Latest / Talking Michigan Transportation / Work progresses on the final phase of rebuilding I-696

Transcript

Work progresses on the final phase of rebuilding I-696 · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:11
  Jeff Cranson: I spoke with Brian Travis, who is the construction engineer overseeing the final segment of a rebuild of I-696, major thoroughfare north of the city of Detroit, cutting through Oakland County and into Macomb County.
• 0:30
  Jeff Cranson: He spoke about some of the challenges as the project began, not least of which is the detours and people having to find their own way because of the complete closure of eastbound lanes, so that this job can be done safely and more quickly.
• 0:45
  Jeff Cranson: And we touched a little bit too on the completion of the I-96 flex route, the state's second such flex route so-called because you can use the shoulder to drive on to expand a little bit of capacity during peak hours in the mornings and afternoons, and the innovation that hasn't been used in Michigan in a long time and never was used for any length of time, which is the metering of ramps to regulate the flow of traffic onto the freeway.
• 1:17
  Jeff Cranson: So he covered all of that and I hope you enjoy the conversation.
• 1:22
  Jeff Cranson: So today, as I mentioned in the introduction, I'm speaking with Brian Travis, who has been a previous guest on the podcast, to talk about some major projects that he's overseen as a construction engineer and managed all kinds of things, from what we call maintenance of traffic to the various problems and challenges that come up on any big project.
• 1:46
  Jeff Cranson: And right now the biggest one is the final phase of a rebuild of I-696, which cuts across Oakland County and spills into Macomb and is a major thoroughfare for commuters and for commercial enterprises.
• 2:02
  Jeff Cranson: And they've launched the last phase and there was some trepidation at first.
• 2:07
  Jeff Cranson: Many of the people in the various communities were quite concerned about what it would mean to have a complete closure of one of the bounds, but so far it seems to be going pretty smoothly.
• 2:16
  Jeff Cranson: Is that right, Brian?
• 2:17
  Jeff Cranson: Is that a fair assessment?
• 2:19
  Brian Travis: Yeah, that's a fair assessment, Jeff.
• 2:21
  Brian Travis: So we started on this phase of 696 right around the beginning of March.
• 2:26
  Brian Travis: So been out there just over a month now and yeah, traffic has been detoured and finding its way throughout the area, not only on the detour route but also the local roads.
• 2:37
  Brian Travis: I think you know most people can see a lot of work happening down there on the freeway.
• 2:43
  Brian Travis: You know most people can see a lot of work happening down there on the freeway.
• 2:47
  Brian Travis: We are fully mobilized.
• 2:48
  Brian Travis: We've begun work sort of from the east to the west.
• 2:51
  Brian Travis: The contractor's doing some work in the median currently removing and replacing some barrier wall, installing storm sewer in the median electrical conduit, some of the stuff that happens underground before we can really start building the road base.
• 3:07
  Brian Travis: And just to give a quick overview for this project you know this is the last sort of piece of 696 from the east side to the west side.
• 3:16
  Brian Travis: This is the centerpiece.
• 3:17
  Brian Travis: We are doing what we call a concrete inlay.
• 3:21
  Brian Travis: So in essence we're replacing all the pavement out here, repairing most of the barrier wall, replacing some of the storm sewer.
• 3:30
  Brian Travis: We are constrained by budget.
• 3:32
  Brian Travis: We would love to replace everything in its entirety out here.
• 3:36
  Brian Travis: Unfortunately we don't have the funding.
• 3:38
  Brian Travis: So we're doing the best we can.
• 3:40
  Brian Travis: We're repairing a lot of the underground sewer.
• 3:42
  Brian Travis: We're repairing a lot of the underground sewer, making repairs to over, you know, almost 60 bridges along the corridor, so a lot of extensive rehab work happening as well.
• 3:53
  Jeff Cranson: So I think we talked about this before, but some history is in order, because you're doing this in phases and that's pretty much how it was built.
• 4:05
  Jeff Cranson: From what I had read about, they actually started on building this freeway as far back as 1961 and didn't really finish until 1989.
• 4:11
  Jeff Cranson: Was that because of you know?
• 4:14
  Jeff Cranson: Was that because of funding at the time, or just because of the various challenges with the environment?
• 4:20
  Brian Travis: Yeah, I think it was probably a little bit of both.
• 4:22
  Brian Travis: You know, especially through the area we're going through now that bisects a lot of communities.
• 4:28
  Brian Travis: I think that was a major consideration at the time, trying to acquire land and right away come up with agreements with the local communities.
• 4:37
  Brian Travis: So yeah, it took many years to complete this corridor.
• 4:43
  Jeff Cranson: Does anybody still refer to it as the Autobahn of Detroit?
• 4:46
  Jeff Cranson: I think they do.
• 4:49
  Brian Travis: You get on the social media comments and you see that pretty frequently.
• 4:53
  Jeff Cranson: Interesting.
• 4:53
  Jeff Cranson: Well, talk about how you came to the decision to completely close various bounds as you do this, as opposed to trying to maintain some traffic lanes as you do this as opposed to trying to maintain some traffic lanes.
• 5:06
  Brian Travis: Yeah, you know we look at a variety of options when we set up a project Along the corridor.
• 5:11
  Brian Travis: The past three years we've had traffic maintained on one side of the freeway.
• 5:16
  Brian Travis: That has its advantages and its drawbacks, you know that keeps both bounds open but you're very limited on space.
• 5:22
  Brian Travis: You have two lanes in each direction.
• 5:24
  Brian Travis: If there's a crash, if there's an incident completely snarls traffic, as a lot of commuters probably experienced over the past few years.
• 5:32
  Brian Travis: So we considered that here this section is a little bit different.
• 5:38
  Brian Travis: This is the depressed section of I-696, where we have the large retaining walls on either side.
• 5:43
  Brian Travis: Where we have the large retaining walls on either side, you might see signs when you're entering that part of the freeway that no explosive material is allowed.
• 5:50
  Brian Travis: So it's a restricted corridor.
• 5:52
  Brian Travis: If you were to have a crash, a fire, very hard for first responders to get down there and have access if we had, you know, two lanes in each direction.
• 6:04
  Brian Travis: So we made the decision, driven by safety, driven by the geometrics there, to just detour one bound, and eastbound was the bound that made sense.
• 6:10
  Brian Travis: That's, I'll call it an easy, easy off from 696.
• 6:14
  Brian Travis: You have two lanes that can kind of seamlessly exit to the southbound M10 there.
• 6:20
  Brian Travis: So it's tough on commuters, everyone has to find a different route, but really the best option for the area in my opinion as far as safety goes.
• 6:29
  Jeff Cranson: Well, you know, I've talked before with various people and for a long time you've found a trend that if you go to public meetings and seek public input about a project of this magnitude and you ask people, hey, do you want us to maintain some lanes of traffic and do this over a couple of seasons, or do you want to have it all done in one season by closing completely?
• 6:51
  Jeff Cranson: They'll almost always say, well, then, do the complete closure.
• 6:53
  Jeff Cranson: Has that been your experience?
• 6:56
  Brian Travis: Usually yes, and that's a consideration here that I didn't mention is it does save us time on the schedule.
• 7:01
  Brian Travis: We have critical areas in the median that we have to build bridge piers, that we have to get and do work on.
• 7:09
  Brian Travis: If we had traffic on that westbound side right up against that, we wouldn't, we wouldn't have room to do it, we'd have to shut down lanes, take additional time to build the project.
• 7:18
  Brian Travis: So exactly, you know you have these options.
• 7:21
  Brian Travis: Do we want to tack another season onto the project?
• 7:24
  Brian Travis: We don't.
• 7:25
  Brian Travis: The public doesn't want that.
• 7:27
  Brian Travis: Let's get in there.
• 7:28
  Brian Travis: Let's get it done as soon as we can.
• 7:30
  Jeff Cranson: Well, this comes at a time when we're putting more emphasis than ever on protecting the workers in those work zones.
• 7:37
  Jeff Cranson: As you know, starting with the pandemic and it hasn't really changed that much People are driving faster, not just in Michigan but everywhere, and that applies to work zones too, sadly.
• 7:49
  Jeff Cranson: So doing it this way also affords a lot more protection to the people actually doing the work right.
• 7:54
  Brian Travis: Absolutely.
• 7:55
  Brian Travis: You know we are protected behind barrier wall.
• 7:58
  Brian Travis: The westbound side of 696 is maintained in their normal lanes, so it's a lot easier and safer for us to get in and out of the work zone and it's safer for the public as well.
• 8:10
  Jeff Cranson: So talk about what you've discovered along the way in the first weeks of this project.
• 8:16
  Jeff Cranson: There's always surprises, challenges, nothing that you haven't seen before and don't know how to mitigate.
• 8:23
  Jeff Cranson: But what are some of those?
• 8:25
  Brian Travis: Yeah, I mean no huge surprises.
• 8:28
  Brian Travis: Just you know, as you open up the roadway, seeing what the existing base looks like, the existing sewers, the electrical things need an upgrade.
• 8:38
  Brian Travis: You know, that's why we're doing this project.
• 8:40
  Brian Travis: You kind of have the illusion that the pavement's not bad and everything's fine.
• 8:45
  Brian Travis: And you start looking underneath with a fine, you know, fine tooth comb, with a camera, and you see all the deficiencies.
• 8:52
  Brian Travis: So it's certainly time to do this project.
• 8:54
  Brian Travis: But that's all normal construction things for us.
• 8:58
  Brian Travis: No showstoppers.
• 8:59
  Brian Travis: So far we're moving along well.
• 9:02
  Brian Travis: The contractors, you know, fully mobilized, setting up their concrete batch plants, their concrete crushers, their staging yards.
• 9:10
  Brian Travis: So a lot of activities happening.
• 9:12
  Brian Travis: We've also started work on a handful of bridges.
• 9:15
  Brian Travis: So if you've been up top on the service drives or the local roads, you've noticed some bridges are closed, some have lane closures.
• 9:22
  Brian Travis: That's going to stay consistent for the rest of this year and next.
• 9:27
  Brian Travis: And we're also working on the Church Street Plaza Bridge.
• 9:31
  Brian Travis: That is impressive when you go on top of it.
• 9:35
  Brian Travis: Now We've made a lot of progress up there, taken all the fixtures and playground equipment off of the bridge, stripped all the soil off so you can actually see the top of the concrete beams, and we're getting ready for demolition of that structure at the end of this month.
• 9:51
  Brian Travis: So again, it's amazing what happens in a month's time on these projects.
• 9:57
  Jeff Cranson: Stay with us.
• 9:57
  Jeff Cranson: We'll have more on the other side of this important message.
• 10:03
  MDOT Message: Did you know that most work zone crashes are caused by inattentive motorists?
• 10:07
  MDOT Message: It only takes a split second of distraction to dramatically change lives forever.
• 10:12
  MDOT Message: The Michigan Department of Transportation reminds you to slow down, follow all signs and pay attention when driving through work zones, because all employees deserve a safe place to work.
• 10:24
  MDOT Message: Work zone safety we're all in this together.
• 10:31
  Jeff Cranson: Talk a little bit about that plaza and the specific challenges.
• 10:35
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, when this was being built I don't know that anybody at MDOT had a lot of experience with that kind of thing and we've learned a lot, obviously, about design and what can happen.
• 10:46
  Jeff Cranson: Can you talk about that?
• 10:49
  Brian Travis: Yeah, we have learned.
• 10:49
  Brian Travis: We learn water is the enemy right in any kind of engineering roadway work that we're doing.
• 10:57
  Brian Travis: We have to figure out a way to keep the water off of these bridges and draining to the places where it's supposed to drain.
• 11:04
  Brian Travis: You know that's.
• 11:05
  Brian Travis: The primary reason we're reconstructing this bridge is that we had the water that leaked onto the freeway, so we have a completely different design for the deck.
• 11:14
  Brian Travis: The beams are completely different.
• 11:16
  Brian Travis: This time we're confident that it's going to work, and now it's just about executing and following the plan.
• 11:21
  Brian Travis: So it's at the end of the day, we're just we're building another bridge, although this one is unique as we have soil on top of it.
• 11:28
  Brian Travis: We have just different features than we do on a normal bridge different features than we do on a normal bridge?
• 11:35
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, what would you, I guess could you be more specific about like, what will be different this time?
• 11:42
  Jeff Cranson: That will mitigate some of the problems from the previous construction.
• 11:44
  Brian Travis: Sure, yeah, and I can't speak to you know the ins and outs of all the design in the past and what happened there, but this one we're essentially we're building almost what you would call separate decks, seven separate decks.
• 11:59
  Brian Travis: Those decks are all designed to have water flow away from the joint lines and flow out to the outsides, to the abutments, to drain behind the abutment wall.
• 12:11
  Brian Travis: So we are making sure there are no chances for water to leak onto the freeway.
• 12:17
  Brian Travis: It's a fairly foolproof design.
• 12:20
  Brian Travis: So, compared to the last one again, I don't know the exact reason the last one failed and why all that water leaked, but we're confident it's not happening this time.
• 12:32
  Jeff Cranson: Talk a little bit, too, about what you've found as you jumped into this, coming right out of another major project with a heavy amount of traffic, although I think, I think you tell me, but the volume on 696, this segment of 696 is even more than that on I-96, where the flex route was built in Oakland County.
• 12:54
  Brian Travis: Yeah, it just keeps getting heavier as you go east, so we're definitely dealing with more traffic and because of that, you have to make certain accommodations, as we talked about, for the commuters.
• 13:08
  Jeff Cranson: What are you hearing about how people are finding their own way?
• 13:11
  Brian Travis: Yeah, you know we hear bits and pieces.
• 13:14
  Brian Travis: I think everyone just sort of understands it is what it is.
• 13:19
  Brian Travis: For the next two years we have to make accommodations, leave earlier, find an alternate route.
• 13:24
  Brian Travis: Some people follow the posted detour.
• 13:28
  Brian Travis: Some, you know, hop off at, say, lhasa Road and take a mile road over to the east.
• 13:34
  Brian Travis: So we've been monitoring the local roads.
• 13:37
  Brian Travis: We know which ones are heavier.
• 13:39
  Brian Travis: It's not hard to tell that when you observe traffic.
• 13:44
  Brian Travis: Obviously Southbound M10 is heavy 8 mile, 11 mile, 12 mile, 10 mile, all of the east routes there.
• 13:54
  Brian Travis: So we are working with the county to retime signals.
• 13:57
  Brian Travis: Now that we're a month in, I would say traffic is fairly set in its patterns.
• 14:03
  Brian Travis: So we know the areas that need attention.
• 14:05
  Brian Travis: Some of those signals on the Oakland County corridors.
• 14:08
  Brian Travis: They are able to self-adjust a little bit.
• 14:11
  Brian Travis: So you know they'll give more green time when traffic's heavier.
• 14:15
  Brian Travis: But you know it's something that we are still actively monitoring and making changes as we can and we can't change everything.
• 14:23
  Brian Travis: Traffic is going to be traffic and it has to find its way somewhere.
• 14:28
  Brian Travis: So there will be some pain points over the next few years but hopefully everyone can adjust accordingly.
• 14:36
  Jeff Cranson: What I've found over the years is that people find like you say find their own way and don't use the official detours.
• 14:42
  Jeff Cranson: A lot of people figure out their own ways around and many people are very secretive about that.
• 14:48
  Jeff Cranson: If you ask them, they don't want to tell you.
• 14:49
  Jeff Cranson: It's like sharing your favorite fishing spot.
• 14:52
  Brian Travis: Oh for sure.
• 14:52
  Brian Travis: Yeah, they find somewhere where their GPS or Waze sends them, and it's a secret spot.
• 14:56
  Brian Travis: GPS or Waze sends them and it's a secret spot.
• 14:58
  Brian Travis: It's funny because it will change frequently too, depending on what time of day you go through.
• 15:05
  Jeff Cranson: It might tell you to take the detour, Other times it might tell you to hop off at Telegraph and go up to the 12 mile or something like that.
• 15:14
  Jeff Cranson: So let's talk a little bit about the other project that you're wrapping up, that you've been overseeing the last couple of years, and that's the addition of the state's second flex route and this one on 96 I mentioned earlier in western Oakland County.
• 15:26
  Jeff Cranson: You're pretty much done with the major work, but the ramp metering is still yet to come and I can't remember the exact date.
• 15:39
  Jeff Cranson: You expect those to be in place, but Michigan hasn't had ramp metering in a number of years, so can you talk about that?
• 15:45
  Brian Travis: Sure, yeah, we are basically complete out there.
• 15:48
  Brian Travis: You might see us off on the shoulder doing some work here in the coming weeks, some finish up punch list type work.
• 15:54
  Brian Travis: The ramp meters are still in process.
• 15:57
  Brian Travis: We are still doing active testing there.
• 15:59
  Brian Travis: I hesitate to put an exact date on it at the moment, but it is coming very soon.
• 16:04
  Brian Travis: In the near future those ramp meters will change.
• 16:07
  Brian Travis: You know the dynamic of that corridor a little bit, just as daily commuters you know it's another thing that they'll have to adjust to.
• 16:15
  Brian Travis: I think ultimately it's going to be good.
• 16:17
  Brian Travis: It's going to help with traffic operations on the freeway.
• 16:20
  Brian Travis: I think ultimately it's going to be good.
• 16:21
  Brian Travis: It's going to help with traffic operations on the freeway.
• 16:22
  Brian Travis: But now traffic is going to have to observe a signal at the end of eight different ramps throughout the corridor.
• 16:26
  Brian Travis: So we have some education pieces.
• 16:30
  Brian Travis: You know that will be distributed videos, things of that nature.
• 16:34
  Brian Travis: So the public, you know if they have questions they'll have a place to look, they'll have a place to reference and it's going to take a little time, I think, for folks to get used to those ramp meters.
• 16:44
  Jeff Cranson: How did the decision come to be to deploy that for this particular segment?
• 16:49
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, do you feel like there's a certain threshold of traffic entering that calls for that, or is it just something that you know?
• 16:58
  Jeff Cranson: It's another innovation that seemed to just make sense.
• 17:02
  Brian Travis: Yeah, it's a little beyond my wheelhouse to talk of the specifics of what went into those decisions.
• 17:08
  Brian Travis: But you know, being that we decided this was going to be a flex lane corridor, I think it kind of made sense.
• 17:15
  Brian Travis: It kind of goes hand in hand with the flex lanes.
• 17:17
  Brian Travis: It goes hand in hand with the flex lanes, obviously.
• 17:19
  Brian Travis: The flex lanes are there because of the traffic volumes out on 96.
• 17:24
  Jeff Cranson: The goal is to keep moving traffic, keep moving it consistently, safely, and this prevents you know large platoons of traffic entering the freeway at one time during we'll call it rush hour on the freeway.
• 17:40
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I should back up and remind people who aren't necessarily in the know because they haven't necessarily traveled on the other one, which is on US 23 between Ann Arbor and Brighton, that the Federal Highway Administration will allow the use of an improved shoulder for traffic certain times of day, peak hours in the mornings and afternoons, or maybe for special events, but in lieu of actually having to build a new lane and all the environmental clearance that would go with that and a great deal of more challenges for construction.
• 18:10
  Jeff Cranson: This has worked out really well on US 23, and I think it will on I-96 too.
• 18:14
  Jeff Cranson: I think I've mentioned to you before that I'm in Denver quite often because my daughter lives there and the ramp metering there various places seems to work really well.
• 18:24
  Jeff Cranson: I'm guessing you've driven through some places, other places, other states that have it.
• 18:29
  Brian Travis: I have, yeah, and we've talked to several other states too through some of the details as we're finalizing things out here, and when you talk to those states they almost talk about it like it's an afterthought.
• 18:43
  Brian Travis: At this point, because it's been around for so long, I think it just becomes part of the infrastructure and part of the driver expectation.
• 18:48
  Brian Travis: So, as I said, it's going to take a moment for folks to get used to.
• 18:52
  Brian Travis: People will probably question why these things are there, but give it some time and I think it's going to function like any other traffic control device that the public's used to and they'll adjust accordingly.
• 19:03
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, it's a, it's a very brief stop, and then you, and then you go.
• 19:07
  Brian Travis: Yeah yeah, you're not sitting there for two minutes or anything like that, so it's it's brief, it's painless and I think it'll help things.
• 19:14
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah well, thanks as always, Brian, for giving us an update on this very important project that affects a heck of a lot of people.
• 19:23
  Jeff Cranson: Is there anything else you want to add?
• 19:28
  Brian Travis: No, I mean I enjoy talking about these projects.
• 19:29
  Brian Travis: I think we have the detour in place, but the pain is worth it.
• 19:33
  Brian Travis: For a couple of years the benefit will outweigh any added commute time that folks have right now.
• 19:40
  Jeff Cranson: In a few short years we'll have a nice new freeway to drive on so, yeah, like, uh, like, really all of the projects that were included in the rebuilding michigan bonding plan.
• 19:50
  Jeff Cranson: This is gonna, it's gonna last a long time and you're not gonna be back out there to do any serious work for several years, so that'll, that'll have its own benefits.
• 19:58
  Jeff Cranson: For years, so that'll have its own benefits.
• 20:00
  Jeff Cranson: Absolutely, yeah, okay, well, thanks, Brian, yeah, thanks, Jeff.
• 20:03
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 20:07
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 20:11
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.