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Detroit Tigers Lose Alex Bregman Sweepstakes · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:09
Speaker 1: the ball Terror Terror Network, a Joy Tiger's podcast. I'm
0:12
Speaker 1: here sectly with me as always the man who had
0:14
Speaker 1: player options. You got a girlfriend? He is Cody Stavenaggan.
0:18
Speaker 2: How you doing doing good?
0:20
Speaker 1: Karen.
0:21
Speaker 2: We are here to talk about one thing and one
0:24
Speaker 2: thing only, Alex Brightman. It's over and he's a member
0:27
Speaker 2: of the Boston Red Sox. It's about what I don't know.
0:31
Speaker 2: Ten thirty eleven last night, notification pops up and I
0:35
Speaker 2: saw Red Sox, and then I saw three years, one
0:39
Speaker 2: twenty and that was definitely enough to get a reaction,
0:43
Speaker 2: shorter term than we would have thought and higher aav
0:46
Speaker 2: than we would have thought. And shortly after the Tigers
0:49
Speaker 2: offer comes out, I got that number confirmed, six years
0:54
Speaker 2: in excess of one hundred and seventy one million dollars.
0:57
Speaker 2: In a way, that's the most shocking number because the
0:59
Speaker 2: Tigers offered six years, which we never thought they would.
1:03
Speaker 2: They did it. They offered a fair annual value and
1:07
Speaker 2: they didn't get them. If you would have told me,
1:09
Speaker 2: probably at any point after Winter meetings, the Tigers offered
1:12
Speaker 2: Alex Bregman six years, I would decaid they're going to
1:15
Speaker 2: get them. They did what I didn't think they would do.
1:18
Speaker 2: They made a fair aggressive offer. They lost out to
1:22
Speaker 2: what's also a really attractive offer forty MILLI year. We
1:26
Speaker 2: can debate what Bregman's decision may have came down to.
1:29
Speaker 2: We don't quite know that yet. We may never get,
1:32
Speaker 2: you know, the full insight into his mind. You can
1:35
Speaker 2: probably guess Finway Park First America played a role here.
1:39
Speaker 2: You can probably guess maybe the guy just liked Boston,
1:43
Speaker 2: the prestige of the Red Sox. The Red Sox are
1:46
Speaker 2: giving him opt outs after each year in this contract.
1:49
Speaker 2: The Tigers offered an opt out after twenty twenty six.
1:53
Speaker 2: They did not include an opt out after twenty twenty five.
1:57
Speaker 2: That may have been a sticking point. But there's probably
2:01
Speaker 2: a combination of all these factors a little strange like
2:05
Speaker 2: in a way, you can come away from this like, well,
2:08
Speaker 2: we can't sit here and really knock the Tigers because
2:11
Speaker 2: they exceeded what I ever thought they would offer. At
2:14
Speaker 2: the same time, now they're moving forward without Alex Bregman,
2:17
Speaker 2: and it's fair to have some legit concerns about this
2:19
Speaker 2: team and its offense.
2:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, so obviously a variety of ways to kind of
2:25
Speaker 1: react to it. Sticking with the three for one twenty
2:29
Speaker 1: and the opt outs, I can't say that, like one
2:32
Speaker 1: of the things that I was prepared to talk about
2:36
Speaker 1: was Alex Redman taking a lucrative offer. And there's a
2:40
Speaker 1: couple of ways it could be lucrative, but a lucrative
2:42
Speaker 1: offer to a lesser situation or something that you could
2:48
Speaker 1: pretty clearly see that he just took it for the money,
2:52
Speaker 1: as sometimes that happens. This is not that case. This
2:55
Speaker 1: is not that case. He took a lucrative offer, a
2:59
Speaker 1: optionality even offer from a great situation over there in Boston.
3:05
Speaker 1: You know, he hits like what three sixty at Fenway,
3:08
Speaker 1: His power is gonna come way down, I think I read.
3:11
Speaker 1: But he's just gonna be a doubles machine and he's
3:13
Speaker 1: gonna he's gonna rake. He's gonna rake and Fenway. He
3:16
Speaker 1: does have to play second base. That's come out. He's
3:18
Speaker 1: gonna be playing second base. And if you're the Boston
3:20
Speaker 1: Red Sox, there's no downside to offering and being the
3:26
Speaker 1: acceptance of a three for one to twenty deal, because oh,
3:31
Speaker 1: you're gonna block your prospects. Well, not not really. I
3:33
Speaker 1: think it stands the reason Alex Bregman is going to
3:35
Speaker 1: exercise one of those two player options. And even still
3:39
Speaker 1: it's only three years, right, Number two, it shows you know,
3:43
Speaker 1: we talk about fans and Detroit wanted the team to
3:46
Speaker 1: spend money. That's been a common complaint for a couple
3:48
Speaker 1: of years now, basically before Mookie was traded of the
3:52
Speaker 1: Boston fan base. So this is them showing that they
3:55
Speaker 1: are willing to, you know, spend You're the Boston Red Sox,
3:58
Speaker 1: you should be spending money, and that this is a
4:00
Speaker 1: big three for them. I think if I was Reregman,
4:06
Speaker 1: I would take and we'll even take the parks out
4:08
Speaker 1: of it for a second, I would take three for
4:10
Speaker 1: one twenty with the opt outs more than I would
4:13
Speaker 1: take six for one seventy one with the with the
4:16
Speaker 1: two opt outs in there, right, it was two opt
4:19
Speaker 1: outs total after twenty or just one just one up
4:22
Speaker 1: the Red Sox offer, no the Tigers.
4:25
Speaker 2: The Tigers offer had one opt out one out.
4:26
Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't know if there was one like later
4:28
Speaker 1: in the later in the contract that I'm aware of, Okay, Okay,
4:31
Speaker 1: So my mistake one opt out. To me, it seems
4:39
Speaker 1: like a pretty easy decision because you're still going you know,
4:44
Speaker 1: we know how inflation goes, right, these prices are really
4:46
Speaker 1: going to go up, and he's gonna get the ability
4:48
Speaker 1: to get probably more money after this Red Sox deal,
4:53
Speaker 1: whenever it is than what he was getting right now.
4:56
Speaker 1: So to me, it was it was kind of a
4:57
Speaker 1: no brainer for Bregman to take this. It was a
4:59
Speaker 1: no for the Red Sox to sign off on this,
5:02
Speaker 1: and to be honest, for the Tigers, it was an
5:08
Speaker 1: impressive showing. And sometimes you lose. Sometimes you do everything
5:13
Speaker 1: right and you lose out. And this is the case.
5:16
Speaker 1: When we tell tall tales about the Mike Ilich era
5:20
Speaker 1: and the spending era, we don't include guys that they
5:25
Speaker 1: may have offered lucrative contracts for that didn't take them right.
5:29
Speaker 1: So like, if we're romanticizing that aspect of Mike's tenure,
5:34
Speaker 1: this deserves some sort of romantic aspect of the Chris
5:38
Speaker 1: Illage tenure because we had not seen him the desire
5:42
Speaker 1: or the wherewithal to do something like this, And same
5:44
Speaker 1: thing with Scott Harris. I could only imagine his beating,
5:47
Speaker 1: his heart beating and sweat coming down his eyebrows as
5:50
Speaker 1: he offered a six year contract to someone north of thirty.
5:55
Speaker 1: All right, so you know, give him credit for that.
6:00
Speaker 1: I wanted before we kind of get to like a
6:02
Speaker 1: wins and a winners and losers thing here, Cody, I
6:04
Speaker 1: did want to bring up one point that I haven't
6:09
Speaker 1: seen people talk about, and maybe it's invalid. And if
6:13
Speaker 1: you have talked about it, if you have tweeted about
6:15
Speaker 1: and I missed it, I'm sorry. I'm not plagiarizing here.
6:20
Speaker 1: I think if there's a criticism of this offer from
6:24
Speaker 1: the Tigers based on what we know, it's the opt
6:28
Speaker 1: out after year two. Why is that important? Number One?
6:34
Speaker 1: Your if your main competition is given the opt out
6:36
Speaker 1: after year one, then you're at a disadvantage if you
6:39
Speaker 1: not willing to go there, right Number two, the current
6:44
Speaker 1: collective Bargaining Agreement expires December one, twenty twenty six. Last
6:50
Speaker 1: time we had a work stoppage. All right, I don't
6:54
Speaker 1: get good vibes right now, good indications of harmony in
7:01
Speaker 1: CVA notions. Right now, it's not that long. It's two years.
7:06
Speaker 1: It's not that long from now that we could be
7:08
Speaker 1: staring down the barrel of another work stoppage. If I'm
7:12
Speaker 1: Alex Bregman and if I'm Scott Boris, I want as
7:15
Speaker 1: much leverage as I can before something like that happens.
7:19
Speaker 1: And I mean there's not going to be a salary cap,
7:22
Speaker 1: the players would never agree to it. But if there's
7:24
Speaker 1: anything weird that goes on, maybe a heavy like yeah,
7:27
Speaker 1: all these things that could happen in the CBA negotiation,
7:30
Speaker 1: I want as much leverage as I can before that.
7:34
Speaker 1: So I think that could have been a real sticking
7:38
Speaker 1: sticking point for the Bregman camp, is that they don't
7:41
Speaker 1: want to be beholden to a potential work stoppage and
7:45
Speaker 1: and all the complications that come from that when when
7:49
Speaker 1: they have an opportunity to maximize their value again. So
7:52
Speaker 1: the CBA, I think kind of loomed over their thoughts
7:55
Speaker 1: on this. So any any any any any may have that's.
8:00
Speaker 2: An interesting That's not a take I had heard. That's
8:03
Speaker 2: certainly an interesting thought. A workstop. It doesn't necessarily mean
8:07
Speaker 2: players aren't going to do well. Marcus Simeon and Corey
8:10
Speaker 2: Seeger are Boris clients and did incredible before the last lockout,
8:14
Speaker 2: and the Tigers gave Hobby byas six one forty, So
8:17
Speaker 2: I don't know if that would have played into it,
8:19
Speaker 2: but it would certainly be something that the Boris camp
8:23
Speaker 2: would have to consider. I do find it strange the
8:26
Speaker 2: Tigers weren't willing to give that offer. We talked about
8:29
Speaker 2: this a couple episodes ago. Would you want Bregman for
8:33
Speaker 2: one year? It feels kind of like the old one
8:35
Speaker 2: and done in college basketball, But it's like, sure, you know,
8:40
Speaker 2: why not? I was told they wouldn't do the opt out.
8:44
Speaker 2: Not they didn't, they wouldn't. But I don't necessarily want
8:46
Speaker 2: to harp on this too much because we don't quite
8:49
Speaker 2: know the full story of how these negotiations went down.
8:52
Speaker 2: It may may or may not have actually been a
8:54
Speaker 2: big sticking point. It just does seem a little bit odd.
8:59
Speaker 2: And another question we don't know the answer to. How
9:02
Speaker 2: long had the Tigers had this six year offer on
9:05
Speaker 2: the table. If they're offering this in November, would it
9:07
Speaker 2: have been done? I don't know, but that's a question
9:11
Speaker 2: I certainly have. Again, I just can't come around here
9:16
Speaker 2: and knock the Tigers. There were many points in this
9:18
Speaker 2: offseason where I thought the Tigers would not get Bregman
9:21
Speaker 2: and especially if you know they held out their entire
9:24
Speaker 2: offseason for some four maybe even a five year offer
9:30
Speaker 2: that was going to be worth criticizing them. But they
9:32
Speaker 2: they ponied up a big offer. I do wonder how
9:35
Speaker 2: long that was on the table, because if they weren't
9:37
Speaker 2: that serious until the end of negotiations, that might change
9:40
Speaker 2: how we frame some other things they passed on. At
9:43
Speaker 2: the same time, I kind of get I think hass
9:46
Speaker 2: On Kim is the one guy I wish maybe they
9:49
Speaker 2: would have turned two, and theoretically he was cheap enough
9:52
Speaker 2: you could sign Kim and not be out on Bregman,
9:54
Speaker 2: and Kim could play shortstop. We go down a million
9:57
Speaker 2: rabbit holes here where they're it's probably best to focus
10:01
Speaker 2: on going for where they're at now. They don't have
10:03
Speaker 2: Alex Bregman and they have very few other options, and
10:08
Speaker 2: it kind of raises that question, is this lineup going
10:11
Speaker 2: to be good enough to get the Tigers back into
10:12
Speaker 2: the playoffs?
10:14
Speaker 1: So that's that's the question that will probably forever go unanswered,
10:18
Speaker 1: is did this field was this approached as a Bregman
10:23
Speaker 1: or bust offseason by the front office, because like without
10:30
Speaker 1: the in depth knowledge and inner workings over the past
10:32
Speaker 1: several months. If you had the most lucrative offer on
10:35
Speaker 1: the table for the guy and you had made no
10:39
Speaker 1: other additions in the realm of which that he would
10:44
Speaker 1: perform for you, it makes it seem like it was
10:46
Speaker 1: Bregman or bust and there wasn't any As I always.
10:51
Speaker 2: Give validity to the thing we've heard for like a
10:53
Speaker 2: long time now, which is like the Tigers felt good
10:55
Speaker 2: about that offer, felt good about their offer. We didn't
10:58
Speaker 2: know what that meant for forever, but now now we
11:01
Speaker 2: do now and and now I understand why they felt
11:03
Speaker 2: good about it.
11:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there was no like you know, hyping up
11:07
Speaker 1: of like the j Youngs of the world, Like it
11:11
Speaker 1: seemed like there was a holding pattern out for this.
11:15
Speaker 1: And you know, you could argue the Red Sox didn't
11:17
Speaker 1: need Alex Bregman, so they kind of came in and
11:20
Speaker 1: kind of saw an opportunity. And if you look at
11:21
Speaker 1: their their additions this offseason, it's it's an impressive list.
11:25
Speaker 1: While still having Baseball America Tiger thirty for any annual
11:29
Speaker 1: subscription for thirty percent off any annual subscription, Baseball Maker
11:33
Speaker 1: has a number one farm system, so like Boston's in
11:36
Speaker 1: a really good spot right now. I still feel like
11:38
Speaker 1: the Tigers are in a good spot overall. I would
11:43
Speaker 1: have been fine with the six for one seventy one.
11:45
Speaker 1: There would have been reservations, but I would have been fine
11:47
Speaker 1: with it because it gets your guy. Now, any pivot,
11:50
Speaker 1: there's nothing to pivot this past summer, Cody, I applied
11:53
Speaker 1: for a job. I had like three series of interviews,
11:56
Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't get it, and you asked me,
11:59
Speaker 1: It's like, how do you It's like, well, I mean,
12:01
Speaker 1: I'm obviously disappointed, but I didn't. I know there's nothing
12:04
Speaker 1: to something I ever had, so like, like, I didn't
12:07
Speaker 1: pivot to my current job. Right The Tigers aren't pit
12:11
Speaker 1: right now as of right now, aren't pivoting anything. They're
12:14
Speaker 1: They're rolling with what they've always had, and that appears
12:17
Speaker 1: to be Matt ver Lane and Jayce Young, who are
12:21
Speaker 1: at the top of the list of winners of this
12:25
Speaker 1: of this lack of a transaction, because number one, jays
12:28
Speaker 1: Young is gonna get plenty of run, I would I
12:31
Speaker 1: would think plenty of run in the major leagues, which
12:34
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how he does. There's gonna be
12:36
Speaker 1: a little bit of a of a rallying cry for
12:39
Speaker 1: Jase Young. It's like the bat, the bat, the bat,
12:41
Speaker 1: the bat, and then we'll kind of see about fielding.
12:45
Speaker 1: Matt Vierling is probably the biggest winner, biggest winner if
12:49
Speaker 1: you look at Tiger's Twitter right now, because it's like, Screwpragman,
12:53
Speaker 1: we don't need him. We got Matt vi Lane And
12:54
Speaker 1: here's a highlight of walk off home run in the
12:56
Speaker 1: City connect Jerseys. So well really is a good player.
13:02
Speaker 1: I think you and I have been higher on Bregman
13:04
Speaker 1: for longer than most in our space. But it's not
13:10
Speaker 1: a pivot. It's a all right, this is what we
13:12
Speaker 1: got now, and we gotta go. And are you comfortable
13:16
Speaker 1: with that? Is the question for fans, and that's the
13:18
Speaker 1: question for the front office and the coaching staff.
13:23
Speaker 2: I am curious the Tigers could still do something if
13:25
Speaker 2: they wanted to. I'm not sure there's a move that
13:27
Speaker 2: actually makes sense. But the reality that I keep pointing to,
13:31
Speaker 2: the Tigers need a right handed bat. They had a
13:34
Speaker 2: six to sixty ops against left handed pitching last season
13:39
Speaker 2: that rings I think twenty fourth or twenty fifth in
13:41
Speaker 2: the league. You look at this lineup on paper, just
13:44
Speaker 2: what one more bat could do for you. The problem
13:48
Speaker 2: is there just isn't a great option out there. Ken
13:50
Speaker 2: Rosenthal reported the Cubs interest in Justin Turner, and the
13:54
Speaker 2: Tigers are also mentioned in that story. Justin Turner is forty.
13:57
Speaker 2: He has played I believe twelve games, maybe yeah, twelve
14:02
Speaker 2: games at third base over the past two years. Seven
14:05
Speaker 2: fifty eight ohps against lefties last year wouldn't make a
14:08
Speaker 2: lot of sense. Wouldn't seem to fit the Tigers modus
14:11
Speaker 2: operandi at this point, but who knows. They signed Gio
14:15
Speaker 2: Orchelle last year. And then the name that I'm sure
14:19
Speaker 2: people are gonna mention is Nolan Ronado. I have not
14:22
Speaker 2: heard any whispers of the Tigers being interested into since November.
14:26
Speaker 2: But for that to even be a conversation starter, Arnatto
14:31
Speaker 2: would have to be willing to waive that no trade. Obviously,
14:35
Speaker 2: there are concerns about the declines in his bat speed,
14:38
Speaker 2: the declines in his game. But I kind of hope
14:41
Speaker 2: the Tigers circle back and kick the Tigers on that,
14:44
Speaker 2: just because it would be fun and interesting. But I
14:47
Speaker 2: don't know. In the past, Ronado seems to have made
14:50
Speaker 2: pretty clear he has no interest in Detroit. You could
14:54
Speaker 2: argue the best thing to do is roll with Matt
14:56
Speaker 2: Vierling and Jase Young. Matt Feerling was a three win
14:59
Speaker 2: player last year. He was pretty good. But the other
15:03
Speaker 2: thing that comes to mind is there's kind of this
15:05
Speaker 2: narrative now that like, oh, Matt Vierling's your third baseman,
15:09
Speaker 2: and I don't think that's true because I just think
15:13
Speaker 2: there's still going to be a lot more playing time
15:15
Speaker 2: in right field for Matt Viling theoretically, where he is
15:18
Speaker 2: a better defender. Jase Young would make a lot of
15:21
Speaker 2: sense at third base. Or even a fun exercise, try
15:25
Speaker 2: to drop up the Tigers lineup against left handed pitching.
15:28
Speaker 2: You're gonna want Andy a banyas in that lineup, Andy
15:31
Speaker 2: Banya isn't gonna start a second, so you have Glaber Torres.
15:34
Speaker 2: Would you rather have Andy at third or the outfield?
15:36
Speaker 2: Would you rather have Veerling and right Andy at third
15:40
Speaker 2: or vice versa. I'm going to Andy at third, Vieling
15:42
Speaker 2: and right, and then against right handed pitching, you know,
15:47
Speaker 2: we'll see. I think Zach McKinstry, if he's ends up
15:50
Speaker 2: on this roster, is going to get some run at
15:52
Speaker 2: third base. Jase Young, of course, could be the primary
15:56
Speaker 2: guy against right handed pitching. If he makes that team,
15:58
Speaker 2: I'm sure Verling will play some third, but I don't
16:01
Speaker 2: think we should be referring to him as the third basement.
16:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting thought exercise. And I saw you
16:08
Speaker 1: do it, do it on X and Yeah, I'm to me,
16:12
Speaker 1: it's not much of a conversation against lefties. You're putting
16:15
Speaker 1: a Banyez at third and vie Lane in right. That
16:18
Speaker 1: doesn't that that doesn't seem like I don't have to
16:20
Speaker 1: spend that much cognitive energy on that. And you know,
16:23
Speaker 1: the Matt, the Matt ver Lane piece of this. I'm
16:27
Speaker 1: going to his his stats right now. He was a
16:32
Speaker 1: two point eight offensive war player last year recording the
16:35
Speaker 1: Baseball Reference and a point three defensive War. So stands
16:40
Speaker 1: the reason that higher in right field or center field
16:45
Speaker 1: and then a little bit lower at third base. But
16:46
Speaker 1: he made some plays at third base. It's not like.
16:48
Speaker 2: He's started looking pretty good at third towards the end
16:51
Speaker 2: of the year. Yeah. I think it's a natural position,
16:54
Speaker 2: but he was making some plays over there.
16:56
Speaker 1: I think you can feel comfortable with him at third base,
16:59
Speaker 1: certain more comfortable with that alignment than vice versa. With
17:03
Speaker 1: the Abania is a bearly piece of this, and I
17:09
Speaker 1: keep I keep coming back to the fact that I
17:17
Speaker 1: wish we had better indications of how the brass felt
17:22
Speaker 1: about Jase. Yeah, I know because because I I.
17:28
Speaker 2: Don't like him that much, because they have not come
17:30
Speaker 2: out and said much, you know, positively about him.
17:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, And because there's because I agreed, Like I went
17:37
Speaker 1: through a lot of options, and you know, I try
17:39
Speaker 1: to fight the whole you feel better about what you
17:41
Speaker 1: got thing than otherwise. But I didn't. I was like,
17:45
Speaker 1: is this combo? Am I more comfortable with this? And
17:47
Speaker 1: you know, with the costs? Would this be like We'll
17:49
Speaker 1: just throw Nolan in there. He's thirty four, he's gonna
17:53
Speaker 1: he's gonna make twenty one million, sixteen fifteen after that
17:56
Speaker 1: the next two years, So actually not a lot of
17:58
Speaker 1: money toward the end of that content. But at the
18:01
Speaker 1: same time, you're talking about a player who's already steadily declined.
18:05
Speaker 2: Uh.
18:05
Speaker 1: Like I try to talk myself into is it better
18:09
Speaker 1: to just acquire Nolan Nolan that's gonna cost you nothing
18:14
Speaker 1: and you'll probably get the Cardinals to throw in some
18:16
Speaker 1: money with it as well, and just kind of be like,
18:19
Speaker 1: we at least got to be really good at one
18:21
Speaker 1: defensive position, right like, we gotta be really good at
18:23
Speaker 1: one defensive position, and then you hope you can unlock
18:26
Speaker 1: something in the bat. I went through that exercise, but
18:29
Speaker 1: I kept coming back to I just don't know if
18:32
Speaker 1: I want to limit vier Ling and I still want
18:35
Speaker 1: to figure out what the hell is in Jace Young's bat.
18:39
Speaker 1: And the whole point of the bregmant thing in my
18:41
Speaker 1: mind was you could do both. You could do all
18:44
Speaker 1: three of those things if you signed Bregman to a
18:46
Speaker 1: contract with an opt out after one year or just
18:49
Speaker 1: what the what the Red Sox signed them for so
18:53
Speaker 1: so so, yeah, there is the grass always greener. I
18:55
Speaker 1: don't know, it feels odd to not add anybody, but
19:01
Speaker 1: you can tell me the options that you would like
19:05
Speaker 1: that are available at present moment. I most of the
19:09
Speaker 1: time I kind of come back to, like, let's let's
19:12
Speaker 1: let's see what Jason has. We're gonna throw Andy in there,
19:15
Speaker 1: probably a lot more than we have before, and that's okay,
19:18
Speaker 1: and that's okay.
19:20
Speaker 2: Uh.
19:21
Speaker 1: It would it would have been a lot of fun
19:23
Speaker 1: to see this team with Alex Bregman in the infield
19:26
Speaker 1: there with what he brings offensively, defensively, better in presidents
19:30
Speaker 1: all that. But I always thought they weren't desperate. But
19:34
Speaker 1: then they offered six for one to seventy one, so
19:36
Speaker 1: maybe they maybe they weren't desperate.
19:38
Speaker 2: It's the sign that they really wanted them, and they
19:40
Speaker 2: really wanted them because they know they needed them.
19:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt about that. So let me let me
19:46
Speaker 1: run down a list Cody of the the Regman Sweepstakes
19:50
Speaker 1: Aftermath winners and losers. I'll do winners first, and you
19:54
Speaker 1: can and some of this we've already talked about, but
19:56
Speaker 1: I want to kind of list them out here a
19:58
Speaker 1: little bit. Jay Sng. Matt Vierling, like said, Matt ver Lane,
20:01
Speaker 1: is the the rallying cry of the fan base right
20:05
Speaker 1: now from uh because you know he's he's all afraid
20:08
Speaker 1: to let his motion show on the field. So there's
20:09
Speaker 1: a lot of great highlights you can show. It's like, yeah,
20:11
Speaker 1: that's our guy, you know, Uh. I said, Noel Aeronado's
20:15
Speaker 1: a winner because now he's kind of the bell of
20:17
Speaker 1: the ball of these like established third basemen that are
20:21
Speaker 1: some level, some level to Boston.
20:25
Speaker 2: He wouldn't go to Boston. He can't go to Boston anymore.
20:27
Speaker 2: Maybe he's a loser. Maybe I mean goes to Detroit.
20:30
Speaker 2: I think Arnatto would be where he wanted to be
20:32
Speaker 2: with the Red Sox.
20:34
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe maybe he is a loser, But at
20:37
Speaker 1: least pr wise, right now he's a winner. I put
20:40
Speaker 1: Scott Harrison Chris Ilitch, like I said, they show the
20:43
Speaker 1: want to do something, at least, you know, perception wise,
20:46
Speaker 1: maybe I'll say their perception. They showed the notion to
20:50
Speaker 1: do something that we weren't sure was really in the cards.
20:53
Speaker 1: And uh, and I put pretty much anybody that has cape,
20:57
Speaker 1: that's near the top of the system, that has capability
20:59
Speaker 1: of playing third base as a winner right now, because
21:02
Speaker 1: injuries are going to happen and you might get your
21:06
Speaker 1: shot here, which if Bregman signed for six one seventy
21:09
Speaker 1: one seemed less likely.
21:12
Speaker 2: So yeah, and how you Lee is someone no one's
21:15
Speaker 2: really talking about it. And I couldn't be ready to
21:17
Speaker 2: start the season, but by July August he certainly could be.
21:21
Speaker 2: I don't think it's coincidence he began playing some third
21:24
Speaker 2: base last year. Some of the other names you mentioned,
21:27
Speaker 2: Chris Ilich, guy's definitely a winner here. Anyone who says
21:32
Speaker 2: Chris slich is cheap. He can point to it, well,
21:34
Speaker 2: I signed Hobby and I signed Eduardo, and then the
21:36
Speaker 2: next time we were ready to spend, I made what
21:38
Speaker 2: could have been a winning offer for Alex Bregman. The
21:43
Speaker 2: guy's shown an adequate level of investment in his baseball team.
21:46
Speaker 2: The Bregman offer again kind of blown every one's mind
21:50
Speaker 2: by the fact they went six years. Scott Harris is
21:53
Speaker 2: really the tough one here because I don't know if
21:57
Speaker 2: he burned the quarters zips or not Kieran, but he
21:59
Speaker 2: went six years. You know, he did it. I don't
22:02
Speaker 2: know the dynamics of how all this played out, but
22:04
Speaker 2: he did it. He was aggressive with the Scott Boars client,
22:10
Speaker 2: and yet he lost. Signing Bregman would have been probably
22:14
Speaker 2: the defining move of his tenure. Whether it went great
22:17
Speaker 2: or it went poorly, that is what he would probably
22:20
Speaker 2: largely be judged on. Missing on Bregman. We may not
22:23
Speaker 2: talk about as much three, four or five years from now,
22:27
Speaker 2: but he also missed the chance maybe to kind of
22:29
Speaker 2: have a crowning achievement or something that could just accelerate
22:33
Speaker 2: the Tiger's path to winning a World Series. So unfortunately,
22:37
Speaker 2: I think it's a loss for Scott Harris doesn't mean
22:40
Speaker 2: he didn't try, doesn't mean he didn't do a good job.
22:42
Speaker 2: Sometimes the quote I keep mentioning, it's just it's not
22:46
Speaker 2: a try hard league, you know, and there are no
22:48
Speaker 2: moral victories here. Now you just are where you are.
22:51
Speaker 2: And you throw aj Hinch in that too. This is
22:53
Speaker 2: his old player someone. Surely he probably did his best
22:57
Speaker 2: recruiting effort for someone I think he desperately wanted. He's
23:01
Speaker 2: not gonna be able to publicly come out and say
23:03
Speaker 2: much about that, given he's got twenty six other guys
23:06
Speaker 2: in the clubhouse. He's loyal too, But I think A. J.
23:09
Speaker 2: Hinch really wanted Alex Bregman, so ultimately I had a
23:12
Speaker 2: feeling he didn't wake up with a good taste in
23:14
Speaker 2: his mouth Thursday morning.
23:16
Speaker 1: Scott Harris and aj Hinch are at the top of
23:19
Speaker 1: my loser column as well, for the reason that you
23:22
Speaker 1: just say you just laid out. Scott Harris, in my opinion,
23:24
Speaker 1: is a winner and a loser just because he's not
23:27
Speaker 1: a loser, but just because like it's a winner loss business.
23:30
Speaker 1: He didn't get him, So you can't just you can't
23:32
Speaker 1: just be on the winning side so uh, so he's
23:34
Speaker 1: on there infield defense, going back to that Nolan comment
23:38
Speaker 1: I made, as that's a that's a loser right now.
23:42
Speaker 1: Uh And also outfield defense is a little bit of
23:45
Speaker 1: a loser because now Matt Bierling's talents are gonna be
23:51
Speaker 1: more split than they otherwise would be right because if
23:53
Speaker 1: he's in the outfield more, he's a really good defender there,
23:56
Speaker 1: you know. So that so there's there's you go. Defense
23:59
Speaker 1: takes a step back, and related to that, Joey Korra
24:02
Speaker 1: is a loser, not only because now he has a
24:05
Speaker 1: less talented infield to work with. Defensively, he lost to
24:09
Speaker 1: his brother, and you and I both have brothers. You
24:11
Speaker 1: don't want to lose to your brother. So so Joey
24:14
Speaker 1: Korra is a loser. The perception of the Tigers takes
24:18
Speaker 1: a little bit of a hit, and now it's perception
24:21
Speaker 1: of the Tigers or perception of Comerica Park. However you
24:24
Speaker 1: want to talk to yourself in and out of that weave,
24:27
Speaker 1: is that like you lost out to the Boston Red
24:28
Speaker 1: Sox on what you could say is a better deal,
24:31
Speaker 1: I would take Red Sox deal, like I said, but
24:35
Speaker 1: more years more you know guarantee, you know, more guaranteed money,
24:38
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You lost out there. And if k
24:40
Speaker 1: America is really a hindrance, if you believe that, this
24:44
Speaker 1: would be like evidence for that. And then lastly, I
24:48
Speaker 1: am a loser because as this process went out or
24:54
Speaker 1: played out, I thought that I was hoping it would
24:58
Speaker 1: be like a noon Eastern Sunday announcement there's no more football,
25:02
Speaker 1: there's nothing really anything going on, NBA All Star Games
25:05
Speaker 1: later that day, whatever, and that would mean that I
25:09
Speaker 1: could do a podcast with you, Cody, and I wouldn't
25:11
Speaker 1: have to go do something with my in laws. So
25:14
Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping for that. Now that's taken
25:16
Speaker 1: away from me, and so therefore I am a loser.
25:21
Speaker 2: Well, I think this is the final time we will
25:24
Speaker 2: devote the bulk of an episode to Alex Bregman. Once again.
25:27
Speaker 2: I think I'm about out of Alex Bregman thoughts. We're
25:30
Speaker 2: already at twenty five minutes here. Do you do you
25:32
Speaker 2: want to get onto a couple other topics real quick?
25:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's move on to somebody who did choose you,
25:38
Speaker 1: you being the Tigers big signing, Sean Breva, John Breva,
25:43
Speaker 1: the signing that was announced to divert our attention from
25:46
Speaker 1: what was about to go down.
25:49
Speaker 2: I was deep looking up John breba fastball stats.
25:55
Speaker 1: So this is this is actually a relatively complicated contract
25:59
Speaker 1: for like for like really is I can't even.
26:03
Speaker 2: Do it off the top of my head.
26:04
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like it could be worth up to
26:06
Speaker 1: fourteen million over two years or something like that. I
26:08
Speaker 1: think I read a lot of incentives for there's a
26:11
Speaker 1: lot of incentive.
26:12
Speaker 2: In games finished, which would hint like could he be
26:16
Speaker 2: a closer? I don't seems like a stretch, but maybe
26:19
Speaker 2: they just threw that in there to appease the agents, Like,
26:22
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's a it's an interesting contract, basically
26:25
Speaker 2: one year club option for a second year. Rebia was
26:29
Speaker 2: pretty bad era in the fives and fifty five innings
26:33
Speaker 2: last year, but he was with Scott Harris with the Giants.
26:38
Speaker 2: Misses a lot of bats, so it gets that swinging
26:40
Speaker 2: miss component in the bullpen. His slider he still throws
26:44
Speaker 2: almost fifty percent of the time. It was horrible last year,
26:46
Speaker 2: negative eighteen run value. But the Tigers signed him, I
26:49
Speaker 2: think largely because they really like his fastball gets a
26:53
Speaker 2: lot of in zone with grades out really well and
26:56
Speaker 2: the stuff plus plots that I continue to men. I
27:00
Speaker 2: think they want him to pump that fastball in there
27:03
Speaker 2: and maybe make some other slight tweaks to the Arsenal.
27:08
Speaker 2: Breby is a funny guy, Madam. I ask him, what
27:11
Speaker 2: you know what tweaks might be in store, and he said, well,
27:14
Speaker 2: I was trying to throw left handed and it didn't
27:16
Speaker 2: go very well. So guys got a sense of humor.
27:20
Speaker 2: He seems great. My one question here, like I get
27:24
Speaker 2: the signing like it wasn't it's not sexy. My one
27:29
Speaker 2: thing is just kind of like do they need him?
27:31
Speaker 2: Because this was already going to be a pretty fierce
27:33
Speaker 2: bullpen competition, and now you bring in this guy who's
27:36
Speaker 2: a little bit of a project, and it's going to
27:38
Speaker 2: occupy a spot from you know, maybe the chances of
27:42
Speaker 2: us seeing a casey miser Matt Manning convert to a
27:46
Speaker 2: reliever and maybe become very good in that role seemed
27:48
Speaker 2: to diminish it a little bit with this. So I
27:50
Speaker 2: have no problem with the Breva signing. I'm kind of
27:52
Speaker 2: interested to see what he will become. But even though
27:57
Speaker 2: you can never have enough pitching. I don't know, like
28:01
Speaker 2: I just didn't really think the Tigers needed another reliever
28:04
Speaker 2: unless it was going to be like a high power
28:06
Speaker 2: to establish closer type.
28:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, obviously it's not like huge money.
28:11
Speaker 1: But and to be honest, at this point, with Campbell
28:15
Speaker 1: Ray starting and being like a like any signing that
28:19
Speaker 1: Scott Harris makes like over like one million dollars in
28:22
Speaker 1: the bullpen, I'm gonna be like, oh, they must't really
28:24
Speaker 1: like this guy, you know, because I guess because again,
28:26
Speaker 1: like I would like you thought like there was not
28:29
Speaker 1: any certainly wasn't a need with a capital N, but
28:33
Speaker 1: like it must have been like a signing of opportunity
28:38
Speaker 1: more so than just like you know, trying to fill
28:41
Speaker 1: spot and it's going to be you know, And I
28:44
Speaker 1: think fans should have a like a blind faith and
28:48
Speaker 1: like when they when they bring somebody in in the bullpen,
28:53
Speaker 1: dogs agree when they bring somebody in the bullpen, that
28:57
Speaker 1: that they have an idea in a specific use for
29:00
Speaker 1: a guy like this. Speaking of bringing in pitching, though,
29:05
Speaker 1: also got Jack Flaherty. We heard from Jack Flaherty for
29:09
Speaker 1: the first time seeing him. You know, Cody, I swear
29:12
Speaker 1: it was just this time last year. It felt like
29:14
Speaker 1: last year he was wearing the number nine and pitching
29:18
Speaker 1: in Lakeland, and you know, it didn't seem that long
29:21
Speaker 1: ago that he was doing that. But Jack Flaherty is
29:24
Speaker 1: back and we heard from him. What was Jack flaerty
29:26
Speaker 1: like right now? On the return?
29:29
Speaker 2: Jack is Jack? Jack stays himself. I asked him why
29:32
Speaker 2: free agency was hard, and he said, I could tell you,
29:36
Speaker 2: but I won't. There's a lot of dumb reasons, reasons
29:39
Speaker 2: that don't really make any sense. I say that business
29:42
Speaker 2: is the business, but some of it wasn't real business like.
29:47
Speaker 2: I don't really know what that means. I wish he
29:50
Speaker 2: would just tell me the real reasons, because now I'm interested.
29:52
Speaker 2: What do you mean it wasn't business like, I like,
29:55
Speaker 2: assault your character or something. So I don't know, but
29:59
Speaker 2: we did hear from Jack. Obviously he's happy to be
30:01
Speaker 2: back in Detroit. He was frustrated with free agency, but
30:05
Speaker 2: I think he's at peace with how it ended up
30:07
Speaker 2: and seems ready to, uh to make the most things
30:10
Speaker 2: here with the Tigers.
30:12
Speaker 1: And he became a little bit more crucial because, uh,
30:16
Speaker 1: sometimes things just go ahead and work out. Alex Cobb, Uh,
30:22
Speaker 1: if there was no Flairty signing. How how and then
30:25
Speaker 1: you miss out on on Alex Brugman and it's the
30:28
Speaker 1: same week that that, you know, they announced Cobb is
30:32
Speaker 1: going to be out for a bed. He's not gonna
30:34
Speaker 1: be ready for opening day. Uh. That was that was
30:37
Speaker 1: the first Maybe that should have been the omen that
30:39
Speaker 1: just like maybe good things weren't gonna happen this week,
30:41
Speaker 1: but uh, hopefully he's all right, But this was a
30:43
Speaker 1: concern just in general that something like this could happen.
30:46
Speaker 1: Then you read like the explanation. It's not the most uh,
30:50
Speaker 1: it's not the most endearing of situations that makes you think, oh, yeah,
30:53
Speaker 1: this will be all right, you know.
30:55
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a guy with a history of basically
30:57
Speaker 2: every injury you can think of, and he's had surgery
31:00
Speaker 2: on both hips. I kind of chuckled when the injury
31:03
Speaker 2: report popped up and Alex Cobb was on there said
31:08
Speaker 2: he's got a p RP injection. Didn't really know what
31:10
Speaker 2: that meant. We asked aj Hinch and it was like, well, yeah,
31:13
Speaker 2: he has to rest basically shut down for seven or
31:16
Speaker 2: eight days. The anti inflammatory properties of the shot kick
31:20
Speaker 2: in and then you kind of have to build up
31:21
Speaker 2: from zero, So he's going to be set back a month,
31:24
Speaker 2: which means he's not gonna be ready to throw a
31:26
Speaker 2: full workload by opening day. He's almost certainly going to
31:30
Speaker 2: begin opening day on the injured list, which is not
31:34
Speaker 2: a great way to start the Alex cob Era I
31:36
Speaker 2: never had a problem with this signing. I think he
31:39
Speaker 2: can be pretty good if he's healthy, but that was
31:41
Speaker 2: always the question if he's healthy, and he's not starting
31:45
Speaker 2: off healthy a little bit concerning. But Jackson job Stock
31:50
Speaker 2: is back. Baby. Just when we're ready to take Jackson
31:53
Speaker 2: job out of the rotation, another spot opens. Kintamaida coming in,
31:58
Speaker 2: built up, throwing in his bullpen. I'm telling you, I
32:01
Speaker 2: think they're going to give it a run. Another guy
32:05
Speaker 2: man just watching bullpens. It means nothing, but it's still
32:08
Speaker 2: kind of hard to quit. Casey Mies. So if you
32:10
Speaker 2: wanted a reason to option Jackson Joe, it's the guy
32:13
Speaker 2: who used to be the shiny new prospect.
32:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I used to be Jackson Joe. Uh. And then
32:20
Speaker 1: speaking of things that don't matter and over reaction city,
32:24
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of fun to talk about because
32:26
Speaker 1: we all knowledge it doesn't matter. Uh, Specier Tourglesen hit
32:30
Speaker 1: a home run today and uh in bolth in uh
32:33
Speaker 1: batting practice, and I think it's a sign of things
32:36
Speaker 1: to come. No, I'm just kidding. But we see special,
32:39
Speaker 1: we see special Torglsen. He's back. And I bring this
32:43
Speaker 1: up just basically because I want to know, like, what
32:49
Speaker 1: what is where is his mind at and and what
32:53
Speaker 1: is a mountain to climb in order to be an
32:56
Speaker 1: impact player in the major leagues this year and want
33:00
Speaker 1: to go extreme like potentially period. You know, these are
33:03
Speaker 1: these that's kind of stakes that we have here. You know,
33:06
Speaker 1: he has a quote in there about not wanting to
33:08
Speaker 1: watch video as circulating around your impression of seeing Spencer
33:13
Speaker 1: Trgosen for the first time since his demotion.
33:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he seemed in pretty good spirits, he said.
33:20
Speaker 2: You know, I think at least he was real about
33:23
Speaker 2: the situation and real about the fact he hasn't performed
33:26
Speaker 2: consistently and seemed to like understands his state in the
33:30
Speaker 2: organization rather than being in denial about it. But I
33:34
Speaker 2: was actually talking to Colt Keith for the duration or
33:38
Speaker 2: the majority of Spencer Toorkeles and Scrum, So I wasn't
33:40
Speaker 2: there for the whole thing. I will have to one
33:43
Speaker 2: day reveal the secrets of the contents of my cult.
33:46
Speaker 2: Keith Interview the Tourklesen, Yeah, I wasn't there when he
33:52
Speaker 2: said the quote about like not watching video and stuff.
33:55
Speaker 2: I don't like. This is a guy who for a
33:57
Speaker 2: long time has needed to get out of his own head.
34:00
Speaker 2: And I think he was just trying to say like, yeah,
34:01
Speaker 2: I'm trying to consume less information and just play. But
34:05
Speaker 2: he said it in a poor way where he was
34:07
Speaker 2: bound to get roasted. And I'm sure the Tigers coaches
34:10
Speaker 2: saw that and said, dud, you know, like come on,
34:11
Speaker 2: you have to watch like a little bit of video.
34:14
Speaker 2: In a way, you can cut some guys to cut
34:16
Speaker 2: the guy some slack in a way. It's just been
34:18
Speaker 2: a frustrating run for spencertoricles. And I guess cool that
34:22
Speaker 2: you know he thinks he's he's maybe can play a
34:24
Speaker 2: little looser, maybe not be locked on the iPad the
34:28
Speaker 2: whole time, but also in a way like I don't know,
34:31
Speaker 2: no way for that quote to look good, I don't think.
34:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean my thought on that was like I
34:37
Speaker 1: care less about you watching video than people watching video
34:40
Speaker 1: of you and being able to instruct you. You see
34:43
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
34:44
Speaker 2: So it's a good way.
34:45
Speaker 1: So that was my interpretation. It was never gonna like especially.
34:50
Speaker 2: Like go to him and follow up on this a
34:53
Speaker 2: little bit, or it's worked. If you want to come
34:54
Speaker 2: on Tiger territory.
34:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, more and welcome, more and welcome. We can talk
34:58
Speaker 1: about Big twelve football. Now Arizona States in the Big twelve.
35:00
Speaker 1: So so so Yeah, I thought like I didn't think
35:06
Speaker 1: that was that big a deal, to be honest, but
35:09
Speaker 1: it was like right for social media, just right for it.
35:12
Speaker 1: And last last little nugget here we're looking at because
35:16
Speaker 1: we didn't know this for sure, hobby or bias, your
35:20
Speaker 1: opening day starting shortstop seems like it's gonna be a thing,
35:26
Speaker 1: could be a thing.
35:26
Speaker 2: It seems entirely possible. It might depend on who the
35:29
Speaker 2: Dodgers want to pitch opening day in what hand they
35:31
Speaker 2: throw with. I don't maybe they're going to try to
35:35
Speaker 2: get all they can out of hobby bias. I have
35:37
Speaker 2: a hard time envisioning him being like an everyday short stop.
35:40
Speaker 2: It sounds like they think he can be healthy and
35:43
Speaker 2: ready to be on the opening day roster Hobby's not
35:46
Speaker 2: yet reported to camp, but he will soon and then
35:48
Speaker 2: we can get some Hobby bias takes that I'm sure
35:52
Speaker 2: will be ripe for social media.
35:55
Speaker 1: Absolutely. All right, well, this is this is this was awesome, Cody.
35:59
Speaker 1: It's the end of it. After of Tiger Territory, basically,
36:03
Speaker 1: really the entirety of Tiger Territory's existence. Has been speculating
36:08
Speaker 1: about Alex Bregman because we started this vertical of the
36:11
Speaker 1: podcast right after the season ended. So, uh, that chapter closed,
36:17
Speaker 1: and we can and we can move on with our lives.
36:19
Speaker 1: We'll see what the next chap, what's in store for
36:21
Speaker 1: the next chapter. You can follow us on x firmly
36:24
Speaker 1: known as Twitter at Cody Stavenhagen. I am at Kieran
36:27
Speaker 1: Underscore Steckley pod pages at Tiger Territory Underscore, follow us
36:31
Speaker 1: on YouTube, follow us on Instagram, follow us wherever you
36:34
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and we will get this thing fired
36:37
Speaker 1: up as spring training is officially underway, So for Cody Stavenhagen,
36:42
Speaker 1: I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have a great weekend.