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The essentials of the US market · Two in Twenty

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to another episode of AI.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Tweak Field.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the CEO of White Marvel Marketing and also the host of this podcast, which is dedicated to investment marketers.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're talking about the essentials of the US market.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: We've got two great speakers, both have experience looking after European and US marketing for asset managers.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: So they are going to walk us through all the differences between the nature of these two markets.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have Cynthia Hollihan, who's the marketing director for North America at 91, as well as Gabe Altback, who is the president and head of North America at White Marble.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I will pass straight over to the conversation I had with them earlier today.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you both, Gabe and Cynthia, for joining me today.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to talk about other markets than sort of Europe and the UK.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I wondered whether we could start perhaps by just giving a brief overview of the US fundamentals in terms of the market.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe Gabe, you can introduce yourself, kick us off with that, and then we'll come to you, Cynthia, to introduce yourself and add anything else that you you feel pertinent.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, Twink.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Gabe Altbach, I head up White Marble's US business.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: However, before this, I was the head of US marketing for Pioneer Investments, based here in Boston, and then also was in the same role globally, based in Milan initially, and then the UK.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the US market, I'm sure all of you listening, even if you are based in the UK or Europe, know a lot about the US.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll be really brief.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a huge market, right?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's$50 trillion of addressable assets, give or take a few trillion.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Contrast that with Europe, where it's maybe a little more than half that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So 26 to 30 trillion, depending on the day.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Again, in dollar terms of addressable assets.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: A really big market.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's roughly 50-50 between retail stroke wholesale and on the one hand, and institutional on the other.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And in that sense, it's not unlike Europe, I think, in terms of that split by vehicle, it's maybe a third-ish in mutual funds, with the rest in other structures, which is a surprising stat to some, in that there's a lot of US addressable assets that are in institutional certain accounts and collective funds and other types of vehicles.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a little different than Europe, I think.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And Twink, tell me if you have a different number in mind.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think Europe is more like half in terms of use its funds versus other structures.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's that's a bit different.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Passive active is the other big stat, right?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's still kind of by assets 60-40 active to passive, but you know, passive's come on hugely over the last couple of years, more so than in Europe.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And in the equity space, it's 50-50 by assets between um passive uh versus active.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's pretty tough.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you're an active equity manager specialist, that's that's not a great number.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the other the other characteristic is um it's a big market by advisors.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: There are well over a quarter million financial advisors in America, probably 300,000-ish are sort of actively producing advisors.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're focused on going after them, choosing how you segment them and who you target and who you avoid is a big challenge uh for marketers.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's all sorts of other issues around fees and shelf space.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple of highlights, Twink.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Gabe.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Cynthia, how about you perhaps you can introduce yourself and add uh any other thoughts to that?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so Cynthia Hollihan, uh, thanks for having me, Twink.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Always a pleasure to chat.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am the director of marketing for uh North America at 91.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 91 was previously in Best Tech Asset Management, so some of your audience may know us from there.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: We are an independent active asset manager with about 128 billion under management.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, a large portion of that is in Europe.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So while I sit in New York and I'm marketing to the US audience, uh, and we'll get into this more as we go, um, I'm in a unique position where I am uh our home is Europe and many of most of our assets are in Europe, but we are trying to build uh our our our our footprint in in North America.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um just a little background there.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think you know Gabe obviously nailed it, and I think some of these nuances that we're gonna speak about are really important for marketers to understand.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it comes into play in many different ways uh who your audience is and where you're where you're marketing to in what geographic location and what channel, uh, because things I think look very different from a marketing perspective based on those on those differences.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, guys.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but actually, based on that, you know, given that you're advising and working alongside US asset managers as well as kind of European asset managers looking at the US, um, you know, based on both your experiences, um, what does it take to be successful and to gather assets in the US market?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: What do you need, what do you need in place?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Cynthia, maybe I'll come to you and then we'll follow up with Gabe.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So having having joined 91 in just January, so eight months ago, and coming from US asset managers where we already had brand awareness, I would say what I'm seeing as a huge barrier is just brand awareness, brand recognition.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would I would tie that closely to credibility among especially institutional asset managers, institutional organizations who are looking for breadth of experience in the markets, um, other relationships that you have, who else is invested.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, you know, brand and credibility are two things that are important at a high level across both all channels.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um on the retail side, certainly it's relationships with warehouses were very critical.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: On the institutional side, increasingly relationships with consultants.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So without that buy rating, your your hurdle to entry with many institutions in the US is is very high.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So just those are some quick thoughts on the nuances.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, Gabe, as you maybe add any other thoughts to that.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe for the uninitiated, you could just share what you mean by warehouses over there.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sure.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So Cynthia, I think uh fully agree with everything you just said.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll maybe um add some definition around the warehouse term, which is always really confusing to folks outside of the US.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the warehouses are the small group of nationally dispersed wealth managers, where the advisors are employees of those firms.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, UBS, Wells Fargo being the ones that that most uh would be aware of.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think you nailed it, Cynthia.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I guess the other thing I would add, um, going back to how big the US market is, um, it's critical for European asset managers to choose where to focus, to pick a few spots, to pick a couple of investment capabilities and a couple of channels, try to build on some initial opportunity of strength.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a subadvisory mandate that you've won.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, maybe it's a recommended list you've got on with one of those aforementioned wirehouses.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But choosing how you focused is really a critical first step.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we've worked with a lot of European firms that said, well, let's just stand up a website and put some ads out there and we'll go after all of it at the same time because we've got great products.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And inevitably we find that that approach um isn't gonna work and it takes uh a pretty surgical focus.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if I can add to that, I think you're right.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and as we see crowded, crowded markets, uh, I think picking, knowing who you are and what you're good at, but also knowing what audience you best fit is a better approach than trying to be everything to everyone.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because especially unless you're a very big asset manager, you just can't be that for everyone.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's a it's a real risk of failure to try to be too many things to too many different clients.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the same could go for for those coming to Europe, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: In a similar, similar vein.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but to your point then, it I mean, are some channels, whether sort of wholesale institutional, are they more suited to European managers than others?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it just purely about the focus on one rather than trying to be across it all?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I want to say, especially now more than ever, where we're all remote, that geography doesn't matter.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what does matter is a very localized approach.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you really have to understand your the market, whether you're in Europe or the US, and you have to build, I think, the infrastructure to support that market.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you again, one size doesn't fit all, and that that goes by channel, but also by geographic location.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you're going to build a footprint in a market, you have to really localize it and make it very specific to the clients you're trying to reach there.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sophia, I fully agree with that and would add when it comes to content and thought leadership, having that be really sort of locally or regionally aware is crucial.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what I've often experienced is um investment teams in Europe are incredibly focused on, for example, what's happening with the Eurozone and what's happening with the Euro, what's happening with the ECB, um, you know, once upon a time, what what's what did Mario Draghi say at a press conference, uh, for example?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, particularly in the wholesale channel in the US, people just don't care.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, American investors, American financial advisors cared for a little bit of time when it was all about kind of the, I guess, the repeated Euro crises, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: But outside of those sort of moments in time where the Euro is driving markets, it's just not a topic.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that can be a difficult thing for European firms to get their head around.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: That, you know, the the content themes and the thought leadership that's going to resonate with either advisors or consultants are very different in the US.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And absolutely the same thing applies the other way around, but perhaps not as much, at least for the moment, you know, given the US's importance, um, you know, as sort of the world's reserve currency and the rest of it.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe 20 years from now, um, no one will care about what's happening with the US dollar.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: But for the moment, at least, uh, it's still a big topic ever.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So getting that kind of regional um sort of nuance and specificity to your point, Cynthia, also on the content side, I think is definitely a challenge for firms.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I've heard it both ways.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I when I was marketing from the US into Europe, we heard a lot of this feels very American, it's not gonna resonate.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And now that I'm doing it the opposite way, I often hear we feel this feels foreign, and that's gonna turn off an investor in a based in America.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you definitely have to localize or version your content, uh, but even further than just changing the syntax from British to American or vice versa, I think you really do have to address the local uh challenges of the investors so that they trust you know how to meet them.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that you understand their environment, their challenges, and you can provide the right solutions.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely agree.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because of course, from your client's perspective, they don't really care where you're sort of originated from.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're they're focused on what the relevant solutions are for them today.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so um your competition is everybody else marketing in the US, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And being relevant to them, not necessarily the infrastructure where you're coming from and having to localize.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I agree with all of that, whether it's sort of coming this way or you know, Europeans going to sort of try to market into the US.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what you know, you talked about the size of the market, Gabe, and I mean it strikes me that obviously whatever you're doing, you need scalable solutions.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh there's maybe a sort of question in there around that tailoring um and how that works from a from a scaling point.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: But has marketing um, or more specifically, digital marketing always been a really visible strategic function for US asset managers in their marketing, then given the need for that sort of scale across such a sort of large market?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: A great question, Twink.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the answer is it depends.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So for the big firms and the mid-sized firms, uh, yes.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Digital, particularly obviously having a robust website, having an institutional site, having a site for retail investors, having, in some cases, a financial advisor gated site, um, having a sort of stitched up digital marketing program with automated emails and so on has long been a focus for mid-sized and larger US asset managers.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: What's changed, I think, is for small firms, for boutiques, they once could have been blissfully unaware of digital marketing, aside from having at least a modicum of the website, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: But all the rest of it, automated emails, digital campaigns, was just not on the radar for small firms because they knew they didn't have the budget to spend five million dollars on banner ads and Morningstar and print ads in the New York Times and Barron's and the Wall Street Journal and the rest of it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they said, look, we'll have a basic website, we'll have pitchbooks, we'll maybe have fact sheets for our composites.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, I'm sort of thinking of an institutional boutique here, and then I'll have you know a great sales force and relationships with consultants and sort of, you know, all set.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now those boutiques have the challenge, but also I think the opportunity to, at a pretty reasonable spend, have a digital marketing program where they can message to their selected cohort of advisors or consultants in a way that they can scale their spend relative to the resources and sort of have a really have a go at sort of building awareness and then tracking those leads and user journeys and serving them up to their sales teams, et cetera, in a in a way that just would not have been on their radar 10 years ago.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think digital marketing has become a focus for everyone from the boutiques up through the mega players.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know, Cynthia, you've especially recently, you've you've now had experience both of the really big ones and now, um, at least in the US, 91 being smaller.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's your take on that?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think that's exactly right.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the larger firms have been there longer, been dedicating resources to digital longer.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think now they're going even further.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's more resources going to data management and using insights from that data in a way that other industries have been for a long time, like more like consumer retail firms.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you're right, I think that there's a risk now of being left behind.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you aren't digital, especially today, where we are not live with clients, we are not at live events, how are you reaching your clients?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is their experience of your firm?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is largely digital.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are in that bucket of where you were already behind, you've got a you've got a lot of catching up to do and you need to do it quickly, or you risk being totally left in the dark.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um that sounds so daunting.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's think to the positive, that kind of the enlightened sort of USS managers who uh you know have got a great sort of digital infrastructure.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I guess I'm thinking about the sort of to your point around boutiques and specialists and you know, assuming that they are very much on board with um the digital distribution of their product, do you see a sort of polarization within the US asset within the US market that you know if you are true to your roots, you're a great specialist, and your your kind of core product area sits here and you know, and you sort of don't deviate and um you have you know that infrastructure in place, but that's at one end of your market.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the other, you have your mega managers who aren't focused so much on the margin, um, or that you know, they're happy for that to be compressed, shall I say, because they've got sort of such a sort of proliferation of product, they're in many geographies.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is that I mean we're definitely we definitely see that here in in Europe.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just sort of wondered really what you're seeing in terms of the major trends and challenges in in you know the market and for US asset managers right now.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think some segments of the institutional market prefer the boutique specialist, like endowments and foundations, for example, where you know they might want um you know private equity and other alternatives, um, and they want to do it with someone who is a specialist in those those asset classes.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of the larger public plans feel more comfortable with a larger asset manager with a fuller suite of solutions just naturally because there's a comfort there with the size and breadth of a of a bigger organization.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think it is important that if you if you if you're true to who you are, you just know where you have the best chance at getting traction.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say what's your view on the options then for those sort of mid-sized companies that are kind of caught in the no man's land between the kind of the mega manager scale and the specialist play.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been there too.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think um, you know, I think it's it's it's authenticity maybe that wins at the end of the day.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's uh it's okay to be sort of in the middle space because you you have enough to offer uh without uh pretending you're a black rock, you know.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think as long as you can tell your story and speak to your expertise, it's okay if you're not everything or you're not a boutique.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think you just have to be comfortable telling that story.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's where marketing plays a big role in what is the value proposition.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is there's definitely an opportunity for marketing to help there as well, because some I sometimes I think firms just struggle to tell their story.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, City.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think from an operating model perspective, Twink, there is no issue.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, from a scalability perspective, there shouldn't be any issues with being a mid-sized firm.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: The trap that a lot of mid-sized players fall into is they try to be a mid-sized firm.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: They are, or they are a mid-sized firm, but they're trying to compete with the really mega players.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they run 250 billion, but they're trying to compete as if they ran a trillion and have sort of product proliferation and sort of a messaging strategy that is spread across everything.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, they can't back it up the way that the trillion, the trillionaire clubs, and as we put it, can.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or they try to sort of be a boutique when actually they should be taking advantage of their better breadth of capability to build solutions and message a full a fuller suite.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about sort of right sizing your infrastructure and your focus from a product and marketing and messaging perspective to your size and not trying to be, you know, either the boutique or the mega player when you're not.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then Cynthia, I think you absolutely um nailed it around the role that marketing and branding has to play in having an authentic, an authentic message around that mid-sized firm.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: That look, maybe it's a collection of boutiques.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we've got specialisms across these three things, and that's an advantage, particularly when it comes to the commercial activity of having a sales team because it gives them more product and capabilities in their bag and more things to talk about with consultants or advisors versus being at that boutique when you're if if if you only do the one thing and it's out of favor, it's hard to justify the marketing and sales spend, right?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of advantages to having more than one capability.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm also just glad that certainly we're seeing marketing teams and the heads of marketing really being um sort of brought into those conversations to own, own that messaging, as you say, like to have much more of that strategic role in terms of how the companies are presenting themselves and how that is consistently applied right across the business.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, the sort of the uh the kind of the muscle and the strategic influence marketing now has is really, really heartening in this regard.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, that's been a big change.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of the proximity um that marketing has to kind of strategic decision making, you know, to that management committee or executive committee or board level discussion has changed a lot.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Although I, you know, the challenge that I hear from other heads of marketing sometimes is there is this um, I always think of the the you know, sort of the the image of you know the dog chasing the truck down the street, you know, like what's it gonna do when it catches it?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like we as marketers have been asking for the strategic seat at the table for a long time, but all of a sudden having the spotlight, you know, kind of the there's a flip side of that coin.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's another side of that sword, which uh gives a lot of it's a different kind of pressure.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think there is an increased expectation from the distribution side that marketing be more engaged, more in the know, understand the business, the clients, the products.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And with that comes that's a great thing, that's where you want to be as a marketer, but you're right, with that com comes.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Pressure to then be that and and then also be the marketer.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: You almost need to become a bit a bit more of a business expert than ever before.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess you know, increasingly with, and particularly now with so much being delivered digitally, that you have so much more data at your fingertips to be able to sort of point to the decisions that you're making and the evidence that sort of sits behind them.
• 22:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just on that point, Twink, about data and digital, um, I think one of the real threats, but also an opportunity around data, is you know, look, the opportunity is clear, you know, sort of you can demonstrate ROI, you can sort of draw this red thread from marketing activities to identifying leads and conversion and so on.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's a big part of White Marble's practice, working with our clients and so on.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: On the other hand, I always worry that because of the availability of data, it takes marketers away from doing some of the other things that are incredibly important to marketing around developing your brand, being authentic, um, you know, having that that sort of that brand pillar of your marketing practice be, you know, really uh really focused on and key and funded.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: But that's of course the thing that is hardest to bear out when it comes to efficacy and ROI.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it's it's it's a clear focus, but I worry about it sort of tailwagging the dog as you hear a lot of dog metaphors I'm using.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I worry about it becoming too much of a focus.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: I agree, and I feel like we could fill another podcast just on just on that, really, in terms of where where should uh marketers be spending their time and uh evidencing the value.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but let's just get back just to for a moment back to US asset managers and thinking of those who are seeking profitable growth in other markets, they've got a great presence in the US and they're maybe looking to expand into Europe.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we we definitely see that and we work with many.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but maybe you guys, using your experience, you can just share sort of maybe what what are what would be the challenges for a New York or a Boston-based marketing team, uh, developing content and campaigns for Europe.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you leverage that and vice versa, really?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to go first if you want, Dave.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say this has been both ways, both marketing from America into Europe and and vice versa.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: But definitely when you are sort of an outpost office, you feel like you are forgotten sometimes, or you wait, you wait in line more for resources.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you're fighting for resources.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and the perception is if you were in the headquarters, you maybe wouldn't have to.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so there's a bit of that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I would say also, just to bring in compliance, our favorite topic uh as marketers, you want to have an expert in local regulations because you you end up with with very high hurdles if you as a if you don't have someone who understands the marketing landscape, regulatory landscape at least, um, and huge delays.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if you you could have some of that stuff locally, you you would be in better shape than having to source that from another country where they're less familiar.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and again, I think it's about resourcing.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: So to build a proper marketing organization in a country in country, it's a lot of resources.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And some firms want to say, well, we need to see the assets before we can commit to building the team.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a bit of chicken or egg.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can get just enough resources to have the engine running, you kind of have to wait then, I think, for the assets to flow and then to fight for more resources.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very hard to do it properly without at least some in-country resources.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Gabe, what uh what would you add to that?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not a lot, Cynthia.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think those are those have been my experiences, too.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe one I'd add is um, you know, maybe slightly outside of the marketing lane, which is sort of the investment team dimension to this, and sort of the sales team dimension to this, which is sometimes you have this dynamic of, you know, there's a head of multi-asset or a chief investment officer who sits at headquarters who insists that kind of the house view get articulated in kind of the satellite region, you know, via that satellite marketing office.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, if that CIO is in the States, or if that CIO is in Europe, conversely, that messaging and that bias, which is, you know, it's it's it's bias isn't a bad word.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, we all have our biases, but it, you know, if your whole kind of career has been, you know, running portfolios in Europe or vice versa in the US, it's really hard to reframe that message for investors and consultants in the other market.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So oftentimes marketing gets sort of stuck in the middle of those battles.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what the investment or commercial team is insisting upon for sort of global consistency purposes, but um then that fighting this battle around making sure that it's actually going to resonate with your audience in whichever market it is.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's uh that's never fun.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think marketing does and often should sit in but as the mediator maybe between those the the investment teams and the distribution teams, but that is definitely a challenge.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would add to that, since you raised the PMs, is that before COVID, the challenge was we when you're farming you have to wait for the PM to be able to come abroad, right?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So scheduling is a challenge and getting the same access is harder when the flight is six plus hours.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: COVID has been the great equalizer there for us in that now we have calls and webinars, and our PMs are actually easier to access because we're all just doing it remotely.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so for us, we've been trying to be really strategic about using our PMs more because no one is doing live meetings anyway.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been helpful.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Which, by the way, is one of those advantages that sort of boutique and mid-sized firms can have, which is better access to their investment decision makers and not only having client portfolio managers or product specialists to serve up um to consultants.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um just sort of hearkening back to the earlier part of our conversation about sort of opportunities for smaller firms.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, brilliant.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um I got a question just around um what we see here and I and I and I believe also through a number of conversations and what we do in the US as well, Gabe.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: The around ESG and sustainability positioning.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'd just be really interested in your thoughts on where the US asset management industry is with embedding more sustainability into the culture, the brand, products, and the services of these companies.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um Cynthia, where where are you guys with that?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think uh no surprise, the US market is a bit behind Europe in, I would say, actually investing in ESG, but I've seen a massive increase in the interest in the conversations.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So more often than not, an introductory conversation with uh, you know, an analyst or a consultant would be, oh, what do you guys do in ESG?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden it's, you know, we could spend an hour with them talking about our ESG capabilities and what we're thinking.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we definitely feel like we're spending more time talking about it and a lot of like first, second, third conversations even.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say there's there is still a hurdle, and I think it's one around education and maybe information that that makes this strong enough case for you know a pension plan to convince their investment committee that they should be comfortable that we're not sacrificing returns by investing in an ESG strategy.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think we've made progress, but I don't think we're as we're as mature uh than Europe.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd be interested if it in what you guys are seeing over there.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this has been if Twink, if you would have asked us this even a year ago, I would have said the US was miles, light years behind Europe in terms of interest in the ESG or sustainability conversation.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the US, you know, particularly institutionally, but even in the advisors uh channels, has has caught up massively over the last over the last year and a half or so.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um at least it feels that way to me on the basis of the conversations and the work we've been doing with with US asset managers.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think there's just been so much attention to environmental uh issues uh in the media, which, you know, and there's a political dimension to that, obviously, as well in the US, which we can steer well clear of here on this podcast.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's another podcast.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's another podcast, right?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the US has caught up, uh has caught up massively, I guess, is is um is my feeling on it.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, interesting, thank you.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm conscious of of time, um, but as ever, I'd be grateful for you guys just to give any other final thoughts around uh or tips or um uh any any sort of other areas of interest that you think our listeners um would be keen to hear about the US and just sharing some other final tidbits.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe Cynthia, yeah, to jump in.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, yeah, a couple of things.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I would say specifically in the US, I think there's there's it's a truly uncertain time here between COVID and schools and what's gonna happen, the election is looming.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a it's a high stress moment for us.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as marketers and as asset managers, we just have to be empathetic to what our clients might be going through right now.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And empathy, I think, goes a long way in building trust in the long-term relationship.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then my other my other comment would be that this is a truly exciting time to be a marketer.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're we are closer to the business than ever.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: We are needed more than ever.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly am having a ton of fun trying to be creative about how we can engage clients right now.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just think this is a great place to be in this industry at the moment.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Those are those are great summary points, Cynthia.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I don't think I don't, I know I can't do better.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: I guess uh I was just thinking that's how to pull it.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's tough.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's very tough.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: I guess the one thing I would add is, you know, the US market, you know, coming from Europe can can look really, really daunting.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, given it's how competitive it is and sort of fees getting pressed down and all these stories about shrinking shelf space at those wirehouses we talked about.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's a lot of reasons if you look at it from afar to avoid it.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um what I would say is there are increasingly pockets of the US market, smaller consultants, the registered investment advisor channel as a whole, uh, more subadvisory opportunities for European firms because there are more multi-boutique platforms that are trying to seek out sort of undiscovered boutique managers from outside of the US.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that there are openings uh in the US market for European firms that shouldn't be dismissed.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, look, it's it's a$50 trillion market.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if you have aspirations as a firm to have sort of global blockbuster products and to, you know, sort of accelerate your profitable growth, um, the US really needs to be part of that.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Totally agree.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you both for your time today.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's sort of left us with a final hurrah for marketers in the US market.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: So uh thank you for leaving on such a positive note and for bringing all of your experience to bear for the last podcast.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Twink, and great to see you again.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: You too, Cynthia.