
  mess. Not like oh wow is in shame on
• 2:02
  Ryan, but that he got himself into just like me at Conundrum.
• 2:07
  And I don't know why I'm using that word, by the way, Ryan, but
• 2:10
  he well respected man in the community, accomplished good
• 2:14
  looking dude that's got, you know, things going for him.
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  And he just burnt the whole thing down, burnt the whole
• 2:19
  thing down. And I Ryan, I'll say this, I
• 2:22
  don't I don't go around questioning people whether
• 2:25
  they'll show up or not, But it is something where you get to
• 2:27
  see if somebody's going to show up there got knocked down.
• 2:31
  There's their their faces in the mud and you go, OK, let's see
• 2:34
  how they respond. And you were one of those guys.
• 2:36
  You were using a lot of the right words.
• 2:38
  I could tell you were a you could speak well, you could
• 2:42
  exude what and look like humility, but I was like, is he
• 2:44
  going to back it up? What's he going to do?
• 2:46
  So it's been a pleasure getting to know you.
• 2:49
  Ryan actually is a peer mentor in some of our men's groups.
• 2:53
  So watched him long enough to go like he has a lot to give.
• 2:56
  So that's why he's on this podcast.
• 2:58
  He has an amazing partner, man. She's she's strong, she's tough,
• 3:02
  she's like smart fighter. She doesn't put up with Ryan's
• 3:07
  bull crap. No, it's pretty cool.
• 3:10
  They make an amazing couple. Hopefully, maybe, maybe someday
• 3:12
  we'll get her on here too. I don't know.
• 3:15
  But again, Ryan, what do you want to say?
• 3:16
  Go ahead and defend yourself. No, to that most recent point
• 3:21
  you made, I think Steph is one of the bravest people I know for
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  wanting to stick with me in this journey as well as relocate with
• 3:30
  me and start over and build a new authentic marriage with me.
• 3:37
  That's pretty scary after somebody that's betrayed you the
• 3:40
  way that I did to the levels that I did.
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  That's so I think that's she's very brave.
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  She's also all the other things that you said.
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  So very true. She is, she's brave.
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  So I got 3 pillars for us to talk about, but we don't have to
• 3:52
  necessarily start in with those 3 pillars.
• 3:54
  Let's go somewhere else because I want to learn.
• 3:56
  I want the I want everybody to learn a little bit more about
• 3:59
  you. But let's just say them.
• 4:01
  Here's the three pillars. First pillar is accurate self
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  seeing without distortion because humility starts with
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  accuracy. So you're not minimizing, you're
• 4:10
  not exaggerating, you're not defending, you're not spinning
• 4:13
  the story to protect how you see it.
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  You're just telling the truth. Most men in recovery are used to
• 4:20
  one or two extremes, either justifying their behavior or
• 4:23
  shaming themselves for it. And neither one's really honest
• 4:26
  because one protects the ego and the other punishes it.
• 4:29
  What's your thoughts on this, Ryan?
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  Yeah, as I, as I think about my story, when everything came out
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  about about all that I had done, let's back up.
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  What's the opposite of humility? Right?
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  Pride. So when everything came out,
• 4:46
  you're right, my first instinct that I wasn't instantly humble.
• 4:49
  It was very prideful. It was very trying to protect my
• 4:51
  image, trying to guard against shame.
• 4:54
  Right. All those things.
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  And it took a little bit of time.
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  And I'm going to give you credit, Luke, but your, your
• 5:00
  program, you, everything you and Alana have, Bill has helped me a
• 5:03
  ton with with approaching this with that posture of heart.
• 5:08
  Like, Hey, I want to learn more about what's going on with me
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  and I want to be open to self reflection.
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  And I think that's where the humility started was right
• 5:19
  there. You.
• 5:20
  You were. Humiliated, but not necessarily.
• 5:23
  Doesn't mean that doesn't equal humble, right?
• 5:25
  Yeah. Big difference between
• 5:26
  humiliation and being humble, yeah.
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  Am I putting those words in your mouth, by the way when they say
• 5:31
  that? No, no, actually it is true
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  because I my story was the worst.
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  It was the worst, best thing that could have ever happened to
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  me at the moment. There was nothing worse that
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  could have gone, that could have transpired.
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  But looking back at it now, it's like now what an opportunity
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  that was to burn down everything that I had thought I'd built and
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  valued and to the place of being able to truly self reflect and
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  start thinking, OK, I can do better.
• 6:00
  Well, OK, so if humility sits right, if humility sits right in
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  the middle, it says this is what I've done and this is who I've
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  been and I'm willing to look at it without distortion.
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  What was it like for you trying to look at it without
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  distortion? Again, it's been a journey.
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  The funny thing for me was I did have this moment a few days
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  after D-Day where I thought something is wrong.
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  A good guy wouldn't do the things that I had done.
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  And I thought, you know what, I need to.
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  I thought, I want to better myself because whether things
• 6:40
  work out with Steph and I are not, I don't want to do this
• 6:44
  again to somebody else. And it started me on this
• 6:48
  journey of like, I really need to look within.
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  And I didn't know all the all the things about shame and guilt
• 6:54
  and even with humility, but I think I had that enough there.
• 6:57
  Enough of that self reflection initially just to think I need
• 7:01
  to look inside and see what's up.
• 7:02
  Yeah, when when you can't. So you can't change what you
• 7:06
  refuse to see clearly and you can't, you can't see it clearly
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  if you're constantly trying to protect your identity.
• 7:13
  So think of those early days, Ryan, like what did you notice
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  when it came to you trying to protect your identity or the
• 7:20
  lack of trying to protect it or what you were willing to see?
• 7:23
  Tell us like what that was like inside of you with that?
• 7:26
  Well, initially for me it was damage control, right?
• 7:31
  Cover up as much as I think I still can, right.
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  And that's part of that, like you said, covering up that
• 7:37
  previous identity was how do I still salvage the guy was
• 7:42
  because I can't go forward as this as a new guy, like I'm
• 7:46
  going to be the guy that cheated and ruined his life, right?
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  That was horrifying for me. So it was a lot of damage
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  control and a lot of lying and minimization to try to protect
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  what identity I thought I still had.
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  How how long did that last for? Do you mind sharing any of how
• 8:03
  long you were in that place of trying to protect?
• 8:05
  How about it? It took me 6 months and what I
• 8:09
  started to realize was even though the advice is don't
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  trickle out information right, Don't give your partner just
• 8:16
  enough to make them go away. I heard that.
• 8:20
  I've heard all that stuff, but I still couldn't actually do it.
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  I was too afraid of, you know what it was actually I, I didn't
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  fully trust that, that Stephanie just wanted the truth.
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  What do you what you what did you think?
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  I thought she wanted the nail. I thought she wanted the bullet
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  that was going to she was going to use to end the relationship.
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  That's what I thought she was looking for.
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  Got it. That's powerful, right?
• 8:48
  You know. Can you talk more about that?
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  Based on like early childhood experiences, right, you're, you
• 8:54
  learn these unhealthy ways of thinking that things are going
• 8:58
  to be taken from you or your attachment styles, right?
• 9:01
  Like you're, you need to have control over a situation because
• 9:05
  if you let go of the control, that person might not stick
• 9:08
  around or might not love me. And then I'm thrust into this
• 9:12
  situation right where I'm thrust into the light of all this truth
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  about me. And I thought, man, for sure, if
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  this person really knows the depth of what I've done to her,
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  it'll be over. And come to find out, that's the
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  thing that saved our marriage was when I finally let go of
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  trying to protect the guy, it was.
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  And why? Why?
• 9:38
  Yeah, yeah. Please don't make sense.
• 9:41
  Yeah, that's so by letting that go, it allowed me to move
• 9:48
  forward and step into full authenticity of being a new
• 9:50
  person because everything about me was fully known and my what?
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  And my wife knew everything and still was standing by my side
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  after she found out. And that just floored me.
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  I thought. I thought that's the last thing
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  that would say my marriage was if she knew all the horrible
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  details and truths. And that's what saved it.
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  That's why I'm still here almost four years later.
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  It's so big, so let's tie that back in so that first pillar is
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  accurate self seeing without distortion.
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  So for six months you were distorting.
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  You didn't believe that what? You thought she was trying to
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  finish it, but she was really just trying to see what was she
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  trying to see? She was trying to see if I could
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  be honest and if I was really ready to let go of protecting
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  the person that I was and step fully into recovery and an
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  authentic relationship. So why did you finally let go?
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  Honestly, because after six months of hiding all of that six
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  months of I had, I had lost 15 lbs.
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  I had lost, I was losing my hair.
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  I wasn't living at home. The stress and the anxiety of
• 11:02
  carrying the lies and carrying the shame around.
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  Still trying to protect right and hoping that that I did a
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  good enough job covering everything up was exhausting.
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  Exhausting. And in a moment where I had came
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  out with more truth to Steph, right, the trickle effect, she
• 11:27
  finally threw her hands up in the air and said, I'm done.
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  I can't do this anymore with you.
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  So it was in the moments after that where I just finally let
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  go. I just was like, I can't, I
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  can't carry this anymore. And like, it's going to be what
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  it's going to be. It was full surrender.
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  And that surrender is what ultimately she felt and was
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  like, man, OK, I think maybe you're ready to to move forward
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  with me. So very cool moment.
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  Very powerful moment when I just totally defied everything I
• 12:00
  thought would happen. So yeah.
• 12:04
  What? That's so powerful.
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  OK, so you stop editing the truth about yourself.
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  You're like, I'm going to just let it go.
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  I'm tired. I'm not.
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  I'm like, I'm ill. I'm losing my hair.
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  I'm not. I'm separated.
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  So that is the first pillar. That's you're like, OK, I'm
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  going to see myself. I'm going to stop trying to
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  distort this thing. OK, So let's talk second pillar.
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  So second pillar's willingness to be influenced.
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  So this is where humility starts to stretch most men.
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  OK. Yeah.
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  So because it means I'm no longer the final authority on
• 12:37
  myself, I'm going to stop thinking that I've got.
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  I know what? I know what it looks like to get
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  better. It means I'm open to feedback.
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  I'm open to correction, I'm open to someone else seeing something
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  in me that I don't see yet. And I think that's hard,
• 12:52
  especially for men who built our identity around being strong and
• 12:55
  being capable and being in control.
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  But in recovery, that isolation is what keeps that cycle alive.
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  So how does this relate to your journey?
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  Humility, the breaking down that isolation.
• 13:07
  How does it? Yeah, same.
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  Before discovery, I was not tolerant of criticism at all.
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  I had this very I inflated sense of being a perfect self.
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  You know what I mean? That I had delusionally created
• 13:22
  for myself as a child that I that if I perform for everybody,
• 13:26
  I'm perfect, that you can't criticize me because I'm good in
• 13:28
  all these other areas, right? So it was a major defense
• 13:31
  mechanism. But and then as we stepped
• 13:34
  forward and I started joining the group, group sessions and I
• 13:39
  started hearing other men talking about and self
• 13:42
  reflecting about these things. And what does it mean to show up
• 13:46
  for your wife? I don't, I had no idea what that
• 13:48
  meant. What does that mean?
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  Right? How do I show up?
• 13:50
  How do I hold her pain? What does that mean?
• 13:54
  Well, a pride, if you're harboring pride and you've got
• 13:57
  pride running wild, you can't do those things.
• 14:00
  And I didn't, I had no idea what empathy was either.
• 14:03
  No idea. So as I look at that
• 14:05
  transitional period, it was joining the group, seeing it
• 14:09
  happen and being willing to place myself in those examples
• 14:15
  other men were giving and say, OK, that kind of looks like me
• 14:19
  or what I do. I want to know more about that.
• 14:21
  What is that? So curiosity asking questions
• 14:24
  right leading into that, yeah. Did was that a slow transition
• 14:29
  to being open to being influenced, or did that
• 14:33
  transition pretty quickly at any point?
• 14:37
  Shockingly, that that was in most aspects, that was a pretty
• 14:40
  quick transformation for me. But I'm still human, right?
• 14:44
  Pride is still an emotion that still comes out for me, right?
• 14:47
  But it's recognizing what it does, taking a few breaths,
• 14:51
  breathing through it and letting it go and staying open.
• 14:56
  One of my favorite proverbs is when pride comes, then comes
• 15:01
  disgrace. But with humility comes wisdom.
• 15:04
  That's one of my favorite proverbs, man.
• 15:06
  And I use that all through my recovery, every time I've ever
• 15:10
  been prideful disgrace. But when I can stay in a posture
• 15:14
  of humility, I become wiser. I become I learned something.
• 15:19
  I don't shut down. So it's one of my favorite
• 15:22
  things. What have you noticed about
• 15:25
  other guys with us? A prideful person can't be
• 15:33
  helped from what I see when I see certain manner, new guys in
• 15:37
  Group that come in and they have that posture, like I already
• 15:41
  know this, I'm going to come in the group, I'm going to figure
• 15:42
  it out. I'm going to do this and this
• 15:44
  and everything's going to be great.
• 15:45
  And you can just tell they're just not they're not coming in
• 15:49
  this from a place of humility. Like what can I learn today?
• 15:52
  And that's been one of the biggest parts of my journey is
• 15:55
  saying I'm never going to be there.
• 15:59
  I'm never going to say I know everything because I learn
• 16:02
  something everyday and going into every day with where can I
• 16:07
  grow and what can I learn from today and how can I grow today
• 16:12
  That those are new things I carry with me every day.
• 16:17
  Is that posture staying open to learning something new?
• 16:21
  Do you think so? Give us something measurable
• 16:23
  that you and we watched other men to notice, whether there's
• 16:27
  pride involved or not, whether there's a lack humility and
• 16:30
  having others influence them. So if you look at around
• 16:32
  yourself and the other guys around you, how can you tell
• 16:36
  whether people are hoping to influence instead of doing it on
• 16:40
  their own? What's immeasurables?
• 16:44
  You might not tell me with this one.
• 16:46
  I don't know. I'm just curious to see what you
• 16:48
  actually have noticed. We sit there in the in groups
• 16:51
  and we sit there around other men.
• 16:53
  And if being influenced is a pillar to this humility piece,
• 16:57
  if I'm willing to be influenced, I don't know.
• 17:00
  I think it's pretty. I'm just thinking out loud here,
• 17:04
  but it feels like and be pretty easy to justify.
• 17:08
  Yeah, but I'm willing to be influenced.
• 17:09
  I'm willing to. But what if I'm really not?
• 17:12
  Maybe to kick us off with this part of the conversation is the
• 17:15
  ones that are like, like by themselves, they are in
• 17:20
  isolation. They show up maybe in groups, so
• 17:22
  they show up in other places, but they're still doing it on
• 17:24
  their own. They don't allow themselves to
• 17:27
  be challenged by other men. They're not open to or they tend
• 17:31
  to people please and go along. But I don't know, just some
• 17:33
  random ones. I don't know what you noticed
• 17:34
  through what we think about that.
• 17:39
  I think what it is we can maybe differentiate somebody that's
• 17:44
  having a prideful emotion versus somebody that is prideful,
• 17:50
  right, that that struggles with being prideful is that person
• 17:55
  that can come in with the defensive.
• 17:57
  Like you've seen that, Luke, some of the committed group and
• 18:00
  they're all wound up because they just got into it with their
• 18:03
  spouse about something. And then after they open up and
• 18:06
  share and the other men start pouring into them and saying,
• 18:09
  hey, what about this? Did you do this?
• 18:12
  Where can you take accountability for this?
• 18:14
  And if you see them start to go and you're right, you're right,
• 18:20
  I did that. I can be accountable there, man.
• 18:23
  Thanks for pointing that out. Humble, right?
• 18:25
  Prideful emotion, but more of a humble person.
• 18:30
  It's the other way when when someone comes in like that and
• 18:32
  you try to speak into them and the situation maybe to help and
• 18:37
  it's still met with, Nope, not this time.
• 18:39
  That's not it. It's like, all right, you'll
• 18:42
  have to figure this out the hard way then if that's the posture
• 18:45
  of your heart. So it's that like reluctance,
• 18:48
  right? To take a minute and lower the
• 18:51
  pride veil down and say, OK, I need to look at this maybe a
• 18:55
  little a little differently. I need to take a minute and self
• 18:58
  reflect. And that's one of the other
• 18:59
  parts I talked about with you was accountability, right?
• 19:03
  You kind of have to kind of go hand in hand, right?
• 19:05
  To be accountable requires a level of humidity.
• 19:08
  Humidity. It's human Texas.
• 19:10
  He knew it, right. So and that's another piece that
• 19:15
  I was new for me with recovery was actually taking
• 19:18
  accountability and saying, yeah, I can see how that probably hurt
• 19:23
  that I did that or that I said that or that I didn't do that
• 19:26
  right. I totally get that.
• 19:28
  I'm sorry. I totally see how that hurt so.
• 19:32
  What do you notice with guys that are accountable?
• 19:34
  What are they doing? Very quick to to grab as much
• 19:39
  ownership of a situation as they can.
• 19:41
  It's like the guys that pull the most and are the quickest to do
• 19:46
  it for the guys that I know are accountable.
• 19:48
  The first one to say that's my bad.
• 19:50
  I did that, not me. If I screwed up before recovery,
• 19:55
  man, you'd see me like creeping in like the don't put the
• 19:58
  attention on me. I don't want any of that.
• 20:00
  And now it's now it's like if you apologize.
• 20:05
  And you take full accountability first.
• 20:09
  What more is left to be said to you?
• 20:12
  Think about that. If you show up fully accountable
• 20:18
  to it and you grab all that you can and you say I'm sorry I did
• 20:22
  this, I did that, I messed up, I don't want to do this.
• 20:26
  And forgive me. You discovered all your bases
• 20:29
  and the other person's like wow, thank you for that.
• 20:32
  Thank you for not making this a 2 hour argument.
• 20:35
  So it's one of the big pieces that that's helped me a ton with
• 20:40
  growth is being able to also be accountable.
• 20:43
  Why are men being accountable when was in recovery?
• 20:47
  What's the motivation? It's funny, I all my identities
• 20:53
  for what a man used to be are totally different now, right?
• 20:57
  A man is humble, a man can be empathetic, a man can still be
• 21:02
  strong and be also accountable. So it's been this redefining for
• 21:08
  what a man or a leader should look like.
• 21:11
  And I feel like a, a true leader is accountable, right?
• 21:16
  Somebody that's a follower or somebody that is hiding, right,
• 21:21
  All that stuff. You're not going to take
• 21:22
  accountability. You don't want the spotlight on
• 21:24
  you. Yeah, for sure.
• 21:26
  Well, I think about this pillar and I'll say it again,
• 21:28
  willingness to be influenced. I think about more reflecting to
• 21:32
  myself, where am I still resisting influence or feedback?
• 21:37
  Because the challenge is how I see myself.
• 21:39
  I'm scared to be accountable. I'm scared to be influenced.
• 21:43
  I'm scared for feedback because it's going to change how I see
• 21:47
  myself. And I think it's about how other
• 21:49
  people see me. That's like, I can't change how
• 21:51
  I see me. But once I get rage to a place
• 21:55
  of accountability, I recognize that's actually what I need for
• 21:57
  connection. That's what I need for it to be
• 22:00
  seen by other people. Other people see me and I invite
• 22:02
  that. You know, a conflict without
• 22:05
  accountability is just deflection and gaslighting,
• 22:09
  right? Isn't that all it is?
• 22:10
  Like what we're trying to do is take the heat off yourself.
• 22:13
  And then what we do is we point it back to the other person,
• 22:15
  say, well, yeah, but what about what you do?
• 22:18
  It's not about what you do in this moment.
• 22:20
  It's about what I did. For sure.
• 22:23
  So. So let's talk third pillar.
• 22:25
  So third pillars letting go of the need to protect an identity.
• 22:29
  OK, so I'm thinking about this is this might be the deepest
• 22:32
  layer because a lot of behavior the men struggle with isn't just
• 22:36
  about the behavior, but they're about protecting their identity.
• 22:40
  Like the good guy, the successful one, the one who has
• 22:44
  them together, the one who's not like those other people.
• 22:48
  And that humility piece begins with I no longer need to defend
• 22:52
  that image. That's not what I'm after.
• 22:54
  So when I'm protecting an identity, I will distort reality
• 23:00
  to maintain it. So I know we kind of already
• 23:03
  talked about it, Ryan, but when I let go of that, something
• 23:07
  shifts. So what did you notice in your
• 23:08
  journey when you let go of that identity, that guy that you just
• 23:12
  look at people to see? Yeah, something came out for me
• 23:15
  as you were talking about that. And my particular situation was
• 23:18
  very public. And again, one of those worst,
• 23:25
  best things that could have happened, honestly, I had
• 23:28
  nowhere to hide. I was the bad guy.
• 23:31
  You were. Forced out in the open.
• 23:33
  Dude, yes, forced out in the open and my perfect guy
• 23:37
  reputation was burned to the ground in less than a week.
• 23:41
  And I would dare say thousands of people knew about it in our
• 23:44
  community, Right. And I, I have to be careful how
• 23:47
  I work this because again, it forced me to stay out in the
• 23:54
  light, but it also brought about a new form of strength for me to
• 24:00
  go, OK, everybody hates me and I've been to people pleaser my
• 24:04
  whole life. There's a lot of people that
• 24:05
  don't like me here right now. I'm still going to go to my kids
• 24:09
  basketball game at the school. I'm still going to show up to my
• 24:12
  daughter's volleyball game in front of all these parents that
• 24:16
  know everything about me. Yeah.
• 24:19
  So I couldn't protect that identity anymore.
• 24:21
  It was more like, OK, I have to be OK for a different reason
• 24:27
  now, then I have to be able to step forward into that.
• 24:29
  So that was one of those defining things or parts of my
• 24:36
  story than actually as I look back, was a blessing for me.
• 24:42
  Yeah. What do you?
• 24:43
  OK, so let me make sure I get this right.
• 24:45
  So crap hit the fan and everybody knew about it, but it
• 24:48
  still took you like 6 months to to come into reality and be
• 24:52
  willing to share all the details, right?
• 24:54
  Is that what I heard you say? Yep.
• 24:56
  OK, so can we speak to the betrayed partner who's so
• 24:59
  confused? The betrayed partner because
• 25:01
  they're 45% of our listeners. OK, the person that got hurt,
• 25:05
  you go. Why?
• 25:06
  Geez, why Ryan? Why the heck couldn't you?
• 25:09
  I know you've already talked about it, but give some help,
• 25:12
  understand, help us all understand why, even though crap
• 25:16
  at the fan, why you wouldn't let it just die immediately and just
• 25:20
  say hey, here's the real and I know you've already started with
• 25:24
  it, but let's. Talk about So as I look at it,
• 25:26
  this happened to me when I was 39, OK, How many years that I've
• 25:33
  had of that behavior, right? It took me a minute to come out
• 25:38
  of that addictive brain and out of that denial mentality to step
• 25:49
  into that level of what it takes to truly be in recovery.
• 25:55
  So as I look back, I give myself some grace because nobody's
• 26:01
  going to make that transition perfectly.
• 26:04
  You or I could sit here and tell everybody, look you and you did.
• 26:08
  Yeah. I heard you multiple times say
• 26:09
  like, don't trickle things out. Don't.
• 26:11
  Do you know what I mean? I still did it, but it's my
• 26:13
  journey. I had to do it my way and I had
• 26:16
  to do it in a way that that made sense to me in those moments.
• 26:19
  So giving myself some grace, and I know that's it's not easy, but
• 26:26
  it's also not easy to come out of a very addicted brain and
• 26:30
  step into the light and step into really being able to change
• 26:35
  how you look at situations, how you look at emotions, how you
• 26:40
  look at life, how you look at priorities.
• 26:43
  There's so much to it. That's why I'm glad that we're
• 26:46
  talking about humility today, because being able to lean into
• 26:50
  that level of humility to be able to self reflect.
• 26:56
  Yeah, the time. I think.
• 26:58
  I don't know if I have an organized way to go about this,
• 27:00
  but I want to relate it to you with two different pieces.
• 27:03
  One I remember wasn't very long before D-Day.
• 27:07
  It's completely probably unrelated experience, but we
• 27:10
  invited the new neighbors over and they were police.
• 27:12
  He was a police officer and we were laughing about how funny,
• 27:17
  not funny, I don't know what it is, but about how he's like when
• 27:22
  I with people that I deal with the get caught shoplifting,
• 27:28
  they'll be on camera and they'll actually be picking up the
• 27:32
  merchandise. You'll show them the camera and
• 27:34
  they'll be like it wasn't me and.
• 27:37
  Shaggy Song. Yeah, and we laughed about it.
• 27:40
  We laugh about it like it's you. It's.
• 27:42
  And they're like, no, it's not me.
• 27:43
  And that's the human brain. That's the way the human brain
• 27:46
  works. And I could think about when I
• 27:49
  got caught in 2014 with pornography and I decided I
• 27:54
  don't want to live this life anymore.
• 27:55
  I'm tired of it. And she's like, I need to know
• 27:58
  the truth. And I wanted to share the truth.
• 28:01
  I still went home and shared with her my intent still wasn't
• 28:07
  everything. It was like, I want to be
• 28:08
  honest. And as I'm explaining to her,
• 28:11
  OK, here's the here's the details.
• 28:15
  She's like, was that all? And in my mind I'm like, Oh my
• 28:17
  gosh, I don't think I know it all.
• 28:19
  I think it's too much. I think it's so much I don't
• 28:21
  even know how to get the details out.
• 28:22
  So I think there's this experience where our brains are
• 28:25
  made to see ourselves a certain way.
• 28:28
  Not I think they are made to see themselves ourselves a certain
• 28:31
  way. We started sorting that picture.
• 28:33
  We're going like, no, that's not true.
• 28:34
  You did take the purse. You did still, you have to start
• 28:38
  changing how you perceive yourself.
• 28:39
  The things you actively like do yourself on.
• 28:42
  So just to the betrayed partner, I am sorry.
• 28:45
  I am sorry that whether he got caught or they got caught or
• 28:49
  not, being in a place to be in a reality is almost earned.
• 28:55
  It's it's and I'm sorry that you don't have somebody that can
• 28:58
  just be and give you all the details, but their brain is made
• 29:01
  to protect itself. It takes time anyway.
• 29:03
  What's called to your head, right?
• 29:05
  No, that's, yeah, that's a big part, the that apology for I'm
• 29:14
  sorry that it can't just be everything all all at once.
• 29:20
  Yeah. Sorry, in one moment I can't
• 29:22
  just go to you and say, hey, here's all of truth because I've
• 29:26
  not, I've not set myself up to be able to share truth.
• 29:30
  Right. So there's this piece of this
• 29:33
  third layer, letting go of your need to protect their identity.
• 29:36
  That humility begins when I no longer need to defend that
• 29:40
  image. So I sat down that image and I
• 29:43
  go, OK, I'm going to stop trying to protect.
• 29:46
  And I believe that it's going to cost me everything I believe
• 29:49
  that it's going to cost, which is not true.
• 29:51
  Ryan, you very much said she wasn't trying to find the bullet
• 29:54
  that she could end the relationship with.
• 29:55
  She's needed reality and took you time to be able to see that.
• 29:59
  So I want to tie this to freedom a little bit.
• 30:02
  And that's where real freedom starts.
• 30:04
  It's not when I become a better version of that image until I
• 30:07
  stopped needing that image at all.
• 30:09
  And like, gosh, not needing that image at all.
• 30:12
  That's a transition. So please don't weaponize this.
• 30:16
  If you're a betrayed partner, if you're the betraying partner,
• 30:20
  it's not OK for you to weaponize this and tell your partner.
• 30:22
  It takes time to change. Just recognizing that there's a
• 30:26
  there's this turning this stocking to self protect.
• 30:30
  Well, that's funny you mention that because staff had told me
• 30:32
  looking back Earth's a year later or whatever, she looked
• 30:38
  back at the situation that six month period and she goes, I
• 30:42
  didn't ask you to go to group. I didn't ask you to see a
• 30:45
  therapist. You started doing that stuff on
• 30:47
  your own. And to what I told you earlier,
• 30:51
  Luke, was that I didn't want to do this again to somebody else
• 30:55
  if things didn't work out with Stephanie.
• 30:56
  I wanted to be better. I didn't know what exactly was
• 30:59
  broken, but I wanted to be better.
• 31:02
  So to to the point you were just making, you don't weaponize this
• 31:07
  because it's it, you can see through it if you're not doing
• 31:10
  the work on your own and you're not really showing up
• 31:14
  differently. That's the other thing Steph
• 31:15
  started to tell me. She's like, you were showing up
• 31:17
  differently. You were talking about things
• 31:18
  you never used to talk about proactively without me dragging
• 31:22
  it out of you. My to be cautious with this,
• 31:28
  right? To to someone that's been
• 31:30
  betrayed, if you're seeing the proactive side and you're seeing
• 31:34
  the change in heart and you're seeing the genuineness, it's not
• 31:39
  to say he's fixed or that person is fixed, but that person's
• 31:42
  trying to get there. And to the person that's
• 31:45
  betrayed, right? Yeah.
• 31:48
  What's your why? Why are you doing this?
• 31:52
  Yeah, tell us the person that's betraying what's your why?
• 31:54
  Why are you doing this right? Yeah, Why are you here?
• 31:57
  Why are you in recovery? Somebody listening to this
• 31:59
  podcast? Let's just tie this back into no
• 32:02
  matter where you're at in your recovery right now.
• 32:03
  So humility isn't something you master wants.
• 32:05
  It's not like, OK, I'm going to be humble.
• 32:08
  I'm going to own my stuff. It's something that we practice
• 32:11
  daily. It's showing up and how you
• 32:13
  respond to feedback. So maybe just a moment of
• 32:16
  reflection. Like how do I sit with
• 32:18
  discomfort? How do I sit with how honest I'm
• 32:22
  willing to be when nobody's watching?
• 32:24
  How open am I to feedback? How much do I involve other
• 32:27
  people in my journey? And the more you lean into it,
• 32:30
  the more capacity builds, the more you're tolerant of that
• 32:32
  experience. And then there's empathy.
• 32:35
  There's an opportunity for connection.
• 32:36
  Then it's, it's not a smaller one, but it's huge.
• 32:41
  Anyway, any closing thoughts on all this, Ryan?
• 32:45
  Yet to to men seeking recovery, don't be afraid to talk about
• 32:50
  this. Don't be afraid to find places
• 32:53
  where you can healthfully talk about this.
• 32:55
  One of the best things that I've done, how long my journey has
• 33:00
  been open to share my story with people.
• 33:03
  And the reason I do that is I don't want to get back into the
• 33:06
  place of hiding. I like people to know who I was
• 33:10
  and where I've been because those people will either.
• 33:16
  If they want to be my friend, they'll stick around.
• 33:18
  If they don't, they won't and that's OK.
• 33:21
  But I want the authenticity of people that want to be around me
• 33:24
  because of who I am now and what I was right in, that I'm OK to
• 33:28
  talk about it and be real. So there's a level of
• 33:32
  authenticity and humility to be in that place of like, man, I
• 33:36
  made some horrible decisions. I did some stupid things, but
• 33:39
  I've learned a lot. I learned every day and I'm
• 33:44
  rooted in being OK with who I am now and OK to let go of who I
• 33:50
  was and move forward and talk about it.
• 33:53
  That's OK. Absolutely.
• 33:56
  We'll write it as a player to have you here.
• 33:58
  Thank you for being you're. Hopefully men get a chance to
• 34:02
  lean into an opportunity to be in a group.
• 34:05
  Maybe they'll rub shoulders with you.
• 34:06
  But thanks for your willingness to be here.
• 34:09
  No, thanks for having me, Luke, and thanks again for the program
• 34:11
  that you have, man. You're one of the cornerstones
• 34:14
  of my recovery. So you and all the coaches that
• 34:16
  I worked with and the group members that I've worked with
• 34:19
  over the the years too. So thank you all.
• 34:21
  Appreciate that. Alana Halley and myself are so
• 34:25
  excited about our upcoming July Costa Rica intensive Rise, Renew
• 34:32
  and Restore. This is going to be a sacred
• 34:35
  fusion of science, soul and somatic renewal.
• 34:40
  For those of you who are doing the work now, it's time to
• 34:44
  receive. You've faced the pain.
• 34:47
  You're rebuilding your strength. You've carried the weight of
• 34:50
  healing. You've shown up for therapy.
• 34:52
  You've shown up for your family, your responsibilities, and
• 34:55
  you've learned how to survive all of it.
• 34:56
  But even after all of your growth, maybe you're still
• 34:58
  feeling a little bit disconnected.
• 35:00
  Disconnected from life. Disconnected from yourself, your
• 35:03
  body, and from joy. Healing helps you survive.
• 35:07
  But you deserve more than just survival.
• 35:08
  You deserve to fully live. This retreat is for women who
• 35:12
  have done a significant amount of healing work and are ready to
• 35:15
  rise, rise into the next phase of wholeness, the next phase of
• 35:20
  living. You're longing for rest.
• 35:21
  You're longing for joy. You're longing for that deeper
• 35:25
  connection to yourself. This retreat is going to give
• 35:29
  you just that deep healing luxury and adventure.
• 35:33
  Between all of the modalities that Halle, Alana, and myself
• 35:36
  bring to the table. You're going to have an
• 35:38
  incredible experience. Spaces are filling up and are
• 35:42
  limited. Head over to the show notes and
• 35:44
  check out Rise, Renew and Restore.
• 35:47
  Get your spot held today. We say every week at the end of
• 35:50
  every episode, choose Recovery, choose Healing and choose you.
• 35:54
  This intensive is going to take choosing you to a whole new
• 35:59
  level. Cannot wait to see you there.
• 36:06
  Hey, thanks for joining us today.
• 36:08
  If this is something. That you connected with.
• 36:10
  I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
• 36:12
  So what you can do is go to choose.
• 36:13
  Recoveryservices.com. Or check the show notes.
• 36:17
  And there what we can do is set up a quick conversation we need.
• 36:20
  Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
• 36:22
  unmask the authentic self.