Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Worth Beyond Work | The Three, Business & the Deeper Question with Erin Port

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Worth Beyond Work | The Three, Business & the Deeper Question with Erin Port · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes I equated achievement and love as one.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I got those tangled a lot.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so now looking back, I see how I mistyped myself.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: But my core motivation is always achievement.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: God doesn't say it has to be perfect.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: God just says, give it all you've got.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I swear that's what I try to do, right?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I want.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then I give it back to Him.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say I think that's the thing that I've learned is to be vulnerable.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's where people connect with you in a way that your achievements never will.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: As a three, being able to say it's okay if we don't have it together all the time.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Again, God knows that we don't have it all together.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yay, here we are.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Week four of the Enneagram 3.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I am just loved the variety of conversations.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Each month I've been shocked, amazed, surprised, delighted by what I'm learning about each type along the way, the stories that are surfacing.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so today, it just makes perfect sense that I get to have the Erin Port from Simple, Purposeful, Living.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: She is the star of today.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so excited to have you here.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Erin, for saying yes to this.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, of course.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's a delight.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited to be here.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Your book ministered to my heart in my journey and just was another tool in helping me figure out who God made me to be, how I can show up in this world.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for the hard work you're doing.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: It really is making an impact.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you, Erin.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I love seeing what you're doing.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so much that are aligned in our desire for the purposeful element of living.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: That just unites us quickly.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, our love for Jesus.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're in what we call Aliverse.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that means we share a circle in a mastermind community that has just been a wonderful place where we've gotten to meet, get to know each other, share business story.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But that I want to start a conversation there essentially because it was in your coaching for business that there were some aha moments that led to rediscovering your true Enneagram type.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So take us back to that moment.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: So for years, I thought I was an Enneagram too.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was, I thought of myself as the helper.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that I received love by helping and um I felt rejected if they didn't accept my love or accept my help.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so we were having this conversation in one of my coaching calls.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And in only the Alley fashion, she said, I don't think you're an Enneagram 2.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, excuse me.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: She was you're an Enneagram three.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like I was having an identity crisis.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, oftentimes Christian women are often mistyped as an Enneagram 2, which made sense because she said, oftentimes we are praised for helping others.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a firstborn daughter.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's another reason why I think I was one.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: We moved every two years.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you knew my childhood, you'd know that I was always the helper.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so oftentimes I equated achievement and love as one.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I got those tangled a lot.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so now looking back, I see how I mistyped myself.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: But my core motivation is always achievement.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel valuable if I'm achieving, which sometimes comes as helping, right?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I'm, especially as a mom and as a caregiver, if I'm helping you, then I feel achievement.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I can see how these two aligned, but it really knocked my socks off.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh gosh, now I have to go back to the drawing board and think about who I am.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: But so much of my fears when I would name them out loud came from not succeeding, right?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I'm not growing, I'm dying.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm not, you know, doing this, then I'm then I'm failing.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was a lot of either you're achieving or you're not.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that really is more of the Nagram three.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so that was kind of the start of my new journey, typing myself in a new way.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting because I think sometimes we can read things from an angle or a lens of what we think.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's so important that we continue to allow self-discovery because I think that's the thing it taught me.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, actually, I was looking at that from a certain lens, and having somebody else or reading another resource helped broaden my perspective.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And perspective is so key because, to your point, you were performing helpful things in order to feel successful.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's that next underneath layer of the why that kind of gave the orientation correctly.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the two is still part of your story.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, the two-wing plays into it, and this is it's worth paying attention to, even of going, oh, maybe the four-wing isn't as engaged as compared to the two for because of nurture.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So paying attention, understanding that from a perspective standpoint.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would be kind of curious to hear, and I love Ali's blunt look way.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's been on the podcast before.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: She has, she's a seven that's self-prez and self-preservation and that strong wing.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think it is that you were saying or what was going on?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: What was she hearing that made her go?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because she's not an Enneagram post, but made her kind of wave a, hey, you might want to pay attention to this.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think what you are what you think you are.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it all started when I was, I've owned my company for a long time.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we rode the high of business for a long time until we kind of hit the slump that everybody else hit, like 2023.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of when I brought Ali on because what I had always done wasn't working anymore.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And what I noticed, and I think what she heard was my value then took a hit.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was no longer valuable, right?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like when my numbers didn't produce what I thought that they should produce, I internalized that as I'm a bad person.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have what it takes.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not valuable.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not worthy.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: People are gonna figure that out.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so that is, I really it came down to the numbers.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like the numbers kind of either made me feel valuable or they didn't.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: That is something that Dean and I specifically talked about the start off this month is the the unseen matric that a three holds.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's this majoring stick almost holding up to everything they're doing.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did it match the outcome, match the expectation that they hoped for?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And was it good enough?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Was it successful?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And anything short of that tends to feel like a failure, which it's not, but that is the inner dialogue often happening.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's exhausting, I would imagine, and oftentimes defeating to run with that in the back of your mind.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: I have to know, Amy, did the people that set up the world, were they a bunch of Enneagram threes?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because for me, everything that measures the world's success, whether you are an author, which you are, whether you're a business owner, whether you're uh it fill in the blank, whatever you are.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's an award, there is an accolade.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't achieve it as an Enneagram three, like you said, it's a failure.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I wrote my first book and my Allie right away goes, just so you know, you're probably not gonna win any awards.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And immediately I felt my blood pressure rising.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what do you mean?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think I said it nicer than that, but internally I was like, well, if I don't win an award for this book, it was a waste of my time.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I thought inside.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Why would I go about doing something if I couldn't do it really well and get the measurement of external success?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that's been the hardest part for me of owning a business is it feels a little bit like I'm settling for mediocrity.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how else to say it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it feels like sometimes.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like I'm spinning my wheels, doing the things.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I for the longest time I was looking back, I keep my prayer notes from year after year, and I was reflecting because we're getting to the last 90 days of the year.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the biggest things that my therapist said to me years ago that I didn't believe at first is A plus D does A plus B does not always equal C.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And as an achiever, I want it to be so because when I was growing up, the way the system worked in school was Erin works hard, she does what she's supposed to do, and she gets an A.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and that was the system I lived by.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started my business, and so Erin works hard, she does what she's supposed to do, and her business will flourish.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that doesn't always work out, and that's really frustrating as a three.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: But something that Allie said to me just yesterday was if God had let your business flourish, you would have never healed and gotten healthy.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, absolutely, absolutely, but man, it's been uh fall on your knees, get back up again, try again with more information over and over again.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you bring up a beautiful thing to point out is that, and where I have a lot of compassion for our three, is that the world systems, maybe even specifically the Western world systems, are very matric focused.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I hear the exhaustion behind that, the weariness, the disappointment, heavy burden.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I've gotten to witness from definitely the sidelines.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not necessarily first year, but I've witnessed some of the healing that has taken place from the revelation, from allowing the Lord to prune in some of the slow season.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I speak to the woman, even of the person who has put in the effort, because the effort oftentimes has an outcome.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: There is a reward, there is an opportunity, there's something to show for it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we have all gone through seasons, or we're going to, where we're putting in a lot of effort and our hands feel empty in comparison.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that you've learned along the way, or what the Lord has spoken, even as a big sister, if you will, that you would share with others?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, sometimes it's necessary to lay things down.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the exercises Allie really encouraged me to do, which feels counterintuitive when you run a business, was not to run any numbers.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: I could do my profit and loss, but that was it.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't look at my goals, I couldn't look at my revenue from last year, I couldn't look at the numbers on the podcast, the numbers on Instagram, I couldn't look at any numbers for the first quarter of this year.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it was so hard because I had in the past, every week, faithfully looked at the numbers.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I told myself, if, you know, what we don't check, we don't engage with, right?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So like I had told myself, I'm doing this because then I'll be better and I'll be able to pivot more.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: But what I found was when I was willing to lay it down, and it was an act of faith and obedience to God, I came back with a healthier understanding.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: My worth was no longer tied to those numbers.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And what I found was those numbers could then become evidence and data points in a way that they couldn't before.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now I could look at them and say, okay, this isn't actually about me.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I'm being perfectly honest, this is so humbling.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: If I look back and say simple purposeful living was probably a lot about me for a long time, like full disclosure as an Enneagram three, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because like it's what am I building?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: What am I doing?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's embarrassing.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: But full disclosure, that's how threes are, right?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I wouldn't have necessarily ever said that, but underneath that was always the piece, right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so once I came back a little bit healthier, having set that down, I could say, okay, these numbers aren't about me or my worth or my value.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I showed up, I was faithful, but this is data to help me then better plan and execute and serve my audience, which is ultimately what it's all about at the end of the day.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I would say to the woman who maybe is a step behind me, is there something that you're clinging on to so tightly?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not sure, maybe ask a friend, a coach, but could you lay it down for a season and just see if that changes your perspective with a little space and time?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: That would be my first step.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's a wonderful step.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I love about just how you model business is that you are also raising a family, leading a family.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's part of what you share is the tips and tricks and the big sister advice along the way to how have you seen separating out worth and work benefiting your family?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: How's that fruit shown up?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there is an important piece here where we can begin to understand the value of the trade-off.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is a trade-off when we begin to do the healing work.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I went when I started my healing journey.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was gosh, two-ish, like about two and a half years ago is when I finally went to counseling.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I knew I needed to go for a long time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: God was speaking to me for a long time, but I was stubborn because the Enneagram 300.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Most of us are, I'm gonna figure this out and I'll achieve it on my own.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Spoiler, that didn't work out so well.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what I found was I thought going was solely for me.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I almost felt selfish putting that time aside.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: But what I saw was it had a ripple effect on the way that I showed up because I was, I'm a different mom now.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I recognize my own stuff.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I recognize the way that bleeds into the way I parent, right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like it used to be that I expected per, I wouldn't say perfection, but I had very high expectations of my kids, partly because I know that they're capable, but to their detriment at times, where I was focused on their achievement and I realized very quickly that if I wasn't careful, I was gonna create another generation of kids that equated love with achievement, which is what how I had.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so now the conversation is a lot more about I really see your effort that you put in there, or I am really proud of you for showing up and doing the hard thing, regardless of the outcome.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that has been monumental in changing our family dynamic because no longer am I only cheering when they succeed outwardly.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: We're cheering them on before that ever happens, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: So my son's had a really hard football season, right?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's gotten an injury, he isn't starting, you know, it's difficult.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm proud of him because he's showing up anyway and he's finding ways to be a leader on a team off the field where he, and I'm just like, hey, buddy, he's a lot like me.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: He's probably an Enneagram three.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I see the effort you're putting in, and I see the way my kids' posture changes when I have those conversations with them.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, it softened me.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's allowed me to have much lower expectations.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's changed my expectations too.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been able to name them a lot better too.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's I think that's powerful alone, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Naming our needs, naming our expectations or our desires or the desirable outcome gives us a direction to go.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes even saying it gives an indicator of, oh, wait a minute, I said that.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is that really what I mean?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that really what I want here?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is it worth the effort to try to get that?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love that.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just that little bit of fruit alone has such a ripple effect, lasting impact.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you you mentioned even looking at your community differently, thinking more about them and what do you, what do they need?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: What how is it that you can serve them and show up for them?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear, even in the purposeful living, the tiny tweaks, some of the things that you have really done a beautiful job curating and sharing over the years.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: How have that, how has it shown up, or how are you showing up maybe even differently with them, or even in the writing of your next book?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is all comes from the internal work that we're doing and what we're sharing.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that maybe even your community hasn't said that they've noticed something, but I'm sure you're probably looking back going, wow, I'm doing that a lot differently now than I would have two years ago.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think while I'm writing a book right now, and number one, I think the lesson I've learned is I'm writing it for them.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just have them in mind.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I have the reader in mind.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: My hope is that like when they read it, even if one person or two people or 10 people, whatever, um, reads it, that it would spark something in them.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, when I was just doing a deep dive into my podcast last week.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it used to be like if somebody or I get feedback, it would be like I would be offended, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I tried so hard and I missed the mark, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I would internalize it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas now it's like, okay, these podcasts did better than these podcasts.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Why was that?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And how can I better reach the audience I want to reach in in that, right?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes it's the let it's the little tiny tweaks of changing the title or being able to be able to explain to the person that's listening, this is why it matters to you.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is how I'm helping you, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think too, it just helps me to.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think too, with age comes this authenticity of like and healing and wholeness of knowing who I am and knowing how fully I'm loved by Christ as I am.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh serving an audience of one, I can show up online without makeup.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: I can show up online dancing, I can show up online fully as myself, knowing that nothing that anybody says on this earth matters except for my one and true savior, right?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like he knows my heart.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I used to fear, gosh, I now that you say this, I used to fear so much offending somebody.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: I would hold back from saying something that I thought would remotely be controversial.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't share a lot of controversial things, but I would hold back maybe even from like a parenting tip because I never wanted to offend somebody because I wanted them to see like I had it all together, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think now it's like I don't always have it all together, but I'm willing to learn, and that's a huge change.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is, and I see the freedom expressed on the social media side.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we get the behind the scenes, but I see you show up authentically, you less afraid.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost that you're not holding back as you were before.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a freedom and joy that naturally comes from that display.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you you hinted that that piece that ultimately, as long as you and God and it's about the eyes of one, right?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: The the his fatherly loving eyes who just always delights us.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And as we talked about with Kendry, the phrase, he's very fond of you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and when we rest in that, that really changes the dynamic.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: It changes the conversation, even the questions and what it is that we're going after.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So tell just talk to us a little bit more about your faith and some other aspects that were you've seen in the healing journey for you, faith has grown, or maybe even intersected with this work of separating your worth and value out of what you produce and the outcome even.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think one of the things was first of all, I a couple of years ago, when I can't remember who, I know you say it too, but I can't remember who first said it to me.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: That God is the CEO of the business.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: It goes back to the parables, the story of the parables where we are the stewards and God is in charge, right?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that really took me by surprise because that's not really how the world operates, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, that was kind of a catechismic like switch, right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, God's in charge and I'm just stewarding what he's given me.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I have written that in my prayer journal.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, God help me to steward what you've given me.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing of this, and I remember I know who it was.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was my therapist.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, Nothing that you have, you earned.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, excuse me, that is not true.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: That is so great.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, Everything you have is a gift from the Lord.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I sat with that.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we have to allow ourselves to sit with something.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I I go.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Think of like marinating, just like let it marinate and let God just like like remind you of that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that was something I had to marinate on of this idea of like everything that I have is a gift.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: But as I prayed that, and I think sometimes we have to pray things into belief.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I started to just pray like God help me to believe that you are the CEO of my business, that everything I have is a gift from you.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I really got into liturgical prayer as far as uh repeating the same thing over and over again.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then what's been really cool is to see how God over time changes my heart.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's been transformational for me to see that God is so patient and that He over time just continues to refine my heart.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's in the most loving, tender way.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: As an achiever, right?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I used to see God as this like harsh, if you don't do the right thing, I'm gonna just take care of you, right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not who God is.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's with time and practice and asking the Holy Spirit to just speak louder than anything else that I can tell when it's conviction versus condemnation.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like the conviction is like a sweet, I wouldn't say sweet, but like it's like a prompting.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a Aaron, you should think about this.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Just again, it's that marination.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to ponder this as opposed to condemnation that feels like you are not worthy.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have what it takes.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's condemnation.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: God would never say that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Something that somebody told me is God cannot give a fruit of the spirit he doesn't possess.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something else that I started to pray was like, God, you are generous, you are, you know, gentle, you are kind, you are self-control.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like those are the things you are, which is why you can give those things to me.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say it's been transformational in my faith.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing that helps me as an achiever is looking back when I started writing on the blog 17 years ago, it's almost 18 years now.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: I had just quit my teaching job.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: I literally started blogging as an outlet as a new mom.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: If he had said to me then, Erin, this little thing, this blog that you're gonna write an hour a day for the next 18 years is gonna turn into simple purpose living and you're gonna have a product line and it's gonna be on Amazon, and it's gonna be on if he had told me all of that at the beginning, I would have stopped before I started, right?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was in his kindness that he said, you're gonna do this, and then you're gonna do this, and then you're gonna do this.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so the verse that I always come back to as an achiever is keep being faithful.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: You will reap a harvest if you do not give up.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so hard as an achiever to do the mundane.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we, the other thing we have to let go of as achievers, and I have to let go of, and I literally put my hands out like this that I might never see the harvest this side of heaven.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: I just might, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like I won't know the impact, I won't know all the stories.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Only God does, but again, I'm doing it for the glory of him.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how lucky am I that he said, Aaron, I'm gonna give you this job and you're gonna impact a lot of people, and it's all for my glory.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: He chose me to do that.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: And when I have that framework of reference, it changes the way that I show up.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it just gives me so much gratitude for the father that he said, I see you and I love you, and I have this task for you.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it gives me freedom too, because I don't have to be all things to all people.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's remarkable, Aaron.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I want to highlight just for a second, and there's a lot to highlight, honestly, that was so good.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was so, so good.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that switch of you seeing it as a way to bring God glory, that's the upstream practice for a three because there is this sneaky temptation that gets us uh woven into our doing to steal God's glory.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: We all do in different ways, but I think the temptation for the three is especially significant.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so to be able to have that frame of reference and that intentional, purposeful, I'm doing this to bring God's glory.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is a game changer.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it it's so subtle.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And until you feel it for the first time, it's hard to put into words, right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: But God gave me this vision because then I was like, are we not supposed to celebrate?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because of course, as an achiever, we like to celebrate, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: But we celebrate because we give God glory, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I have this vision.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: My book is right there, but I have this vision of like me bowed down and God above me, and like me just handing him the book and being like, This was an obedient offering for you.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: You you gave me the opportunity.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is my best work, and I tried my best.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I remind myself often.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, God doesn't say it has to be perfect, God just says, give it all you've got, and I swear that's what I try to do, right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's what I want.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then I give it back to him.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we get to celebrate because God did it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the celebration becomes about the obedience, not the outcome.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would deem it as wholehearted celebration.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it becomes easier to do.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we should.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's a command, I think I see throughout the word of God of celebrate, celebrate what God has done, celebrate what God has done in you, and then through you.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is really beautiful.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I've loved that we've been able to touch on some of these aspects with work in particular, because for three, that is so significant.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the whole story, but it's a primary player in the story that I know for any three that I've ever worked with and I've talked to.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: I want to give a little bit of a just touching on the two and three for you, because those are a primary driver.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Those obviously environmental has emphasized the reward for the two.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: The three has always been there, the driver, the why for things.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: How is it looking, or how has it been to get to this place of receiving God's love and not earning it?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think the three and the two in particular, that's a really big mental switch of receiving without before you do a thing or without having to return it necessarily or do something in order to have earned it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's really hard in all of your relationships.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have a great husband, and I would have said, and I still believe we have a great marriage, but I was overcompensating for years because I wanted him to love me.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: I this is again, well, we're just getting vulnerable here.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Take care into therapy.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Safe place here.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I would have probably said, I don't know that I believed my husband loved me just for me.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: I oftentimes people, I believe they only love me because of the things I do for them.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so I equated that with like, if I do it, I'm achieving.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I think for the longest time, then I ignored my needs, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the most healing things that I can start to do is say, hey, I need you to listen.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: This is a need I have, and this is the way you can meet it.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the most profound things that my therapist said though was, if you don't know how he can meet it, then he doesn't know how he can meet it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to be very clear on what that is.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes what happens is something happens.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like last week, I'll give you a very clear example.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, I'm gonna start the laundry.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, actually, please don't.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't until after he left that I realized why.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it was because if he started the laundry, it would become a to-do item that I'd have to achieve for the day.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so that night he I he came home and I said, I know I told you not to do the laundry.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I thought about it, and here's why.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because that would become a to-do item that I'd have to achieve so that it was done when you got home.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know that wasn't what your thought was, but this is how I felt.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's in this healing process that I'm being able to name how I'm feeling and also be safe enough to say, like, I know you love me even if the laundry isn't done, but I can vocalize my needs.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so good, Erin.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know so many women, right?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Getting to that, being able to articulate what why it is so hard to express our needs or why we're not wanting to receive the help in that moment and understand what's really going on beneath the surface because you and I will do the same thing sometimes, but for very different reasons.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's getting right the codependent behavior or the overperformance or overcompensating.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so that all can be true for no matter what type, but you just gave a really great picture and insight for the three of oh, let's go one step further and a little bit deeper of why that felt more of a burden than it did help.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then how to ask in a way that really would be helpful and would be life-giving in a way that your husband could love you well.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: By doing it all the way through or handing it over to the kids.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: I said, if you're gonna start it, I need you to finish the loop because otherwise it opens something that I have to do and achieve.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just like a text message.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody texts you, it immediately becomes a to-do list item that I have to achieve.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't just let it sit, like even let it run.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really helpful.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Erin, for being vulnerable.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel well, it was really easy to ask threes to be on the podcast.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was a no-brainer.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I like I knew it.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I could ask last minute and everything, but what I didn't know for sure was everyone willing to be as vulnerable as I would hope because it's in the vulnerability and the true authentic story that we can all grow, that we can have the insight, the perspective, so we can take that next step that's right for us.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to hear what you've said a lot of things that I think threes want to know or need to know.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else around your worth or even building your business or even leading your family?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have a lot of kids and right, you're working full-time, you're juggling a lot of different things, and there's a lot of other elements that most people wouldn't know about.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would you want that woman to hear from you today?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think the three always wants to look like she has it all together.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And going back to what you said before, something that's changed in me is I've really reflected on the people that I admire, the people that I learn from, the people that inspire me.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not in their achievements or perfection, it's actually in their vulnerability and their willingness to say, hey, this is where I either screwed up or this is where I didn't know, or this is really hard.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: That is what's connected me to them.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think as a three, being able to say, it's okay if we don't have it together all the time.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Again, God knows that we don't have it all together all the time.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: And tacos or nachos don't have it all together all the time, and we still love them, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that that quote?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the thing that I has changed in my parenting, and it's all within reason, right?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: We don't need to burden our kids with adult problems.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: But when they can see that we are human and we also have hard things, they don't feel like they have to achieve this standard all the time.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the piece that I never understood in my childhood, is I just put my parents on a pedestal.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is them, right?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I want my kids to see like mom needs prayer sometimes.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes things, you know, and again, it's within reason.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're not burdening them with like really heavy things, but I would say I think that's the thing that I've learned is to be vulnerable.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's where people connect with you in a way that your achievements never will.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like the New York Times bestseller just feels aloof and far, right?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like you're like, well, I missed the mark on my book, but you know what?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's stung.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: But here's the lesson I learned.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that opens a conversation for somebody that's like, oh, finally somebody said the thing I needed them to say.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And more approachable, relatable, tangible, uh, all of that element.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it just, I want to say, good job, Erin, where you've you're doing the work, you're saying yes to it.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I always make sure to let the hearer understand there's never a point of arrival.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's always grace upon grace because it's work and growing and releasing and surrender.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear because you are the queen of tiny tweaks.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love the phrase.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're using it all the time in our mastermind.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: We have all these little sayings between us now and our and our circle.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious, is there a tiny tweak or two or three that you would even that comes to mind for my three who's going, yeah, what this is not an overhaul.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not even a try harder.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is a the tiny tweak which you've given at them inadvertently along the way today that you would want to share here as we close.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Something I've been practicing as an Enneagram three is letting today's to-do list be enough.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: What I used to do was I'd finish today's to-do list and then I'd say, but what can I do for tomorrow, Erin, so that she gets ahead.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: But guess what?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Tomorrow, Erin, then never took that time to rest.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: She would just do something else.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was always more.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've gotten into the practice of writing out what I need to do for the day.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very good at like, this is what we've got to do.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if I have time before my kids get home, I don't do anything else.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just let it be.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it is this practice of saying, I don't have to achieve more to be loved.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've done what I need to do, and I trust God to take care of the rest.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's a really practical way if you want to try it today.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a great way to practice.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then again, I think it goes back to is there something small uh that you can lay down that you are using as a measuring stick?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think too, the other last week that has been really helpful is redefining what success looks like for you.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not what the world says.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: But in this season of life, as you, you know, Aaron is successful because, and for me, that means growing my business a little more slowly because I'm not willing to miss any of my kids' activities.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's going so fast.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have a junior, you do as well.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just goes so fast, right?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not willing to miss that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But that's important to know because if I don't name that, then the dipstick over here isn't going to tell the whole story.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: So those would be some of the tweaks I'd share.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: They are brilliant.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love them so much.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I even think about receiving the margin, right?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: That first tip.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: If margin is presented in your day, receive it as a gift from the Lord and his little kiss.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, you got it, girl.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Good job.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's enough.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: The next thing I'm trying, and I am not proficient at it.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's such an that's such an enneagram way to say.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know that, and it's been a like a year-long pursuit to find a hobby like that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll see if I like it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't know, but and I'll probably will turn it into some sort of competition because that's who I am.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: But um, my joy, like my that's my next step is to take piano lessons just for the the joy of it.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: The joy of it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's so good.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I can't wait for the next retreat where you play.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: We find a little baby grand, or it becomes part of the social media shtick.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it will probably become part of that, right?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yes, yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Erin, thank you so much.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: This was beautiful, beautifully vulnerable and authentic.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that gift that you've given.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I imagine that my friend took some notes because you definitely came in with big sis wisdom at every level.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, thank you for sharing and being fully you and um and doing the work, saying yes to the work.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's wonderful to watch.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: All the warm fuzzies as an Enneagram 3.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yay.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.