Transcript

Poisoned Ivies · Mom Wars

0:01
Speaker 1: From the front lines of the Mom Wars. Here's Bethany
0:04
Speaker 1: Mandel and Kara Kennedy.
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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast.
0:12
Speaker 2: I am your co host Bethany Mandel. Sadly, I am
0:15
Speaker 2: still not joined by my regular co host Kara, who
0:18
Speaker 2: has this perfect excuse of the Mom Wars that she
0:21
Speaker 2: had a baby, and so she's still abandoned me. But
0:24
Speaker 2: I am joined by one of my favorite people these days.
0:28
Speaker 2: I can't believe she's taken the time to sit down
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Speaker 2: and talk with us today because she's traversing the whole
0:32
Speaker 2: country talking about her best selling new book. Joined by
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Speaker 2: Representative Elis Staphonic from my home state of New York,
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Speaker 2: and she is the author of the best selling book,
0:42
Speaker 2: Poisoned Ives. It came out I think a week ago, right.
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Speaker 3: Yes, it did, Poisoned Ivies. It's a best seller and
0:48
Speaker 3: just great, great interest in this book across the country.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and so I reviewed it for the New
0:54
Speaker 2: York Post. I think a week ago.
0:55
Speaker 4: We had it.
0:56
Speaker 2: We had a long sit down conversation, and then you're
0:58
Speaker 2: spending even more time with me, which is crazy that
1:00
Speaker 2: I love it. So I want to get into a
1:02
Speaker 2: little bit first off, because I just am so fascinated.
1:05
Speaker 2: We have kids who are about the same age. I
1:08
Speaker 2: think your son is four. Yes, first of all, it's
1:11
Speaker 2: embarrassing to me that I haven't accomplished pretty much nothing
1:15
Speaker 2: in my life in comparison because we're basically the same age.
1:19
Speaker 2: How have you managed to be the highest ranking woman
1:22
Speaker 2: in Congress and also the mother of a young child
1:26
Speaker 2: who and you had to go through the whole pregnancy
1:28
Speaker 2: and everything. How did you get to this point?
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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, Bethany, you have been tremendous in
1:32
Speaker 3: terms of your leadership and what you've accomplished, not only
1:35
Speaker 3: this podcast, but all of your effective advocacy on Capitol Hill.
1:39
Speaker 3: The body of work that you have published has been
1:42
Speaker 3: just amazing.
1:42
Speaker 4: So I've watched you from afar.
1:44
Speaker 3: And know that it is a juggle for every mom
1:47
Speaker 3: as they work to prioritize their family as well as
1:51
Speaker 3: continue to achieve and grow whatever their personal and professional
1:54
Speaker 3: goals may be. So don't underestimate yourself, and what you've
1:57
Speaker 3: accomplished is great, which is why I wanted to talk
1:59
Speaker 3: to you about this book and at this podcast. So
2:02
Speaker 3: how has it you know, it's been interesting when I
2:04
Speaker 3: was first elected to Congress, I was not married and
2:07
Speaker 3: I was not yet a mom. I was the youngest
2:09
Speaker 3: woman ever elected to Congress at the time. This is
2:11
Speaker 3: way back in twenty fourteen, pre Trump, who of course
2:15
Speaker 3: ran for president in twenty sixteen.
2:16
Speaker 4: I flipped a district.
2:18
Speaker 3: My now husband was my boyfriend then and we became
2:21
Speaker 3: engaged a couple of years after I had been serving
2:24
Speaker 3: in Congress, and I had my first child in the
2:27
Speaker 3: midst of when I ran for congressional leadership. And I
2:30
Speaker 3: will tell you when I was first elected. Kathy mac
2:33
Speaker 3: morris Rogers, who was a previous Republican leader in the House,
2:37
Speaker 3: I actually remember when she was pregnant with her third child.
2:40
Speaker 3: So I like to always highlight the importance of role
2:43
Speaker 3: models that you can see in your day to day
2:45
Speaker 3: life professionally as being very formative, because for me, I
2:49
Speaker 3: thought she can do that. I bet you know someday
2:52
Speaker 3: I might be able to do that too. I would
2:54
Speaker 3: also say when I ran for House Republican Conference Chair,
2:57
Speaker 3: which was my first opportunity at the leadership time, Kevin McCarthy,
3:02
Speaker 3: who was Speaker at that time, knew or was leader
3:05
Speaker 3: for we were in the minority, knew that I was
3:07
Speaker 3: expecting Sam, my first child, and that was interesting going
3:10
Speaker 3: through that process as I started becoming more and more
3:13
Speaker 3: pregnant in the public eye with photographs. But people have
3:17
Speaker 3: been overwhelmingly supportive. It has been a juggle, like it
3:20
Speaker 3: as for every working mom. The day I had Sam,
3:23
Speaker 3: which was August twenty seventh, this was in twenty twenty one.
3:27
Speaker 3: This was during around the same time, almost to the
3:30
Speaker 3: weekend of the catastrophic withdrawal from Afghanistan under the Biden administration,
3:35
Speaker 3: and as my role as the conference chair for Republicans,
3:39
Speaker 3: I was literally the day before I was scheduled to
3:42
Speaker 3: give birth to Sam, hosted a conference call with former
3:45
Speaker 3: Secretary of State Mike Pompei with all the Republican members.
3:48
Speaker 3: I did that until ten pm. This is me knowing
3:51
Speaker 3: that I was headed to the hospital the next day
3:53
Speaker 3: at five am, and of course I said to Kevin McCarthy,
3:56
Speaker 3: I said, well, I'm going to go now because you
3:59
Speaker 3: know tomorrow i'm Sam, which you know, when I take
4:02
Speaker 3: a step back reflection, that's pretty unbelievable and experience in
4:05
Speaker 3: the story. I can't wait to tell my son. And
4:07
Speaker 3: then in the next couple of days after I gave
4:10
Speaker 3: birth to Sam. I'm on the Armed Services Committee and
4:13
Speaker 3: I have major provisions in the National Defense Bill, so
4:16
Speaker 3: we had a mark up at that time. Those traditionally
4:19
Speaker 3: go till one, two, three am, and I was able
4:22
Speaker 3: to participate via zoom. But I was there for that
4:25
Speaker 3: markup with Sam in my arms, delivering results for my
4:29
Speaker 3: district and particularly given my role as a senior member
4:33
Speaker 3: on that committee. So it's been very interesting in the
4:35
Speaker 3: early days. I have a great, very supportive family. My
4:41
Speaker 3: husband works, but we juggled this.
4:43
Speaker 4: We have supportive family.
4:44
Speaker 3: Members who helped us get through sort of those the
4:48
Speaker 3: early juggle of the first few months, and then I
4:50
Speaker 3: would say it's been a real privilege and honor to
4:54
Speaker 3: kind of introduce this first hand civic education to Sam.
4:57
Speaker 4: He knows how to vote on the House floor.
4:59
Speaker 3: Red green, he's voted for Speaker of the House, and
5:03
Speaker 3: he's had a real front row seat to this. And
5:06
Speaker 3: it's made me a better policy maker, which is one
5:09
Speaker 3: of the reasons why I wrote this book, which is
5:10
Speaker 3: focused on education, and I talked about Sam in this
5:12
Speaker 3: book not only dedicated to him, but sort of how
5:16
Speaker 3: I conduct congressional oversight while also for example, putting Sam
5:19
Speaker 3: to bed the night before and then turning to prepare.
5:21
Speaker 3: So that's a long winded answer, but I think it's
5:23
Speaker 3: worthy of telling these stories because I will tell you
5:27
Speaker 3: some members who were elected after me, like Kat Cammick,
5:30
Speaker 3: for example, she said to me, seeing you in that
5:33
Speaker 3: role when you had a baby inspired me that I
5:36
Speaker 3: can juggle all of this, So very similar to my
5:38
Speaker 3: perspective with kathmic Morris Rogers.
5:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:41
Speaker 2: One of the parts that I loved about your book
5:43
Speaker 2: you talked about, obviously that huge moment of you asked
5:47
Speaker 2: this very plain question, do you believe that genocide is
5:51
Speaker 2: a violate? What was the exact question, do you believe
5:54
Speaker 2: that genocide is Does.
5:55
Speaker 3: Calling for the genocide of Jews? Violate your university's code
5:58
Speaker 3: of conduct? And assumed they would say yes, and of
6:02
Speaker 3: course the world heard. They said it depends on the context.
6:05
Speaker 2: So that was the most incredible moment. But what I
6:08
Speaker 2: loved about the book was that we kind of got
6:10
Speaker 2: a backdoors seat into that moment because you said you
6:15
Speaker 2: had the worst cold of your or it was a flu,
6:18
Speaker 2: and you're in the middle of this. I love hearing
6:21
Speaker 2: these stories of like members of Congress, They're just like us.
6:25
Speaker 2: What was that whole process like, because you were there
6:30
Speaker 2: the whole hearing, not just you didn't just air drop in.
6:34
Speaker 2: Can you share with my listeners a little bit about
6:36
Speaker 2: what normally happens versus what actually happened.
6:39
Speaker 3: Yes? Absolutely so. This was in December of twenty twenty three,
6:43
Speaker 3: and as so many moms know, particularly for your first
6:46
Speaker 3: child at that time, Sam was in Sam was in
6:49
Speaker 3: a daycare program, and I would get sick.
6:51
Speaker 4: I'm a new mom, and he would bring.
6:53
Speaker 3: Home the colds and the germs and the flu, and
6:55
Speaker 3: I happen to be so so sick leading into that
6:58
Speaker 3: hearing where if you go back and look footage, you
7:00
Speaker 3: can see the Kleenex box right next to me. After
7:03
Speaker 3: I read that, Yes, throughout the whole hearing, So I
7:06
Speaker 3: knew this was going to be an important hearing. I
7:08
Speaker 3: powered through like so many other professionals, just working professionals,
7:13
Speaker 3: when you have to get through whatever your illness is.
7:17
Speaker 3: And I think what people may not realize about congressional
7:20
Speaker 3: hearings is usually members don't sit there for the entire hearing.
7:23
Speaker 3: You go in for your five minutes of question, and
7:25
Speaker 3: then you pop out to go to your other meetings
7:27
Speaker 3: that day. I cleared my schedule that day to focus
7:30
Speaker 3: on this hearing and not only asked my first five
7:33
Speaker 3: minutes of questions, but was able to do follow ups
7:36
Speaker 3: because Republican members started yielding me their time and the
7:39
Speaker 3: question that I just shared with your listeners that was
7:42
Speaker 3: not my prepared question. Bethany, I had spent a huge
7:45
Speaker 3: amount of time doing research, writing different lines of questioning,
7:48
Speaker 3: and I thought to myself, how can I make this
7:50
Speaker 3: the most direct and obvious way to answer yes in
7:55
Speaker 3: a morally direct question, and these university presidents totally blew it.
7:59
Speaker 3: I was astonished in real time. But the book is
8:02
Speaker 3: is a very interesting behind the scenes of day to
8:05
Speaker 3: day for a member of Congress, particularly if you're in leadership,
8:10
Speaker 3: because I, you know, host the weekly press conference for
8:13
Speaker 3: House Republicans and in the daily meetings with the rest
8:16
Speaker 3: of the leadership team. So I hope that is a
8:19
Speaker 3: riveting part of this account as well. Leading up to
8:22
Speaker 3: the hearing itself. In the Congressional Oversight.
8:24
Speaker 2: That was personally what I loved. The anecdote about you
8:28
Speaker 2: having the flu and having to power through that hearing
8:31
Speaker 2: because your two year old gave you the flu. I
8:33
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, this is this, everyone is everyone is
8:36
Speaker 2: the same. At the end of the day, we all
8:38
Speaker 2: put our pants on and we all get sick from
8:40
Speaker 2: our two year olds. So you had mit Harvard and whatever,
8:47
Speaker 2: pen you are a Harvard graduate. What was that like?
8:52
Speaker 3: Do you?
8:53
Speaker 2: So? I went to Rutgers, and when anti semitism happens
8:56
Speaker 2: in the news with Rutgers, which unfortunately is very frequent,
8:59
Speaker 2: I feel like I have the knife out more because
9:01
Speaker 2: I expect better from my alma mater. How do you
9:04
Speaker 2: feel about having Rocker, having Harvard be in the hot
9:08
Speaker 2: seat for you and how did you feel about how
9:10
Speaker 2: they performed and have performed.
9:12
Speaker 3: I agree with your assessment that I expected so much better,
9:15
Speaker 3: and I think back to my experience there as an
9:17
Speaker 3: undergraduate twenty years ago.
9:19
Speaker 4: It was not like this.
9:20
Speaker 3: It was unrecognizable what I was seeing on campus. Yes,
9:24
Speaker 3: of course you saw left leaning. It felt a leftward bias,
9:27
Speaker 3: but not what we're seeing today, which is the explicit
9:31
Speaker 3: skyrocketing of anti Semitism and the refusal to condemn and
9:35
Speaker 3: enforce the rules. So for me, I think what allowed
9:38
Speaker 3: me to ask very effective questions is when you know
9:41
Speaker 3: these universities, when you've experienced it as a student there.
9:44
Speaker 3: You know, for example, the geographic locations if they take
9:47
Speaker 3: over a building or take over the yard. You know
9:49
Speaker 3: the different departments, you know the different rules of the
9:51
Speaker 3: various deans. You're in touch with alumni, with current students.
9:54
Speaker 3: You just know how to navigate. And for me, it
9:57
Speaker 3: allowed me to ask very pacific and well informed questions
10:02
Speaker 3: because I am an alumna of there and new For example,
10:05
Speaker 3: Here's where Harvard Hillel is located, Here's the history of
10:08
Speaker 3: this organization. Here is traditionally how the university did things
10:12
Speaker 3: that and I hold them to a higher standard. I mean,
10:15
Speaker 3: it is inexcusable. Their failure to lead Rutgers was also
10:20
Speaker 3: a major problem. As you pointed out, we had Rutgers
10:23
Speaker 3: at a future hearing because of course, this hearing with Harvard,
10:26
Speaker 3: Penn and MIT lit the fuse that led to the earthquake.
10:30
Speaker 3: And we've had so many subsequent hearings with various university
10:33
Speaker 3: presidents on this crisis ongoing in higher education.
10:37
Speaker 2: Rewinding a little bit back to Harvard, so we talked
10:41
Speaker 2: a little bit. When we talked for my piece about
10:43
Speaker 2: the New York Post, we talked about my friend who
10:45
Speaker 2: used to run the Harvard Hillel same as Andrew Gertreer.
10:47
Speaker 2: He was actually the HILLO director at Rutgers where I went,
10:50
Speaker 2: so he was the only non family member at our wedding.
10:54
Speaker 2: We're very, very close, and he's been telling me for
10:56
Speaker 2: years that Jewish enrollment at Harvard is low lower now
11:01
Speaker 2: than it was when they had literal quotas. Since all
11:04
Speaker 2: of this has happened, and Harvard has really been in
11:07
Speaker 2: the spotlight and you know we're hitting April, have you
11:11
Speaker 2: been hearing murmurings of if that's getting any better now
11:14
Speaker 2: that you know they're admitting hopefully this new class that
11:17
Speaker 2: might actually have to use in it.
11:18
Speaker 3: I actually think this is the next major part of
11:22
Speaker 3: some of the scandals in higher education, and you're starting
11:25
Speaker 3: to see that data be much more widely published. One
11:29
Speaker 3: of the questions that I asked in hearing that was
11:31
Speaker 3: not covered widely, but was a very important question.
11:33
Speaker 4: I believe it gets to the heart of this.
11:35
Speaker 3: Issue is to your point, Harvard Hillel had been compiling
11:41
Speaker 3: data regarding the percentage of Jewish students and it had
11:44
Speaker 3: declined significantly over the past two decades. And it's not
11:48
Speaker 3: just Harvard it's other very elite Ivy League schools as well,
11:53
Speaker 3: where you've seen these numbers fall off a cliff. I
11:56
Speaker 3: believe that the next scandal, as I said, is going
11:59
Speaker 3: to be the anti semitism in the admissions process, which
12:03
Speaker 3: is why the Department of Justice lawsuits, which also are
12:07
Speaker 3: encompassing of admissions data as well, is very, very important
12:11
Speaker 3: to get to the bottom of this. And Harvard unfortunately
12:14
Speaker 3: has a very poor history in this space when they
12:17
Speaker 3: did have quotas or when they did have very explicit
12:21
Speaker 3: anti Semitic admissions processes, and I talk about that in
12:24
Speaker 3: this book. The fact that we're returning back to that
12:27
Speaker 3: era is inexcusable, and frankly, it's not American. But as
12:31
Speaker 3: I said, it's not just Harvard Bethany, it's other institutions
12:33
Speaker 3: as well.
12:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder, you know, looking at the whole scope
12:40
Speaker 2: of those schools that you cover, because in your book
12:42
Speaker 2: you zero in on lots of different universities, and I
12:47
Speaker 2: think what was most troubling, Well, I know what was
12:49
Speaker 2: most troubling to me. When I was reading your book.
12:51
Speaker 2: I came across the name of a kid I grew
12:53
Speaker 2: up with. We were friends in high school. Good friends.
12:57
Speaker 2: And he was the DEI chair at Cornel and his
13:01
Speaker 2: name is Darren Borders, and he immediately after October seventh
13:06
Speaker 2: was making headlines and my focus was on Israel on
13:08
Speaker 2: October tenth, but he was making headlines that he pretty
13:13
Speaker 2: much cheered what happened at I'm sorry I keep saying Rutgers.
13:17
Speaker 2: He cheered what happened in Israel from his perch at Cornell.
13:21
Speaker 2: One of the things that I appreciated was that even
13:24
Speaker 2: though I've been hyper focused on this issue of what's
13:26
Speaker 2: happening on college campuses for Jews, your book is it
13:30
Speaker 2: covers the whole spectrum, from all of these different schools,
13:34
Speaker 2: public and private ivs on down, and it's really terrifying,
13:39
Speaker 2: honestly to see just how widespread it is. You told
13:42
Speaker 2: me in our conversation when we talked about this for
13:45
Speaker 2: The New York Post that your office computers, your servers
13:49
Speaker 2: crashed at some points because you were getting so many emails.
13:53
Speaker 2: Has that gotten any better, especially since you've been doing
13:56
Speaker 2: this book tour.
13:59
Speaker 4: It's a great question.
14:00
Speaker 3: And so that's one of the reasons I wrote this book,
14:02
Speaker 3: Bethany is. I feared that the traditional media would try
14:05
Speaker 3: to brush this real crisis in higher education under the
14:09
Speaker 3: RUG as a few instances, as a few campuses. It
14:12
Speaker 3: was not a few instances at a few campuses. This
14:15
Speaker 3: was widespread and it was systemic within higher education. And
14:20
Speaker 3: to have it all in one volume, because you know,
14:22
Speaker 3: as you know, and as you covered, the investigation took
14:25
Speaker 3: a year. We would have various hearings with different universities,
14:28
Speaker 3: so you had snapshots individually about how bad it was.
14:31
Speaker 3: But to have it in one volume, it is jaw
14:33
Speaker 3: dropping that this happened in the United States of America,
14:37
Speaker 3: let alone anywhere in the world, but in our own
14:39
Speaker 3: country at these very pre eminent, previously prestigious schools. That
14:44
Speaker 3: was one of the reasons I wrote the book is
14:46
Speaker 3: I think it's important not only for today and this
14:48
Speaker 3: turning point of higher education, but for history's sake when
14:52
Speaker 3: we look back at this moment in time. The second
14:54
Speaker 3: part of your question is what was it like in
14:56
Speaker 3: the Congressional Office. I've been at impeachment hearings. I've been
15:00
Speaker 3: as high profile hearings as you can get. Nothing was
15:04
Speaker 3: nothing hit a cultural chord similar to this hearing, and
15:10
Speaker 3: my chief of staff's email would crash daily in the
15:13
Speaker 3: weeks following the hearing, and it was not only students
15:17
Speaker 3: and parents reaching out as whistleblowers for what was happening
15:20
Speaker 3: on their universities, but it was also you know, attacking
15:24
Speaker 3: emails that were very anti Semitic emails, multiple languages.
15:28
Speaker 4: I mean, he couldn't.
15:29
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if he's ever been able
15:30
Speaker 3: to clean out his inbox with all the incoming we
15:32
Speaker 3: got then. But we became essentially the repository for so
15:36
Speaker 3: many of these horrific experiences that students faced on campus,
15:41
Speaker 3: and the investigation put out many of them in the
15:44
Speaker 3: report that was issued by the Education Committee. But I
15:46
Speaker 3: wanted to provide more of a readable and a more
15:52
Speaker 3: personalized not just vignettes of these individual students, but painting
15:58
Speaker 3: a picture of what actually happened and what was so
16:00
Speaker 3: deeply wrong in higher education at this moment.
16:10
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16:47
Speaker 2: I'm sure you were accused of being a Jew three
16:50
Speaker 2: thousand million times over the course of the last two years,
16:54
Speaker 2: but you're not Jewish. Why would you take on this
16:58
Speaker 2: crazy fight when we're not exactly the most beloved people
17:02
Speaker 2: these days in the last two and a half years.
17:04
Speaker 2: Why would a Catholic mom from upstate New York decide like,
17:08
Speaker 2: this is where I'm staking my flag and this is
17:10
Speaker 2: what I'm going to fight on.
17:12
Speaker 3: I get asked that a lot. And I am a Catholic.
17:15
Speaker 3: As you said, I had great parents who raised me
17:19
Speaker 3: with a very strong moral compass, and I also had
17:21
Speaker 3: tremendous teachers in school that taught the horrors of the Holocaust.
17:25
Speaker 3: I went to an all girls' day school. It was
17:27
Speaker 3: right next door to a synagogue in upstate New York.
17:30
Speaker 3: I had many Jewish friends growing up, and I had
17:33
Speaker 3: been I've led on this issue prior to this hearing.
17:37
Speaker 3: I didn't lead because of public attention. I mean, these
17:39
Speaker 3: were legislative wins that I was able to deliver, for example,
17:42
Speaker 3: on Holocaust education, for k through twelve programs on Holocaust
17:47
Speaker 3: survivors and the Older Americans Act, as well as my
17:50
Speaker 3: broad support for the importance of the US alliance and
17:53
Speaker 3: partnership which benefits our national security when it comes to
17:56
Speaker 3: the US in Israel. So it was a culmination policy
18:00
Speaker 3: work that led to this hearing. And I also think
18:03
Speaker 3: it's just an example of one voice standing up for
18:07
Speaker 3: what is right can make a significant impact. And I've
18:10
Speaker 3: been encouraged and thanked by so many Jewish Americans and
18:15
Speaker 3: frankly Jews around the world who have said thank you
18:18
Speaker 3: for speaking up. It is so powerful to have someone
18:22
Speaker 3: who is not Jewish speak up on this issue because
18:25
Speaker 3: it resonates and it's a call for all people to
18:29
Speaker 3: speak up. The other aspect of this, Bethany, is I
18:32
Speaker 3: think anti Semitism is the canary and the coal mine
18:35
Speaker 3: for attacks on its anti Americanism, and it's an attack
18:40
Speaker 3: on Western civilization and our values that we hold deer
18:44
Speaker 3: in this country. So this is an an indicator, sadly,
18:50
Speaker 3: of broader attacks on our society.
18:53
Speaker 2: So you were on the Free Press podcast a couple
18:55
Speaker 2: of days ago when you were talking to Maya. I
18:57
Speaker 2: think that was who you were speaking with, and I
19:01
Speaker 2: appreciated that she asked you this question about sort of
19:03
Speaker 2: the rise of these anti Semitic influencers, whether it be
19:06
Speaker 2: Candae Owans or Tucker Kralsner, all these people, and it
19:08
Speaker 2: feels like they have a really outsized influence, and you
19:13
Speaker 2: I appreciated your answer, and I would love if you
19:15
Speaker 2: would sort of repeat it for my listeners. But then
19:17
Speaker 2: I have a follow up question after that. I've heard
19:20
Speaker 2: from parents who, unbeknownst to them, their kids have fallen
19:23
Speaker 2: down this rabbit hole of following these influencers, and they
19:27
Speaker 2: come to me as sort of a Jewish parent and
19:29
Speaker 2: someone who's out there with mom content, and they say,
19:32
Speaker 2: how do I deprogram my kid? And so I think
19:35
Speaker 2: it's a two part question, like how much influence do
19:37
Speaker 2: you think these influencers have and how do parents prevent
19:41
Speaker 2: their kids from falling down the rabbit holes that these
19:44
Speaker 2: people are digging.
19:45
Speaker 3: It's a great question and I was happy to answer
19:48
Speaker 3: it for the Free Press. I mean, I think the
19:50
Speaker 3: mainstream media gives those individuals outsized influence. The reality is
19:56
Speaker 3: President Trump got himself elected, the American people got himself elected.
20:00
Speaker 3: So for some of these podcast voices, to credit themselves
20:04
Speaker 3: for delivering That's simply not the case. And I think
20:07
Speaker 3: President Trump's very effective pushback on them has been really
20:11
Speaker 3: important as the leader of the Republican Party. And these
20:15
Speaker 3: are some of these individuals have attacked me, Bethany. I
20:18
Speaker 3: mean they've attacked me, and I'm elected. I'm elected by
20:21
Speaker 3: seven hundred thousand constituents by the largest margin in the
20:24
Speaker 3: history of my district with the highest number of votes.
20:26
Speaker 3: So my voters that elect me know where I am
20:29
Speaker 3: on all issues, including this one. So I think there
20:32
Speaker 3: is a tendency in again the left leaning media to
20:36
Speaker 3: try to overemphasize their importance when it's not reflective the reality.
20:40
Speaker 3: I am very concerned if you look at the demographic
20:43
Speaker 3: shift in terms of the position and frankly lack of
20:47
Speaker 3: understanding of younger Americans on this issue. And I talk
20:52
Speaker 3: about this in the book. If you look at TikTok
20:54
Speaker 3: in terms of where they're getting their news, I say
20:57
Speaker 3: news quote unquote that algorithm. It enhances pro Hamas anti
21:02
Speaker 3: Semitic content, and it de emphasizes pro Israel content. That
21:07
Speaker 3: is important for parents to know that, and I think
21:11
Speaker 3: it's very much tied into this new movement among parents
21:15
Speaker 3: in response to the great book The Anxious Generation by
21:18
Speaker 3: Jonathan Hight, of being vigilant about where your kids are
21:23
Speaker 3: getting their content or limiting these screens, you know, completely,
21:28
Speaker 3: particularly as kids get older, and focus on having an
21:32
Speaker 3: understanding of what they're learning and doing the very best
21:35
Speaker 3: you can to maintain what your family's values are. And again,
21:39
Speaker 3: I have a child who's going into kindergarten, so I'm
21:42
Speaker 3: not quite at that point, but we talk about this
21:44
Speaker 3: a lot, my husband and I. I talk about this
21:47
Speaker 3: with my parents, with my peers who are also young parents,
21:50
Speaker 3: about how do you ensure that your child continues to
21:55
Speaker 3: develop and is you know, can have opportunities like learning
21:58
Speaker 3: to code, for example, engineering, but also ensuring that it's
22:02
Speaker 3: not a rabbit hole of this disastrous content that's online. Yeah. No,
22:08
Speaker 3: it's really hard.
22:09
Speaker 2: One of the things that I appreciated from your book
22:11
Speaker 2: was sort of the vignettes of the really remarkable students
22:14
Speaker 2: that have come across your radar and mine as well,
22:16
Speaker 2: students like you know, Harvard's Shabist Custinbaum, really really impressive kid.
22:22
Speaker 2: Sort of the opposite question that I just asked, how
22:25
Speaker 2: do we make sure they don't turn into like my
22:27
Speaker 2: friend Darren Borders, who is the DEI head at Cornell.
22:30
Speaker 2: How do we ensure our kids turn into kids like
22:32
Speaker 2: Shabiscust and Vaum. What sort of through lines did you
22:35
Speaker 2: see when you met all these really impressive college students
22:39
Speaker 2: that you want to carry forth in your you know position,
22:42
Speaker 2: obviously as a member of Congress, but also as a mom.
22:44
Speaker 3: Yes, and I chose This is not a typical political memoir,
22:47
Speaker 3: as you know, this is not the story of Elis Stephonic.
22:50
Speaker 3: This is a snapshot a bit of my educational background
22:53
Speaker 3: and the congressional hearings, But it's really the story of
22:56
Speaker 3: these extraordinary student leaders who, think about it, their age
23:00
Speaker 3: eighteen nineteen twenty, some of them twenty one and older,
23:02
Speaker 3: but mostly in this very young adulthood phase, who had
23:06
Speaker 3: the bravery encouraged to speak out to the United States Congress,
23:09
Speaker 3: to testify in front of us and put together sort
23:12
Speaker 3: of an incredible advocacy organization and it wasn't even formalized,
23:17
Speaker 3: but whistleblowing about what was happening on these campuses. And
23:21
Speaker 3: think about I mean, I think about myself when I
23:23
Speaker 3: was that agent. Yes, I was a successful and a
23:27
Speaker 3: rigorous student, but testifying in front of Congress that is a,
23:31
Speaker 3: you know, an extraordinary step of courage. So I give
23:35
Speaker 3: these kids so much credit. They are the unsung heroes,
23:38
Speaker 3: which is why I try to celebrate them and tell
23:40
Speaker 3: their stories in these books. And many of them continue
23:43
Speaker 3: to lead in this space and our incredible advocates online,
23:47
Speaker 3: incredible advocates in the broader media space, and in some
23:51
Speaker 3: cases they filed successful lawsuits against these institutions for the
23:55
Speaker 3: failure of higher ed universities to protect their civil rights
23:59
Speaker 3: on campus. I think what really stood out is they
24:05
Speaker 3: felt and understood what was happening was so morally wrong,
24:08
Speaker 3: and having the courage to take action despite what some
24:12
Speaker 3: of the attacks from their peers, because listening to these
24:15
Speaker 3: attacks that these kids faced is really just heinous that
24:20
Speaker 3: any student is going through this today. So I think
24:22
Speaker 3: having the courage of your conviction and using your voice
24:26
Speaker 3: in ways that make an impact.
24:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have been so inspired watching so many
24:31
Speaker 2: of these students sort of graduate and move forward and
24:34
Speaker 2: all these things. But I think so much of it
24:36
Speaker 2: is they were raised with such a sense of right
24:40
Speaker 2: and wrong and black and white absolutely that they couldn't
24:45
Speaker 2: not do anything, And what was scary was not necessarily
24:49
Speaker 2: to me, like from my experience talking to them. Testifying
24:52
Speaker 2: in front of Congress was you know, scary but also exciting.
24:55
Speaker 2: What I think was scariest was talking to the students
24:58
Speaker 2: who faced physical dangers on their campus. I was talking
25:01
Speaker 2: to a Rutgers student who she had wanted posters posted
25:05
Speaker 2: outside of her bedroom door in her dormitory, and she
25:09
Speaker 2: saw it as a threat to her physical safety, and
25:10
Speaker 2: I think she was right to see it as such.
25:13
Speaker 2: Has that gotten any better on campuses? Have you observed
25:17
Speaker 2: sort of in talking to students over the course of
25:19
Speaker 2: the last three years or.
25:20
Speaker 3: So, I think it has gotten better, directly as a
25:23
Speaker 3: result of the hearing and of the oversight and frankly
25:26
Speaker 3: of the executive orders of the Trump administration. These schools
25:29
Speaker 3: were put on notice for the world to see. I mean,
25:32
Speaker 3: it was the biggest impact in terms of damage to
25:36
Speaker 3: their brands, I think than any other institution in the
25:40
Speaker 3: world because of their failure to protect these students on campus,
25:44
Speaker 3: to enforce the rules. So post October seventh, you had
25:48
Speaker 3: students whose parents had to hire security. You had the
25:50
Speaker 3: case of Shabos. There was a Harvard staff member who
25:53
Speaker 3: videoed himself with a machete targeting threatening shabos. I mean
25:58
Speaker 3: it is the university did nothing. The university took no action.
26:04
Speaker 3: You have examples of swastikas written outside of these kids,
26:06
Speaker 3: you have physical assaults, and again the assaulter, the criminal,
26:10
Speaker 3: was able to walk at the graduation. So the schools
26:15
Speaker 3: have refused to fix themselves. But the reckoning that's happening
26:17
Speaker 3: broadly and having them under the spotlight has been very
26:21
Speaker 3: I think effective in starting to dig out of this
26:25
Speaker 3: rot right now and these lawsuits and the freezing of
26:28
Speaker 3: federal funds. Boy does it matter. It matters because, as
26:32
Speaker 3: I said, the schools had a year opportunity to make changes.
26:34
Speaker 4: They didn't.
26:35
Speaker 3: They dug themselves deeper and it was only when the
26:37
Speaker 3: administration flipped that you started to see them taking this
26:40
Speaker 3: very seriously.
26:42
Speaker 2: You said something interesting that I want to zero went
26:45
Speaker 2: on the damage to the brand my niece. So both
26:48
Speaker 2: my sister in laws went to Barnard and my nieces
26:51
Speaker 2: grew up wearing Onesies Barnard. Since they were newborns, they
26:55
Speaker 2: inherited the Barnard Onesies and my oldest niece just grabed
27:00
Speaker 2: waited last year and she didn't even apply to Columbia.
27:02
Speaker 2: She didn't want to go and so she didn't bother
27:05
Speaker 2: filling out the application. How much brand damage do you
27:08
Speaker 2: think has been wrought on these Ivy League schools and
27:11
Speaker 2: how permanent is it?
27:13
Speaker 4: I think it's very significant.
27:15
Speaker 3: If you look at the admissions data, you're seeing a
27:18
Speaker 3: significant shift. For example, Vanderbilt, which is highlighted as a
27:22
Speaker 3: positive school, that is seeing not only a skyrocketing in
27:25
Speaker 3: terms of the numbers who have applied, but it's now
27:28
Speaker 3: more competitive than Columbia. You use Columbia as an example,
27:31
Speaker 3: Vanderbilt is now more competitive and if you get accepted
27:34
Speaker 3: into both, you're more likely to go to Vanderbilt. So
27:37
Speaker 3: students are voting with their feet, parents are voting with
27:39
Speaker 3: their wallets, and that has been a very interesting shift
27:43
Speaker 3: to watch, and I think we need to the bookends
27:46
Speaker 3: on a high note, highlighting universities that have gotten it right,
27:49
Speaker 3: that are leading in this space, versus the poisoned ivies
27:52
Speaker 3: that have failed. Frankly, I also I think it's important
27:55
Speaker 3: to point out when we're talking about the Ivy League school,
27:58
Speaker 3: Dartmouth is a standout among the rest that were terrible
28:02
Speaker 3: Dartmouth actually did show very strong leadership, especially when compared
28:06
Speaker 3: to other institutions in the Ivy League.
28:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was something that I loved about your
28:11
Speaker 2: book is that you gave not just the negatives, but
28:14
Speaker 2: for me, as a Jewish parent, kind of a cheat
28:16
Speaker 2: list of where my kids should apply. And I was
28:20
Speaker 2: just you know, figuring out all of our five twenty
28:22
Speaker 2: nine stuff when we were doing our taxes, and I
28:25
Speaker 2: put Vanderbilt in as my you know, hypothetical highest tuition
28:31
Speaker 2: for private school because of your book, because I said,
28:34
Speaker 2: maybe I should put Vandy on the top of our list.
28:36
Speaker 2: Do you have any sort of parting words for parents
28:39
Speaker 2: who are facing this process of applying to colleges. My
28:44
Speaker 2: sister in laws, I do not envy the situation they've
28:47
Speaker 2: had over the course of the last few years. Do
28:49
Speaker 2: you have advice for people like my sister in laws
28:51
Speaker 2: who are trying to figure out where to send their children.
28:55
Speaker 3: My advice would be to make sure these institutions are
28:59
Speaker 3: focused on academic excellence and not political indoctrination. You don't
29:04
Speaker 3: want to be footing tuition bills for this political indoctrination
29:08
Speaker 3: at these universities. Actually focusing on what's being taught in
29:12
Speaker 3: the classroom that is applicable to real world jobs afterwards.
29:16
Speaker 3: When I was accepted to Harvard, that was a life
29:19
Speaker 3: changing decision for my family. I'm the first member to
29:22
Speaker 3: have that of my immediate family to have that opportunity.
29:25
Speaker 3: But I will tell you, Bethany, when I think about Sam,
29:27
Speaker 3: I would not send him to these institutions and he's
29:31
Speaker 3: not going to apply there unless and they're not gonna
29:33
Speaker 3: change by that time. But actually looking what fits your
29:37
Speaker 3: family's values and also is a strong investment for years
29:41
Speaker 3: to come. I also highlight in some of these cases,
29:44
Speaker 3: and I meet with these entrepreneurs in my office quite
29:46
Speaker 3: a bit. In congress Some incredibly talented students start at
29:51
Speaker 3: a place like MIT, they decide after a year, this
29:54
Speaker 3: is not worth my time or tuition. I'm going to
29:56
Speaker 3: go start a billion dollar company partnering with the Teal
29:58
Speaker 3: Fellowship and then meet them in the Congressional office because
30:01
Speaker 3: they're literally building billion dollar defense companies for example. So
30:05
Speaker 3: thinking outside the box in higher education is also something
30:09
Speaker 3: that I would encourage as well.
30:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time. I
30:13
Speaker 2: know you have to go vote. Where can folks find
30:15
Speaker 2: your book.
30:17
Speaker 3: You can order it on Amazon at your bookseller, but
30:19
Speaker 3: go to elisdefonic dot com. You can follow me at
30:21
Speaker 3: a least deponic on all the social media networks.
30:24
Speaker 2: Thank you so so much for taking the time to
30:26
Speaker 2: come on. Until next week, settle
30:29
Speaker 1: Up Ricochet, Join the conversation.