Latest / The Real News Podcast / Trump’s war on philanthropy is a war on civil society. This donor network is fighting back.

Transcript

Trump’s war on philanthropy is a war on civil society. This donor network is fighting back. · The Real News Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Trump administration continues to weaponize the federal government to
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: carry out President Trump's wars on his critics, on the media,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: on the world of higher education, on federal workers, and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: on the administrative and regulatory functions of the federal government itself.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: And these attacks have understandably gotten more public attention over
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the past year. But what has gotten significantly less attention?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: is how Trump's allies and his administration are waging war
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: against the world of progressive philanthropy and on progressive philanthropists
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: themselves and the many civil and human rights-supporting movements, media organizations,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and nonprofit institutions that depend on them. The short-term and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: long-term impacts of this will be seismic. but we're not
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: talking about it enough. And so to talk about what
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: this all looks like and how people are navigating it
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: within the world of progressive philanthropy, I'm really grateful to
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: be joined today by Lina Barakat, president and CEO of
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the Women Donors Network. Lina, thank you so much for
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: joining me today. To start, please just tell our audiences
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: a little more about yourself, the Women Donors Network, and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the work that y'all do. And then tell us about
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: how the Trump administration's war on philanthropy is affecting you,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the WDN, and the work that you do.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Max. It's great to be here. As you said,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: my name is Lena Barakat. I am the president and
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: CEO of Women Donors Network and our C4 affiliate organization,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Women Donors Action. I have spent nearly two decades working
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: of my career working across the grassroots philanthropic and private sector.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: to really move and shift resources and power towards communities
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: that are fighting for justice. And 10 of those years
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: has actually started out as a young member of WDN
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: to this moment. We've been around for 30 years. We
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: are a national network of donors that are committed to
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: using our wealth, our influence, our privilege, and our collective
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: power to advance justice. And as a collective giving model,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: that has translated to over $ 160 million that has been
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: moved across the field to frontline organizations. But our work
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: goes far beyond just writing checks. As a donor network,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: we help our members really examine their relationship with their
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: their resources, their wealth and their power and help them
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: leverage that more strategically. So that has meant more funding
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: of grassroots movements, building political power, organizing our peers across
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the sector and preparing really for us, the next generation
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: of women donors to lead and continue this work. And
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: to answer your question, I think this movement has been
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: incredibly this moment, excuse me, has been incredibly clarifying for us.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: You know, as you said, the administration is using their
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: power to really intimidate all of us and create chaos
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: and fear amongst nonprofits worldwide. and make funders afraid of
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: funding them. And so the result that we're seeing is
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: many institutions retreating and pulling back resources precisely at the
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: moment communities need it the most. And so for us,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: you asked how is this sort of impacting us? We're
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: not taking the bait. It's only sharpened our focus in
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: this moment. We know that in this moment, it is
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: not just important to sustain movements and continue resourcing and
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: funding these movements. But actually, you go bigger, you go harder.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: We need to scale these movements and organize not just ourselves,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: but the philanthropic sector to really stand together. And again,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to help donors in this moment and anyone in this
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: moment to leverage every resource and form of influence and
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: power they have, not just their money, but their voices
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: and relationships to fight back. And that's exactly what we're doing.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned the war on philanthropy. Now, in
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: terms of that, I feel like this is so much
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: bigger than that. Honestly, this is so much bigger than
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the war on philanthropy. This is really a broad, you know,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: this is a war on dissent, you know, and I
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: think we have to talk about it. We have to
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: talk about it. I think this is really about how
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: if you think about it from the perspective of the
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: administration itself. it is absolutely in their best interest to
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: create this climate of fear, to create fracture among us
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and atrophy within the sector, and specifically within the social
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: justice sector, where you are seeing critical resources and services
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: moving to communities that need it most, but also who
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: are organizing around dissent and organizing towards justice, which is
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: against This administration's direct agenda. And so essentially, you know,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: what is their strategy to do that? If they want
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: to really accelerate their agenda, they have to cut them off,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: you know, do what they can to cut this off
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: at their knees.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: To turn off the faucet on the very resources that
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: are fueling this. These movements to begin with. And that
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: has so therefore it has included attacks on progressive philanthropy,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: you know, the resource who's resourcing these movements. And so
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: as a result, we're this exactly what we're seeing. We're
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: naturally seeing an escalation of these attacks. And, you know,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: funders and the response to that has been sort of
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: an array of response across the spectrum. I think traditional
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: philanthropy has unfortunately responded with a lot of hesitation, you know,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: fallen in line with the fear, clenched their pearls and
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: decided to reevaluate strategies, their risk and retreat from funding.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And many of them have gone into, frankly, self-preservation mode.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And I think the story in their minds is, we
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: need to protect ourselves if we're going to protect everyone else.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: It's no good if they go after us. And so
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: that has looked like protecting their endowments and themselves and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: somewhat abandoning many organizations who have far less resources, who
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: are far more vulnerable in this particular climate. And philanthropy
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: is or philanthropic survival, I would say is important. Of
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: course it is. I'm not gonna argue that it's not,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: but it will never, it will never be more important
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: than supporting the people and communities we exist to serve
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: to begin with. And, you know, so this is, you know,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: when you ask like, what has this done, you know,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: for us or how has it impacted us? It's just
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: given us a lot of clarity. Our work right now
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: is really about how we are thinking about, you know,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: continuing to stand and defend these movements organizing the sector
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and really building the power and capacity of our women
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: donors to stand up and fight back. You know, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: the last thing I'll say too on this piece is
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I think this is a movable moment. I think there's
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of reason for very good reason to, you know,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: be afraid. You know, inevitably there's a lot more risk
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: in this moment. I won't deny that for sure. But
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: this is also a time of transformative thinking. As much
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: as systems and old patterns are crumbling right now, you know,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: one could argue it's not totally a bad thing. These
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: structures and institutions weren't serving many of us to begin with.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: And so while we're seeing this sort of dismantling of
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: so many institutions, old systems and structures and patterns, in
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: addition to our civil liberties, I think this is also
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: a time to think about, like, what do we want
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: this future to look like? And how do we get
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: on the design team of what comes next? I feel
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: like if structural racism and inequality can be designed, so
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: can justice. And I want to be on that team.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, it's so Refreshing to hear
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you say that because, you know, like obviously The Real
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: News is very open about the fact that we are
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: a nonprofit news network. We're a 501c3, right? We like
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: so many other independent media outlets that you watching this,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you know, also subscribe to. We depend on the philanthropy
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: sphere as much as we depend on small donations from
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: viewers like you. But like when they're coming after us,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: they're coming after you because they don't want us being
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: able to report on the movements, the stories, lifting up
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the voices that we do so that you can see
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the truth.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: There's a playbook to this. You know, as students of history,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: you see the cycles and the patterns, the writings on
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the wall. It's very clear. And in many ways, it's
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: not as sophisticated as, you know, one might think. I think,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: you know, for the average viewer in public, I don't
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: expect everyone to be paying attention to this in the
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: same particular way. But it does give us insight into
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: how to respond and how to move in this moment.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: It's not as unprecedented as one might think. If you
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: look at a larger context in history, just as we
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: were talking about funder retrenchment, this is a tactic. This
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: in and of itself is a tactic, but a tactic
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: of part of what? What are they trying to do
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: right now? I really want to think about like what
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: is the end game here? What is this? And ultimately,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: in many ways and in the context of what we're
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: talking about with the philanthropic sector and the nonprofit movement
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: and the broader movements for social justice, this is really
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: about how we weaken the capacity and the infrastructure of
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: our movements so that we no longer– to disrupt our progress,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: to disrupt momentum– You've heard many people say, I'm sure
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: in the past, that this is actually, this is what
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: we're seeing as a backlash to the tremendous strides and
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: progress that we've made, the tremendous wins we've had and movements.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, when you think about how might they,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: what can they do to weaken the capacity and infrastructure
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: of our movements, you think about it. And for me,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: there's like three things that really come to mind. One, and,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: you know, as again, student of history has been really important,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: has been documented as part of this playbook. So what
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: is in that playbook? One is to sow fear, right?
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  Speaker 2: Employing tactics of fear and intimidation. This is, you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: creating false accusations, claiming, you know, a lot of putting
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: out a lot of information and disinformation, putting organizations and
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: groups on lists and threatening to revoke their C3 statuses.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: You might have, you might recall last year, was it
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: last year? Yeah, it was just last year, The bill H.R. 9495,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: this was otherwise known as the nonprofit killer bill. This was,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: you know, a bill that was like heinous bill that
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: was put forward, accusing a list of organizations, you know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: slandering them with accusations of terrorism and hate and anti-Semitism
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: and like all of the buzzwords you can imagine. What
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: to what end is to actually really create violence? a
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: funder freeze so that people stop moving resources to them,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: accusing them, and then requests for investigation of these organizations
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: to potentially strip them of their C3 statuses, you know,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: for any organization that is accused of wrongdoing without ever
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: defining what the wrong is, right? Without ever having to
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: prove what that wrongdoing is. So these are sort of
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: some of the tactics that created a lot of chaos
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: and fear and frantic behavior within the sector of which
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I think was very intentional on their part. They want
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: to isolate these organizations. They want to isolate these movements,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: call them bad things so that no one goes near them.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: This immediately creates, this is a very destabilizing effect. Number
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: two is fracture, right? This is about how the ways
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: in which they have sown a lot of fracture within
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: our movements and tried to sort of pin movements against
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: each other. We've seen this across history and we don't
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: have to look that far back in history. This has
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: been part of the playbook all along.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Divide and conquer, baby.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's all it is. That's all it is, right?
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And so to pin movements and organizations and groups and
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: communities against each other. And I think our biggest mistake
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: historically has been falling for that, right? It's like actually
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: giving into that. And three is capacity drain. So this
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: is where you see lawfare tactics get into play. So H.R.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: 9495 also plays into that a little bit. But we've
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: seen a slew of organizations all of a sudden get
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: these lawsuits accusing them of fraud in their funding or
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: in their behavior, suddenly needing to double down on their
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: audits and trying to find anything. And most of these
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: lawsuits have resulted in losses for them, but a win,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: a net win for them because it has drained the
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: organization's capacity, their resources, their time. It has distracted them
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: away from what the work is. This is a tactic.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: So even though there's a higher rate of losses, the
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: organization's winning these cases and the opposition losing, ultimately they
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: have won just knowing that that a lot of time, resources,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: and capacity has been. And this is weakening the infrastructure
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: of the movement. And so this is, you know, this,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: when you think about that, when you employ these types
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: of tactics, um, it is a very destabilizing effects. It
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: slows down momentum, um, and it creates the funder retrenchment
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: moment that we are seeing in this moment, you know, um,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: in the last few months alone, um, I would say since, um,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: the spring and just three organizations, three funding organizations, very
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: well known, um, And what has been historically seen as
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: sort of like stable, stable, stabilizing funding organizations have decided
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: to reevaluate their strategies, reduce their sort of brisk appetite
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: and completely pulled out of funding a lot of the
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: movement organizations we have seen. And those three funding organizations alone,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: and I'm only naming three, there have been many, have
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: amounted to over $ 150 million pulled from our movements. And
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: some of it is going into effect immediately. A lot
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: of it won't start until next year, which means, Max,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: we're sitting with sticker shock. We haven't even seen the
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: material impact this is going to have. on our broader movement.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: So it just, this is, I think, part of that playbook.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And for us, we need to see the writing on
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: the wall and resist it immediately.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Well, and I hate to make light of any of that,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: but my impulse is to, like, tell our viewers, but wait,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: it gets worse, right? I mean, like, they're doing that
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: to the media, right?
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, everything that.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: You're saying sounds like what, you know, we're experiencing on
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the media side. Like, you have the high-profile media attacks against,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you know, like corporations like ABC and Disney. You have
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the coordinated attacks on the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: all the public media. But you also have attacks on
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: independent outlets like Breakthrough News. Like they are going for
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: everybody that they can in philanthropy and media and higher ed.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Like and it even makes me think of you know, the, the,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the doge, you know, a department of government efficiency, so-called
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: cuts to, you know, USAID. We saw organizations around the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: world that were dependent on USAID go under like a
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: lot of people died and are dying because of it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: This is not a, you know, again, this isn't a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: theoretical argument anymore. People have died because of it. And
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of us didn't realize how many people, organizations
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: around the world were dependent on that funding until it
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: was frankly too late. And so like, I want to
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: kind of, there's a comparison in my mind to like
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about here to that. And I wanted
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: to sort of Ask if we could talk about those
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: trickle-down effects that this is having on the ecosystem of
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: movements and organizations and institutions, not just like ours, but
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: so many others out there that depend on philanthropic support.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. I
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: think if you want to talk about this, we have
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: to actually understand the impact that this is having. I
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: actually want to take us back to why and how
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: the impetus of philanthropy's existence to begin with. Like, why
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: does philanthropy exist, right? It is truly, it is a sector,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: an institution, a method of actually filling the gaps of government.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: This is why philanthropy was created. It was intentionally created
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to fill the gaps of providing aid and services and
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: care to help civil society in ways that the government
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: could not step in and support. And so when you
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: think about that, if philanthropy exists to fill the gaps
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: of government and then the government's going after philanthropy, right?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: This is having a material impact on the daily lives,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: like the very basic livelihood of many Many individuals, people
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: who have nothing to do with anything, right? This is,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: you know, even outside, I would even expand it beyond
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: movement against dissent. These are just everyday communities. whether that's
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: here in the United States or internationally, who rely on
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: these resources to live. And so whether that's disaster recovery,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: providing critical health care, stipends, legal services, like all of
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: this is the kind of thing that is a baseline
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: of dignity in our lives. And they have directly, cutting
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: these programs have directly impacted that for everyone. And I
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: think this is increasing the stakes and the tension in
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: which we are operating right now. And so this is
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: why it's like, it's really important to note, like this is,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: this retention doesn't happen in a vacuum, right? This is happening,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: this part of this broader trend towards authoritarianism where, you know,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: institutions that once, you know, saw themselves as allies and
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: supporters and service and care providers in this moment are suddenly,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: this is why that decision to recalculate or to, sorry,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: to pull back funding is, and recalculate their risk is
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: actually inherently a political decision, right? This is the quietly
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: stepping back and normalizing retreat And trying to see that
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: as a reasonable choice, this has a tremendous cost on everybody.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: And we're seeing a lot of organizations right now, you know, say, well,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: we're not political or we don't want to get involved.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Everything is political when you are impacting the daily lives
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: and the dignity of people and communities. And so the
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: normalization of that is something that, you know, is exactly
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: what we're trying to disrupt right now is exactly like
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: we do not accept it. And this is what we're
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: trying to organize around. And that's really sort of led
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: to what has become co-founding the Block and Build Funder
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Coalition is really to really disrupt the normalization of the
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: retreat as much as possible. We founded the, you know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: we founded the Block and Build Funder Coalition two years ago.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: So it was actually under the Biden administration. And I
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: just say, like, you know, I think people tend to
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: subscribe what is happening in this moment to Trump. It
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: has accelerated in Trump, but this isn't just, this is
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: a bipartisan problem, to be completely frank with you. This
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: is a complete, so under the Biden administration, we saw
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: the very, you know, a list of organizations that You know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: it was Palestinian Palestinian rights organizations and movement organizations and
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the several funders of them put on the same list
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: request for investigation, you know, all the slander and accusations
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: of terrorism and hate that we talked about earlier. And
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I knew that this was a test. This was going
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: to be a test for how like how we responded
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: to this was inevitably going to have an impact on
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: on everybody else. And so we launched the Block and
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Build Funder Coalition to really build a muscle around solidarity,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: to understand this concept that this is all of us
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: or none of us in this particular context. moment, and
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: to also hold the line on non-capitulation. And so the
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: coalition now has grown to over 270 funding institutions we
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: meet every single month and that are committed to really
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: resisting authoritarianism, defending our movements on the ground, and safeguarding
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: our civil liberties as much as possible. And what that
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: looks like more practically right now is, as I said,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: the normalizing of solidarity and holding the line on non-capitulation,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: this idea that it's all of us or none of
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: us and that we are stronger together than we ever
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: will on our own. We can be more courageous together.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: And it also has meant that we are showing up
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: proactively to frontline groups and really centering them in the
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: agenda and the prioritization of our work right now, really
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: understanding what they're experiencing, what they are seeing, where the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: attacks are coming from and making sure we are organizing
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: ourselves as funders to fill in those gaps or to
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: have sort of strategic interventions to stop this as much
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: as possible. And that has also included, you know, providing
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: safety and security for a lot of these organizations who
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: don't have the resources to safeguard their sort of, whether
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it's digital footprints or physical security. And finally, giving our
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: movements and these organizations permission to build anew, right? This is,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: we need to get off of this sort of like crisis,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: this crisis loop that we are in and give our
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: movements permission to actually dream about what comes next, to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: actually pilot their ideas and fund those resources. Because as
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I said to you earlier, this is actually very much
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: a builder's moment. And so it's been work that I've
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: spent incredibly purposeful in this moment. And I think some
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: of the quiet impact of that has been the loud
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: organizing around the philanthropic sector, shifting the culture in this
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: moment to not be afraid to go bigger, to go bolder,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: to be very clear, not to bend the knee. And
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: we've heard a lot of funders really say to us
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that they were really on the cusp of pulling back
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: themselves just out of fear and knowing that they were
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: part of something like block and build funder coalition, they
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: felt less alone and they, you know, and, and have, um,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: it's prevented them from, from doing that. And they've, and
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: our message to them is keep funding, keep going. Um,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you know, we're stronger together than we are on our own.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: You know, it's, it's wild listening to you talk about
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the block and build funder coalition, um, because it's like
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: someone who interviews workers around the country and around the world,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: like for a living, um, I'm like, sounds like what
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: you guys got there is a union, um, you know, and,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and like, Hey man, like, you know, the, the, the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: old truths, you know, are the strongest for a reason,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah. Injury to one, it is an injury
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: to all solidarity will be our salvation. We are stronger
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: together than we are alone. Um, and I think those
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: enduring messages, uh, you know, are evident in the ways
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: that people are fighting back across the spectrum of struggle.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Like Working people on the front lines of their exploitative
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: bosses or neighbors on the front lines of ICE raids.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: People banding together at that grassroots level. But also, it
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: sounds like what y'all in the world of philanthropy are doing.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: What we're hearing about folks like Mark Ruffalo and other
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: artists and cultural figures doing. banding together to stand up
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: for Palestine or to stand against the sort of oligarchic
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: takeover of the whole media ecosystem. There is power in
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: what unions and, and kind of movements can teach us. Um,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and I really love that, that you take so much
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: inspiration from the, the stories of our, of our past, because,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you know, that's, that's what we do here as well. And,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: you know, it's also, um, So like you named the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: elephant in the room. And I think like we should
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: we should talk about it here.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, we got to talk about Palestine. And,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: you know, you are Palestinian-American and you have been an
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: outspoken leader, an advocate for social justice. We at The
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Real News have just been relentlessly covering the truth of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Israel's occupation of Palestine and its ethnic cleansing of Palestinians there.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Not just since 2023, but since the existence of the
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: real news. And you and I both know they are
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: trying to criminalize, punish, and smother any form of solidarity
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: with Palestinians and label it as support for terrorism. Any
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: criticism of Israel and its genocide is anti-Semitism. So that's
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: where we are. So what do we do about that?
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost, I actually just, I want to,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: from the bottom of my heart, thank the Real News
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Network for doing that work, for being the truth tellers
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: that you are, being an independent media news outlet. I
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: know what a struggle that is right now. And to
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: cover a topic like this that has had a material
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: impact on perhaps in the past, your capacity to grow
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: and get even bigger supporters. And I hope it is now,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: you are now experiencing the flip of that, an increase
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: in support and resources and subscribers and followers, because The
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: truth is the truth everywhere, everywhere you go. And I
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: appreciate that that is held true for the Real News Network. Max,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: you said, let's talk about the elephant in the room, Palestine. Listen,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: it is, it isn't, Palestine isn't the elephant in the room.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: It is the room, right? It is the room. It has, like,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Palestine has changed the world and for the, in the
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: ways in that it has exposed the corruption and and
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: the broken and unfit systems that have become a defining
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: moment of this time in our history. I want people
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: to understand that defending Palestinian freedom is the key to
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: defending all movements for justice. It always has been. It always, always, always,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: always has been. That hasn't new. That wasn't, that's not
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: a post 2023 thing. That is day one. And this
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: is exactly why, this is exactly why they have criminalized, isolated,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: made taboo this conversation. Because if you pull the string
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: on this, you pull the string on this, you pull
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: the string on all of it, all of it. And
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: who's benefiting from that right now? They don't want us
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: to know. Right. And so the minute we actually take
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: back our power, our voice, our truth in this particular
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: moment and can stand for the Palestinian for Palestinian freedom.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: This is this is the key to to to supporting
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: movements around the world. It will break down systems. It
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: will break down and old patterns. And guess what? Those
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: are exactly the right systems and patterns we want to
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: break down because it is exactly what has been holding
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: us back. This is not just in Palestine. This is here.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And I think one thing we've been trying and I've
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: been in my own work really trying to do the
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: education around is how do you connect the dots between
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: what is happening there and our democracy here? And years ago,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: it was so hard and so hard for people to
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: really see that. Like, it wasn't just me being a Palestinian. Yes,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I am a Palestinian. I'm very personally invested in this issue.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: But it's so much bigger than that. This is about
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: us as people, as oppressed people globally and the haves
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: versus the have nots and trying to have a politics
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: that works for the people, not just the power. And
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: so I think Palestine to me, I think was very
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: hard case to make for a long time of the
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: ways in which what's happening over there is connected to
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: the fundamental issues operating model of our democracy to begin with.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: And now look at where we're at, right? The sort
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: of canceling of APAC and the people have woken up
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: to the fact that, you know, many of our politicians
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: are actually bought out. What? This is not actually a democracy, right?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: What does that mean? And in fact, the ones who
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: are being paid to be in office or, you know,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and are the ones that are actually working against our
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: interests as people. That the money that's going over there,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: wait a minute, that's not, that's the same money that
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: we could be using here on our education systems and
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: our healthcare systems and infrastructure more broadly. What are we doing? Like,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: what are we doing sending $ 8 billion, I think, to,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: you know, an oppressive military, international military around the world,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: but we don't have money to feed the poor, as
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Tupac would say.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Our schools are.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Crumbling, yeah. 100%, like, what is that? Like, he's out
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: there writing checks of money we don't have. Like, do
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: you have money we don't have? Like, I just, I don't,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: you know. So I think that's what this has exposed.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And I think it is, I think, and this is
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: where I, this is where I have a tremendous amount
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: of confidence. This is where I have tremendous amount of hope.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: This is where I feel like most energized in this
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: moment because the wrap's up, right? We see it. As
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: a people, we see it. And we won't unsee it now, right?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: And it means that it has completely shifted the conversation
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: and our bar and our standard for what we look
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: for when we think about a democracy that works for us,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: when we think about budgets and systems that work for us.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: And all of us should be so grateful to the
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: strength and the resilience and the beauty of the Palestinian
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: people who have been so clear on this from the
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: very get-go and for the gift that it has given us.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I don't think this is about us freeing Palestine as
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: much as how much they have freed us. And I
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: hope that's something that gets really seen and recognized one day.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I thought that was beautifully and powerfully put, Lena, and
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you for saying it. And let's end here
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: by kind of zooming out and really putting people's focus
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: on what can be done right now and in the
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: long term. Like what is Women Donors Network doing? What
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: can people do? watching this do to change the outcome here?
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Right now, in this moment, the most important thing you
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: can do, the most important thing any person, any listener,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: anyone in the world, this is all of us, can
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: do is to not give up your power. And what
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: do I mean by that? Your hope. Right. Your sense
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: of hope in this moment, your disillusionment for the future.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I understand the fear and the exhaustion of this moment
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: of time that we are in, but we cannot lose
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: sight of what is possible in this moment. I think
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: the minute we lose sight of that, the minute we
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: lose hope, the minute we shrink ourselves.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: The minute we shrink ourselves in the moment, we are
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: giving up our power before we've even fought the fight together. Right.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: And so that's the second part of this is don't
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: go it alone. Do not do not soak alone. Find
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: your community, find your people, find your friends, find a
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: an organizing home. Find an organizing home. If you have
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: resources to move at any level, truly, I don't care
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: if it's $ 5, I don't care if it's $ 500, 000, whatever
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: the range is, use it. Find a philanthropic home and
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: find your political home right now. This is a time
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: of the people. This is the time of the people.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: This is our time to rise up. There is more
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: of us than there are of them. And they don't
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: want us to know that. They want us to forget that.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: And so I say, find your people, find the most
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: accessible way to organize and activate and do something that
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: really matters in this moment, because this will pass. This
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: system will crumble. I am certain of it. I am
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: so certain of it. History tells us that it will.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Where do we want to be when that happens? What
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: do we want to say that we have done when
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: that happens? And how do we have a stake in
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: what comes next? Because as I said, this is not
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: just a moment of transition and fracture and crumble and chaos.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: It is. but it is also a builder's moment, right?
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: It is also a transformative time. So how do we
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: think about what comes next? What is the new bar
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: of a system that we want to demand? And how
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: do we hold the line on that until we go, right?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: And so that for me is really important that we
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: are together. We are not alone. We don't lose sight
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: of the future. You know, when you think of, and
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: we take a reconstructionist approach to this moment. Like I
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: am devastated. I am gutted. I am exhausted. but I
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: am so energized and I'm so ready for what's coming next.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And that's the energy I want us to all carry
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: together as we do this. And so when I think
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: about like, what are we doing at WDN? Like, honestly,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: like we continue doing what we do. We don't stop.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: We go bigger and we go harder. And that, as
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: I said, is continuing to not just move resources to movements,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: but actually doing what we can to help scale those resources.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: It's challenging right now because of the way the funder
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: retrenchment has had an impact on the field means you're right.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: You said it earlier at the top, the dollars have
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: spread so much more thin. And so we need to
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: get bigger. And so I want to invite folks to
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: join WDN. to join Solidaire, to find a philanthropic home
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: so where your small dollars can be combined and become
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: big dollars, that resource movement. That's what we do at WTN.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: That's what Solidaire is doing. So find a space for that.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: We're going to continue to organize the sector because we
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: can't go at it alone. There's no one organization that's
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: going to take this moment on. It's going to be
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: all of us. And so how we mobilize our voices
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: and our influence in this moment, how we think about
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: shaping policy And in this particular moment, and then pushing
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: our peers to continue to center movements and move with
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: greater courage. So don't be afraid. Be a part of
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: something that comes next. Go bigger, not smaller. That's what
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I would say.