Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Father Killed, Throat Slit, Disemboweled - Son Says "Aliens Harvested His Organs"

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Father Killed, Throat Slit, Disemboweled - Son Says "Aliens Harvested His Organs" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Quody Doors, but Joseph's gotten more. Back in the nineties,
0:08
Speaker 1: I used to be a fan of the program X Files.
0:15
Speaker 1: There's never been anything like it on television. That was
0:17
Speaker 1: kind of fascinated by it. It was interesting. It truly
0:24
Speaker 1: was never understood how a port certified forensic pathologist I
0:28
Speaker 1: became a FBI agent. That never made sense to me.
0:32
Speaker 1: And she would conduct her on the autopsies. But that aside, Hollywood,
0:36
Speaker 1: you know now, you know those things that we thought
0:43
Speaker 1: were quite fantastic back then would show like the X Files.
0:50
Speaker 1: It seemed to be getting into our I don't know
0:55
Speaker 1: our common conversations now regarding things like extraterrestrial life. And
1:02
Speaker 1: you know these people seeing things on radar, former Navy
1:06
Speaker 1: fighter pilot seeing the infamous tic TACs, if you've seen
1:10
Speaker 1: any of that stuff, And I've gotten kind of numb
1:12
Speaker 1: to it now.
1:15
Speaker 2: But what.
1:17
Speaker 1: Happens if an individual believes that some extraterrestrial life form
1:26
Speaker 1: has inhabited the body of a member of his family,
1:32
Speaker 1: and not just any member of his family, his father,
1:39
Speaker 1: and in order to protect himself from said extraterrestrial life
1:45
Speaker 1: inhabiting his father's body, he thinks it's a good idea
1:52
Speaker 1: to probably kill him. Coming to you from the beautiful
1:59
Speaker 1: campus of Jacksonville State University in Jacksonville, Alabama. I'm Joseph
2:04
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs. When when I
2:13
Speaker 1: saw the headlines of this, first off, I'm thinking, okay,
2:18
Speaker 1: so you're saying that, you, h, the authorities have this
2:24
Speaker 1: young man has harvested his his father's organs. I want
2:30
Speaker 1: to know what organs? Uh, you know, what precisely was harveded? Harvested?
2:35
Speaker 1: And then they're also using the term disembowelment, which.
2:41
Speaker 2: Joe, I mean, I can't imagine what I think it means.
2:44
Speaker 2: But what does disembowment really mean?
2:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, most of the time with disembowelment, it's it's not
2:52
Speaker 1: removal of the large and small intestine. Because when they
2:57
Speaker 1: say bowel, that's that's the that's what they're referring to.
3:02
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, you know, when you
3:04
Speaker 1: talk to physicians, surgeons in particular, and pathologists when you're
3:08
Speaker 1: doing autopsies, they'll say, you know, we need to take
3:13
Speaker 1: a look at at small bowel. They're not going to
3:17
Speaker 1: say small intestine, small bowel, large bowel, And it's a
3:22
Speaker 1: you know, out of all all of the organ systems
3:24
Speaker 1: that I dealt with in the autopsy suite, that was
3:29
Speaker 1: probably the most unpleasant. And there's a couple of reasons why.
3:35
Speaker 1: First off, when you open human remains and you get
3:43
Speaker 1: into the abdominal cavity, if you disrupt the bowel in
3:47
Speaker 1: any way, and certainly if you nick it, you're going
3:51
Speaker 1: to have and even this is even with the fresh debt,
3:55
Speaker 1: you're going to have kind of an eruption or presentation
4:02
Speaker 1: of smell in the autopsy room that is very offensive.
4:11
Speaker 1: And I'm saying, and this is a different kind of
4:12
Speaker 1: smell that you have with you know, with with decomposition.
4:19
Speaker 1: It makes the entire room smell like a bowel movement
4:24
Speaker 1: and it doesn't dissipate because the body is laying there,
4:29
Speaker 1: laid bare before you. So with this disembowelment, we can
4:36
Speaker 1: look back in history there there have actually been, you know,
4:39
Speaker 1: cases where uh, disembowlment was used as a means of death,
4:44
Speaker 1: either self inflicted or or you know, when you have
4:51
Speaker 1: the authorities that are have sanctioned some type of capital punishment.
4:56
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that comes to mind
4:58
Speaker 1: is that scene from Brave Heart that with mel Gibson
5:03
Speaker 1: where they have him strapped to the table at the
5:05
Speaker 1: end of the movie. I don't want to if no
5:06
Speaker 1: one's seen Brave Heart by this point, I don't think
5:08
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give a spoiler here. But you know, one
5:11
Speaker 1: of the things that they say is they use a hook.
5:15
Speaker 1: And the hook looks a lot like a gutting knife
5:18
Speaker 1: that that you see today that people use with deer.
5:21
Speaker 1: It's kind of a It actually does have a hooked shape.
5:25
Speaker 1: The inner portion of the blade is very very sharp,
5:28
Speaker 1: and you run it up the midline and the bowels
5:30
Speaker 1: fall out. Okay, there's that famous scene from Let's See
5:35
Speaker 1: What was it? Was it the Red Dragon or was
5:39
Speaker 1: it Hannibal? I can't remember one of the Silence of
5:42
Speaker 1: Lambs movies, and Anthony Hopkins character actually says to the
5:48
Speaker 1: Italian detective in there, bowels in or bowels out. And
5:52
Speaker 1: this is before he throws him over a balcony, you know,
5:57
Speaker 1: by hanging and yeah, he dissembut him and his bowels
6:00
Speaker 1: are hanging out. And there's a lot of references to
6:03
Speaker 1: this type of punishment that you can see in art
6:08
Speaker 1: going back years and years. I think there's even a
6:11
Speaker 1: character I can't remember which character one person in the
6:14
Speaker 1: Bible that they refer was it Judas? I can't remember. Yeah, yeah,
6:21
Speaker 1: his bowels, you know, erupted and that sort of thing.
6:24
Speaker 1: And now I'm talking about two different things here relative
6:28
Speaker 1: to the disembowelment of somebody, and then trying to have
6:31
Speaker 1: our friends understand that that the bowel is something that
6:37
Speaker 1: even in the morgue, it's not the most pleasant thing.
6:40
Speaker 1: It's not like taking a heart out or taking lungs out.
6:44
Speaker 1: And here's a little inside baseball for you as well.
6:47
Speaker 1: One of the things. I worked with a pathologist for years,
6:53
Speaker 1: and when small bowel was removed, he would have me
7:00
Speaker 1: run what they call run the bowel. And so you
7:02
Speaker 1: start and small intestine is long. It's long. You hear
7:08
Speaker 1: all kinds of figures that are thrown out. Don't believe
7:10
Speaker 1: what you hear, but it is. It is rather robust
7:12
Speaker 1: in length. And so you have to start at at
7:17
Speaker 1: one end essentially where the stomach dumps into the small intestine,
7:27
Speaker 1: and you clip it off where it dumps into the
7:30
Speaker 1: large intestine, and you take a pair of scissors. And
7:34
Speaker 1: there's actually scissors that we have in the more called
7:36
Speaker 1: battle scissors, and they've got kind of a it looks
7:40
Speaker 1: like the bottom half of a duck bill on one side,
7:45
Speaker 1: on the bottom portion, and then it's that duck bill
7:49
Speaker 1: turns into a very sharp edge. It's a pair of
7:51
Speaker 1: scissors and you have a regular the top aspect is
7:55
Speaker 1: a regular presentation of scissors. And then you just kind
7:58
Speaker 1: of pull the bowel over the surface of the scissors
8:02
Speaker 1: and the bowel actually opens. And the reason we do
8:04
Speaker 1: that and the morgue is to check for any kind
8:07
Speaker 1: of pathology that might be existing in the bowel. Now,
8:12
Speaker 1: it's painstaking, takes a while. You have to wash and
8:14
Speaker 1: clean the bowel, and of course it's a foul undertaking,
8:18
Speaker 1: you know, as you can imagine. And then you get
8:20
Speaker 1: into the large intestine, which is much shorter, easy to manage.
8:24
Speaker 1: It gets really really nasty to get into that. And again,
8:29
Speaker 1: you know, we have to explore these areas if you're
8:32
Speaker 1: going to actually do an autopsy and say that you've
8:35
Speaker 1: done a full autopsy. That's part and parcel of what
8:37
Speaker 1: you have to do. However, in our case today, I
8:43
Speaker 1: don't think that that was the purpose of what the
8:46
Speaker 1: Sun was setting out to do here. I don't think
8:48
Speaker 1: he was looking for any kind of in dwelling disease
8:51
Speaker 1: that his dad might have had. He's, according to what
8:55
Speaker 1: we're understanding from the police, he was there to search
9:03
Speaker 1: for alien life that in dwelled his father for the day.
9:21
Speaker 1: You know, when the police initially rolled up on this case,
9:26
Speaker 1: and by the way, this is in El Paso, Texas.
9:29
Speaker 1: When they rolled up on this case, they were summoned
9:32
Speaker 1: to the home. And I find this wording fascinating. They
9:37
Speaker 1: rolled up at the house regarding that quote unquote unattended death.
9:42
Speaker 1: And what that generally means when you hear unattended is
9:49
Speaker 1: somebody may have peacefully passed away in their sleep. We
9:54
Speaker 1: use the term unattended in medical legal circles by saying
9:58
Speaker 1: that no one was physically there when they died. Okay,
10:03
Speaker 1: And any unattended death in the departments that I worked for,
10:08
Speaker 1: you had to you had to make an appearance at
10:10
Speaker 1: the scene because there are some deaths that occur. You
10:14
Speaker 1: have people that are gravely ill and and they pass on. Well,
10:20
Speaker 1: was that death attended or unattended? And our you know,
10:23
Speaker 1: the last shop that I was at, you know, our
10:25
Speaker 1: rule of thumb was was that I don't care if
10:28
Speaker 1: there was somebody living upstairs, and this person died on
10:32
Speaker 1: the first floor and another person lives on the second floor.
10:34
Speaker 1: If they passed away without somebody witnessing, that's an unattended death.
10:38
Speaker 1: So we would go out and at least do an examination.
10:40
Speaker 1: But can you imagine, can you imagine when these officers
10:45
Speaker 1: from El Paso rolled up at the scene. I can
10:51
Speaker 1: guarantee you, I can dollars to donuts. I guarantee you
10:54
Speaker 1: that when these folks clocked in that morning, this is
11:00
Speaker 1: the last thing they expected to see that day.
11:03
Speaker 2: Well, you know, when you started off talking about aliens
11:07
Speaker 2: and things like that, it almost almost unbuttoning the shirt,
11:12
Speaker 2: you know, a little early because as we look at
11:15
Speaker 2: this case, you have a father seventy four years old
11:22
Speaker 2: and he's dead. In the days preceding his death, he's
11:27
Speaker 2: calling one of his sons and saying, Hey, your brother,
11:30
Speaker 2: Jamie is acting crazy again. I'm putting that in air quotes,
11:33
Speaker 2: acting crazy again again. Got to add that to this,
11:38
Speaker 2: he's acting crazy again. That means that within their nuclear family,
11:43
Speaker 2: that tight little family circle, father and two sons, at least,
11:47
Speaker 2: they're more than aware that Jamie is not balanced and
11:51
Speaker 2: he has done this before. And based on what happened,
11:54
Speaker 2: I'm going to say he's been violent before. Now, if
11:58
Speaker 2: Jamie has been violent before and has been acting crazy before,
12:02
Speaker 2: did he blame those pastimes on aliens or did he
12:08
Speaker 2: have some other thing to blame it on. In this case,
12:12
Speaker 2: we've got Victor Contraras goes to the house to check
12:17
Speaker 2: on his seventy four year old father, and before he
12:20
Speaker 2: can make entry into the home, he smells rotting flesh.
12:25
Speaker 2: He smells death. You've explained this before, Joe and have
12:30
Speaker 2: talked about the smells that people incur when they come
12:36
Speaker 2: upon a dead thing, a dead animal, a dead human.
12:40
Speaker 2: Is there a big difference when you have a death
12:43
Speaker 2: like we're talking about today, where the term disembowel has
12:48
Speaker 2: been used. Is that a different smell than that of
12:52
Speaker 2: rotting flesh or a combination of things going on.
12:58
Speaker 1: After a period of time's going to end together. However,
13:01
Speaker 1: there is that moment in time. I would think that
13:05
Speaker 1: with the bowels outside of the body, And not to
13:08
Speaker 1: mention Dave, I can't just kind of gloss over this.
13:11
Speaker 1: But if if this man was in fact disemboweled, and
13:17
Speaker 1: we've got other injuries, we're going to talk about as well,
13:20
Speaker 1: there's going to be a copious amount of blood that
13:25
Speaker 1: will have issued for from his body. Now, even in
13:29
Speaker 1: the case, I know what people are saying, well, what
13:32
Speaker 1: if he was dead after it happened. Listen, if with
13:36
Speaker 1: this level of trauma that they are at least intimating,
13:40
Speaker 1: you know, occurred, you're going to have puddles. Puddles are
13:47
Speaker 1: different than pools. To me, that's kind of my own
13:51
Speaker 1: view of it. You're going to have puddles of blood
13:56
Speaker 1: that will, you know, kind of surround the body. You
14:00
Speaker 1: can have pooled blood and maybe you know other people's
14:07
Speaker 1: you know, understanding a volume of blood that's been let
14:10
Speaker 1: might be different. But I've always envisioned, you know, puddles
14:13
Speaker 1: of blood and you're stomping through rain puddles and you'll
14:17
Speaker 1: have a copious amount of blood there on the surfaces,
14:20
Speaker 1: and that's going to have a smell. You combine that
14:23
Speaker 1: with the bowels that have now been released from the
14:26
Speaker 1: abdomen that will have a particular smell. And additionally, he's
14:34
Speaker 1: been down for a while. Now. What you're going to
14:38
Speaker 1: be looking at here is that anytime you have a
14:43
Speaker 1: body that is severely traumatized like this, you are sending
14:50
Speaker 1: out a signal for every insect that is round about,
14:56
Speaker 1: and flies will almost immediately show up. Okay, So that
15:01
Speaker 1: process of you know that putrification is going to accelerate. Putrification,
15:11
Speaker 1: as I teach, is different than autoliis. Autolsis is kind
15:15
Speaker 1: of an internal breaking down. But something that's putrefied has
15:19
Speaker 1: got internal and external forces working on it. And so
15:23
Speaker 1: you're going to have a lot of flies that will
15:26
Speaker 1: light And you say, well, my house is perfectly sealed.
15:29
Speaker 1: I never see a fly in my house. Let me
15:33
Speaker 1: tell you something. Where there's a will, there's a way
15:36
Speaker 1: I've found for flies, they will get in there. I've
15:38
Speaker 1: actually handled cases day of people that have died in
15:44
Speaker 1: the summertime where I found flags have been laid on
15:48
Speaker 1: the body within three hours of death. And I'm talking
15:52
Speaker 1: about in the eyes and the nostrils. They stick out moist, moist,
15:57
Speaker 1: dark areas to lay these eggs. And so again with
16:02
Speaker 1: the fly activity, that's only going to further this. So
16:06
Speaker 1: when they walk through the door, and this is not
16:10
Speaker 1: something new to them, to the police officers, I can
16:12
Speaker 1: assure you you know, l Pass is relatively nice sized place.
16:16
Speaker 1: They will have been out on what he comes before,
16:19
Speaker 1: and it's it's going to hit their senses like nobody's business,
16:24
Speaker 1: and they're going to smell it. The son, who in
16:27
Speaker 1: this case is the finder, I believe, correct, Dave correct?
16:32
Speaker 1: He you know when he shows up at dad's domicile. Here,
16:39
Speaker 1: how assaulting this is for a child to discover their
16:43
Speaker 1: parents like this, And it's going to be a smell
16:46
Speaker 1: more than likely unless he works in or around our field,
16:50
Speaker 1: is going to be all the more assaulting to him.
16:54
Speaker 1: And it's it's a horrible proposition because I can only
16:58
Speaker 1: imagine this, this young man whose father has passed away.
17:03
Speaker 1: He knows that he had been having conversations with his dad,
17:06
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you wonder if those
17:09
Speaker 1: conversations began to flood back into his memory. And then
17:14
Speaker 1: he's got this associated smell that's emanating from the home
17:18
Speaker 1: and he is he hasn't yet found his dad's body,
17:22
Speaker 1: because the smell is gonna will assault you way before
17:26
Speaker 1: what you see assault you. It will be as soon
17:29
Speaker 1: as he opens the door. Sometimes you can smell it
17:31
Speaker 1: outside of the house. I've had that happen on many
17:34
Speaker 1: occasions where I could smell riting flesh from within the
17:38
Speaker 1: within the home before I ever opened the door, and
17:41
Speaker 1: Katie barred the door when you do open it because
17:43
Speaker 1: it slams you in the face. So he this poor child,
17:48
Speaker 1: to this man has has really born witness, both in
17:53
Speaker 1: the smell sense, in the in the visual sense, to
17:56
Speaker 1: something that he probably wouldn't count on, Dave.
17:59
Speaker 2: And that's where I was looking back to that initial
18:03
Speaker 2: call from Dad saying, Hey, your brother's not acting right.
18:05
Speaker 2: He's acting, you know, strange, he's acting weird. Again, when
18:10
Speaker 2: when the sun gets there to check on his dad,
18:13
Speaker 2: he realizes that things are not just not good because
18:17
Speaker 2: the smell tells him. I'm going to go out on
18:19
Speaker 2: a limb here and say he knew death was right
18:21
Speaker 2: around the corner before he ever set foot in the
18:23
Speaker 2: house because it's emanating from inside the house. And by
18:26
Speaker 2: the way, Joe, it had to have been going on
18:29
Speaker 2: for a couple of days, right, I mean, this is
18:31
Speaker 2: not something that is going to just happen and poof.
18:34
Speaker 2: You can you know tell there's a dead body inside.
18:38
Speaker 2: This is something that's been going on for a couple
18:39
Speaker 2: of days, all right. Now, when he gets in, we
18:44
Speaker 2: know that his father is dead. We know that Victor Sr.
18:49
Speaker 2: Is dead from well we've talked about disambal, but he's
18:52
Speaker 2: got other injuries going on too. How are these other
18:55
Speaker 2: injuries going to impact his body? Does your body deteriorate
19:01
Speaker 2: faster when you have more injuries?
19:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that it does, and there's evidence
19:10
Speaker 1: that it does because anytime you it's almost it's almost
19:15
Speaker 1: like a ship. You know, if you if you insult
19:20
Speaker 1: the structural integrity of a ship, it compromises, uh, everything
19:26
Speaker 1: that's contained within the ship. Okay, so if you think
19:31
Speaker 1: of our bodies as a vessel, and they're referred to
19:33
Speaker 1: as vessels, uh in many texts throughout the throughout the world.
19:41
Speaker 1: Every time there is an insult to any area of
19:45
Speaker 1: the body, particularly where it's left a you know, a
19:49
Speaker 1: gash or a slit or a stab wound or a
19:53
Speaker 1: bullet hole or you know, a large opening body like
19:59
Speaker 1: would be a soci with disembowment. For every every insult
20:04
Speaker 1: to the body, I believe that you are increasing the
20:10
Speaker 1: rate at which that body is going to decompose because
20:13
Speaker 1: you violate the structural integrity of the body. So it's
20:16
Speaker 1: going to break down quicker. That those spaces that are
20:21
Speaker 1: normally protected in life are now open to an increased
20:27
Speaker 1: rate of decomposition. It is also open to the external elements,
20:34
Speaker 1: particularly heat in that environment, and it's also going to
20:39
Speaker 1: be exposed to any kind of insect activity. And if
20:42
Speaker 1: it's outdoors and you have animals about that would be
20:47
Speaker 1: so inclined to go after the dead, you've increased that
20:53
Speaker 1: factor as well. So Yeah, in answer to your question, yeah,
20:57
Speaker 1: I believe that it does impact the rate at which
20:59
Speaker 1: bodies de pose. But these injuries that this you know,
21:03
Speaker 1: poor man sustained, just so we understand mister Contrera's victor,
21:13
Speaker 1: there's evidence that not only was he disemboweled, you've got
21:19
Speaker 1: blood deposition all over the house, which you would expect.
21:23
Speaker 1: That means that probably something happened in life, unless it's
21:26
Speaker 1: transferred blood that comes off of perpetrator and they're touching
21:29
Speaker 1: the wall or touching some other surface. You've also got
21:34
Speaker 1: what they have identified as stab wounds. So we know
21:38
Speaker 1: from jump Street that we've got uh if as if
21:41
Speaker 1: we need any further confirmation, we've got sharp for his
21:45
Speaker 1: injuries to the body, and he's also got something else
21:49
Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting here, Dave. They're kind of being
21:52
Speaker 1: non specific, but I can I can probably guess what
21:55
Speaker 1: this is. They're talking about a severe head injury or
22:00
Speaker 1: head injuries. They're not saying cuts, and that takes us
22:06
Speaker 1: down a completely different road. And oh yeah, by the way,
22:10
Speaker 1: he's had his throat cut. So you've got this myriad
22:13
Speaker 1: of injuries that have occurred. One of the problems that
22:18
Speaker 1: the pathologist is going to be faced with because the
22:21
Speaker 1: police are going to ask this question. And here it's
22:23
Speaker 1: the classic question that we always get asked, You know
22:28
Speaker 1: what sequence did these occur in? So, how did this
22:33
Speaker 1: come about? At what stage did this come about? And
22:38
Speaker 1: we've talked about before on body backs. Was it anti mortem,
22:42
Speaker 1: perry mortem or post mortem? Only an autopsy can actually tell. So,
23:04
Speaker 1: just so that we can revisit, you've got a father
23:06
Speaker 1: who in life had contacted her to the other son
23:09
Speaker 1: and stated that he made mention to his son, who
23:14
Speaker 1: turns out to be the finder of Victor's body, says,
23:19
Speaker 1: your brother's acting crazy again. That is that pretty? Is
23:23
Speaker 1: that an accurate call? Dave?
23:24
Speaker 2: As something that goes along with the Hey, your son,
23:27
Speaker 2: your brother Jamie is acting crazy again. That's what Victor
23:31
Speaker 2: Senior told Victor Jor And that made me look back
23:35
Speaker 2: at a few things, Joe, because my first thought was,
23:39
Speaker 2: if dad is calling the son and saying, hey, he's
23:41
Speaker 2: acting crazy again, that's a fearful thing to say that
23:45
Speaker 2: to his son. It's asking for help without asking for help,
23:48
Speaker 2: it's saying I got a problem I can't deal with here. Well,
23:51
Speaker 2: I looked it up. Sure enough, police have been called before,
23:54
Speaker 2: because before this happened, police showed up because Jamie Contreras,
24:00
Speaker 2: the son, actually took a hammer to his father and
24:04
Speaker 2: hit his father in the head with a hammer a
24:05
Speaker 2: couple of times prior to this, and police showed up
24:09
Speaker 2: for that one. And that's where the call your brother's
24:13
Speaker 2: acting crazy again came from, because there was the prior attack,
24:18
Speaker 2: I believe. So when you start looking at this, one
24:21
Speaker 2: of the things I noticed, Joe is, first of all,
24:24
Speaker 2: when Victor Junior gets there and he smells death through
24:31
Speaker 2: a window he's outside when he comes in the house
24:33
Speaker 2: and he sees what is obviously a body on the floor,
24:37
Speaker 2: and it's covered in a very very bloody sheet, and
24:41
Speaker 2: he says that when he took the sheet off, the
24:43
Speaker 2: body was very bloated. Yeah, and which that indicates a
24:49
Speaker 2: number of things to you as an investigator that probably
24:53
Speaker 2: passed by people like me. We just kind of assume
24:57
Speaker 2: we see a dog on the side of the road,
24:58
Speaker 2: they bloat. But it's got to mean a whole lot
24:59
Speaker 2: more when it's a human being inside of a home
25:02
Speaker 2: as you try to determine, you know, how long he's
25:04
Speaker 2: been there. But there was there were wounds to his head.
25:12
Speaker 2: I'm thinking that those were caused probably by a hammer.
25:15
Speaker 2: I got nothing to go on except that he had
25:17
Speaker 2: beat him with a hammer of before. And I'm thinking,
25:19
Speaker 2: whenever we've done a story about somebody getting hit with
25:21
Speaker 2: a hammer, it's in their.
25:22
Speaker 1: Head, Yeah it is, and that's you know, that's where
25:25
Speaker 1: you're going to attack. That's where I think most assailants
25:28
Speaker 1: would attack someone with a hammer. I mean, you know,
25:32
Speaker 1: you can take and I've seen I've seen strikes on
25:35
Speaker 1: the torso before. But you know, you got to keep
25:38
Speaker 1: in mind that with hammer attacks, just about any kind
25:42
Speaker 1: of blunt force attack, they're going to be very frenzied.
25:46
Speaker 1: They're not real well ordered. But the goal is because
25:51
Speaker 1: if you're wielding a hammer against someone, your ultimate goal
25:57
Speaker 1: is to kill them, okay, and so with these hammer strikes,
26:02
Speaker 1: what you're going to see are going to be these
26:06
Speaker 1: that is, okay, there's a couple of things that we
26:09
Speaker 1: have to throw in here. If each one of these
26:12
Speaker 1: hammer strikes, the hammer is oriented in the manner in
26:18
Speaker 1: which we commonly think of a hammer, where you've got
26:21
Speaker 1: the business end of the hammer that's driving a nail. Okay,
26:24
Speaker 1: if it's perfectly oriented like that, then you're going to
26:28
Speaker 1: get an interesting little laceration sometimes that might have a
26:32
Speaker 1: curve to it that may or may not marry up
26:37
Speaker 1: with the blunt edge of a hammer. If the hammer
26:41
Speaker 1: is textured in any way that surface, like if it's
26:45
Speaker 1: got kind of a herring bone texture to it, I
26:47
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm saying that right. Kind of crisscross.
26:49
Speaker 1: Some of them will be that will actually imprint itself
26:55
Speaker 1: on the skin as an overlying abrasion. Contusions and contusion
27:00
Speaker 1: or two different things. So you'll have that top layer
27:03
Speaker 1: of skin that's erupted as a result of an abrasion,
27:06
Speaker 1: think about skin, the skin, elbow, and then that hemorrhage
27:11
Speaker 1: that kind of eccentrically goes out from that central strike
27:17
Speaker 1: point where the little vessels have been erupted and it's
27:20
Speaker 1: bleeding out those areas are bleeding out in an interstitial tissue.
27:24
Speaker 1: The question is how many times was he struck and
27:28
Speaker 1: how what was the level of lethality, Because just because
27:32
Speaker 1: somebody gets hit in the head with a hammer doesn't
27:34
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they're dead or that they're going to die.
27:38
Speaker 1: Now I can tell you there's high probability you're gonna
27:43
Speaker 1: do some serious injury, and so you're not that's not
27:45
Speaker 1: going to be revealed until you can actually take back
27:49
Speaker 1: the scalp and you look at the under underlying external
27:52
Speaker 1: table of skull. And there's some images that I've used
27:58
Speaker 1: in classes over the years where you know you'll have
28:01
Speaker 1: a depending upon the size of the hammer, the business
28:05
Speaker 1: end as I like to refer to it, because I
28:06
Speaker 1: don't know what the actual name of the end of
28:08
Speaker 1: the hammer is that's struck with the head of the hammer.
28:14
Speaker 1: It's they vary in size, and I've seen like quarter size,
28:21
Speaker 1: like the currency quarter twenty five cents size strikes strike
28:27
Speaker 1: points and you'll actually see a ring I hate to
28:30
Speaker 1: say ring fracture because that's a specific fracture that happens
28:33
Speaker 1: at the base of skull, but it has a circular appearance.
28:37
Speaker 1: Let's just say that and it drives that bit of
28:40
Speaker 1: skull if it detaches completely into the dura matter which
28:45
Speaker 1: covers the brain, and if you hit hard enough, it'll
28:47
Speaker 1: actually go into the brain. So if you get multiple
28:49
Speaker 1: of these strikes where you've got that kind of intrusion
28:53
Speaker 1: into the cranial vault, yeah, there's high probability somebody's going
28:57
Speaker 1: to die. But Dave, I'm I'm fascinated by the fact
29:01
Speaker 1: that he's struck multiple times with a hammer. But you
29:05
Speaker 1: still feel the need not you universal you or I
29:09
Speaker 1: guess the son suspect you. You still feel the need
29:14
Speaker 1: to take an edge weapon and cut your father's throat.
29:17
Speaker 1: That's kind of Is it overkill? Yeah? I mean to me,
29:22
Speaker 1: it is, But why do you need to go that far?
29:26
Speaker 2: Well, Joe, there's something else in this that I wanted
29:29
Speaker 2: to ask you about, regarding the fact that blood spatter
29:34
Speaker 2: was throughout the house. Yeah, And in my head, I'm thinking,
29:37
Speaker 2: you got the front door lock, back door locked. The
29:39
Speaker 2: only window that's open is the bedroom window, and that's
29:42
Speaker 2: where the father's body is found in his bedroom. But
29:45
Speaker 2: blood spatter around the house. All I'm thinking is that
29:52
Speaker 2: the father is trying to get away from the son
29:55
Speaker 2: who is allegedly attacking him. I'm thinking there's a hammer involved,
29:59
Speaker 2: and you're right, he's automny is chasing him. But you've
30:01
Speaker 2: got blood spatter, which means something's being swung, right. I
30:04
Speaker 2: mean it's got to be cast off. Is that's what
30:06
Speaker 2: I think?
30:06
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it can be. It can be cast off.
30:10
Speaker 1: But again you have to kind of couch your terms
30:12
Speaker 1: here a little bit. Uh. I lean more to being
30:16
Speaker 1: conservative with the sorts.
30:17
Speaker 2: This is called knowing just enough to be really wrong.
30:21
Speaker 1: No, you will, Okay, just imagine I always like to
30:25
Speaker 1: use the paintbrush description.
30:28
Speaker 2: And that's where I'm picturing from the hammer.
30:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so every time you now, the first strike
30:33
Speaker 1: that you have with hammer is not going to generate
30:36
Speaker 1: blood more than likely. So when the head is struck,
30:42
Speaker 1: you've got a couple of layers you have to go through.
30:44
Speaker 1: First off, you've got to go through a scalp. Well,
30:47
Speaker 1: hair and scalp. Okay, do you know hair thickness can
30:51
Speaker 1: affect this as well. So if you strike a guy
30:54
Speaker 1: with really thick hair or woman really thick hair as
30:57
Speaker 1: opposed to a bald person, the hair can actually cushion, okay,
31:02
Speaker 1: to a certain degree, and people don't think about that,
31:04
Speaker 1: but it can. You got that dynamic working. But let's
31:08
Speaker 1: just say it's sufficient enough to strike down. You hit
31:12
Speaker 1: that first surface, you've compromised the structural integrity. My contention
31:16
Speaker 1: has always been that you have to strike again in
31:19
Speaker 1: order to kind of put blood onto that surface. That
31:25
Speaker 1: when we talk about cast off, you're drawing the hammer
31:28
Speaker 1: back over the top of your head like you're flinging
31:31
Speaker 1: something over your shoulder, and you kind of are and
31:34
Speaker 1: you'll get this kind of arcing deposition on the walls
31:37
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. Also, if he's swinging, if
31:42
Speaker 1: he's swinging not in the vertical plane but in the
31:44
Speaker 1: horizontal horizontal plane, say he strikes it down side of
31:48
Speaker 1: the head and then draws it back sideways so that
31:51
Speaker 1: you're in the horizontal plane. Then you're throwing blood on
31:54
Speaker 1: the wall to the side. It's not always going to
31:57
Speaker 1: be over the head. I think some people think that
31:59
Speaker 1: all off is over the top of the head, over
32:02
Speaker 1: the shoulder. It can be, and most of the time
32:04
Speaker 1: that's what happens. But if somebody these things are very dynamic,
32:07
Speaker 1: it's not. These things don't occur in a vacuum. Okay,
32:11
Speaker 1: they have to be real careful about the interpretation of
32:14
Speaker 1: blood deposition and thinking about that. And then if he
32:19
Speaker 1: has had I don't know, maybe a moment of obsidity
32:24
Speaker 1: at some point in time where he looks down his
32:26
Speaker 1: hands and you know, he's touched the surface father's body
32:34
Speaker 1: and it's got blood all over it, and then he
32:36
Speaker 1: proceeds to touch the wall, then that's that's transfer blood
32:41
Speaker 1: that you have. So if the instrument that you're utilizing
32:45
Speaker 1: has got blood on it, that blood is going to
32:49
Speaker 1: drip down off of the head of the hammer, down
32:52
Speaker 1: onto the handle of the hammer, you know, transfer onto
32:56
Speaker 1: your hands. And so you know, if he touched the
33:00
Speaker 1: wall with that, if he's got blood on his clothing
33:02
Speaker 1: and he bumps into the wall, that's going to transfer over.
33:06
Speaker 1: So it's really important to try to categorize this blood
33:10
Speaker 1: deposition that you're talking about.
33:12
Speaker 2: Okay, let me ask you this, Joe, because we talked
33:15
Speaker 2: about the neck being sliced his neck, Yeah, ye, all right,
33:19
Speaker 2: And I hate to reference everything to a television show or.
33:22
Speaker 1: A movie, but oh no, that's okay.
33:24
Speaker 2: In the TV show Breaking Bad, the Chicken Guy, he
33:29
Speaker 2: actually there's a scene in it where he actually cuts
33:34
Speaker 2: the neck uses the box cutter to slice the neck
33:37
Speaker 2: open of one of Victor. Actually the guy's name is Victor,
33:40
Speaker 2: and I think and when he does that, he holds
33:42
Speaker 2: him and blood squirts out of his neck. Okay, it's
33:45
Speaker 2: the blood is squirting. Is that going to happen when
33:49
Speaker 2: you slice someone's neck or does it have to be
33:51
Speaker 2: sliced in a perfect way or is that just a
33:53
Speaker 2: movie TV thing?
33:55
Speaker 1: No, it's not just simply a movie TV thing, because
33:58
Speaker 1: what they're demonstrating there is it's kind of arterial spray.
34:04
Speaker 1: They refer to it as and the pressure that's built up.
34:09
Speaker 1: The question is are I think that because arterial arterial
34:15
Speaker 1: deposition of blood has got a very distinct appearance to it.
34:19
Speaker 1: It's not high velocity blood deposition like you see with
34:24
Speaker 1: someone is shot, because the blood becomes almost a histamine.
34:30
Speaker 1: Like I tell my students, if you want to know
34:33
Speaker 1: what high velocity blood deposition looks like, go go home,
34:38
Speaker 1: get an airsolt can of hair spray, and just pump
34:41
Speaker 1: at one time onto your mirror and you'll see kind
34:44
Speaker 1: of what that looks like. It's very particulate and tiny
34:48
Speaker 1: with arterial deposition, particularly if the throat is cut and
34:52
Speaker 1: you've gotten down into a carotid. You know, most of
34:56
Speaker 1: the time veins ooze and artery spray, So if you're
35:03
Speaker 1: into arterial spray in turn, in this case, if you're
35:07
Speaker 1: thinking about akroti that has been sliced, then the heart
35:12
Speaker 1: is still beating. And what's fascinating I've always been fascinated
35:16
Speaker 1: by these people that do the blood interpretation is that
35:23
Speaker 1: as the heart beats and blood is pouring out of
35:28
Speaker 1: or being ejected out of an artery, they can see
35:34
Speaker 1: and this is pretty fascinating. They can see with every
35:39
Speaker 1: contraction of the heart. Then that's fascinating because the blood
35:44
Speaker 1: itself actually presents in a manner in which you can
35:51
Speaker 1: see where every single time the heart beats and it
35:54
Speaker 1: sprays the blood in that direction, boom, boom boom. That's
36:00
Speaker 1: how they come up with these interpretations, which is absolutely
36:04
Speaker 1: fascinating to me that they can do this, and you know,
36:07
Speaker 1: and of course there's all these other things that they do,
36:11
Speaker 1: you know, where they can track somebody's movement. And I'm
36:14
Speaker 1: not talking about a perpetrator, though that does exist. I'm
36:17
Speaker 1: talking about somebody that is initially injured in one part
36:22
Speaker 1: of the house and they egress through the house where
36:27
Speaker 1: maybe they're touching a wall. And I've actually seen blood
36:30
Speaker 1: deposition on a wall day where it starts off at
36:33
Speaker 1: the highest point and it travels downward diagonally as a
36:38
Speaker 1: person is losing their will or their ability to thrive,
36:45
Speaker 1: goes down the wall all the way down the hallway.
36:47
Speaker 1: I'll never forget a case that I had like that
36:49
Speaker 1: until they're dead at the end of the hallway, and
36:51
Speaker 1: you can actually kind of map that by these blood
36:55
Speaker 1: depositions on the wall. And it can come in any
36:58
Speaker 1: number of forms. You've got this pass of dripping that
37:00
Speaker 1: happens that you know, you know famously, We've talked about
37:05
Speaker 1: this with Ellen Greenberg with a blood flowing out of
37:09
Speaker 1: her mouth where gravity is pulling it down. So you
37:12
Speaker 1: get one large droplet of blood and you'll see gravity
37:16
Speaker 1: begin to pull pull that blood downward, Okay, and then
37:21
Speaker 1: or you can have smear, which might be a transfer. Okay.
37:25
Speaker 1: So there's any number of depositions that are out there
37:29
Speaker 1: relative to the blood that are going to tell you
37:31
Speaker 1: a lot about what happened. I'm interested in the end
37:35
Speaker 1: of life for Victor because he's found somebody took the
37:40
Speaker 1: time to put a sheet over him. But there's a
37:47
Speaker 1: lot of activity that took place before that sheet ever
37:50
Speaker 1: got on the body.
37:50
Speaker 2: Dave there is and Joe. You know, as I'm doing
37:54
Speaker 2: a little research on this and found out about the
37:57
Speaker 2: hammer attack and how the father was concerned enough about
38:02
Speaker 2: previous activities by the suspect here his son, Jamie. One
38:07
Speaker 2: thing that had come out is that apparently Jamie had
38:13
Speaker 2: killed Victor's pets, his father's pets. Now they made it
38:18
Speaker 2: plural in reporting, but didn't exactly tell us whether it
38:21
Speaker 2: was cats, dogs, rabbits, birds, I don't know what it was,
38:24
Speaker 2: but he was killing them. And as we look at
38:27
Speaker 2: a man who would say that the reason, you know,
38:30
Speaker 2: when police did catch up with Jamie Contreras, he told
38:33
Speaker 2: them they said, hey, where's your dad, And he said,
38:37
Speaker 2: he's in heaven and he explained how the aliens had
38:42
Speaker 2: taken over him and they took his bowels or what
38:45
Speaker 2: have you. I mean, whatever crazy explanation the guy came
38:47
Speaker 2: up with, but he had this. The same guy, Jamie Contreras,
38:54
Speaker 2: had walked through his neighborhood a couple of years ago
38:59
Speaker 2: carrying a decapitated rabbit. So I guess my thing here, Joe.
39:05
Speaker 2: Is when you've got a guy who's thirty nine years
39:08
Speaker 2: old and two years ago you see him walking through
39:13
Speaker 2: the neighborhood carrying a decapitated rabbit, how is he still
39:19
Speaker 2: walking around outside of a hospital or jail.
39:22
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I really don't.
39:24
Speaker 2: If I saw that right now, Joe, I'd be on
39:26
Speaker 2: the phone with you saying, please call somebody. I mean,
39:28
Speaker 2: I would freak out if somebody was walking I live
39:30
Speaker 2: in a neighborhood. You've see my neighborhood. If I saw
39:33
Speaker 2: somebody walking down the hill in front of my house
39:35
Speaker 2: carrying a bunny rabbit and the head was chopped off
39:38
Speaker 2: and they were walking like, no big deal, I'm freaking out.
39:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got a problem at that point, Tom, And
39:44
Speaker 1: answer to your question. You know, we could talk for
39:47
Speaker 1: days about, you know, mental health in our country and
39:51
Speaker 1: the way the mentally ill or dealt with And you know,
39:56
Speaker 1: we don't know a lot about his background relative to
40:00
Speaker 1: what kind of psychopathology you know he may have have had.
40:03
Speaker 1: But if he just on the surface and played junior
40:07
Speaker 1: psychiatrists here for a second, just on the surface, if
40:09
Speaker 1: you believe that you've had communications with extra terrestrials. You know,
40:16
Speaker 1: this sounds like he's in a delusional state. You know,
40:19
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe he's got schizophrenia or something like that.
40:22
Speaker 1: I've actually worked a case and I mentioned this before,
40:26
Speaker 1: with a young man that took his own life and
40:28
Speaker 1: he didn't intend to, but he he did. And that's
40:34
Speaker 1: because he thought Cia had put a microphone in his
40:37
Speaker 1: forearm and he cut his arm open. I think we
40:40
Speaker 1: over thirty times. He cut his arm. Yeah, no, and
40:45
Speaker 1: he lived with his parents and he was looking for
40:47
Speaker 1: the microphone that was in his forearm. Okay, so I
40:52
Speaker 1: don't you know, I'm not saying that I'm not saying
40:55
Speaker 1: that he should not be held responsible for what he
40:58
Speaker 1: has done to his father. He bloody well should. But
41:03
Speaker 1: the problem is, you don't know what his perception of
41:06
Speaker 1: reality is, you know, if he's and again we go
41:10
Speaker 1: back to this idea of he's killing animals, you know
41:15
Speaker 1: kind of you know, you kind of got a sign
41:17
Speaker 1: there that there's real underlying, you know, kind of a
41:21
Speaker 1: threat of violence that's resting here. And here's another thing
41:24
Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting. If he has got a history,
41:28
Speaker 1: he might not just perhaps be killing his dad's animals.
41:33
Speaker 1: I'd be interested to know if if he has killed
41:37
Speaker 1: anybody else's animals and if he has whatever the sharp
41:43
Speaker 1: instrument that he has chosen to use in this case,
41:49
Speaker 1: was this instrument actually used to kill any animals with?
41:53
Speaker 1: And this is from a forensic standpoint. This is kind
41:55
Speaker 1: of fascinating because you know, I think any of us
42:00
Speaker 1: can walk around and we can say, hey, you know
42:03
Speaker 1: you look down at a red substance that's you know,
42:05
Speaker 1: on a knife blade or laid on or that's deposited
42:09
Speaker 1: on the floor, and you say, hey, that's blood. That's
42:12
Speaker 1: all find good for you and I to have that
42:14
Speaker 1: conversation and say yeah, that's blood doesn't work in court
42:19
Speaker 1: because you have to when you're processing these scenes. There's
42:22
Speaker 1: a whole series of testing that has to go on.
42:24
Speaker 1: First off, you have to do a test that says
42:27
Speaker 1: if this is or is not blood? Okay? You go
42:30
Speaker 1: from that level too, is this animal or human blood?
42:35
Speaker 1: And then you get into typing, you know where you
42:39
Speaker 1: know the old zerology model where you're trying to type
42:42
Speaker 1: the blood and then that spins off into DNA. But
42:46
Speaker 1: you have to establish first an instrument might have blood
42:50
Speaker 1: on it, but wouldn't it be fascinating to learn in
42:53
Speaker 1: this case, if they tested this knife blade and they
42:56
Speaker 1: found remnants of not just mister Contrare his blood on there,
43:00
Speaker 1: but maybe an older sample that's on there that turns
43:04
Speaker 1: out to be a cat or rabbit, a dog, you
43:07
Speaker 1: never know if that's the instrumentality that he that he prefers,
43:12
Speaker 1: because he's obviously got an affinity for sharp weapons, and
43:17
Speaker 1: you know, we haven't he you know, talked about talked
43:20
Speaker 1: about the this disembowlment to take place, which, by the way,
43:26
Speaker 1: we've talked about this with dismemberment. But if you don't
43:28
Speaker 1: have the tools to facilitate disembowlment, it's not an easy process.
43:34
Speaker 1: I think people think that it.
43:36
Speaker 2: Is not just slicing the belly open and everything comes
43:38
Speaker 2: gushing out, right.
43:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like I don't know, I can't remember
43:43
Speaker 1: the Japanese term. It's not Harry Carey, but it's sepuku
43:48
Speaker 1: or I can't remember the kind of ritualized form. It
43:53
Speaker 1: doesn't and that's highly ritualized with very sharp instruments, where
43:58
Speaker 1: there's a specific process that takes place with that with disembowlment,
44:04
Speaker 1: and you know, if you're going to use a household instrument.
44:09
Speaker 1: First off, it have to be very sharp, and you'd
44:12
Speaker 1: have to have certain tolerances built into your own psyche
44:17
Speaker 1: that would allow you to do that, to hover over
44:21
Speaker 1: your dad's body and literally split him wide open. And
44:25
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't just talk about Dave in this case,
44:28
Speaker 1: that this was a disembowlment case. They mentioned organs as well.
44:32
Speaker 1: So I wonder what was found in and out of
44:37
Speaker 1: the body, if anything had been removed, was or all
44:40
Speaker 1: of the organs accounted for? Had they been taken off somewhere?
44:44
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. And that's that's what
44:46
Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating about this case.
44:48
Speaker 2: Ma Man, you were actually right about the term sepekaepuku
44:53
Speaker 2: sepp uku. And it also goes with Harry Carey self disembolment. Okay, okay,
45:01
Speaker 2: I remember that from Tarawa but world War two stuff.
45:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
45:06
Speaker 2: The thing is here, Joe, is when we're dealing with
45:09
Speaker 2: a case where there's a thought that maybe mental illness
45:14
Speaker 2: has come come into play, where there is a I
45:20
Speaker 2: don't want to say every violent act that goes far
45:23
Speaker 2: to you know, cutting people up and things like that,
45:25
Speaker 2: isn't crazy, but to a normal to what we consider normal.
45:29
Speaker 2: I mean, it just seems like way out there. But
45:33
Speaker 2: can you when you're walking a scene, can you actually
45:36
Speaker 2: see a difference in the mental state of the person
45:40
Speaker 2: committing the act. Is there a frenzied, out of control
45:44
Speaker 2: thing that you can find in the evidence or can
45:48
Speaker 2: you not separate anger from crazy, pain from fear?
45:53
Speaker 1: Now, I know what you're saying. I think that if
45:55
Speaker 1: somebody is we'll say, how can I term this? If
45:58
Speaker 1: somebody has psycho pathology going on, okay like that, where
46:03
Speaker 1: they have voices that are telling them perhaps that your
46:08
Speaker 1: dad has been, you know, inhabited by extraterrestrial life. If
46:13
Speaker 1: that's their perception, then it might become more methodical, as
46:19
Speaker 1: opposed to some person that comes home and finds their
46:22
Speaker 1: spouse in bed with another person and they pick up
46:26
Speaker 1: a hammer or a knife and they proceed to kill
46:29
Speaker 1: both people, and that's going to be a very frenzy
46:31
Speaker 1: disordered event. And again, you know, you when profilers look
46:36
Speaker 1: at these sorts of things, I find it fascinating as
46:39
Speaker 1: well that he's been killing animals and we know what
46:41
Speaker 1: that's associated with many times as a lead up. You know,
46:46
Speaker 1: I think that that's something that they would certainly consider
46:51
Speaker 1: and you know, there can be and don't misconstrue what
46:55
Speaker 1: I'm saying here, there can be. I think with a
46:58
Speaker 1: mentally ill there can almost be a ritualized form of this.
47:04
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about like a ritualized killing per se.
47:08
Speaker 1: But if you're listening to an outside voice or what
47:12
Speaker 1: you perceive to be an outside voice, and they're giving
47:16
Speaker 1: you instructions, you put this here, you know you I
47:19
Speaker 1: don't know. You remove this organ and you put it
47:21
Speaker 1: up on the shelf. You remove this organ, you put
47:23
Speaker 1: it there. You need to take this organ and put
47:26
Speaker 1: it in the refrigerator, because that's the key organ. You
47:28
Speaker 1: have to keep it isolated from everything else. Whatever the
47:31
Speaker 1: voice is telling them to do, that's what's directing them
47:34
Speaker 1: at that point in time. Now, if you've got somebody
47:38
Speaker 1: that does have mental illness and they feel as though
47:40
Speaker 1: they're being attacked, then yeah, I would imagine it could
47:46
Speaker 1: leach over into this idea that it's frenzied. But Dave,
47:49
Speaker 1: he he actually admitted, correct me if I'm wrong that
47:53
Speaker 1: he was being told something that kind of initiated this
47:57
Speaker 1: whole thing, or he was making a stay, wasn't He
48:01
Speaker 1: didn't he say something.
48:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was his belief that aliens had taken over,
48:06
Speaker 2: that his father was gone, that his father was no
48:10
Speaker 2: longer there. The person he was looking at was not
48:12
Speaker 2: his father, It was an alien some And actually, you
48:15
Speaker 2: know what I think At this point there have been
48:16
Speaker 2: a number of different things said and or written about
48:20
Speaker 2: this case. It's still fairly new. This is an ongoing
48:23
Speaker 2: issue right now as they try to separate. This began
48:27
Speaker 2: with haven't heard from my dad in a while? You know,
48:29
Speaker 2: that typical call where the son comes to check on,
48:33
Speaker 2: you know, his father, And it turns into this big
48:38
Speaker 2: bag of what in the heck are we dealing with?
48:41
Speaker 2: Are we dealing with somebody who really has checked out
48:43
Speaker 2: from life mentally and is seeing things and hearing things.
48:49
Speaker 2: Does he truly believe that aliens have disemboweled his father
48:53
Speaker 2: and taken over his body? I mean, I don't know
48:55
Speaker 2: what's going on in the guy's psyche or anything else,
48:58
Speaker 2: but I do know this, Joe, if you were going
49:00
Speaker 2: to walk in on that crime scene, which it is
49:02
Speaker 2: a crime scene, regardless of whether the guy's in control
49:06
Speaker 2: of himself, but you're going to have to just you're
49:09
Speaker 2: not going to hear the stories. You're not going to
49:10
Speaker 2: the story of aliens, and that it doesn't impact you
49:14
Speaker 2: until after the fact. And we'll be writing a book
49:17
Speaker 2: because you're going to look at this and tell me
49:20
Speaker 2: what happened based on the evidence.
49:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it will be and and those in the
49:24
Speaker 1: morgue as well, you know when and look, I'd be
49:28
Speaker 1: lying if I said that. You know, pathologists are not
49:31
Speaker 1: filled in on what they've what the police have heard
49:35
Speaker 1: out on the scene. They're going to know that, okay, uh,
49:40
Speaker 1: you know at this point, you know, when he rolls
49:42
Speaker 1: in to the more decomposed by the way, they're only
49:48
Speaker 1: going to have the snatches and hints at things like,
49:51
Speaker 1: for instance, if this guy has been walking around the
49:54
Speaker 1: neighborhood with decapitated animal bodies, he first off, he's going
49:59
Speaker 1: to be known to the local beat unit if they've
50:04
Speaker 1: been called out on domestics there. That information would actually
50:07
Speaker 1: come to the cops at the scene, because what the
50:10
Speaker 1: cops are going to do and are the detectives who
50:13
Speaker 1: are cops, but you have detectives at the scene, they
50:17
Speaker 1: will ask the shift supervisor okay, which might be a
50:22
Speaker 1: lieutenant or a sergeant, and say, hey, have you guys
50:27
Speaker 1: had contact at this house before, and the sergeant, particularly
50:31
Speaker 1: in a case like I can only imagine a case
50:32
Speaker 1: like this, the sergeant is gonna say, what we felt
50:35
Speaker 1: like we need to sit up outside the house out
50:37
Speaker 1: here because we were always getting called here. Have you
50:40
Speaker 1: ever had contact with any people in the house. Yeah,
50:43
Speaker 1: we've talked to the old man because he told us
50:45
Speaker 1: that he was afraid of his son, or we have
50:48
Speaker 1: taken the son aside and said, look, you gotta cool
50:51
Speaker 1: it out, man, You know you can't behave this way,
50:54
Speaker 1: or maybe they've taken the kid in for observation. Again
50:58
Speaker 1: dollars to know, nuts, bet you this kid has gone
51:01
Speaker 1: in probably in the back of a police car an
51:04
Speaker 1: ambulance and taken in for observation at some point in time.
51:08
Speaker 1: That most of the time this kind of thing just
51:09
Speaker 1: doesn't just materialize out of nothing. You know, you're going
51:14
Speaker 1: to have history, and in this case where you've got
51:20
Speaker 1: a young man who has reportedly been saying, as he
51:27
Speaker 1: is related to the police, that he wanted the aliens
51:32
Speaker 1: to give me my power as he struck his dad down.
51:39
Speaker 1: We're going to keep our eye on this case and
51:41
Speaker 1: know that more will probably develop we'll find out what
51:46
Speaker 1: happens here to the sun. Has he been taken in
51:51
Speaker 1: for an evaluation. Is he going to be placed into
51:54
Speaker 1: an area where he can perhaps get help, get medicated,
51:58
Speaker 1: get him in a position where maybe he can stand
52:02
Speaker 1: trial at some point in time, because this is a
52:05
Speaker 1: horrific homicide and somebody has to be held responsible. But
52:10
Speaker 1: we do know this, this man, who obviously loves his
52:15
Speaker 1: children has died at the hand of his own son
52:20
Speaker 1: and was left to decompose in the home where he
52:25
Speaker 1: welcomed them on a regular basis. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
52:30
Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks