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Bonus: Taking Jesus to Work with Melissa McCormick · Finding God at Work

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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This is Finding God at Work.
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Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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isn't just a podcast.
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It's also an online course.
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Check it out at findinggodatwork.org.
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Today we have a special bonus episode with
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a guest, Melissa McCormick.
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Melissa is an author.
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She's going to share a little bit about
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her story today from her 2022 book, Grace
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and Salt.
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She's also an executive coach, and just really
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excited to have you with us today, Melissa.
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Thanks for being here.
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Oh, yeah.
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It's totally my pleasure.
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It's been a God thing, our relationship and
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how we met.
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Yes, yes.
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I'm so glad we've had the chance to
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connect.
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So for our listeners who don't know you,
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just as kind of a get to know
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you question, what helps you find God at
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work on a normal workday?
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Well, and we talked about this earlier, and
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that is if I let him, right?
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So I have to be intentional with finding
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him.
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I try to keep time open for prayer.
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But then I've been most recently really watching
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for him in the people that I meet,
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the interactions, you're part of that story.
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If I'm not intentional about it, then I
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pull back into the human side of me
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and think that I know better.
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So that's really what I'm trying to do.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Just being attentive to the people around you
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with a kind of intentional spirit.
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Exactly.
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It makes such a big difference.
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Yeah.
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I was just talking with a friend of
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mine about, there's a passage in one of
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Andy Crouch's books where he talks about walking
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through the airport and just thinking the phrase
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image bearer as he saw each face in
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the crowd, you know, image bearer, image bearer,
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image bearer.
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I love that.
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Yeah, that's something that's helped me just like,
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can I have that posture in whatever interaction
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I'm having?
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And in that same vein, I've been trying
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to live my day as this is my
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mission today or this is my assignment.
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So that it's like, I'm more like a
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detective trying to find out what my assignment
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is for the day.
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And then that kind of changes your mindset.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So rewinding to kind of your career, you
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had a significant career with the Taylor Company
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in Rockton, Illinois.
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And could you just tell us about what
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you did there, how it started and kind
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of how it developed for you?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I was a Spanish major and a psych
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minor.
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And what are you going to do with
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that?
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So I ended up accepting a position at
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Taylor as an entry level and I was
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shipping ice cream machines to Latin America.
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So I didn't care what I was going
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to do, I just knew I wanted to
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speak Spanish.
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And with that, I fell in love with
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international trade and international business.
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Yeah.
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So Taylor, I didn't even know they existed.
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And they're like soft serve ice cream machines,
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right?
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Soft serve ice cream machines, frozen beverage, frozen
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dessert, cooking equipment, anything for the commercial food
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service industry, frozen or cooking.
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And that career spanned 32 years.
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And so I started entry level and then
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worked my way up and through the organization
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until my final position was senior vice president
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of global sales and marketing.
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Okay.
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So it was a great position, great job,
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high stress, traveled all over the world.
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It truly was amazing.
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And I was able to work with some
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really good friends of mine, so it was
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fun.
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And how did your walk with Jesus connect
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or not connect with your work kind of
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in those early years as you were climbing
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the corporate ladder?
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Yeah.
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I was very involved with my church and
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I was the, I don't know if many
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of your listeners may be able to relate
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to this, but I was the unspoken youth
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director.
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Okay.
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And so I decided that I wanted to
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go on mission trips.
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My daughter was 11 or 12 at the
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time and I didn't want her to go
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by herself.
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So I went with and I got addicted
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to that youth mission.
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So I led 10 mission trips over my
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time at that particular church.
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And in doing that, my business life, so
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my boss was super supportive.
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So I would take vacation and go on
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those mission trips and he never bothered me.
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He knew what I was doing.
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It was always, unless you do what you
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need to do.
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And but I never really connected the two
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parts of my life.
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It's like being on mission is going on
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a mission trip with my church and then
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doing my job is doing my job.
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Yes.
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Two different worlds.
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Exactly.
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That's exactly right.
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And so I felt like what happened was
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I'm on a mission trip.
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I'm in Oklahoma.
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It's really hot.
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And the last night I always ask the
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kids, what is it that you learned this
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week that you're going to bring back to
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Rockford to make Rockford a better place?
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And this young man named Ethan, who totally
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changed my life, looked at me and said,
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I don't know, Melissa, what are you going
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to do?
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And I went, well, my goodness, Ethan, great
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question.
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Right?
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I mean, he's always answered a question with
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a question, but he was right.
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Yeah.
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And so I told him, I said, Ethan,
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this is what I do.
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When I leave my driveway, it takes 12
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minutes to get from my driveway to Taylor's
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parking lot and I would pray all the
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way.
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Then I put the car in park and
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I'd get out, I'd lock the doors and
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I'd leave Jesus in the car.
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So I said, Ethan, I'm going to bring
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Jesus to work with me.
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I mean, literally bring him, hold his hand
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and bring him into work and I'm going
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to read the Bible every day that I
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can and I'm going to journal.
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And so I did that for a year.
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Nobody knew, you know, right?
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I was very careful.
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It's not like you were being super verbal
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about it.
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And honestly, nobody, everybody knew I was a
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Christian.
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Everybody knew that I was in the mission
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field and they would donate when I was
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fundraising and things like that.
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Sure.
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But I also wanted to be very careful.
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I was an executive and didn't want, you
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know, any of that stuff.
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But in doing so, when I read the
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Bible, every verse that I read or journaled
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on that particular day, I could apply to
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a leadership decision or experience that I needed
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to hear that.
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Whether it was a difficult conversation with an
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employee or it was a strategic decision that
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we were making as a company, whatever it
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was, it always fit.
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It was amazing.
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Although it shouldn't be, but it was, it
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was amazing, right?
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And so I would come home and tell
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my husband this and finally this went on
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for a year.
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And then my husband said, Melissa, you need
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to write a book.
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I'm like, I don't know how to write
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a book.
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And he's like, no, no, no, I'm serious.
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And Mike isn't the kind that ever gave
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me career advice.
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So when he said that, like he was
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always there for counsel if I had a
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question or whatever like, you know, as a
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spouse, but he never said, Melissa, you need
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to do this.
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And because he said that, I listened.
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And so I thought, okay, is this God
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speaking through Mike?
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Yeah.
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And, and so then just that whole year
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of reading the Bible at work and bringing
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Jesus to work with me was a freedom
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that I never had before because I didn't
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look at the Bible as my leadership guidebook
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until I spent that year reading.
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Yeah.
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I love that image of, of leaving Jesus
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behind in the car.
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I feel like so often that's what I
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do too, right?
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I got my prayer podcast with me, but
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the minute that I closed the door behind
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me, I'm thinking about my email inbox, you
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know, I'm hitting the ground running.
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And yet Jesus invites us into something different.
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And so I love that you had that
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experience and that it was an interior experience.
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It wasn't about doing different things, so to
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speak, but doing things differently and realizing that
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you could live out your faith in the
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context of your everyday work.
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That's really beautiful.
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As, as you wrote the book, was there
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anything that sort of like became clearer for
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you just as you kind of did the
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work of, of writing and communicating it to
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other people in terms of what you wanted
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to share?
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Well, you know, the title of the book,
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I struggled with what are you going to
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title this book, right?
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So I didn't know how to write a
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book.
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So I spent a year trying to, you
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know, and I wrote every, every week and,
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and then you had to, you had to
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title it and I struggled and struggled and
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struggled.
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And what the verse that I learned early
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on that really helped me with my relationships
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was Colossians 4, 6, which says, and I'll
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just paraphrase, but basically it says you should
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have all of your conversations filled with grace,
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like every single conversation, not just some of
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them, all of them filled with grace, but
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seasoned with salt, salt being truth, right?
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That way you know how to speak to
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everyone.
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So when I learned that formula and I
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just call it GNS and I wrote GNS
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on everything because with, with my employees, like
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my, my direct reports, I was pretty salty.
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Like I was, I didn't treat them the
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way that I was treating my customers.
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And that was a big lesson that I
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learned.
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And then when it was came to my
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customers, I was super graceful, like meaning I
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didn't like to tell them the, like, I
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didn't want to say the word no or
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we can't do that.
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And so I had a leadership style of
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just, or communication style of beating around the
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bush.
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Yeah.
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And so when I learned grace and salt,
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I'm like, well, that's the formula.
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So I have to, when it comes to
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my employees, I need to listen to understand
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first and still give one of them whatever
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the message is, but I'm wrapping it in
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grace based on their circumstances and not based
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on mine.
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And then when it came to my customers,
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well, I still need to tell them straight
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up, here's what's going on, but yet adapting
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it again or adopt, you know, wrapping that
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in grace.
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So that was my biggest, um, kind of
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aha moment.
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And so there was a day we were
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almost going to publish it and I still
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needed to, the, the title.
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And I, all of a sudden I was
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actually in the shower and I'm like, Oh,
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Oh, for goodness sakes, Melissa, grace and salt
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is the perfect title because that is the
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lesson that I lived every day.
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And I still do.
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Yeah.
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I still do.
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Yeah.
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I've just been reflecting about leaders I really
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respect and some of the things they do
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well.
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And something that occurred to me recently was
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they're good at holding people accountable, but doing
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it in a gracious way, you know, like
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that, that healthy leader is both high grace
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and high accountability versus like the quote unquote
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grace, which is really just being a pushover
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or the graceless accountability that's being a taskmaster.
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That combination is really what helps people flourish.
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Um, and that's just, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Beautiful to see.
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Yeah.
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So, so then bring us closer into, to
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your work now, what, what kind of grew
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out of you writing the book and the
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season of labor that you're doing now?
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I decided in, um, April of 2019 where
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I left my corporate career and all my
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friends and all of that, which was, um,
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really scary, but I did it knowing that,
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you know, God was pushing me.
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Like you had that nudge, you had that
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whisper, it wasn't so much of a whisper.
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He was pushing me out the door and,
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um, I knew that I would never publish
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this book if I stayed in that role.
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And so my husband and I went through
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all the finances and all the things and,
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and we're like, okay, we were going to
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do this thing.
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And um, so when the book was published,
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um, I launched it in January of 2022,
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I started a consultant firm in 2019, but
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it wasn't solidified.
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When the book was published, all of a
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sudden everything just came into place, right?
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And, and the book, the whole story about
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the book and the back of it, it'll
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show you all the people and talents that
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God put in my way when I needed
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them at the right time so that the
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book could be published was an incredible story.
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Um, but then, um, Grace and Salt Leadership
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Academy was born.
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And so today I am an executive coach
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and I help, I help executives, um, kind
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of get out of their own way.
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One of the things that, that I see
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is that we're busy doing all the things
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and we're in the weeds and sometimes maybe
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director level, it's hard to get you to
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break through into the executive realm or into
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the boardroom because you're doing all the things
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and you need to learn how to delegate
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them.
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You need to learn how to prioritize, strategically
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think, those types of things.
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So that's where I help executives figure that
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out, but then also stay in their executive
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lane.
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And what I mean by that is sometimes
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we're comfortable with, maybe we came from the
12:48
sales side of the business.
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So then we, we like to hang out
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in the sales and still do sales, even
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though we have a sales team, right?
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How do we make sure that we are
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really living up to our role and leaving
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our past roles behind, even though they're our
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comfort zone.
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So, um, yeah, that's what we're focusing on
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now.
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As you've stepped into that role of coaching
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and kind of helping others navigate their career,
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how has Jesus gone with you?
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What does it look like to bring Jesus
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into that work today?
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Oh my gosh.
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Um, that's interesting because, you know, I did
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all of this.
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I brought my world together at corporate, at
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Taylor.
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And then when I came out on my
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own, I went through an identity crisis because
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I was like large and in charge.
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And then now I'm a solopreneur.
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So all of that.
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And.
13:38
It's like, there's nobody to make copies for
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you anymore.
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Right.
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You gotta make your own copies.
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I had a team and now I don't,
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and that's okay.
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Right.
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I don't, I don't want anybody to think
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that I was, you know, above anything, but
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the challenge was, is that I separated my
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lives again.
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And I went to, you know, I didn't
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really talk about my faith.
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I talked about, about how I could help
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you and how I could, you know, um,
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streamline this process or, or whatever it was
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until recently where I was like, this is
14:05
silly, Melissa, right?
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You, you need to be one person again.
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And so now, um, I am, and he
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is, um, he's amazing how he is showing
14:17
up.
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So, um, just you are a perfect example.
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I've met a friend who is an acquaintance,
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right.
14:24
Friends of both of us, but we didn't
14:26
know each other.
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And, um, so he is just putting people
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in my path and I'm accepting those people.
14:33
Right.
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I'm recognizing that, oh, this is, this is
14:36
somebody that I need to talk to.
14:38
And we either collaborate or I need to
14:40
help, or they can help me or whatever
14:42
that looks like, because life sure is lonely
14:44
when you do it alone.
14:45
Yeah.
14:45
Yeah.
14:46
Well, it's just a joy to hear how
14:48
you've kind of made that room for that
14:51
interior life and that discernment to welcome how
14:54
Jesus is leading you even in this, this
14:55
new adventure as it unfolds.
14:57
Thank you.
14:58
Yeah.
14:58
I wish we could keep talking for a
15:00
long time, but, um, would you be willing
15:02
to just close us in prayer for our
15:04
listeners?
15:04
If anything you said might resonate with them
15:06
and what God's doing in their life.
15:07
Yeah, absolutely.
15:08
Um, dear heavenly father, thank you so much
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for, for Chris and for his podcast and
15:13
for the listeners out today, that if there's
15:15
anything that, that I've said or that I,
15:18
um, you know, that I will say in
15:20
the future, Lord, I just pray that, um,
15:22
that they hear me and, um, that I
15:25
am, my words are your words.
15:27
That's, that's my goal.
15:28
And I want to do everything that, that,
15:30
uh, that you want me to do so
15:32
that I can be that vessel and, um,
15:34
share with the listeners or with whomever, um,
15:38
what you want me to share.
15:39
But I just thank you so much for
15:42
the blessings that you've given us here and
15:45
Chris and his podcast.
15:47
And, um, so looking forward to what's next
15:49
in Jesus name.
15:50
Thanks for listening.
15:56
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15:58
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16:00
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