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Do Layoffs Impact Women More? · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you production if I
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: heart radio content. Warning, As the title suggests, we are
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: talking about layoffs and losing your job just not fun.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been laid off or fired, Samantha.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, I have rood of you to ask, but I'm
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: going to tell you anyway. But essentially, I think it
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: was more pragmatic and it was just the timing of everything.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: But it did feel great. I did get unemployment though
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: for a while. Oh, that was an interesting process.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: That's nice. You'll have to tell me because we are
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: going to talk about that briefly. Yeah, and here you'll
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: have to tell me about that. I have never been
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: laid off. I have lost a position before where they
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: were like, you're just not good at this, why don't
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: you do this? That's all right, you rearranged. I was rearranged.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I kind of feel like I was stell fired from
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Longhorned Steakhouse, which I told that story before.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Like you didn't even make it though.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I both feel I was still fired, but also I
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: wasn't showing up, so there was no official process. We
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: just both kind of ghosted each other.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to think if I have ever had that.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: I don't think so. I've always put in my notice
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: and left.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I had I've worked for a company that went I
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: don't think it went under, but something happened where within
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: the first week I didn't have a job.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I didn't.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Feel like I was. It felt like that whole thing
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: just went away. So right, But I had to go
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: find another job quickly because I was in Europe and
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I was anticipating That's why I was there, and I did.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I was very fortunate. Yes, we through the time I've
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: worked at this company, which long time.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, I kind of forget you have other jobs,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: You've ever had other jobs? Right?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: It feels weird to me too to remember. We have
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: had rounds of layoffs and it is scary. We had
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: a pretty emotional one when I was an intern, where
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: like I was young and I didn't it was my
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: first time I think ever when at this particular instance,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: they like sat us all in a room and told
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: us about it and that people were crying and like
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: people were packing up.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: And oh my gosh, you feel like, well, it's just
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: a very destabilizing feeling. Yeah, And we recently had a
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: round of layoffs here and several of my friends were
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: laid off, so it is.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: It's scary, and there have been there's been a lot
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: of stuff written about what's happening in the tech industry,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: specifically with a lot of the layoffs that have it
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: kind of started in twenty twenty, but twenty twenty three
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: and twenty twenty four were a big year for le unfortunately,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: and they impacted more women and marginalized folks, and we're
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: going to talk about that and why that is. I
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: would say you can check out our past episode spoiler
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: alert on pregnancy discrimination, our work from home episodes Women
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: and Unions perhaps, and the episode we did What's Happening
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: at Blizzard which we should update that one, oh my,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: but okay, So yes, for this, we're specifically looking at
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: several rounds of tech and journalism layoffs that happened this
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: year and how they have disproportionately impacted women and people
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: of color and throughout the year this year being twenty
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: twenty four, we have seen several high pro file rounds
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: of layoffs and we're going to look at a few
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: examples that highlight some troubling trends.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: Right and some baseline numbers to start off here. Since
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: the beginning of twenty twenty three, huge companies like Google, Meta,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: and Amazon have laid off tens of thousands of their employees.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: More recently, Tesla laid off fourteen thousand. The amount of
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: jobs lost in the tech sectors are estimated to be
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: upwards of three hundred and forty thousand, and the number
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: has since grown yep.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: In April of twenty twenty four, Tesla fired the five
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: hundred ish members of their Supercharger team, including the top
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: woman manager, Rebecca Tanucci, who was the company's top female employee.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Allegedly Elon Musk, who if you somehow managed to avoid it,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: in which case, congrats to your run. Tell us your
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: secret about that secret that's his company. He sent out
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: a questionnaire requiring managers to justify their human resources with
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: an email that contained the line, Hopefully these actions are
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: making it clear that we need to be absolutely hardcore
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: about headcount and cost reduction. Meanwhile, many industry journalists reported
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: that this action made no sense for the success of Tesla,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: like that was a big project, it didn't make sense.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Another Elon Musk company, Twitter, slash X, also saw mass
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: layoffs fifty seven percent of those layoffs for women, and
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: that that company has embroiled in so many lawsuits and
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: some of them are about.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: That right, just especially with the amount of money this
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: specific dude gets for doing nothing.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: But riek havoc.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, you got to say, probably tens of thousands
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: of jobs just by cutting your salary in half. Other
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: companies like Dell have been accused of stealth layoffs targeting women.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: With their return to office policies in early twenty twenty four,
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: they gave their employees two options, a hybrid option of
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: coming into the office and working remotely or continuing to
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: work completely remotely. However, choosing that option came with penalties,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: so one of them were quote no funding for team
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: on site meetings, even if a large portion of the
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: team is flying in for a meeting from other Dell locations,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: no career advancement, no career movements, and remote status will
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: be considered when planning or organization changes aka workforce reductions.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, and according to one employee interviewed, if someone got
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: promotion while working remotely, it required them to come in
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: thirty nine days every quarter to accept it and just
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: a note. Dell wasn't even necessarily providing these offices or
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: they didn't have enough space, I guess, and working remotely
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: was and had been a part of their hiring policy.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: It was how they hired a lot of people who
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: were like I just want to work remote, and they're like,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: we got you. We're a cool company, and that's great.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: For a con for the cool mobs.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they kind of. They were all about it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: And which is what tech does I feel like? And
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Dell is such like the boomer of tech company. Let's
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: just be really honest. It's like they're like, look, look,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: we're cool. Not only can you work from home, but
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: yes we originated with the open spaces and unlimited PTO
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: which you really can't take, and snacks.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: And maybe a cool conctart here and there.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we're gonna in a second. But yes, this
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: is pretty It's pretty ridiculous though, because this is from
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the standards you were reading, Samantha. Those that was from
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: like an official Dell email and to say like, well,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: you better come in or you're not going to get
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: any career advance meant and you're going to be the
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: first we consider when we're thinking about cutting our workforce.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And as we did discuss in our women working remotely episode,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: it does benefit a lot of women, especially if there's
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: childcare involves. I mean, obviously that still sucks if you
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: have to work while doing child care, but it is
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: a way that people were able to have these jobs
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: where maybe they couldn't before. Okay. In November of twenty
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: twenty three, a woman laid off from Octa in twenty
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: twenty filed a civil suit in San Francisco Superior Court.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: She alleged that, along with other women, she came forward
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: with concerns about gender discrimination, and then after that her
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: reviews dropped drastically until she was eventually fired, and the
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: suit claimed that women experience quote severe bias and inequity.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: The lawsuit read, like other women, missus Ho was encouraged
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: to speak up and was told that this is a
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: safe place to tell all, but it was a big trap.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Once she found encouraged to speak she was retaliated against.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: And that's in the larger conversation about retaliation that we're
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: not necessarily getting in to today, but that is part
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: of this will. A lot of what we are talking
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: about is tech specific. Journalism also has been really impacted
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: and in a lot of ways, a lot of that
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: industry has become a tech industry. In early twenty twenty four,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: a wave of layoffs hit the journalism industry, and people
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: raise the alarm that a lot of them hit women
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: and people of color, and how that was going to
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: negatively impact the landscape of our news and information, what's
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: being reported on, how it's being written. According to the
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Coalition for Women in Journalism, they reported that there were
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: seventeen thousand layoffs in this space in twenty twenty three.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Entertainment companies like Netflix and Disney also have similar conversations
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: to be had, but those are very different episode. Also,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: this is not at all just a US problem, but
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: we are talking mainly about US based companies today, and
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of those companies were so big, people a
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: little all over the world worked for them so and
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of this has been underscored by the fact
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: that when many of these companies were just getting started,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: they were mostly run and staffed by white men. As
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: more attention landed on that point, as more people were like, hey,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: it's the calls for change grew, these companies made bold
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: promises of being more inclusive in their hiring practices in
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: the twenty tens, especially as they got bigger and made
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: more money and became more structured in corporate but a
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: lot of them were still really famous for the yeah,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: the thinking outside the box in terms of office life,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: of like happy hours and gaming areas and bowling alleys
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: and movie theaters, all of that stuff that in a
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: lot of ways didn't suit women, especially if they had kids,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: but even things like feeling safe with your employees or
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: employers after hours or getting home late. And that's what
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: we talked about in the Blizzard episode, kind of the
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: different between a woman going to a conference and having
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: a drink versus a man doing it, and how it
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: can look really gross in office space. On top of that,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of companies supported and encouraged people moving during
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: the pandemic, and we've discussed it before, but those policies
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: again did benefit a lot of women and marginalized people.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So one of the things that can get kind of
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: lost is that some of the numbers indicate more men
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: were laid off in these cases percentage wise, but the
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: key thing is women often represent less percentage wise than
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: the workforce. So, for instance, in one analysis of three
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: four hundred people laid off, fifty five percent were men,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: forty five percent were women. However, women only made up
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: thirty nine percent of the total workforce, so it impacted
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: them far more. Some estimates put the number of women
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: laid off as higher and the women in the industry
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: also as lower.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: So a piece of this is that women are more
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: likely to get hired in positions that are more easily
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: cut at least to the higher ups like customer service
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: or HR. When it comes to seniority too, men are
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: more likely to have been there longer. This isn't even
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: touching on women or marginalized folks who left because of
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: burnout or harassment.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Other episodes we've done, Yes yep. Studies show that women
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: are less financially prepared for layoffs than men, and this
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: could be because of a lot of things like the
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: ginger wage gap, pink techs, all kinds of stuff. Women
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: who relocate for their spouses, especially in the military, are
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: disproportionately impacted too, and this brings us to the pregnancy
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: discrimination part. In the wake of the tech layoffs that
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: happened in May of twenty twenty four, a disturbing number
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: of accounts about pregnant folks people with postpartum or on
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: parental leave came out about them being a large percentage
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: or significant percentage of the ones that were cut in
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: terms of the number that they represented. Lawyers reported receiving
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: calls about pregnancy discrimination across the country. However, there just
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: aren't safeguards in place specifically protecting pregnant folks or people
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: on parental leave under the grounds of business necessities. The
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: discrimination is difficult to prove in the face of mass
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: layoffs too. But the thing is, like a lot of
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: these big companies use their parental leave plans to attract
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: new employees too, especially women. But in these recent waves
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: of layoffs, a lot of the people who were laid
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: off were women, especially women on leave, So it doesn't
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: seem to be matching up, right.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: And that's not even the conversation about like FLSA and
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: what you have to do to qualify for that, and
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: how to get through with that, and how to be
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: fired before getting with that. So it's really scary to
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: lose your job at any time, but especially when you've
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: had a big life change like having a kid, that
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: is going to put more financial pressure on you and
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: your family. On top of that, if you have a
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: baby and no access to childcare, is going to be difficult,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: if not impossible, to get a new job for at
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: least a little while.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so this also goes back to a point
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: we've discussed before, but a lot of these companies just
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: put into place these diversity equity inclusion DEI initiatives around
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: women and people of color and LGBTQ plus people and
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: people with disabilities, but without really making any change to
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: how the company functioned to make those things work. Look,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: they didn't think it out beyond just saying, yeah, we're
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: going to do this, or to account for the reality
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: of what being truly inclusive would mean. So we've also
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: seen a lot of companies doing away with those initiatives entirely.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: In recent years. It's become something of a controversial issue
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: in our political landscape.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: That's literally a platform like that people are using to
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: be like I should be your governor, your congressman, your
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: board of directors, whatever, Like it's absurd, like I will
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: get rid of DEI. We need to come back and
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: talk about the fact that the damn Asian person who
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: was puppet essentially coming after DEI initiatives and inclusivity initiatives
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: for higher education, and now the number of Asian students
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: being accepted has lowered, no other numbers, just the Asians.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, that's what you get.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And there's a lot. There's a lot going
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: on with this because it really does feel to me
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: that well, I mean, number one obviously most obviously their companies,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: and they want to make money and they thought like
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: saying these things would make them money.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: And they still do even during this time when it
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: like when it benefits them aka the Pride parades, they're like,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: we're going to be in here even though we've already
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: backtracked in all of these policies.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Right, And it's like the second that it becomes oh
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: they're striking or oh they're doing this, we don't need this,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: and it's just like they're just saying it to get
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: the points and then not doing anything about it. But
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I also truly do think they didn't even think it
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: through about how this would work or look, or they
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: didn't want to mess up with their their boys club,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: bowling alleys or whatever.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Right they're happy hours.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. And there are a couple of like
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: key things people have written about we've oken about on
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: the show. One is the importance of mentors in spaces
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: like this, but if all the mentors are white men,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't really work. And then there is the myth of
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: the white male genius who is so can never make
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: a mistake, is like the god of whatever company. Uh.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And then so even when they clearly do make mistake,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: they are never face these consequences, but everyone else who
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: is not there does, right, I mean President again? Yeah, yeah,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I laugh because I'm miserable. There's also going back to
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: what you kind of mentioned Smith, that there's this this
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: return that we're seeing happen to hardcore bro culture. And
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: so Elon Musk is a great example because when he
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: took over Twitter, he was like boasting about you're going
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: to sleep at work, You're gonna be working all the time.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You're like all of these things, as if this is
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: a good thing. Right, But that is that was the
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: myth of a lot of these companies that started to startups,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: was like you lived there, That's yeah, that's how it worked.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: But it's strange because that company was successful.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: But you start looking at the companies that have this
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: these thought processes. They made a whole freaking movie on
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Facebook alone, and you realize the majority of the success
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: comes from stealing things from people. Yeah, more than like
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: not a napster, all of those things. You're like, wait,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: these boys are not geniuses. They just know how to
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: get away with stealing exactly exactly.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Are taking credit? Yeah, just taking credit for other people's work.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Right, and Elon Musk Bezos is the same thing. And
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: then I know you're about to get into it, but
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: it's amazing this whole mentality like you have to dedicate
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: your life for a company, but we're not going to
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: reward you obviously, And like even the fact that Amazon
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: had that whole day they could not go take bathroom breaks,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: so they were peeing in bottles, and of course women
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: can't freaking do that really at all. And they have
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: this mentality that if you leave that station and you
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: are stealing time, stealing time from work, yeah, which is absurd,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: being paid for not working. You're like, that's not how
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: this works. And we're backtracking on all these things that
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: were protected so that people could have access to be human,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: right in this whole culture of like, no, but if
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: you really care about making money, if you really want.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: To be successful. This is what you.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Do right, right, and if you can't, if you can't
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: hack it, then get it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Then you're going to be fired and will replace you.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: You're easily replaceable.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, And it's just is bizarre also because of
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: course they try to paint it as if you were
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: being weak when you're like, really, you think people just
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: want to sleep at work.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Or right like you, you think that this is a
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: thing that they like. Being human once again is a
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: detriment like eating, right, I'm sorry, we are hungry. You
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: cannot live that way. We've had people die recently, a
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: couple of incidences at work, and no one found them
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: because they did not care about these people.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing is like, you know, Elon
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Musk is going to be fine, essentially, like even.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: With the millions that he's gonna be sued. He may
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: be sued, he may go to courts and may even
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: go to jail, He'll still be fine.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: He'll be fine. And so he's just asking his employees
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: to fix something he broke and bruin your life while
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: doing it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: He's broken in so many times.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Can we talk about how moody his whole thing is
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: like the whole new block thing is rumored that because
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: he didn't want he wanted his ex wife's access to
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: hit her account and if she blocked him, and so
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: the reason that they changed that up recently is so
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that he could still access her stuff.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: That's the rumor, isn't that. Like that comes up an
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: embarrassing about for you white male geniuses, is that it
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: was a woman that hurt you somewhere else, and.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: So therefore he has to do all these things in retaliation.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I'm like, how petty he's gonna be. And You're like,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: so you changed the whole blocking access, which did not
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: that's the one thing that didn't really need to be
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: fixed because you were upset that you could not see.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Your ex wife's content.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Really again, rumors not, Yes, it would not surprise me,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: but I'm like, it's really coincidental.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: It would not surprise me at all. But I mean, also,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: I want to come back and do an episode on this.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: But when I say like the return to this hardcore
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: bro culture, it's happening online as well, and it's happening
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: in a lot of spaces that some of them we've
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: touched on. I've seen some around the world that are happening.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: But a part of it is because of this, because
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: of people like Elon Musk who come in and do
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: all these terrible things, fire all the people of color,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: fire all the women. And so the technology that is
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: people are using is really boosting that content and it's
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: been sadly effective in a lot of ways. But yeah,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: that kind of we were we got away from it
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: for a minute. But then I also have reading a
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: very depressing article about this. But essentially it kind of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: snapped backwards in the way so many of these things
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: often do, uh for for a lot a lot of reasons.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: But well, I think I wonder if it just looked
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: that way once again. It was just a pay perspective,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: because when we talked about the Google creator and content
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: developer and the things that she went through, she was like, a,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: this AI stuff is not going to go well, who's
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: going to be racist? And we should not be doing
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: any of these things. And she immediately got fired and
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: everybody's et cetera. Like it was always there, but it
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: was better hidden and now just people just don't care anymore,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: especially with the fact that the government allows so much
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: leeway for tech companies to do whatever the hell they want,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: which is a whole different conversation that we've repeatedly have
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: had to have, and no one's really.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Talking about these issues.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: Like I've really upset and concerned that we are again
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: abortion is a huge issue.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about that. Queer
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: rights huge issues.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: But all these things are happening, but we're like, what
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: about the underlying things that we need to talk about
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: with each one of these Congress people, which a few
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: people have brought up, including John Ossoft being like, ay,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: so we should not allow government officials to be a
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: part of the stocks, but that should not be able
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: to practice in trading because there's some really shady stuff happening,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: and I completely agree with that on both sides. This
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: is where I'm like, this whole system is corrupt, So
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: I have a whole like, ah, yes, I am far
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: leading left and I am losing it, like I am
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: going faster on that track because we are seeing like
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: even the people that we were supposed to trust and
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: that we put on pedestals and we're so proud of
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: calling our representatives or at least like representatives in the states, like, oh,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: but you just made tons of money on this one
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: thing that really hurts the American people. And you know this,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: that's why like fracking and those issues are such a
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: hug just because you are putting money and banking on
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: how much money you're going to make and using your policies.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: So all these conversations that this is a huge thing
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: we should be looking at, but we haven't really even
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: considered at all. And I say we, including myself, because
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: we have to look at the bigger, huge victor first,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: the save democracy. Second, yeah, we'll come back to the
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: big issues with like the constitutional stuff at the Supreme Court,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: and then thirdly we'll come to these other things of
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: like why are they doing this and whose interest this
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: is for?
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the thing too, is like a lot
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: of these big companies they do get occasionally, they do
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: get fined, but for them it's nothing like it's.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: It's better to be fined than to correct something and
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: do something that's great for the people.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Like that's right.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: This is the biggest concern is like even with the
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: small companies that had good intent, they've grown into such
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: big companies that have been taken over and or that
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: have made enough money that they're like I don't care anymore.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: This is that makes me sad.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: But the fact that all of these things are happening
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: and these big tech companies do not care. They would
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: rather have a fine and have a whole like smear
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: campaign about the fact that they are sexist and racist
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: and like all of like anti LGBT, like all of
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: those things that homophobic is hell, they don't care because
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: it still makes the money and it doesn't do it
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: much like because the governments and or policies have held
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: them up and being like, yeah, but you can still
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: do that. That's racist, but it probably helps us in
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: the end and we can we can make good, better jobs, bigger, more.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Jobs, and events, which is not true.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: But like all of these conversations that I'm like, yeah,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: that's part of the big problem is that these companies
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: will never change because they're never ever and they're also
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: not taxed correctly.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, well that's the whole secret.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I'm opening up both all these doors.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: But like when we see these conversations, these layoffs why
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: they don't care and they put on like the the
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: lips on the pig type of conversation is literally like
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: that's what they do and knowing that they'll just talk
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: about the nice company that does it, yeah, and we'll
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: be lumped in here, but they'll they'll forget gus. There's
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: so many of us and they can't do anything to
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: all of us because the policies protect us.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Right, right, And it does, I mean so many there's
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: so many things in place like this, coming back to
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: coming back to the office and coming back to the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: like hardcore pro culture. I mean it does. These models,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: So many of these models, even with the like oh
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: now we're open space, do favor men. They were designed
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: with men and mine, right, And so having this idea
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: of like coming into the office that's better. It shows
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: that you like, really care and like even if they won't,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: they'll tell you, well, it won't penalize you, but if
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: you don't come in, they do, even if it's not purposeful,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: even if it's like just in the back of someone subconscious.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Right, the more you're seeing, the more you're likely to
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: be remembered. It's kind of that conversation too, But I
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: find it interesting. I'm going to go back to our
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: own experience. The last time we were in the studio
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: and we had Maya, our executive producer who was a powerhouse.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't know, like, I didn't know how strong she
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: really was. So I'm willing to stand up for like
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: what she felt was a wrong. But the fact is,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: have we not? We were being pushed over for men
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: like it was some interesting how quickly people wanted to
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: side with a bigger name, any of those like on
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: there's two separate sides. There's a radio side and there
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: is a podcast side. This was one of the things
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: that came together during the pandemic in hopes that they
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: could save money. Ab they're being like, we're gonna be
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: working from home anyway, so it's fine. Even though then
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: they started being like, come back into work. We were
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: like why, but then like, we did come back to work,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: and the moment we did, we were like being pushed
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: as a secondary in comparison to a bigger, like male
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: group of broadcasters. It wasn't their fault, but everything they
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: were doing was literally like, no, but but we were
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: more important. Oh no, but yeah, we have a system
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: where it's set ups that you have to sign things
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: up on, like a whole big calendar. But that's that
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter unless because we.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Are more important.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: It was a whole different, like and I feel like
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: most of that and this is again on us, but
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: at the same time on society, where we were like, oh, okay, okay,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: we don't want to cause conflict, We'll move okay, okay,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: but Maa being like, oh hell no, no, no, I
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: will fight with you.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I will fight with the heads in here.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Let's go, And she made sure to get put that
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: respect and she's like we being like, you are disrespecting us,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: and she never really says that. She was just like,
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: this is absurd, this is not how it goes. We
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: need to set a boundary. And I was like, heal, okay,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: because in it, like societally, we would have just moved on,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: like that was what we have always been told.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Even in the old office. There's moments we were like,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: why is this happening?
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: We have to shrink and people wonder why, And then
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: when we did and I was like, they impressive, Like
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: everything worked out. But it just feels like that type
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: of culture is what we have seen so often. Yeah,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: in like the likes of any social like any space.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying anything bad about our company necessarily
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: in this in this specific moment, but like things like
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: this have continued to happen in the office to the
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: point that this is why Maya was like, I'm done,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: I'm done well, and.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: It's like this was a very particular instance. But in
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: this instance, uh, everyone involved had done everything right, everything correctly.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: We have had the space, many of the other most
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: of the other studios were open, so it was it
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: wasn't it was odd. It was odd. A lot of
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: threads here, obviously, but I'm glad. I'm so glad Maya
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: stood up and before it worked out fine, but it
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: took time out of our day and I ended up
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: getting home I think three hours later. Then I had
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: planned right, and that was unnecessary. It was unnecessary.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: It was a waste of time, right, and honestly, like
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: in this like scope of what we was but it
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: just so the bottom line on this was like it
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: feels like a standard because we've had this done to
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: us a few times the few times that we were
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: in the studio.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: We've had this done multiple times where we were like, eh,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: scooch over sorry, and that's that expectations. And typically it
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: has always been men who overtake our studio.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Am I wrong? Every time?
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: I remember those situations always been dudes, yeah, because they yeah,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: they feel like this is a this is a standard,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: I can do this, we can do this, and it's
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: kind of a and even even when we had been like, hey,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: this is an issue, they'd be likeugh, just comply for
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: now and we'll fix this later, which again teaches us
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: and them nothing's going to be done. And I think
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: this is where this is the first time again why
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: we saw Maya being like nah, I'm over this, and
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: which again I was so thoroughly impressed that I was like, oh,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: because this is the first time we've seen it from
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: someone who was in charge of our our time in
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: studios place, So it was impressive for that matter, But
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: also this has been It wasn't a big deal, but
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: it is the bigger scope of things of like why
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: is this a standard?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And y'all think this is okay? And then y'all want
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: us to.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Be in here and talking about being empowered and acting
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: like this is a safe work space when you obviously
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: show how little we mean as a part of this
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: family company.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: When I was thinking about this topic of running through
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: my head, I also I wanted to do an episode
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: on the origins of the phrase go back to the
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: kitchen because I've just seen it. It's it's so it's everywhere,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: and it's been everywhere. It's like one of the first
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: things usually men will say to a woman who's they
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: don't agree with. And I was just like thinking about that,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: and I still I feel like that can kind of
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: translate here where it is still seen as like, well,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: they can they don't have to be here, they can
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: go back home, they to go do that as people
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: are expendable, right, Like that idea just permeated, And I
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: was also thinking about a lot of the invisible work
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: people do women do usually, and we've done episodes on
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and on like the whole spectrum of it. But like,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: as a single woman, you can get asked to do
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of the parties, the planning, all of these
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: events that you don't get paid for, really don't get
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: recognized for because you don't have kids, so what are
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: you doing? But then on the other side, people with
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: kids being penalized because they have kids, right and they
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: have to go home. So it's just sort of all
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of these expectations are punishments that are just there, even
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: if they're not writing, they are there.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Right, And the extra amount of work that is expected. Again,
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: planning a party is a pretty significant deal when you're
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: having a giant group of people. To be fair, I
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: think like people have realized this is yeah, an ordeal
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: for the most part, especially when people don't knew it.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: They're like, no, I'm not doing this anymore.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think that that conversation is like the
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: whole women in layoffs and then really figuring it out
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: to the they're expendable. We can easily replace them, we
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: could all these conversations and putting again, putting them at
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: positions that are replaceable in their minds, whether or not
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: they understand how big of a conversation like no, they're
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: not as expendable as you think, right, but especially when
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: they put the load that they do on most of
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: these types of positions that they think is so manial
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: in their bigger scheme of conversations when like I know,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: the saying goes is essentially you rise up to do
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: less work, like if you don't, if you actually want
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: to not have to do much, get a promotion type
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: of thing and people will do the work for you.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what we see, which.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: Is why again, like women are at the forefront of
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: being laid off and or excuse like again the pregnancy,
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: which blows my mind in every respect. I'm like, I
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: just I don't understand why that's the qualifier. Just okay, whatever,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: There's so many things in this conversation that needs to
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: be again readdressed. But yeah, as I am going on
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: my high rate of like, it doesn't change much. The
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: culture of business who says they're trying to appreciate the
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: marginalized people are the same people who are like, yeah,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: but you need to be able to be shrunk, you
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: need to be smaller so we can exist as an
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: peaceful office. Like you need to make peace, you need
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: to be okay and don't make any waves here. And
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: it's such an interesting thing in that same way, but
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: like they're willing to get rid.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Of those people. Well probably the peace keepers of the office.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Probably and are most likely doing a lot more work
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: than you're I'm realizing right. Also, this whole conversation has
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: also brought up conversation around things like just cause, So
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: that means that they have to Companies legally have to
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: give you a reason why you're fired, not always you
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: have to fight for that. In some cases, but in
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: layoffs it's a kind of ambiguous space. So, like I said,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: some of this is that's why it's been so hard
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: to prove as you can. It's difficult. Also, severance policies
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: that that's come under come to light and discussion has
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: been had about that and how good are bad they are.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: But I didn't want to ask you how So you've
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: got some unemployment.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: I did, and the amount I don't think unemployment has
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: gone up either since I've had unemployment, and that was
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: fourteen years ago. I think the amount State of Georgia
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: has made the same because that y'all, it doesn't it's
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: not much. And what sucks is its tax It is
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: taxed awfully. Yeah, So essentially a weekly benefits for the
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: State of Georgia goes from fifty five dollars to three
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty five dollars a week, but it is taxed,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: so one third of it is gone. So essentially you
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: may be able to get twelve hundred dollars a month.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine living off the end if you get
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: a part time job that goes away, right, you cannot
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: make money and you have to show every week that
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: you are trying to find the job, the amount of
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: things that you have to do to get unemployment and
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: you can easily be removed, the amount of taxes that
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: you have to pay because you can choose not to
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: have a tax at the beginning and then at the end.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Man, that hurt me.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it hurt me a lot. I was trying to
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: find the job. This is what I just turned thirty.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Everything felt like the worst, and I was trying my
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: damnness and like trying to find a job and trying
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: to get back into social work all these things. But
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: the fact that it has not changed, yeah, in that
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: long of a period, that's the most absurd. Yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean the thing is like if a company,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: companies don't have to offer severance policies, and even even
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: if they do, if they can find a way to say,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: like they had just cost, they had a reason to
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: fire you, right, they don't have to give it to you.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: And unemployment is also contingent on that. If they had
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: just cause and you got fired and it's your fault
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: if you quit any of those things, you don't get unemployment. Yeah,
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: And a job can fight against you, yes, to not
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: get unemployment because it comes from their taxes, brakes, So
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: it's so.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Gross, it is. And then again going back to so
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: many of these things, but especially with women who might
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: have children or people who might have children, like finding
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: a job and it's not easy. Finding one where you
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: can maybe have flexible hours or work from home also
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: not easy. So it is a huge tax on women
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: and people of color. And then yeah, it's just hard
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: to find a job. And you know, you might have
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: really cared about your job and so you don't quite
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: feel like just moving on, or maybe you're a little depressed. Right,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: there's a lot going on where twelve hundred dollars a
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: month is not gonna right.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Get it Also just that conversation of the fact that
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: you have to give a reason as to why you're
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: laid off.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Hopefully that you're like, oh, it was just a mass decision,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Da da da.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: But we know a lot of these companies have become
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: vindictive and say they're laying off based on performance. That's true,
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: and that in itself is like a mark on many
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: of those people who are being laid off.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: And then some who are vindictive.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: And give bad recommendations, which by the way, is illegal technically.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Well weirdly. Yeah, yeah, it's a mess. Obviously, there's a
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: lot of other paths we could go down with this one,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: but oh.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: God, yeah, I'm thinking about the fact that if there's
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: a gap in your resume they get they see that
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: as a negative. So if you're just off because you
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: were with your child, they see that as a negative.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: There's so many bad things there.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry there are. It's warranted. It's warranted. But yeah, uh, listeners,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: if you have any thoughts on this, if you were
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I know some of you were impacted I think by
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: some of the twenty twenty three layoffs, please let us
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: know and hope we hope you're all doing okay whatever's
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: going on in your life. You can contact us in
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: many ways. You can email us at Stephania, mom stuff
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: mom stuff Podcasts, or instagrament TikTok at stuff one never
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: told you you guys have a t public story and
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: we have a book you can get wherever you get
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: your recks. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: our executive producer, My hand or contributor Joey, Thank you,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and thanks to you for listening Steffan Never told you
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: the production by heart Radio from more podcast from My
• 42:25
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• 42:27
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