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The Truth About Balance: Why You Don’t Need to Do It All to Have It All · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willis, and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience, and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women, redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, their boundaries and balance, the challenges they faced, and how to overcome them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Find their own versions of success.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: No way! Money, struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: We cover it all.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk, sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Search their website at investinginwomen.co.uk and find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Work It Like a Mun podcast.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Today I am chatting with Penny Moses, who is the founder of Home Life and You Live, which is a movement and event that helps people to navigate the juggle of modern life, reconnect with what really matters, and create homes and habits that truly support their well-being.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Through the show and Penny's work as a certified time hacker coach, Penny helps people find balance, make time and space for the things that bring them joy.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: As a mum entrepreneur and community builder, Penny is passionate about showing that it's possible to juggle work, family, and life without losing yourself in the process and that how we live, organise ourselves, and design our homes can change everything.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know that Home Life and You is huge.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel a real honour to have you here today.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if people listen to this and they've not heard of Home Life and You, um, I don't want to give them a bit of an overview.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So Home Life and You is a community, and Home Life and You Live is our um event which takes place at Excel London in October.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it took place just over two weeks ago.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we're gonna be back there again um on the 17th and 18th of October 2026.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have conversations about anything and everything to do with the mental load, the juggle, home, life, work, career, kids, whatever it might be, everything else in between, and how we can navigate it all and make sure that things like losing our keys because they're not in a place by the door doesn't trip us up so that we're then late for the train, right?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Through to having conversations with the people that we live with, uh, how to clean your toilet, how to fold your knickers, you know, everything from kind of looking after your home, maintaining your home, making it work for you, um, but really, really setting up your your home and life for the things that that you want, um, and really discovering that as well, which can often for us, I think, be really challenging.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've done a few activations recently um that we've called kind of air your dreams.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea is that you write what you need, want, and dream of, and the amount of people that find that be included so challenging.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, how can can you align your your home life, your career, and everything that you do if you don't know what you want?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, this is all about having the the fun in having the conversations and exploring that that too, because life evolves, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what we want at any given time can can change.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and I think that is the trick, isn't it?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is what do you what do people want?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I because I do a lot of career coaching and with people that are maybe not happy with what they're doing at the moment, but they can't articulate what they want to do next.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think what we often find, so let me give you decluttering as an example.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um we work with an amazing Marie Condo, um, and uh she spoke names a few years, yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's huge, absolutely fabulous, and what a lot of people so if you if you're not familiar with Marie Kondo, she had a Netflix uh program and talks very much about decluttering, organizing, and um she's got a very famous folding with gratitude um concept and the idea that you keep things in your home that spark joy, but actually that concept goes beyond your things, and it can be anything from even what goes into your diary, like the people you surround yourself with, and just really tuning in to this idea of you know, again, what do you want out of life?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so from a decluttering perspective, we can often think, you know, is it just about the stuff?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, it's the emotions, it's the decision-making process, it's everything that comes behind that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, even with work, you know, often we can be distracted or fixed, fixated by a thing that we think it just isn't working for us or isn't serving us, but we'd be truly being honest about what's going on kind of underneath the surface.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about getting under the hood a lot, you know, really understanding the thoughts and feelings behind that to be able to navigate it and then find the next thing that you want rather than you just taking, you know, the the thing that's really bothering you into the next role or you know, in the next phase of your life.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I like that idea that taking control and taking things out.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think as working mums, we all need to take more out, you know.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard, isn't it?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel I feel very stretched a lot with my time?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody says to me, Oh, so as a time hacker coach and the founder of Home Life for you, is your home perfect?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got all the answers?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I haven't.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And actually that's the that's the reason that I started all of this, because I realised how challenging it was.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I launched um previously known as the Clean and Tidy Home Show, and I launched that um shortly after um having my two boys.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got two boys that are four and six, bundles of joy and energy.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was I went back to work with my first when I was four months, um, when he was four months, um, and we went into lockdown only two months after that.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really interesting because I had to And were you in events before?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: In events, yes.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So my career.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you're guessing your events prior to COVID would have been all been like, you know, in person.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, in person.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been working away, so I barely kind of left my emails in the four months that maternity leave that I did have and and absolutely wanted to get back.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this kind of mum guilt and questioning um so many things about uh about motherhood didn't really creep in for me.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly there was the the whole idea of well, my kid won't have screen time or won't have a dummy.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: All of the things, you know, the lies I had.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but with work, I never questioned it because well, I want my career and I've been told I can have it all.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So of course I will go back.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um actually the role that um I had for the couple of months where we were in the office, um, between the age of my son being four and six months, um the full-time nursery worked okay because I could literally leg it for the train and you know, one way and then on the way back again, and it just about worked with the with the times that we had with me commuting at that point five days in the office.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually lost a team member just before COVID because there was an absolute no to any working from home and even just asking for one day a week.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then now they're fully fully virtual, they don't even have a permanent office anymore.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's amazing the shift that COVID had.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um it was at that point I kind of ate lunch in London.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I think, you know, scheming.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so all of that, so it kind of felt manageable enough.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as I say, this mum guilt hadn't crept in.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was when we went into lockdown, and I'm sure so many people can relate to this, that the the way that I use my home changed very much.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where my son was really starting to use different things, and we needed different things as he was growing, and it was this idea of okay, so do I hold on to the small baby seat now or the baby bath?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's other things coming, and where does that go?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, how do I manage all of this?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: The stuff that was kind of coming in theory in and out, you know, plenty of it just got hidden in the loft, which again I'm sure.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're all big, aren't they?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's big, bulky stuff with a baby, yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I'd never made so many meals at home, and the dining room is for two and a playroom, and at the time we had two dogs, and um probably an office then and yeah, and I was like, I have all of this talk it in my professional life, and I prioritise my professional life over everything else up until that point, and now it was like actually I'm quite mindful of the space that I'm creating for my child.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've got no idea how to keep up with the laundry, with the washing, even what I was using, you know.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Then I start seeing things or be careful what cleaning products are you're using with your kid and your pet and all of this.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like suddenly all of this kind of noise kind of came in, and I just didn't know how to navigate it.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I thought, right, there must be some other people that that feel like this, and that's kind of really where the idea um came from.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then that role I was in was a fixed-term contract.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, had my second child um as that literally managed to to fit it in, then plan over here.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, had him, and he was born um early January, and I'd founded the business by the end of the month, and that was just my total passion project.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, third child, if you like.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know what you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: My business has definitely been my third child, and that's why I've never had a third child.
• 10:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, I can't basically have four kids then.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think what's been so fascinating.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the reason I went on this entire ramble was just where people think, oh, you've got it all together.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: The challenges that have come with every different phase of um my life, you know, even expectations going from rented to um a house that we bought, even becoming a wife.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: I felt there were some expectations of what I should do in the home now and how that should be, and then of course how that impacts everything else, and having children, um, and just this idea, you know, I never questioned my career, but I was like, how does this work?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do we fit it in?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just so much more aware of the things that were tripping me up day to day in terms of my environment, my thought process, the way I organise myself, the people pleasing, the and societal expectations and everything else in between.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so really we exist now to try and navigate that.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm absolutely learning along the way.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And every year that we have done the events, this was our fourth edition that just took place, um, there's something else we're newing and we're we're discovering um or bringing in that's new.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like for the first time um this year, we have belief coding, like really understanding how to change your beliefs.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there's just amazing people out there, but I certainly had no idea how to find them.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if we can do nothing else but share some unspoken conversations, lift the shame off of all of this stuff and signpost to amazing people like yourself, um, you know, with with all of these solutions, then then that's what keeps me doing what I do.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So is it like an exhibition?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So because I um you know, you did invite me in, unfortunately I was on holiday, so I couldn't make it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so for people that are thinking, you know, is they I'm imagining correct me if I'm wrong, you've got a like, you know, if you go to a big exhibition, I'm gonna say Excel, you've got all the different brands showcasing all their different products in I forg I don't know what you call them, but you you probably know the technical terms.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Products and solutions, yeah, in their little pod sort of thing, or whatever you call them, their stands, that's the word, isn't it?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Stands.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have breakout rooms, then with like life-changing coaching.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So this year we had the inspiration stage.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, we had clean and tidy, which was all about optimising your space, the wardrobe, love what you wear.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that wasn't just about styling, it's about body confidence, looking like your clothes, buying and selling on vintage, um, you know, and and a lot again around kind of decision making and being your authentic self.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So again, getting under the hood.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then the fourth one that we had was Life HQ, which is live your potential.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so lots of different conversations, even around rest to move you forward, burnout, um, resilience, um, communication, um, navigating separate homes after divorce.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, literally, you name it, we what we really kind of celebrate is this interconnection between all of these things, because certainly where I am now, the decisions that I have to make in my life are subjective to so many different elements in a way that they weren't before I came a mum.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think you know, there's there's also conversations we have, and it's not just people that um have had children, it could be any other kind of life stage transition.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: We talk a lot about hormone cycle optimation, optimization and perimenopause, and you know, just looking at life's transitions, whatever they might be, tends to be where people need us most.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but actually it could be recognising that that really what you're doing isn't serving you, like you say, if people are at their point with their career that that that they think they want to do something else.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of how do you navigate that and how do you set yourself up for success in those new roles, considering how home life, well-being can impact the success that you have in your career as well.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it sounds brilliant.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um how I'm guessing how does the housing crisis fit into this?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I guess you have more control over, I mean, even if you rent, and I guess you rent a whole a whole house, um, you have more you know, more control, I guess, everything, right?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so many people, isn't there, that are you know, until a lot later in life than they would have been in house shares, flat shares.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we've actually had a lot of content um around um cohabiting, whatever that might look like.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, whether you're a student, whether you're in a house share, whether you're still looking at home, and this idea of creating your own space and area, whatever that might look like.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also really understanding that a lot of us live differently to other people in our household, again, no matter how that's made up.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of content um around neurodiversity, um, and you know, understanding if perhaps you're the clean and tidy one and somebody else isn't, how to navigate that and vice versa.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think what what the conversations that we have, I think you know, we we attract a lot of working um mums for sure.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I would say our kind of core audience, but we have lots and lots of different people with lots of different scenarios that can benefit um from the different topics.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but we've even had conversations around finances, wealth to buy or to rent.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because interestingly, um, we even uh modelled some scenarios of, you know, is buying always the right option?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, if you haven't run the numbers or understood the life that you want to live or where you want to live, then that might not be the best option for you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Good friend of mine um actually owns uh a home somewhere that she doesn't want to live.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the place that she wants to live, she at the moment the the finances don't work, so she rents in the place that she wants to live, and financially that works really well for her and serves the jobs that she has, the life that she wants.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, I think it's it's subjective, isn't it?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's about what's right right for you.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but ultimately if if owning a home home is your goal, then that's something that we we certainly cover in terms of content too.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds a huge like like it sounds ma, you know, it's massive what you do.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I guess uh you know, how big is that job really?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know, do you sp how long does it you know does it take you to plan it or that's a great question.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we are already, or we have been for a number of months, already planning ahead to next year's event.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So certainly more than a year.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't mean to say that I am working on the business every second of every day, although I probably would if my my body could sustain it because I and it gives me energy.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: But as I touched on, I've got two two young boys, yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there are lots of other things that that bring me joy as well.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's I've really been trying to balance that kind of organic growth, I think, and really making sure that we there are lots of topics to to cover and there's so much scope for us, but it's making sure for me, it's really important that we create this environment that feels really safe and nurturing and familiar and friendly, and that tends to be the feedback that we get that you know it feels a bit like a warm hug.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm known for my hugs, but the event itself feels like a warm hug.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually have 28% of our audience that come on their own.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, although it's a very friendly atmosphere that you can bring, friends, family, children, we have a great kid zone.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but actually, if you want to to come along and listen to the sessions and really have some you time to understand what it is that that you're looking for, then we create that space where that's a comfortable thing to do as well.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, quite unique, really, for a consumer event where often you would go typically with family and friends and together.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've been like ideal home show before.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, yeah, so it's really important for us to really create that community and we have a lot of touch points throughout the year.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um, if anything that I'm talking about is something that you're interested in, you know, Instagram is a great place to go or our website, um, but home life and you.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we have Instagram lives all year round, various other different bits of content, and again, signposting to amazing products and services that that can help.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as I say, in any given time, there will be different challenges that you'll have in your home, in your life, and your well-being, in your career, or otherwise.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the idea is this that we're this kind of big melting pot that you can kind of dip in as and when you need us.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Are you self-funded or did you get any outside investment?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Self-funded.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: How did you this is a very personal question, but how did you find the confidence to like bet on yourself, really?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Such a good question.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: In all honesty, I don't know.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my narrative that I've been working to change um over the last year or so is that this happened to me.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how I ended up.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like you feel so driven.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: It did not you made it happen.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, I think so.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: The I the idea or the the problem, if you like, was just keeping me awake at night.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a way to really challenge, I think, uh, or channel all of the challenges that I was going through, um, and just this need to want to find a solution.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have never wanted to run my own business, um, but just this idea that I just had to do something with.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I think as soon as I kind of started poking my head out of the kind of business plan and the idea, then had amazing brands that were like, oh my god, this is so something that we need, and we've been thinking about doing this, and we'd love to get on board.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then then it just kind of got got some traction and and then we've kind of run with it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it was quite an interesting time this year where we decided to evolve and expand and essentially change our name.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Clean and tidy is still very much of a part of the show.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as I touched on earlier, every single conversation we have, or person I meet, they're like, you should listen to this podcast, or you should meet this person, or what about this, and or actually we'll have a conversation.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is the barrier that I face.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right, great, let's talk about that.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be people that resonate.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just this thing that's just become um so important.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it does just get bigger and bigger because we are, we are complex and wonderful, unique humans, all with different, you know, that we need different things.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, described the the event a bit like a pick and mix, um, as well as this proof it's possible.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't have people on stage that say, do what I do to be like me.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's about this is what worked for me and this is what you might want to consider and you know, learn from the things that I've done, but go out and explore what's what's right for you.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really, really important.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I've I've been on a similar journey.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have benefited so much from the content myself, although often it's quite frustrating that I'm running here, there, and everywhere on site, and I was like, I want to listen to all the sorts of things.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not a big team, are you?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, so we have one full-time um show manager and then um various kind of freelancers um that um kind of dip in dip in and out.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, it's quite an undertaking.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I get asked often, um, you know, does it take you the whole year to do it?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, we're already recruiting brands, recruiting speakers, tickets were already on sale.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, really just trying to to curate something that really matters.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's why we don't just kind of throw something together that that might work, it's about really making a difference.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where So how have you been funded then?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: How did you start funding when you first started and you took that initial bet on yourself?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you fund it now?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the biggest thing with events is cash flow and making sure that you've got to pay the venue and your suppliers and the contractors.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think where I have been so fortunate is that where I've had a career in events of just got the most amazing suppliers that believed in me, that were um probably all of them actually in need of the concept itself, and thinking, well, that sounds like a great event that I was probably going to, which was great to get their buy-in.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so certainly things like flexible payment terms and and all that kind of stuff.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it was, yeah, it's about kind of growing it at the rate where you're kind of getting your partners and securing the next thing, and cash flow is the most important thing.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you can get that right, um, it's you know, it's not like tech where you have to kind of go under this huge development bill before you get anywhere.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we've also just got the most amazing partners um and community members that help us share about what we're doing because again, we're working with people that are really passionate about this kind of stuff and so want to share it with their community.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the community building alongside that kind of careful cash flow management has been incredibly important.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's been great.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know you're um a time hacker coach.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: We both know Vicky.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if anyone actually wants to listen, I will have to link the episode we did with Vicki, who founded Time Hacker, um, in the show notes.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: But tell us about time hacking and how have you incorporated what you've learned in that into this.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So Vicky is absolutely awesome, and I uh discovered her when I was kind of recruiting speakers.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I met Vicky and got to understand what the time hacker philosophy is all about, I was like, we have to have this at our event.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So Vicky spoke.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um what is the philosophy?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: The time hacker can remind me and remind me.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, you know, a lot of people may maybe if I share what I thought it was initially, and then what I understand it to be.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I wanted to get more done in less time, and I wanted the silver bullets um to create the extra how of me hours in the day.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's what I thought it was that from kind of the offset, what I thought it was going to give me.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what I truly understand now, it's about creating more success in less time.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not about doing more things, it's about truly understanding the value of rest, of space.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it really works on your beliefs, your decision making, and your fear of failure, which are all things that, yeah, I my relationship, I wouldn't say has changed, is changing because very much I'm on that path.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's something that we have.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships are with what or with who with with my beliefs, so self- self-trust, um, you know, my beliefs around rest, um, you know, even even my beliefs about what I can achieve and and you know what's possible for me.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, decision making.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I am somebody like I'm sure many people will relate to, because this is what the brain wants you to do, but is to make the right decision and this understanding that actually there isn't a right or a wrong decision.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, often it's just about getting the decision made and running with it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: But with that comes fear of failure.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if I'm not making the right decision, is this gonna fail?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or this, you know, people will often talk about imposter syndrome and things like that, all things that I've absolutely um struggled with and really trying to overcome.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and how things like that can stop you from being totally fully committed into what you're doing.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so kind of doing the thing, or um, but not necessarily believing it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're automatically putting up um, you know, a barrier to your success.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I really think the understanding growth where it can meet kindness is probably the one of the biggest things for me.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: So understanding that I am driven and I want to grow myself, my business, um, I want to achieve more with my my family and and so many other things.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if that's met with um a lack of self-trust, or it's um resentment, or me not doing it right, or even frustration, or even kind of panic and um doing things in a rush, um, versus meeting it with kind true, true kindness um to yourself, like the difference that that that can can make.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there's so many things that I've had to really unlearn because I think we measure ourselves on productivity, and I see it so much, and you know, I'm interested to know your thoughts on this, you know, especially in in workplaces, you know, there's presenteism that becomes more important than than anything else, um, or it's you know, getting back SLAs to get back to emails in 24 hours.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the biggest things um that I was coached on in in Time Hackers was this understanding that actually there's no point in just getting through your emails and seeing that as a kind of task list.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: What's the result that you want to drive from it?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, if I'm emailing Vicky, I could just go back, thank you for your email, I'll get back to you soon, or whatever it might be.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or actually, if it's because I want to secure Vicky as a speaker and I want to engage with her, build that relationship and access her community, the way in which I respond to that email or or even respond to the email coming into my inbox rather than oh my god, there's another thing on my to-do list, great, this is driving the result that I want to drive.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so how I tackle that will be very different rather than just coming back from I've got to get to inbox era and I've got to get everything in my to-do list done.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but having worked in events um for my entire career when often getting, you know, 500 emails a day where there's you know kind of things to do with it, it's you know, it's often you can just think, Oh my god, it's too much.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um overwhelm, and I think a lot of people feel that listen to this and be like, yeah, it feels like can feel overwhelming.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Inboxes can feel overwhelming.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think we can just become a slave to the tech.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And to it's interesting.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was I went to um a job board conference actually just before half term, and they were saying, you know, AI was meant to be the silver bullet that was going to make everything easier.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what's happened is the employees have obviously been using AI.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Candidates have been using AI.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so now they're getting more candidates that on paper look more qualified, so then they're having to use their AI to sip and do this AI, and it's actually becoming even more work for people.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And often it just increases the volume.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, again, the expectation.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're productive, you're productive before, and and you're, you know, well, now there's AI, right?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: You your capacity should be increased by X, Y, and Z.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um But then everyone's capacity feels like theirs, and then you're like just on this little hamster wheel trying to keep up with everybody.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and again it's then focused more on tasks rather than results, which can be um can be challenging.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, but I think that's often I don't think we are really clear, well, we touched on it earlier, what we want, need, and what we we need, want and dream of.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it comes back to it.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: But also in the work environment, you know, truly what are our you know, and so I've been um coaching some amazing people in the events industry, um, and it's fascinating because you know, even my resistance to how can this really work or what can we do in it?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's absolutely fascinating.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, coaching people, but um, you know, this I uh question of so what is the what is the target or what is what are you working towards?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: What is your objective?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: What does good look like?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um really diving into that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really interesting how um some people don't don't always truly understand what that is.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think getting getting that right is is so important, um, but also being able to understand how you work.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, recently someone was saying one my managers just told me to you know focus and and you know work in three hour blocks and you know that might work for them and that might drive results for them, but it might not for you.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so it's about being really self aware rather than just, as I say, being a slave to the the the process, the tech, you know, thinking, well, I've tried the Pomodoro technique as an example where you focus and for a certain amount of time have a short break.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um Or it might be, well, there's this new AI list.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my list that's in my notepad doesn't work.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to put it on the computer.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if your list is not working, there's probably something else going on there.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's probably.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably the list that's not the problem.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's probably not time that's the problem.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really as again getting under the hood, truly understanding what's coming up for you.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's often linked to belief, um, fear of failure, um, or decision making.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: How so you've done obviously you had you've had coaching, haven't you?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've done this time hacker coaching.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: You've you've been on a journey.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is there really anything else that's helped you?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So many things.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: So many things.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think one thing that's been so I joined Time Hackers and started my time hacker qualification um in January of this year.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did you do it for you or to become a time hacker coach for other people?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or a bit of both.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: A bit of both.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think um really for me.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm the kind of person that if somebody shares something with me, I'm like, but why or how?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I feel like I'm often somebody who really needs to understand the theory rather than just being, you know, understand how it's going to work for me.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's why I was like um joining time hackers almost just didn't feel enough.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to really immerse myself.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's interesting again, you know, understanding, putting the qualification, but perhaps that kind of accountability that I needed as opposed to just um joining as a member of community, which you can even just with that, you can get just the most amazing value.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so I decided to do that.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I think because of the amount of things I questioned based on my career in the events industry, Vicky talks about this kind of time revolution.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, my industry, the events industry needs this.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think even just seeing the amount of people, especially after children, the amount of women after having having children that leave the workplace or can't manage everything.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know, again, this kind of sense of purpose was just kind of activated.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, in the same way that I felt that I wanted to take home life anew to the masses, I was like, I need to take time hacking to the events industry.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but first and foremost, it was really um about me understanding it.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've secured my first client simply from having a conversation with somebody about oh, I'm doing this this thing at the moment, and like we need that.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So even before I got qualified, they were like, Can you come and work with our team?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's interesting, I think there are some people that you've kind of got to be open to change.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think your your initial question was, what else has helped you?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think being open to understanding that the things that I believe now might not be serving me, um, and being willing to let other solutions in, that willingness to to change.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not that um, you know, I was I was wrong and I need to be a different person, but just truly understanding again from kindness how I can help myself more, I think.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that across the board, you know, any other conversation about rest and and burnout experts telling me X, Y, and Z or otherwise, and just truly, yeah, being open, I think has been the key thing.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that that can be really exposing.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt very exposed, very, very vulnerable um throughout this process, yet this kind of building of strength at the same time.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think it can be quite easy, you know.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: At any one point, I could have gone, not going to do this qualification, or actually the event's too much, or you know, whatever it might be.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and do you think people use the lack of time as an excuse?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people could have said, I haven't got time to do that qualification.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and I think that's the other reason that I was like, you know, if people aren't coming to my event, I don't have time to come to the event, or I don't have time to put into practice the things that I've uh listened to on social media or uh heard your people uh on the stage talk about.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that was an important angle for me too.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I've always said, if I just had some more time, or I just my favorite one, I just need to get through this next event.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just need to get through this next event.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I should tot up how many events that I've worked on in my career, but the amount of times that I've said that, you know, or I just need to get through this week, or I just need to work late tonight or for the for the rest of the week.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or I just need that new hire, or I you know, whatever it might be, that kind of time or capacity piece.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and ultimately there are only 24 hours in a day.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's what we do, don't we?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: That matters.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think, you know, that was my first thing that would go.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I remember um a number of years ago working on um a variety of events for like an events uh management kind of delivery agency.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was working on events in a few different time zones, including China, and I would almost do like a day for my UK clients, and then that would finish, and I would work on the um the event with the um clients in China, and they didn't celebrate Christmas in the same way that we do.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: So easily I would just be working around the clock because this idea of, but I've got to keep on top of my emails and I've got to do the thing, and sleep would go, rest would go, um, I wouldn't eat, or if I did eat, it would be whatever I could get delivered, or I could just grab in two seconds.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and truly understanding now that rest, how I feel my body, and do you know, even me saying it, I hate myself for saying it because if I was me listening to me like a few years ago, oh my god, I don't want to hear it.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's like it's like when we talk about even things like perimenopause or or various other things, and it's like eat well, move, you know, and it's all but like I haven't got time for that.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a lot of the time it's I think it's almost like I haven't got capacity for that.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or I've not prioritised that, I've not prioritised that, yeah.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just on this hamster.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've prioritised my events or whatever it is.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've just got to get it done.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think I think it's just trusting that you can just take take a little step off the hamster wheel for a second and just kind of review review where you're at.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Vicky um from Time Hackers will often talk about sprints rather than marathons and the idea that you're actually building the muscle in rest.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and certainly I've seen if I take a moment where ideas can come or solutions to a problem.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was a famous founder, I can't remember his name now, that actually installed a shower in his office because he had his best ideas in the shower.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I get that, I understand.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, I'm a shower in my office, but I um I have better ideas not on my desk.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think, you know, it's really, really challenging now.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm talking to you from my dining room, which again is a multi-purpose room.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, where I think home, um, life, work, kids, well-being, it's all so merged now that I think it can be harder than ever to really kind of see the wood for the trees within it.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even um well-being, I think, has become something that we have to be productive with and tick off.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's not possible to wear the rest or do one thing at the same time because we should be multitasking.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, people might be listening to this podcast thinking they're resting, but actually they're doing their, you know, they're listening to this and doing their ironing and thinking about the shopping, and you know, and so I think it's really, you know, celebrating the fact that they can be so merged now, but finding a way that you can switch off from one, switch off from one to the other, or even be present.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is something that I've really been practicing and I really, really struggle with, you know, being present with my kids because I'm thinking about that email that I've is half written, but that I didn't finish it before the school run, or yeah, I get that.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm really bad for checking my phone in front of the kids, and that is something that is I I feel that's my worst parenting habit.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's and this is again, there's no silver bullet, it's hard, it takes practice, and you've got to understand what works for you.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have vivid work dreams, especially in the the run-up to the event, where I think I've had a conversation with someone, or I think I've emailed someone or sent I've done a spreadsheet.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I could have told you, but I've done it.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you haven't.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's just me and mindful of that.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I I we talk about often working well under pressure, um, but you know, do we work well in spite of pressure?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that we necessarily need the pressure, the stress, the the time, the accountability, the, you know, that all of those things I can understand, you know, depending on on who you are and how you work, and um could can can make a difference in various ways.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: But just being really, really aware, like what what happened then?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, how how did that work or how did it not work?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you doing something in spite of it as opposed to because of it.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that we, you know, I used to work well under pressure, and again, CVs work well under pressure.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that that's great, but do you really need that every day of your your career of your life to get anything done?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or can there be another way?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've really enjoyed our conversation, Peddy.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, where can people get if they want to get tickets for next year's event, where can they get those tickets?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: So head to ww.homelifeandu.com, um, which is our website, and tickets are currently available£10 for the weekend.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we've got limited available event at that rate.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: So get in quick.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but please do have a look at our Instagram um because we have some amazing conversations on there.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: So home life and you is our handle.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, by all means, DM me on there if you've got any questions about this.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Would love to hear from you.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, we're we're really excited to bring more conversations around careers uh into our um kind of session.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you also offer coaching now, do you as well?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I offer time, yeah, yeah, I offer time coaching.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and do go and check out Time Hackers.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Vicky's got some amazing uh information um on the website as well.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Go and have a look there.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, if you're interested, want to find out more about anything that I've said, or share, want to share that something's resonated, or um call BS on anything that I've said.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'd love a debate as well.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anything I would love to hear from you, home life from you on Instagram, on the on the DMs, please do just get get in touch.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, and if you by all means, if you've got anything that you think that would be useful for you to share um with our community as well, would love to hear from you.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I just I just think this melting pot of different ideas, experiences, learnings is what really makes like sets our community apart, and we just want to keep building on that because then we're gonna be helping as many people as possible.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Penny, for joining me today.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willet and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can also follow my recruitment site, Investing in Women, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.