Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Steven Alexander about his choice of The Robots of Death (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Steven Alexander about his choice of The Robots of Death (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, and welcome to hamster with a plant Penn State.
• 0:06
  A Doctor Who come and tree podcast I am Robo.
• 0:10
  Steve, Steve is unavailable as he is going to get a coffee.
• 0:14
  I'm here with Joe. Hello Joe.
• 0:16
  Hello, how are you today? I have no emotions.
• 0:21
  So I'm feeling a fairly emotionless as usual.
• 0:25
  Are you feeling emotional as Jang?
• 0:28
  Never? Now I'm I'm always horny.
• 0:32
  Do I have a question for you? Joe, would you like to answer a
• 0:35
  question Joe say yes or no. Yes, Joe.
• 0:41
  Are you a robosexual undoubtedly?
• 0:49
  I think that you are Robo. Curious and not able robosexual,
• 0:54
  I have made this assumption. Oh, Steve is back.
• 0:57
  Now he has his copy, so we can stop this bullshit.
• 1:00
  Let's do it. Sound like you, are you so like
• 1:02
  that? Be right there, not robot be
• 1:04
  near that. They mate, be no, yeah, Barbara
• 1:08
  was absolutely obsessed with the war.
• 1:09
  He's a fucking robot. Any, that's what?
• 1:11
  All right, I didn't mean that this robot they made in the in
• 1:18
  the bazaars of this woman. Be not a scientist.
• 1:21
  Oh yeah. And she had a conversation with
• 1:25
  Alexa, or one talking devices. And she started talking about
• 1:31
  nuclear weapons. Turning all nuclear weapons.
• 1:33
  Yes. Into beautiful flowers thing
• 1:37
  like the nuclear weapons and turn them into flowers.
• 1:42
  She got up like a proper human face and sort of like a lip
• 1:45
  action. Like that to say Marvin, he's an
• 1:48
  impression of her. You know, I've had some amazing
• 1:56
  robots in our time. I was at I think it was
• 2:00
  Disneyland and we saw a robot called Asimo spell, ASI Mr. B.
• 2:06
  Perhaps possible because it's awesome and this robot, it could
• 2:10
  walk. It could sit on a sofa and it
• 2:12
  could pick up a bag. I mean, fuck off.
• 2:14
  Blown away. Well, then my question for you
• 2:19
  is going into this episode which is the superior robot.
• 2:22
  Are you ready? Okay, Stiles.
• 2:25
  Robot robot from Terminus. The Raishin security.
• 2:30
  Robot or jedikiah from The Tomorrow.
• 2:35
  People what a selection. I actually I've got a
• 2:40
  convertible actually quite like, the Federation security robot.
• 2:44
  I think that that's been with lights on it.
• 2:49
  It's, I don't think it's as bad as the others.
• 2:51
  I think it's kind of. Okay.
• 2:54
  Well, which makes everyone was younger.
• 2:55
  I thought that's quite cool. Then I found out everyone hates.
• 2:58
  Do I like his little nose, and Faced with the Torches high
• 3:02
  fiving around B out that he flamethrowers.
• 3:05
  Yeah, none of the others do that.
• 3:06
  I mean, Stars thing with the manacles that come out is
• 3:09
  totally unconvincing as the Terminus robot, does the same
• 3:13
  thing. It's just crap.
• 3:14
  They can't do it. So cumbersome is a if there's a
• 3:17
  one good sneeze can see it off. Yeah.
• 3:19
  And you think he had a kaya? I mean, he's just a block with
• 3:24
  some pipe cleaners coming out of his arms, a little.
• 3:28
  Yeah but it's the same 40 people.
• 3:30
  So you love it for its nothingness.
• 3:32
  And we could have had robots like that.
• 3:39
  We could have had like, is rather the point, isn't it?
• 3:43
  Yeah, this these the 1950 while he's 1950s cereals.
• 3:46
  The Phantom Empire, which has famously crap robots that look
• 3:49
  like guys in cricket outfits with box heads and they've got
• 3:52
  the piping for the arms. You know, that sort of ripped
• 3:56
  piping for the arms and it's just and Claws.
• 3:58
  It just looks crap. But this is just gorgeous of
• 4:02
  these robots is so sophisticated that we are having conversations
• 4:07
  about are these robots human uncanny valley, you know and all
• 4:11
  of these are is this a slave Uprising rather than just a
• 4:14
  bunch of robots going around? Murdering people had they look
• 4:18
  like those shitty robots and all those other things.
• 4:20
  I live here. No one's having conversations
• 4:22
  about The Tomorrow. People jedikiah's robot like
• 4:24
  that or Styles. Robot or The Terminal.
• 4:28
  Oh no, to the cars. So it Make me really think about
• 4:30
  what it means to be human. So not only just a script
• 4:33
  provide that kind of intelligent conversation, but the designers,
• 4:37
  well, if you watch all the special features, there's a
• 4:40
  fantastic interview panel and panopticon, where you've got
• 4:42
  Louise Jameson David, Bailey and a couple of others and Lily,
• 4:46
  James and talks about the power of the mask and it's just as
• 4:51
  well. Yeah, I'm not going to go into
• 4:53
  it now because it's all available, but it is wonderful
• 4:56
  and that is part of the robot experience, as well about Being
• 5:00
  someone else and the blankness of the mask and I love that
• 5:04
  thing. She said, where you just look at
• 5:05
  the mask until it tells you, it's ready for you to put it on.
• 5:10
  And I think that's so interesting, very little woman,
• 5:14
  isn't she exactly she doesn't fucking boring commentary.
• 5:20
  Show me that out of work actress.
• 5:23
  Jenna stolen quite a lot. It's the stories we love to
• 5:28
  hear. We see these fabulous robots in
• 5:30
  action because I got a feeling, you know, they're going to be on
• 5:32
  the attack now. Oh, yes.
• 5:35
  Here they come. It's about time for the robots
• 5:37
  of death to start. Well, actually that how they
• 5:39
  killed so far? They've killed.
• 5:42
  No, they killed Zelda. Yeah, chub chub.
• 5:45
  Morgue Org. The Asian man whose name we
• 5:49
  couldn't remember that's bollocks isn't it?
• 5:51
  Uncle look Al fakher his name. Probably is bollocks.
• 5:54
  You know space name? Yeah.
• 5:59
  Okay. So We've guilt book, Zelda.
• 6:03
  Chub Cass is Cass. I was cast.
• 6:06
  That's right virile. Virile is from some Tower
• 6:11
  experiment. Well, there you go.
• 6:12
  That crazy seen everywhere. Could you eat it right outside?
• 6:15
  Excuse me. Half a second.
• 6:16
  I'm just going to ask my robot to shut the window.
• 6:19
  V16 would you mind shutting the window?
• 6:21
  Thank you very much. It's just on it right now.
• 6:23
  Okay. They're so lazy, the robots.
• 6:26
  They should really learn a bit of respect around this place.
• 6:29
  It's not a white stains on them. I don't know how they got there.
• 6:32
  Okay, fine. Let's go into episode.
• 6:35
  Okay, all right. You want to counters in Joe and
• 6:37
  five four, three, two one. Let's go.
• 6:44
  Let's go, Robo. Yeah, you do an impression of
• 6:49
  stick from coal here at the beginning of this episode.
• 6:51
  Not for, where's he going with this other thing?
• 6:55
  And that is so it's it's a really good point because
• 6:59
  everybody thinks Pink sold out that voice there.
• 7:01
  That Stephen Hawking voice but it's just a voice synthesizer.
• 7:05
  I remember, I remember you saying, sort of later in life,
• 7:07
  you know, we could do a better voice synthesizer and he said he
• 7:11
  said no he didn't want it because this is now my voice.
• 7:13
  This is what is associated with me and this is how I talk have.
• 7:17
  You done a start? I've done the Star Trek episode,
• 7:19
  anything Which ones that did a sorcerer Kappa sewed.
• 7:24
  And it's an unexpected one, where he's in at the start
• 7:26
  playing poker? I have actually yeah.
• 7:28
  The same. Yeah.
• 7:29
  It's six Climax and the season. Seven opener.
• 7:34
  Yeah. I have here, Dreadful episode
• 7:36
  this, all of them. Okay.
• 7:38
  I'll do you think these robot voices are amazing in this and
• 7:41
  probably the second best ever robot voices, but I have to say
• 7:45
  those original solid voices for Battlestar Galactica.
• 7:48
  The original series are still the best.
• 7:49
  Just my all-time favorite robot voice is Tomb of the Cybermen.
• 7:55
  And you know, because we're right beside seen the 80s
• 8:00
  sidemen. I was in Revenge of the
• 8:02
  Cybermen. I thought I knew how sidemen
• 8:03
  talked and we got two of the seidman on VHS the first time
• 8:07
  you get through, and you get to the end of episode 2 and
• 8:10
  suddenly they're not doing, oh, we will survive.
• 8:14
  You will be like us as you expect the arm, you will be
• 8:18
  lying girl. And it was, oh my God, that's so
• 8:22
  cool moment. You think we're ditching?
• 8:25
  Yeah. Well not rare times for these
• 8:30
  humanoids are not like girls they say.
• 8:33
  Yeah yeah. Yeah, I think the second dr.
• 8:39
  Seidman voices are fantastic. I love, I think that's how they
• 8:42
  should sell and go back to this set very quickly.
• 8:46
  Look at how it sort of Bill as a Oh my God.
• 8:51
  What would you like a semicircle?
• 8:53
  Yeah, huge arches. Big arches are yeah, I'm those
• 8:57
  arches are big. Those are huge, structural
• 8:59
  arches and they reflect the got the sphere of the center, and
• 9:03
  then you got the Arches, which reflect the circularity of that
• 9:07
  sphere in the center. So it's all built around.
• 9:09
  That central control panel is it's so good.
• 9:12
  Hey guys, you can how can me sometimes, you know, that or
• 9:17
  rather you can out shriek p. Davison.
• 9:21
  Yeah. So she's getting that bandage on
• 9:24
  her arm now, just imagine imagine to say.
• 9:26
  Oh, thank you, Lila, but it's really fucking.
• 9:28
  Did she just take off? It's irritated even worse.
• 9:34
  It is nice though, isn't it? That Lila is not just the
• 9:38
  huntress. She can be very gentle with
• 9:40
  carrots as well. So she is with too soon.
• 9:42
  This, she's like Vincent horror of fang Rock.
• 9:47
  She looks after that proceed and itchy and talents with triang.
• 9:51
  Yeah, I think probably in every single story if you look Mar
• 9:55
  Tyler in image of the fenders and she say, oh, I won't let
• 9:59
  anyone hurt you. Yeah.
• 10:02
  She's okay. I just the risk of sake.
• 10:05
  Oh, she's just so good, but she is and it adds a bit of
• 10:09
  Dimension to a character. You know, she's more than one
• 10:12
  note. She's more than the Eliza
• 10:14
  Doolittle. She's already a fully-formed
• 10:16
  person, but she's having to cope with all these strange, new
• 10:20
  worlds, if you realize, this is so good.
• 10:23
  This story, we have actually barely talked about on wake up,
• 10:30
  but there's so much Else like the underworld your stock just
• 10:34
  talking about Tom by Tom Baker, Tom Baker ring around.
• 10:38
  Yeah I'm and I and and this is him at his absolute Zenith.
• 10:45
  I think he's incredible at what he does in the later Seasons but
• 10:49
  this is the height of the Hinchcliffe Tom where he's dark
• 10:52
  and mysterious but also very funny incredibly charismatic and
• 10:57
  all those things people say about him and he never plays a
• 10:59
  line straight but at all Always plays it, right?
• 11:02
  It's incredible. Gets his really dark lines like
• 11:05
  you saying. You play some like almost lost
• 11:07
  at the end of this episode in literally says, oh, you're
• 11:10
  behind in on this or it followed you.
• 11:13
  It depends which of us is going to kill first like so blah,
• 11:16
  blah, and again, okay. Are you can tell this is a 70
• 11:21
  story though because there is so much Brown on the screen right
• 11:24
  now. I mean, look, they got brown
• 11:25
  bugs or brown seats with an orange E, Brown background, how
• 11:29
  much like this has been sponsored by saying spray.
• 11:31
  It in the background All Saints, but it's a series had these
• 11:35
  colors in the 70s. There were much more down this
• 11:38
  road and wh Smiths. Yeah, I remember Joey's just
• 11:43
  said they're gonna pop this in the war because it's basically
• 11:46
  filtrate refill traded piece. Like you, I suggest you into a
• 11:52
  secret Joe Am I drinking piss right now?
• 11:56
  Yeah, every drop of water on this planet has been through.
• 11:58
  Lots of people hundreds of times.
• 12:01
  You're probably breathing the same particles of Every Breath
• 12:04
  You Take. You read the similar particle of
• 12:06
  air but Isaac Newton. They want some free appeased or
• 12:09
  some shit like that. I can't remember.
• 12:10
  Exactly well. Thank you Barney.
• 12:12
  We go to bed and not sleep. Now thinking everyone's a poxy
• 12:16
  robot but I'm never gonna have a drink again.
• 12:18
  I'll be dead by the end of the week.
• 12:20
  Yeah. Well it gets worse because I
• 12:22
  mean, all we are is a thin layer of slime.
• 12:24
  And shit on the purple on the surface of the planet.
• 12:26
  That's that's all, that's all human existence.
• 12:29
  What's the fastest way of looking at it?
• 12:31
  They're also capable of great Beauty, we are light and that's
• 12:34
  what's amazing about it is that we we we have all these great
• 12:38
  things, despite our Earthly Origins but robots are not like
• 12:43
  that as ever. Steve, you bring a unique slant
• 12:45
  and he's hamster commentaries, you know, I think this is really
• 12:49
  scary. Now when you've got like the the
• 12:52
  damaged heads because like, you know, because they A facsimile
• 12:54
  of a human being, that's the equivalent of someone having
• 12:57
  their head smashed in, isn't it? Yeah, I've but this this scene
• 13:02
  also kind of gives away Dusk and is very scary because there's
• 13:08
  the one with it, there's the damage one here and he's, you
• 13:12
  know, he's just he's being all weird about it but he doesn't
• 13:15
  notice the one with the hand and surely, you noticed, the bloody
• 13:17
  hand I've died about. I want, what do you think this
• 13:22
  works? Or does it make sense?
• 13:24
  Turn that thing around. Yeah, it's a high hand.
• 13:27
  Yeah, but he's got the same, come on things now when he has
• 13:30
  the breakdown, I mean, dang, that's quite disgusting, isn't
• 13:34
  it? Yeah, it's got pizza.
• 13:37
  Got on it, it's bits of Apple Core Castle River and yeah
• 13:43
  watching this then began. Yes.
• 13:45
  Bring it on. Bring on the gunk.
• 13:48
  That's old screen for a good 10 seconds there.
• 13:50
  And then you've got somebody losing their mind.
• 13:54
  Only gorgeous. It is a lasersohn probe.
• 13:57
  It can take the bunch of fist-sized hole in six inch
• 14:00
  armor plate or go up or put the crystals from a snowflake one by
• 14:09
  one. I love the laser some probe
• 14:13
  holder as well because it looks like a real bit of Kit and I
• 14:16
  love it. It's got lasers imprinted on it.
• 14:18
  That's just, you know it's amazing support.
• 14:22
  There is a see guy that I visit this episode.
• 14:24
  So, for a class, very clean desk.
• 14:26
  Now, on that screen, like there's no doubt that that evil
• 14:29
  man is the sequence where he is, he's got the robots head open,
• 14:37
  and he's bringing the lasers, and probe down and the robots
• 14:41
  hands. He's really anxious.
• 14:43
  And, and almost like, scared his hands on playing about my, yeah,
• 14:47
  it's a priority red priority rent moment.
• 14:50
  And, and you see the claw was going away, is he's operating on
• 14:53
  his A reprogramming in orders except except except accepted
• 15:00
  orders accepted. Aye.
• 15:02
  Aye. I understand.
• 15:05
  Sorry, I can't. Let's go be done.
• 15:09
  I was the oldest it. Now, we kind of knew that
• 15:11
  though, didn't we? Yeah, but but there's a reason
• 15:14
  why this one gets under the skin and you quote it all the time.
• 15:17
  It's because this all that I look at Tom there just with a
• 15:22
  big smile it just nine is a fucking Zinger professional
• 15:27
  interest or morbid curiosity, you know, happiness.
• 15:34
  And and it's got that kind of ambiguity that that Chris
• 15:38
  Belcher love so much where where the lines could have other
• 15:41
  meanings if you read it from a different angle and you're not
• 15:44
  quite you don't quite nail people's characters, down
• 15:46
  straight away, which is so good. Absolutely believe this
• 15:50
  relationship between Tom Baker and dat for as well.
• 15:54
  Nothing is absolute Charming, as hell.
• 15:56
  Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna do my favorite.
• 15:58
  One, Dom's vocs are Superbook and then there's you, I cannot
• 16:06
  explain. Yeah, it's so hard to do robots.
• 16:11
  You dead concrete. I know we've talked a lot as
• 16:15
  well. This is it.
• 16:16
  I find this thing very, very creepy.
• 16:18
  Not only is he dressed up. Bogan Klu Klux Klan in shift.
• 16:23
  Yeah. It's the hands.
• 16:25
  It's the hands twisted and nervous.
• 16:29
  I'm going to try and draw a comparison here, which I'm not
• 16:32
  sure. I'm on safe, ground with so bear
• 16:33
  with me. Have you seen get out?
• 16:37
  No Jordan. Peele film, okay.
• 16:39
  If you have seen it, then maybe there are some similarities and
• 16:44
  what's going on here too. That I don't want to talk about
• 16:47
  it because I haven't seen myself.
• 16:49
  I've read about it because I was so intrigued by it and it's got
• 16:53
  its got like that. Brilliant guy in it.
• 16:55
  I could get everybody's fucking day.
• 16:57
  Who was in psychoville previously.
• 16:59
  But anyway but yeah. But there is a big element of
• 17:03
  that in this and I'll shut up now good.
• 17:07
  If they're not human. Why is that robot behaving in a
• 17:11
  way? It's the hands.
• 17:13
  That's that's anxiety. But okay.
• 17:16
  All right, we're going to get a deep into it in a pot, some
• 17:19
  point. But it is programmed to behave
• 17:23
  in a way that is slightly human and it copies and a tapes, human
• 17:27
  behavior. Even if it's not human itself,
• 17:30
  we're still pretty scary I think.
• 17:32
  Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Well and if it's all its
• 17:36
  programs are saying, if a human was being operated on him this
• 17:40
  way and having a giant laser projected into its brain, how
• 17:43
  would it behave? And it would go, oh no, I don't
• 17:47
  do this. And its hands would ride such a
• 17:50
  good touch as well because it could have just been still This
• 17:54
  is all part 3. Exposition done amazingly.
• 17:57
  Well, you're still looking for evidence like Erica Powell is on
• 18:03
  the sand minor. He figured that he does.
• 18:06
  It is it that the H4 doesn't think he's on the Sam, I know
• 18:09
  because he's checked everybody's background.
• 18:12
  Yeah so he's done what computers do.
• 18:14
  He's got a list of people and he's got photos of what they
• 18:17
  look like and he's checked and it all matches up so there can't
• 18:20
  be any anomalies but because he's a computer.
• 18:23
  You didn't think this is one of the key things about AI is that
• 18:29
  it will look at what it, what you tell it to look at, but if
• 18:32
  it's true, artificial intelligence, we will look at
• 18:34
  where you tell it to look at and then it will look around the
• 18:36
  subjects and will think around the issue rather than doing
• 18:39
  directly. What you've told it to II knew
• 18:43
  you see, all these chat Bots and artwork AI generators and I
• 18:47
  don't think it's true. I at all, I think it's just an
• 18:50
  interpolation of what people are fed into it previously.
• 18:52
  Just Takes a thousand conversations and then gives you
• 18:55
  an average and that's all it does.
• 18:58
  But true AI would say, what is the conversation?
• 19:03
  And then start thinking around the subject and that's what
• 19:06
  dates for can't do anyway but he can't do it but yeah because
• 19:09
  he's very literal-minded because and I'm programmed to behave in
• 19:11
  a certain way. And then he says, and he looks
• 19:13
  down hard and goes, I have failed.
• 19:18
  He's if he's not human, he's mimicking, human behavior in a
• 19:22
  very sweet. It is, it's endearing and it's
• 19:26
  adorable, and it makes it very hard to remember, they're not
• 19:30
  human. But then I there's a lot people,
• 19:34
  right? So, again, straying into danger
• 19:37
  at slightly dangerous territory, there's a lot of people who are
• 19:40
  other in some way, the find identification in these
• 19:45
  characters. So people who have
• 19:48
  neurodivergent aspects, I think this has been talked about
• 19:52
  loads. If you have a sort of like a
• 19:54
  degree of autism or whatever, then people who take things
• 19:59
  watching these robots like data and these robots take things
• 20:02
  very literally and not really do emotions in the same way that
• 20:07
  other people do is kind of you can see Part of Yourself
• 20:11
  reflected in that even if it's it's definitely, I mean it's you
• 20:14
  can't describe it as true autism.
• 20:16
  It's just it's just a reflection of some elements of that.
• 20:19
  Well, wasn't it called mr. Robot which yeah.
• 20:23
  Oscillating so that I've been that's been recommended.
• 20:27
  That's another recommend a that's a recognition for me.
• 20:29
  Now I'll definitely get against a list but there are there's
• 20:33
  more identifications as well because I think particularly
• 20:38
  with Star Wars, I think all the robots in that are gay.
• 20:43
  They're all coded as homosexual certainly certainly if a hundred
• 20:48
  percent, but they, that they're all are, and you've got that
• 20:51
  kind of being the Real worship. There's a very bitchy
• 20:55
  domineering kind of gay character and they're all other
• 20:58
  din a way, but I died that I ate.
• 21:01
  It is interesting that you project these things onto those
• 21:05
  robots, which are kind of blank slates.
• 21:08
  You know, what re is, there was one thing about this.
• 21:11
  A really Disturbed me and that is it's a weird parallel, but go
• 21:16
  with it for a second. Yeah, I got a sort of not 911
• 21:22
  parallel with this. As well.
• 21:24
  Okay, like when task came aboard, the sand minor, he knew
• 21:33
  that these people going about their business, that he was
• 21:36
  going to perform murderous and terrorizing acts and he's just
• 21:40
  behaving like an absolutely normal person is near the star
• 21:43
  just like those terrorists were doing on that plane when they
• 21:46
  when they got on, then for everyone else, it was just a
• 21:49
  normal fly before, sort of terrible things happen.
• 21:52
  And And so it makes those early scenes in this of watching, dad
• 21:57
  asked, knowing it's going to, like, perform these horrible
• 22:02
  acts really quite disturbing. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:08
  Well, that's the kind of Psychopathic projection so,
• 22:15
  because he's not sweating, he's not panicking, he's not, he's
• 22:17
  not nervous, he's not visibly nervous, but he doesn't.
• 22:22
  He And see the humans as humans, he doesn't see them.
• 22:26
  He doesn't see the humans. As people, he thinks the robots
• 22:29
  are the people and he's disconnected himself from his
• 22:32
  emotion. So it's so he's probably, he's
• 22:35
  probably copying a way of Behaving rather than rejecting
• 22:39
  any of his normal motions at all.
• 22:41
  He's the kind of person who practices is smiling in the
• 22:43
  mirror to work out. What it's like, I've got us
• 22:48
  communities people. Yeah, but also that's also an
• 22:51
  interesting in version of the robots as well because the
• 22:54
  robots don't have emotions and that's also feels that he's a
• 22:57
  robot and he's killed his emotions so he can behave in
• 23:01
  this way. What I find so interesting about
• 23:05
  that ask is we are need an awful lot of backstory.
• 23:09
  The doctor says, let me guess robot upbringing and that's all
• 23:13
  you need to know and why he feels that his people are
• 23:21
  enslaved. Yeah.
• 23:23
  Yeah, yeah. Again, again just so economical.
• 23:27
  So is a good script. Likely, Brian, you're a great
• 23:31
  guy. We love you to bits, but no, I'm
• 23:35
  going to ask you a question from Nathan bottomley.
• 23:37
  Next, I warned you want to hear. Oh, here we go, here we go.
• 23:40
  Does the doctor suppress a slave Uprising against our bump?
• 23:44
  A bunch of pampered Aristocrats? There are that, is that is the
• 23:50
  vital question that I've been skirting around because I've
• 23:52
  read that Earlier today, I think if you view the Hinchcliffe
• 23:57
  error and large pots of Doctor, Who through the prism of
• 24:01
  colonialism, which I is not wrong, it's not wrong to do
• 24:06
  that. Then yes, this is the most if
• 24:11
  you take the metaphor that the robots represents some kind of
• 24:15
  human slavery. Then this is the most morally
• 24:19
  degenerate or full episode of Doctor Who because Is it plays
• 24:23
  into all those awful tropes? And it's I'm Isa.
• 24:29
  I'm sitting here saying over and what's on human?
• 24:32
  They don't feel the way we do. But you know, there are people
• 24:36
  who say that about real humans and they dehumanize them in that
• 24:40
  way and they dehumanize the and they other firm and yeah.
• 24:45
  But in this case, they are robots, but maybe I'm wrong.
• 24:50
  It's a really, yeah, it's a really morally ambiguous.
• 24:53
  Louis area. Do you think?
• 24:56
  I think I think I've got an interesting relationship with
• 25:01
  these robots. I'm doing a lot of projecting.
• 25:05
  Yeah, I'm doing a lot of personifying or humanizing of
• 25:10
  them because they appear to have personalities and they appear to
• 25:14
  behave it. But we have seen that with our
• 25:18
  one, you know, laser some probe, they could their entire
• 25:22
  personalities Can be changed, you know?
• 25:25
  So good. Yeah, Sorrel Thomas alms do I
• 25:28
  think, do I think the doctors right to say?
• 25:30
  Yeah, because he says this would be the end of this civilization.
• 25:33
  If this happens in this, I hate, you know, this civilization is
• 25:39
  artfully, Reliant upon this in inverted, commas, slave race.
• 25:47
  But then similar sort of thing happened in The Impossible
• 25:50
  Planet, didn't it? Oh well, yes.
• 25:53
  And that is a worse example because the Ood are organic
• 25:57
  beings with emotions and feelings and we see them in
• 26:01
  Terror at the end and they don't get saved.
• 26:05
  Yeah, and they had to come back to it, but I just basically and
• 26:10
  I don't want to say this because I'm just reading towards as I
• 26:13
  know not enough about but If you go back and just place the
• 26:17
  robot, the word robot with people with dark skin throughout
• 26:22
  through everything, we've been saying, you can see what
• 26:25
  horrible metaphor that is to take from this.
• 26:28
  So I prefer not to do that because I like to enjoy Doctor
• 26:30
  Who. Yeah.
• 26:31
  Yeah. But you could say he probably
• 26:33
  could give the reading and and you see in enslave cultures that
• 26:39
  wrote the they treat them as robots so they in exactly the
• 26:43
  same way. You see it even with servants
• 26:47
  in. But like, they used to have a
• 26:50
  Victorian times. If you watch it in Upstairs
• 26:52
  Downstairs, they don't pay them any mind at all.
• 26:54
  They don't think of them as humans.
• 26:56
  They're just, they're so put the fucking Cutlery on the table to
• 27:02
  make the food, and to make our lives easy.
• 27:04
  And then your tongue to go away, and they go away early times
• 27:07
  where every window they open a window and it there just remote
• 27:10
  controls. That's all they are.
• 27:12
  But you get to do that to a human being is sees these So
• 27:16
  it's so wrong. It's such a such an awful
• 27:18
  exchange and to do that to our robot is acceptable.
• 27:22
  Well. Yeah.
• 27:22
  Because that's but, but then when does it become a robot?
• 27:26
  And when is it a toaster? We're back in measure a man
• 27:29
  territory here, aren't we? Exactly, no answer that
• 27:33
  question. That's why we're in circles
• 27:35
  because there is no proper answer to that.
• 27:37
  And yeah, who's was just terrorized in her bedroom?
• 27:42
  Another. No.
• 27:43
  No, I think like, Sighs. Poor kid earrings watching this
• 27:47
  Ghana bids? Yeah, yeah.
• 27:51
  Yeah. The the bedroom is one place
• 27:53
  that Doctor Who should not go because I because I like to slip
• 27:57
  I like to sleep and even as a kid I liked to sleep.
• 27:59
  I like to wake up in the middle of night thinking.
• 28:01
  I was going to get to me even if I did have a massive clamshell
• 28:04
  bed, really go into bedrooms too, often does it fear her
• 28:11
  night terrors and a couple of other times?
• 28:15
  Yeah. But very rarely like in Terror
• 28:17
  of the vervoids and kind of a muzzle ships, and things like
• 28:20
  that. We go.
• 28:21
  Hi babe. Yeah, we see, we see space
• 28:24
  bedrooms with triangular, pillows and gold fabric, sheets
• 28:29
  leaders, trying to be kind to pull now.
• 28:31
  Yeah. So I just say we missed, I heard
• 28:34
  a cry. We did.
• 28:37
  It's very, very funny. So that's an amazing scene that
• 28:40
  was me. I, yeah, I'm another thing that
• 28:44
  makes you love the 84. The relationship and Tom Baker
• 28:47
  as well. It's just us, gorgeous trouble
• 28:49
  with this story is, yeah, is so superlative that well, you know,
• 28:56
  it's not that you can't talk about it because we've talked
• 28:59
  about if three episodes and some it's just that you sort of you
• 29:07
  critically. It's hard to come at it isn't?
• 29:10
  It was reused. We're so used to looking for a
• 29:15
  And discussing all the things that don't quite work.
• 29:18
  And, oh, If Only They had told more time even he had more
• 29:21
  money. Yeah, it's relevant here.
• 29:24
  No, no. I'm just sad tone popping up
• 29:27
  from behind the laser some Pro, but it's just so good.
• 29:29
  You got Russell hunt with a bit of jam on his head.
• 29:33
  Hey guys, what are you doing here?
• 29:35
  Why does it upset you? And now our yes kill the doctor
• 29:41
  V falls. On the case, have you notice how
• 29:44
  there's a fade To the title sequence with the Cliffhangers
• 29:48
  gears. And usually I is that because
• 29:51
  they cut the original tapes, when they made the VHS, is that
• 29:57
  how it was originally? I don't know.
• 30:00
  And how does the be a child of Interest?
• 30:01
  Must have the overlap? I don't know.
• 30:03
  Yeah. It's like a is like day of the
• 30:07
  Daleks because that was one that I had on VHS and watch 400 times
• 30:11
  and that does really odd things going into the credits, doesn't
• 30:13
  it? You get the sting of the gym.
• 30:15
  With all kinds of policy ideas. But there is there is a sort of
• 30:21
  a history of the occasional moment of this isn't there.
• 30:23
  Like Paul Bernard stay of the Daleks sting reprises.
• 30:28
  I think I like you know okay well I'm going to head back into
• 30:32
  Twitter land now Bray that's okay okay I'll look Jason
• 30:37
  Thompson has written as a small essay so I'm going to read it
• 30:41
  all out. You ready?
• 30:42
  Please do any. Oh no so it's a tale of you.
• 30:45
  He's going all sigh harness, the excuse of Trot out.
• 30:48
  My story of why this is such a great piece of TV University.
• 30:52
  First year communal living room in Halls of residence.
• 30:55
  Put this on the TV While others were in the room chatting about
• 30:58
  other stuff. Every so often one or two of
• 31:01
  them would watch briefly by the time to shouted.
• 31:04
  She's go at the end of part 2. All of them had stopped talking
• 31:09
  and were watching and they all wanted to know what happened
• 31:12
  next. They watch the rest of it and
• 31:14
  said they enjoyed. Dit, no, new fans were created
• 31:17
  that day, but it was a lovely moment with non-fan friends and
• 31:21
  remains, one of my favorite who related memories almost 25 years
• 31:26
  on the writing, the design, the performances made for something
• 31:29
  special, that captivated, a new audiences decades after its
• 31:34
  first showing. So that makes it a classic.
• 31:37
  Oh yeah. Well that is that is a brave
• 31:39
  thing to do in that kind of communal setting particularly.
• 31:42
  If it's early on in University, you don't know people very well
• 31:44
  to share. A bit of Television that way.
• 31:47
  I remember University trying to get a couple of my mates to
• 31:51
  watch Babylon 5 and that wasn't happening.
• 31:54
  They couldn't get past, the are Cuts.
• 31:56
  Unfortunately, I'll say the CGI blimey.
• 32:01
  Okay, Lou else if we got here? Hang on, we have God.
• 32:05
  Oh, Brendan Jones are all of you, Brendan Russell Hunters
• 32:10
  accents lips and episode for. When he holds up an explosive to
• 32:13
  tution says, we might get a chance.
• 32:15
  Chance to use one of these conscious character moment or
• 32:19
  actors flub. Hang on, where is Russell hunter
• 32:23
  from is because I pick earning him, I think he's from this
• 32:27
  area. Yeah, Rosewood.
• 32:28
  So I picked up my get a chance to use one of these which is an
• 32:35
  accent II, adore that accent and I once went on a training a
• 32:42
  training thing to Coventry and I was out and I went out During
• 32:45
  one of the breaks and went to the shop around the shops.
• 32:48
  And I had a wonderful moment. I held the door, open for
• 32:51
  someone and they said, thank you how she star.
• 32:54
  Yes, sir Gregory ours are cardboard shoes, the future.
• 33:03
  We should be aspiring to. Well having I've just been I've
• 33:09
  just been shopping for a couple of days walking around Hills in
• 33:12
  the eye. So I'll say no.
• 33:14
  Yeah, no. A Cossack a channel special that
• 33:17
  foil around the edge, no way up. I probably can speak some heroin
• 33:21
  in some way and I hear foils very useful.
• 33:23
  So you could say, I was a part of this shit that those slippers
• 33:28
  kept falling apart, and if they'd known the slippers would
• 33:30
  have been on the screen so much. They'd have done differently but
• 33:33
  here Fraser agree. Also ask what makes a Chris
• 33:36
  bouches story Stand Out amongst its peers what makes it stand
• 33:41
  out amongst its peers in this season.
• 33:45
  What So it's this face of evil. It does he do another doctor?
• 33:49
  He's it was the fender all is it?
• 33:50
  Or am I wrong? It should have been done face of
• 33:53
  evil. It was very obvious to people.
• 33:55
  So what it's the dialogue that really stands out it's because
• 34:02
  even in real Defender, which is slightly less of that.
• 34:06
  Kind of people. People get having a go at each
• 34:09
  other. You've still got its Adam called
• 34:11
  be and my head zips up the back. Yeah, He's so good and I know
• 34:18
  I've heard that he mixed them all from Cowboy films.
• 34:21
  These amazing one-liners. But really that was it, what
• 34:26
  sort of corpse is it a dead one? What other thought is there?
• 34:32
  But the other thing about those three stories, the other really
• 34:34
  good thing about those three stories is that they don't feel
• 34:37
  like things you've seen before. So they take a lot of different
• 34:41
  tropes from a lot of different areas and they mash them
• 34:44
  together. So This, there's no way that
• 34:50
  there's no story that's like face of evil.
• 34:54
  I like, what is even vaguely like that?
• 34:56
  There's no statement of the fendall is a bit Gothic horror
• 35:00
  Rican food, Louis, but it does so many different, you know, I
• 35:03
  need to have the equator Mass kind of influence, but then
• 35:07
  several other influences as well.
• 35:08
  So he just gets everything to be bonding Port Adelaide Zynga
• 35:11
  lines. So we want from Chris and he
• 35:13
  does it so well. I always say I'll do some ads.
• 35:18
  His stunning characterization offering face of evil robots,
• 35:23
  death and image of defender, or I mean it goes, so hand-in-hand
• 35:27
  with the dialogue, doesn't it? But I just think he gets his
• 35:30
  characters spot on their people. You want to be around?
• 35:34
  Yeah, it's character the character character character.
• 35:36
  That's where I'm that's what made Blake's 7.
• 35:39
  Such a huge success. Why people loved it?
• 35:41
  Any Wonder production value? I'll tell ya it was those
• 35:44
  people. All you wanted.
• 35:45
  It's a matter of they're facing up to a lot of space columns as
• 35:48
  from the next Universe. Take a shit about those people
• 35:52
  and most of the time it's because they didn't get on
• 35:54
  rather than because they did when they were their own the
• 35:56
  space colleges they got the line Avon this is stupid.
• 36:00
  When has that ever stopped us also important point.
• 36:07
  We just said, Chris Belcher a lot there are people out there
• 36:10
  who pronounce it. Chris Boucher else you want to
• 36:13
  say to those people if you pronounce it, Chris.
• 36:15
  Boucher then you have to pronounce Brian crouches named
• 36:18
  Brian crew. Sure it's true.
• 36:21
  Absolutely. So anyway you can use ever made
• 36:24
  sense. Honestly that's what is the
• 36:28
  quite one more because about shall I know you ready?
• 36:32
  Yeah, go for it. Bad break.
• 36:34
  The way to make a fruitcake. One more question here, and that
• 36:42
  is from sigh heart. And he says blazing rods.
• 36:47
  Where the seventh sounds? Is that robot Joe?
• 36:51
  He's right behind you.