Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Beautiful teen girl home on college break found naked, raped and murdered after jogging with her dog. What happened to Mandy Stavik?

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Beautiful teen girl home on college break found naked, raped and murdered after jogging with her dog. What happened to Mandy Stavik? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: How did an eighteen year old girl just starting her
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: life vanish while out running with her dog? How does
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: that happen? We hear the same scenario over and over
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and over. This girl, Amanda Mandy Stavic, vanishes in broad
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: daylight around two pm November twenty four, jogging with her
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: dog near her own home, Bellingham, Washington State. This is
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a lovely area, very low crime rate. How did it happen?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Maddie. It just graduated from
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: my school. She was in her first year at Central
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Washington University. She came home for Thanksgiving break. Mandy left
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: her home on the day after Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty nine.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: She wanted to get in and run. It was kind
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of in the late afternoon. She had a daily route
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: that she used to jog that took her down the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: road that her house was on on Strand Road, down
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  Speaker 1: to the Nosack River and back. She went with their dog, Kira,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: German shepherd dog. It was an older dog, but it
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: was said it was very protective of Mandy. I was
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: panicked the middle of She didn't get home one time,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: and then I was doubly panicked a few minutes later
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: when the dog was there and she wasn't any kind
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of missing person call is a nine one one call
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and it requires immune response and a deputy will go
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: out and talk to the reporting party in any investigation
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: like this year. Now look at boyfriends, anybody that they
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: might have had trouble with Dy. His boyfriend was cleared
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: after he gave a police statement. You were just hearing
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: our friends at ABC twenty twenty. Take a listen to this.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Mandy left her home on the day after Thanksgiving in
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. She wanted to get in a run.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: It was kind of in the late afternoon. She had
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: a daily route that she used to jog that took
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: her down the road that her house was on on
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Strand Road, down to the Nosack River and back. She
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: went with their dog, Kira, German shepherd dog was an
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: older dog, but it was said it was very protective
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: of Fandy. I normally went with her. I rode my bike,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: she ran, and the dog pounded along after us. But
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that last morning which she disappeared, I didn't go with
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: her because my sister was there, and so I kicked
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: myself when she didn't come back when she should have
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: come back and then the dog came back without her.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I was panicky. First person I called was her boyfriend,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Mary was worried that many was missing. Then I got worried.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: The dog came home alone after about two hours, and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: they suspected something terrible had happened to her. It was
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: so unusual that people started looking immediately. You were hearing
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: our friends at ABC twenty twenty, and it reminds me
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: so much of the case of Karita Vatranto, the Long
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Island jogger. The one day her firefighter dad Field Vatranto
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: does not go jogging with her, she ends up dead.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is a lot of guilt to carry around,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: And you're hearing the same thing in the case of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: this teen girl, Mandy Stavic, And that's kind of guilt
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that follows you and weighs on you the rest of
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: your life. With me right now, an all star paddle.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, judge and trial lawyer at Ashley Wilcott dot Com.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley Detected and this guy knows his way around
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a courtroom and a crime scene. Author of Outside Your
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Door on Amazon. George skiro DNA expert with scales Biological
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Laboratory in and boy do we need a DNA expert today.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Doctor Katherine Maloney joining me. Renowned Deputy Chief Medical Examiner,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Erie County Medical Examiner's Office. Doctor Carla Manley, Psychologists Fear Specialist,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Doctor Carla Manley dot Com her latest book, Aging Joyfully.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: But right now to Joanna Small, reporter with k I
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: R O seven TV. Joanna, thank you for being with us.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the area where Mandy Stavic went missing.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Nancy, it was the Bellingham area, but
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: it's actually a little bit northeast of there in a
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: more world community. It's Watsom County, which is the closest
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: county to Canada, and the town that Mandy lived in
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: is called act Me and it was a very small community.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Everyone was very tight knit. In fact, the majority of
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: her friends lived on the same street she did, that
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  Speaker 1: was Strand Road. They all went to a small high
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  Speaker 1: school called Mount Baker. People at that high school still
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: remember her, and there's teachers who are still working there.
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  Speaker 1: So Mandy's community was very well aware of her, and
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: she was, you know, a top athlete. She was a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: very popular girl. She had a lot of family members
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: so it was no secret that she was well liked
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and beloved in that community. That is hurting me so much.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: She is just a little girl out jogging with her
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  Speaker 1: dog and a small rural community there on the Canadian border.
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  Speaker 1: She goes missing, and it is a free for all.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Everybody's looking for Mandy, an extensive search for a missing teenager.
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  Speaker 1: Her brother, who was visiting a neighbor, actually saw her
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: run one direction and then a few minutes later run
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  Speaker 1: the other way. He was the last person to see her.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Every TV station, radios, and even outside the state, national
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: media we're covering it. I was in my first year
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: as a reporter at the Bellingham Herald at the time.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I hopped in my car and I drove out and
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: interviewed Mary. She understood that there was a chance that
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: we could help. You're hearing the voice of a Bellingham
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Harold reporter Carol Herrick at ABC twenty twenty Joanna Small
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: with me ka I r O seven TV. Joanna tell
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: me about the search that ensued and who first called
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: nine one one. Mandy again was a very well liked,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: very popular girl. Most people knew of her and really
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: cared about her family. So immediately a search was launched,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: a very extensive search because I mentioned if it's an
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: extremely rural area right along the Nooksack River, and it
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: was such a large geographic space, so it required a
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: lot of manpower. There were hundreds, hundreds of people who
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: were out there searching for Mandy, and it was pretty
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: overwhelming detectives. People from Bellingham, people from Seattle, and that's
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: about two and a half hours south of the Acne area.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: So the search continued for several days. People she'd gone
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: to high school, if people from her past, people who
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: didn't even know her. And again, it was extensive. The
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Nooksack River is a fact moving, very long and wide river,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: and they were searching the entire area, so it was
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: incredibly time consuming and incredibly intense. You know, very often
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: people think if they have a dog with them, it
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: saves them from danger. And actually, as you know, Ash Walcott,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I'm working on a new book, Don't be a Victim,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: and that is one of the tips I give people,
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  Speaker 1: if you can take a dog with you. She did
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: take a dog with her, but that did not stop
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: her from going missing. And I'm looking at a photo
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: of her right now, and you can see this photo
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: at crime online dot com. She has the hairstyle of
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the day. It's long and then waves, kind of like
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: a fair of faucet, but not exactly beautiful, kind of
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a strawberry blonde, big brown eyes, and somebody puts some
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: money into her smile, because there's no way you can
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: have a smile that perfect. Jack. You look at this,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, look at that. I mean somebody loves this
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  Speaker 1: girl and is taking care of her. The one day
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: they don't go jogging with her, she goes missing. To
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, judge and trial lawyer at Ashley Wilcot dot com.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: How many times do we do things in retrospect as teens,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: as young people, even just up until the time the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: twins were born, I would go running up and down
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  Speaker 1: the East River at night at ten o'clock at not
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: me a felony prosecutor that knows better. It's a feeling
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: of invincible ability. I think it is, and I think
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that goes with you. But keep in mind, generally, can
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: you trust? Sure? Right, people can trust and you can
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: trust that you can go for a run, that it's
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: all okay and it's going to be okay. But here's
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the thing I need to say about the dogs, because
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I noticed that as well. When you go running or
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: you have a dog with you, you absolutely assume that
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: it's safer and that you're going to be okay. So
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the two things I would look for as a result
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: of that is, Number one, anyone at all that they
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: questioned that they interviewed, did they have any marks that
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: could have been caused by a dog, because that dog
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: might have bitten or gone after somebody who tried to
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: get to her. The second thing is I would think
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  Speaker 1: in my mind it must have been somebody that she
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: knew and that knew her dog, because then a dog
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: would not be defending her necessarily. Well, I don't really
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: even know for sure what the dog, what kind it was.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, if it's our dog, it's a chubby little
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: docksin and I don't know, you know, if he would
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: pose that much of a threat, although he does a
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: lot of growling time stories with Nancy Grace, we are
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: talking about eighteen year old girl just starting her life
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Vanish while out running with her dog. Stephen Lampley detective
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: at Stephen Lampley dot com, author of Outside Your Door
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley, What about it? How safe is it for
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: someone like Mandy to go jock and remember this a
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: very rural area. How does that play into the scenario? Stephen, Well,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: that you would think it would be safe, you know,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: you would you would reasonably suspect that she's in a
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: rural area and she has a dog that even that
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: even had a German shepherd, you know, and on top
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: of that, you would think that you could go jogging
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and ben be safe. Oh, it's a German shepherd. Hold on,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Joanna Small, It's a German Shepherd. It's a German Shepherd.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I think it's an older dog though, between like ten
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and twelve years old, the German shepherd that she grew
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: up with. Does it still have teeth? That's my question
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: because Stephen Lampley, you know, I get into it all
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the time about pit bulls and how they eat people.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Although there was a recent pit bull that saved a
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: family's life from a coral snake and his name was
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Zeus and he passed away, okay, and I feel awful
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: about that, But they do still eat people. German shepherds
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: are right up there, I think in the top three.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: They will bite you, yes, and she and she has
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: this German shepherd and they have a reputation for defending.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: They're very, very loyal animals. So as a police officer,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: if if I see, if I see a case like this,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and you know this as well as I do, Nancy,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: whenever you have a young person that comes up missing
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: like under these circumstances, it never ends well. As opposed
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: to is if you have an elderly person that comes
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: up missing, maybe that person just forgotten how to get home,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: but maybe they got lost or got preoccupied. Those don't
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: always end bad. But whenever you have a young person
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: that ends up missing like this, it almost always is
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: not a good result. Yeah, and I know that Steve
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Lampley is speaking anecdotally, but the statistics do bear out
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: what he is saying. Take a listen to this. Learned
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: what Mandy's normal route was and followed the sign and
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: found the evidence that it was her sign that was
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: coming out onto that road, it was her tracks, and
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: followed it to a place where the tracks just stopped
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and they shouldn't have. Her dog was running with her
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: and the dog tracks stopped there. Also, it makes you
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: think probably someone pulled her into a car and took
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: off with her. I mean that's kind of the worst.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: She's not going to be forcibly taken forcible unless two
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: or three guys grabbed her. And there was no evidence
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: of that on the road. There was no scuffling, I'm
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: pushing and shoving and that type of thing. The question was,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: was it just somebody driving by that drove up that
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: road and sees this beautiful girl running with a dog
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and decides to grab her, or was it somebody that
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: knew her? And I'm trying to absorb everything that track
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: or Joel Harden is saying there to twenty twenty to
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Joe at a small reporter jointed me from k I
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: R O SEVN TV. What is he saying about finding
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: trucks they believe they're mandis and then suddenly they stopped
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and no evidence of a scuffle. Explain I interpret to
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: me what he's saying. Well, again, we prefer to it
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: several times. But the area being very very world in
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Azec River is surrounded by brush and so it's very
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: easy to kind of disappear into that brush area. And
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: you have to remember Mandy was an athlete. She was
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: a star basketball player. She ran and almost every day.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think there was a sport that she didn't play,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and she ran very very quickly, so there would never
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: It's not surprising. It wouldn't be surprising to any detectives
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: that there wasn't a visible scuffle. People were pretty sure
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: she could outrun just about anyone. Well yeah, unless that
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: person was in a car, because I mean, if you
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: think about it, common sense agrees with you. But when
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I think back on you know, Karina Vatronto, she was
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: much more physically fit than her killer, Chanelle Lewis. I mean,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: he was addled with dope and booze. She could definitely
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: outrun him, but he had the muscles. And let's see
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Molly Tippetts, she could have outrun her killer. I mean,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: these women think about Missy Beavers, who was not running,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: but as an exercise gladiator instructor, who was I guarantee
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you more fit than whoever killed her. There's not a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: gladiator called a gladiator instructor for no reason. So I
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: find it really interesting to Steve Lampley that they can
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: follow her tracks. You know, tennis shoes, running shoes, and
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: of course you see the dog tracks beside it, you
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: know that's her. And then suddenly they just stop. There's
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: if it's mud or sand or dirt. Do you see that,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: it just stops. Analyze that for me, Stephen Lampley, Well, Nancy,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I wish I could see what they saw on the footprints.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: To have footprints, in other words, just to have to
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: have a couple of footprints like she's jogging and then
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: nothing more, without any scuff, without any turning of the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: footprint like she's turned to talk to someone. To have
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: just footprints like she lifted off is really suspicious. I
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: would think there would be perhaps the ending, but maybe
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: she would have turned to talk to somebody, or the
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: footprints would have been smeared. There would be something more
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: than they just ended. In my opinion. Well, also think
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: about this, as Jackie here in the studio only points out,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't just leave her dog behind, getting the car
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: willingly and leave her dog behind. For those of you
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: just joining us, a graduate of Mount Baker High Mandy Stavock,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: home on bright from her freshman year at Central Washington University,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: goes jogging, but then her German shepherd dog Kira, returns
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: home three hours later without Mandy, and then the nightmares
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: come true. This which went on for three days. She
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: was found. On the third day, Mandy was found on
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: the South Fork with the Nebsack River, probably close to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: five and a half six miles from her house. There
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: was a bend in the river and some debris in
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: the body was just hung up in the debris there.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I saw her body. She was faced out. She was
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: just kind of suspended, just a little bit off the bottom.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: There was a branch there. There was some debris that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: prevented her from floating any further downstream. She was naked
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: except for shoots and socks on theeutenants match the description.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: The detective that was with me dispatched himself in a
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: quick fashion to get to the family home to let
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: her know we had found her. I wouldn't wish this
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: on even my worst enemy. There's nothing, there is nothing worse.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: There's nothing worse than losing a child. Oh my stars,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: just hearing the mom is so so upsetting. You are
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: hearing our friends at ABC and Mandy's mom. To carlau Manly,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: psychologist and fear specialist at doctor Carl up Many dot com,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: her many mini books on Amazon dotor Carla Manley, when
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: my fiance was murdered, I had no idea there could
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: be a pain worse than that. When I lost my dad.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: It seemed to bring it all back, the thought of
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: losing a child, your child to me, I don't think
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I could go on, Doctor Marley. I do believe that
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: would be the worst loss, absolutely, because it's not what
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: we expect as a parent. We want to be the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: one who predeceases the child, and so the parent in
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: this case, this beautiful mother is left thinking, oh, this
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: year Mandy would be doing this, and in fact, this
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: year where we are right now, she would be likely
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: turning forty eight. And when we start getting into the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: mother's shoes and realizing what an incredible life long loss
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: this is. When we have this violent person who an
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: opportunistic act in a beautiful, small world community and wipes
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: out one of her most if not her most beloved
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: being on the planet, it's horrific crime stories with Nancy Grace,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: the medical examiner determined Mandy's cause of death to be drowning.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: She'd suffered a head injury and had been sexually assaulted.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: They took DNA evidence from Mandy's body. They created a
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: DNA profile of both Mandy and an unknown male time
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: and time again. They would have a person of interest,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: they would question that person, but something would rule them out,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: they had a good alibi or ultimately their DNA did
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: not match. This case dragged on. It comes a gold case,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: but after ten, fifteen, twenty years, it's like, well, it's
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: never gonna be solved. Our friends at ABC and we
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: were talking about the cold case of Mandy Stavit, a
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: teen girl home from college on bright Thanksgiving, Bright, goes
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: jogging with her German shepherd dog. Never comes home, her
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: body found in a river, naked except for shoes and socks.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I mean to me, right there, that is the tip
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: off she was sex assaulted, but the medical examiner confirmed it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: To doctor Catherine Maloney joining me, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: at Erie County Medical Examiner's Office, Nickel City Forensics, Doctor Maloney,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: how do they tell after a body has been in
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: the water for that period of time three days, what
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the cause of death is and that there was a
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: sex assault. Well, and in terms of a sex assault,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: you could look for trauma to the genitalia. You could
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: also do swabs to look for the presence of sperm
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: or the for DNA to be in those swabs, and
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: then in terms of drowning being the diagnosis drowning is
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: sort of a diagnosis of exclusion, or you sort of
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: excluded everything else. So the person wasn't stabbed, they weren't shot,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: they weren't strangled. They did say she had the it
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: sounded like a bruise on the back of her head.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So with nothing else than the assumption becomes the person
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: must have been drowned. They're found in water. Well, actually,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: when you find a body naked except for the shoes
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: and socks in water dead, the fact that she was
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: unclosed says to me immediately there was a sex attack.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: It's freezing cold. She's got on socks and shoes, so
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that rules out a swim, which is, you know, you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: far fetched to start with. But the fact that she's
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: naked and in the water says to me she has
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: been sex assaulted. That goes to motive to whoever killed her.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: If this had been a consensual relationship, a consensual sex relationship,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: she likely would not have been killed. So put that
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: together and that gives me a sex motive for murder.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: To Katherine Maloney, Nickel City Forensics dotor. Maloney's speaking of DNA.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: You would think that rushing water would take the DNA
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: off the body, but when the DNA is in the body,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: such as in the vagina or the vaginal tract, the
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: water would have no effect on it. It would stay there.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: That is correct. The DNA basically would have been in
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: a place where it couldn't have been washed off, Doctor Maloney,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: How long can you get a viable DNA match from DNA,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: for instance, in the vaginal track. That's a good question.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: It probably depends on the condition of the body and
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the condition of the where the body is found, if
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the body is decomposed, if there's any type of insect
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: or animal activity that could have disrupted the presence of
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the DNA. It really is kind of on a case
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: by case basis. I remember arguing to juries that and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: this is before DNA, that DNA at trial anyway, there's
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: always been duxuraybendu claic acid, but before we could perfect
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: it to bring it into trial. Sperm last generally three
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: days about swimming around. First the tail breaks off, the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: next day the head breaks off. Then after that that
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: the sperm starts to degenerate deteriorate. However, DNA not fully
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: intact Spermonozoa still exists. Joining me right now, DNA expert
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: from Scales Biological Laboratory, George Skiro, George Skiro, how long,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: let's just say, inside the vaginal tract or in the mouth,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: or the throat or in your rectum, how long inside
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: a body will DNA be preserved? Well, Nancy, As the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: doctor pointed out, there are a number of variables that
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: go into that, and that's one of the things that
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: we kind of call the holy grail of forensic science
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: is trying to determine what we call postcoital interview interval,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: how long maybe time lapse between finding sperm and the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: actual incident, and the data is all over the map.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: There is one case where actually up to nineteen days
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: later in a cadaver they found in texts from ata zoa.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: So there's no real timeline you can put on that.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So as long as it's there, as long as it's
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: not disturbed, as long as it's not diluted, it can
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: last many days. Wow, So we would be able to
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: recover that and take swabs, and then take those swabs
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and then determine if they're spermatozoa present, and then determined DNA.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Determined the DNA from those spermatozoa. Back to Joanna Small,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: reporter with ki R of seven TV. We know it's
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: three days later that a searcher came upon Mandy's lifeless
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: and naked body. They're in the south Fork of the
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Nusak River. Who found her body? That was Detective Ron Peterson.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Initially a search team that was going that was actually
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: in the river, that was in the river by boat
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: saw the body. They were volunteer firefighters. They feel comfortable
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: approaching the bodies, so they contacted Detective Ron Peterson with
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Wacom County Sheriff's Office, who immediately went to that area
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and saw, as you mentioned, her body face down in
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the water with only shoes and socks. And Ron also
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: has a daughter who went to school with Mandy and
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: looked a whole lot like Mandy in terms of you know,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: it's the same hair, the same eyes, and immediately his mind,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: he told me, went to his daughter, and so when
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: he turned her over, it was extremely emotional for him.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Everybody in that department has a personal connection to either
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: the family, the community, or Mandy herself, and so it
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: was heartbreaking. The search big ends from Mandy Statics killer
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Less and we went out in contacted as many folks
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: as we could, asked for samples, try to find out
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: what they might have known or what they might have heard.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Over the last thirty years. The longest case I worked
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: on without having an investigative leave Teenae wife. One point,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: we sent thirty one samples at one time. She sorted
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: to all of them, wouldn't say you lose hope after
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: comparing that many samples, But you can't be as excited
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: each time when you get let down that many times.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: To me, it was if you haven't got anything to hide,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: then there's no problem giving your DNA. And I had
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: no problems asking. The case had never never left the
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: thoughts of Bandy's France, and so two women were talking
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: about the case and talking about what a strange person
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Tim Bass was. We should talk to the Sheriff's office,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: they should look at him crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: He was very controlling and always told me what to do,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: what I could wear, what I couldn't wear, who I
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: could talk to, who I couldn't talk to. He didn't
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: even call me by my name, He called me by
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: for twenty ten Gina had filed for a domestic Islands
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: protection order for herself and her three children. In the order,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: she had said that she didn't feel safe and that
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Tim would watch Cold Case TV files. When he would
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: watch the Cold Case Files or movies that pertain to murder,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: he would always say the murderer was stupid, one didn't
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: cover his tracks very well, and he wouldn't be stupid
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: enough to get caught. Wow. Okay, that's scary enough right there.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And with a neighbor that people already think has peculiar
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: odd behavior. The minute a murder occurs of Mandy Stavic,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: he suddenly gets married and moves away immediately. And I
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: don't know about you guys, but to ask you, Wilcott,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: they had a wedding already planned to happen in the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: future and then something goes Yeah, forget that, let's get
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: married right now. Move That would concern me, Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And you know what, I always say that, especially about women, trust,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: cut and instinct, and so it would concern me as well.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And why aren't you going to marry the devil on himself? Yeah?
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I agree, but I find it a big red flag
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: that they suddenly get married and move away. Now, this
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: is even more of a red flag. Gina and Tim
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: in their home. They asked Tim to give a DNA sample.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I thought Tim would give us his DNA or he wouldn't.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: But if you don't ask, you you don't know. And
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: they said that they were there to collect the DNA
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: that they had already collected from a lot of people
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: in the area. She said that she was expecting Tim
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: home within a few minutes. They asked him about Mandy
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: staff and he said, oh, and he looked up at
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: the ceiling like he couldn't remember that name. That was
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: definitely a red flag for me, which indicated to me
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: he's obviously lying. You don't grow up in that area.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Everybody knew what the many Staffic case was, and she
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: ran past his house every day. How would you not
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: know it? And he said, oh, that was at the
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: girl that was missing, and he said, they said, yes
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: it was, and he said, oh, you I remember she
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: was found in the river. Like it was sort of
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: for a revelation that he had brought that back to
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: his mind. You know, it is exactly who Manny Staffick was,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: but he was playing it off like he didn't. Tim
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: said he wasn't going to give us a DNA that
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: he didn't trust the police, which was another red flag,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and by then we were out of flags. Well, won't
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: give a DNA sample and then pretends he doesn't know
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: the neighbor that ran by his house every single day. Now,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: those are some red flags in my mind. What about it, Ashley?
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Red flagues or get about red flague? To me, it
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: indicates Listen, he knew he was complicit. He has more
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: information than they know at this point in time. You know,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I just not giving DNA, pretending you don't know a neighbor,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: then we have the problem. He refuses to give DNA,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: and under the law at this point, they don't have
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: enough evidence to get a warrant on Tim Bass. They
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: can't force him to give his DNA, so they're kind
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: of stuck until this. If something happened to my daughter,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I'd want someone to help me, and I the thought
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: of her mom never having an answer of who did
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: that to her daughter? If I can help her find
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: that piece, I wanted to do it. She watched Tim
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: they got a water cooler at their office, and he
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: drank out of a plastic cup and threw it away.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I threw it in the garbage in front of me,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: walked past into the bathroom, and I just I looked
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: on the garbage and my heart was like m you know,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: beating out of my chest. And I grabbed it and
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I put it in my desktoer. I think I waited
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit and then I texted Detective Bowie. I
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: couldn't get it back to the office quick enough and
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: down to the lab quick enough to have a test it. Wow,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: you're hearing co workers of this guy, Tim Bass speaking
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: to ABC twenty twenty to Joanna Small, reporter k I
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: r O seven TV. Who is this person, Kim a
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Wagoner and why does she feel she had to get
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Tim Bass's DNA starreptitiously, secretly and with another person the
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: community who felt a connection to Mandy. She didn't know
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Mandy personally, but like I said, everyone in the community
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: felt some kind of connection to this girl or to
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: her family and to her story. And Kim also has
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: a daughter, and so she felt incredibly motivated to help
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the police in any way she could. This case haunted
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: the people in Watcom County for years, you know, nearly
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: thirty years at that point. This isn't twenty seventeen, and
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: it was. It was devastating, and Kim was someone who
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: still thought about it every day, and so when she
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: saw the opportunity to do something positive that could potentially
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: end this, and she mentioned this several times to me,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: but in this torture for Mandy's family, she didn't hesitate.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: She wanted to do it immediately, which is actually very brave.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: And isn't it true, Joanna Small k R O sevent
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: TV that detectives have been following Bass around but they
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: couldn't get his DNA. They've been following him, I mean,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: we have heard of DNA being obtained off a piece
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: of pizza, believe it or not. In the mansion murder
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: trial up in the DC area, the whole family is
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: murdered by a guy who comes to the door pretending
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: to deliver pizza. Inside the scene, they find a half
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: eating pizza and they take DNA off the pizza crust
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and they catch the killer. So isn't it true, Joanna's Small?
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: They've been following Tim Bass around and all they've got
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: so far at this point is he's a neighbor. He
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: refuses to give a DNA sample others think he has
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: very odd and peculiar behavior and claims he didn't know Mandy,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: which obviously he does, so they start following him. That's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: totally legal they had. Isn't it true he would take
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: out his trash and get rid of it. I mean,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: they couldn't catch him in anything. Joanna Kim was a
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: fairly He kind of did the same thing every day. Therefore,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't stopping at restaurant. He wasn't really
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: deviating from his routine. It was mostly work and home,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: and they didn't have access to his work vehicle where
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: he spent the majority of his time. And so absolutely yeah,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: they were following him around. They were attempting to catch
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: him in I don't know, I would call it like
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: a slip, just it's something different. And to no Avail,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: that really wasn't happen. And to make it even more difficult,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: we learned that he would pack up his trash in
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: burn it. He never left DNA out like on a
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: soda bottle or a plastic four. It just didn't happen.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: To George Skiro joining me, DNA expert with Scales Biological Laboratory, George,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: how do you get DNA off. For instance, a plastic cup,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: well you get some dnaf a plastic cup is relatively simple.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: You just take a swab, a sterile swab, cotton swab,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: just like a Q tip, moisten it with some the
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: still water swab the area in the mouth area. Take
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: that lended air dry package. It sent it away to
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: be analyzed. It's that simple, that simple. You know, we
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: hear of stories like this, but in this case it's true.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: A coworker decides to help out, doesn't really even know
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Mandy Stavock, and she gets the DNA. Timothy Forrest Bass
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Deputies forward DNA samples from mister Bass to the Washington
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: State Crime Laboratory, who reported to us that as DNA
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: matched the DNA recovered from Mandy's body. You are hearing
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: what can County share of Bill elfo announced your first
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: degree kidnapping, murder, and rate charges on Tim Bass. But
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: isn't it true Joe at a small he claimed they
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: had a consensual sex relationship. Yeah, that was the basis
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: entirely for Tim for how Tim try to explain things.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: The case goes to trial and then this we the
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: jury find the defendant Timothy Forrest Bass guilty of the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: crime of murder in the first degree as charged in
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: count one. The sentence was three hundred and tw twenty months.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: That's almost twenty seven years. Why not there was not
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: an aggravated count of murder in this particular case. There
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: wasn't a murder weapon identified, as someone else from the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: panel had mentioned she had a deep bruise on the
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: top of her head and they said the birdie in
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the autopsy the corner and said the bruise could have
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: potentially caused unconsciousness. But there was never any kind of
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: weapon identified, so it wasn't an aggravated murder charge. And ironically,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: or maybe sadly, he will send less time in prison
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: than the number of years it took to find him
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: as a killer. Wait a minute, are you telling me
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: that the fact that she was raped does not aggravate
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: the murder. They actually, because of they couldn't technically charge
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: him with rape statute of limitations, so they had officially
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: dropped that charge, and he was found guilty of first
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: degree murder, So he was not convicted on right. He
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: was not convicted on rape. But as everybody described the crime,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and even from the prosecutor's office. It was considered a
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: rape and murder, but he wasn't convicted on a separate
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: rape charge. So because they couldn't identify a weapon and
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: they rape statutorially could not be prosecuted because of the
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: statute delimitations. It was a flat out murder, not an
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: aggravated murder, and therefore he did not get a lot.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: If he got three hundred and twenty months about twenty
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: seventy years, there's an aggravated murder statute in the state
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: of Washington, and that elevates things, and so it was
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say it was disappointing because they knew,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the family knew going into this about the maximum sense
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: he could receive, so they were prepared and so the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: case went unsolved as long as the sentence and he
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: is set to walk free potentially in twenty thirty six.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: That's just in sixteen years. Question, Joeanna Small, how did
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Tim Bass hide in playing side all these years? So
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Tim immediately left the community, as you mentioned, he got
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: married to his fiance. Justice delayed, but not denied. Nancy
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Grace Crimes Tory signing off goodbye friend,