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Tigers Offseason Conundrum · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:11
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Karen
0:15
Speaker 1: Steckley with me as always as a man who will
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Speaker 1: not confirm nor deny whether he ever worked at McDonald's.
0:22
Speaker 1: He is Cody, and how you doing.
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Speaker 2: I'm good, Kiaren. Look all I'll say is I think
0:27
Speaker 2: I'm regarded as one of the best seasonal employees in
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Speaker 2: toys RS history.
0:31
Speaker 1: Right. I did enjoy my time at Chick fil A
0:35
Speaker 1: back in the day, so I don't have any pictures
0:37
Speaker 1: or pace ups from it, but I promise you I did.
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Speaker 1: Co worker Zach Wilchuck, he does the afternoon radio show
0:43
Speaker 1: here in Dallas. He can confirm, he can confirm we
0:46
Speaker 1: work together better.
0:47
Speaker 2: Than my God, it'd be hard if I had to
0:48
Speaker 2: actually like go prove that I were.
0:50
Speaker 1: You know.
0:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have pictures or pay stops. Good friend
0:54
Speaker 2: Shane Wilson worked there with me, so someone would have
0:56
Speaker 2: to track him down.
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Speaker 1: All right, Shane, if you're listening, uh yeah, hit hit
1:02
Speaker 1: us up at at Cody Stadium and I'm at Kirano
1:05
Speaker 1: of course, dec leave pop page is at Tiger territory underscore.
1:09
Speaker 1: All right, another another honestly great weekend for baseball. Yeah,
1:15
Speaker 1: unless you're a Yankees fan, but yeah, yeah, I starily
1:18
Speaker 1: care about their emotions. Two awesome games. We don't We're
1:22
Speaker 1: not gonna break them down, obviously, but there was a
1:24
Speaker 1: Jack Flaherty element, there was a flair for the dramatic.
1:26
Speaker 1: There was a Kirk Gibson callback moment, Cody Any uh any,
1:33
Speaker 1: just kind of topical thoughts about the World Series. It
1:35
Speaker 1: seems like this was an another w for Major League Baseball.
1:38
Speaker 1: We talked about that last week. I think it kind
1:40
Speaker 1: of continues, or earlier this week, I should say, I
1:42
Speaker 1: think that kind of continues going into uh, Game three
1:45
Speaker 1: of the World Series.
1:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been two awesome games to watch. Never really
1:51
Speaker 2: been a you know, before I was a journalist, I
1:53
Speaker 2: was never a Yankees fan, But here I am like, well,
1:55
Speaker 2: I kind of hope the Yankees win at least one,
1:57
Speaker 2: just to keep this thing going, because it has the
2:00
Speaker 2: potential to be such a good series if this can
2:02
Speaker 2: go six or seven games. You know. We talked a
2:05
Speaker 2: little bit about Jack Flaherty last week and his health
2:08
Speaker 2: and like how good it is that he stayed healthy.
2:10
Speaker 2: But it was as I started digging a little deeper
2:12
Speaker 2: into the numbers and what's been going on because I'm
2:16
Speaker 2: helping out with our live blog coverage on the Athletic
2:18
Speaker 2: it was like, uh, you know, Flerty's velocity had started
2:22
Speaker 2: to dip a little bit. He wasn't as good in September. Like,
2:26
Speaker 2: are the innings just mounting up? He hasn't thrown this
2:28
Speaker 2: much since twenty seventeen. Could there be some kind of
2:31
Speaker 2: lingering health concerns? You know? I think even mentioned like
2:35
Speaker 2: Buster only reported he had a little bit of hamstring
2:39
Speaker 2: tightness at the end of his last start. So I
2:41
Speaker 2: was really curious to see how he was going to
2:43
Speaker 2: throw in the World Series. And we got to Jack
2:45
Speaker 2: that looked a lot like the flarity who was thrown
2:48
Speaker 2: for the Tigers. That velocity was back up above that
2:51
Speaker 2: ninety three mile per hour threshold, which has kind of
2:53
Speaker 2: been his sweet spot. The slider was just really, really good.
2:57
Speaker 2: That's a pitch he developed largely with the help of
2:59
Speaker 2: the Tigers. Hasn't really gotten talked a lot about on
3:03
Speaker 2: the national broadcast. Is like all the things the Tigers
3:05
Speaker 2: did to help propel Jack to this stage.
3:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even you know, like if you just look at,
3:13
Speaker 1: you know, the box score without watching the game, if
3:15
Speaker 1: you would just look at the box score and be like, yeah,
3:17
Speaker 1: that kind of feels like a like a flaarty outing
3:19
Speaker 1: that we understood, and that standing home run can't really
3:23
Speaker 1: kill him for that, you know what I mean? It
3:25
Speaker 1: is down and in knuckle curve like it. Stanton went
3:28
Speaker 1: and got it, so you know, tip a cap, that's
3:31
Speaker 1: all right. Uh and and so yeah it was pretty fun. Uh,
3:35
Speaker 1: fair foul real quick. You know we're on ballot territory.
3:37
Speaker 1: There is a show called fair Territory with your colleague
3:40
Speaker 1: Ken Rosenthal. So fair foul on this one. I was
3:44
Speaker 1: at a Halloween party last night. It was suppose you're
3:47
Speaker 1: supposed to dress up as like a you know, a
3:49
Speaker 1: celebrity lookalike. A guy showed up in like a batting
3:54
Speaker 1: practice pullover, like a spring training type hat, baseball pants
4:00
Speaker 1: and sort of like the like the clubhouse shoes, like
4:04
Speaker 1: the turf shoes or whatever. For the Yankees. It was
4:06
Speaker 1: all Yankees. Fair foul on that for a Halloween costume.
4:11
Speaker 2: What do you think what player was he trying to
4:13
Speaker 2: look like? He's just trying to look like a New
4:15
Speaker 2: York Yankee.
4:17
Speaker 1: I think it was a New York Yankee.
4:19
Speaker 2: Uh well, that's celebrity. So I'm going foul here.
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Speaker 1: Like he was tall, but he wasn't trying to It
4:25
Speaker 1: didn't seem like he was trying to do the judge thing.
4:28
Speaker 1: But he but but like I think it was just
4:30
Speaker 1: a player, like almost like a extra in uh in
4:35
Speaker 1: a baseball movie type deal, you know, just like a
4:37
Speaker 1: guy in the clubhouse type deal.
4:39
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I think that's like a fine costume.
4:42
Speaker 2: But if you're wearing that to a celebrity lookalike party,
4:44
Speaker 2: I think you you come out with an f because
4:46
Speaker 2: you didn't dress up as a celebrity. You dress up
4:48
Speaker 2: as a generic member of the New York Yankees. That's
4:51
Speaker 2: uh yeah, you didn't look like anyone.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like a yeah, like an extra and
4:55
Speaker 1: probably the Yankees or something, you know, or major league
4:58
Speaker 1: in that scene or whatever. So I'm was curious your
5:00
Speaker 1: boy went as Vinnie from Jersey Shore and the wife
5:04
Speaker 1: went at circa like twenty thirteen Miley Cyrus so big
5:09
Speaker 1: hits at the party.
5:11
Speaker 2: So our listeners probably don't care about this, But I'm
5:14
Speaker 2: dealing with a little bit of a conundrum this week,
5:16
Speaker 2: and that like met a weird age where a lot
5:19
Speaker 2: of people, you know, either like have kids and Halloween's
5:22
Speaker 2: all about the kids, or they're like, you know, kind
5:25
Speaker 2: of out of just the straight up partying phase. So
5:28
Speaker 2: I don't really have anything to do this Halloween, and
5:30
Speaker 2: I'm like, I mean, I don't have any kids. I
5:32
Speaker 2: wouldn't mind going to a little party or something, but
5:35
Speaker 2: there's not much going on. So I'm hoping, you know,
5:37
Speaker 2: something comes up in the next few days so I
5:39
Speaker 2: can enjoy Halloween a little bit.
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Speaker 1: This last thing I'll say about it. Last night was
5:44
Speaker 1: the perfect mixture of like people like me who and
5:47
Speaker 1: my wife obviously don't do not have kids, and then
5:49
Speaker 1: sort of like the young retirees who are like who
5:54
Speaker 1: are like living life up because they got no everybody's
5:57
Speaker 1: out of these.
5:58
Speaker 2: Of the ones who are really bringing the.
6:00
Speaker 1: The they were they were going they were going ham
6:03
Speaker 1: let me tell you, they were going ham all right.
6:05
Speaker 1: Back to back to back to baseball real quick. Another
6:09
Speaker 1: topical event, literally just a couple of hours ago. Actually,
6:15
Speaker 1: we talked about George Lombard and his you know, candidacy
6:20
Speaker 1: for the Chicago White Sox. And actually I'll just kind
6:25
Speaker 1: of give a little bit insay baseball here. Cody. We
6:27
Speaker 1: were texting about the you know, the topics, and I
6:30
Speaker 1: was like, all right, anything kind of you know, you
6:32
Speaker 1: gotta get off your chest, anything you really want to
6:34
Speaker 1: talk about before, like you know, it might be too
6:36
Speaker 1: late or whatever. And he said, well, let's talk about
6:38
Speaker 1: like the pros and cons of George Lombard potentially like
6:41
Speaker 1: being the White Sox manager. And I was like, all right, cool,
6:45
Speaker 1: and then you just kind of sent lol. John Hayman's
6:48
Speaker 1: h tweet about how he is out. He didn't say
6:54
Speaker 1: not like it was. It was weird how he phrased it,
6:56
Speaker 1: and phrasing is kind of key on these. He didn't
6:58
Speaker 1: say with room name from consideration. And he also didn't
7:01
Speaker 1: say like the White Sox have narrowed focus. He just
7:04
Speaker 1: kind of said, like Lombard out, looks like they're gonna
7:07
Speaker 1: look at Phil Nevin Grady, Size Moore and Will Venerable
7:11
Speaker 1: Venable excuse me, So as of now, we'll consider the
7:15
Speaker 1: White Sox out of the realm. Still loosely kind of
7:18
Speaker 1: connected to the to Miami, but I we haven't talked
7:23
Speaker 1: about this in a while, and we we when we
7:27
Speaker 1: talk about assistant coaches. We mentioned Fetter and and for
7:31
Speaker 1: a good reason. But Lombard's a guy that is universally
7:35
Speaker 1: respected but not talked about as much. Long time listeners
7:38
Speaker 1: will know why that is is because AJ does not
7:41
Speaker 1: make assistance available to the media, and I think that
7:44
Speaker 1: kind of plays into it just not being in our
7:46
Speaker 1: frontal lobe to talk about. But but you see it
7:50
Speaker 1: day to day. You talk to players who give him
7:54
Speaker 1: credit for you know, development or defense or whatever. So
7:58
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, it's kind of like rehashed a
8:01
Speaker 1: little bit. It's the offseason, like why is he so important,
8:04
Speaker 1: you know, to this Tigers operation? You know?
8:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think outside the pitching coaches, Lombard
8:10
Speaker 2: is definitely the assistant you hear the most about from
8:14
Speaker 2: the players. I mean, just look at some of the
8:18
Speaker 2: guys the Tigers have had in the outfield winsl Peariz,
8:22
Speaker 2: Carrie Carpenter, a Kiel but do now justin Henry Molloy
8:27
Speaker 2: but obviously Riley Valaid, but guys who were not good defenders,
8:31
Speaker 2: who reviews like their defense is going to be a problem.
8:35
Speaker 2: A lot of those guys, Kerry Carpenter especially Winsl held
8:38
Speaker 2: his own. Even Ni Keel I think has gotten a
8:41
Speaker 2: little bit better than he was at one point in time.
8:44
Speaker 2: They all attributed to their their work with George Lombard.
8:47
Speaker 2: I mean, I think he's a really good outfield coach,
8:49
Speaker 2: generally runs their outfield positioning. If you look into the
8:52
Speaker 2: super advanced metrics, you will see the Tigers over the
8:55
Speaker 2: last couple of years rink toward the top, if not
8:58
Speaker 2: the top on the person of fly balls converted to
9:02
Speaker 2: out in the outfield. That's someonet attribute to the players,
9:05
Speaker 2: but it has a lot to do with positioning. Lombard's
9:08
Speaker 2: kind of the guy running that. So you know, I
9:10
Speaker 2: can't pretend to know him super well given AJ's policies,
9:14
Speaker 2: but have talked to him, you know, just kind of
9:16
Speaker 2: small talk a couple times and whatnot. Obviously strikes you
9:19
Speaker 2: as super sharp, very energetic. You know. I think the
9:24
Speaker 2: players really like and respond to Lombard. I think he
9:27
Speaker 2: has a lot of characteristics of a good teacher. It
9:31
Speaker 2: does make that a little interesting, like how would those
9:35
Speaker 2: traits translate to the manager's chair. It's a very different job,
9:39
Speaker 2: and that's obviously something we can't quite know until he
9:42
Speaker 2: eventually gets one of these gigs, which I think he
9:45
Speaker 2: will and probably for the best that maybe it's not
9:48
Speaker 2: going to be the Chicago White Sox.
9:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's like the easy thing to think about,
9:56
Speaker 1: is that, Like is that especially to be honest, like,
9:59
Speaker 1: especially with a potential ownership change, you know that could
10:04
Speaker 1: go on there, Like that's always it's tough to be
10:07
Speaker 1: in the front office or in the dugout whenever, like
10:10
Speaker 1: ownership could change hands. You just never know like what
10:13
Speaker 1: directive or policies or mos right that you know that
10:17
Speaker 1: they will have. But you know what's curious about him
10:19
Speaker 1: being connected to these two and it didn't get that
10:22
Speaker 1: much pub at the end of season news conference, partially
10:26
Speaker 1: because everybody's like looking forward so much? Is that like
10:29
Speaker 1: Aja seemed like, yeah, pretty confident or excuse me, be
10:32
Speaker 1: confident that there wouldn't be any departures in the coaching staff.
10:38
Speaker 1: Obviously in his short time, he's already you know, lost
10:41
Speaker 1: a member of his hitting staff to the aforementioned New
10:44
Speaker 1: York Yankees. Uh So that part was kind of cure,
10:48
Speaker 1: did it? That kind of raise an eyebrow for you?
10:50
Speaker 1: The fact that you just assume that Lombard is gonna
10:53
Speaker 1: be at least a name thrown out there for any
10:58
Speaker 1: managerial job that is viewed as a growth opportunity. I
11:01
Speaker 1: don't know if he would like take over like the Dodgers,
11:04
Speaker 1: if Roberts like was no longer there, they might want
11:06
Speaker 1: to look for someone established, But you know what I mean,
11:08
Speaker 1: like a growth opportunity job, He's going to be a
11:11
Speaker 1: name thrown out there for all of them. And it
11:14
Speaker 1: was a little curious to me that Aj was like, yeah,
11:16
Speaker 1: I expect you know, everybody back, whereas he could have
11:19
Speaker 1: easily just been like, well, you know, I'd like to
11:21
Speaker 1: have everybody back, but you know, some of these opportunities
11:24
Speaker 1: present themselves. You just kind of never know. That's the business,
11:26
Speaker 1: you know what I mean Like.
11:28
Speaker 2: And I would think that still probably stands well for George,
11:31
Speaker 2: maybe even other coaches. Teams are still going to be hiring,
11:34
Speaker 2: you know, for the next couple of weeks, and especially
11:36
Speaker 2: the couple weeks after the World Series, so always something
11:40
Speaker 2: to keep an eye on. I was a little surprised,
11:42
Speaker 2: just because it's rare that a full coaching staff returns.
11:46
Speaker 2: You know, maybe someone has just decided they want to
11:48
Speaker 2: work closer to family or they want to get out
11:51
Speaker 2: of the biz because it's so hard, or you know,
11:54
Speaker 2: maybe some guy kind of lower on the coaching totem
11:58
Speaker 2: pole just isn't the right fit, even if they did
12:00
Speaker 2: a good job, like things like that. So I think
12:02
Speaker 2: that's a sign of the strength of this Tiger's coaching staff.
12:05
Speaker 2: You know. I guess AJ could have qualified it with
12:08
Speaker 2: like and you know, we'll see what happens with George.
12:10
Speaker 2: But I think at that point it's like, well, we
12:13
Speaker 2: accept George back unless something else comes along. I think
12:16
Speaker 2: that kind of goes without saying.
12:18
Speaker 1: Now.
12:19
Speaker 2: I think it was pretty clear the only two real
12:22
Speaker 2: openings were going to be Chicago and Miami, and it
12:27
Speaker 2: does make you wonder, like, you know, we can't say
12:31
Speaker 2: for sure because we don't know, but like, would George
12:33
Speaker 2: Lombard have really wanted either of those jobs? And that's
12:36
Speaker 2: where it gets tough because they're only thirty when you're
12:39
Speaker 2: trying to get your first gig. You know, beggars can't
12:42
Speaker 2: exactly be choosers at the same time, you know, Chicago,
12:46
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a train wreck you have. I'm not
12:48
Speaker 2: sure working for Reinsdorf is great. Not sure ownership uncertainty
12:52
Speaker 2: is any better. Like that just seems like one of
12:55
Speaker 2: those gigs where you're bound to get thrown in there
12:58
Speaker 2: for two three years, get fired, and then who knows
13:00
Speaker 2: what happens. Miami may be a little different, not a
13:03
Speaker 2: great market, They're not gonna spend a lot of money.
13:05
Speaker 2: But Peter Bindix is running that front office now, Gabe
13:07
Speaker 2: Kapler's in that front office. Like I could see that
13:10
Speaker 2: down the line becoming a good situation. I don't know,
13:13
Speaker 2: if I'm George Lombard, I'm trying to get something kind
13:15
Speaker 2: of in between, which I don't know. You can't always
13:18
Speaker 2: get the perfect scenario. But think of the Astros team
13:21
Speaker 2: that AJ took over, you know, before the Reds hired
13:24
Speaker 2: Terry Francona, because if Tito's willing to come work for
13:26
Speaker 2: you, you hire them. But I was like, that could be
13:28
Speaker 2: a job where it's a young team but they're still
13:31
Speaker 2: on the rise. Like that, on paper seemed like a
13:34
Speaker 2: really good fit. Obviously though that the problem you run
13:38
Speaker 2: into with any opening is like people are gonna want
13:40
Speaker 2: somebody with managerial experience, So a tough position to be in.
13:45
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, if this offseason isn't the
13:48
Speaker 2: time It's good that George's name has continued to been
13:52
Speaker 2: in be in the rings. It kind of you didn't
13:54
Speaker 2: hear as much about it the past couple off seasons,
13:58
Speaker 2: as like his first off season with the Tigers, where
14:00
Speaker 2: he's really a hot commodity, not the Tigers are winning
14:03
Speaker 2: a little bit. Like if the Tigers continue to make
14:06
Speaker 2: the playoffs, that helps George Lombard probably as much as
14:09
Speaker 2: anyone out.
14:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, really, the first time we can
14:14
Speaker 1: say this is that now he's in a situation that
14:19
Speaker 1: you feel good about the possibility of raising your profile,
14:23
Speaker 1: whereas before you might have to like really nail an interview.
14:26
Speaker 1: Beca's like oh yeah, yeah, sell your you know, your
14:29
Speaker 1: fan base on hiring the bench coach from a team
14:32
Speaker 1: that lost eighty nine games last year or whatever, you
14:34
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, that's that's just that's just
14:37
Speaker 1: part of it. So I mean it, it would be
14:40
Speaker 1: a good thing if AJ has his staff poached, like
14:44
Speaker 1: for for all the reason, it's just it's just like
14:47
Speaker 1: anything else, right, and you know, like the Lions or
14:50
Speaker 1: we just saw the offense display they put on Sunday,
14:53
Speaker 1: like they've gotten I would say fortunate, but also create
14:56
Speaker 1: a situation that they didn't have, Like Ben Johnson didn't
14:58
Speaker 1: feel like he had to leave, So I'm sure he
15:00
Speaker 1: will eventually, but he never felt like he had to leave.
15:02
Speaker 1: And then also he was better compensated. I don't think
15:05
Speaker 1: necessarily that's something that's gonna happen with Lombard, but you
15:07
Speaker 1: but you have to feel good about ownership and situation
15:10
Speaker 1: and management and team in order to uh to feel
15:14
Speaker 1: like you're still kind of putting yourself in the best position.
15:16
Speaker 1: I do believe that he is still going to be
15:19
Speaker 1: in the best position possible to take one of those jobs.
15:21
Speaker 1: I like what you said about the Reds there that
15:23
Speaker 1: and they didn't really get a lot of publicity. It
15:25
Speaker 1: was kind of like, oh, that happened, and then we
15:28
Speaker 1: just kind of like moved on, you know, but they're
15:31
Speaker 1: pretty freaking cool that.
15:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was kind of wide because it happened. You're like,
15:35
Speaker 2: you know, right in the final days of the regular
15:37
Speaker 2: season and you're amping up for the playoffs, and then
15:39
Speaker 2: it was kind of just like lost in the news cycle.
15:41
Speaker 2: That's going to be like one of these stories of
15:43
Speaker 2: spring training, like Terry Frankcone is back leading what could
15:46
Speaker 2: end up being a pretty good Reds team.
15:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, one of the more fun teams to follow
15:51
Speaker 1: if you're if you're not kind of into it day
15:53
Speaker 1: to day and living in dying by every loss. Uh So, yeah,
15:57
Speaker 1: So let's let's kind of move on to like another
16:03
Speaker 1: kind of way of like assessing this roster. So like
16:08
Speaker 1: there's we've talked about like areas of upgrade and kind
16:13
Speaker 1: of like player names and possibilities and what would you
16:18
Speaker 1: like and the fact that how of your bias is
16:20
Speaker 1: going to be on the team still and all that.
16:23
Speaker 1: But I don't know if we talked enough about the
16:29
Speaker 1: kind of potential friction a little bit of like you know,
16:37
Speaker 1: ideologies bumping up against each other a little bit, doesn't
16:40
Speaker 1: have to but right now everything's in theory, so like
16:43
Speaker 1: it is kind of something there are waters to be navigated.
16:47
Speaker 1: So what am I mean of that? What I mean
16:49
Speaker 1: is that I look at the Tigers roster from last season,
16:54
Speaker 1: and I see clear areas that you would like to upgrade,
17:00
Speaker 1: and in an ideal situation, you would get better. But
17:05
Speaker 1: the Tiger's philosophy, now what does that usually mean? That
17:07
Speaker 1: usually means trades and free agents, right, that's the traditional
17:09
Speaker 1: way ab upgrading the Tiger's way of quote getting better.
17:14
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm sure Scott Harris has said this sentence
17:17
Speaker 1: in so many different ways because that's again one of
17:21
Speaker 1: the philosophies he's trying to run here, is that, yes,
17:25
Speaker 1: he'll say we need the upgraded first base. We need
17:28
Speaker 1: upgraded performance at first base is something that he would say.
17:31
Speaker 1: And then the second part of that was like, we
17:34
Speaker 1: need like Specer Tortlsen to provide that slash, you know,
17:38
Speaker 1: maybe supplemented with somebody, Like he's not talking about signing
17:42
Speaker 1: like the Freddie Freeman of free agency this year. You
17:45
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, Like like he's like, we need
17:48
Speaker 1: to get better play out of shortstop, but he's not
17:52
Speaker 1: talking about acquiring the trade turner of the year, you
17:55
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So you're kind of banking on
18:00
Speaker 1: upgrades happening from within, and that can be a very unsatisfactory,
18:08
Speaker 1: satisfactory thing from the outside. So, uh so does that
18:12
Speaker 1: make sense? Cody? Where it's like you you got to
18:15
Speaker 1: you obviously can't rest on your laurels here. You're a
18:17
Speaker 1: wildcard team and you had to do bullpen dayes three
18:22
Speaker 1: out of five, uh you know, games, But at the
18:26
Speaker 1: same but you have to also kind of still you
18:30
Speaker 1: can't change completely who you are just because you have
18:32
Speaker 1: a smidge of postseason success, and that has to continue
18:36
Speaker 1: to be the development of young players. The thing about development, though,
18:41
Speaker 1: is that it's not linear and it is far from guarantee.
18:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a little bit of
18:49
Speaker 2: a fallacy in this idea of like building a homegrown team,
18:53
Speaker 2: which is like, you can never block anybody. If you
18:56
Speaker 2: bring in from the outside, you're altering your whole philosophy,
18:59
Speaker 2: And I think that's us not true. We also hear like, oh,
19:02
Speaker 2: we'll supplement the core when the time is right, Like
19:05
Speaker 2: you add a veteran player to a young, homegrown core,
19:08
Speaker 2: that to me seems like a tremendous recipe for success.
19:11
Speaker 2: If the Tigers add a third baseman, is that the
19:16
Speaker 2: end of the world, Like, I don't think it is.
19:18
Speaker 2: Maybe the only person who suffers there is Jace Young.
19:22
Speaker 2: But you know, if they signed a right handed third baseman,
19:25
Speaker 2: there could still be opportunities for Jase Young. Chase Young
19:27
Speaker 2: can play some second base, Like if they sign a
19:30
Speaker 2: first baseman, that would you know, who knows what that
19:34
Speaker 2: means for Spencer Turklesen, but Spencer Turglesen has had fourteen
19:37
Speaker 2: hundred played appearances in the BIGS. I just don't think
19:42
Speaker 2: like like you have to be willing to make some
19:45
Speaker 2: moves from the outside. And I said all last offseason, like,
19:48
Speaker 2: I get it. I get why the Tigers didn't do more.
19:51
Speaker 2: I get why they didn't go after Matt Chapman. And
19:53
Speaker 2: I also said, like if they have a productive year,
19:58
Speaker 2: like they don't necessarily get a p ASK this time around.
20:01
Speaker 2: You made the playoffs, you have young talent on the rise.
20:04
Speaker 2: Is important to continue adhering to that culture development, but
20:08
Speaker 2: that does not mean you cannot add at least one
20:12
Speaker 2: impact bat to this order.
20:16
Speaker 1: You're right, there's outside of getting creative, which you know
20:24
Speaker 1: Scott Harris is certainly capable of. Outside of getting creative,
20:27
Speaker 1: there's a to get to do the young player philosophy.
20:31
Speaker 1: There's a shorter amount of positions that would warrant that
20:37
Speaker 1: you can do, like shortstop would be there. But then again,
20:41
Speaker 1: like the higher bias thing is, it's still in your life.
20:45
Speaker 1: It's still in your life moving forward. Whenever that timeline comes,
20:49
Speaker 1: spring training, the game of the season, he's healthy, whatever,
20:52
Speaker 1: like Tray Sweeney will be remembered for this team for
20:56
Speaker 1: a long time. He is not above approach. Third base
20:59
Speaker 1: speaks itself. I mean even the uh and total sen
21:03
Speaker 1: we have talked about and we'll continue to talk about,
21:06
Speaker 1: even sort of like the utility stuff, you know, like
21:08
Speaker 1: how long how long do a Banya's and McKinstry have
21:13
Speaker 1: like roles on this team? Like I have nothing against
21:15
Speaker 1: the guys. They've They've each had their moments. However, like
21:20
Speaker 1: you can't like cling to them, if that makes sense
21:23
Speaker 1: in terms of like kind of filling out your organization.
21:27
Speaker 1: And and here's here's another way of illustrating it. So
21:30
Speaker 1: I'm on the Tigers Baseball reference page. It's got their
21:34
Speaker 1: twelve players by War. I was going an order real
21:37
Speaker 1: quick schoolball Green, Holton, Er Ling, Flaherty, Parker, Meadows, Carrie Carpenter,
21:45
Speaker 1: will Ves, Andya Banyez, brand Herder, Reesulsen, and col Keith.
21:51
Speaker 1: Cold Keith was one point one War Baseball Reference and
21:55
Speaker 1: he's the twelfth guy. So that's that's a situation that.
22:01
Speaker 2: You your cold splashes of water there like, oh no,
22:05
Speaker 2: this roster has some work to do. If Brandt Herder
22:07
Speaker 2: is on that list at all, there's a room to
22:09
Speaker 2: add more talent. I think in this organization.
22:14
Speaker 1: There's absolutely room. And you know, like I said earlier,
22:18
Speaker 1: the starting pitching is something that will take care of itself.
22:20
Speaker 1: Some of that as a joke thaying some of that is,
22:23
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure they'll acquire somebody else. But there's
22:27
Speaker 1: there's a lot of areas that when you kind of
22:30
Speaker 1: break it down as good as good as you feel
22:33
Speaker 1: about this past season, when you break it down a
22:36
Speaker 1: little bit, it's like, all right, now, now I remember
22:41
Speaker 1: the uneasiness of jew Like now now I kind of
22:44
Speaker 1: remember thinking like this run is awesome, but probably won't
22:48
Speaker 1: make the playoffs, you know what I mean, Like it
22:51
Speaker 1: kind of it kind of comes all back to you.
22:53
Speaker 1: And there's several areas of like I think it will
22:59
Speaker 1: work out. I hope it will work out, but I
23:01
Speaker 1: can't guarantee it'll work out. One of them, the guy
23:06
Speaker 1: that we didn't really talk about the past two months
23:09
Speaker 1: or whatever, because it was basically the Jake Rogers train
23:12
Speaker 1: behind the plate, was Dylan Dingler. Dylan Dingler bat at
23:17
Speaker 1: one sixty seven. He was a negative war player, you know,
23:20
Speaker 1: point three, but technically a negative war player. He had
23:24
Speaker 1: thirty strikeouts I believe, Yeah, thirty strikeouts to three walks.
23:28
Speaker 1: He was a guy that, for the most part, and
23:30
Speaker 1: this is not a criticism, this is major league baseball,
23:33
Speaker 1: he was a guy that was kind of in over
23:36
Speaker 1: his hat at the plate like that, Like that's I
23:39
Speaker 1: don't know another way to uh to put Now. He
23:42
Speaker 1: did have five doubles and two triples in a home run,
23:44
Speaker 1: so when he got a hold of the ball, he
23:46
Speaker 1: was capable of doing damage. Problem is, again, I'll say it,
23:49
Speaker 1: five doubles, two triples, and a home run. That's eight
23:53
Speaker 1: of his fourteen hits. So so like, you gotta have
23:57
Speaker 1: more value than that. And catcher is not a position
24:01
Speaker 1: that I'm sure they want to address in a Carson
24:04
Speaker 1: Kelly type situation. They want to have Dingler stick it
24:08
Speaker 1: out there and be their number two. But again that
24:12
Speaker 1: is not a guarantee. So do you have any sort
24:15
Speaker 1: of confidence level in Dingler or do you think like
24:21
Speaker 1: it would be smart to bring in a veteran catcher
24:24
Speaker 1: that can give him a real push on like a
24:26
Speaker 1: minor league deal in spring training? Like where is that
24:28
Speaker 1: kind of line?
24:28
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like both, Like I do think Dylan Dingler's a
24:32
Speaker 2: major league catcher. That doesn't necessarily mean he should just
24:37
Speaker 2: be handed that job. I think. I mean, the Tigers
24:39
Speaker 2: pretty much have to get a veteran type guy on
24:43
Speaker 2: a minor league deal. They didn't have, you know, that
24:46
Speaker 2: third catcher at all, so they were carrying Liam Hicks,
24:49
Speaker 2: who they traded for at the at the trade deadline,
24:52
Speaker 2: on the playoff roster or on the playoff taxi squad.
24:56
Speaker 2: He had not played above double a eerie in the
24:58
Speaker 2: Tiger's system. They've got to bring someone in, and I
25:01
Speaker 2: think it should be someone that could have a legit
25:04
Speaker 2: chance to make the roster if Dingler has a rough
25:07
Speaker 2: spring training. I think in an ideal world, Dingler is
25:10
Speaker 2: your kind of number two or maybe even eventually rises
25:13
Speaker 2: to the true tandem along with Jake Rogers. But you know,
25:18
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of a test, like, yeah, thing's
25:21
Speaker 2: going to need to play, he's going to need some
25:23
Speaker 2: time to develop. But you also can't just hand at
25:26
Speaker 2: bats for free when a team that is going to
25:29
Speaker 2: be playing for something this upcoming season. I imagine that
25:33
Speaker 2: Tigers probably would not want to carry three catchers on
25:36
Speaker 2: their forty man roster, But like I think it has
25:40
Speaker 2: to be a consideration. You could even argue, I don't know,
25:43
Speaker 2: would next year's team be better if the Tigers brought
25:45
Speaker 2: back Carson Kelly, Like I feel pretty good about it.
25:49
Speaker 2: As great as Jake is, Like he really struggled at
25:52
Speaker 2: the plate this season, it'd be nice to have a
25:54
Speaker 2: catcher that you could hope, could you know, you don't
25:59
Speaker 2: want your second catcher to be an offensive downgrade from
26:02
Speaker 2: Jake Rogers. I don't think that's ideal. I think ultimately
26:05
Speaker 2: Dingler is going to be a pretty similar player to Jake,
26:07
Speaker 2: with a little bit more upside in the bat, but
26:11
Speaker 2: it's gonna take him some time to get there. So
26:13
Speaker 2: super curious to see, you know, if that means he's
26:16
Speaker 2: the guy early in the season and if he struggles,
26:19
Speaker 2: then what there definitely has to be another realistic third option,
26:23
Speaker 2: you know, at least on a minor league deal.
26:26
Speaker 1: Speaking of Jake Rogers, we haven't addressed this in a while.
26:31
Speaker 1: We got a question about it on X so it
26:34
Speaker 1: was just kind of put it out here right now.
26:36
Speaker 1: The like it kind of gets thrown out there is
26:39
Speaker 1: like could he be one of those like sleeper extension candidates.
26:43
Speaker 1: I'll just say my opinion, real quick, Cody, then you
26:45
Speaker 1: can kind of give your more finely educated opinion.
26:50
Speaker 2: To me.
26:51
Speaker 1: It's a it's a situation that isn't does this seem
26:55
Speaker 1: too harsh like unnecessary? Like you don't have to do it.
26:58
Speaker 1: He's under team can control. Still, he's twenty nine years old. Uh,
27:03
Speaker 1: he is looking.
27:05
Speaker 2: Up right now.
27:05
Speaker 1: He's not gonna be eligible for free agency un till
27:07
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven. Uh, there's there's not like a need
27:11
Speaker 1: to do it in my opinion, and like there's he
27:16
Speaker 1: is not somebody that, like, as great as he was
27:20
Speaker 1: behind the plate, his war last year was one point zero. Yeah,
27:24
Speaker 1: so like so like you, it's he he is not
27:27
Speaker 1: somebody that like is I'm again, I like Jake Rogers.
27:33
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to seem too harsh here, but he's
27:35
Speaker 1: not somebody that, like you bank on being a franchise pillar. No.
27:38
Speaker 2: I mean, like, like let's just be real. Obviously I
27:41
Speaker 2: love Jake, but if you're asking me, should the Tigers
27:43
Speaker 2: extend him, it's a hard no. Pretty sure if you
27:47
Speaker 2: add to ask that to Jake, you'd be like, yeah,
27:48
Speaker 2: that's probably not like I think that's gonna happen. Uh.
27:51
Speaker 2: The real sic the reality of the situation is he's
27:54
Speaker 2: under team control at a pretty cheap rate. There's no
27:57
Speaker 2: incentive for the Tigers to mess with that. And if
28:00
Speaker 2: you want to start talking four or five years down
28:02
Speaker 2: the line, like I mean, you like what Jake Rodgers
28:05
Speaker 2: is doing, but there's a world where maybe Dingler becomes
28:08
Speaker 2: the guy who is has a higher upside, and then
28:11
Speaker 2: you have Tyrone Lorenzo and maybe he can stick at catcher,
28:14
Speaker 2: and then you don't want, like you, you don't need
28:18
Speaker 2: Jake Rodgers. If all goes according to plan, this thing
28:21
Speaker 2: might time out kind of well, where just as Jake's
28:24
Speaker 2: eligible for free agency, you have some other young, homegrown
28:27
Speaker 2: catchers who perhaps could be even better. That's obviously like
28:31
Speaker 2: the best case scenario version of event. But that's I mean,
28:36
Speaker 2: I think pretty cut and dry why you would not
28:39
Speaker 2: mess with extending Jake and most catchers in general. Right,
28:43
Speaker 2: it's a hard taxing position. Most catchers don't hit that
28:47
Speaker 2: well unless you have a Salvador Perez or a JT.
28:50
Speaker 2: Real Mudo like I catcher. Catcher can be kind of
28:54
Speaker 2: a volatile position, and you know, there's just no need
28:59
Speaker 2: for teams to extend guys like Jake.
29:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree, all right, Cody, some fun little conversations.
29:08
Speaker 1: I feel like that was a good foundation. We can
29:10
Speaker 1: kind of build on it, and then once we kind
29:12
Speaker 1: of get some more indications or even some other news,
29:15
Speaker 1: we can kind of kind of better shape what we
29:17
Speaker 1: think the Tigers are going to do. As I've said before,
29:20
Speaker 1: it's it's going to be an increasingly short offseason as
29:24
Speaker 1: we are here on the verge of November. Anything else
29:27
Speaker 1: you wanted to get into avoid jet out here?
29:29
Speaker 2: No, not really, But I mean, while we were on
29:31
Speaker 2: that topic, like the Tigers forty man crunch, only a
29:34
Speaker 2: couple weeks away from that being a thing. Who's going
29:36
Speaker 2: to get tender to contract. It's kind of interesting because
29:39
Speaker 2: I think there will definitely be you know, obviously some departures,
29:42
Speaker 2: some guys they have to protect on the forty man.
29:45
Speaker 2: You just kind of look at things, it's like, well,
29:46
Speaker 2: they're not really this is a sign of the team's growth.
29:48
Speaker 2: They're not really losing anyone like notable. Like I'd say,
29:52
Speaker 2: a Quel Bidou is the one name that stands out
29:54
Speaker 2: that fans know well that has been a likable player
29:57
Speaker 2: that's had tastes of success, who has probably reached the
30:01
Speaker 2: end of his rope with the Tigers, and there's some
30:03
Speaker 2: other guys who may not be back either. But you know,
30:07
Speaker 2: as we look a little bit closer, it's going to
30:09
Speaker 2: be interesting to see two names you mentioned, like Andy Banya,
30:12
Speaker 2: Zach McKinstry, guys who have had a roll and filled it.
30:15
Speaker 2: Do the Tigers still see a role for them? Are
30:18
Speaker 2: they guys you bring to spring training and see what happens,
30:21
Speaker 2: or if you're trying to clear some forty man spots
30:24
Speaker 2: if you're really hoping to make an impact signing or two,
30:28
Speaker 2: could a player like that get pushed out? I think
30:30
Speaker 2: those are some things to chew on here for the
30:31
Speaker 2: next couple weeks.
30:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's very possible when you have an
30:36
Speaker 1: emotionally satisfying run like the Tigers just had, it's very
30:39
Speaker 1: possible that there could be a guy that you have
30:41
Speaker 1: some sort of like emotional attachment or association too, you know,
30:45
Speaker 1: could not be on the team next year because you
30:48
Speaker 1: know they're good enough to do what they did, they
30:51
Speaker 1: weren't good enough to just kind of run it back completely. So,
30:54
Speaker 1: by the way, good position to be in. Uh. I
30:57
Speaker 1: want to thank everybody for listening. Following and subscribing. This
31:02
Speaker 1: is Tiger Territory formally turning the Corner podcasts Detroit Tiger's
31:06
Speaker 1: Talk twice a week during the offseason and three times
31:09
Speaker 1: a week during the regular season. You can follow Cody
31:12
Speaker 1: on x form me know on Twitter at Cody stave
31:14
Speaker 1: in Haagen. I am at Kieran on to Score Steckley
31:16
Speaker 1: pot page at Tiger Territory Underscore. We're also on YouTube.
31:20
Speaker 1: We're also on the social media's got link trees and
31:23
Speaker 1: stuff on all of that, so you can find us
31:25
Speaker 1: wherever you please. We are there, we are everywhere. We
31:29
Speaker 1: are here, and we are having fun. So for Cody Stavenhagen,
31:33
Speaker 1: I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have a great day.