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Matthew Bok | The Christian Reeve Podcast #225 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
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  Podcast. Today's guest is a podcaster,
• 0:05
  comedian, author, project manager.
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  Former TV producer Matthew Bock is returned to the show.
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  How you doing, man? I'm doing good.
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  How about yourself? Very happy and a great mood.
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  I'm very happy to have you back on the show.
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  It's been so. Why are you in a great mood?
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  Why, that's always something that interests me.
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  Why are you in a great mood? I mean, I guess it's it's
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  probably what about 5:00? O'clock your time there.
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  Four o'clock 5:00 o'clock your time.
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  It's 4:00 o'clock. I'm happy because I'm doing
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  this. I'll be honest, like right now
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  where my life is at, I can't find a job.
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  I'm creatively stifled as far as like acting is concerned because
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  there's not been working a long time and I'm sure you've read
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  the situation. What's going on the streets
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  right now as as we record this, this will be out in August, but
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  we're recording this in July and that inevitably has a knock on
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  effect on on the British film industry as well.
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  And I think the frustrations in me are growing because I'm every
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  day doing everything I can to find work in anything like I've
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  been applying for, like even just like cleaning jobs, just to
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  get something, some money coming through.
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  Well, sure know that we just got a new cleaning service here.
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  Yeah, doubt of it. I mean, the trip would kind of
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  be a bitch. But I was gonna say like, yeah,
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  I'd have to take out like. And mortgage to go over there,
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  Yeah. And that that's frustrating.
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  But I guess to bring it back to my point is there are certain
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  things in my life, certain constants that I'm very grateful
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  for. And this is one of them.
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  This show, you know, when I, when I stopped focusing on the
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  numbers so much and I started focusing on just like putting
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  together a good show each and every time and you know, really
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  just diving head first into my guests and my topics and stuff.
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  I got a lot more out of it. Like I enjoy the show more now
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  than I ever have done before. And you know, I look forward to
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  it, man. I always do, cuz I know it's
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  always gonna be good. I'm always gonna get something
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  out of it. I'm always gonna learn, grow,
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  you know, all of the above. Have you found that it's easier
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  to do now? Yeah, weirdly.
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  I don't know why. Maybe it's cuz it's I've got.
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  I mean, I'm a stickler for like plans and such.
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  So I think that I mean, well, if you if you do a podcast and I
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  wanted to get onto podcasts with you anyway.
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  But I just, I'll just say this real quick.
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  I've heard so many bad podcasts and bad shows, and one of the
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  biggest reasons why they're bad is that they don't have a
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  structure. It's like as a listener, how are
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  you supposed to follow that when it's just a bunch of incoherent
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  thoughts or, I don't know, like. Tangents.
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  And don't get me wrong, it's OK to go on certain tangents here
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  and there, but you got to pull it back.
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  You got to bring it back. You got to have, like some
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  degree of structure. Or it's just chaos, but not
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  enjoyable chaos. Because I know I think there's a
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  lot of people out there that think like, oh, I'll put a
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  podcast together because me and my buddies have hilarious
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  conversations and it's like, you may very well do.
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  And they may be very good shows, no.
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  But see, that's the thing, right?
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  And we'll get into your show later.
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  But like, when I listen to your show, it's not an incoherent
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  mess. There might be like mucking
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  around and boys kind of chat. But at the same time, like
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  there's structure there. There's something the listener
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  can follow and listen to and continue to listen to.
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  And that's why our respective shows have gone on as long as
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  they have, because it's like there is that structure.
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  And we will have that listener base of people who are looking
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  forward to that because there's something to follow.
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  Now don't get me wrong, I think it's okay to break script once
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  in a while, try different things, etcetera.
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  But if you just like I see, and this is the unfortunate aspect
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  to podcasting, I think is that the reality is it is a numbers
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  game, as much as you might not want to focus on the numbers.
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  Unfortunately, yeah. I mean, you got to hit certain
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  things, so. Just like if you come into this
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  and you're the celebrity, right? You've already got following,
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  then you're already going to have a podcast audience, right?
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  It's like a comedian, you know, if Chris Rock, for example, he
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  he announces a tour and he's going to do clubs instead of
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  arenas. He goes to, you know, the local
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  chuckle Hut on a Tuesday. He's still going to pull 500
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  people. You know, because of who he is,
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  it doesn't matter. And and he he also can do a bad,
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  a bad show, but it'll be good because hey, I got to see Chris
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  Rock. So sorry, I didn't mean to
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  interrupt you. No, no, no, no, please do.
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  I mean it's you, you're spot on. But I think a key thing that's
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  missing from that point is the fact that like him going and
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  doing a comedy show elsewhere from his like normal circuit is
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  what he's still doing something within his profession, right.
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  If you're going to become a podcaster.
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  Now listen guys, anyone that's sitting and listening to this,
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  who wants to start a podcast, take notes, Okay at the end of
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  the day, just because. You think you can do something?
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  Yeah. Doesn't mean that you can just
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  dive head first into it without a plan, Okay.
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  I've seen so many podcasts come and go over the years and mine
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  kept going. And that's not because I'm some
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  amazing guy wizard that's doing something different to you.
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  The difference is I have a plan and a stick to it.
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  And I take criticism on board and I factor that in and I make
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  sure that the show gets better as a result of that right now.
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  The key thing as well is I do occasionally, and I hate the
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  sound of my own voice, but I do occasionally sit and listen
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  while I'm editing and just kind of see like, is this something I
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  would want to listen to? Is, is there something from this
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  that's in any way enjoyable or just worthy of someone's time
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  now? And again, that's subjective,
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  you know, I realize there probably be people that listen
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  to this and think, this shows shit.
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  Why would I listen to this crap? And that's fine, right?
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  But I know that there's at least 20-30 people out there that
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  listen to the show each and every week because there is some
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  structure to it, because there's a certain degree of a promise.
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  And I think any good show has like, OK, this is what you can
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  expect. This is what you'll get each and
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  every time. It might be a bit different each
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  and every time, but fundamentally this is what
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  you'll get. And say, like when I'm trying to
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  sell the show or promote it to people, I'll always say things
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  like it's about sharing life stories, It's about going.
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  At length on particular topics and getting a good discussion
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  going, and I'd like to think over the last 225 episodes that
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  we've achieved that. And that was actually one thing
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  I wanted to say up at the top is, first of all,
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  congratulations, the fact that you're still doing this, because
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  I have listened and you know, I will pick up a podcast, I'll
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  listen to it for a period of time and then I will lose
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  interest. I'll move on.
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  Not my thing. And and you hit it on the head
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  about would somebody else want to listen to this and there is
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  you talk about having a plan and I'm going to kind of go against
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  you a little bit here And and it's not that my podcast doesn't
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  have a plan. We actually have a very
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  regimented we have this segment, this segment, this segment, this
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  segment but over the course of Given podcast and my podcast is
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  about movies. You know we we will in their 80s
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  movies which is the time frame that myself and my podcast host
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  grew up in. We will catch on a topic in the
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  middle of the podcast and kind of go on a tangent that relates
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  to what was in our lives at that time or our experience with a
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  similar thing, which I think is some of the better things.
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  But you're absolutely right about having a plan.
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  And there's this great thing from Are you familiar that
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  familiar with Orange is the New Black?
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  Yeah, the series that had quite a few different.
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  It's like all female cast for the most part.
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  Wasn't it female? Prisoners in jail, yes, minimum
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  security prison. But at one point somebody had a
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  podcast in in the show and it wasn't one of the characters in
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  prison. It was one of the characters
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  that was outside of prison and somebody was talking to them
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  about that. And I actually took a screen
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  shot of it because I thought it was so funny.
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  And the thing was, will you please stop pretending that
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  podcasting is a job and. And if you've never done a
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  podcast and or I mean I before I started my own podcast, I've
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  been on several podcasts as a guest.
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  First of all, being a guest on a podcast completely different
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  thing than actually having a podcast.
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  And you like myself. We are the not just on the
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  podcast, we're also the producers of the podcast.
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  We are the ones who do all the planning, all the organizing.
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  We do the editing if appropriate.
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  We do promotion my podcast, we don't promote.
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  Which we'll get into a little bit later, but these are all
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  things and I don't know if we just wanna pivot into it now,
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  but one of the things I was thinking about is from a Well,
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  actually, let me finish my point first.
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  So many people start podcast and they think it's easy.
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  I'm just gonna all I need is a mic or not even have a mic.
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  I just have my computer. And maybe headphones and, you
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  know, we had some technical difficulties that were my fault
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  on the start of this. And I've been doing this for a
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  couple years, but that's because I I changed my equipment because
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  I'm in different location. But maybe that first, that
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  second, even that third podcast is going to be great because oh,
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  this is something new. You're so jazzed, you're so
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  energized and it has this kind of feeling to it.
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  But once you get beyond that initial kind of inertia of
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  starting. You're going to run out of
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  things if you do not have that plan, if you do not have a
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  direction to go in, if you do not have a lot to say because
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  honestly none of us are that interesting to fill 2 hours, 3
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  hours, 5 hours a week just based on our individual lives.
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  You need to have something and yours is is very different
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  because you have you have a guest based podcast, which is a
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  completely different scenario than mine we've had.
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  We're we're coming up on 200 podcasts.
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  We're a little bit shy. I think we're about 180 right
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  now. We've had I think a total of 5
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  guests. We usually do it for we we've
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  had Thanksgiving shows and then Christmas shows and then I am a
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  big believer in you want to make sure you put out content every
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  week, no matter what that content happens to be.
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  There have been times when my podcast partner has been
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  unavailable, so I brought in my wife or one of my kids and done
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  in offshoot a movie that my podcast partner and I wouldn't
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  have done. Or, for example, in two weeks I
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  will be in the woods in northern Wisconsin and we will have no
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  power, no running water, and we record a podcast up there.
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  I bring up portable equipment and we it's not the same thing.
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  It's not a 2 1/2 hour podcast, it's a 45 minute.
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  It's a little bit more narrowly structured.
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  But I have a firm believer in always putting out that content.
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  But of the guests we've had, where it has been more than two
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  people, it introduces an uncontrollable element to the
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  situation and your your show every week is an uncontrollable
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  element because you do not have. A Unless you have somebody on
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  consistently, unless you have a consistent conversation base, a
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  rapport that you've built with somebody over time, you don't
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  know how it's going to go. You're walking into the lion's
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  den of and I'm not talking about the adult bookstore, which
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  probably don't have those in in Great Britain, but that that's a
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  big adult bookstore here, the lion's den.
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  But the lost my point. That's something new every day.
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  But you don't. You don't know how they're going
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  to be. You don't know what they're and
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  the worst thing you can have and you are great about drawing
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  things out of people. And you think with your podcast,
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  you know people are on there because they want to be on
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  there. Whether they're they're
• 11:52
  promoting something, they're promoting themselves or
• 11:54
  promoting a project, a podcast, whatever happens to be, they
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  have a vested interest in being there because you are going to
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  bring them exposure. So that's it's not.
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  A selfless gesture a lot of the time that they're on the
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  podcast, but when somebody is just guesting for whatever, I
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  think a lot. I think that takes a lot of
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  people by surprise. When it comes to doing a podcast
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  like mine is how much prep work, even as a guest there is.
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  It's not nearly as much as there is as a producer, but as a guest
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  for a movie, podcast, so. Just we talked about this a
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  little and I did listen to our last podcast back just to make
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  sure it's like in my completely waste of my time here.
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  But so most 80s movies are somewhere in like the 90 hour 40
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  minute range. If you had to guess how much
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  prep work do you think I would have to do each week before I
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  actually do the podcast itself and Alice, that's that's about
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  right. It's a little low, it's about
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  12. Because I listened to the last
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  week's podcast twice and I listen.
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  I listened to it once, just OK, is there anything I said that I
• 13:07
  shouldn't have said that I have to cut?
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  It's going to cause me to lose my job, But then also look for,
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  you know, mistakes we made, things that we said we'd come
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  back to, that we will address in the beginning of the podcast.
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  Then you have to watch the movie and you can't watch the movie in
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  real time because, you know, you got to take notes on the movie.
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  So it takes about double the time to actually watch the
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  movie. And since we're movie based, we
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  have a lot of clips, have to edit the clips, have to do all
• 13:31
  this kind of stuff. And you're, you're a musician,
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  you're a singer, right? I cannot sing.
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  But that does not stop me from singing on the podcast.
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  And that is kind of one of the things that my partner brought
• 13:45
  to it because he is a little bit more talent in some areas than I
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  do. But when you realize you have a
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  deficit and something from I'm tone deaf, I I from a creative
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  perspective, I think I can write lyrics but I I can't carry a
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  tune. And Despite that, I I lean into
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  it every week that it's my week. I I write a parody song for the
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  intro to our films and some of them are just God awful.
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  But I kind of steer into it. That's.
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  I'm bad at singing. I accept that.
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  I don't have a problem with that.
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  Yeah, I mean, I I think it's important to to always try and
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  offer something a little bit different each and every week
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  where possible. There's a few points I want to,
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  I want to touch on there. So you mentioned the fact that,
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  yeah, there has to be prep on both sides.
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  I agree. Although with my show, I
• 14:40
  deliberately don't tell my guests anything I say like if
• 14:43
  you really want to know, go check out, have a listen.
• 14:45
  And that will give you an idea, but I like to kind of take on
• 14:49
  the responsibility of that. And because I feel like it is
• 14:51
  kind of my responsibility, like, you know, I think I think it's
• 14:57
  different with a show like yours because, you know, you're coming
• 15:00
  on there and in order to participate in the conversation,
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  you need to have done the homework, watch the film, you
• 15:06
  know, know what's going to come up, you know what I'm saying?
• 15:10
  But this shows up in on where. You know, like you feel like an
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  afterthought, which is the guest should never feel like an
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  afterthought. It should be like a special
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  thing. Certainly yes.
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  Yeah. And for me it's that's always
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  key that's that's one of the reasons why I talk less now.
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  Part of that is to do with with feedback, but it's also because
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  I feel like okay, if the main event is your guest and your
• 15:33
  guest is like the afterthought, then you're not really
• 15:36
  delivering on delivering that main event, are you?
• 15:38
  You're you're like. No one wants to sit and and
• 15:42
  listen to you talking like your guest is in the background
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  somewhere. It just doesn't make sense to
• 15:46
  me. So I went and made my own show
• 15:49
  elsewhere from here on Patreon where it's just me talking.
• 15:52
  But you know, what's interesting is it's the exact same level of
• 15:55
  research, if not more. I have to do more planning and
• 15:58
  research for that show. Whereas this show I write down
• 16:01
  some notes, I got some ideas, but the main thing I'm focused
• 16:03
  on is can I have a conversation with this person.
• 16:07
  You mentioned before about the fact that, like, you know, it's
• 16:10
  an uncontrollable element. You don't know how that
• 16:13
  situation is going to go. And you're absolutely right,
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  unless it's a returning guest like yourself, where I know I've
• 16:17
  had a good conversation before stepping out into the unknown
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  man, but I kind of believe that that's what life is, that's what
• 16:25
  life should be. You should put yourself in
• 16:27
  situations that are a bit different, that get different
• 16:30
  things out of you because you don't know what you're going to
• 16:32
  stumble across. You mentioned before your show,
• 16:35
  like it, it goes up to like 2 hours, but sometimes you do 45
• 16:38
  minutes, you do sometimes smaller shows, etcetera.
• 16:42
  In that you might find that okay, I'm going to experiment
• 16:45
  with this level of time for for my show.
• 16:49
  Like, I did that, like when I first started the show, it was
• 16:51
  all over the place. You know, one week it's 2 1/2
• 16:54
  hours, the next week it's 45 minutes.
• 16:55
  Like, there's not a lot of consistency there.
• 16:57
  I think as a listener, it's overwhelming to see like, oh,
• 17:00
  there's all these shows. But then there's no, like,
• 17:03
  consistency in it. Like, and I know for anyone
• 17:06
  that's joining the show now, 225 episodes, it's like, Oh my God,
• 17:10
  where do I even start? Right?
• 17:11
  And I always just tell them, like, listen to the latest
• 17:13
  episode and go from there, you know?
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  Because. That's the most like this.
• 17:19
  Is what the now is. This is what we're and I I've
• 17:23
  listened to older podcasts every now and then.
• 17:27
  When I run out of things in my podcast feed, every now and then
• 17:29
  I'll go back and I'll cherry pick some things.
• 17:31
  Just. Some of it is.
• 17:33
  It's a learning experience. It is where, where have I gotten
• 17:37
  to and when? When you listen to our first
• 17:40
  podcasts Versus, our 50th podcast Versus.
• 17:43
  Our pod I'll just interject now, so the show is called the Beta
• 17:46
  Max review for anyone wondering. Beta Max Rewind.
• 17:50
  You've changed? No, it's always.
• 17:51
  You actually got that wrong last time, too.
• 17:53
  It's Beta Max Rewind. Oh, I've been so bad.
• 17:57
  Though beta Max. I should talk that on the way.
• 17:59
  Listen, that's pain, man. Okay.
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  Well, that's my first strike. First strike.
• 18:05
  There we go. Beta Max, rewind.
• 18:08
  But you know the the quality of of the sound, first of all, you
• 18:14
  know, started off with you know, very, very basic equipment and
• 18:17
  then have upgraded over time to better sounding equipment
• 18:20
  because honestly. The better it sounds the easier
• 18:25
  it is to overcome other shortcomings you might have.
• 18:28
  In addition to that there is just the the actual quality of
• 18:34
  what we're saying has improved. And I, I I know, and this is a
• 18:39
  thing that I used to be a public speaker.
• 18:41
  I used to be a I used to teach how to use software and and I
• 18:45
  also used to interview people a lot for for jobs and one of the
• 18:49
  things I used to do when I was interviewing someone on the
• 18:51
  phone. And I knew it was, it was just
• 18:54
  never going to go anywhere because a lot of times in the
• 18:56
  first 2-3 minutes of an interview, you know, this is a
• 18:59
  nonstarter. But you can't just say, yeah,
• 19:02
  we're not hiring you, sorry. So you you still go through the
• 19:04
  process because every now and then somebody will bring you
• 19:07
  back. Everybody will will actually
• 19:09
  surprise you in that back end. But usually you can just tell in
• 19:13
  the beginning of somebody's completely a nonstarter.
• 19:15
  But when I'd be doing this on the phone and I knew it wasn't
• 19:17
  going anywhere, I'd still go through the process, but I would
• 19:20
  make a little tick sheet. And I'd look for their verbal
• 19:22
  tick. I'd look for their verbal
• 19:24
  crutch. Is it?
• 19:26
  Is it mine? Is So what?
• 19:29
  I am trying to bridge thoughts together.
• 19:32
  A lot of times I will use so or and as mine, and I'm aware of
• 19:36
  it, but I still do it. And I I try to and I should have
• 19:40
  a thing printed up right above. But light can be a verbal
• 19:44
  crutch. You see with a lot of younger
• 19:46
  people. And I there's a basketball
• 19:48
  player. I don't remember which
• 19:49
  basketball player it was. But.
• 19:51
  In the course of a 30 second interview, he said like 37
• 19:56
  times. And a lot of people, once you
• 20:01
  tell them that they have this verbal crutch, it gets into
• 20:05
  their head and they start doing it less.
• 20:07
  But until you do that and how many people listen to themselves
• 20:11
  because a lot of people don't have the ability, they don't
• 20:13
  have this forum, if you will, where they can go back and do
• 20:16
  it. But.
• 20:18
  You you had said that when somebody asks where should I
• 20:20
  start, you say start at the latest one because that's where
• 20:24
  you are now. That's what your podcast is now.
• 20:27
  And with my podcast it's so hard to say because the show we were
• 20:34
  is not the show we are, but there's a lot of callbacks and
• 20:41
  continually, continuously running.
• 20:44
  Gags or bits, if you will, of things that we will reference
• 20:47
  that happened over and over and over again.
• 20:50
  I'll give you an example, something that's really, really
• 20:52
  dumb. I'm sure you're familiar with
• 20:54
  the film Armageddon. It's it's not a great film.
• 20:59
  I enjoy it, but it's not a great film.
• 21:01
  That film makes me cry every time I watch it.
• 21:04
  And. No there there's this scene in
• 21:08
  it where? This one of the guys who is
• 21:12
  going up into space to mine the asteroid to save the earth, goes
• 21:15
  and visits his either exwife or exgirlfriend and they have a kid
• 21:21
  together and she tells the kid that the guy's A salesman.
• 21:25
  And then when he's going up into space and they're showing all of
• 21:28
  them, the kid says that salesman's on the TV and she
• 21:33
  drops the phone and she walks over.
• 21:35
  And she says that man's not a salesman he's your daddy.
• 21:37
  And it's like even talking about it just it gets me choked up and
• 21:41
  I but it's it's so silly but it's just a thing that we it's
• 21:44
  one of those things that we will constantly and that man's your
• 21:47
  daddy. We'll just say that man's your
• 21:48
  daddy. Or another huge one is whenever
• 21:52
  somebody's in a plane spun out into the Sea of Japan there were
• 21:57
  no survivors which is from MASH. When Henry Blake died, which
• 22:02
  it's just such a completely random thing, but it's been
• 22:05
  referenced so many times that you won't necessarily get the
• 22:08
  context, especially if you are not my age.
• 22:11
  But if you're your age, if we have younger listeners, they're
• 22:14
  not going to get a lot of the cultural things that some of the
• 22:18
  older people. Will get well.
• 22:19
  This speaks to the idea of like casual fans versus like your
• 22:25
  core fans. I mean, this is something that
• 22:26
  I've come across over the last couple of years.
• 22:29
  With my live streams that I do online, where I've got like this
• 22:32
  core community that's been following me over the years and
• 22:36
  has checked out my various projects, you know, my acting,
• 22:39
  voice acting, podcasting, content creation, all that
• 22:42
  music, whatever. And you.
• 22:45
  But you, you've got that core community who remember those
• 22:48
  things from years ago. And then you got the new people
• 22:50
  that maybe don't appreciate that.
• 22:51
  And I feel like, yeah, sometimes you might be left out a little
• 22:54
  bit. With certain references and
• 22:56
  stuff. But as long as the whole show
• 22:58
  isn't that, you know, because if it's like a whole show of those
• 23:01
  and you just don't know, then what's the point of listening,
• 23:03
  right. Unless you're a core listener.
• 23:05
  Said that there's always kind of got to be a nice balance I think
• 23:07
  of catering to your older core community, core listeners and
• 23:12
  then also trying to provide something that's going to entice
• 23:16
  new people in. But yeah, I mean, I don't know.
• 23:21
  I I I think it it depends. Depends on a lot of factors
• 23:26
  really. I I I don't know.
• 23:29
  I would say this though with the whole tick thing.
• 23:31
  I I I'm not as fussy about that. Like my show for example isn't
• 23:37
  edited. I don't cut out if Sats, you
• 23:39
  know, all that stuff. I don't either.
• 23:41
  Yeah and but The thing is I know, I know there's a lot of
• 23:44
  people that do do that and I'll cut stuff out like for instance
• 23:48
  that bit of dialogue. Yeah I'll cut stuff out like
• 23:52
  that but when it's just like. People talking.
• 23:56
  I like that element. I like this show to feel almost
• 24:00
  like a yeah, like a fascinating conversation between two people
• 24:03
  that maybe you could be sitting at a bar and you listen to two
• 24:05
  people talking. You just happen to not chip in,
• 24:09
  but you're enjoying the conversation.
• 24:11
  That's the way I like to look at it.
• 24:13
  A girl that I used to work with just happened to.
• 24:18
  Google me or somehow she found out I had a podcast because.
• 24:21
  It's always dangerous, isn't it? This is a good friend of mine,
• 24:25
  but we no longer work together, families, etcetera.
• 24:29
  You kind of, you drift apart and it's not anything personal.
• 24:33
  But she started texting me, Hey, I found your podcast.
• 24:37
  I'm listening to it and it's interesting to get that kind of
• 24:41
  outsiders perspective from somebody who doesn't know both
• 24:45
  of us. They just know me.
• 24:47
  But one of the things she said and it it it key is a key or it
• 24:51
  talks to what you just said is she she feels like listening to
• 24:55
  my podcast is she's sitting in a on a conversation with a couple
• 24:59
  of friends. Right.
• 25:01
  And my wife said something which I, I, I don't know how to take
• 25:05
  exactly. She said that, well, when you're
• 25:07
  dead, I have a couple 100 hours of, you know, you talking to
• 25:12
  listen to. She probably said it nicer than
• 25:16
  that, but that that was the the general feeling of it.
• 25:20
  And I I did say congratulations at the top because so many
• 25:24
  podcasts come and go. The number of podcasts that hit
• 25:28
  10 is probably this percentage, 2050, a hundred.
• 25:33
  Once you hit 100, there's very, very few podcasts that hit that
• 25:36
  threshold because it wasn't what they thought it was going to be
• 25:40
  or it's more work or. They just moved on to something
• 25:44
  else. Well, it's not what you said
• 25:45
  earlier. I'm gonna disagree with that.
• 25:47
  When someone says podcasting is not a job, I thoroughly disagree
• 25:53
  with that. If you ever start a podcast, if
• 25:55
  you happen to be listening and you've either been involved with
• 25:58
  a podcast or you do a podcast, you'll know exactly what I mean.
• 26:01
  It is definitely a job. There is so much time that goes
• 26:05
  into creating it. This right here, this what we're
• 26:08
  doing now. This is the easy that absolutely
• 26:11
  the stuff afterwards, the editing, the social media and
• 26:14
  it's thankless. No, I mean, you know we've both
• 26:17
  been doing our shows for for some time and I I never really
• 26:20
  thought about quitting, but I have kind of thought about
• 26:24
  reducing it or whatever. I've I've got frustrated at it
• 26:27
  at times but. The at the end of the day in
• 26:31
  life when you're pursuing things that where there's so much
• 26:34
  competition like acting, podcasting, etcetera, the
• 26:37
  reality is, you know, you just kind of got to keep throwing
• 26:40
  yourself out there and hope for the best and you know, you might
• 26:43
  not make it. You know, I set myself a
• 26:45
  personal goal. I've said this before a million
• 26:47
  times, So apologies for repeating this, but I set myself
• 26:50
  a goal of 10 years. We've got to three.
• 26:53
  I thought it kind of be cool to do like a decade, you know,
• 26:55
  because I started in 2020. It's 2023 now.
• 26:58
  Let's see where we're at in 20-30.
• 27:00
  And that's kind of my mindset. And so I didn't pay as much
• 27:03
  attention to the numbers anymore.
• 27:04
  I was like, let's just keep going, let's just see how this
• 27:07
  evolves, Let's see how I change. And it's that I think is.
• 27:12
  If nothing else, like I remember a friend of mine shout out to
• 27:14
  Childish Jacker. He said this a while back and we
• 27:18
  did projects together. I think I'm.
• 27:19
  You've had him on the podcast a couple times.
• 27:22
  Only once actually was it. Only once, cuz I know I listened
• 27:24
  to that one. Yeah, I'm trying to get him back
• 27:26
  on the show, actually. So yeah, I hope he hears this.
• 27:28
  But anyway, he said to me, remember that what you're doing
• 27:33
  now is like a time capsule. You know, it's like this is you
• 27:38
  in this moment and it's, it's. It'll it'll never be something
• 27:42
  that was a waste of time, you know, It'll always be valuable
• 27:45
  on some level. And you mentioned there like
• 27:47
  you, your wife has a a a version of you that exists for all time
• 27:52
  and that's kind of amazing when you think about it.
• 27:54
  And then I think the bigger thing for me was when I realized
• 27:57
  this show is bigger than myself. When it became about sharing
• 28:00
  people's stories, sharing something of value that people
• 28:03
  can be inspired by or get some entertainment from or get them
• 28:07
  thinking, that's when I was like, that's what this is.
• 28:11
  And then it doesn't matter anymore.
• 28:13
  Like, yeah, okay. Sure, it'd be great to have
• 28:15
  thousands of of hits or whatever, or get sponsors.
• 28:18
  And look, I'm still trying to get those dreams.
• 28:21
  I'm trying to follow those dreams.
• 28:22
  I'd love to this, to have a studio.
• 28:24
  I'd love to have physical guests.
• 28:26
  I'd love all that, you know, I'd love to be in major movies.
• 28:28
  But we can't always have what we want.
• 28:30
  But we can keep trying and chasing the dreams anyway.
• 28:33
  But what you said there about how only a certain amount gets
• 28:38
  to this number before they give up.
• 28:41
  I think it does take a certain amount of maybe stubbornness or
• 28:48
  maybe just having a mindset of not quitting or a certain degree
• 28:54
  of enjoyment as well, you know. Like if you're an actor, you
• 28:58
  know. It is similar that very few
• 29:02
  people who are successful actors just go on their first edition.
• 29:07
  Right. Get their first job.
• 29:10
  Then they're on a TV regular on a TV show.
• 29:13
  Then they get a Marvel movie. It happens for some people, but
• 29:15
  most people, you know, there's a grind.
• 29:17
  There is the paying your dues, if you will, and a lot of that
• 29:21
  is being able to deal with both overt and not overt rejection.
• 29:29
  And that rejection might be no, we don't want you for this role.
• 29:33
  Or it might be my podcast listenership isn't as much as I
• 29:38
  I hoped it would be. But then there's also the
• 29:40
  acceptance and I think you guys have golf there, right?
• 29:45
  Because it didn't. Wasn't golf born in the UK?
• 29:49
  That's a good question. I don't know.
• 29:52
  Maybe Scotland. Scotland.
• 29:54
  Yeah, maybe golf. Is is one of those sports where
• 29:58
  I I golf. I have not golfed in years, but
• 30:00
  I I used to. GG is weird because you can go
• 30:04
  out and you just suck you you will be hacking up the course.
• 30:09
  You will be having a terrible day and you'll be on the 15th
• 30:13
  hole and you are ready to just leave your clubs on the side of
• 30:16
  the course and go home and you will hit a 20 foot pot.
• 30:21
  Or you'll hit a great chip shot, or you'll have it a drive that
• 30:25
  puts you within 5 feet of the cup and none of the rest of that
• 30:30
  stuff matters. You get that.
• 30:32
  You get that one little taste of success that makes the
• 30:35
  difference. It makes you forget all the
• 30:37
  negativity that they came before it And that's what there are.
• 30:43
  I'm I'm sure in your history of podcasts there are ones that
• 30:47
  you've walked away when you've been done with it and said that
• 30:51
  was not my best work and it's not necessarily you but it it
• 30:54
  sometimes it's just the stars aren't aligned and it's not
• 30:57
  working. And we had one of those recently
• 31:00
  and. It was partially it was a bad
• 31:03
  movie. But even beyond that, bad movies
• 31:07
  can lead to great podcasts because a lot of times their
• 31:10
  fodder that you can exploit because of why they're bad.
• 31:15
  But there was just something that was off that night and the
• 31:19
  podcast just didn't work and. We get done and you know how
• 31:23
  this works, work you talked before then you start then you
• 31:26
  say OK good night everybody and then you hang out for like
• 31:29
  another minute or so to do any kind of wrap up stuff you you
• 31:32
  need to do and we're done. It's like yeah, that was that
• 31:36
  was that was not our best work and I feel like quitting right
• 31:41
  now but you're not going to and you know you said you set a goal
• 31:47
  of 10 years about a year and a half ago I said.
• 31:51
  I was going to do 200 podcasts. That was that was kind of like
• 31:55
  my cutoff. I was going to do 200 and out.
• 31:59
  As I said, we're sitting at about 180 right now.
• 32:01
  So that's basically four months, 4 1/2 months and not even to the
• 32:05
  end of the year, I don't think before we hit 200.
• 32:09
  I cannot imagine quitting at this point, right, because I I
• 32:17
  moved to where I live now to I live in Ohio.
• 32:20
  I I grew up in Wisconsin, but I moved to Ohio 2627 years, 27
• 32:26
  years ago. So now more than half my life
• 32:28
  I've lived here, but everything that I have here is stuff that I
• 32:33
  have picked up, people I've met, things I've experienced since
• 32:38
  I've been here, but I don't have that previous 2526 years anymore
• 32:46
  because I can't just. Go to the bar and hang out with
• 32:51
  these guys. I can't go and do fantasy
• 32:53
  football, American football with with my buddies.
• 32:56
  I can't do a lot of those things.
• 32:59
  And in a way, this podcast has given me that little piece of my
• 33:05
  past back to me because I'm talking to.
• 33:09
  A kid I grew up with more or less more in the high school,
• 33:12
  but still one of my best friends.
• 33:13
  He was in my wedding. I was in, well, I was in Usher
• 33:15
  in his wedding. I wasn't important enough to
• 33:17
  actually be in his wedding proper, but that's a whole
• 33:19
  another story. Well, he actually asked his when
• 33:21
  I told him I was coming on the podcast, he's like, are you
• 33:23
  going to throw me under the bus like you did last time?
• 33:26
  And I listened to the last podcast, I didn't really throw
• 33:29
  him under the. Box.
• 33:30
  I would have remembered that. But it is a thing where?
• 33:37
  We started in COVID and a lot of podcasts.
• 33:39
  I mean a lot of podcasts started in COVID.
• 33:41
  A lot of podcasts did not make it out of stay at home portion
• 33:45
  of COVID. But you know, we're not that
• 33:48
  COVID is done, but we're outside of, you know, lockdowns and and
• 33:53
  things like that. But it's become part of my
• 33:59
  routine in a way and I can't imagine.
• 34:05
  What I would do with all the time I would get back if if I
• 34:08
  didn't have this kind of time albatross of a podcast every
• 34:12
  week. And I say that jokingly because
• 34:17
  it gives me a lot of joy to do and I don't do it for anybody
• 34:25
  besides myself really. And I know that's very selfish
• 34:29
  and we do do things we have as I talked about before we have
• 34:32
  segments and. There's this one segment that I
• 34:35
  came up with that I wanted to kill so badly because it takes
• 34:40
  so much time to do. It's so much proper to do.
• 34:43
  This one segment which is very short and I don't think it has
• 34:46
  the the ROI for the amount of time spent.
• 34:49
  And I said, OK, at the end of the season because we break up
• 34:52
  things into seasons, I'm going to cut the segment.
• 34:55
  And we actually had people that let us know, oh, that's my
• 34:58
  favorite segment. They could have just been
• 34:59
  screwing with me because they knew how much work it is because
• 35:02
  I've complained about it. But because of that, I've
• 35:04
  continued to do that because, you know, if someone cares
• 35:08
  enough to listen I to the show, I'm going to listen to what they
• 35:10
  have to say about the show, yeah.
• 35:14
  Yeah, no, I do this. It's the same for me when I
• 35:17
  think about the idea of quitting.
• 35:18
  And again, it's never really, I've never same as you.
• 35:21
  I've never really sat there and thought, oh, I'm going to quit.
• 35:23
  Like, I just never really crossed my mind.
• 35:25
  But when I get frustrated, I remember about those few people
• 35:29
  that listen to the show and then I think about.
• 35:32
  How amazing that actually is because podcast, it's an hour,
• 35:37
  maybe 2. That's a lot of time.
• 35:39
  And that person has sat down and listened to that.
• 35:41
  I know people that reached out to me who've, you know, maybe
• 35:44
  they've listened to it in, you know, half an hour here, half an
• 35:46
  hour there. But they listened to it and
• 35:49
  they're like, yeah, I like this. I like what you're doing, Keep
• 35:51
  it up. And that motivates me.
• 35:54
  And also a question I want to ask you because I feel that this
• 35:57
  way, do you find this a little bit addictive?
• 36:03
  At times it is, you know, it's a dopamine hit, probably.
• 36:09
  And I think that there are, there are moments that, and
• 36:15
  they're stupid, stupid moments, but they're just these little
• 36:19
  moments and you have something. If you want to go with that so
• 36:21
  you don't forget, you can or I can finish.
• 36:22
  No, no, no, no. I was just agreeing with you.
• 36:25
  Yeah, totally. We were we were talking last
• 36:27
  week and what movie we did Valley Girl.
• 36:31
  The Nicolas Cage film. When Nicolas Cage's first films
• 36:33
  we did, Valley Girl, never seen it before.
• 36:35
  And this is actually my season of unseen movies, movies from
• 36:39
  the 80s I've never seen before. So we're going through different
• 36:42
  movies that I had never seen before because it's interesting
• 36:44
  to see a movie from a time period today, because there's
• 36:48
  definitely differences between films today and films then.
• 36:51
  I feel the same about. With movies but also music as
• 36:55
  well. It's it's very strange.
• 36:57
  Yeah, like there's like an indie band that was into introduced to
• 37:00
  recently. That would have definitely been
• 37:02
  the sort of band that would have listened to growing up in the
• 37:04
  2000s. And that is weird because they
• 37:06
  sounded like so many other bands was listening to you, but then
• 37:09
  it's just you just hadn't have heard of them at the time.
• 37:11
  It's intriguing. But we were doing, we're in the
• 37:15
  middle of talking about this and I will just throw out like a non
• 37:20
  sequitur that. And just keep going.
• 37:22
  And usually it's just we'll go over my podcast partner's mind.
• 37:27
  It'll probably go past the audience's mind because it's
• 37:29
  just something so quick in a stream of consciousness that
• 37:33
  it's not going to mean anything to anybody but me.
• 37:35
  Because once again, the podcast is for me because of my ego.
• 37:38
  But I referenced a bit from an Eddie Murphy comedy show and
• 37:44
  immediately after I did it, my podcast partner.
• 37:49
  Did the musical bit that accompanies it like just a
• 37:53
  cappella, and it was just so off the cuff, so completely
• 37:58
  unplanned. It was like I was In Sync with
• 38:01
  him that we had that kind of connection.
• 38:03
  And it was it was just it's things like that where I'm just
• 38:07
  blown away sometimes with those little moments, those little
• 38:10
  pieces, those little victories, if you will.
• 38:13
  I feel exactly the same. It's one of the reasons why I
• 38:15
  keep doing the show and I I remark that to my guests every
• 38:18
  once in a while, like this show, this moment, et cetera.
• 38:22
  I got a guest on recently who who wrote a book about
• 38:25
  consciousness right. We we we spoke about a bunch of
• 38:28
  different things but one thing we've we spoke about was this
• 38:30
  idea of like flow states. You know it's like that could be
• 38:34
  you know you're in a fast-paced job but working at a bar like
• 38:37
  when I've worked at a bar before I've it almost felt like I was.
• 38:40
  You know, even thinking about that, I was just going from
• 38:41
  thing to thing like that. And sometimes this show feels
• 38:45
  like that, like I completely forget what I'm doing and I'm
• 38:47
  just in the moment in the zone. And that's dangerous cuz you
• 38:51
  gotta remember, hey, there's a show here, I can't let this go
• 38:54
  off and off the rails or whatever, But I don't know, I
• 38:58
  think like the biggest thing that's changed for me, and maybe
• 39:01
  this is the same for you 2 is like.
• 39:04
  I feel very confident about this and what I do.
• 39:07
  And when I listen to those older, earlier podcasts or when
• 39:10
  I go and appear on someone's show, who's just starting out, I
• 39:13
  can tell that like the confidence isn't there.
• 39:16
  And because of that it's it's difficult to listen to.
• 39:20
  I mean, everyone has to start somewhere.
• 39:22
  But I think the biggest thing with like being an online
• 39:25
  persona or being a podcaster or whatever is that you have to
• 39:29
  kind of decide on like. Okay.
• 39:31
  Who am I as a presenter? Who am I as this?
• 39:34
  Like, how does this work for me? Will this work?
• 39:38
  Do I have to put on like a persona or am I just myself?
• 39:44
  Will I have segments or will it be more discussional based?
• 39:46
  I mean, for example, you're a former TV producer and I feel
• 39:50
  like a lot of that probably would have.
• 39:55
  Maybe consciously, subconsciously gone into like
• 39:57
  how you plan the show because you figured, well, okay, I'm
• 39:59
  doing a show, so this is, it has to have segments.
• 40:02
  It has to be like this. And it's like, it doesn't.
• 40:04
  Think of that structure. Yeah, but it's like, I don't
• 40:06
  know a lot of shows that I like that.
• 40:08
  Like one of my favorite shows to listen to is this show.
• 40:10
  And I've said this so many times.
• 40:11
  I apologize guys, but I love this.
• 40:13
  Go check it out. Who are these podcasts?
• 40:16
  It's it's a group of guys have been doing this show now for
• 40:19
  like. It's got about 400 episodes now
• 40:22
  and they have a lot of fun. They bash people like stuttering
• 40:25
  John and all the Howard Stern, Law, Opie and Anthony all that.
• 40:30
  And honestly, there's a lot of fun they do.
• 40:32
  They have some outrageous moments, though, to be warned.
• 40:36
  But one thing that they do that I love is that they put Bad
• 40:39
  podcast on blast. They talk about all the things
• 40:42
  that are wrong with podcasts. They have fun with it, they have
• 40:46
  jokes with it, but they kind of make you realize that like.
• 40:49
  Just because you got big listenership doesn't mean it's a
• 40:51
  good show, which is painful sometimes.
• 40:54
  And I'm thinking like, oh man, like I'd I'd love to have
• 40:56
  thousands of hundreds of thousands of listeners.
• 40:59
  And I can't believe they're listening to this trash.
• 41:01
  Like, why would they listen to this?
• 41:02
  And it's like, sometimes. And that's the thing.
• 41:04
  If you're well known, if you're like a celebrity established,
• 41:07
  right, you can pretty much put any old slop out there and
• 41:10
  people will listen to it. And sometimes the hosts of said
• 41:13
  show will. Say as much.
• 41:17
  They'll be like, oh, we'll put out anything and you guys will
• 41:19
  listen to it. And it's like, do you know what?
• 41:22
  That might be the case for a while.
• 41:25
  But the reality of doing a show is that over time, you're going
• 41:29
  to be less relevant, right? You're not always going to be
• 41:32
  having your your 15 minutes in the sunshine and just nailing
• 41:35
  it. At some point you're going to be
• 41:36
  irrelevant. You're going to be not as
• 41:38
  interesting. And then it comes down to, well,
• 41:41
  who are you in this show? Are you actually putting
• 41:43
  something out there that's worth listening to, or are you just
• 41:47
  putting crap out there? Like, why should people check
• 41:49
  this out? And you know what?
• 41:50
  It happens. Giving Opie as an example, Opie
• 41:55
  and Anthony, for those who don't know, they did a very successful
• 41:57
  radio show in the 2000s. I was a big fan, big fan of.
• 42:01
  Yeah and and they were they were great.
• 42:02
  So it's, I can't remember. His full name is Opie and
• 42:05
  Anthony Cumia and they had Jim Norton and a bunch of other
• 42:08
  comedians and I feel like very much.
• 42:11
  Those radio shows set the standard for what podcasts good
• 42:15
  podcasts would become years later.
• 42:18
  And there's many, many, many good podcasts out there that are
• 42:22
  more like, you know, radio shows, really.
• 42:25
  Because that's where it comes from.
• 42:27
  Podcasting comes from, but not everyone chooses to do it like
• 42:30
  that, and they don't have to because obviously on radio you
• 42:33
  have to feel dead air. There's all these commitments
• 42:35
  you have to adhere to that you don't have to deal with with
• 42:37
  podcasting. But I feel like that doesn't
• 42:40
  mean that you should not put any less effort in.
• 42:42
  And a lot of these these guys that used to be on these shows,
• 42:46
  like Opie and Anthony were so successful and these guys were
• 42:49
  millionaires because of it. Anthony Cumia, still very
• 42:51
  successful, still does all this stuff, right.
• 42:54
  Opie, he, he's lucky to get like 10 listeners in like a Facebook
• 42:59
  Live. This is a guy who was on
• 43:01
  national radio in the United States, in the major markets
• 43:04
  like New York, I believe in other States and it's like.
• 43:07
  At one point when he started, right when he came off all of
• 43:11
  this and he was, he was just starting.
• 43:12
  He had about 100,000 listeners for his respective podcast,
• 43:16
  right. And then over time, he's
• 43:19
  mismanaged that, put his audience off and now it's down
• 43:21
  to like 10 people, if he's lucky and think about it at one time,
• 43:25
  household name now, nothing Now that can change.
• 43:28
  And I understand that he's putting the efforts in to try
• 43:30
  and change that now, but at the end of the day.
• 43:33
  You can't just bank on like name recognition or your brand
• 43:37
  forever. Sooner or later it's going to
• 43:39
  come down to is this show good or not, You know, that's the
• 43:42
  fundamentals of it. And having a structured show,
• 43:44
  having segments, caring about what you put out there is the
• 43:49
  most important thing. I've recorded shows before and
• 43:51
  probably sound like a broken record saying this because I've
• 43:53
  said it before, but I've done shows where I sat down, I
• 43:56
  recorded it. I thought, this is trash.
• 43:59
  I refused to put this out and I didn't put out.
• 44:01
  And that's an hour of my life I'll never get back.
• 44:03
  Wow. But I've never done that.
• 44:05
  I should have done that with Raging Bull, because that was
• 44:07
  such a shit show. But you mentioned Please.
• 44:10
  Tell me more What's Raging Bull? Raging Bull The Movie Robert De
• 44:14
  Niro Pesci. It was oh man, it.
• 44:18
  Was just the podcast was it was just bad and it wasn't bad.
• 44:22
  We've had one of our worst podcast is actually one of our
• 44:25
  most fun podcasts to listen to and that is the tango and cash
• 44:29
  one and that's. I'm so hammered by the end of it
• 44:33
  that I can't even speak and. You just you went on top of
• 44:37
  things. You just.
• 44:38
  And I'm running the board while I'm doing this.
• 44:41
  So it is a shit show. But you mentioned Opie and
• 44:46
  Anthony, and you mentioned Jim Norton.
• 44:47
  Jim Norton has and they've been on.
• 44:50
  On break for a while, but he has this show called The Chip
• 44:52
  Chipperson Show. I don't know if you're familiar
• 44:54
  with that. It's podcast.
• 44:56
  No, I'm familiar with Jim. I know that they all do
• 44:58
  different like shows together and sometimes like, so they've
• 45:01
  done like SiriusXM and stuff like that.
• 45:03
  They collaborate a lot basically.
• 45:05
  But he has this podcast that he does, that he's doing a
• 45:09
  character for the entire podcast.
• 45:11
  He's not Jim Norton. He's actually this character the
• 45:14
  entire time. And once you get it.
• 45:18
  Once it clicks in your head what it actually is trying to do,
• 45:21
  it's brilliant and it is. It's one of the few podcasts
• 45:25
  that I listen to regularly and I don't miss an episode when that
• 45:29
  one comes out. But you mentioned flow and you
• 45:32
  also mentioned, you know, confidence.
• 45:37
  First of all, flow and flow state I I went to a conference
• 45:40
  about that. Two years ago.
• 45:42
  So it's very very big in project management and and and you know
• 45:46
  managing things but. Sure you love those buzzwords,
• 45:50
  don't you? In the business context.
• 45:54
  All right, You owe me a big one for this because you're having
• 45:57
  to make me edit you just. Said you don't edit, just leave
• 46:01
  it in. It'll be because it just cuts
• 46:03
  off and then suddenly we just chat like obviously something's
• 46:07
  happened. Yeah, there was, there was a
• 46:08
  power outage on Matthew's side and.
• 46:11
  I hate. I'm just making a big deal.
• 46:13
  It's not a big deal. I've been a very problematic
• 46:17
  guest this time. I mean, compared to last time,
• 46:19
  I've kidded much more problems than last time, so.
• 46:23
  I will say though, I think it's interesting because it's quite.
• 46:30
  In terms of the conversation we've been having about
• 46:31
  podcasting and broadcasting and the way things happen and how
• 46:35
  it's different every time, it is kind of quite spot on.
• 46:37
  It happens. I had a show not long ago, it's
• 46:40
  about 10 episodes back where I completely lost all video.
• 46:46
  It caught like most of my video, but start, stop, start got
• 46:49
  basically none of my guests video.
• 46:52
  But I had all the audio and of course audio is king.
• 46:54
  Like it's a podcast. People forget this as well when
• 46:57
  they're doing their show because I know there's a lot of people
• 46:59
  that listen to my show on Apple Podcasts, Google podcasts, et
• 47:02
  cetera and a Spotify and yeah, there was a video or a version.
• 47:08
  But you do have to think about the fact that it is audio.
• 47:11
  It's it's, you know, it comes from radio.
• 47:13
  And I think a lot of people tend to forget that.
• 47:15
  And obviously we were on the topic of Opie and Anthony and
• 47:17
  Jim Norton and all these people and it's like I think those
• 47:20
  guys. You know, they'll always
• 47:24
  hopefully understand that, you know, it's about how you
• 47:28
  structure the show and what you put out there.
• 47:30
  And yes, you don't have to deal with the adverts anymore.
• 47:33
  Yeah, you don't have to worry about fitting Dead Space or
• 47:36
  whatever, but you do have to have a back and forth there, you
• 47:40
  know, Like, I like to think of this like if this was on the
• 47:42
  radio, this would have been an interview discussion in in
• 47:47
  pretty much the exact same way, except maybe every now and again
• 47:49
  we cut to commercial. But it still would follow the
• 47:52
  same principle, like I treat it in the same manner.
• 47:55
  And I think people should, you know.
• 47:57
  And when they don't, that's when your show tends to fail.
• 47:59
  And you know, it's interesting. I've seen shows come and go
• 48:02
  that, you know, they got the numbers.
• 48:05
  I might have even appeared on the show and they were doing
• 48:07
  really well. And then they just stopped.
• 48:09
  And I don't know why they were getting everything.
• 48:11
  They they're ticking all the boxes.
• 48:12
  But I guess for them, the love just wasn't there or they just,
• 48:16
  I don't know, they weren't reaching their goals.
• 48:18
  And it makes me laugh because like.
• 48:21
  Yeah, there's been times when I've had massive dips in the
• 48:23
  show. Like, I remember it went from
• 48:25
  like the standard, like 30 views per episode or whatever it was
• 48:31
  right down, right down to like 10-5 if I'm lucky.
• 48:34
  And it was brutal because this was like 2 years in and I was
• 48:37
  like, damn, man, like. Do you find that that's due to
• 48:40
  like what it is you're talking about or is it it so you you
• 48:44
  can't like pinpoint I I find. Some of our some of our peaks
• 48:49
  and valleys are based on what what it is.
• 48:52
  If we're doing a like a banger of a film, if we're doing a Top
• 48:56
  Gun, we're going to draw a lot more than if we're doing an
• 48:59
  obscure film. OK, so here's the thing with my
• 49:04
  show, because I'm the same as you business mind I look for
• 49:08
  patterns, I look for these things and that's where the
• 49:10
  frustration bores for me. That comes from it because if it
• 49:14
  was a topic based show. And I was just doing some topics
• 49:17
  that just aren't as interesting. I fully accept the fact that,
• 49:19
  like those episodes would just not get as many views and that's
• 49:23
  fine. And again, I don't sit there and
• 49:25
  constantly look at the numbers. But at the same time, I do get a
• 49:31
  bit frustrated because the show is an interview based show and I
• 49:34
  suppose the draw is the guest. But then people don't always
• 49:37
  know the guest. And I suppose in many ways I'm
• 49:41
  I'm banking on the idea of like my own name value.
• 49:45
  And then also, which is ironic considering what I said earlier,
• 49:47
  but this idea that people might see me potentially as a good
• 49:51
  interviewer or a good broadcaster or something.
• 49:53
  That's what I'm hoping that when people see me on Twitch or
• 49:57
  Tiktok, or they see maybe a film that I've done or something, and
• 50:01
  then they look at my other work and they go okay, he's trying to
• 50:03
  create these different properties.
• 50:06
  I know what to expect with this guy.
• 50:08
  I'm going to check it out. That's my hope.
• 50:10
  But I realize that's banking on a lot.
• 50:13
  I have had shows which have been on specific topics and they've
• 50:16
  done massively better than just my guest only shows.
• 50:20
  And you know, I thought about changing this show into a topic
• 50:23
  only, but right now it's just open to anyone and everyone.
• 50:27
  So for example, it's not just that.
• 50:30
  I think that's the misconception about my show as well.
• 50:32
  I'll have anyone on if you're willing to have a good
• 50:34
  conversation and you're not hateful.
• 50:36
  So you haven't turned anybody down, you haven't had anybody?
• 50:38
  Turn to you and didn't say that. OK, OK.
• 50:42
  I said what I'm saying is like I'm willing to pretty much have
• 50:45
  anyone on so long as like I know they can have a good
• 50:48
  conversation with me and I know that they're not hateful in some
• 50:54
  way because you can you can have people on the show and and they
• 50:59
  won't really know how to to act on a podcast which I.
• 51:05
  That sounds douchey. I realized that.
• 51:07
  But like. We've all had.
• 51:08
  There's validity to it though. I mean, there really is because.
• 51:14
  I'll give you a really good example before we get into your
• 51:16
  stand up right, because I know you're a comedian and I know
• 51:18
  it's a valid point. I just want to share this one
• 51:20
  thing like you spoke about, like, have you ever done any bad
• 51:23
  shows? Yes.
• 51:25
  Right. But there's a particular one
• 51:26
  that I put out that I feel like I shouldn't have put out.
• 51:28
  It was a long time ago. It's probably like a year and a
• 51:30
  half ago now and it was like an author or something.
• 51:34
  And I had him on the show and he was just giving me nothing.
• 51:38
  And I don't mean that you have to make a big song and dance and
• 51:40
  be like, oh, aren't I amazing? I do this, I do that.
• 51:43
  That's never what I'm looking for.
• 51:45
  What I'm looking for is if I ask you a question, you give me, you
• 51:50
  give me an answer, Right. But like, you give me like, a
• 51:53
  proper answer. It's like, it's like, for
• 51:55
  instance, if I come up to you in the street and I say, hey, how
• 51:57
  are you? How are you?
• 51:58
  And you go, I'm fine, right? People were never wanting just
• 52:03
  I'm fine. They want to, they wanna get
• 52:05
  something started, they wanna. The whole point of trying to get
• 52:08
  the conversation going is you wanna expand upon it.
• 52:12
  Now you can make the counter argument or ask better questions
• 52:15
  then and that's a fair argument. But at the same time there has
• 52:21
  to be a willingness. You know, you know, and we've
• 52:24
  all been in that, in that scenario where you're having a
• 52:26
  conversation with someone and you're trying to get it started
• 52:28
  and they keep giving you one word answers like, yeah, it's
• 52:31
  fine, Yeah, I did this. Uh, huh.
• 52:33
  Yeah. And you're just like, well, fuck
• 52:35
  me, man. Like why are you here?
• 52:37
  Why are you on this show? And of course it's like, oh, I
• 52:39
  want to promote myself. And it's like, like, I remember
• 52:41
  one time I had a guest on my show who and I said this before,
• 52:43
  but it just outrages me Like they were trying to promote this
• 52:47
  book and these these things, they do this their services.
• 52:50
  And I said to them, like, okay, what's the first bit of advice
• 52:54
  you'd give to someone if they were, you know, trying to seek?
• 52:59
  I think it was like a mental health or something, right.
• 53:01
  And the first, their first suggestion, number one, first
• 53:04
  thing you do is, oh, I'd tell them to go to my website and
• 53:07
  check out these links and I'm like, really?
• 53:08
  That's the first thing you do? Like, I didn't say it at the
• 53:11
  time, but I was like really? Like, I get that you're trying
• 53:14
  to promote yourself, but fuck me, man.
• 53:16
  Like. Now I'm just unfiltered.
• 53:18
  Now normally this is me on my other show, my Patreon show.
• 53:22
  But here it is. Here's the bill.
• 53:23
  Me unfiltered. Don't give fun.
• 53:27
  See, I would argue when you go up to somebody on the street.
• 53:31
  OK, well that's an extreme example, but my point is.
• 53:35
  But when you ask someone who's like, Hey, how's it going?
• 53:38
  Oh, you know, my Sciatica's acting up.
• 53:40
  All right, That is a that's a that's a greeting you give out
• 53:46
  of just human decency. OK, fine.
• 53:49
  Fine. Let's, let's.
• 53:50
  Because you're picking up my words, right.
• 53:51
  Let's say I come up to you. We we're buddies.
• 53:53
  We haven't seen each other in a while.
• 53:54
  Right. And I say to you, how's the job
• 53:57
  going? And you say, yeah, fine good.
• 54:01
  But I want you to expand upon that.
• 54:03
  I understand. Hi, how are you is not
• 54:05
  necessarily that that can just be a hello.
• 54:08
  I get it, right? We we we're like that in the UK.
• 54:10
  It's fine. I don't think anyone really
• 54:12
  expects you to start talking about like the last six months
• 54:15
  and how terrible it's been for you and how your mom's in
• 54:17
  hospital and all this shit. And it's like, I get that, I
• 54:19
  understand that. But at the same time, if we're
• 54:21
  having a proper conversation or we're trying to, I want to know
• 54:24
  like, well, how's it been for the last two years since I last
• 54:27
  saw you? And you're just giving me.
• 54:28
  Yeah, you know, fine, same old. Yeah, I'm like, well, let's just
• 54:34
  not let's just see you later, you know?
• 54:38
  Let's not have a conversation. There, the interesting thing is,
• 54:42
  and I'm surprised that, and I guess I feel a little bit less
• 54:46
  special that you'll have anybody on your podcast.
• 54:49
  Whoa, actually. Again, I didn't say I didn't
• 54:53
  mean it in that way. What I mean, and again, I must
• 54:56
  reiterate this, I'm looking for someone who's willing to have a
• 54:59
  good conversation. You know, when I say that, what
• 55:02
  I mean is I think a lot of people assume like, oh, I need
• 55:04
  to cuz I've had a lot of people say like, oh, I'd be on your
• 55:07
  show, but you know, I'm not doing anything or I'm not like
• 55:10
  special like your other guest. I'm not doing an XY&Z.
• 55:12
  It's like it's not about oh you're I'm doing this really
• 55:16
  special thing or I have this really amazing career or
• 55:18
  whatever. Everyone has something to offer.
• 55:20
  Everyone has value. That's what I'm trying to
• 55:22
  illustrate. As a point, you can have a good
• 55:25
  conversation with anyone, but they have to be willing to have
• 55:28
  a good conversation with you. And that was my point.
• 55:31
  That was the thing that really scared me about the first time I
• 55:34
  was coming on your podcast was because I was looking at your
• 55:36
  guest list and I was looking at your, your subjects that you
• 55:39
  guys were talking about. And everybody had like this,
• 55:43
  this SME area, the subject matter expert area.
• 55:46
  They had something that they were a person that was an expert
• 55:51
  on something and. I was looking at, I was doing
• 55:55
  some internal, you know, looking at myself and realized, OK, I do
• 56:00
  this, I've done that, but I'm not really an expert at
• 56:04
  anything. I'm I'm kind of all over the
• 56:06
  place. And that was kind of the concern
• 56:09
  of what what am I going to bring to your podcast?
• 56:13
  Because just like I don't want somebody to come on my show and
• 56:16
  not bring value the few times that I do guest spots on other
• 56:20
  podcasts. I want to make sure I'm bringing
• 56:22
  value to their podcast because I don't want to be a net negative.
• 56:25
  I don't want to be something that's drawing down, you know,
• 56:28
  their energy, their their listenership, their viewership.
• 56:31
  I want to be something that if, if nothing else, they are no
• 56:34
  better, no worse than they were before I came into their little
• 56:38
  sphere. I totally agree dude.
• 56:40
  I mean, I think if anything, sounds like we both suffer from
• 56:44
  this whole not really thinking a lot of oneself problem.
• 56:48
  Or maybe in past the syndrome. I don't know cuz I'm exactly the
• 56:50
  same. Like I I might be confident but
• 56:52
  believe me, I doubt myself all the time.
• 56:55
  Like whenever someone has me on their show, I'm like what the
• 56:59
  fuck are they gonna ask me? I'm I'm I've got nothing going
• 57:02
  on, you know, I'm like a failing struggling act to to barely get.
• 57:06
  Five people to pay attention to him at any one time and you
• 57:10
  know, never been anything you've ever even heard of and you know,
• 57:13
  can't even fucking find a job right now.
• 57:14
  Like why the fuck would you want me on your show?
• 57:16
  Like for what purpose would you want me on your show?
• 57:18
  I'll. Give you a little tidbit that'll
• 57:21
  make you feel better. Yeah.
• 57:22
  So after I was on your podcast last time 2 1/2 years ago, I
• 57:27
  think it was in March of. 2021. April was April. 2021 episode
• 57:32
  82. Is that when you published or is
• 57:35
  that when we did it? That's when published.
• 57:37
  Okay. So it would have been marked
• 57:39
  Okay because. And the reason I say that is
• 57:42
  because I was writing that I started my new contract April
• 57:46
  2nd or April 3rd and I had mentioned that I was starting a
• 57:50
  new contract and that's how I could place where it was.
• 57:53
  But unlike your podcast, unlike my podcast.
• 57:57
  When I was on your podcast, I actually went out to my Facebook
• 58:01
  feed and I put links into it for people to go see it.
• 58:04
  I don't do that with my podcast. And that's because your your
• 58:10
  podcast circle includes lots of people.
• 58:13
  And a lot of the people that are in my podcast circle are people
• 58:16
  that do not need to hear my podcast, my regular podcast.
• 58:20
  Because. And it's not that I'm
• 58:22
  embarrassed about it at all, I I'm 100% not embarrassed my
• 58:25
  mother has asked me. You know should I listen to your
• 58:28
  podcast? And I said no you shouldn't and
• 58:31
  well why shouldn't I listen to it?
• 58:32
  It's like mom, I I talk about how how do I put this.
• 58:39
  I talk about eating pussy a lot on the podcast and.
• 58:42
  I didn't know expect that. I did not expect that.
• 58:46
  Wow. OK.
• 58:47
  So you know there there's certain things, certain groups
• 58:50
  and you know, you also try to have like this professionalism
• 58:52
  about it, but I went on and I. You know I posted links to it
• 58:56
  and I had a lot of comments from from female friends of mine.
• 59:02
  Who is this guy? How can I meet this guy?
• 59:07
  You know he looks like a model you look like a goblin.
• 59:10
  I mean there's there's this difference there's you know
• 59:13
  there was a lot of interest from the female side I'd love to meet
• 59:17
  to meet this guy. Well you're you're on the wrong
• 59:19
  is. That what you said.
• 59:23
  Even back in the day, no. You know, and I, when when you
• 59:30
  do a video podcast, we talked about how everything's kind of a
• 59:32
  time capsule. When I look at this podcast,
• 59:37
  when you publish it and I look at it, the last one, just how
• 59:40
  much older I look in 2, 1/2 years.
• 59:44
  And my wife actually said, aren't you going to shave your
• 59:46
  beard before you do it? Because it makes you look so
• 59:48
  much older and I'm like, I'm this age.
• 59:52
  It it it is what it is. And honestly for her sake the
• 59:56
  worse I look the better it is for her because you know if if
• 1:00:04
  you are my my podcast partner he he talked about he had to stop
• 1:00:08
  wearing his wedding ring for a period of time because of
• 1:00:11
  because of his he he's a bug guy.
• 1:00:14
  He he does you know. I want to say taxidermy, but
• 1:00:18
  that's not right. He he kills bugs.
• 1:00:21
  There you go. But he he deals with a lot of
• 1:00:23
  chemicals and for reasons he had to stop wearing his ring for a
• 1:00:26
  while because of some chemical thing.
• 1:00:28
  I think it was. And I don't wear a wedding ring,
• 1:00:31
  so I wore a wedding ring for the first year that we were married.
• 1:00:35
  That was the agreement. I would wear it for the first
• 1:00:37
  year and that's it. I don't wear like, oh, I wear a
• 1:00:39
  watch now, but I never wore a watch either.
• 1:00:41
  The only reason I wear a watch is because it's a quick way for
• 1:00:43
  me to get my text messages for me to see.
• 1:00:46
  My calendar, stuff like that. I don't wear anything other
• 1:00:49
  than, you know, clothes usually. And he said, so now that I'm not
• 1:00:53
  going to be wearing a wedding ring, I'm going to have women
• 1:00:56
  coming up to me all the time. And like, no, that is not how it
• 1:00:58
  works at all. The wedding ring brings, you
• 1:01:02
  know, the the women to the yard. I mean, having a wedding ring is
• 1:01:06
  not something that is going to turn women off.
• 1:01:09
  It's going to be more likely to turn them on and.
• 1:01:13
  Fascinating, that, isn't it? The reverse psychology thing?
• 1:01:15
  Because I've noticed like, a lot, like when I've been in
• 1:01:18
  relationships, I got right now I'm single and it's like, I
• 1:01:21
  don't exist to women, right. But when I'm, I've been in
• 1:01:24
  relationships, it's been like, oh, suddenly now you're
• 1:01:28
  interested. Oh, that's typical.
• 1:01:29
  But then you, I suppose you give off a different energy, don't
• 1:01:31
  you? You give off a different energy
• 1:01:33
  and it's also if somebody else wants that person, they have to
• 1:01:37
  have something that you don't know about.
• 1:01:40
  And one of the things I've always said with with my wife
• 1:01:43
  is. My wife and I met at work.
• 1:01:47
  Not where I work anymore, but where I worked at the time.
• 1:01:50
  And we couldn't be more different.
• 1:01:53
  And when people found out that we were just dating at first,
• 1:01:57
  before we got married, a lot of people were I, I, I, I don't see
• 1:02:02
  it. I don't get it.
• 1:02:04
  And but that also raised that kind of interest.
• 1:02:07
  It's like, well, he's got to have something for her to be
• 1:02:11
  interested in him. I don't know what it is.
• 1:02:14
  And it's like I got, I don't have money.
• 1:02:16
  I don't know what was I bringing to the table.
• 1:02:18
  And that's a question. I still can't figure out what it
• 1:02:20
  is I bring to the table because she brought so much to the
• 1:02:23
  table. She brings so much more to the
• 1:02:24
  table than I do. She is definitely in every
• 1:02:29
  relationship. There's a winner and there's a
• 1:02:30
  loser. I think.
• 1:02:31
  And I think it changes over time.
• 1:02:34
  Sometimes you might be the winner in the relationship.
• 1:02:37
  Sometimes you might be the loser in the relationship.
• 1:02:39
  I am the winner in this relationship.
• 1:02:42
  I've always been the winner in this relationship.
• 1:02:44
  She has always been the loser in this relationship.
• 1:02:48
  And nothing is more symbolic of that is when you're in high
• 1:02:54
  school, at least in the US1 of like the the dreams.
• 1:02:58
  One of those like things you can say was successful is I dated
• 1:03:02
  the prom queen or I dated the homecoming queen.
• 1:03:04
  I married the homecoming queen. She married a guy who was like
• 1:03:09
  third chair on the chess team. So I mean, I won that battle,
• 1:03:13
  She did not win that battle. And she's more successful than
• 1:03:18
  me. She's more social than me.
• 1:03:21
  I really don't bring a lot to the table, but she still loves
• 1:03:26
  me, which is all I can ask for. What?
• 1:03:32
  What is it do you think that she felt?
• 1:03:34
  I mean, must be a personality, a confidence.
• 1:03:38
  You know I have. I I'm just like one of those
• 1:03:43
  people. It it's like George Costanza, if
• 1:03:46
  you're familiar with Seinfeld at all.
• 1:03:51
  I want to say no, but I am. I'm familiar with Seinfeld.
• 1:03:55
  So one of the in one of the episodes, George's whole thing
• 1:04:00
  was he just had to meet someone like three times because by the
• 1:04:03
  third time you just kind of get stuck in their head like an
• 1:04:06
  earworm. And that's.
• 1:04:09
  Kind of how I always saw myself is when you first meet me or you
• 1:04:13
  first see me, there's not an appeal there.
• 1:04:15
  There's not a something that is drawing you to them.
• 1:04:19
  But after that multiple times exposure, it's like the
• 1:04:22
  radiation sets in and they get infected.
• 1:04:25
  And I think that's what it is, is after a period of time
• 1:04:29
  there's just something about probably my personality because
• 1:04:34
  it takes a while for it to click and even after we were dating.
• 1:04:39
  We were at, we were at a club, We were at a bar watching a
• 1:04:43
  band, a band called Warrant, probably never heard of it.
• 1:04:47
  They had a big hit, cherry pie, which if you ever go to strip
• 1:04:50
  club you will hear. But they were big in the late
• 1:04:54
  80s and we are. We saw them at this club, this
• 1:04:58
  club actually, where the guitarist for I want to say
• 1:05:02
  Primus, but guitarist for No Pantera.
• 1:05:05
  The guitarist for Pantera was killed at this bar.
• 1:05:09
  Done by Darrell but. But we were at this bar on my
• 1:05:11
  birthday and she took me because she had no desire to see this
• 1:05:15
  band and I was just blatto and and I'm, I was just doing, we've
• 1:05:22
  been together like 3 months at this time and I was doing my
• 1:05:24
  normal spiel, my normal bullshit that I do.
• 1:05:27
  And it's like, well, you know when when we break up, you'll
• 1:05:32
  always remember the fact that you saw this band at this shitty
• 1:05:35
  little bar and she got really, really upset.
• 1:05:38
  So I don't understand why you always say things like that when
• 1:05:43
  we break up, when this has happened, when it's over and and
• 1:05:46
  then it just clicked in her head.
• 1:05:48
  She she got my personality at that point that like you said
• 1:05:53
  before we have this you and I have this thing where we have a
• 1:05:58
  lot of selfdoubt or imposter syndrome and.
• 1:06:05
  A lot of that I have always put off in the way I talk to people.
• 1:06:09
  And once in you see that it's a defense mechanism because you
• 1:06:14
  say certain things to push that person away or not even push
• 1:06:18
  them away but to keep them at arm's length.
• 1:06:21
  But once they get past that, once they see that through that,
• 1:06:24
  then they they kind of get into your inner circle, if you will.
• 1:06:28
  I think that's something to be said for, you know, putting
• 1:06:31
  yourself down and that being kind of.
• 1:06:36
  What's the word like? Lack of repellent?
• 1:06:40
  Like it's going to put people off if you're constantly down
• 1:06:43
  about yourself, but at the same time, I suppose it can be
• 1:06:46
  enduring, endearing in some cases.
• 1:06:49
  But it's interesting because I'd say one difference between
• 1:06:53
  yourself and myself is that while we both might be self
• 1:06:56
  deprecating, I do recognize that I have to a lot of time keep it
• 1:07:00
  to myself and not. Right.
• 1:07:03
  And but The thing is, like, when you're talking about yourself,
• 1:07:06
  and I'm like, I don't know, I think this guy's pretty great.
• 1:07:09
  I don't know, like, don't be so hard on yourself, man.
• 1:07:11
  I feel like it's a confidence issue.
• 1:07:13
  Oh no, I didn't. A lot of it, it's it's self
• 1:07:16
  deprecating and right when I was younger I think I believed it
• 1:07:20
  more than I do now. I'm very, very comfortable with
• 1:07:27
  who I am, I. I accept my shortcomings.
• 1:07:31
  I know that I have shortcomings. I know what a lot of my
• 1:07:33
  shortcomings are, and some of them I try to work on.
• 1:07:36
  Some of them I just accept as well.
• 1:07:38
  That's who I am. And I think one of the one of
• 1:07:42
  the things about getting older, both personally and
• 1:07:46
  professionally and always, is acceptance and acknowledgement
• 1:07:52
  of who you are, who you can be, who you want to be.
• 1:07:56
  And it was. Probably due to my wife that I
• 1:08:02
  got to a point totally where I'm so okay with who I am.
• 1:08:09
  And when I was younger, when I was growing up, I can give my
• 1:08:14
  favorite teacher I ever had, my 4th grade teacher.
• 1:08:17
  He was somebody who he always thought that I was.
• 1:08:21
  I was destined to do great things and I I didn't know about
• 1:08:24
  that, but I I remember I saw him.
• 1:08:27
  It was right, actually, right before I moved to Ohio, because
• 1:08:29
  right before I got the job that moved me to Ohio and I was
• 1:08:32
  working as a salesman in the equivalent of like a furniture
• 1:08:35
  store. So they sold televisions and
• 1:08:37
  stuff and I was working in their computer department and he saw
• 1:08:41
  me and he he just the look of disgust and disappointment in
• 1:08:47
  his face and he didn't even want to talk to me.
• 1:08:52
  And this is a guy that I considered to be a friend in
• 1:08:54
  addition to the fact that he was my 4th grade teacher and I have.
• 1:08:57
  Kept in contact with him since then, he said, you know Matt,
• 1:09:02
  you can do great things, you can do good things.
• 1:09:06
  You have to decide to do them. And if you if you don't, you're
• 1:09:13
  you're just letting yourself down.
• 1:09:15
  And if you can live with that, that's great.
• 1:09:18
  And he wasn't wrong. I mean I wasn't living up to my
• 1:09:21
  potential, but that was the thing when I was a kid was it
• 1:09:23
  was always you can do this. You are expected to do this.
• 1:09:27
  And I'd go back home or back to class reunions or be hanging out
• 1:09:33
  with people that I grew up with. And there was always a is he
• 1:09:38
  living up to his potential? And for a hot minute for like 3
• 1:09:42
  years, I was a I was an executive at eBay and I was back
• 1:09:46
  home. And it had a lot of cachet to
• 1:09:48
  say, hey, I, you know, I'm an executive at eBay.
• 1:09:51
  And when I told somebody that and they're like, yeah, that
• 1:09:54
  sounds about right. That sounds about right, and I
• 1:09:57
  hated that job. I hated it so much.
• 1:09:59
  I did it for 3 1/2 years because it paid me so much money.
• 1:10:01
  But I hated it. I just hated.
• 1:10:03
  Working there. Couple of things.
• 1:10:06
  When that person said that to you, yeah, that sounds about
• 1:10:09
  right. I thought about you, but that
• 1:10:10
  that would bother me If someone said that to me, did it bother
• 1:10:13
  you? No, because I was proud of what
• 1:10:16
  it was. It.
• 1:10:17
  It wasn't. It wasn't.
• 1:10:19
  It wasn't dismissive. It was like, this is the kind of
• 1:10:22
  thing we expected you to be doing.
• 1:10:24
  Yeah, but doesn't that kind of bother you?
• 1:10:25
  Like this idea of like, well, this is the limit of your of
• 1:10:28
  what you can achieve. This is how we see you.
• 1:10:31
  Well, it's not a limit. I mean, I didn't see it as a
• 1:10:34
  limit. I saw it as a, you know, it was,
• 1:10:38
  it was an achievement. It was not.
• 1:10:40
  Yeah, no, no, I'm not trying to deter from that.
• 1:10:42
  I just mean more like sometimes I think when when people say
• 1:10:45
  things like, yeah, that's that's what I would expect of you.
• 1:10:49
  Like that's how I see you. And I know that always kind of
• 1:10:52
  irked me in the past because I'm like, well.
• 1:10:54
  Like she was. She was hot, so I was just happy
• 1:10:56
  she thought I was going to be doing anything, so.
• 1:10:59
  Fair enough. And.
• 1:11:00
  And I mean you. You've done comedy, you know?
• 1:11:04
  All no, all comedy. I've not done comedy.
• 1:11:06
  I thought you had done comedy. No, I'm not funny.
• 1:11:11
  But you're funny. You're a comedian.
• 1:11:12
  You you go to if you go to a comedy, and this might not be
• 1:11:15
  true in the UK, but it's definitely true in the US
• 1:11:18
  Everybody that's on stage at a comedy club has problems.
• 1:11:25
  There's there's something not right about everybody that does
• 1:11:28
  comment. There's something in their past,
• 1:11:31
  in their childhood, in their upbringing that screwed them up.
• 1:11:35
  That's what made them be a stand up comic.
• 1:11:37
  I I 100% believe that and I've not met anybody that has proven
• 1:11:43
  otherwise to me. And when you talk to comics I I
• 1:11:47
  find it to be 100% true. Do you think it's like a form of
• 1:11:50
  a coping mechanism, like therapy almost?
• 1:11:53
  Yeah, it's it's weird, but almost all standups are are
• 1:11:57
  introverts and and and you think it would be exactly the
• 1:12:01
  opposite. But almost all of them are
• 1:12:03
  introverts. They're much happier being by
• 1:12:06
  themselves. And there's no lonelier place.
• 1:12:09
  There's no place where you are more alone than on a stage.
• 1:12:15
  And that might not make sense, but it's 100.
• 1:12:18
  Percent true? No.
• 1:12:19
  I I understand as a as an actor. I've often heard people say this
• 1:12:26
  at who are the very top of the industry?
• 1:12:29
  Like, oh, it's lonely at the top And, you know, like it's lonely
• 1:12:32
  being an actor, right. And I see it.
• 1:12:34
  I see. I don't know if that's just
• 1:12:36
  like, this is something I'm destined to do, acting.
• 1:12:39
  But I can tell you now my my life is very lonely.
• 1:12:43
  And I've tried various different things to change that.
• 1:12:46
  But I think that fundamentally. You do have to kind of at some
• 1:12:49
  point or never accept that the type of person you are and the
• 1:12:52
  way you are and the way you work and the way you reverberate.
• 1:12:55
  Like, I do have friends. I do have, like people can hang
• 1:12:57
  out with them every now and again.
• 1:12:59
  But there's a lot of being alone.
• 1:13:01
  And I it used to really, really get to me, like, on a really bad
• 1:13:06
  level. I used to think like, oh,
• 1:13:07
  there's something wrong with me, right?
• 1:13:09
  But now I think it's more like, no, it's just there's different
• 1:13:12
  types of people. That's how it is.
• 1:13:14
  And unfortunately. With things like this, being a
• 1:13:17
  creative, I think a lot of the time that does come from, from a
• 1:13:22
  place of of like maybe maybe there's trauma there, maybe
• 1:13:28
  there's bad things that have happened.
• 1:13:29
  And like, I I mean, I've always used things like music and
• 1:13:32
  acting as as a thum of of like, I don't want to say like therapy
• 1:13:37
  because I think that's wrong, but like I've used it as like a
• 1:13:40
  healing process, like when I've gone through a bad time, like
• 1:13:43
  writing a song really helps. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:13:46
  Channeling saying into a performance where.
• 1:13:49
  But so you and I don't write songs except parody songs, but
• 1:13:56
  I've written books, you know, and I would say, I would say
• 1:14:00
  therapy is actually a fair word for that.
• 1:14:02
  Honestly, depending on is, is this something you're trying to
• 1:14:06
  work through? But imagine this and this is,
• 1:14:09
  this is a bad scenario. That would be fantastic to
• 1:14:14
  happen. You go through a, let's call it
• 1:14:18
  the Taylor Swift, You have a significant other, and then you
• 1:14:22
  go through this traumatic breakup and you are devastated.
• 1:14:26
  This girl, this guy, whatever, it was everything to you.
• 1:14:32
  And you lost them for whatever reason, whether it was your
• 1:14:35
  fault, whether it was their fault, whether it was nobody's
• 1:14:37
  fault. It just didn't work no matter
• 1:14:38
  what. But you write a song and this
• 1:14:41
  song becomes a huge hit. This song becomes, you know, it
• 1:14:47
  goes viral. You get to record an album, you
• 1:14:51
  get to tour. At first you're opening for
• 1:14:53
  somebody, then you're actually doing you.
• 1:14:55
  You see our headlining. But this first song, this first
• 1:14:59
  thing that you write, this emotional piece of your history
• 1:15:03
  that dealt with this trauma, becomes your signature hit.
• 1:15:08
  You now are going out there and you are performing this thing.
• 1:15:14
  That is about your pain 200 nights a year.
• 1:15:20
  And you can't get past that because you are constantly
• 1:15:27
  reiterating, you know this pain that you went through.
• 1:15:31
  I mean it. How, how great and how terrible
• 1:15:34
  would that be at the same? Time, I think it's like, I get
• 1:15:37
  what you're saying. I get what you're saying.
• 1:15:39
  I mean when I'm doing acting, for example.
• 1:15:42
  And I need to channel like sadness into a performance that
• 1:15:46
  my character's angry or frustrated or upset like I use
• 1:15:51
  the Stanislav scheme effort and I just go into it and draw from
• 1:15:57
  from my own pain and it's it's uncomfortable.
• 1:16:00
  It is because I'm I'm essentially it's it's real.
• 1:16:05
  You know it's. I don't know for necessarily
• 1:16:08
  call it method acting, but it it it's real.
• 1:16:10
  Like I really am upset in that moment or angry and you know, we
• 1:16:14
  keep pushing and pushing and I try to use the elements around
• 1:16:18
  me to my advantage. So if the director is pissing me
• 1:16:21
  off, great, keep pushing. It's going to get more of a
• 1:16:24
  reaction. When I did this short film
• 1:16:26
  recently, there's this character, it's just like a
• 1:16:29
  silly thing where the characters like late for a job interview.
• 1:16:32
  It's supposed to be like comedy slapstick, right?
• 1:16:35
  And the idea is like, he gets to a point where like a bunch of
• 1:16:37
  birds just shit all over him and he's just like, no.
• 1:16:40
  And it's it's. You're talking about actually
• 1:16:42
  like like flying birds. Yeah, yeah yeah right.
• 1:16:45
  I thought you were talking about like, cuz you're British, you
• 1:16:47
  know, birds. No, no, no, no, no. 2 girls, 1
• 1:16:52
  cop shit. No.
• 1:16:52
  There's actual flying birds and there's this bit where?
• 1:17:00
  He. Sort of completely used.
• 1:17:03
  Just like devastated, right? And the directors didn't tell me
• 1:17:06
  to do this. I just knew this is what we
• 1:17:08
  needed to do. And he's dressed in a suit, bear
• 1:17:09
  in mind. And there's a gravel footpath,
• 1:17:12
  right? I dropped to my knees and I'm
• 1:17:15
  like. What?
• 1:17:18
  And I just, like, put loads of frustration into it.
• 1:17:20
  And because at that point, I was 5 hours deep.
• 1:17:23
  It's cold. I'm hungry.
• 1:17:25
  And you know, we need coffee. We're going to get all those
• 1:17:28
  things. But we're kind of trying to push
• 1:17:30
  to get this part of it done. And they're checking up with me.
• 1:17:33
  Directors like, you know, we'll get some coffee soon.
• 1:17:36
  Da, da, da, my, yeah, let's just keep going.
• 1:17:37
  Let's keep going. I'm not annoyed at him.
• 1:17:39
  I'm not upset or anything. But I am a bit like, but I want
• 1:17:43
  to channel that in. I want to use it.
• 1:17:45
  I don't want it to be wasted. And so.
• 1:17:48
  Whenever I think about this, like Taylor Swift doing the
• 1:17:51
  performance right, she probably is sitting there and some part
• 1:17:54
  of her is thinking maybe she thinks about it, maybe she
• 1:17:57
  doesn't, right? I know sometimes when I perform,
• 1:18:00
  a lot of the time I feel detached.
• 1:18:01
  Like if I'm singing songs about some breakup that happened four
• 1:18:05
  years ago or some dark time in my life, sometimes I feel it,
• 1:18:10
  sometimes I don't. I mean, sometimes I sit there
• 1:18:12
  and I'll play like Radiohead songs.
• 1:18:14
  And I love Radiohead. I think they're amazing, right?
• 1:18:17
  Sometimes it's just a performance.
• 1:18:18
  Other times I'd have to try and hold back tears because I'm
• 1:18:22
  feeling something I don't quite know what it is.
• 1:18:24
  And sometimes I worry like I think this is right for a
• 1:18:28
  therapy session, but you know, whatever it's, it's part of the
• 1:18:31
  performance and and it's real. But I I completely agree with
• 1:18:36
  you. I I think you it's kind of a
• 1:18:39
  double edged sword really it's it's good and bad and it'll
• 1:18:42
  always be that way because it's human emotion.
• 1:18:46
  There's happy emotions and stuff like that too.
• 1:18:49
  But if if you're gonna, I mean that's the thing as well.
• 1:18:52
  I think when when I chose acting, I chose it because yeah,
• 1:18:56
  I fell in love with it and it became something that I knew I
• 1:18:58
  had to do. And you know, it felt similar to
• 1:19:03
  music, but it felt more of an accurate representation of
• 1:19:06
  everything I I want to do because it incorporates
• 1:19:08
  everything I'm using all parts of myself.
• 1:19:11
  But when I realized like. All I have to do is just channel
• 1:19:16
  that pain and anger and everything into this
• 1:19:19
  performance. That's all I have to do.
• 1:19:22
  And it's like, yeah, but it's always going to be, it's going
• 1:19:26
  to take it out of you. So like for example, when I hear
• 1:19:29
  like the very best like method actors of of our time and people
• 1:19:33
  get a bit annoyed, they're like, oh, they go way too over the top
• 1:19:36
  with it. And I agree.
• 1:19:37
  I agree. Some of them do, OK, like no one
• 1:19:39
  wants to get mailed. You Know Animals by Gerald Leto.
• 1:19:42
  You know, I understand, allegedly I don't.
• 1:19:47
  Know I'm familiar with what you're talking about.
• 1:19:49
  Right. But at the same time, I totally
• 1:19:52
  understand if that actor wants to be away from it and and kind
• 1:19:56
  of sit in that character, sit in that feeling like I heard this
• 1:20:00
  story a while back and there's this footage of this or or
• 1:20:04
  there's a recording of this online that Christian Bale's
• 1:20:06
  like recording something, some movie.
• 1:20:09
  And he absolutely loses his fucking mind a lighting.
• 1:20:12
  Terminator. It's Terminator.
• 1:20:14
  Salvation. Is it Terminator, right?
• 1:20:15
  Yeah, he loses it, this lighting guy.
• 1:20:18
  And I listen to this a few times and I'm sure it'd be easy to sit
• 1:20:20
  there and be like, ooh, Christian Bale's an asshole.
• 1:20:23
  Unprofessional. How could you do that when it's
• 1:20:24
  like, think about this for a second.
• 1:20:28
  You're in the middle of this scene.
• 1:20:29
  It's an intense part of the scene.
• 1:20:31
  It's really intense. You're drawing on like, really
• 1:20:34
  intense emotions. And you know, it's it's a
• 1:20:36
  serious production, You know everyone there is doing a job,
• 1:20:39
  right? And you got some guy fucking
• 1:20:41
  with the lighting at the side and it's distracting and it's
• 1:20:44
  putting, you know, it's sucking you out of it.
• 1:20:46
  Now you can argue this both ways.
• 1:20:49
  Should he have spoken to that guy like that?
• 1:20:51
  Of course not. However, is the guy going to
• 1:20:57
  take him seriously if he just goes up to him and goes, oh,
• 1:20:59
  sorry. Yeah.
• 1:21:01
  It's it's just we're doing the scene could could you.
• 1:21:02
  Yeah. Just stop doing that right.
• 1:21:06
  And you could argue maybe that would work and that would be the
• 1:21:08
  bad way to do it. Right.
• 1:21:09
  But at the same time it's an emotional acting is an emotional
• 1:21:17
  thing. It's an emotional concept when
• 1:21:20
  when at its best, you know, like when you're actually doing it
• 1:21:24
  properly, you're tapping into things the.
• 1:21:28
  Yeah, and we spoke earlier about this idea of uncontrollable
• 1:21:30
  elements. It gets like that sometimes.
• 1:21:33
  And that's why you see like actors on set breaking down a
• 1:21:35
  little bit because you're tapping into something that's
• 1:21:37
  like, shit, man, this could go anywhere.
• 1:21:39
  And so when you got these people like causing a distraction to
• 1:21:42
  the side and not being professional, it causes a bit of
• 1:21:47
  a problem. But again, I do understand the
• 1:21:51
  idea of being professional and and there are these amazing
• 1:21:53
  actors, and I've said this before on the show, but people
• 1:21:55
  like Gary Oldman who can just. Stick it on and off in the
• 1:21:58
  middle. I think it's amazing.
• 1:21:59
  I think I'd love to be like that.
• 1:22:01
  That's the, that's the, that's the height of it.
• 1:22:04
  The very best method actors can do that.
• 1:22:07
  But I think a lot for many method actors, you got to sit in
• 1:22:09
  that feeling and kind of turn off the outside world and live
• 1:22:14
  in that moment. And that's not always going to
• 1:22:18
  be great for everyone else that has to be around you,
• 1:22:20
  unfortunately. I can't remember who it was.
• 1:22:23
  It's it's an older British actor.
• 1:22:25
  I think he was talking to Dustin Hoffman and I think it was, I
• 1:22:29
  want to say it was on the set of The Graduate or maybe it was on
• 1:22:32
  the set of Running Man. But in Hoffman I believe was
• 1:22:36
  like a method actor and he was talking about, he was talking to
• 1:22:40
  this other actor about he the process he was going through to
• 1:22:43
  get into this character, to get into this other characters or
• 1:22:47
  the characters head and the guy I'm talking about said.
• 1:22:50
  My dear boy, have you ever tried just acting, which I understand
• 1:22:54
  there's there's very various different methods and you
• 1:22:58
  brought Christian Bale. Christian Bale is an incredible
• 1:23:03
  actor and you have to wonder sometimes if the the amount of
• 1:23:09
  talent somebody has and the amount of attitude, if those
• 1:23:14
  things are tied. Or is that a learned behavior?
• 1:23:17
  Is it because he's Christian Bale that he acts that way?
• 1:23:22
  Or is he Christian Bale because he is that way?
• 1:23:26
  Is it chicken egg scenario? Is he that way because he can
• 1:23:30
  because he's Christian Bale? Or is he Christian Bale because
• 1:23:32
  he is that way? I know exactly what you're
• 1:23:35
  saying, but bit of comparison for a second.
• 1:23:38
  We'll give you a good example of why.
• 1:23:40
  I'll give you the answer to this question.
• 1:23:43
  Tom Cruise look at. Interviews with Tom Cruise and
• 1:23:47
  you look at interviews with Christian Bale.
• 1:23:50
  Now, what do we know about interviews?
• 1:23:52
  We know the actors have to do, like maybe several hundred in a
• 1:23:55
  day for promotion of a movie. Yeah.
• 1:23:58
  So they hear like a million of these questions and it gets
• 1:24:01
  jarring and tiring. And anyone in that kind of
• 1:24:05
  anyone would feel the same way. But when you see both of them
• 1:24:09
  doing it, Tom Cruise is putting on a performance.
• 1:24:13
  And, you know, there's. There's various reasons for
• 1:24:16
  that, but one thing I've noticed is that he's playing a
• 1:24:19
  character. He's playing Tom Cruise, he's
• 1:24:23
  playing this person. And now you can argue all that's
• 1:24:25
  wacky Hollywood, that's that Scientology shit that's, you
• 1:24:28
  know, XY&Z and you, you'd probably be right, right.
• 1:24:31
  But then you see these actors, Joaquin Phoenix, Christian Bale,
• 1:24:35
  Al Pacino, who are students of the craft when they started out.
• 1:24:42
  You know, and they all had different kind of ends.
• 1:24:45
  For example, Al Pacino is very dear to my heart.
• 1:24:46
  He's one of my very famous, very favorite actors because he was
• 1:24:50
  penniless and broke when he first got into, you know, say
• 1:24:54
  like The Godfather. No one wanted him there.
• 1:24:57
  And he knew that and he just went in there and kept doing it
• 1:25:00
  and has become one of the greatest actors of a generation.
• 1:25:05
  It comes across in interviews that they still recognize they
• 1:25:08
  are just people, you know. And listen, I think you make a
• 1:25:12
  very good point about this idea of like, how much can you
• 1:25:16
  detach, detach from like, oh, this person, this name.
• 1:25:19
  I am this person. My name carries weight,
• 1:25:21
  etcetera. But then I go back to our
• 1:25:23
  previous conversation about how, yeah, your name might mean
• 1:25:26
  something today, but it's not always going to mean something.
• 1:25:30
  And you might not always have this mesmerizing career that you
• 1:25:37
  have. Not everyone is lucky enough to
• 1:25:38
  have a steady career like that. For example, if you look at
• 1:25:41
  someone like Brendan Fraser who is recently.
• 1:25:44
  Yeah. He's he's recently had they call
• 1:25:47
  him that Renaissance. I love that career renaissance
• 1:25:50
  and I look at that and I'm like okay, Here's a guy who was
• 1:25:54
  blacklisted and was not able to get, yeah, he was doing stuff,
• 1:25:57
  but he just wasn't really featured a lot and there were a
• 1:26:00
  lot of personal things going on in his life, reasons for that.
• 1:26:02
  But he basically just wasn't picked up for any major projects
• 1:26:05
  for a long time then. Finally, he's able to kind of
• 1:26:11
  get on his feet, get in a position where he can deliver
• 1:26:13
  performances again and everyone wants him.
• 1:26:17
  And why? Because, and this is often
• 1:26:20
  something that's forgotten in in the acting industry, I feel is
• 1:26:23
  the importance of the cast and crew and the people you work
• 1:26:26
  with and like just treating people with respect.
• 1:26:30
  For example, I'll go back to the previous story about Christian
• 1:26:32
  Bale. I understand that he was very
• 1:26:34
  apologetic to that, that lighting guy and that made
• 1:26:37
  amends with that guy and. You know, he fucked up, He knew
• 1:26:40
  he fucked up and maybe he was right in that moment to like
• 1:26:43
  have a bit of a, you know, this is important and but then he
• 1:26:47
  made amends cuz he's a good guy. You can tell he's a good guy.
• 1:26:49
  He's a good person and I think that's always going to go a lot
• 1:26:52
  further than. Throwing your name and wait
• 1:26:56
  around like it like it means something and you know, like
• 1:26:58
  it's we're all just people at the end of the day.
• 1:27:00
  And I feel like largely we should always be measured by how
• 1:27:03
  we treat others, the respect we show, the love we show,
• 1:27:06
  etcetera. When it comes to like a
• 1:27:08
  professional context, that's always going to go a lot further
• 1:27:11
  too, because people are going to remember like, well, this is
• 1:27:13
  what it's like to to work with this guy.
• 1:27:15
  You know, when people think of Brendan Fraser, they think like,
• 1:27:17
  oh, he was our childhood. Oh, he was such a fun loving
• 1:27:20
  guy. Oh, he was this, that and the
• 1:27:21
  other. And he's still that guy.
• 1:27:22
  He's just older. And it's it's he's welcomed back
• 1:27:25
  with open ups. But people don't forget, they
• 1:27:27
  never forget how you treated them.
• 1:27:31
  Well, there's a, I can't remember, I think it was John
• 1:27:34
  Kerry. You know who John Kerry is?
• 1:27:36
  Hello, Jim. John Kerry was He ran for
• 1:27:41
  president against George Bush. George W Bush Interested when
• 1:27:46
  this would have been back in 2004.
• 1:27:50
  Oh, mad. OK, interesting.
• 1:27:52
  But. What?
• 1:27:53
  What? Somebody said something about
• 1:27:54
  John Kerry, which I thought was very, very true.
• 1:27:56
  And they said when you see how somebody treats their their
• 1:28:01
  staff or people that work for them, that says more about that
• 1:28:06
  person than any other indicator you can get.
• 1:28:10
  And it there was a incident where he was skiing and it was
• 1:28:14
  like a photo op and one of his people did something and and he
• 1:28:20
  was caught on film or tape or whatever.
• 1:28:23
  Berating one of the people that worked for him and having worked
• 1:28:28
  in entertainment in a couple different capacities when I was
• 1:28:32
  in television and then also you know I've I've I was in a movie
• 1:28:36
  and I talked about this on our last last podcast and when when
• 1:28:41
  you see the the people at the top whether they be the director
• 1:28:45
  or it be the the talent or whomever.
• 1:28:49
  And then you see that the way that they treat other people
• 1:28:52
  from, you know, little peons like me that was an extra or
• 1:28:56
  little peons like me that was a, you know, producer or production
• 1:28:59
  assistant, whatever the role happened to be.
• 1:29:01
  So much you can say about the personality of the people based
• 1:29:05
  on how they treat people up and down the line.
• 1:29:07
  Doesn't matter if it's a sea level executive or it is like
• 1:29:10
  the the person who's mopping the floors at an organization and
• 1:29:14
  one of the things I've tried to. Tell people that I work with,
• 1:29:18
  that I work for, that work for me is my expectations for people
• 1:29:23
  is very, very. It's very, very little.
• 1:29:25
  It's very, very minimal. The minimum expectation I have
• 1:29:29
  is that everybody has to show everybody respect.
• 1:29:34
  You don't have to be nice. You don't have to be friends
• 1:29:37
  with people. You don't even have to be
• 1:29:39
  cordial, but you have to be professional.
• 1:29:42
  And it's great if you're friends, It's great if you're
• 1:29:44
  cordial, It's great if you're nice.
• 1:29:47
  But I can't expect that. But it's when people cross that
• 1:29:51
  line into things that are are unprofessional or you're you're
• 1:29:55
  belittling somebody not because of something they do, but
• 1:30:01
  because of their station. Not necessarily their station in
• 1:30:04
  life, but their station at whatever job it happens to be.
• 1:30:08
  And then also how people are when they are famous.
• 1:30:14
  Versus when they're not famous. There was a there.
• 1:30:18
  Yeah, there was a guy from my high school that I knew.
• 1:30:21
  I didn't know him well, but he went on to play professional
• 1:30:24
  baseball. So I suppose cricket for you.
• 1:30:27
  But he, he played in the major leagues for I think like 10
• 1:30:32
  years had. So that's a decent career.
• 1:30:35
  Made a lot of money and the last time I personally ever saw him
• 1:30:38
  was I was actually back in. At home.
• 1:30:42
  And I was playing in an alumni basketball tournament and I was
• 1:30:46
  on a team with him and between games, a bunch of us that are on
• 1:30:50
  the team, We went down to this local bar and we were just
• 1:30:52
  having drinks. And he had not yet made the
• 1:30:55
  major leagues. He was in the minor leagues.
• 1:30:57
  And I said, hey, so you think you're ever going to get called
• 1:31:00
  up to the show? And he said, you know, if it was
• 1:31:04
  going to happen, it would have happened by now.
• 1:31:06
  It's never going to happen. And then.
• 1:31:11
  Three months later, he got called up.
• 1:31:13
  Yeah. And from what I understand from
• 1:31:18
  friends of his that I'm friends with, as soon as he got called
• 1:31:21
  up to the show, he cut off all ties with everybody.
• 1:31:26
  Wow. And I don't know if that's a
• 1:31:32
  defense mechanism or, you know, I don't want people, you know,
• 1:31:36
  trying to use me or get something from me.
• 1:31:41
  But I I, I like to think, you know when my podcast empire
• 1:31:44
  grows and I become this huge guy that I will still look at my
• 1:31:50
  lessers and still treat them with respect like I should
• 1:31:53
  supposed to be funny, you know, my lessers.
• 1:31:55
  But no, I I, I I think that I I like to think that nothing would
• 1:32:00
  change about me as far as like the people I've known for long
• 1:32:03
  periods of time. That I would be the same with
• 1:32:05
  them as I've always been and. I understand that fame and money
• 1:32:12
  and things like that can change people and I think honestly it's
• 1:32:15
  probably hard for it not to. And there's also, you see people
• 1:32:20
  like Hammer. Hammer was somebody who got, you
• 1:32:23
  know, MC Hammer don't, can't touch this.
• 1:32:25
  Too legit to quit. He had this huge entourage and
• 1:32:31
  he pissed through 10s if not hundreds of millions of dollars
• 1:32:35
  and ended up broke because he took care of everybody.
• 1:32:39
  And I think there's a difference.
• 1:32:41
  You don't have to take care of your friends, But if they're
• 1:32:44
  your friends, and they were your friends when you were nobody,
• 1:32:48
  they should still be your friends when you're somebody.
• 1:32:51
  And I think finding that that middle ground of still being
• 1:32:56
  just Christian and not being, you know, the Christian, if you
• 1:33:03
  will. Yeah, I mean, I thought about
• 1:33:06
  this a lot, like. Because people have asked
• 1:33:09
  before, like, you know, the the, the thing that people often say
• 1:33:14
  is like, oh, don't forget us when you get to the top.
• 1:33:16
  And I'm like, shit, all right, if if that ever happens, but
• 1:33:19
  let's just say it just for argument's sake, I'm still going
• 1:33:23
  to be that kid who grew up in like northwest London in the
• 1:33:26
  suburbs. You know, like who?
• 1:33:29
  You know, like the boiler would break down every every month or
• 1:33:32
  every Christmas or whatever the fuck and or every winter.
• 1:33:34
  Sorry. And you know that that's what I
• 1:33:36
  grew up with and I loved it. And you know, I'm, I'm very
• 1:33:39
  proud of that upbringing. And I can't imagine changing
• 1:33:45
  just because of what? Because of having more money,
• 1:33:47
  because of having like career. Like for example, like acting.
• 1:33:51
  I I couldn't care less about being famous or you know any of
• 1:33:55
  that shit. Who cares?
• 1:33:56
  It doesn't. It doesn't really mean anything
• 1:33:58
  anymore. Like I've said this before in
• 1:34:00
  the past, that like. Once Upon a time, a hundreds of
• 1:34:02
  years ago, you were famous. But if you had invented
• 1:34:04
  something that changed mankind, that it was more like fame, was
• 1:34:09
  more like admiration and respect, Wow, this person has
• 1:34:13
  changed humanity as we know it. Or they've given something so
• 1:34:17
  amazing to us, right? And then over time, you know,
• 1:34:20
  the entertainment industry boomed.
• 1:34:22
  And then suddenly it became more about like.
• 1:34:25
  Just just glorifying a particular lifestyle.
• 1:34:28
  Or, you know, and I don't think that that's all bad necessarily,
• 1:34:32
  but there are a lot of negative elements to it.
• 1:34:36
  But the problem is, somewhere down the line it became about
• 1:34:39
  like, oh, if you're a celebrity or famous, you're somehow better
• 1:34:42
  than the average person. And you know, the press are
• 1:34:45
  guilty of, of making this distinction.
• 1:34:47
  You hear it sometimes. They're like, oh, what do you
• 1:34:49
  think of, like, normal people, everyday people.
• 1:34:52
  And it's like they were just people, you know?
• 1:34:55
  Like and I, I always pay attention, very close attention
• 1:34:57
  to people who become famous and then years later they're not
• 1:35:01
  famous anymore and like how they act and how people treat them,
• 1:35:04
  etc. Because you have you have Big
• 1:35:06
  Brother there, right? I mean, I think Big Brother
• 1:35:08
  actually came from the UK, right?
• 1:35:11
  Yeah, unfortunately. Sorry about that.
• 1:35:13
  That's right. I was.
• 1:35:14
  I was. Oh, yeah.
• 1:35:15
  Yeah. I'll take, I'll take ownership
• 1:35:16
  for that. Yeah, great.
• 1:35:17
  Yeah. So I was almost on Big Brother a
• 1:35:20
  couple times. So the US version obviously.
• 1:35:23
  Why? I just think it would be fun.
• 1:35:27
  Yeah. And I I I think that the the
• 1:35:32
  concept of it and it's different in the US, the the show is
• 1:35:35
  different because it doesn't have like the public voting
• 1:35:37
  people off and stuff. It's it's done differently here.
• 1:35:40
  But when I was in the interview process and I I made it out of
• 1:35:45
  like the first couple rounds and I was actually talking to them
• 1:35:47
  in person and I was in this hotel room and they interviewed
• 1:35:51
  me for it was about two hours, 2 1/2 hours.
• 1:35:54
  And just, you know, pepper me with questions and stuff.
• 1:35:56
  Spanish Inquisition. Fucking.
• 1:35:58
  And I I think the reason more than anything else that I did
• 1:36:02
  not get on the show is I disrespected them.
• 1:36:06
  And I didn't mean to. But when you go into an
• 1:36:10
  interview like that for a show like Big Brother or Survivor or
• 1:36:15
  something, it's the opposite of what you're doing when you're in
• 1:36:19
  an interview for a job. Because when you are.
• 1:36:23
  Interviewing for a job. You want them to like you.
• 1:36:26
  You want them to want to hire you because of your skills.
• 1:36:30
  When you're interviewing for Big Brother, for example, you want
• 1:36:34
  them to think you're interesting.
• 1:36:36
  You want them to remember you. It doesn't matter if it's good
• 1:36:39
  or bad, they you want them to remember you.
• 1:36:41
  But number one, they said I had the worst answer they've ever
• 1:36:45
  had to any question they've ever asked.
• 1:36:48
  And I'll tell you what that one was at the time I was. 4445, And
• 1:36:56
  you know, I'm, I was married, I had kids.
• 1:36:58
  And they said, well, what are you going to do on this show
• 1:37:04
  when these attractive young women are interested in you?
• 1:37:09
  And I said, well, look at me, I'm not really that concerned
• 1:37:11
  about it. I think I can handle that.
• 1:37:13
  And they said, would you ever cheat on your wife?
• 1:37:16
  And I said, no, I never, I wouldn't.
• 1:37:17
  But that really seems like a lot of work.
• 1:37:22
  And they said, what? Yeah, if you're in a
• 1:37:26
  relationship, that's a lot of work.
• 1:37:28
  If you're in two relationships, that's double the work.
• 1:37:31
  And you got to hide this one from this one and you got to
• 1:37:33
  keep this one super happy because otherwise she'll tell
• 1:37:35
  this one that seems like a lot. No, no, it's just not, dude.
• 1:37:38
  Like that is the worst thing we've ever heard to that
• 1:37:41
  question. But the last question that they
• 1:37:43
  gave me, and I think the reason I didn't get on the show is they
• 1:37:47
  said, what are you going to do when Big Brother makes you
• 1:37:51
  famous? And I said slow down.
• 1:37:56
  This is Big Brother 16, You're not Survivor Nobody.
• 1:38:00
  Watches this show. You said that?
• 1:38:03
  Yeah. Oh my God.
• 1:38:06
  I'm sure they remembered it. So I mean on the one hand you
• 1:38:09
  know I I I served the purpose I was trying to do with that
• 1:38:12
  answer. But I'm not wrong.
• 1:38:13
  I mean it's it's a show that gets.
• 1:38:17
  Million and a half viewers. What did they look?
• 1:38:19
  What did they look like when you said that?
• 1:38:20
  Or what was their facial expressions looking like?
• 1:38:24
  Is a slack jawed like I cannot believe they just said that.
• 1:38:28
  Because afterwards, with it, were they like, yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:32
  So we'll get back to you in like 2 weeks.
• 1:38:37
  They just kind of like. There's two of them.
• 1:38:39
  They one of them looked at and they looked at each other and
• 1:38:43
  yeah that's this guy. Yeah he he disrespected our
• 1:38:47
  franchise and and because there is tears for reality television
• 1:38:52
  it it's like Survivor is a much bigger show than Big Brother is
• 1:38:58
  here. So it was and they they asked OK
• 1:39:02
  if you had a choice of going on this show or this show or this
• 1:39:05
  show, which one would you go on? Well, not yours, because this is
• 1:39:11
  like my last choice. I'd go on it because I think it
• 1:39:14
  would be fun, but if I had a choice between this and doing
• 1:39:16
  this other one, I'd do this other one.
• 1:39:19
  So yeah, and it's funny as well, like I've had people in the past
• 1:39:23
  said ago, why don't you Cuz I've had opportunities to go on
• 1:39:26
  television, reality TV, but I don't rate it.
• 1:39:29
  I don't think it's like worth it.
• 1:39:34
  And of course, people have disagreed me.
• 1:39:35
  They're like, yeah, but you could use that.
• 1:39:37
  You can use that fame and, like, try and leverage it, I suppose.
• 1:39:42
  And to a degree, they're right. But here's the thing.
• 1:39:46
  That's your first real introduction to the world.
• 1:39:51
  Yeah, What you've done before. Like, no one really cares.
• 1:39:53
  Like, do you know what? I'm saying like, unless you said
• 1:39:56
  the wrong thing on Twitter 10 years ago, yeah.
• 1:39:58
  Absolutely, but like. Fundamentally, like, that's
• 1:40:01
  really your introduction. Like, for example, when an actor
• 1:40:04
  like makes it after many years of of like, relative obscurity,
• 1:40:08
  they always say like overnight success.
• 1:40:10
  And they don't talk about the fact that the guys will go
• 1:40:13
  whatever has been, you know, trying to push it for like 15
• 1:40:16
  years. Like, I'm sure if I made it in
• 1:40:18
  the next year or so, they wouldn't ignore the fact that
• 1:40:20
  I've been acting since 2019. It'd be like, oh wow, this
• 1:40:23
  nobody has now made it out of nowhere.
• 1:40:27
  And it's like, yeah, OK, but that's not really how it is, is
• 1:40:29
  it? And I feel with reality TV,
• 1:40:33
  they're trying to tell stories that aren't true.
• 1:40:35
  But if you'd have gone on that show.
• 1:40:37
  It wouldn't have been, oh, here's Matthew.
• 1:40:39
  He does this, this, this, this and this.
• 1:40:40
  It would be like, they'd make a story for you, like a narrative
• 1:40:44
  that you've got to play up to. And it's like, oh, well, creepy
• 1:40:47
  Matthew be checking out these young women.
• 1:40:50
  Like, let's see, let's, let's put some, I don't know, traps in
• 1:40:54
  place to see if he falls for them, The honey traps that I
• 1:40:57
  don't know, whatever, like that. That's the sort of shit they
• 1:40:59
  would do because they're awful. The reality TV industry, they're
• 1:41:02
  absolutely awful. But you know, it's a business,
• 1:41:06
  it's entertainment. They're trying to.
• 1:41:08
  They've got their objectives, you have yours.
• 1:41:10
  And when I look at it like that, it's a no brainer for myself to
• 1:41:15
  not go on a show like that because it's like that's not
• 1:41:17
  going to help me achieve my goals.
• 1:41:19
  Like everything I do is based on reputation and building a brand.
• 1:41:23
  If I suddenly then go on a show like that, I might as well just
• 1:41:26
  shoot myself in the foot and just forget about the last.
• 1:41:29
  However many years of work of trying to say like, oh, this is
• 1:41:31
  what I do and this is what I do, cuz people just be like, yeah,
• 1:41:34
  that's great that you're trying to do this thing now, but like
• 1:41:37
  what about that stupid shit you did and Big Brother?
• 1:41:40
  Like, you know, that's what people gonna think about.
• 1:41:42
  Have you ever been recognized? No, of course not.
• 1:41:48
  It's weird. It's weird when.
• 1:41:50
  Have you been recognized? Yeah.
• 1:41:52
  I mean not, not often, and not in a while, but sometimes I've
• 1:41:56
  had people come up to me like the grocery store and say did.
• 1:41:59
  Did I see you at the funny bone or something like that?
• 1:42:02
  Oh, for comedy, right? Yeah.
• 1:42:05
  Yeah, and it happened a couple times in comedy clubs.
• 1:42:08
  Like when I was not performing, when I just happened to be
• 1:42:10
  there, I. Was gonna say it'd be all good
• 1:42:12
  if you on stage like wait, don't I know you?
• 1:42:14
  Yeah. Did I?
• 1:42:16
  Did I see you? Yeah, I was on stage 20 minutes
• 1:42:18
  ago. Not that memorable.
• 1:42:21
  I was thinking more like when you were actually on stage
• 1:42:23
  performing your set and so was like, wait, don't I know you
• 1:42:27
  like, shut up. Yeah that'd be scary.
• 1:42:30
  But let's say I I'm not a good example.
• 1:42:35
  Let's say one of your one of your good mates, one of your
• 1:42:37
  good blokes is a producer or gets a job as a producer and
• 1:42:45
  they they can't, they can't find somebody for not, not a not a
• 1:42:48
  starring role, but a pivotal role, a key role you know a Co
• 1:42:52
  starring role for. I want to say East Enders.
• 1:42:55
  I don't know. I'm.
• 1:42:56
  I'm just trying to throw out any kind of like British shit.
• 1:42:58
  I know. But something that has a a role
• 1:43:03
  that would be recurring and it's a shortcut because it's not
• 1:43:05
  something that you went in and did.
• 1:43:07
  It was, hey, I know this guy. He'd be perfect for it.
• 1:43:11
  You take that, right? Yeah, as long as they kill off
• 1:43:14
  my character. Because it's East Enders.
• 1:43:18
  Yeah, yeah. No, that's different though.
• 1:43:20
  It's so popular is different. Because it's still an
• 1:43:23
  opportunity to act, you know? And the thing about soap operas
• 1:43:27
  is that some of them like, if we're talking like those old
• 1:43:30
  classic, like Spanish ones that are over the top and silly and.
• 1:43:33
  Telenovelas. Yeah, like, but they're supposed
• 1:43:35
  to be you know that's that's what they are and they still
• 1:43:38
  have a core audience people that love that you know and they
• 1:43:41
  cater to that audience. Soap proper is I'm not against
• 1:43:45
  them. You know I I recently sent a
• 1:43:46
  SELF tape in to be on Coronation Street.
• 1:43:50
  I've heard of it. I've never seen it.
• 1:43:52
  I get off of it a lot. It's basically center north.
• 1:43:54
  And yeah, absolutely. And I've seen, I've watched all,
• 1:43:59
  all of the soap operas here in the UK at some point or another
• 1:44:03
  in my life, and they've all offered something good at some
• 1:44:05
  point or another. They're all so epically,
• 1:44:08
  tragically bad as well. I've seen some absolutely
• 1:44:11
  abysmal acting where I'm like, wow, I can't believe this made
• 1:44:13
  it onto television, like. Jesus, even today, you still see
• 1:44:17
  that today? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:18
  Yeah, but then but that's the thing.
• 1:44:20
  It's it's back and forth it's. You can argue it's directors.
• 1:44:23
  You can argue it's bad acting you.
• 1:44:24
  There's a lot of arguments you can make an opportunity like
• 1:44:28
  that. I would for sure not turn down
• 1:44:30
  because it's acting, you know? And I would make the best of it
• 1:44:33
  and I would see what I could do with it because I love acting,
• 1:44:38
  reality television and and like do all these like silly shows
• 1:44:42
  that that's not going to help me with my acting career.
• 1:44:45
  That's just going to make a tip. I'm going to make a tip myself.
• 1:44:48
  It'd be like, what idiot you know and that's it.
• 1:44:51
  That's. The I was just the reason I was
• 1:44:53
  asking is because it's kind of like it's a shortcut in a way.
• 1:44:56
  You're right, you it will set you up.
• 1:44:59
  You'll get a little bit of like 5 minutes of fame that maybe you
• 1:45:02
  can use the leverage to other things.
• 1:45:04
  However crucial point, the way people perceive you is going to
• 1:45:09
  be completely that's it. You know, unless you can do
• 1:45:13
  something that completely breaks out to the extent where you
• 1:45:18
  surpass it like for example. Harry Styles is this huge,
• 1:45:22
  massive musician right next to no one really remembers the fact
• 1:45:26
  that he was on Britain's or sorry, X Factor.
• 1:45:30
  Yeah, a lot of UK people will remember that, but a lot of
• 1:45:32
  people won't. They'll just be like, oh,
• 1:45:33
  there's Harry Styles, the singer.
• 1:45:36
  Is is a talent? I know it kind of is reality,
• 1:45:39
  but is that really the same thing like?
• 1:45:42
  I'd say so. I mean cuz.
• 1:45:44
  Isn't Britain's Got Talent X Factor?
• 1:45:46
  Yeah well they have like their talent shows you know like
• 1:45:48
  you've got American Idol. Like I get what you're saying
• 1:45:52
  but yeah don't don't do they're the those television shows and
• 1:45:56
  you quite you've worked in television you know how it is
• 1:45:58
  that it's. Oh, no, I actually, I know
• 1:45:59
  somebody who's a professional musician who was on.
• 1:46:03
  Backing band that was on America's Got Talent and he said
• 1:46:06
  it was one of the most soul crushing things he's ever been
• 1:46:09
  involved in. And this is a guy who has toured
• 1:46:14
  with Lenny Kravitz and so, I mean, he's not, you know,
• 1:46:18
  somebody that is desperate for opportunity, I mean as a
• 1:46:21
  musician, unless you're like in a key band.
• 1:46:23
  But he just said it was so soul crushing.
• 1:46:25
  What did he find soul crushing about it?
• 1:46:27
  Because it's interesting that. The guy who's essentially like
• 1:46:30
  a, you know, part of regular band session player, I would
• 1:46:33
  imagine as well, is taking part in that.
• 1:46:35
  I guess it was a good gig, like money wise he did it.
• 1:46:38
  Maybe it's a favor to someone else.
• 1:46:40
  I think that's what it was. I think it was kind of they got
• 1:46:43
  into a spot and they needed somebody to fill a spot on a
• 1:46:46
  band, you know, a backing band. But it's just a thing where, you
• 1:46:52
  know, and I agree, it is a television show and it is edited
• 1:46:55
  and it's not. It doesn't happen exactly how it
• 1:46:59
  is portrayed to happen, but when I look at a show, whether it be
• 1:47:04
  a singing show like an idol show or a talent show like America's
• 1:47:07
  Got Talent, there's there's things in those shows where even
• 1:47:13
  though I might not appreciate the the type of music it is, I
• 1:47:17
  can appreciate the talent behind it.
• 1:47:20
  And I I look at it as a Clay Aiken is a perfect example.
• 1:47:24
  You probably have no idea who Clay Aiken is.
• 1:47:27
  I don't say that. Do you know?
• 1:47:28
  He came in second place on American Idol, like 15 years ago
• 1:47:32
  or so. Wow.
• 1:47:33
  OK. Yeah.
• 1:47:34
  And he not my type of music at all, but amazing voice, somebody
• 1:47:39
  super, super talented. And I can and I can do that with
• 1:47:44
  any kind of music. I can listen to music and I can
• 1:47:46
  say I respect the ability, the craft to be able to do this and
• 1:47:52
  I can say, but it's not for me, it's not my cup of tea.
• 1:47:56
  And I'm not a huge country music guy.
• 1:47:59
  There's some country I like. But I saw Garth Brooks in
• 1:48:01
  concert like probably 10 years ago.
• 1:48:04
  Amazing show, probably the best show I've ever seen.
• 1:48:09
  And you can tell that he loves what he's doing.
• 1:48:13
  But when I look at somebody and like one of these shows and I
• 1:48:17
  see them singing, I know that this is something I cannot do.
• 1:48:22
  And. It is.
• 1:48:24
  There are things where I I can't play an instrument, I can't
• 1:48:28
  carry a tune. There are certain things that
• 1:48:30
  are just in, not in my wheelhouse to do.
• 1:48:32
  And I respect people that have the ability to do these things,
• 1:48:36
  even if I don't necessarily like what it is they do with them.
• 1:48:43
  Yeah, I know. I get what you're saying.
• 1:48:44
  I mean, I think it was just being able to respect like the
• 1:48:51
  the different. Abilities and skills and talents
• 1:48:53
  that people have, isn't it? You know, you're always going to
• 1:48:56
  kind of, I think especially if you work in those industries,
• 1:49:00
  you're going to be able to respect that.
• 1:49:01
  But yeah, when I when I look at shows like that, I agree it is
• 1:49:06
  so destroying because it has nothing to do with music or
• 1:49:08
  performance or talent really. It's it's a television show.
• 1:49:12
  It's about making money from people and exploiting people
• 1:49:20
  however you want to look at it, you know?
• 1:49:22
  Yeah, but every TV show is about making money.
• 1:49:25
  Yes, but some shows are more inclined even to help people to
• 1:49:33
  put on like a good performance and everyone's kind of walks
• 1:49:36
  away from it like better off versus we're gonna exploit
• 1:49:42
  people for financial gain or for.
• 1:49:47
  I don't know for hilarity purposes and here's the problem
• 1:49:49
  with that is it sometimes it it can ruin people's lives it can
• 1:49:56
  lead to like really serious situations down the road and I I
• 1:50:01
  always looked at like talent shows like X Factor and
• 1:50:04
  Britain's Got Talent and stuff as like modern day circus I you
• 1:50:07
  know and but not not in in any positive way it's it's.
• 1:50:11
  The people are the elephants. Yeah, and it is cruel.
• 1:50:15
  I honestly think it's cruel and I was quite happy when it ended
• 1:50:20
  in the UK. I was like, yeah, finally, you
• 1:50:22
  know, maybe it won't have such a strong kind of grab hold on the
• 1:50:28
  music industry, which is another element to it as well.
• 1:50:30
  It's like a hold it has and how it's sort of just corporately
• 1:50:34
  manufactured and there's just no like.
• 1:50:38
  None of the are and and the and the soul of music and what music
• 1:50:41
  is at its very best. And don't get me wrong, the
• 1:50:43
  music industry at large has a lot of that too.
• 1:50:47
  I mean, you know, but at the same time, like, there are a lot
• 1:50:50
  of amazing musicians out there that just doing that thing, as
• 1:50:52
  you said. Like there's country musicians,
• 1:50:54
  there's people and there's so many indie musicians coming
• 1:50:57
  through right now. They're doing their own thing
• 1:50:58
  and then they're nailing and then they're owning it, doing it
• 1:51:01
  their way. And it's beautiful to see and I
• 1:51:03
  think with creative endeavors. At large, when you're doing it
• 1:51:08
  your way, in the way that you, that works for you, it's
• 1:51:13
  liberating. It truly is, and it will never
• 1:51:17
  not be. But you know.
• 1:51:19
  I'm gonna feel bad now about, you know, watching any kind of
• 1:51:22
  reality TV. That's that's what you can put
• 1:51:25
  on. What did I, what did I
• 1:51:26
  accomplish today? I made Matt feel really, really
• 1:51:29
  shitty about the fact that he watches reality television.
• 1:51:32
  No, listen that. Reality T I'm not saying all
• 1:51:35
  reality TV is bad, right? I'm saying that when it's used
• 1:51:40
  to exploit people, it is, you know, because there are plenty
• 1:51:43
  of examples. OK, You take Big Brother as an
• 1:51:45
  example, right? Those people willingly go in
• 1:51:48
  there. Now, people, not everyone that
• 1:51:51
  people that go in there will be very smart.
• 1:51:53
  Other people will be not very smart.
• 1:51:55
  And so the smart ones will, you know.
• 1:51:58
  Maybe be acting or working around, you know, what's being
• 1:52:01
  told to them. They know what's going on.
• 1:52:02
  They know what's up. Other people will go on that
• 1:52:04
  show and not know and and will be manipulated and exploited.
• 1:52:08
  And you know, it might be embarrassing for them, it might
• 1:52:11
  be quite difficult or or frustrating or or whatever.
• 1:52:14
  But at least they can kind of walk away from it.
• 1:52:16
  Like knowing that, you know, their life is not necessarily
• 1:52:20
  ruined forever. You know when when you've got
• 1:52:23
  like one of these snippet clips from like.
• 1:52:26
  One of these talent shows where you've got someone like Simon
• 1:52:28
  Cowell going like, oh, you're useless, you're terrible.
• 1:52:30
  Like, I I I wouldn't, you know, pick you.
• 1:52:34
  If you're the last person on boat, on the boat in the world
• 1:52:37
  with and the world was fond of the piss, like, I still wouldn't
• 1:52:40
  choose you. It's like, come on, like, how do
• 1:52:43
  you do you know what I'm saying? Like you'll always be remembered
• 1:52:46
  for that, you know? And I, I think about those
• 1:52:48
  people. I'm like, that's a human being,
• 1:52:51
  that's a real person with thoughts and feelings and dreams
• 1:52:53
  and you've just turned around and said you're hopeless.
• 1:52:56
  One one person on that I know of, and it probably has happened
• 1:53:01
  more than once worldwide, but there was a reality show.
• 1:53:04
  This was probably back in 2002, 2003.
• 1:53:09
  They got voted off and they basically immediately killed
• 1:53:14
  themselves. Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
• 1:53:16
  Yeah. And.
• 1:53:17
  This is, this is the side I was trying to imply without saying
• 1:53:20
  it, but yeah, this is. And there's definitely like some
• 1:53:24
  mental stuff. And I think a lot of it is not
• 1:53:27
  just the production part of it, but it is the public at large as
• 1:53:33
  well. Because you know the the
• 1:53:35
  Internet and I love the Internet.
• 1:53:37
  This would not be possible without the Internet.
• 1:53:39
  I, you know, it is a, it can be a force for incredible good.
• 1:53:45
  It also is a great. Porn delivery mechanism.
• 1:53:49
  There's a lot of great things about the Internet, but it is
• 1:53:52
  also so incredibly toxic because of the anonymity of it.
• 1:53:58
  And you know, if you ever frequent any kind of message
• 1:54:01
  boards about anything, there is a hate group for every person
• 1:54:07
  that's ever existed that's been on the TV show somewhere in the
• 1:54:10
  Internet, and reality shows especially.
• 1:54:16
  People feel a certain amount of ownership of these people
• 1:54:21
  because they happen to be on a show that they watch.
• 1:54:24
  And just having read some of the things that people have said
• 1:54:29
  about people that have been on these shows, it is, it is
• 1:54:33
  amazing and and that is always has always been a thing that's
• 1:54:36
  kind of in the back of my head is if I did this, I am signing
• 1:54:39
  up to have people. Say nasty things about me to get
• 1:54:45
  beat up online, and the worst thing you can probably do is
• 1:54:50
  read your own press, because it's not press.
• 1:54:52
  It's not something that's positive.
• 1:54:54
  It's going to be a lot of stuff that's tearing you down.
• 1:54:56
  The reality is as well as like how seriously you take this shit
• 1:55:00
  If you just realize it's people that you don't care about,
• 1:55:02
  opinions, it doesn't matter. I think I've always looked at it
• 1:55:06
  like if the majority of people hate you and hate what you're
• 1:55:09
  doing and can't stand. Decide if you maybe you're doing
• 1:55:12
  something wrong. Maybe you need to change
• 1:55:13
  something. If most people you know think
• 1:55:17
  you're right, think you're decent, then you probably are.
• 1:55:19
  I think it's always worth taking on board, like constructive
• 1:55:24
  criticism and such. But in those scenarios this is
• 1:55:29
  the next point I want to make is decide.
• 1:55:30
  I think there's this problem of entitlement.
• 1:55:33
  It's like, oh I like you said I own you, I I I deserve XY&X.
• 1:55:39
  An explanation for this, that and the other like, I had it
• 1:55:42
  today. I did a live stream on TikTok,
• 1:55:44
  and I've not done it in a long, long time.
• 1:55:47
  I broke the cardinal rule of never saying never say never.
• 1:55:51
  Well, you know, I said never. And then I'm back on the app
• 1:55:54
  trying to promote myself. But I was on there and I was
• 1:55:58
  just saying, like, oh, I'm going to trial this new thing.
• 1:56:00
  I'm going to, like, be there on Thursdays, try and use it as a
• 1:56:03
  promotional tool, But I'm still going to stick to my Twitch and
• 1:56:05
  my community and all that stuff, right?
• 1:56:08
  Anyway, I'm there. And some of my core communities
• 1:56:11
  there, they've joined me and they're like, oh, this is
• 1:56:13
  interesting, isn't it? We're having fun with it.
• 1:56:15
  But then I was reminded of, like, some of the reason why I I
• 1:56:18
  didn't really always enjoy being on TikTok because there was this
• 1:56:21
  like, entitlement. I'll give you an example.
• 1:56:24
  So every now and again, I'll get a question like, oh, you're an
• 1:56:27
  actor, okay. So anything you've been in that,
• 1:56:31
  I would know. And that's a very common
• 1:56:32
  question if you're an actor. Honestly, I would have asked
• 1:56:35
  that. Yeah, and I expect it and it's
• 1:56:38
  fine. Sometimes I just answer
• 1:56:39
  straight, sometimes I have a bit of fun with it, whatever.
• 1:56:43
  And you know, I've got quite a lot of acting credits.
• 1:56:46
  So and I don't, you know, the stream wasn't like, if it was a
• 1:56:51
  stream about like I'm just gonna sit here and talk about my
• 1:56:53
  acting career, then fine, I'll go through every single thing
• 1:56:55
  I've done. But you know, it's like these
• 1:56:57
  live streams are very quick, you know, and I'm trying to cover a
• 1:57:00
  lot of different things. So maybe I don't wanna go
• 1:57:02
  through all of it. And so I just said, like, oh,
• 1:57:05
  hey, well, listen, if you want to see what I've done, go on my
• 1:57:07
  website. Here's a link.
• 1:57:08
  Christian reeve.com/acting and you can find all my credits
• 1:57:12
  there. Have a little look, see what you
• 1:57:13
  think. And this person immediately was
• 1:57:15
  just like, Oh well, if you want me to be a fan of yours, like,
• 1:57:19
  you should tell me like, what have you been in?
• 1:57:21
  And one of my mods was just like, oh, well, you know, he's
• 1:57:23
  been in feature films and stuff and she's like, which, which
• 1:57:26
  feature films, right? And I just said politely, I was
• 1:57:30
  like, listen, you show me respect and you're polite.
• 1:57:34
  And I'll go all that. I'll I'll, you know, roll out
• 1:57:37
  Red Kalpy for you. I'm more than happy to do that
• 1:57:39
  right. If you don't show me that level
• 1:57:41
  of respect and politeness, I'm not going to give you anything,
• 1:57:45
  you know? And they're like, oh, well, I
• 1:57:46
  won't be your fan if you don't. I'm like, I don't care, like it
• 1:57:50
  doesn't like, I'm sorry, but like this whole idea that you
• 1:57:54
  owe people something is just bullshit.
• 1:57:57
  Like, I don't know where that. I think that's just a
• 1:57:58
  generational thing, maybe, I don't know.
• 1:58:01
  I think. I don't think so.
• 1:58:02
  Because you you see it with people my age or older as well,
• 1:58:07
  especially when it comes to legacy properties.
• 1:58:11
  OK, current example is Indiana Jones.
• 1:58:17
  Yeah, the new Indiana Jones. You know, you owe me a better
• 1:58:22
  movie than you gave me. The same thing with Star Wars.
• 1:58:27
  There's this feeling that, you know, these are characters that
• 1:58:32
  movies, toys that people grew up with and they they feel that,
• 1:58:38
  you know, they are owed something in that meshes with
• 1:58:42
  how they thought it was supposed to go.
• 1:58:47
  I've got very mixed feelings about this because I do
• 1:58:49
  understand it is upsetting when someone, a new production takes
• 1:58:53
  over an existing property and completely changes what it was
• 1:58:57
  originally about. And like it sucks to see that.
• 1:58:59
  I understand that. And if you're a fat hardcore fan
• 1:59:01
  of something, I understand how upsetting that would be.
• 1:59:04
  However, you, you hit the nail on the head there, like if you
• 1:59:09
  grew up with Star Wars in the 70s and 80s, right?
• 1:59:12
  And then you expected, like, say, the prequels to be exactly
• 1:59:15
  the same as those. Then you're kidding yourself,
• 1:59:17
  cuz it's a different era, it's a different time, it's a different
• 1:59:20
  production entirely. Of course it's gonna be
• 1:59:23
  different. And of course when the the most
• 1:59:25
  newest films came out, you know, everyone lost their fucking
• 1:59:28
  marvels over there and it's like it's never gonna be exactly what
• 1:59:33
  you want because you a, you can't please everyone.
• 1:59:36
  B. Making movies, making
• 1:59:40
  productions, any kind of creative thing, It's never going
• 1:59:44
  to be if it's being done properly, It's never going to be
• 1:59:48
  about catering to what the fans want, you know.
• 1:59:51
  But you see this sometimes in in the, in the book industry like,
• 1:59:54
  you know, like, oh, I wish, like the books they wrote were like
• 1:59:58
  earlier in their career and it's like, but you got a change of
• 2:00:01
  the times, you know, that was a moment in time.
• 2:00:04
  We did that thing. You move on.
• 2:00:06
  You know you don't want to rehash like living in your your
• 2:00:10
  glory years. Keep doing the same thing over
• 2:00:12
  and over and over again, because you'll get resent.
• 2:00:14
  People will resent you for that. Yeah, why can't they change?
• 2:00:17
  Yeah, I think it's just the end of the day.
• 2:00:19
  Some people just have a hard time accepting that, like
• 2:00:22
  everything has a beginning and end and that change is
• 2:00:25
  inevitable and you have to accept it.
• 2:00:28
  I appreciate that it happened, but don't sit and obsess and
• 2:00:31
  live in this like, oh, it has to be the way it was or, you know,
• 2:00:35
  we got to boycott this shit we got, you know, because not
• 2:00:37
  everything comes down to that. No, everything is sometimes a
• 2:00:41
  movie, just a movie. Now don't get me wrong, I think
• 2:00:44
  there are massive examples of where that's not the case.
• 2:00:48
  And I will agree, like sometimes people are right on the money
• 2:00:52
  when it comes to. Things are not written well and
• 2:00:56
  they don't take into account anything.
• 2:00:58
  For example, I think Game of Thrones is the best example.
• 2:01:01
  I've spoken about it many times on the show before.
• 2:01:03
  The problem with that was that it was lazy writing at the very
• 2:01:06
  end. Well, they ran out of source
• 2:01:08
  material, so. Here's the thing.
• 2:01:12
  They had the original author of the books on hand.
• 2:01:15
  They were offered two more seasons with HBO.
• 2:01:17
  More than happy, they probably would have given them more.
• 2:01:20
  And you know, that would have been more than enough time to
• 2:01:23
  work something out, extend it over the actors.
• 2:01:26
  Here's the thing, the actors wanted it to be 10 season as
• 2:01:29
  well, but the directors were like, Nah, fuck you guys, we
• 2:01:32
  want this Star Wars trilogy that we're doing, which would have
• 2:01:35
  been so low and. Is not going to happen.
• 2:01:37
  Yeah, they got so low, but it was a flop and then they just
• 2:01:40
  didn't get it. And yeah, they decided to be
• 2:01:44
  lazy and just take the money and just make something which and
• 2:01:48
  look. I understand they did something
• 2:01:51
  and you can make an argument. While this was their creative
• 2:01:53
  vision, fair enough. But like a lot of the decisions
• 2:01:56
  they made were not based in like logical storytelling.
• 2:02:01
  It was just like a oh, let's just do this for shock value,
• 2:02:04
  let's just do this. Fuck this.
• 2:02:05
  It's like it's like in the wrestling industry when you do
• 2:02:07
  like hot shot booking and you just one week, you just book an
• 2:02:10
  angle which is a bit crazy and makes no sense and you you get a
• 2:02:15
  few ratings and it's like, yeah, great, but what about next week?
• 2:02:18
  And it's like, Oh well, we didn't think of that.
• 2:02:20
  And it's like, Oh well, that's the end of our fucking show
• 2:02:23
  then, isn't it? It's like you have to think
• 2:02:25
  ahead, you know, if it's a story, it has to be 3 parts.
• 2:02:28
  It has to have a beginning, a middle and an end.
• 2:02:31
  And the end needs to be something that if it's a good
• 2:02:35
  story, you can look back throughout the course of the
• 2:02:37
  story and be like, oh, there was foreshadowing, there was hints
• 2:02:40
  at this, Yeah. And This is why they often say
• 2:02:42
  that if you're going to write a story, you should start from the
• 2:02:44
  end and work your way backwards. With Game of Thrones, they
• 2:02:48
  didn't do that. They built up like 5 to 6
• 2:02:51
  really, really solid seasons, built up a lot of characters.
• 2:02:53
  And then just in the last couple of seasons was just like, fuck
• 2:02:56
  that and just, you know, And then it just very easily became
• 2:03:00
  about like, oh, this is just clearly a cash grab.
• 2:03:02
  This is about money. This is not about putting
• 2:03:05
  something creative out there that people can enjoy.
• 2:03:07
  And that that is an instance where I would agree with the
• 2:03:10
  fans, like, yeah, this is just unacceptable.
• 2:03:12
  That's how I felt about LOST. An interesting one, yeah.
• 2:03:16
  Because lost, I thought. In.
• 2:03:17
  I got into lost. Like when it was in its third
• 2:03:20
  season. Yeah, I think many of us, many
• 2:03:23
  of us like kind of got suckered in in that in that period.
• 2:03:26
  It was exciting. And you know, binge through the
• 2:03:29
  1st 2 1/2 seasons, got into that third season, then got into the
• 2:03:32
  week to week. And then I I remember what when
• 2:03:36
  I got to the point where I was watching it on a week to week
• 2:03:38
  basis and I I remember where the show jumped the shark for me,
• 2:03:43
  where I actually turned to my wife and said.
• 2:03:46
  What the fuck is that? And that was the frozen donkey
• 2:03:50
  wheel. When they turned the frozen
• 2:03:52
  donkey wheel, when I think it was Ben and somebody else fell
• 2:03:55
  down the hole into the frozen donkey wheel.
• 2:03:57
  And then they they they turned it and it unstuck the island and
• 2:04:01
  it started bopping around in time and all this other stuff
• 2:04:03
  and it was just and then when they go to the conclusion of it,
• 2:04:09
  in the conclusion. Okay.
• 2:04:10
  This is what this meant. Then they're trying to, you
• 2:04:12
  know, solve or explain what some of these mysteries are.
• 2:04:15
  And the explanations they give don't match with the stuff that
• 2:04:20
  you saw in the first several seasons of the show.
• 2:04:24
  And that was a show that really kind of hit the the burgeoning
• 2:04:29
  of the Internet, with the Internet kind of coming up and
• 2:04:32
  message boards and people having all these fan theories and.
• 2:04:35
  It was the first show probably that was really enhanced by the
• 2:04:39
  Internet as far as the fan base. And I think those are the people
• 2:04:43
  that they they let down. But it's now I'm the entitled
• 2:04:47
  one. I was, I thought I was entitled
• 2:04:49
  to the show. Well, see, again, I would argue
• 2:04:55
  the same thing. It's illogical.
• 2:04:59
  Let's look at this for a second. Lost was a survival show.
• 2:05:02
  You weren't really told much, you were just told OK.
• 2:05:05
  These people, they were on a flight.
• 2:05:08
  It crashes. They've all got different
• 2:05:10
  stories. We're going to do this unique
• 2:05:11
  type of storytelling where each episode focuses on a specific
• 2:05:15
  character or a series of characters.
• 2:05:17
  Great, you know, device. You can do a lot with that.
• 2:05:20
  Lots of flashbacks. So you can kind of mix and match
• 2:05:23
  and do different, tell different types of stories, give
• 2:05:25
  background to things great and those first like two to three
• 2:05:28
  seasons. I'm right there with you, buddy.
• 2:05:30
  Like, I loved it. I thought it was, oh, why are
• 2:05:31
  they going to go next for this? Or who's this mysterious guy?
• 2:05:33
  What's going to happen with this?
• 2:05:34
  What's the Dharma Initiative, all this, like, really
• 2:05:36
  fascinating stuff. And then, you know, I'll be
• 2:05:39
  honest, I dropped off after that stuff.
• 2:05:40
  But I read up on it later and I just thought, like, this is so
• 2:05:44
  lazy and just why they couldn't have gone with the whole
• 2:05:48
  survival thing like it. Because I, as I understand it
• 2:05:51
  was like they were basically they all dead.
• 2:05:53
  It was limbo or some or purgatory or some shit and that
• 2:05:57
  kind of. Essentially the but makes it
• 2:06:04
  it's. Sort of they at one point they
• 2:06:07
  were dead and they and it was that's when they were in
• 2:06:10
  purgatory and they they would went from flashbacks to flash
• 2:06:15
  forwards and then they had jumping around in time where
• 2:06:19
  which half of the group was in the 1980s and then the other
• 2:06:22
  group was in the current time. And see that right there as well
• 2:06:26
  Is is problematic? Not so.
• 2:06:28
  Much because of the fact that, like that as a concept is
• 2:06:32
  unacceptable. It's more the fact that like,
• 2:06:34
  okay, well, this was originally a survival show.
• 2:06:37
  Now it's a time, a show about time travel and existentialism
• 2:06:41
  and stuff. And it's like, well, that would
• 2:06:44
  be fine if it was like Doctor Who where you kind of expect
• 2:06:47
  that. But this is not.
• 2:06:50
  Yeah. But you don't expect it in this.
• 2:06:51
  And it's it's not to say that, oh, you can't have the
• 2:06:53
  unexpected, but it's like, well, which is it?
• 2:06:56
  What, what what is this show? If you established the show as
• 2:06:59
  oh, this is a show about time travel or this is a show about
• 2:07:03
  purgatory or whatever, like you can work with that, but when you
• 2:07:07
  just change it, like to me the IT seems as though Lost was kind
• 2:07:12
  of not planned from the get go. They had an initial idea but
• 2:07:17
  they never had the end go in mind, you know?
• 2:07:20
  And I think it was just like if a show like that kind of
• 2:07:25
  necessitates. Knowing where you're going and
• 2:07:29
  you know you have A, you have Z or Zed for you and then
• 2:07:34
  everything in between you can fill in as long as it makes
• 2:07:36
  sense with all the stuff that happened before and everything
• 2:07:40
  that follows after that has to make sense with that.
• 2:07:42
  But they they kind of had the beginning.
• 2:07:45
  They had a somewhat idea of the end and then they just started
• 2:07:48
  throwing shit at the wall and which is some of its stock and
• 2:07:52
  some of it didn't. That's that's.
• 2:07:54
  But that's the biggest problem when you start doing that
• 2:07:56
  because then you lose all meaning and purpose and it just
• 2:08:01
  becomes impossible to follow and as as a you know and here's the
• 2:08:04
  thing like, and I've used this example before but like if you
• 2:08:08
  have a show like let's say How I Met your mother right.
• 2:08:12
  Hotly contested ending. A lot of people pissed off with
• 2:08:14
  that. They planned it from the get go.
• 2:08:16
  That was all. The way to because they had the
• 2:08:18
  the end stuff done with the kids, yeah.
• 2:08:21
  And that was always the end goal.
• 2:08:22
  And a lot of people argued, oh, it should have just ended with
• 2:08:24
  the the the mother and the son. And I said the Ted and and the
• 2:08:28
  mother. And I agree.
• 2:08:29
  I think that would have been more of a beautiful ending.
• 2:08:31
  But they chose to go with their ending.
• 2:08:33
  And but they at least made it logical.
• 2:08:37
  Excuse me. So for example, one thing that a
• 2:08:40
  lot of people don't like is the fact that they broke up Robin
• 2:08:42
  and Barney. And you know, that sucks.
• 2:08:45
  And I get that right, But at least it made sense.
• 2:08:49
  And at least it was like okay. They they told a story that you
• 2:08:51
  could buy and you're like, okay. This is why this happened.
• 2:08:53
  And while Ted and Robin do not make a good couple.
• 2:08:57
  And I know the argument is, well, you know, in time maybe
• 2:09:01
  things can work better or, you know, maybe it can work out
• 2:09:03
  later on. And that's you can argue all day
• 2:09:05
  about that, but at least it was a tangible story that you can
• 2:09:08
  follow and be like Okay. You can see the signs here and
• 2:09:10
  there. It makes sense.
• 2:09:12
  Fine, right. And then it becomes more about
• 2:09:14
  like. People agreeing versus people
• 2:09:16
  not agreeing over like you know, it's subjective and that's
• 2:09:19
  that's okay. But at least it was planned out.
• 2:09:22
  Lost was just set to fail and they had themselves to blame for
• 2:09:27
  it really to be honest. Anyway, it's such a I feel, I
• 2:09:30
  feel really bad for the fan base, I really do because I
• 2:09:33
  remember the the hyper that I remember how exciting that was.
• 2:09:36
  It was magical. I mean, it was just every new
• 2:09:40
  thing and it and it was. You wanted to see what was
• 2:09:44
  coming next and you you wanted to understand what are these
• 2:09:46
  numbers, what is, what is this hatch in the ground And and it
• 2:09:51
  was, it was and now it's so many things are released in, in
• 2:09:56
  batches where you don't have, well you're waiting a week until
• 2:10:00
  the next show. And honestly we're all kind of
• 2:10:03
  spoiled by that because there are some things like on Apple
• 2:10:06
  TV. And then also on some others,
• 2:10:09
  even streaming services where they release shows weekly as
• 2:10:12
  opposed to dropping the whole season I.
• 2:10:13
  Hate that so much. I want to watch the next
• 2:10:16
  episode, and a lot of times what we will do is okay.
• 2:10:20
  We know that this show is going to have 10 episodes.
• 2:10:23
  We'll wait for the first six episodes to be out before we
• 2:10:26
  start watching it because then we can binge and then we won't
• 2:10:30
  have much time left on the back end until the last episodes come
• 2:10:34
  out. It's it's interesting you
• 2:10:36
  mentioned this as well, because I remember, like when I would go
• 2:10:39
  back and watch old TV shows, I always just get irked by like
• 2:10:42
  the whole oh, why do they have to do the TV recap thing, man,
• 2:10:45
  it's so annoying. But it's like, you need that
• 2:10:48
  because you forget a week passes, you forget the fuck what
• 2:10:51
  happened? Like, I'm watching three
• 2:10:53
  different so I'm watching The Sopranos right now, but I'm also
• 2:10:55
  watching Secret Invasion, the Marvel property, Fear The
• 2:11:00
  Walking Dead, and what was the other thing?
• 2:11:04
  Walking Dead, Dead City, right. So I'm watching all four of
• 2:11:07
  those shows. Sopranos, great.
• 2:11:08
  I can just keep binging it as I please.
• 2:11:10
  Fantastic. The other shows have to wait
• 2:11:14
  weekly. And yeah, I I need that recap
• 2:11:18
  because I'm like, Oh yeah, that happened and that and that.
• 2:11:21
  Okay, I'm up to speed because otherwise I'm like I got like a
• 2:11:24
  it's like when someone asks you to like draw let's say like you
• 2:11:28
  witness the crime. But then it doesn't.
• 2:11:30
  It's not like a day afterwards, It's like a week afterwards.
• 2:11:32
  So you have to like, oh, can you draw a picture of this person?
• 2:11:34
  You know? Well, I think you might have had
• 2:11:37
  a beard and I don't know. Well, maybe was it that you got
• 2:11:41
  like a hazy image? Can't really paint a clear image
• 2:11:44
  of what. Yeah, you can't remember what
• 2:11:47
  happened three days ago, much less a week ago, or if it's a if
• 2:11:49
  it was a season finale and now you're watching the first
• 2:11:52
  episode of the next season. Oh yeah.
• 2:11:54
  Well, that's like 6. I forgot all the stuff.
• 2:11:56
  Yeah, I forgot all the things that happened in in the last
• 2:11:59
  season and all these. And even when I'm binging
• 2:12:03
  things, it'll be like, oh, I totally forgot that this
• 2:12:06
  character was even on this show because they haven't been on it
• 2:12:08
  for the last episode and 1/2. That's, yeah, see, that's
• 2:12:11
  another interesting thing as well.
• 2:12:14
  I feel like sometimes they have to explain that stuff as well,
• 2:12:18
  like if it's an important character, like I've noticed
• 2:12:20
  this in The Sopranos here and then there is like.
• 2:12:23
  You can argue like, Oh well, they're just busy doing other
• 2:12:25
  things. But sometimes, like a particular
• 2:12:29
  person's absence is like conspicuous.
• 2:12:31
  It's like, is that literary a pot device?
• 2:12:34
  And sometimes it's not like there's this character that Tony
• 2:12:38
  has an affair with and he he's having an affair with this woman
• 2:12:45
  and she's also dating one of his capo's, one of Ralphie, Ralphie
• 2:12:50
  the character. And it's obviously, it's a
• 2:12:53
  problematic situation. In the end, it kind of comes to
• 2:12:56
  a good resolution. But then thereafterwards, they
• 2:13:00
  just never mention the relationship again.
• 2:13:03
  Like she just disappears in the show.
• 2:13:05
  And I'm thinking, like, did I miss that?
• 2:13:07
  No. I watched this show intently
• 2:13:08
  like I I would have seen that if there'd been like a major
• 2:13:11
  argument where she was just gone.
• 2:13:13
  I I guess he's just not hooking up with her anymore, I guess.
• 2:13:16
  And because he just got to the end of the season and now going
• 2:13:19
  into Season 5 and I'm like, okay.
• 2:13:21
  Is this your first watch through of it?
• 2:13:22
  Yeah. No spoilers please.
• 2:13:25
  No, I I won't. And I have not watched The
• 2:13:28
  Sopranos and I didn't watch the you.
• 2:13:30
  Have to it. No, no.
• 2:13:32
  I watched it. I've watched it since it was
• 2:13:34
  originally on. I watched it when it was
• 2:13:35
  originally on. I did not watch The Saints of.
• 2:13:38
  Many Saints of Newark, yeah. Yeah, I've not watched that, but
• 2:13:42
  have you ever watched The Wire? I haven't, but I'm thinking I
• 2:13:45
  might go to that next. OK.
• 2:13:47
  The Wire, I think, is five seasons.
• 2:13:51
  How many episodes per season? Eight.
• 2:13:54
  Yes, that's that's not too bad. Maybe I will check it out then.
• 2:13:57
  How long are the episodes? Cuz Surprise is like 55 minutes.
• 2:14:00
  It's like a movie every. Time they're about, yeah,
• 2:14:02
  they're about an hour each. Just about.
• 2:14:04
  But The Wire is awesome. The last season is a little bit
• 2:14:07
  OK, but the show is awesome. You'll watch the first season.
• 2:14:11
  If you watch the first season, you'd be like, Oh my God, this,
• 2:14:13
  this show is great. And then you'll start watching
• 2:14:17
  the second season. And you'll say this is not the
• 2:14:20
  same show at all. It is so completely different.
• 2:14:24
  And you have to give it like 2 episodes before you'll actually
• 2:14:28
  get into it, because each season is told from a slightly
• 2:14:31
  different perspective. And Idris Elba, this is where I
• 2:14:36
  discovered Idris Elba was. He plays Stringer Bell in this
• 2:14:39
  show and he's amazing. He's amazing and I think he's in
• 2:14:43
  the first two or three seasons. But Dwyer is really, really
• 2:14:47
  good. Check it out.
• 2:14:50
  I could talk to you all day about.
• 2:14:51
  Yeah, and we. Didn't talk about anything on my
• 2:14:54
  notes and that that's fine, but I do have something I want you
• 2:14:57
  to say, so we can just really quickly and I.
• 2:15:01
  Actually I got I got a few questions I want to ask you as
• 2:15:03
  well, so but you do your thing first.
• 2:15:05
  First of all, you said that you listened to some of my podcast
• 2:15:08
  and I first I want what your actual opinion is.
• 2:15:11
  So tell me what your actual opinion was from listening to
• 2:15:13
  the podcast. Is it bad that I listened to it
• 2:15:17
  so that I could hear the bit where you're talking about me?
• 2:15:19
  That's. Absolutely understandable.
• 2:15:22
  That's why I kind of put a time code in there, so.
• 2:15:25
  Before that, like I I like the way it was put together.
• 2:15:27
  I was really impressed. The fact that you've got this
• 2:15:29
  many episodes in. I think as we said earlier, it
• 2:15:32
  says a certain thing about a person when they're able to get
• 2:15:35
  to that many episodes and do it for that long.
• 2:15:39
  I like the back and forth between you and your cohost.
• 2:15:42
  It just, I think as well, you know, knowing what I know about
• 2:15:44
  you. With your TV background,
• 2:15:47
  everything else, I was like, you can tell this is a show made by
• 2:15:49
  someone who's worked in production.
• 2:15:51
  It's it's smooth, it flows well, It's a show that if I had the
• 2:15:55
  time, I would definitely sit down and watch.
• 2:15:57
  And I'm not just saying that because Matthew's on my show.
• 2:15:59
  Go check it out. Beta Max Rewind.
• 2:16:01
  It's fantastic show. You got it right this time.
• 2:16:03
  Yeah, I did. Sorry.
• 2:16:04
  I feel that's awful about that. You could drag the end of the
• 2:16:06
  month as well for that. I deserve it.
• 2:16:07
  I deserve it. It's fine.
• 2:16:09
  Fine, so now I'm gonna ask you the same question again.
• 2:16:13
  I want you to. Like.
• 2:16:15
  I I want you to, you know, say, you know, blah blah, blah, blah,
• 2:16:19
  blah. And by the way, my whole thing
• 2:16:20
  is I think that we have our podcast is it's a very
• 2:16:24
  professionally produced, unprofessional podcast, if you
• 2:16:27
  will. But I want you to say kind of
• 2:16:29
  what you said before and then at the end of it I want you to say
• 2:16:32
  the only thing that I really had a problem with is I really wish
• 2:16:37
  that you had a podcast partner who was as funny or as talented
• 2:16:41
  as you, because I think they make your show a lot better.
• 2:16:43
  And that I'm going to play on my show tonight so that he can
• 2:16:47
  listen to that so much for me to.
• 2:16:51
  Remember all, all I can really say is that the Beta Max Rewind
• 2:16:55
  is an excellent, fantastic show and I was hooked.
• 2:16:59
  I was, I was really into it. But then somewhere down the line
• 2:17:04
  there was this other guy on the show.
• 2:17:05
  I don't know some talent has talentless hack that they
• 2:17:09
  brought into the show and I just kind of thought to myself, like,
• 2:17:11
  who is this guy? But what does he bring to the
• 2:17:14
  table? I'm thankful.
• 2:17:17
  You talk about my Co host. Yeah, who's that guy?
• 2:17:22
  Well, what's his problem? I don't know.
• 2:17:24
  Who employed him? Who's in charge of employing
• 2:17:27
  that guy? He should be fired.
• 2:17:29
  Okay, thank you for that. Thank you for that.
• 2:17:31
  I'll cut that up and I'll actually.
• 2:17:32
  That's mean. I feel mean.
• 2:17:34
  I don't like being mean. I did it one time.
• 2:17:36
  I went on this game show podcast one time and I deliberately
• 2:17:40
  played like a character. I thought fuck it, let's just
• 2:17:42
  have some fun with this. And I just felt mean the whole
• 2:17:44
  time. Like I was winning.
• 2:17:45
  It was like a point system thing and I was winning, but I was
• 2:17:47
  just being a Dick about it. I was just like the guy would
• 2:17:52
  basically was like, you have to answer these questions and give
• 2:17:58
  like a. Like it was like kind of like a
• 2:18:00
  would you rather kind of scenario, like how much do I
• 2:18:03
  have to pay you before you would like, I don't know, drink toilet
• 2:18:06
  water or something and I just be like, I just kept going, Nope,
• 2:18:09
  Nope, I'm worth more than that. Keep going, keep going.
• 2:18:11
  And he's like, we do it for 100,000.
• 2:18:13
  I'm like, what about 200,000? He's like, I'm fine and I'm like
• 2:18:18
  great And I just won because of that.
• 2:18:20
  But I was also kind of being honest.
• 2:18:22
  I was like, come on, really? Another guy is going to do this
• 2:18:25
  for £10? Really.
• 2:18:26
  That's all you? Give yourself.
• 2:18:28
  That's all you allow for yourself is £10 for eating a, I
• 2:18:31
  don't know, slice of Peach on the floor that's been mowed on
• 2:18:35
  with like a lawnmower or something.
• 2:18:36
  I don't. Know that doesn't sound too bad.
• 2:18:40
  It's better than the toilet water.
• 2:18:41
  So. I watched Have You ever Seen
• 2:18:43
  Peep Show before? Yes, there's a I was rewatching
• 2:18:46
  it recently and Jeremy and Mark find themselves like BASIC, so
• 2:18:54
  Jeremy has been sleeping with his boss's.
• 2:18:57
  Girlfriend. And he he's locked out of her
• 2:19:01
  flat and so is Mark and they're locked in this like, I don't
• 2:19:05
  know, in between area like the the lobby of this like set of
• 2:19:10
  flats and they can't get out and like they're panicking and Mark
• 2:19:15
  decides, sorry, Jeremy decides to use the last remaining bars
• 2:19:19
  of their phone to call and get pizza delivered.
• 2:19:23
  But of course they can't get out so then they have to like.
• 2:19:27
  And bear in mind, he's had, he needed to have a pee.
• 2:19:30
  They had a conversation about where he could pee.
• 2:19:32
  He decides to piss through the letterbox and he's like, what
• 2:19:35
  people watching, what people watching.
• 2:19:36
  He's like, oh, that's fine, they'll just see my clock then,
• 2:19:38
  weren't they? And it's just like, no.
• 2:19:39
  I saw that episode. I'm pretty sure I saw that.
• 2:19:41
  It's crazy. And then and then later on the
• 2:19:43
  pizza comes and of course Jeremy goes to Mark.
• 2:19:47
  He's like, well, do you want some pizza then?
• 2:19:48
  And he's like, no, I don't want your, you know, piss covered,
• 2:19:54
  you know? Pizza that's been pushed through
• 2:19:56
  this letterbox with like, bristles and stuff.
• 2:19:58
  Yeah, And they find it. And just an assignment.
• 2:20:01
  They find an ingenious way to get it through.
• 2:20:03
  So if you ever have this problem, here's what you do.
• 2:20:05
  If you, if you ever need to, for whatever reason, push pizza or
• 2:20:08
  something smaller through a letterbox with bristles, put it
• 2:20:12
  into like a catalog or a small newspaper and push it through
• 2:20:15
  that way and it will be largely untouched.
• 2:20:18
  So they go. But I was like, so I was kind of
• 2:20:22
  like intrigued by that, but also just horrified by the whole
• 2:20:24
  situation. Cuz like, you talk about, like
• 2:20:26
  how TV shows and films make you feel.
• 2:20:29
  I feel like whenever I watch Peep Show, it's with an intense
• 2:20:32
  sense of, like, anxiety and dread the whole time, even
• 2:20:35
  though I know what's gonna happen.
• 2:20:36
  This is awful, but brilliant anyway.
• 2:20:42
  Yeah, a few few final questions for you.
• 2:20:44
  This one I really want to ask about podcasts.
• 2:20:46
  We didn't have a chance to. So when you reached out to me,
• 2:20:49
  you mentioned that the show that you wanted to reach out to me
• 2:20:52
  about that that I did, was an uncomfortable podcast to listen
• 2:20:57
  to was your exact words. So what's the most uncomfortable
• 2:21:00
  podcast you've ever been a part of?
• 2:21:04
  That's. Can't say this one.
• 2:21:06
  No. Well, I mean it definitely, OK.
• 2:21:09
  Actually, believe it or not, it wasn't.
• 2:21:11
  I was going to say it had to be one of mine, but no.
• 2:21:12
  When? When I actually reached out to
• 2:21:15
  you 2 1/2 years ago, back in March of 2001, I reached out to
• 2:21:21
  several different podcasts and I did guest spots on probably
• 2:21:24
  three or four different ones. And there was one that was.
• 2:21:30
  And no. I'd say no judgment, but I'm
• 2:21:33
  about to say some really judgy shit here.
• 2:21:37
  That when people say like, oh don't worry.
• 2:21:39
  All due respect. Yeah, I don't tell a lie, but
• 2:21:42
  don't call me a lie or not going to lie, but that's the one.
• 2:21:46
  Anyway, this was it was a younger and I would say kid cuz
• 2:21:49
  I think he was like 16 years old or something and started his
• 2:21:53
  podcast and I was like his second or third episode and he
• 2:21:57
  had no clue what he was doing. He had absolutely like no idea.
• 2:22:04
  Like he he just went in and he's like, OK, let's start.
• 2:22:08
  I'm recording what what what do you think we should talk about
• 2:22:11
  what? What should we talk about today?
• 2:22:14
  And it went for like 45 minutes and.
• 2:22:18
  Still a decent 45 minutes. I am the most egotistical person
• 2:22:23
  when it comes to listening back or watching back my own media.
• 2:22:27
  I did not go back and listen to that one.
• 2:22:30
  Because it was just dead air. And no, there was nothing there.
• 2:22:36
  There was no there there. And it was because there was
• 2:22:39
  absolutely no preparation. They had no idea what they
• 2:22:42
  wanted their podcast to be about.
• 2:22:44
  They just wanted to have a podcast and they did not care
• 2:22:46
  what it was. They just wanted to have a
• 2:22:48
  podcast. So they were going to have a
• 2:22:50
  podcast. They put a thing out on.
• 2:22:53
  I don't know if there's a Reddit thread or something.
• 2:22:55
  It was a thing to podcast looking for guests, and that's
• 2:22:59
  where I found them. And you know, it was just there
• 2:23:04
  was absolutely nothing to it. It was just there.
• 2:23:12
  I don't know the name of it because I did not even listen to
• 2:23:14
  it, so. I mean, that is often how it
• 2:23:18
  starts in the very beginning. I mean, I remember when I first
• 2:23:20
  started my show, like I knew at least I had a plan in place, as
• 2:23:25
  I mentioned earlier, and I'm still proud of those earlier
• 2:23:27
  episodes, but. They are still painful to listen
• 2:23:30
  to sometimes. I don't know, but you gotta
• 2:23:32
  start somewhere. You gotta find your voice, and
• 2:23:35
  that takes time, but just the first ones are just kind of
• 2:23:37
  getting your feet wet. Worst guests you've had and why?
• 2:23:44
  Oh yeah. Can't wait for this.
• 2:23:53
  Okay, let me ask you a follow up.
• 2:23:55
  No, I'm the only. Reason is this political answer.
• 2:23:58
  No, it's not. It's not political.
• 2:24:00
  It's just that I've had so few and all of them I'm sure will
• 2:24:05
  check this out and I do not want to do that.
• 2:24:11
  So I will tell you. I'll tell you.
• 2:24:13
  I won't say who it was, but I'll say why it was.
• 2:24:16
  Okay. My podcast is a movie podcast.
• 2:24:21
  There is. A certain expectation that I
• 2:24:24
  have and one of the guests that we've had on several times who's
• 2:24:28
  actually been very good. He actually said to my other
• 2:24:31
  podcast host. That's a real ball Buster as far
• 2:24:35
  as because I was asking for hey, I need, I need this from you.
• 2:24:40
  I need this from you. I need this from you because I
• 2:24:41
  need certain things in prep because I'm the one that
• 2:24:44
  produces the. So I need all these tools.
• 2:24:46
  I need all these things in place.
• 2:24:47
  I need a headshot. I need this.
• 2:24:48
  I need this and he's like he's he's kind of slave driving here.
• 2:24:53
  It's like, well, first of all, you're not getting the tone, but
• 2:24:56
  there's just an expectation of, you know, you need to do these
• 2:24:59
  things. So I had a I had a podcast guest
• 2:25:02
  come on. They had not watched the film.
• 2:25:06
  They had seen the film when they were younger, but they had not
• 2:25:10
  recently watched the film. They had no notes.
• 2:25:15
  They refused to provide me with a headshot that I could do for
• 2:25:19
  the, you know. For advertisement for, you know,
• 2:25:23
  putting the word out there. So they gave me nothing to work
• 2:25:27
  with and I basically did a full podcast, mostly just myself
• 2:25:35
  trying to draw them in, but they hadn't seen the film recently so
• 2:25:39
  they couldn't really comment on what I was talking about about
• 2:25:42
  the film. It's not peeling teeth.
• 2:25:46
  Really. What do you do?
• 2:25:49
  I don't. Know just push through and.
• 2:25:51
  That's how I felt with that show I told you about earlier, that
• 2:25:54
  guest. Like, I don't mind dragging
• 2:25:55
  anything in the mud. They gave me nothing.
• 2:25:57
  I I honestly thought about not publishing it.
• 2:25:59
  Yeah. It it was to that point where
• 2:26:02
  it's just like, I don't even know if I want to put this out.
• 2:26:04
  But oddly enough I did get feedback from somebody that had
• 2:26:07
  never listened to another podcast of mine that from my
• 2:26:11
  wife of all people and they said they loved it, which I don't
• 2:26:15
  know how the hell that happened. So different strokes, I guess.
• 2:26:18
  Final question, do you have any upcoming projects or final
• 2:26:21
  thoughts that you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 2:26:24
  No upcoming projects. I I want thank you very much for
• 2:26:28
  having me on again. Honestly if there's ever a time
• 2:26:32
  and you you are desperate you you need somebody to fill a slot
• 2:26:36
  reach out to me. I have a whole page of notes
• 2:26:39
  that did not touch on at all which is fine.
• 2:26:42
  I just I was concerned. It's like oh shit or what are we
• 2:26:45
  going to have to talk about and we.
• 2:26:48
  We filled basically 3 hours more or less, with talking about just
• 2:26:52
  stuff off the cuff more or less. But once again, thank you very
• 2:26:55
  much for anybody that's out there that ever has a concern
• 2:27:03
  about their health, get it checked out.
• 2:27:07
  Don't wait. There are certain things that if
• 2:27:10
  they're caught earlier, they can be resolved.
• 2:27:14
  If they're not caught, they can't be just.
• 2:27:18
  Personal experience on some things that happened.
• 2:27:21
  So you know, if you ever have a question about a health issue,
• 2:27:24
  it's better to have it checked out then not have it checked out
• 2:27:27
  and have it be something that could have been resolved easier.
• 2:27:30
  Other than that, wish nothing but the best to you, both
• 2:27:34
  professionally and personally. Thank you once again, thank you
• 2:27:39
  for having me on the show. It has been a great
• 2:27:41
  conversation. I think I did a lot less so and
• 2:27:43
  um and. Blah blah blah blah blah.
• 2:27:46
  And I apologize for the power outage and the inability to get
• 2:27:49
  on right away, but other than that, I think that's all I got.
• 2:27:52
  Thank you SO. Much beta Max rewind.
• 2:27:55
  I think I got beta Max rewind. I got my own swag so.
• 2:28:00
  Thank you so much, man. So honor and you're always
• 2:28:03
  welcome back on the show. And yeah, thank you so much,
• 2:28:06
  man. Sounds great.
• 2:28:07
  Thank you. Cool.
• 2:28:08
  The listeners of the Christian Reef Podcast.
• 2:28:10
  I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
• 2:28:13
  As always, be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.