Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Paul Brisco on Decoy Collecting, Duck Hunting & Canadian Waterfowl History (Ep 798)

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Paul Brisco on Decoy Collecting, Duck Hunting & Canadian Waterfowl History (Ep 798) · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• 0:00
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• 0:31
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• 0:38
  Katie Burke: Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Burke. And today on the show, I have decoy collector, Paul Brisco. Welcome to the show, Paul.
• 0:46
  Paul Brisco: Thank you, Katie.
• 0:47
  Katie Burke: So this is exciting. So I've known you well, we were just talking about I've I met you at one of the very first shows I came to, I
• 0:53
  Paul Brisco: guess, in Paul. Seven or eight years ago. Yeah.
• 0:55
  Katie Burke: Yeah. So we are here at the North American Decoy Collectors Show in a very different setup. We are in a hotel rooms doing this, which is very unique about this show. How long have you been, like, coming to this show and doing this?
• 1:09
  Paul Brisco: I've coming to this show for forty something years since about since about '83, '84. Yeah.
• 1:17
  Katie Burke: Were you setting up rooms in the beginning or you just like Yeah.
• 1:21
  Paul Brisco: Right right from the beginning, they've always had the room to room show situation. Yeah. And and the first show that I went to was at Pheasant Run.
• 1:31
  Katie Burke: Right.
• 1:32
  Paul Brisco: That was one of the first years there. And but there were other show other show places back before that as other parts of Chicago too.
• 1:42
  Katie Burke: You don't meet too many people that have gone to the other ones before that.
• 1:45
  Paul Brisco: No. That's right. They're they're falling by the wayside.
• 1:50
  Katie Burke: Yes. Alright. Well, let's go more into your background. So a lot not everybody that collects as a hunter, but what is your, like, background into the outdoors and hunting and how did that start for you?
• 2:05
  Paul Brisco: Yeah. I lived in in in Chatham, grew up in Chatham, Ontario. And, my father was a duck hunter and my grandfather was a duck hunter, so I was, introduced to duck hunting early. I went in the boat with my father long before I was could legally hunt and simply enjoyed listening to the ducks in the dark as you as you battled in in your in your boat and Imagine now. Yeah.
• 2:35
  And so I I hunted as as early as I could get a license and hunt.
• 2:40
  Katie Burke: Yeah.
• 2:40
  Paul Brisco: And I've hunted ever since. And, certainly, in in in Chatham. And and in Chatham, you hunt both Lake Saint Clair and to some degree, Rondeau Bay, which is, out by Lake Erie. And, and then as you get older, you travel a little bit sometimes to hunt. So I've hunted all over, you know, Canada, many parts of Canada.
• 3:09
  Katie Burke: Yeah.
• 3:09
  Paul Brisco: And Long Long Point Bay as well with friends down there. So so yeah.
• 3:14
  Katie Burke: So you did some DU in your DU time in your hit pass? I
• 3:19
  Paul Brisco: bet I was the founding chairman of the Chatham Dinner, which was the third committee in Canada. Okay. And the fellows that started the first committee in Canada, Duncan Sinclair and Herb Kebble were from Aylmer and they had the the original dinner was Tilsonburg and then Port Rowan.
• 3:45
  Katie Burke: Yeah.
• 3:46
  Paul Brisco: And past president, oh, from from Buffalo. And why do I forget his name? That's crazy because I knew him very well. But, basically, he was he he was a member of one of the hunting clubs down there and and basically got them involved. After that, I ended up being on the DU Canada board for for a stint four or five years.
• 4:15
  Yeah. And because I was a real estate broker, I ended up specializing or having a strong interest in hunting club properties
• 4:26
  Katie Burke: Mhmm.
• 4:26
  Paul Brisco: And sold quite a number of hunting club properties both in in in the Detroit River and Lake Saint Clair and Long Point, and much involved and did some consulting work for DU with respect to conservation as well.
• 4:48
  Katie Burke: It was a big part
• 4:49
  Paul Brisco: of I've had the a long involvement with DU, been a life member and and known a lot of great Ducks Unlimited people from all over the country.
• 5:00
  Katie Burke: Yeah. It's funny when and I think like Mike on his podcast, he deals with it more because the DU Canada and DU Inc, which is what we refer to as United States, like I mean, they work so closely together, but then it's so very different because DU Canada is much more into the property land side of conservation easement side of things. I mean, we are too, but they're not raising the dollars just like we are on this side. Right?
• 5:29
  Paul Brisco: Like Well, and then in the
• 5:30
  Katie Burke: beginning sending dollars to them.
• 5:31
  Paul Brisco: In the beginning, all the money went to Canada. DU didn't
• 5:35
  Katie Burke: till 1984.
• 5:36
  Paul Brisco: That's right. And and then that changed. And that that ended up changing the way DU Canada had to work somewhat too.
• 5:43
  Katie Burke: Right. That makes sense.
• 5:44
  Paul Brisco: Yeah. Yeah. So, it's all part of
• 5:48
  Katie Burke: But the prairies know no, bounds. Well, the ducks
• 5:52
  Paul Brisco: the ducks Neither ducks the ducks. Don't care about the border and the leash,
• 5:56
  Katie Burke: you know. Yeah. So the pothole prairie system goes on both sides.
• 5:59
  Paul Brisco: So That's right. Yeah.
• 6:00
  Katie Burke: Got a nest everywhere. Yeah. No. That's really interesting. Yeah.
• 6:03
  We were talking about that. Yes. This is getting off topic, but we're talking about I think they were talking about Montana and hunting and stuff, and I was like, well, there was fires and stuff, and that's not great. Like, in Canada, that's not great for your ducks. No.
• 6:15
  So, great for your ducks.
• 6:17
  Paul Brisco: No.
• 6:17
  Katie Burke: So, we're talking about that, and it's been a rough couple. There's good in good spots and bad spots, but there's been a rough couple of summers here.
• 6:25
  Paul Brisco: Yeah.
• 6:26
  Katie Burke: So but anyway, so to go back, like, when do you get introduced? Because hunting is can be completely separate from
• 6:35
  Paul Brisco: Decoy collecting?
• 6:36
  Katie Burke: Yes. Yeah. So, when do you get introduced to old decoys?
• 6:40
  Paul Brisco: Well, I always had an interest in in old things.
• 6:44
  Katie Burke: Okay.
• 6:45
  Paul Brisco: I collected coins and stamps when I was very, very young with grandfather influence and liked old I had some old wine glasses that I enjoyed using.
• 7:01
  Katie Burke: Always a collector.
• 7:02
  Paul Brisco: But when I ran into a decoy for sale at an antique show Mhmm. For $40, and I basically said to the dealer, how can a decoy be worth $40? And he says, well, he says, they're very, very sought after. There's a whole museum for them, which was the Shelburne Museum. And he had the Shelburne Museum book with him.
• 7:30
  So I bought the decoy and the Shelburne Museum book.
• 7:33
  Katie Burke: Okay.
• 7:34
  Paul Brisco: And that started me in my path.
• 7:36
  Katie Burke: What did you buy? Do you know?
• 7:38
  Paul Brisco: Yeah. That was actually an Art Chilton Redhead and Art Chilton was from Toronto.
• 7:44
  Katie Burke: Okay.
• 7:44
  Paul Brisco: And as time moved on, you know, I met Art Chilton, I made a point. I've always been interested in research and getting to the bottom of the truth on things, I guess you could So I tracked Art Chilton down and talked to him and bought decoys from him and invited him down to hunt at my little hunting club that I had and started on that path and ran into other people that collected decoys relatively quickly both because of my Ducks Unlimited involvement.
• 8:21
  Katie Burke: Mhmm. That makes sense. Yeah.
• 8:24
  Paul Brisco: And I think our first our first DU dinner was in probably seventy nine, eighty, eighty one, something like that in that time frame. And, we used to have, duck shoots donated to our DU dinner.
• 8:45
  Katie Burke: Yep.
• 8:46
  Paul Brisco: And so, I would buy some of those and and continue my adventures that way, so.
• 8:54
  Katie Burke: Yeah. And then you'd meet more people. So, and that's always been one that's super interesting to me is like the Ducks Unlimited people and the decoy people. Now, do mix Mhmm. But not as much as you would think they mix.
• 9:08
  Paul Brisco: Well, and that's changed over
• 9:09
  Katie Burke: It has.
• 9:10
  Paul Brisco: Changed over time because there's
• 9:11
  Katie Burke: But in Canada, was it the same way or do they mix more in Canada? It's You have more decoy
• 9:17
  Paul Brisco: It was kind of the same. There were, you know, most decoy collectors in those days did have an interest in in hunting. Okay. A few didn't, but most did. It's changed a little bit because there's less people learning to hunt and that's all part of the changing life.
• 9:39
  Katie Burke: Yeah. And things it's hard I mean, it's hard to own property.
• 9:43
  Paul Brisco: Well, and and everything's everything's changed so much in in value. Right. So it was one thing to start. I had I had pickers bringing me carloads of decoys at $10 a piece and then you learn to tell the difference and over time that's what going to shows is all about. The first show that I went to was ten years after I started to collect and, I had thousands of decoys then, quite literally three or 4,000, and I it was going to shows that that I learned to tell the difference and that was important to get rid of some so you could afford those that were more exciting, I guess you could So, there's a lot to it.
• 10:31
  Katie Burke: Okay, yes, so that's a little bit different. So, were you in the beginning just kinda taking anything you can get your hands on? How did you just start to change to what you collect and like get and what you're most interested in? I How's that evolved? Yeah.
• 10:50
  Paul Brisco: I always had an interest in getting to the, you know, knowledge of things. That's why I bought, you know, the Shawburn Museum book. I Right. Ended up visiting the Shawburn Museum more than once. I ended up knowing other collectors, subscribing to the magazines, all of the magazines, all of the books, collected all of the books.
• 11:14
  So, it's all a matter of continuing to accumulate knowledge and build from there.
• 11:22
  Katie Burke: Okay. And then, I mean, I'm guessing you went for Canadian decoys because you're Canadian.
• 11:28
  Paul Brisco: Well, yeah, what happens in reality, most collectors started regionally collecting Yep. Decoys from their own region.
• 11:38
  Katie Burke: Or some connection or something. Yeah.
• 11:40
  Paul Brisco: Because of what they ran into, but also then they learned about other makers in that area and developed an interest in their own region. That expands a little bit as you move on and start to go to show and get introduced to more things, but everyone still has a fondness for where their own interests started
• 12:00
  Katie Burke: Right.
• 12:00
  Paul Brisco: To a a great, you know, pretty a pretty great degree. And and I think that is also fostered by actually hunting yourself. I think you probably get less of that inclination with collectors that don't hunt.
• 12:16
  Katie Burke: Mhmm.
• 12:17
  Paul Brisco: They don't seem
• 12:17
  Katie Burke: Interesting. To have the same
• 12:19
  Paul Brisco: the same tie to it.
• 12:20
  Katie Burke: Yeah. That's an interesting take. I've never thought of it that way. Because, yeah, well, that's what's so it's interesting being from somewhere that has no decoys and people ask me what I like Mhmm. Because I don't have that tie.
• 12:34
  Yeah. Because we don't have decoys from Mississippi or Arkansas or Tennessee. Like, there's just it's a dry spot for old decoys. Yeah. So, I don't really have that.
• 12:46
  So, I tend to go by two different types. I either go form or I go folksy. I kinda like those are the two different types I like, but yeah.
• 12:56
  Paul Brisco: Well, and and basically, you know, form is is a big part of every decoy and and then, you know, paint and condition. You being from Arkansas Mississippi. Mississippi, there's more call collectors there than there are decoy collectors. There's very few call collectors up in Canada.
• 13:22
  Katie Burke: Right. So, yeah, that's interesting. Because like and I always wonder like why did they make like, I know why they make calls in Arkansas, why they were more important because you call ducks more than you decoy ducks there.
• 13:35
  Paul Brisco: Well, it's because the ducks couldn't see the Exactly.
• 13:38
  Katie Burke: By the time they got close enough in the trees, they
• 13:40
  Paul Brisco: were they were good.
• 13:41
  Katie Burke: That's right. So it wasn't a big deal. But yeah. But then up there, like, you know, it's funny how it goes away. Like, decoys become more prominent versus the calls become less prominent and that changes obviously now with modern hunting, but it's very different.
• 13:55
  Mhmm. And you needed more decoys because we I just talked to I interviewed Chad Jeradakis and I was like, talking about Chesapeake Bay areas like, because they needed so many decoys, like, and how does that affect value and stuff? Whereas it depends on where you are, what how many there is.
• 14:12
  Paul Brisco: Right? Well, yeah. And in in at at one point in time, certainly in in Canada, we had limits on how many decoys you could use.
• 14:21
  Katie Burke: Okay.
• 14:21
  Paul Brisco: And they don't have that any longer, but they did for some time and at one point in time they had stronger limits on how far your decoys could be from shore and and that's changed as well. A lot of things have changed over time.
• 14:37
  Katie Burke: Yeah. So how many decoys would they have limited you to?
• 14:40
  Paul Brisco: 50 in those days.
• 14:41
  Katie Burke: 50. I missed a lot of decoys. Oh, someone from Mississippi, that's a lot.
• 14:45
  Paul Brisco: Well, yeah. You
• 14:46
  Katie Burke: don't and and
• 14:47
  Paul Brisco: and puddle duck shooting, you don't
• 14:48
  Katie Burke: Yeah. We like it doesn't. Yeah.
• 14:50
  Paul Brisco: Didn't really need it. Yeah. But divers divers should And tend to have of course, if you're depending on where you're at, if you're hoping to attract more different species, then you do use different specie decoys. So you might have some divers out and then off to the side, a group of puddled ducks and so So,
• 15:13
  Katie Burke: okay. Have these are sound like stupid questions to people, but because I just know nothing when it comes to Canada. I know a little bit, like I know there's certain carvers I know about like I know like Warren and stuff like that, but okay. When it comes Canada's a very big country. And, they just lump them all as Canadian decoys when they when you come down here for like sales and stuff and auctions, when they put them in the back of the book, they lump them all together.
• 15:38
  And then you read through and it says, you know, Toronto or Ontario or those things. So, explain to me, which obviously they're and they vary a lot. Do they have the same like, regional variants? Like, is there a style that changes in the same way as it does, like, from like a Midwest to a East Coast? Like, how does that work?
• 15:59
  Paul Brisco: There are there's I mean, there's there's books on most regions and then there's the traditions and wood is the whole country. Yep. So that's the one book that you can go to and see chapters on
• 16:10
  Katie Burke: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Paul Brisco: Different parts rate from coast to coast. But but yeah. And each each region has species that are more prominent there. Even in Ontario, Eastern Ontario has different species prominence than than in Southwestern Ontario. So it varies from from, you know, from place to place quite a little bit.
• 16:36
  Katie Burke: Yeah, because then you have your flat bottom decoys versus like your hardier decoys,
• 16:40
  Paul Brisco: that changes things. Some of that has to do with form and function. Form follows function is one of the old standard phrases and that really relates to almost everything. It relates to decoys, really it's even paddles. You can look at different paddles and they need short paddles for some things and long paddles for other things and very long paddles paddles for other things and it's the same with with birds.
• 17:08
  Some places they needed to be heavier than than others would have to do with maybe wind and water in the marsh. They don't have the waves that they have out in the lake for instance. One of the most important things for telling decoys apart is to look at the bottom because the bottom is where they were ballasted and you can often tell by the way they were ballasted, gives you an idea on the region that they come from, because different places develop their own style of ballast.
• 17:39
  Katie Burke: Right, because they're dealing with different conditions.
• 17:41
  Paul Brisco: Yep, that's right.
• 17:42
  Katie Burke: Yeah, that makes sense. It's just, yeah, and I noticed, but yeah, that always bugs me about how they lump them all in one category.
• 17:52
  Paul Brisco: Well, that's to some degree the auction houses trying to make it easier for them to do their job. Yeah. And some of them vary, some of them lump them together in their catalogs and some of them have them all split up through their catalogs so that it's not as easier for you to find what you're interested in.
• 18:12
  Katie Burke: Right. Cause, well, thing I guess that bothers me about it is like, cause they put them all in one place, but I would think someone who collects Maine decoys would also collect the Canadian decoys like Prince Edward, like, if you go up that side of the coast
• 18:26
  Paul Brisco: Mhmm.
• 18:27
  Katie Burke: Versus like, if you're collecting Great Lakes decoys, you're probably going to stick to the Canadian ones too that are within that area. Like, it's it doesn't as we said before, like, the ducks don't have a boundary, so neither does the style in a way, like, you're it still will move up because the cunning is similar. Right?
• 18:45
  Paul Brisco: Yeah. Although you found some of the some of the great makers would get orders for decoys from different parts of the country.
• 18:53
  Katie Burke: Right.
• 18:54
  Paul Brisco: And and would vary both the way they the way they carved those birds and the way, you know, the the way they presented them. And again, the ballasting the ballasting was not usually done by the maker. The ballasting was usually done by the hunter.
• 19:12
  Katie Burke: Yeah. Is that frustrating as a collector and like the historian side of it when you find decoys by a maker that are not of like when they made these custom things and they're like, it's not what they typically Well, would not really. Or is it more like a fun thing? Like, okay, let's figure out why.
• 19:30
  Paul Brisco: Well, yeah, and again, I often say when you're looking at decoys, you're not looking for necessarily for similarities to decide who they are made by because the really great makers often changed the way they were doing their decoys because if they were making decoys for different people, they'd either be, you know, doing it specifically as to how they asked or specifically to fit a situation.
• 20:01
  Katie Burke: Right.
• 20:01
  Paul Brisco: So, you see more variety with the great makers. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 20:07
  Katie Burke: Yeah, that makes sense too, because then have the, a great maker would have the flexibility, they wouldn't be set in their way in a certain way.
• 20:13
  Paul Brisco: That's right. Yeah.
• 20:14
  Katie Burke: But you see that as well in certain people.
• 20:16
  Paul Brisco: Well, you see some, there's no doubt, we know that some of these makers knew each other and interacted with each other. I often also say that most of what we know about decoy makers is intelligent guesswork because none of us really met any of these people. So we're going by what somebody told us, somebody told them because they knew, because he knew. Right.
• 20:46
  Katie Burke: It's all Mostly, all they have of records is like the census records. There's no actual written records.
• 20:52
  Paul Brisco: That's right.
• 20:53
  Katie Burke: So, we're just going through like, yeah, through like a telephone chain.
• 20:57
  Paul Brisco: Well, and there's there's no doubt that if you're if you collect for a long, long time, you recognize that some guys know what they're talking about and some don't. Yeah.
• 21:08
  Katie Burke: That's true. Especially if you've been around going to these shows, can, yeah, you can probably see a lot of that as well, like what's going around. So, like, well then, let's say the Ontario area, which is where your book is on, right? It's on Ontario. Are collectors in the same is it in the same sense like they're they're in pockets in regions?
• 21:30
  Like, is that how it is or they're kind of
• 21:31
  Paul Brisco: Yeah.
• 21:32
  Katie Burke: Where the duck on East?
• 21:33
  Paul Brisco: You mean collectors is Yeah. What
• 21:34
  Katie Burke: Well, or the the carvers themselves in our
• 21:36
  Paul Brisco: Carvers too, generally speaking. Yeah. And they, you know, there were two, again, two types of carvers. There were carvers that carved only for their own use. Yep.
• 21:46
  And they may have had a few pride out of them by friends or gifted to friends, but then there were carvers that ended up finding a market for what they were doing and they enjoyed doing it, so it might not even be a profession, this might be something they enjoyed doing and getting compensated for it and passing So it there was a fair bit of that as well.
• 22:12
  Katie Burke: And you had to have market hunters as well at a certain point, didn't you?
• 22:15
  Paul Brisco: Well, mean,
• 22:15
  Katie Burke: how does that work?
• 22:16
  Paul Brisco: Yeah, the market hunters were earlier.
• 22:19
  Katie Burke: Yep.
• 22:20
  Paul Brisco: And they certainly used lots and lots of decoys and they would buy them from largely from the guys that made them commercially to sell. And and they they used different methodology to hunting and shooting because they were killing a lot more ducks for the market. There was
• 22:41
  Katie Burke: always Where are they sending things to like Toronto? Where are they sending ducks to in that area?
• 22:48
  Paul Brisco: They were sending ducks to any of the big markets.
• 22:51
  Katie Burke: Yeah.
• 22:52
  Paul Brisco: There used to be a flow of ducks to all the big cities, certainly to New York Yeah,
• 23:06
  Katie Burke: I knew all that. So they're still doing like because they have the train system still going Yeah, and everything's
• 23:10
  Paul Brisco: no, all Yeah.
• 23:11
  Katie Burke: Yeah, okay. That's what I was thinking, like, it a different market or is it the same? And I'm getting Well, they obviously quit sooner because the laws were faster there, right, than they were for us? Were stricter on them than they were in
• 23:25
  Paul Brisco: Look at the laws. Well, the migratory tree, came
• 23:28
  Katie Burke: in That's the same time.
• 23:29
  Paul Brisco: Between the exact same time. Yeah.
• 23:31
  Katie Burke: But, you know, it was a little loosey goosey there for a little bit.
• 23:34
  Paul Brisco: Well, that's right. Yeah. And, there's no doubt that one of the old phrases is enforcement lags law. Right. So, it takes a while enforcement to catch up with the They changing were doing I the same stuff
• 23:49
  Katie Burke: just wondered because I guess my question with that was going back to the DU thing, is like, which that would have been, I don't know, twenty years, a little less than twenty years later from migratory No, thirty years. Twenty years. And going from the Migratory Bird Act and then to like DU and all that.
• 24:08
  Paul Brisco: To DU Inc, yeah.
• 24:09
  Katie Burke: Yeah. So, that would have been about twenty years. So, that time period, I was just wondering if the the formation of DU and the work they were doing, at what point does that like affect kind of the law enforcement side of it too? Like, does that keep the restriction of it? I don't know.
• 24:27
  Are y'all were they more aware? Because I just think about here is like, we were just sending our money, Like, we weren't none of that was happening in our backyard. Like No. But they there
• 24:38
  Paul Brisco: were there were people that were that were learning and passing it
• 24:43
  Katie Burke: on. Right.
• 24:45
  Paul Brisco: So they were, you know, they were and a lot of their first action was up in the Delta and there were a lot of Americans involved in the whole Delta region and a lot of Americans involved in all throughout the Canadian West in hunting. I
• 25:04
  Katie Burke: just wanted to add, because it's just the having it happen in your backyard versus hearing about it, know, like you're more exposed to it in a way. It's just different. And, like, because I wonder and was there and this is just thinking about it now, because there's all this stupid animosity with, like, all the things they think we do that we don't do. So, was there, like, animosity for that conservation work there with the property and stuff, like with restoring property and changing, taking it out of public hands and things like that?
• 25:38
  Paul Brisco: Not really between Canadians and Americans. Unlimited. Ducks Unlimited, no, not really. And Ducks Unlimited has always been good at basically saying it's peace and speaking, you
• 25:52
  Katie Burke: know, speaking
• 25:54
  Paul Brisco: as position for the ducks. Right. And there's no, I don't think there's been any animosity showing there that I can see it all, but
• 26:06
  Katie Burke: I guess the reason I asked that question is, with today is, I guess sometimes when, I guess at that point, we were doing a really good at communicating what we were doing. Because I think sometimes when people see things change, they get scared that it's going to change into a way that they won't be able to either hunt in that hunt, and their hunting will change, or their the ducks will change, or something like that'll change, and I was just wondering like, during that I guess during that time though, to think about it, you'd just gone through the Dust Bowl, like up there. They probably were looking for change.
• 26:41
  Paul Brisco: Well, yeah. I mean, and and the change happens over time and you don't always you don't always recognize it when it's happening. Sometimes you don't recognize it till after it's happened. Yeah. So so certainly we've got climate change going on now,
• 26:58
  Katie Burke: and
• 26:59
  Paul Brisco: it's very disputable as to what really is creating it all.
• 27:04
  Katie Burke: Right. Yeah. So No. I think about that now. Was like, maybe at that point, yeah, was thinking about they had It's been so many hard years for history right there, and then they're like, see people incoming and doing work
• 27:16
  Paul Brisco: to help
• 27:17
  Katie Burke: bring it back. That probably was more of a positive experience than I would have thought about. But, yeah, anyway, back to decoys. I was just curious. I haven't thought about that.
• 27:36
  VO: Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast, sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.
• 27:51
  Katie Burke: Can you talk a little bit about some of the decoys and kind of explain one of the things I like we did earlier is, like, I did it with, we did it with Josh. He kinda explained, like, how his style had changed using decoys, then with, we did it a minute ago with with Bill. He was, like, talking kind of like what makes a Dodge decoy. So, like, is there any way we could grab some decoys and kinda like talk through, and I can ask a question before we do it, but some of the decoys and like what makes it wherever it's from
• 28:23
  Paul Brisco: or whatever. Where it's from? Yeah. Well, basically
• 28:25
  Katie Burke: Well, like, yeah.
• 28:26
  Paul Brisco: Yeah. Generally speaking, form follows function, used before.
• 28:33
  Katie Burke: So, we'll go into
• 28:34
  Paul Brisco: that. So, a lot of decoys, hollow decoys became important both because they were light to and because they rode the water well, if they were properly ballasted and it would depend upon where they were being used, what kind of water they were being used in, rough water or calm water.
• 29:00
  Katie Burke: And
• 29:03
  Paul Brisco: so there's a lot of variety that way. You find more hollow decoys in some areas than others. Almost all of the decoys in Hamilton, for instance, are hollow. My book was on Hamilton and Kent, the decoys of Wentworth and Kent, because, I was from Kent and my father-in-law who I hunted with was from was from Hamilton. So that's where that came from.
• 29:29
  Right. But the Hamilton decoys, they were largely, screen shooters, which meant that they that they basically put their lake decoys out in the lake, had their boat onshore. When ducks dropped in the decoys, they would put their boat in and push pull it out towards the ducks sitting in the decoys, but they they liked light decoys, they rode well in the in the water, they were, you know, they're putting 50 decoys in their boats, so there was it was a lot lighter than putting in big solid decoys that were a lot of work. They had to pick their decoys up every day when they were done, so the hollowness flowed into their use quite readily, whereas some areas like old like Rondo Bay, a good example, where it was very territorial, there was a small lake, The property owners around the perimeter of the lake had their own spots that they had control of. They a lot of them put their decoys out and left them out for the whole season because they had control of that specific spot, so they were all solid body decoys and very few hollow decoys there.
• 30:50
  Katie Burke: How did survive those decoys?
• 30:53
  Paul Brisco: Well, and again, basically there's very there's not a lot of a lot of great decoys, great condition decoys left from there. That's the same as the Southern States. All down the Southern Seaboard, the decoys got very, very hard use. There's very few original paint decoys.
• 31:13
  Katie Burke: Yep.
• 31:13
  Paul Brisco: Whereas you get up to Illinois in the There are the And there's lots of beautiful
• 31:19
  Katie Burke: Still water
• 31:20
  Paul Brisco: on the marsh. Yeah. That's right. Yep.
• 31:22
  Katie Burke: Now that makes sense. Okay, this is a crazy question, but I don't think so. But Canadian decoys are always They're not they're not very bright colored.
• 31:35
  Paul Brisco: Well, and that's I'm not sure that's really the case. Canvas backs are white. Now, as a matter of fact, it's interesting as well because with Camusbacks, as they get into the mature plumage in the winter, they get very white. Early season Camusbacks are actually gray and more malted and some of the hunters in certain areas would change their paint Okay. With the seasons, so.
• 32:07
  Katie Burke: Yeah. That is why that didn't occur to me, you're hunting them in Canada, you're hunting them so much earlier than we are.
• 32:13
  Paul Brisco: That's right.
• 32:13
  Katie Burke: So, yeah, you'd have a different color Burke.
• 32:15
  Paul Brisco: And the same with blue winged teal. Blue winged teal don't get their plumage until later in the season, they leave Canada early, so you see very few teal decoys, working teal decoys that were drakes, they were all because even the drakes didn't have their plumage.
• 32:34
  Katie Burke: Yeah, their moon shape Yeah. On Yeah. I didn't even think about that, but duh, that's of course that's what it is, because yeah, you're hunting them early. Yeah. Because we always have I had somebody come visit, I was always young, he and was from Kennedy, came down to hunt with us in Mississippi one year, and we shot a mallard and he was like, what is wrong with this mallard?
• 32:54
  It's huge. Was like, well, that's what they look like down here. They've been eating for a long time.
• 33:00
  Paul Brisco: Yeah. Well, once they get there, they're not going any further, so they just No. They just
• 33:05
  Katie Burke: hit fat. Yeah. But he was so shocked by how big they were. He was like, this is like a goose. And I was like, that's just what we got down here.
• 33:14
  But, I didn't even think about that. Of course, yeah, you're hunting them early, so you they don't need to be brightly colored because you're not hunting them. And honestly, were talking about this earlier with someone else, like, know, who you talk about here at the show, you talk about decoys with so many people. But, the ducks, I don't know, like, so, you know, they've gotten the thing where ducks, would they come into just black decoys? Like, does does the pain matter to what we think it matters?
• 33:39
  Paul Brisco: Well, and and that again depends on what different people think. I I once had old timers say to me when I was collecting decoys young and I hunted, but they said they don't they don't give a damn. See? And they had some of the decoys painted with pink polka dots just to to prove their point, kind of they made a made a joke of it.
• 34:03
  Katie Burke: Yeah. And they make the decoys.
• 34:05
  Paul Brisco: And there's lots of guys that put out just black decoys. There's no doubt.
• 34:09
  Katie Burke: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Paul Brisco: By the same token, there's some days that the birds are extremely wary and some days they aren't wary wary at all. Yeah. And it has to do with lighting, has to do with wind direction, has to do with weather expectations, might have to do with how hungry they are at the moment, but there's a whole lot of little things that affect things differently.
• 34:32
  Katie Burke: Yeah, didn't even think about that, but you're right. That's I didn't even think about Yeah, of course they're dark because the ducks are dark. What have we not talked about that you wanna talk about? Well,
• 34:44
  Paul Brisco: I'm not really sure what we haven't talked about that we need to talk about. I think that
• 34:50
  Katie Burke: What's interesting?
• 34:51
  Paul Brisco: I think that's, from a collecting perspective, we are finding fewer the auction houses say they've got as many new young bidders as ever or even more. They think that they see a lot of growth in their market. It's interesting because we don't see those people coming to our shows. Yeah. So times have changed on how people learn, on how they on how they spend their money, and all of those things are are changing.
• 35:28
  It's I mean, I like to encourage more young collectors. I think they are out there.
• 35:35
  Katie Burke: Oh, I think
• 35:36
  Paul Brisco: I would just like to say to them that the way that you really, really learn is to spend some time going to shows and touching and feeling decoys that you don't have to buy
• 35:48
  Katie Burke: Yep.
• 35:49
  Paul Brisco: To touch and feel, and talking to people that are happy to share their knowledge and experience, and you can still wait and buy your decoys online at auction, But if that's what you there's a lot of a lot of free information out there to be picked up by going to shows and having a and having a peek.
• 36:07
  Katie Burke: Yeah. We talked about that too and that's one of the big things that we want to do here is to promote people coming to the shows because there's no better education than you can get to actually seeing That's these right. Birds, because it's like looking at it I mean, you can look at a picture in the catalog that we got in the mail and we'll go see them tonight and they'll be a completely different color. Film. That's right.
• 36:34
  Yeah, they will because the way photography works. So, you really need to come and see them, you need to see what they're and you might think you have a favorite in a book or a catalog, but you sometimes you walk in and you see a bird and you're like, that. I like that.
• 36:47
  Paul Brisco: Well, today, we're to the preview of the of the first half of the of the Cook collection. Yep. And Jim and Dan Cook, that's the most fabulous collection to date that we are aware of that's ever been put together. Yet going to this event, you can see it, you can touch it, you can feel it, you can learn from it, and you don't have to necessarily buy a thing.
• 37:16
  Katie Burke: Nope.
• 37:16
  Paul Brisco: And that's the, you know, the beauty of the whole show.
• 37:22
  Katie Burke: And I would say the second thing that you added to that, that's also so important and it literally is in every single interview that I have with collectors, is the community and getting to know the people who collect and like collectors are open to talk to you, to help you, especially if you're interested.
• 37:39
  Paul Brisco: No, that's right.
• 37:40
  Katie Burke: That's very I mean, we talked about when I met you, that was when I first started coming here. I did not I did not grow up in a decoy. I grew up in a Ducks Unlimited house. Mhmm. I did not grow in a decoy house and I did not know any of this.
• 37:53
  Now, I have an art background and I love things like this, so this wasn't like a hard leap for me. But I've never I I grew up in DU and a lot of people that listen to this will understand what it's like to be a part of the Ducks Unlimited. If you knew what you understand too, it's its own
• 38:09
  Paul Brisco: That's right.
• 38:10
  Katie Burke: Family. It's a it's a community of people who have the same interests. Mhmm. This is the same. Mhmm.
• 38:16
  It's the same. It's very similar and it's people want to help each other and they want you to be excited about what they're excited about.
• 38:23
  Paul Brisco: That's right. Yeah.
• 38:23
  Katie Burke: It's a great place.
• 38:24
  Paul Brisco: Happy to help you learn.
• 38:25
  Katie Burke: Yeah. These are great. I learned so much. Said today that I'm gonna put this on here, they're like asking about, like, my job. Was like, this doesn't work.
• 38:36
  Us sitting here talking has not worked for me. This is the best part of what I get to do, so I'm happy to do it.
• 38:42
  Paul Brisco: Yeah. I'm getting near the end of a long journey, but it has been an absolutely miraculously wonderful journey.
• 38:49
  Katie Burke: Yeah. Well, thank you for doing this, Paul.
• 38:51
  Paul Brisco: Oh, you're very welcome. Thank you, Katie.
• 38:53
  Katie Burke: Thank you. Alright. Thanks, Paul, for coming on the show. Thanks to Chris Isaac, our producer, and thanks to you, our listener, for swearing wetlands and waterfowl conservation.
• 39:04
  VO: That's a wrap for today's episode of the Ducks Unlimited Podcast brought to you by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. From post hunt unwinds to celebrations back at camp, Bird Dog delivers award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe, and check out ducks.org/du podcast for more stories, science, and all things waterfowl. Guest opinions are their own and don't necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited.
• 39:29
  Until next time, stay fired up, stay focused, and stay tuned to the Ducks.