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Showcasing a Remarkable University of Tennessee Football Collection · Sports History Network

• 1:43
  Hello my football friends.
• 1:44
  This is Darren Hayes of pigskindispatch.com once again to the Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history.
• 1:49
  And you are in for a treat tonight as we are going to talk a little bit of University of Tennessee football.
• 1:54
  Our guest tonight is Bill Harb, a longtime historian and collector dedicated to preserving the history of the University of Tennessee football.
• 2:01
  A native Knoxvillian, he has attended his first Tennessee football game at the age of nine and he's been devoted fan ever since.
• 2:08
  Over the last 30 years, he, he's assembled an extensive collection devoted to Tennessee football dating all the way back to pre1950, even to early 1900s.
• 2:20
  He has some special pieces.
• 2:22
  He does his collecting, he researches these pieces and he helps keep a lot of the stories of the players, the coaches and the fans who shape Tennessee football.
• 2:30
  It will leave you no longer in doubt or in suspense.
• 2:34
  I mean, as we will bring in Bill Harb.
• 2:37
  Welcome to the Pig Pen,.
• 2:38
  Darren.
• 2:39
  Thanks for having me on.
• 2:39
  I really appreciate it.
• 2:41
  Bill, we really appreciate you coming on here because University of Tennessee, wow, what a legendary pass that this, this place has produced some fine football players.
• 2:51
  Now we know about the Peyton Mannings and the Reggie Whites and a lot of modern day players, but your collection as we're seeing behind you really goes extensively way back Pre World War II.
• 3:04
  Yeah, so like you mentioned, I've been collecting since, since, well, I mean, basically since I was 9.
• 3:09
  I guess I was a little slow for most Knoxvillians.
• 3:12
  You know, I was nine before I went to my first game.
• 3:14
  The rest everybody else probably goes at age 2 or something like that.
• 3:17
  But I've still got the tickets from the first games I went to with my grandfather when I was nine.
• 3:22
  And I, I truly believe there's some sort of collecting gene.
• 3:26
  And, and I've got that and I, and I've been collecting ever since.
• 3:30
  I've got all kinds of different things and have just been working on this collection just over the years.
• 3:39
  You know, when ebay came out around around 2000, late 90s 2000, it really kind of exploded.
• 3:46
  So, so what was your first piece?
• 3:47
  You know, everybody has that first piece, they look back and say, okay, this is where I caught the bug.
• 3:52
  What was that for you for UT collections?
• 3:56
  Well, growing up in Knoxville, my dad was a UT grad as well and dad graduated in 1956 and he would talk about the legendary General Neyland teams of the early 50s and he loved to talk about the 1951
• 4:12
  Cotton Bowl.
• 4:13
  And there's a famous photo of a run by the tailback named Hank larisela in the Cotton Boll.
• 4:22
  When Hank gets all the way down to the 10 yard line.
• 4:26
  And that was really the first piece.
• 4:29
  I finally was able to track down a.
• 4:32
  An original, not an original, but a copy of that and sent it off and got it signed by almost everyone on there, which is about eight.
• 4:38
  Eight different players.
• 4:40
  And you know, you send it off to one person and it comes back and it's no big deal.
• 4:44
  And then two and three, it's no big deal.
• 4:45
  And then when you get to 4 and 5, you start worrying, well, is it going to come back?
• 4:49
  And so I started reaching out to these guys and this is in the, you know, late, late 90s.
• 4:54
  And, and one of them named Buddy Lyons said, he said, I'd be happy to sign it.
• 4:59
  It'll be the only one in existence because I've never signed another one.
• 5:03
  And why don't you give me a call sometime and let's talk football.
• 5:05
  And Buddy and I became friends.
• 5:08
  I was in Houston doing part of my training at the time, and I went over to Dallas and met Buddy.
• 5:13
  And Buddy was living 10 minutes away from a guy named John Grubel who was on the photo.
• 5:17
  And he didn't even know it.
• 5:18
  And he tracked John down and we went over and had just had a great afternoon.
• 5:22
  And so I've still got that signed photo.
• 5:24
  And that's.
• 5:25
  That's really what kind of got me into this.
• 5:28
  Well, yeah, you mean you jumped in with both feet where you have these autographs coming on there, these players in that legendary picture.
• 5:35
  Wow, that is amazing.
• 5:36
  Yeah.
• 5:37
  Well, the best part about it though is that growing up there was a 4 by 6 foot version of that in the basketball arena.
• 5:44
  And when they tore down the basketball arena, some of that stuff got preserved and what some was going to be thrown out.
• 5:52
  And fortunately I got, I got that original 4 by 6 foot version of that.
• 5:57
  And so that's, that's a treasured piece.
• 6:00
  So you got, you got the tiny version with this all signed and you got the, the large version.
• 6:05
  Exactly.
• 6:06
  It takes me back to almost like Dr.
• 6:08
  Evil and Mini Me, you know,.
• 6:12
  Very good comparison.
• 6:13
  A little bit pop culture thrown in there.
• 6:15
  Yeah.
• 6:16
  All right, so let's.
• 6:18
  You have a extensive collection pre 19.
• 6:22
  So why don't you tell us about some of these items that you have and maybe some stories that surround them.
• 6:27
  After ebay came out, I started.
• 6:29
  I'd find.
• 6:29
  I find stuff here and there, but it wasn't too common to be able to find what I considered the really historically significant stuff.
• 6:38
  And I found somebody on Craigslist once who said, I've got an extensive collection with a lot of extra programs, and, you know, if you're ever in the Knoxville area, come over to the house.
• 6:48
  And so I went over to the house and went into his basement, and he had a whole museum of Tennessee football history.
• 6:56
  And I thought, oh, my goodness, this is what I thought never really existed.
• 7:00
  And.
• 7:01
  And that was really kind of what.
• 7:02
  What pushed me over the edge into really getting into collecting.
• 7:05
  And that was probably around 2012, 2013.
• 7:09
  He was able to preserve just all kinds of different things, and some of those are my favorite things still.
• 7:15
  This is Bowden Wyatt's jersey from 1938.
• 7:18
  And Bowden was a legend who played from 1936 through 1938.
• 7:24
  In 1938, he was the team captain and was an All American and led the Vols to the Orange bowl, in which they defeated.
• 7:33
  They defeated Oklahoma 17 to nothing.
• 7:38
  After he left.
• 7:39
  After he left Tennessee, he went and he went in.
• 7:42
  He was in World War II.
• 7:44
  He coached a couple of different places, including Mississippi State as assistant coach, and then he became head coach at Wyoming in 1947.
• 7:52
  He stayed at Wyoming for six years.
• 7:54
  They won the Western Athletic Conference.
• 7:57
  He left Wyoming and was recruited to Arkansas.
• 8:00
  They won the Southwestern Conference in 1955.
• 8:05
  And Tennessee wasn't doing too well after General Neyland had left.
• 8:09
  And they recruited Bowden back to Knoxville.
• 8:12
  And so in 1955, Bowden came back to Knoxville and became the head coach.
• 8:16
  And he was the coach from 1955 through 1962.
• 8:20
  And this was his jersey.
• 8:22
  And so this was found in a.
• 8:24
  In a.
• 8:24
  In a barn near where he lived when he moved back to Knoxville.
• 8:29
  And it was found with some other postcards that included some notes to his mother.
• 8:33
  And.
• 8:34
  And a friend of mine that I got this from found it on Craigslist.
• 8:38
  Wow.
• 8:39
  It's a literal barn find of a literal.
• 8:42
  Barn find.
• 8:43
  Wow.
• 8:44
  And.
• 8:44
  And my friend, you know, he reached out to the guy and he said, well, do you know whose jersey this is?
• 8:49
  And he says, well, I think it's bad.
• 8:50
  And Wyatt's.
• 8:51
  And so ultimately, he got that.
• 8:53
  And when my friend decided to stop collecting and focus on his grandkids, I was fortunate enough to get this.
• 9:01
  It's amazing that, you know, 1930s, that vibrant orange.
• 9:05
  And, you know, this thing's 90 some years old, and it is still, like, powerful orange, you know.
• 9:11
  Yeah.
• 9:11
  You can see the moth holes in it.
• 9:14
  Oh, yeah.
• 9:14
  Okay.
• 9:15
  Yeah.
• 9:16
  So Baden Baden had A great career as a player and was ultimately inducted into the College Football hall of Fame as a player and had a great career as a coach, including an almost 650.
• 9:27
  600 winning percentage of 650.
• 9:30
  And was inducted to the hall of Fame as a coach as well.
• 9:33
  And he's one of only four who are in the College Football hall of Fame as both a player and a coach.
• 9:39
  Wow.
• 9:39
  Amazing.
• 9:40
  Amazing piece.
• 9:42
  That's quite.
• 9:43
  There's only.
• 9:44
  Like I said, there's only four.
• 9:46
  Four men who are in the.
• 9:47
  In the College Football hall of Fame as a player.
• 9:49
  And Coach Bowden played at Tennessee.
• 9:52
  The other.
• 9:53
  Another one is Bobby Dodd, who played at Tennessee.
• 9:56
  Another one is Steve Spurrier, who was born in Tennessee.
• 10:00
  And the fourth one is Amos Alonzo Stagg, who we're not sure if he's been to Tennessee.
• 10:05
  And maybe you get Johnny Majors too.
• 10:08
  You know, maybe he'll get that someday.
• 10:10
  You know, that's really an.
• 10:12
  That's Coach Majors.
• 10:14
  A lot of us really believe that Coach Majors should be in the, in the College Football hall of Fame as a coach.
• 10:19
  He was.
• 10:20
  He's in as a player, as an all.
• 10:22
  He's not in as a coach.
• 10:24
  He's missing the winning percentage that they require to get in as a coach by a very slim margin.
• 10:31
  I think they don't take into account the fact that.
• 10:34
  That he won a national championship at Pittsburgh.
• 10:37
  And as soon as he did that, he came to Tennessee and kind of turned the Tennessee program around, even though, you know, we didn't have the success at Tennessee that he did at Pittsburgh.
• 10:48
  But a lot of us, including myself, believe that he should be in the, in the College Football hall of Fame as a, As a coach.
• 10:54
  Yeah.
• 10:54
  Def.
• 10:54
  Definitely.
• 10:55
  That 76 pit team with Tony Dorsett and company, they were really something.
• 11:01
  And you know, and the things, the celebrities he brought, you know, Lee Majors, who's a six million dollar man who was married to Farrah Fawcett, he had them on the sidelines.
• 11:10
  You know, Craig Colquitt was telling us the stories of that on a earlier episode with, you know, Farrah Foster on everybody's dorm wall.
• 11:18
  There she is on the sideline.
• 11:20
  I guess I didn't realize that.
• 11:21
  And, you know, Lee Majors is from Middlesboro, Kentucky, which is just up the road from Knoxville, and he took his name from Johnny Majors.
• 11:30
  Oh, did he really?
• 11:31
  Oh, I did not know that.
• 11:33
  Yeah, he sure did.
• 11:34
  Okay.
• 11:34
  Very cool.
• 11:35
  A big fan, obviously.
• 11:37
  Yeah.
• 11:38
  The next thing that I found recently actually is a, I think 1940s band drum and.
• 11:50
  So is this a skin or is that the whole drum?
• 11:52
  That's the whole drum, actually.
• 11:54
  The whole drum.
• 11:54
  Wow.
• 11:55
  And then.
• 11:55
  And then the interesting thing is you can actually see it in this actual photo in the inauguration.
• 12:02
  And that's.
• 12:02
  Not a.
• 12:03
  Great in.
• 12:06
  In the inauguration, but I found that recently, and that's become one of my favorite things.
• 12:12
  My uncle was actually an assistant band director at Tennessee and in the.
• 12:19
  In the late late 60s and early 70s, and he's the one who's responsible for putting in Rocky top.
• 12:24
  So I have.
• 12:25
  There's a special place in my heart for band memorabilia.
• 12:31
  This is the kind of drum, like the.
• 12:32
  The guy has.
• 12:33
  You know, he's.
• 12:34
  He's standing,.
• 12:34
  Like,.
• 12:35
  On the side of the drum, and he's beating it.
• 12:37
  So you see on either side of him, these.
• 12:39
  The ut.
• 12:40
  And right when you're doing.
• 12:43
  This is.
• 12:43
  This is the bass drum.
• 12:45
  And.
• 12:45
  Then.
• 12:45
  And he'd have it slung over his shoulders.
• 12:47
  And currently there's eight bass drums in the band.
• 12:51
  But just.
• 12:52
  And.
• 12:52
  And when you feel this.
• 12:53
  This is actually, like, made of silk.
• 12:55
  And it's really interesting that.
• 12:57
  I'm just really surprised it even survived,.
• 13:01
  Really, that they're made out of silk, really?
• 13:03
  Yeah.
• 13:04
  This is made out of silk.
• 13:05
  The actual side that they would hit, this is the display side.
• 13:07
  The actual side that play the drum with is on the other side.
• 13:11
  Okay.
• 13:11
  All right, I got you.
• 13:12
  So they.
• 13:12
  The soak.
• 13:13
  So the.
• 13:13
  The sound can emanate out the.
• 13:15
  The other side, probably, right?
• 13:17
  Correct.
• 13:17
  Yeah.
• 13:17
  Okay.
• 13:18
  Wow.
• 13:18
  Right?
• 13:19
  Very cool.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:20
  I.
• 13:20
  Do know that.
• 13:21
  I was really happy to be able to find this and.
• 13:23
  And preserve this.
• 13:24
  I don't have a lot of band memorabilia in my collection, but I do have a little bit that's.
• 13:29
  That's just kind of near and dear to my heart.
• 13:33
  So something else that I find really interesting is this photo book.
• 13:38
  And this is from the 1930 Tennessee vs Vanderbilt game.
• 13:42
  And this was obtained from a legendary Tennessee football photograph collector who actually wrote a book about Tennessee foot.
• 13:52
  Tennessee football detailed in photos.
• 13:54
  And he went all the way back to 1891 and had pictures of every player who'd ever played in it.
• 14:00
  Wow.
• 14:01
  But he.
• 14:01
  And he found this.
• 14:02
  I'm not sure actually where he found it, but.
• 14:05
  But he found this book, and it's got photos in it that.
• 14:12
  That detail almost every play in it.
• 14:14
  And on the.
• 14:15
  On the.
• 14:15
  On the opposite side are.
• 14:18
  Are Coach Neyland's notes and.
• 14:22
  And.
• 14:22
  And.
• 14:23
  And Coach Nealon.
• 14:24
  I got to know General Neyland's son Bob, before he died and we became fairly close.
• 14:32
  And I said, you know, Bob, what's, what was your dad's, what's the secret for your dad's success?
• 14:36
  And he said, no doubt about it.
• 14:38
  Attention to detail.
• 14:40
  And, and when you're, when you see these detailed notes, I mean, you know exactly, exactly what he's talking about.
• 14:46
  He says here, good charge by Saunders Hickman, fair by Aiken, who was, who became the captain in 32.
• 14:55
  Poor by Thayer, who and Hobo Thayer was one of the, the greats of the 1930 team.
• 15:01
  Poor by Thayer and Roberts.
• 15:05
  Good, good work by Cole Hayes, not note holding by Vandy Line.
• 15:11
  Alan.
• 15:11
  And then it says Allen too far back.
• 15:14
  Allen became the, the captain in 1931.
• 15:19
  So yeah, I mean it's just interesting that this is kind of, we do have some video from 1929 from, for Tennessee, but this is kind of the early days of, of, of, of film and before they were using
• 15:33
  film, this is, this is how that, what they were doing.
• 15:36
  That's, that's incredible.
• 15:37
  And you know, I'm a former high school football official.
• 15:40
  I did that for 27 years and.
• 15:41
  I.
• 15:42
  Can tell you.
• 15:42
  So even coaches 90 years ago were complaining about holding that was missed, right?
• 15:48
  Well, yeah, no, let's not talk about Carolina game from last weekend when there was plenty of holding that was called off.
• 15:56
  So before, before we go off of General Nealon, why don't you just tell us a little bit about, you know, because some folks might not be familiar with General Neyland in his career.
• 16:05
  Well, General Neyland had a great career and was referred to by Newt Rockney as the greatest defensive coach of all time.
• 16:13
  General Neyland started at Texas A&M in 1911 and then got a commission to, to West Point and started with the class of 1912 and ultimately graduated in the class of 1916.
• 16:28
  The class in 1915 was referred to as the class the stars shone upon because there were so many generals from World War II that end that were in that class, including Omar Bradley and Dwight Eisenhower.
• 16:43
  So after he left West Point, he went to MIT and ultimately and then comes back to.
• 16:51
  Comes back to West Point where he was the aide de camp for to General MacArthur.
• 16:57
  And then Tennessee was not doing so well at the time and Vanderbilt was the powerhouse of the south and they recruited General Neyland to defeat Vanderbilt.
• 17:11
  And so he was an assistant coach at Tennessee in 1925 and then ultimately named head coach in 1926.
• 17:19
  Over, over he stayed from 1926 through 1952 and had a winning percentage of 600% over those not quite 26 years because of World War II and 1935 when he wasn't there.
• 17:36
  Not quite 600%, but had a, had a shutout record of 70%.
• 17:42
  Yeah.
• 17:42
  Which is.
• 17:43
  70 of the games.
• 17:45
  No points scored for the position.
• 17:47
  That is amazing.
• 17:48
  Yeah, I thought about, you know, one time I asked, I asked General Neal and son Bob.
• 17:52
  I said, I said, I said, do you remember the 1939 Orange Bowl?
• 17:56
  He said, oh, yeah, I remember it very well.
• 17:58
  He said, I remember bad and White kicked a field goal, you know, and so field goals were just quite unusual back then.
• 18:04
  And I thought that was just such an interesting comment, the way he phrased that.
• 18:08
  Well, now I know why Newt Rockne called him the greatest defensive tactician of his time.
• 18:13
  You know, 70% shutouts.
• 18:15
  That's amazing.
• 18:16
  No, no doubt about it.
• 18:17
  There's actually a, A, a new biography on General Neyland that just came out this fall.
• 18:23
  If I can put a, a plug in for my friend Tim Johnson.
• 18:26
  That's just a great read and goes into a lot of detail that I think a lot of us didn't know.
• 18:33
  Yeah.
• 18:34
  Yeah,.
• 18:34
  That's, that's incredible.
• 18:36
  Yeah.
• 18:37
  So, so I take it, you know, off of your right shoulder there, that's the Bowden White jersey you're just, you were showing us earlier.
• 18:44
  That is.
• 18:45
  Hanging up on there.
• 18:46
  And you've got a.
• 18:48
  Looks like over on your, your left, you've got a reddish color jersey there.
• 18:53
  That's kind of interesting.
• 18:54
  When I see of orange.
• 18:55
  Well, that is kind of interesting.
• 18:57
  I actually put that out just for, just for this year.
• 19:02
  That's an interesting story, actually.
• 19:04
  In 1970 was the last time that, that, that Tennessee wore orange and Alabama wore crimson.
• 19:12
  And in 1971, they came out with a, with a gentleman's agreement that the away team would wear white except for LSU, who could wear white at home.
• 19:23
  And, and so 1970s, last year, the Alabama were white, were crimson until this year when Tennessee wore orange and, and Alabama wore, wore crimson.
• 19:34
  But it was just kind of interesting when, when Tennessee, when Tennessee agreed to.
• 19:39
  I'm gonna hop off screen here for a second.
• 19:44
  When Tennessee agreed to wear white, Tennessee's coach, Bill Battle, who had played in Alabama, he was the only one who said, well, no, I don't want to.
• 19:54
  I don't really like this idea of, of the white jerseys.
• 19:59
  We'll go to kind of white.
• 20:01
  And so Tennessee went to kind of white.
• 20:06
  And this is, this is.
• 20:07
  A lot of orange.
• 20:08
  There's a lot of orange There.
• 20:10
  Exactly.
• 20:11
  This is a friend of mine's jersey by the name of David Allen, who was, who was one of the great defensive backs of the, of the 71 team.
• 20:18
  And there's a lot of orange there.
• 20:20
  And so they said, well, we'll kind of wear white.
• 20:23
  Number, number 13 for a DB.
• 20:25
  That's number 13.
• 20:26
  For a DB.
• 20:27
  How about that?
• 20:28
  Yeah.
• 20:28
  And so in 71 and 72, they wore, they wore white.
• 20:33
  The first game of the 71 season when they played Florida, they actually had, had jerseys just like this, but the numbers weren't outlined in black.
• 20:45
  And our famous announcer, John Ward called them the vanishing jerseys.
• 20:50
  And because they couldn't, they couldn't see the numbers from the press box.
• 20:54
  Oh, yeah.
• 20:55
  And so after that, so it took me a while, I finally found one of those jerseys for the, for the, for the, for the collection slash museum.
• 21:02
  And, and after that they put black outlines around them.
• 21:06
  And those jerseys lasted through 72 and 73.
• 21:09
  And then ultimately they went to just plain white jerseys with orange numerals on them.
• 21:15
  Yeah, that's fascinating.
• 21:17
  So what, I mean, I, I guess I didn't follow the story how the NCAA allowed the visitors to wear, not, not wear white anymore.
• 21:27
  I think it was more of a, the way I'm told from a, a friend of mine who's a, a long time historian and writer in Knoxville, Tom Mattingly.
• 21:35
  The way I'm told is it was more of a gentleman's agreement, but Coach Battle said, no, we don't really want to, we don't want to do that.
• 21:41
  And, and, but, and so ultimately they, they did decide to go to white.
• 21:48
  But, but I.
• 21:49
  Think, I think a lot of that was for, was for TV purposes.
• 21:53
  Right.
• 21:54
  But I, I think I know, at least in the high school rulebook it's spelled out that way that,.
• 21:59
  Okay,.
• 22:00
  The whole, the home team will wear dark and the visitors are supposed to bring a light, a lighter colored jersey, which got me into trouble when I was refereeing a local game as our big rival here in your
• 22:11
  high schools, where the visiting team was wearing like a white color like they were supposed to.
• 22:19
  The home team started warming up.
• 22:21
  They had a dark blue jersey on.
• 22:23
  They.
• 22:23
  Went in right before, you know, they go in like five minutes before kickoff and they have their final pep talk and come out, they came out in all light gray.
• 22:31
  So we had these two teams that were.
• 22:33
  One is white, one's all light gray, and they both have dark helmets on.
• 22:36
  So that was interesting for a while.
• 22:37
  Oh, really?
• 22:38
  Yeah.
• 22:39
  And so what we'll do before.
• 22:41
  Before.
• 22:42
  Before 70, when.
• 22:44
  When Tennessee would wear orange, there was a couple times they had to wear white.
• 22:48
  And one of those games was the 1953 Cotton bowl when they wore.
• 22:52
  When they played Texas, and Texas was the home team, and so they wore white in that game.
• 22:58
  And the other One was in 1969, when they played Texas again in the Cotton Pole, and Texas again was the home team, and so they had to wear white in that game, but otherwise, they were.
• 23:06
  Wore orange the whole time.
• 23:08
  Wow, that's incredible.
• 23:10
  But as long as we're talking about colors, maybe you can help answer a question that's popped up in my head here.
• 23:16
  Where did the checkerboard, the orange and white checkerboard, the end zones come from?
• 23:20
  Does there any history on that?
• 23:21
  There's.
• 23:22
  A little.
• 23:23
  I don't think there's a bit of controversy, but there's one story that goes around that if you look through the north end zone at Neyland Stadium, the large building behind there is called Ayers Hall.
• 23:36
  And if you look at the top of that, it kind of looks like a checkerboard.
• 23:39
  And there's a story that goes around that when.
• 23:41
  When coach Doug Dickey came in 1964, that they said, oh, let's make it look like Ayers hall, and that's.
• 23:48
  That we've.
• 23:48
  By looking through the old newspapers online, we've.
• 23:51
  We've debunked that.
• 23:53
  But we.
• 23:54
  We think that Coach Dick.
• 23:55
  We're pretty sure Coach Dickey put that in.
• 23:57
  In 1964 when he.
• 23:58
  When he was hired as head coach when he came from Arkansas.
• 24:02
  It's definitely iconic, and it really stands out and very memorable.
• 24:07
  Even watching the games on television, you know, you're almost.
• 24:10
  Almost as much as a blue field, I guess, right?
• 24:12
  Yeah.
• 24:12
  Well, yeah, that sometimes makes me a little bit confused and nauseous, I think.
• 24:17
  Totally.
• 24:17
  I totally agree.
• 24:19
  Yeah.
• 24:19
  Yeah.
• 24:20
  The orange white side.
• 24:21
  Not.
• 24:21
  It's not offensive.
• 24:22
  As offensive as the blue field.
• 24:24
  Sorry, Boise State.
• 24:25
  But it's kind of obnoxious.
• 24:28
  It's got to be a lot of paint, right?
• 24:29
  Yeah, sure does.
• 24:31
  Yeah.
• 24:32
  All right, so.
• 24:34
  The collection's got all kinds of different things.
• 24:36
  You know, I mean, as you.
• 24:37
  As you continue to collect over a long period of time, you find all kinds of different things, and, you know, you decide to.
• 24:43
  You know, you want the collection to go in a different.
• 24:46
  In a different direction at some point in time or, you know, you find something that's really interesting, and, you know, you go down that.
• 24:53
  That little rabbit hole.
• 24:55
  I've got quite a goal Post collection.
• 24:58
  I've got a piece of the goal Post from the 1943 Sugar bowl, which is actually just a little wood splinter.
• 25:05
  And I've got.
• 25:05
  I got about the same size piece of the goal post from the 1945 Rose bowl, which.
• 25:10
  Which wasn't a good outcome.
• 25:11
  I'm glad you clarified it.
• 25:13
  You have pieces of them.
• 25:14
  I'm picturing.
• 25:14
  I'm like, you must have one hell of a backyard here.
• 25:16
  You have collecting goal posts.
• 25:18
  Well, I've got the crossbar from the 1982 Alabama game when we beat Bear Bryant, so that's pretty neat.
• 25:24
  Yeah.
• 25:25
  Yeah.
• 25:26
  Some students ended up with it because they had access to the art and architecture building where they cut it up, and.
• 25:32
  And ultimately they decided, you know, they didn't want it anymore.
• 25:36
  They probably need some beer money, right?
• 25:39
  Yeah, exactly.
• 25:40
  No, it's just kind of interesting.
• 25:41
  You know, as a collector, you know, you.
• 25:43
  You take the collection different.
• 25:44
  Different ways, and, you know, you find something, you're like, oh, I never thought about that.
• 25:48
  Maybe I should go down that rabbit hole.
• 25:50
  But really, I mean, from my perspective, you're not in a rabbit hole.
• 25:55
  You have a niche of collecting, you know, University of Tennessee.
• 25:58
  And I mean, that is something that's very admirable that you can just stick to.
• 26:03
  To that because you have somebody like me, like, I'll collect something.
• 26:06
  I'll say, boy, that's nice.
• 26:07
  And they'll see something shiny over here.
• 26:09
  That's totally different era, genre, team, and like.
• 26:12
  Well, I like that now.
• 26:13
  And,.
• 26:14
  Yeah, I.
• 26:14
  Guess I have a mishmash, but.
• 26:16
  Well, I guess I've collected a lot of things over the years.
• 26:18
  You know, I started out kind of like many kids with baseball cards and.
• 26:23
  And.
• 26:23
  And.
• 26:24
  And ultimately the tenant.
• 26:26
  Collecting the history of Tennessee football has become my passion, I think, as you can tell.
• 26:30
  Yeah, right.
• 26:31
  So what.
• 26:32
  What is the oldest item or relic that you have in your collection?
• 26:37
  I got a little.
• 26:37
  I've got a little bit of.
• 26:40
  I've got a few different things from kind of right around 1900.
• 26:43
  I've got a team photo from 1905.
• 26:46
  I've got a program from 1903.
• 26:49
  It's just really interesting.
• 26:50
  In the south, for reasons that are unclear, the early stuff just doesn't exist.
• 26:58
  I mean, you know, like, you know, Rutgers.
• 27:01
  Rutgers played in the first football game in 1869.
• 27:04
  And.
• 27:05
  And you can find, you know, Ivy League stuff from the 1870s and 1880s.
• 27:10
  But in the south, you know, I mean, if you find anything pre1900, I mean, that's Just really rare.
• 27:17
  I think that's rare anywhere.
• 27:20
  Yeah, I just had a gentleman on the other day that has the only known program from Notre Dame's first game.
• 27:28
  And it was actually, it was a scrimmage as a.
• 27:30
  An intramural scrimmage where Michigan visited to teach them how to play football.
• 27:34
  And they had us printed out program.
• 27:36
  It's the only one known to exist from 1888.
• 27:38
  I'm like I said, how does something like that survive?
• 27:41
  That's a miracle.
• 27:43
  Just crazy.
• 27:43
  In 1903 is a miracle that you have a program.
• 27:46
  Very much.
• 27:46
  So.
• 27:47
  These are always, you know.
• 27:48
  Yeah, that's.
• 27:49
  That's a really interesting program.
• 27:50
  Tennessee went to the South Carolina State Fair.
• 27:53
  Tennessee played North Carolina and Clemson played South Carolina and Clemson was coached by John Heisman, and he's in that program.
• 28:02
  That's pretty neat item.
• 28:03
  Yeah, that is pretty cool.
• 28:05
  Yeah.
• 28:05
  So.
• 28:06
  Yeah, but the idea of getting some from 1888, I mean.
• 28:09
  Yeah, I can't imagine even getting.
• 28:11
  Finding anything pre 1900.
• 28:13
  I will at some point, but it won't be anytime soon, I'm sure.
• 28:18
  Yeah, I mean, I'm.
• 28:19
  I'm blessed to have family photos from the 1880s and 1860s, so.
• 28:25
  But.
• 28:25
  Wow.
• 28:26
  Yeah.
• 28:26
  I can't imagine football items.
• 28:28
  So these are.
• 28:28
  Those are something you keep, though.
• 28:30
  Pictures of your relatives.
• 28:31
  Right.
• 28:32
  You.
• 28:32
  I sit there and I think about going to football games and you see programs laying all over the place when you're leaving, you know.
• 28:39
  Yeah.
• 28:39
  And the paper stuff, whether it's from the humidity or what it is in the South, I mean, it just.
• 28:43
  It doesn't seem to, you know, persist.
• 28:46
  And, and now, I mean, now Tennessee has.
• 28:49
  Has programs.
• 28:50
  They're really hard to get.
• 28:51
  There's a couple booths that they just distribute them free, but you really can't find them.
• 28:56
  And there are.
• 28:57
  There are no paper tickets anymore.
• 28:59
  That's a.
• 29:00
  Shame.
• 29:01
  It is a shame.
• 29:02
  And.
• 29:02
  Well, I shouldn't say there are no paper.
• 29:04
  There are paper tickets.
• 29:05
  You have to pay.
• 29:06
  Pay extra to get them.
• 29:07
  But everybody kind of looks at you funny when you ask for paper tickets and.
• 29:10
  And they say, oh, they don't have those anymore.
• 29:12
  Yeah, they have them.
• 29:13
  They're just not many left.
• 29:15
  Yeah, those, those old tickets, especially like the pre war tickets, you know, they were works of art.
• 29:21
  I mean, there was some.
• 29:22
  Somebody hand drew these, you know, graphic illustrations on these things most of the time, you know, the more modern tickets, you know, before we got into digital age, were mostly photographs.
• 29:32
  That's.
• 29:32
  Right.
• 29:33
  You know, take some talent, but not as much Talent as drawn.
• 29:35
  You know, football field or a player or coach or something.
• 29:39
  Yeah.
• 29:40
  Now.
• 29:40
  Now the printed one.
• 29:41
  Now the, the paper ones now are just basically Ticketmaster box office kind of.
• 29:46
  Kind of tickets.
• 29:47
  Not nothing special, but if you find one, you're.
• 29:49
  You're really lucky.
• 29:51
  Yeah.
• 29:52
  No.
• 29:52
  Okay.
• 29:53
  I'm looking behind you.
• 29:54
  Yeah.
• 29:55
  What.
• 29:55
  Do you.
• 29:55
  See?
• 29:55
  And off your left side, just left your head there.
• 29:57
  It looks like it might be a football hanging up there above a 33 jersey.
• 30:00
  Is that a.
• 30:01
  That the 33 jersey is.
• 30:03
  Is a gentleman named Lynn Bellis, and that's his Rose bowl jersey from 1945.
• 30:08
  And the, the ball above it is a Rose bowl game ball.
• 30:12
  No kidding.
• 30:14
  Unfortunately, a game ball that from the losing team.
• 30:18
  We, we did not have good, good success in the.
• 30:21
  In our two Rose Bowls in 1940 and 1945 against Southern California.
• 30:27
  Southern Cal just had powerhouse teams in the 40s because the war was going on, and they had, you know, access to plenty of.
• 30:35
  Plenty of.
• 30:38
  Plenty of great athletes because they were on the coast and it turned out badly for the balls.
• 30:46
  Well, before, you know, modern air travel, just think of the advantage that the west coast teams had over the east coast teams, you know, you know, Tennessee especially, they're traveling by train.
• 30:58
  That's probably, what, three, four days maybe by train to get out there.
• 31:03
  And you're jumping off, trying to practice where USC or UCLA or Oregon, whoever's out there, they're just practicing and living life, you know.
• 31:11
  Yeah.
• 31:11
  Tennessee had a.
• 31:12
  Had an otherwise fun trip to the, to the 40 Rose Bowl.
• 31:16
  They, they went through.
• 31:18
  They went through Texas.
• 31:19
  They went through El Paso.
• 31:22
  They stopped in El Paso and practiced at the Sun Bowl.
• 31:25
  Ultimately ended up in Los Angeles.
• 31:27
  There was a Tennessee graduate by the name of Clarence Brown, who was a famous director, who took them all around Hollywood, and there's plenty of photos around of all the movie stars that they spent time with.
• 31:42
  And maybe it had something to do with why they didn't play the game so well.
• 31:47
  It probably is, probably.
• 31:49
  Yeah.
• 31:49
  All right, now I'm looking above.
• 31:51
  Looks like above your window there.
• 31:53
  Looks like.
• 31:53
  Is that a bunch of buttons?
• 31:54
  I'm.
• 31:55
  I'm seeing.
• 31:56
  I got a big collection of buttons.
• 31:58
  The, the issue with buttons is I.
• 32:01
  I just have no idea where to draw the line.
• 32:04
  I guess what I've.
• 32:05
  I guess the rabbit hole with buttons that I've gone down recently is opponent buttons.
• 32:09
  You know, beat the balls or roll.
• 32:12
  I've got a Penn State button that says roll the balls from.
• 32:15
  From.
• 32:15
  From 1971, several Notre Dame buttons.
• 32:20
  You know, beat the Irish and things like that.
• 32:23
  But.
• 32:24
  But some of the early buttons are.
• 32:25
  Are really interesting and really cool.
• 32:28
  I'm just running out of space to keep them all.
• 32:30
  No, they all sound pretty cool.
• 32:31
  Maybe you need to put another window in or something in there.
• 32:33
  Yeah, that'd be a good idea.
• 32:35
  Of course, I don't know where you'd put that.
• 32:37
  I.
• 32:37
  Know you have a door to get out.
• 32:38
  You might be trapped in there.
• 32:39
  Yeah, you can see.
• 32:40
  You can see it's blacked out over there, so.
• 32:42
  So the sunlight doesn't damage anything.
• 32:45
  Yeah, that's very cool.
• 32:47
  So, you know, do you have anything that you're.
• 32:50
  That Holy Grail that you're trying to chase down that you want, you know, you have to divulge any secrets if you're onto something.
• 32:57
  But is there something, like, from a certain era?
• 32:59
  There's nothing in particular I'm on.
• 33:01
  On to right now, but yeah, there's several things that.
• 33:04
  In the.
• 33:05
  In the pre1920s, they had.
• 33:07
  They had some team blankets that have a large orange tee on them, and I'd love to find one of those someday.
• 33:14
  Oh, wow.
• 33:15
  That would be cool.
• 33:16
  Yeah.
• 33:16
  I'm always looking for anything related to General.
• 33:19
  You.
• 33:19
  Can maybe hang that on your ceiling or something.
• 33:21
  You know, what space you have left.
• 33:23
  I mean, it looked really good over there in that window.
• 33:25
  You know, I just.
• 33:25
  Oh, there you go.
• 33:27
  A nice rod up.
• 33:28
  And I'd have a great space for it.
• 33:30
  Yeah.
• 33:31
  But I'm all.
• 33:32
  I'm always looking for anything related to.
• 33:34
  Related to General Neyland.
• 33:35
  He's, you know, he just had such an influence on Tennessee football, and.
• 33:40
  And it's a.
• 33:41
  Just a.
• 33:43
  A huge mentor to all of us that I'm always looking for anything related to.
• 33:48
  To him.
• 33:49
  I'm always looking.
• 33:50
  I would love to find an early friction jersey, you know, the.
• 33:54
  Friction.
• 33:55
  Strips.
• 33:56
  The friction strips, yeah.
• 33:57
  And the.
• 33:57
  In the early 20s, they put, I think, leather friction strips on the jerseys to help them catch the ball, and those are just so rare.
• 34:07
  To help them hold on to the ball, too.
• 34:10
  Yeah.
• 34:10
  So don't fumble.
• 34:12
  Hold it tight to your chest, you know,.
• 34:13
  And I've never seen.
• 34:15
  I've never seen a Tennessee one.
• 34:16
  I would love to find one.
• 34:18
  Yeah, that.
• 34:18
  That would be interesting.
• 34:19
  I wonder if they had, like, in the shape of a T or something.
• 34:22
  I don't know.
• 34:22
  We'll have to find that out.
• 34:23
  Yeah, there's.
• 34:24
  There's images out.
• 34:25
  There's.
• 34:26
  Well, AI redid one for me, and.
• 34:29
  And I mean, who you can't tell with black and white, you know, I mean, so maybe they were orange.
• 34:34
  I don't know.
• 34:36
  AI made a nice version with them looking orange, and so I don't know.
• 34:39
  Well, you have a 1933 jersey that's pretty orange or that you showed us or 1936.
• 34:45
  Yeah,.
• 34:46
  Yeah,.
• 34:46
  Yeah,.
• 34:48
  Maybe they were.
• 34:48
  Yeah.
• 34:49
  I didn't realize they were that orange.
• 34:50
  You know, back then, you, you get so used to seeing these old photos in black and white that you, you know, your absence of color.
• 34:57
  So I'm kind of shocked when I see one in person, I guess.
• 35:00
  But,.
• 35:00
  Yeah, I have an all American.
• 35:03
  There's a photo of Bowden Wyatt with this holding, holding his All American blanket.
• 35:08
  And when I first saw an all American blanket, I had no idea they were red because you can't tell it from black and white photos, obviously.
• 35:14
  Oh, really?
• 35:15
  Yeah, I didn't know that either.
• 35:17
  Yeah, it's really interesting.
• 35:18
  Yeah.
• 35:19
  Oh, very cool.
• 35:20
  Very cool.
• 35:21
  But, well, you have anything like, maybe more modern that's a prize possession that you can tell us.
• 35:28
  A little bit?
• 35:29
  I don't, I don't know.
• 35:30
  It's, I don't collect a lot of the newer stuff.
• 35:34
  I collect a little bit, but I prefer to kind of, you know, live in the 30s.
• 35:37
  You want that vintage.
• 35:39
  I.
• 35:39
  Like.
• 35:39
  The.
• 35:39
  Vintage stuff.
• 35:40
  I get.
• 35:41
  It.
• 35:41
  I have a little bit of Peyton Manning stuff.
• 35:43
  I have a little bit.
• 35:43
  We won a national championship in 1998.
• 35:46
  And so I have some stuff related to that game.
• 35:49
  I have a game ball, but.
• 35:51
  And I have some jerseys from around, around the late 90s and early 2000s.
• 35:56
  And I don't collect much, you know, currently from the current, current years.
• 36:01
  At some point, you know, maybe on the, in the, in the future, I will, but not a whole lot, but a little bit here and there.
• 36:08
  Yeah, I, I don't blame you.
• 36:10
  I get it.
• 36:10
  I, I mean, there's something about nostalgic pre World War II football that just, you know, sings.
• 36:17
  I, I, I live in that era.
• 36:19
  I love the 1920s and.
• 36:20
  Oh, I think it's fabulous.
• 36:22
  It's.
• 36:22
  Just.
• 36:22
  A fascinating time to, to read about and I think you've had Tim Brown on before and,.
• 36:29
  Oh, every Tuesday.
• 36:30
  Tim's been on for the last three years.
• 36:31
  We talked.
• 36:32
  Yeah.
• 36:32
  And Tim's.
• 36:33
  Just.
• 36:33
  Fascinating to read his blogs and, and just, I mean, yeah, I mean, the depth of his knowledge is just amazing.
• 36:40
  It sure is.
• 36:41
  Yeah.
• 36:41
  Definitely right there.
• 36:42
  Yeah.
• 36:43
  Yeah,.
• 36:43
  Yeah.
• 36:44
  If I could, If I get 1% of his brain, that would be great.
• 36:47
  Right.
• 36:48
  I'm blessed I get to talk to him every week, so it's.
• 36:50
  I.
• 36:50
  Didn't realize he's.
• 36:51
  On.
• 36:51
  Yeah, I get, I get educated every week and so is the audience.
• 36:54
  So.
• 36:54
  Yeah, we love having Tim on.
• 36:56
  Wow.
• 36:56
  Yeah, well, we, we have loved having you on too, Bill, and we really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your collection, you know, pieces of collection with us and just giving us all this orange eye candy behind
• 37:07
  you.
• 37:08
  That's been fantastic, too.
• 37:10
  And the stories and, and sharing, you know, some of these with General Nyland and, and some of the ways that Tennessee played football and some of the stories you have on collecting.
• 37:20
  Really appreciate you coming on and sharing that with us today and appreciate you preserving that Tennessee football history.
• 37:26
  Well, it's my pleasure.
• 37:28
  I really appreciate you having me on, Darren.
• 37:31
  That's all the football history we have today, folks.
• 37:33
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• 37:38
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• 37:50
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• 37:52
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• 37:58
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• 37:58
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• 37:59
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• 38:04
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• 38:12
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• 38:17
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