Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'Daddy’s Dead': Cabbie’s Kids Learn Dad’s Dead Day After He’s Beaten

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'Daddy’s Dead': Cabbie’s Kids Learn Dad’s Dead Day After He’s Beaten · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, unloving father of four brutally
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Speaker 1: bludgeoned dead, an innocent Cabby, a taxi driver trying to
0:24
Speaker 1: make a living, working all kind of hours, day and
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Speaker 1: night to support his wife and four children. He's dead
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Speaker 1: and I want to know why. I'm Nancy Grace. This
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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
0:37
Speaker 1: at Fox Station in series X one eleven. First of all,
0:40
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Fox five. Police
0:43
Speaker 1: continue their search for the suspects who murdered a taxi driver,
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Speaker 1: now his widow heartbroken, speaking out a good good man,
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Speaker 1: it was my big bond. I'm loth grade. Note. These
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Speaker 1: are four children that are going to grow up with
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Speaker 1: no father, and I'm angry because this could have all
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Speaker 1: been avoided. We need to look around us and say
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Speaker 1: what city are we living in? Four children left behind
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Speaker 1: without a father. A murder like this doesn't just claim
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Speaker 1: the life of the murder victim. The victims' families live
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Speaker 1: through the wake of pain that the purps have left behind.
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Speaker 1: Four children, and listen to their ages eight, seven, five,
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Speaker 1: and three. The three year old may not ever even
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Speaker 1: remember dad. And you know another thing about that? Little
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Speaker 1: children somehow always think it's their fault whatever happened. For instance,
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Speaker 1: where there's a divorce, the child thinks it's my fault
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Speaker 1: I cause daddy or mommy to leave. Much less in
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Speaker 1: a case like this, they may grow up thinking, Wow,
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Speaker 1: my dad was working night and day as a cab
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Speaker 1: driver to support me. Well, this is my fault. If
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Speaker 1: it weren't for me, he wouldn't have been working those
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Speaker 1: crazy hours. And then the wife left to raise the
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Speaker 1: children alone. This is a tragedy beyond so many normal proportions.
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Speaker 1: But what happened. Take a listen to our friend Rosanna
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Speaker 1: at Scotte Fox five. Police say early Saturday morning, he
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Speaker 1: was dropping off five passengers along Beach fifty fourth Street
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Speaker 1: in Far Rockaway. Investigators say the passengers did not pay
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Speaker 1: their fare, they tried to rob him. That's when police
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Speaker 1: say this cab driver chased them. He was hit in
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Speaker 1: the back of the head by one of those suspects.
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Speaker 1: He fell to the ground, lost consciousness. He died at
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Speaker 1: the hospital. Dad at the hospital. Now listen to our
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Speaker 1: friend Aston Martinez CBS two and our friend Alicia Read.
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Speaker 1: With the final punch, Gemma falls to the ground. The
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Speaker 1: husband and father of four died from severe head trauma.
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Speaker 1: My husband was a good man. It was everything we had.
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Speaker 1: Who was my Childre's bureau witnesses say he started chasing
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Speaker 1: them three males and two females, when he was hit
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Speaker 1: in the back of the head. The taxi driver fell
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Speaker 1: to the ground, hit his head and lost consciousness. He
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Speaker 1: later died at Saint John's Hospital. Joining me an all
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Speaker 1: star panel of guests makes sense of what we know
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Speaker 1: right now. But first let me go to a special guest.
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Speaker 1: It's Tina Moore, our friend and colleague, the New York
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Speaker 1: Post Police Bureau Chief of the New York Post. Tina,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What can you tell
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Speaker 1: me about this dad a four and this brutal death.
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Speaker 1: So he gave was it five people a ride? Then
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Speaker 1: they tried to rob him and took off right. They
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Speaker 1: tried to run without paying the fare. That's really how
4:07
Speaker 1: it started. You know what, I started with a pointed question.
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Speaker 1: You start at the beginning and tell me, Tina more
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Speaker 1: what happened. So the five people, they tried to run
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Speaker 1: without paying the fare. That's how this really got started.
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Speaker 1: He chased them, you know, he wanted to get paid.
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Speaker 1: He worked really hard, long hours and one of them
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Speaker 1: hit him. One of them, young men, twenty year old,
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Speaker 1: allegedly hit him and he hit the ground. And that's
4:30
Speaker 1: you know, when you think of the hospital and died.
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Speaker 1: You know, this guy, this father hutin supporting four people
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Speaker 1: working crazy hours. One of five delivers a fatal blow
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Speaker 1: to his head that knocks him unconscious. Believe it or not.
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Speaker 1: The five include three girls girl and you can see
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Speaker 1: them in video taken I guess by bystanders beating kicking
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Speaker 1: this unarmed cab driver the data four in the head,
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Speaker 1: the side, the stomach. It looks like a violent gangland
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Speaker 1: movie where the victim is lying on the floor, cringing,
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Speaker 1: going in a fetal position, and the kicks and the
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Speaker 1: hits just keep on coming. To Tina Moore joining us
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Speaker 1: from the New York Post Police Bureau. Tina, who took
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Speaker 1: the video surveillance video. Nancy, from the scene, you're talking
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Speaker 1: about the girls, I feel like and this is really
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Speaker 1: just a violence for a violent sake, it seems like,
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Speaker 1: which is terrible. I doubt the girls realize that your
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Speaker 1: discussions though, I you know, I'm sure only that man
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Speaker 1: who hit him it's going to get charged with murder
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Speaker 1: or some level of manslaughter. Well, I have to say
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Speaker 1: I disagree joining me, Peter Smith, with the losses of
6:05
Speaker 1: Ken Belkin, joining us out of New York. His specialty
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Speaker 1: one of them criminal defense, and you can find him
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Speaker 1: at Belkin Law. No. No, I am not going to
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Speaker 1: be happy with just the one person that delivered the
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Speaker 1: final fatal blow being charged with murder. Oh e double
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Speaker 1: l n Oh, that's felony murder. They were all acting together.
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Speaker 1: For instance, Peter, if you and I go into let's
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Speaker 1: just pretend Chase Manhattan. You're in New York, right. We
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Speaker 1: go in and I've got a gun. Let's just pick
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Speaker 1: an oozy. No, let's go with a sawt off shotgun
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Speaker 1: because I can easily hide that in my armpit. So
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Speaker 1: we go into the bank, and you tell me right
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Speaker 1: before we go in, remember nobody gets hurt. To make sure, sure, sure,
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Speaker 1: let's just get the money. We go in and all
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Speaker 1: of a sudden, I go hey wire and I opened
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Speaker 1: fire with my easy and gun down the two security
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Speaker 1: guards and a teller and an innocent person cashing their check.
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Speaker 1: And you're like, what did I just tell you? Guess
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Speaker 1: what you're going down for? Murder to Peter. That is correct, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: That is what you're describing there as felony murder, and
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Speaker 1: that is a murder that is committed during the act
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Speaker 1: of or commission of a felony. So by going into
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Speaker 1: the bank and intending to rob it and commit a felony.
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Speaker 1: If there's a murder that takes place that I didn't anticipate,
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Speaker 1: I didn't think was going to happen, I had no
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Speaker 1: intent whatsoever, it doesn't matter. It's one of the few
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Speaker 1: crimes where the men's rare, which is the intent of
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Speaker 1: the crime doesn't matter because you're already in the act
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Speaker 1: of a felony. And you said something interesting, You said,
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Speaker 1: a murder that occurs during the commission of a crime.
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Speaker 1: But I understand and felony murder to be a death
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Speaker 1: that occurs during the commission of a club. Let's go
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Speaker 1: on with our bank scenario. Okay, you're a mad because
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Speaker 1: I shot four people. Then we get in the car
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Speaker 1: and it doesn't in there, I'm driving the getaway car
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Speaker 1: and I run over somebody by accident as my twinslay on.
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Speaker 1: Accident that was entirely not part of the plan. That
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Speaker 1: is also felony murder because a death occurs even unintentionally
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Speaker 1: during the commission of a felony a bank robbery. What
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Speaker 1: about that, Peter Smith, Nancy had to say, you're correct
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Speaker 1: again and you might be the defense attorney expert here
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Speaker 1: because here your description of each one of these crimes
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Speaker 1: is absolutely accurate. And it is true that it does
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Speaker 1: not have to be a murder because you know, murder
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Speaker 1: carries an intent mentre as well. So if you are
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Speaker 1: driving that car after the commission felony and you hit somebody,
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Speaker 1: you would be charged with felony murder as well. I'm
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Speaker 1: just thinking about this family, this mother and these children
9:22
Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, you're hearing about the
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Speaker 1: fatal The fatal kick to the head was delivered by
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Speaker 1: a guy, we think, and it all plays out on
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Speaker 1: video as the three girls are dancing around kicking him
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Speaker 1: and aside the stomach joining you right now out of
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Speaker 1: fort Worth, renown medical examiner doctor Kendall Crowns, the chief
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Speaker 1: medical examiner in Tarrant County. That's fort Worth, who is
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Speaker 1: also lecturer University Texas and at Texan Christian University Medical School.
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Speaker 1: As if you have time, doctor Kennel crown, thank you
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Speaker 1: for being with us. Explain what happened to this dat
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Speaker 1: A four too, Tanjemma. So when you're looking at the video,
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Speaker 1: you can see that he's being punched or assaulted, punched
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Speaker 1: and kicks multiple times, and he gets knocked to the
10:17
Speaker 1: ground a few times, and then there's the final hit
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Speaker 1: right at the end. It looks like it's connecting with
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Speaker 1: his head and neck and probably cocks him unconscious. He
10:28
Speaker 1: falls to the ground and hits his head. So there
10:31
Speaker 1: can be a number of things he can get from
10:33
Speaker 1: an unprotected fall from a standing height which he was at.
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Speaker 1: You can actually fracture your skull, and you can get
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Speaker 1: what is called a subdural hemorrhage, which is, ah, can
10:44
Speaker 1: you slow down just a second? What now about the fall?
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Speaker 1: So a fall from a standing height, if you fall
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Speaker 1: without catching yourself on the concrete, you can potentially fracture
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Speaker 1: your skull if you're above five foot tall, because there's
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Speaker 1: enough force generated from that fall to the ground on
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Speaker 1: concrete that it can actually cause you to have a
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Speaker 1: skull fracture. But the other thing is is your brain,
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Speaker 1: because your brain's kind of floating in your skull or
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Speaker 1: your cranial cavity with the CSF of the cerebral spinal fluid.
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Speaker 1: It's it's not like solidly in there. It has a
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Speaker 1: little wiggle room, and when it hits a solid surface,
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Speaker 1: suddenly it causes the brain to jar. And these little
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Speaker 1: veins that come out of your brain that attached to
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Speaker 1: the duro which is covering it's over your brain, a
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Speaker 1: protective covering your ass. And you're saying the brain floating
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Speaker 1: around in something what cerebral spinal fluid. It's it's the
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Speaker 1: fluid that's associated with your brain, giving it nutrients things
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Speaker 1: like that. But your brain is not like fixed in
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Speaker 1: your skullet. It's slightly floating. So when you hit something hard,
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Speaker 1: it causes your brain to suddenly move and it tears vessels.
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Speaker 1: And when those vessels tear, you get bleeding in your brain.
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Speaker 1: That's called suberachnoid hemorrhage or subdural hemorrhage, and that bleeding
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Speaker 1: causes you to Because your brain doesn't have a lot
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Speaker 1: of wiggle room in the skull, any space occupying lesion
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Speaker 1: like blood causes your brain to become injured or damaged
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Speaker 1: and causes you to die. Doctor Kennel Crowns, renowned medical
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Speaker 1: examiner joining US doctor Kennel Crowns. As you and I know,
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Speaker 1: typically autopsy photos are not allowed in front of a jury.
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Speaker 1: They never see what happens at the morgue. However, in
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Speaker 1: this case they may very well be allowed. And I'll
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Speaker 1: tell you why you just said subdural hemorrhages. The jury
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Speaker 1: may not be able to tell from looking at the
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Speaker 1: crime scene photos are looking at the body of this
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Speaker 1: data for pre autopsy, there's any bleeding at all. And
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Speaker 1: I remember or how hard I had to fight one
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Speaker 1: time in a murder case. It was a Jane Doe.
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Speaker 1: You couldn't see an the injuries until the head was
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Speaker 1: very delicately done with a scalpel by somebody like you,
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Speaker 1: very carefully, the skin pulled back from the head, and
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Speaker 1: then the subdural hemorrhages, the bleeding, the bruising under the
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Speaker 1: skin is on full display. They may be a look
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Speaker 1: at this guy and not realize what really killed him
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Speaker 1: until you look under the skin. You only see that
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Speaker 1: after the autopsy, right, And I've seen this before a
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Speaker 1: lot of people of these one punch falls hit their head.
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Speaker 1: Of course, this gentleman is not a one punch. It's
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Speaker 1: multiple punches and kicks. But you can kill someone if
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Speaker 1: you punch them and they go unconscious and they fall
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Speaker 1: to the ground and hit their head because of the
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Speaker 1: injury that's caused by the jarring force hitting the ground.
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Speaker 1: Cause was bleeding on the brain and all that. So
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Speaker 1: one punch can't kill you if you knock him out
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Speaker 1: and they hit the ground. Now, as his wife that
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Speaker 1: you heard earlier, Abigail and their four children were going
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Speaker 1: about their business. Little did they know that daddy was
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Speaker 1: being attacked in broad daylight by a pack of thugs.
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Speaker 1: That they found out soon enough. Take a list of
14:26
Speaker 1: our friends at CBS two, we're told within two hours
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Speaker 1: of leaving for work this morning, police called with the
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Speaker 1: tragic news, described as a peaceful man took his last
14:38
Speaker 1: ride at work Saturday morning. Why do you have to
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Speaker 1: talk somebody for lovers? How much? Maybe he's doom to
14:45
Speaker 1: somebody's life. Come on, police say. The taxi driver drove
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Speaker 1: his five passengers to their far rockaway destination, and it
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Speaker 1: was there at Beach fifty fourth Street and Arverne Boulevard
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Speaker 1: where the suspects didn't pay their fare and tried to
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Speaker 1: rob him all over a fair. All over the fair,
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Speaker 1: they get out take off running. He tries to run
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Speaker 1: after them to get paid for the fair, and they
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Speaker 1: turn on him like a pack of hyenas. Is the
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Speaker 1: way I understand when I look at these pictures, Tina More,
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Speaker 1: it's amazing. Over, for instance, a thirty dollars fair, They've
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Speaker 1: all surrounded him. He's down on the ground and it
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Speaker 1: looks like the three girls are almost dancing with their
15:29
Speaker 1: feet up in the air, their hands up in the air,
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Speaker 1: chicking this guy down on the ground all the cement.
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Speaker 1: They've got him totally surrounded. It's horrible. It's still violent.
15:41
Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable. It's just really bad. I don't know
15:44
Speaker 1: if to say, you know, still so bad for his kids,
15:46
Speaker 1: for kids. And another thing I noticed, Tina, is this
15:51
Speaker 1: is in broad dalite. He's only been gone from home
15:54
Speaker 1: two hours and it's right beside. It looks like a
15:59
Speaker 1: play round or a tennis area. I could see park,
16:02
Speaker 1: benches and trees they're right there, and a playground or
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Speaker 1: park in broad Dale. They have no fear. They don't
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Speaker 1: care who sees them. Now. This is they don't don't
16:15
Speaker 1: have any fear at all. They're not that much older
16:17
Speaker 1: than his kids. So it's just a horrible tragedy, which
16:20
Speaker 1: brings me to my next point. Guys, speaking of the
16:25
Speaker 1: age of the thugs, take a listen to our friends
16:29
Speaker 1: at CBS two. This is Alisha Reid, the devout Christian.
16:34
Speaker 1: He and his wife have four children, the oldest only
16:37
Speaker 1: eight years old. Tis so Jan Kupiades who four children,
16:42
Speaker 1: But State Federation of Taxi Drivers is offering a fifteen
16:46
Speaker 1: thousand dollars reward for information leading to an arrest. Friends
16:50
Speaker 1: and family are trying to wrap their minds around this
16:53
Speaker 1: terrible loss. Loving, loving and caring gentlemen, part working, part working,
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Speaker 1: take scare of the family. Yeah, we've really lost a
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Speaker 1: dedicated father. Funeral expenses are being covered by Gimma's employer.
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Speaker 1: The State Federation of Taxi Drivers is holding a rally
17:12
Speaker 1: Sunday morning. We're told the family is expected to attend.
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Speaker 1: Paul and all. How many purps are suspected, tinamore five.
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Speaker 1: I understand they range from twenty to thirteen years old.
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Speaker 1: We believe they are thirteen, fifteen, sixteen, twenty and twenty two.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold joining us. Renowned psychiatrists joining us out
17:37
Speaker 1: of the Atlanta Jurisdiction and you can find her at
17:40
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com, Doctor Angie. It's a pack mentality.
17:48
Speaker 1: People do things in a group they would normally do
17:53
Speaker 1: if they were by themselves. Years ago, it was called
17:56
Speaker 1: wilding when preteens to get together and just go crazy.
18:04
Speaker 1: They may knock down mailboxes, they may spray paint or murder.
18:09
Speaker 1: What's the mentality, well, Nancy, people people can do things
18:15
Speaker 1: in a pack and feel like they're first of all,
18:19
Speaker 1: they feel supported if they if they do things in
18:23
Speaker 1: a pack. Okay. It's also known as herd mentality, mob mentality,
18:29
Speaker 1: and gang mentality. Okay, So when you say ganging a
18:33
Speaker 1: mean that they're the bloods of the crips or some
18:35
Speaker 1: other gang. It's just a group of people. Yes, yes,
18:38
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. And it's defined by elements of hostility
18:42
Speaker 1: and fear. Okay. And if you're within the pack, you
18:48
Speaker 1: have to play by the rules of the pack or
18:51
Speaker 1: you might get cut, or you might get kicked out
18:53
Speaker 1: of the pack. So that might be what was at
18:56
Speaker 1: play here. Also in this pack mentality. You know what's odd?
19:00
Speaker 1: Joining me? Chris Buyer's former police chief at John's Creek
19:04
Speaker 1: twenty five years on the force, now private investigator and
19:07
Speaker 1: polygrapher at Chris Buyers Investigations and polygraph dot Com. That's
19:14
Speaker 1: a mouthful, that said Chris Buyers. You don't normally see girls,
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Speaker 1: teen girls this young, we believe, thirteen fifteen, sixteen brutally
19:26
Speaker 1: kicking an adult male down on the ground in the stomach,
19:31
Speaker 1: the chest, the head. I mean, think about the mentality.
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Speaker 1: I'm rearing back like you're kicking a football and kicking
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Speaker 1: somebody in the head. Is they're lying on the ground. Yeah.
19:46
Speaker 1: All I can think when you were talking just now
19:48
Speaker 1: about her being thirteen the youngest My daughter turned thirteen
19:51
Speaker 1: last week, and all I can think is, you know
19:55
Speaker 1: what could bring a thirteen year old to that much anger?
19:59
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just zero respect for life there. And
20:02
Speaker 1: you know, I think back when I first started in
20:04
Speaker 1: law enforcement in the early nineties, this was you never
20:08
Speaker 1: saw girls, especially teenage girls, involved in this kind of stuff.
20:12
Speaker 1: So it just shows where we've come as a society
20:15
Speaker 1: now and how much we respect life now or disrespect life.
20:18
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting. I want to follow up on
20:20
Speaker 1: what Chris Byers just said. Piddr Ay Arnold the other
20:25
Speaker 1: day my son, they're fourteen, they're twins. John Dave was
20:29
Speaker 1: tormenting his sister and she took a spiral notebook and
20:32
Speaker 1: hit him. And can I tell you all, h eble
20:35
Speaker 1: l got rained down on the both of them because
20:38
Speaker 1: there's no hitting, no hitting, And that was just over
20:42
Speaker 1: a swat with a spiral notebook. I mean, how do
20:47
Speaker 1: you get to the point where it's okay? And you
20:50
Speaker 1: go along with kicking and unarmed men this dad kitchen
20:55
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking about my own dad and my husband
20:58
Speaker 1: down he's down all the ground and they're continuing to
21:03
Speaker 1: kick at him and I'm sure screaming and laughing and
21:08
Speaker 1: cursing at him, and they don't let up until he's dead. Well,
21:13
Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, they're probably I mean they again, the
21:18
Speaker 1: mob and the gang mentality that is going on creates
21:22
Speaker 1: its own energy, and no one wants once they get
21:27
Speaker 1: into this. They no one wants to seem like a wimp.
21:30
Speaker 1: And none of them are going to say, oh, we
21:32
Speaker 1: better stop, okay, because they're all they're also, believe it
21:37
Speaker 1: or not, trying to gain a certain amount of status.
21:40
Speaker 1: Who are these people? I can't even talk call them kids?
21:45
Speaker 1: Are children, because when you look at these videos, they're killers.
21:50
Speaker 1: They're killers. And you know what I'm looking at right now,
21:53
Speaker 1: this incredible photo. He's such a handsome man. And here
21:59
Speaker 1: he is with his wife Abigail, and their pictured together,
22:04
Speaker 1: and they're so in love. He's all dressed up in
22:07
Speaker 1: a suit and she looks like she's got on a
22:10
Speaker 1: church dress, and these beautiful smiles, their whole life in
22:15
Speaker 1: front of them, their prides and joys, their four children,
22:20
Speaker 1: and looking at him, it just reminds me so much
22:23
Speaker 1: of my dad, who would get up sometimes, as he
22:26
Speaker 1: called it, he'd worked the first trick, Peter Smith, which
22:30
Speaker 1: is the first shift, sometimes second, somebody's third, sometimes overnight
22:35
Speaker 1: shift on the railroad. Never complained, Never complained, Peter Smith.
22:42
Speaker 1: You have tried and investigated so many cases. Did you
22:47
Speaker 1: ever wonder why is it always the really great people
22:51
Speaker 1: that get murdered while the evildoers, the po sees technical
22:58
Speaker 1: legal term, piece of craps they live? Yeah? Well, I mean,
23:02
Speaker 1: and so I actually grew up in New York in
23:05
Speaker 1: the bad old eighties and nineties, and you know, I
23:08
Speaker 1: remember the palpable fear of you know, not knowing what
23:12
Speaker 1: was going to be around a corner when you turned it.
23:15
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, a lot of the
23:17
Speaker 1: times it's it's the good people that are victimized, because
23:20
Speaker 1: they're the ones that are out there still doing their jobs,
23:22
Speaker 1: still plugging away and having faith in the city as
23:25
Speaker 1: a place of opportunity. So it is heartbreaking, and my
23:30
Speaker 1: heart does go out to the family of the victim.
23:32
Speaker 1: You know what I've noticed at Peter Smith. Have you
23:34
Speaker 1: ever had a vehicular homicide and the purp that kills everybody,
23:40
Speaker 1: it's totally drunk and they live, They're like sprawled out
23:44
Speaker 1: on the seat, and all the family in the other car,
23:47
Speaker 1: they're all dead. Have you ever seen that? And I
23:50
Speaker 1: always walk away going why does he get to live?
23:54
Speaker 1: And this whole family has been wiped out by this
23:56
Speaker 1: one guy. All the good people, the innocent people are
24:00
Speaker 1: killed and they walk free and the perp walks free. Yeah,
24:04
Speaker 1: I mean that happens oftentimes, h and it is a
24:07
Speaker 1: try tragedy. And at the same time, um, you know
24:11
Speaker 1: that that purp needs to live with what he or
24:15
Speaker 1: she did for the rest of their lives, and oftentimes
24:17
Speaker 1: that prison can be can be pretty horrific alone. But
24:22
Speaker 1: I do agree that it is a tragedy. Par Smith.
24:24
Speaker 1: If you're starting with me about how bad prison is
24:27
Speaker 1: going to be, thank you, Tina. I can bring myself
24:30
Speaker 1: to laugh at That's what I was thinking on the inside.
24:32
Speaker 1: I recognize you're laughed anymore. So who are these perps?
24:36
Speaker 1: Take a listen now to our friend Johnny Fernandez at
24:39
Speaker 1: ABC seven. Now, police say, well, originally looking for three
24:43
Speaker 1: teenage girls. Now police are looking for two of those girls.
24:46
Speaker 1: The other girl is treated as a witness in regards
24:49
Speaker 1: to the one that police are looking for. They are
24:52
Speaker 1: expected to be charged with a gang assault. Today, his
24:55
Speaker 1: widow spoke out again about the heartbreaking death. Was my child,
24:59
Speaker 1: guys here, it was my backbone. It was the one
25:05
Speaker 1: I looked up to. I look up to God, but
25:08
Speaker 1: aside God, he was the only one I looked up to.
25:12
Speaker 1: Now his life has just been cut short, just like that.
25:16
Speaker 1: She says she forgives the people involved in the homicide,
25:18
Speaker 1: but wants justice for her family. Turn themselves in because
25:22
Speaker 1: they're gonna be caught wherever they are. Even if they
25:25
Speaker 1: are not caught by man, God is gonna bring them in.
25:29
Speaker 1: You know this woman that is enduring so much right now?
25:32
Speaker 1: Can you imagine just today her waking up, nobody's on
25:37
Speaker 1: the other side of the bed. There's no money coming
25:40
Speaker 1: into the home. The children are wonder where's daddy? What happened?
25:45
Speaker 1: And she's gonna feed them, They clothe them and get
25:48
Speaker 1: them to school and somehow explain to them how everything
25:53
Speaker 1: is gonna be all right, when inside she knows it's
25:57
Speaker 1: never gonna be all right. They're gonna grew up the
26:00
Speaker 1: rest of their life without a dad. There's just really
26:05
Speaker 1: no replacement for your biomb your bio data, your adopted parents.
26:11
Speaker 1: You know, you lose one of them, doctor Angie, And
26:15
Speaker 1: I don't think you're ever the same. Well, you're not, Nancy.
26:18
Speaker 1: You know why, Because Nancy, that sense of security is
26:23
Speaker 1: taken from those children. Nope, nothing will ever be normal
26:27
Speaker 1: or the same for them. And you feel so secure
26:30
Speaker 1: within your family that your parents have built for you,
26:34
Speaker 1: and now to have someone just taken away, particularly in
26:38
Speaker 1: such a tragic way, how will those children ever sleep
26:42
Speaker 1: through the night again and feel and feel secure in themselves.
26:47
Speaker 1: You know another thing, doctor Angie, that you can address,
26:50
Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold joining me psychiatris side of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
26:54
Speaker 1: You know the story when I gave birth Lucy and
26:57
Speaker 1: I almost died, and I remember being in the hospital
27:00
Speaker 1: and my lunch are just full of boy clots, and
27:04
Speaker 1: I was praying, O, Lord, please just let me live
27:10
Speaker 1: long enough to get them out of the hospital and
27:13
Speaker 1: to get them well because they're really premature. And then
27:17
Speaker 1: so I made it that far, and I'm like, Lord,
27:20
Speaker 1: just helped me live, to get them settled in and
27:26
Speaker 1: helped thee and established in school, you know, making their
27:30
Speaker 1: way every year. Angie, I'm like, oh, dear Lord in heaven,
27:33
Speaker 1: there's there's something else. Now they're teenagers. Now people are
27:37
Speaker 1: going to want them to drink and do drugs and
27:39
Speaker 1: get in trouble and get run over and blah blah
27:41
Speaker 1: blah blah. I'm like, oh, dear Lord, help me live
27:44
Speaker 1: and wait until they go to college. Honey. I know.
27:48
Speaker 1: I'm sure guys like, here she goes again, and what
27:51
Speaker 1: does she wanted this time? But these children are as
27:54
Speaker 1: young as three years old. Well, the three year old
27:58
Speaker 1: is probably going to be a bit better off than
28:01
Speaker 1: the older ones because the three year old will will
28:05
Speaker 1: live a different life than they live. The eight year
28:08
Speaker 1: old is going to be the most affected by this.
28:11
Speaker 1: Because that one's life is going to change. The three
28:14
Speaker 1: year old. Believe it or not, Nancy will if I mean,
28:17
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, but they will fare better
28:19
Speaker 1: than the rest of the children. Why is that because
28:21
Speaker 1: they're new normal. They're going to have a new normal
28:25
Speaker 1: and they're not really going to remember how it used
28:28
Speaker 1: to be, and they'll become very accustomed to their new normal. Okay,
28:33
Speaker 1: that was hard. The other kids are going to be
28:35
Speaker 1: shaken up. The older children will be because their life
28:38
Speaker 1: is going to change. So Tina more joining me the
28:41
Speaker 1: bureau chief at the New York Post Police Bureau. Tina,
28:46
Speaker 1: how do you I mean, I've got it and hauled
28:49
Speaker 1: out witnesses and defendants out of public schools, out of
28:52
Speaker 1: private schools, you name it, off playgrounds. How do you
28:56
Speaker 1: go about finding three girls? The video surveillance is grainy,
29:04
Speaker 1: to say the least. How do you go about finding
29:08
Speaker 1: these five perups that killed the father of four? I
29:12
Speaker 1: don't know what kind of evidence they had from the
29:14
Speaker 1: right itself, if they had anything, any of them dropped anything,
29:18
Speaker 1: or how they summoned the car, maybe to an address
29:22
Speaker 1: where they had been. And then also the older kids
29:26
Speaker 1: were probably easier to find but I'm sure they knew
29:28
Speaker 1: who the younger kids were. I think surprised that police
29:30
Speaker 1: didn't already know who those young girls were at this point.
29:33
Speaker 1: You know, you just brought up something really smart to
29:35
Speaker 1: any more backtracking the fair, the taxi fair, where was
29:39
Speaker 1: the pickup? That's what they do. So I mean, if
29:42
Speaker 1: it's in front of a home, well there you go.
29:45
Speaker 1: Who lives there? Who lives in that neighborhood? And once
29:48
Speaker 1: you crack a case, Peter Smith, here we have five
29:51
Speaker 1: co defendants. If you can catch just one, let's just
29:55
Speaker 1: go to the thirteen year old girl. She'll talk. We hope.
29:59
Speaker 1: How does that work? That's correct? And I think that
30:01
Speaker 1: the state's best best approach here would be to get
30:06
Speaker 1: one of the other children other than mister Amos to flip.
30:12
Speaker 1: You know, he is the one that struck the fatal blow,
30:16
Speaker 1: and if he can get to if the state can
30:19
Speaker 1: get to some of the other perpetrators, they'll be able
30:23
Speaker 1: to use them to prove their case and to identify
30:26
Speaker 1: any anybody who hasn't been identified at this point. Time
30:42
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace Chris Buyer's Forum places Jeff John's
30:47
Speaker 1: Creek at Chris Buyer's investigations a polygraph dot com Chris,
30:51
Speaker 1: how do you do it? How do you without violating
30:54
Speaker 1: the constitution? Of course, how do you get a thirteen
30:59
Speaker 1: year old girl to tell you the names of the
31:01
Speaker 1: other purpose? You just of course with thirteen you're gonna
31:05
Speaker 1: have law enforcement interviewing them and probably somebody from child advocacy,
31:10
Speaker 1: But you just find something. Whenever you've got some mind
31:13
Speaker 1: an interview room, during an interrogation, you find some way
31:17
Speaker 1: to connect with them, some way to show them that
31:20
Speaker 1: by telling what you're looking for is going to be
31:23
Speaker 1: better off on them in the long run. But guys,
31:26
Speaker 1: having a thirteen and year old in there is just
31:29
Speaker 1: it's just tragic and I would hate to be the
31:31
Speaker 1: investigator having to do that. And there arether protections for
31:35
Speaker 1: a minor, they have to have a guardian, or if
31:39
Speaker 1: you can't find a guardian, there are special protections to
31:43
Speaker 1: make sure that what they say is safeguarded constitutionally, so
31:47
Speaker 1: whatever they say will come into evans. Guys, the search
31:52
Speaker 1: for these five thugs is on. Take a listen to
31:56
Speaker 1: our friend Astrid Martinez, police Sailfish. Teen year old girl
32:01
Speaker 1: was taking into custody just a couple of hours ago.
32:04
Speaker 1: This as the search continues for those remaining two suspects.
32:07
Speaker 1: Three people are now in custody in connection with the
32:10
Speaker 1: beating death of a Bronx taxi driver Koutin Gemma. His
32:14
Speaker 1: widow was emotional after hearing of the first to arrest.
32:17
Speaker 1: His life has just been cut short, just like that.
32:22
Speaker 1: Gemma in the red shirt was kicked and punched by
32:25
Speaker 1: a group of passengers after he confronted them. Police say
32:28
Speaker 1: they refused to pay their fare and tried to rob
32:31
Speaker 1: the driver early Saturday in the Far Rockaways, and of
32:35
Speaker 1: course a fifteen year old starts blabbing take a listen
32:40
Speaker 1: to our friend Nicole Johnson at pigs eleven sources tell
32:44
Speaker 1: Picks eleven News. Amos turned himself in with his mother
32:47
Speaker 1: Thursday morning. He has at least six prior arrests, including
32:51
Speaker 1: for robbery, criminal mischief, sexual misconduct. Porter is currently on
32:57
Speaker 1: probation for larceny. Police at least two girls were also involved,
33:02
Speaker 1: ages thirteen and fifteen. This twenty year old guy Austin
33:08
Speaker 1: Amos has quite the criminal history, at least six priors robbery,
33:15
Speaker 1: criminal mischief, criminal contempt, sex misconduct, and then he comes
33:21
Speaker 1: into the station with Mommy supporting him, you know, before
33:28
Speaker 1: I get into him and his six priors, Doctor Keminal Crowns,
33:31
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the data four Kutan Jemma. He laid
33:35
Speaker 1: there on the submit bleeding internally. He was pronounced dead
33:41
Speaker 1: when he finally got to the hospital. That tells me
33:45
Speaker 1: that he laid there and suffered. Victims like this, are
33:50
Speaker 1: they aware of what is happening to them? Do they
33:53
Speaker 1: want to try to get to the phone and call
33:56
Speaker 1: their wife or their family. I mean, he was seen
33:58
Speaker 1: raising his arms to protect himself from the attack, and
34:02
Speaker 1: they continued their onslaught. At one point he got up
34:08
Speaker 1: on his feet and one of the men, who I
34:12
Speaker 1: believe to be Austin Amos, whacked him in the head
34:15
Speaker 1: and it sent him literally flying to the ground. So
34:19
Speaker 1: he was bleeding internally. How would he have died, doctor Kraus,
34:24
Speaker 1: And what would he have been conscious of? Well, so
34:27
Speaker 1: probably with the head injury, he's going to die from
34:30
Speaker 1: the bleeding on his brain. And he probably that last
34:34
Speaker 1: blow he knocked unconscious and is completely unconscious and not
34:39
Speaker 1: really feeling anything. But prior to the last blow, he's
34:44
Speaker 1: you know, he's feeling the pain of the punch, of
34:46
Speaker 1: the fear of being assaulted, not knowing what's going on,
34:49
Speaker 1: and all that. You can with brain bleeds have a
34:53
Speaker 1: period of consciousness where you are still able to function.
34:59
Speaker 1: You'll have a headache, you'll start vomiting and things like
35:01
Speaker 1: that from the injury to the brain. From what I
35:06
Speaker 1: saw in the video, it seems to me at that
35:07
Speaker 1: last blow, he's not unconscious and he's probably not feeling
35:11
Speaker 1: anything at that point, you know what. So it's like
35:15
Speaker 1: salt in the wound. After the five suspects flee the scene,
35:22
Speaker 1: leaving Jemma to bleed out with a fatal head injury
35:26
Speaker 1: lying on the sidewalk, they are actually caught on camera
35:30
Speaker 1: again walking away and heading inside a residential building, and
35:36
Speaker 1: they're all smiling. I'm looking at the video right now.
35:40
Speaker 1: They're all smiling. After they literally take turns. They get
35:46
Speaker 1: the guy down on the ground and they take turns
35:49
Speaker 1: kicking him, and then they're smiling. Peter Smith, high profile
35:56
Speaker 1: defense attorney, What would you do with that other than
35:58
Speaker 1: try to get it suppressed? Your client taking their turn
36:03
Speaker 1: beating the guy already on the ground, kicking in the head,
36:07
Speaker 1: and then they're all smiling and laughing as they walk away.
36:10
Speaker 1: What do you do with that? Peter? Have fun? I
36:13
Speaker 1: appreciate that, Nancy. You know, the biggest issue here, and
36:17
Speaker 1: I know we spoke about it earlier, is always going
36:18
Speaker 1: to be intent. And you know what the intent requirement
36:23
Speaker 1: is for the crime if it is nansaughter? You know,
36:26
Speaker 1: did they intend to cause an injury that was substantial
36:31
Speaker 1: risk of death? Them smiling and laughing? And I hate
36:35
Speaker 1: to say it, but could be evidence of the fact
36:37
Speaker 1: that they did not believe that their actions would cause
36:40
Speaker 1: serious injury to the point of death, and so that
36:45
Speaker 1: they lacked that intent necessary to prove the crime. Good
36:48
Speaker 1: luck with that. I have a question for you, Peter Smith.
36:51
Speaker 1: You're a very wily criminal defense attorney. Isn't it true
36:57
Speaker 1: that under the black and water letter of the law,
37:01
Speaker 1: that the law presumes you intend the natural consequence of
37:08
Speaker 1: your act? For instance, if I took a piece of
37:11
Speaker 1: fine china, you know that china that's so fine you
37:13
Speaker 1: can kind of like see through it, And I take
37:16
Speaker 1: the china and I throw it down on a submit floor,
37:19
Speaker 1: wouldn't the law presume I intended to break it? No,
37:23
Speaker 1: the law is not going to assume that you had
37:25
Speaker 1: that intent. Um, we are all innocent. You intend the
37:30
Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act. So there are always two
37:35
Speaker 1: parts of a crime. There's the men's ray and the
37:37
Speaker 1: actus ray. The actus ray is what you're describing. He
37:40
Speaker 1: threw the plate down on the ground and it broke.
37:43
Speaker 1: The other side of that is, though, is the intent,
37:46
Speaker 1: and the law is not going to presume to know
37:49
Speaker 1: what your intent is. They still have to prove that. Um.
37:53
Speaker 1: So in this case, they would have to prove that
37:56
Speaker 1: the perpetrators intended to cause serious bodily injury that could
38:01
Speaker 1: result in death. And you know, there's a possibility that
38:04
Speaker 1: in the commission of their original crime, theft of services
38:09
Speaker 1: and they were trying to get away, that they did
38:12
Speaker 1: not have that intent. What do you think would be
38:14
Speaker 1: the natural consequence of checking someone repeatedly in the head?
38:19
Speaker 1: I mean, the natural consequence of the natural intent could
38:23
Speaker 1: be to simply delay them from continuing to pursue you,
38:29
Speaker 1: and not necessarily to cause death or to cause serious
38:32
Speaker 1: bible injury. Yeah, this is not the first time a
38:35
Speaker 1: cabby or a delivery person has fallen prey to jackals
38:39
Speaker 1: like these five. I don't know if the name Ryan
38:43
Speaker 1: graham Mus jogs your memory, but this will take a
38:47
Speaker 1: listener for is at NBC five. Wife and mother of
38:50
Speaker 1: three small children, Ryan Graham Monsey, was working her Uber
38:54
Speaker 1: each delivery job Saturday night when she was murdered. Found
38:58
Speaker 1: in the breezeway of the Northern as Apartments in Haltham City.
39:01
Speaker 1: I believe she was delivering food to somebody in that building.
39:04
Speaker 1: The thirty one year old did not make it to
39:06
Speaker 1: the customer's door before she was killed. A motive isn't
39:10
Speaker 1: being made public there. You see this wife and mom
39:14
Speaker 1: of three working Uber eights on Saturday night. Attack, just
39:19
Speaker 1: doing her job, and she's not the only one. Joshua
39:24
Speaker 1: Ungerma listen. Flaffia Police were called to this address just
39:27
Speaker 1: after eleven pm last night. When they arrived, they found
39:30
Speaker 1: two men shot and killed in the street. One of
39:34
Speaker 1: them was a Domino's pizza delivery driver. The Domino store
39:38
Speaker 1: less than a mile away confirms thirty seven year old
39:40
Speaker 1: Josh Ungersma was making deliveries last night. Josh was a
39:44
Speaker 1: delivery driver for us for over a year. He was
39:47
Speaker 1: a great guy and a great employee who was working
39:51
Speaker 1: a second job to provide for his family. Two doctor
39:54
Speaker 1: Abela Arnold. People out working, trying to support their family.
40:00
Speaker 1: I'm very curious about the thinking of predators that attack them. Well, Nancy,
40:05
Speaker 1: do you think that necessarily the predators are just attacking
40:08
Speaker 1: them because they're out working. I have a feeling that
40:10
Speaker 1: they're out working and that makes them that makes them
40:14
Speaker 1: an easy target because they're out and about. I don't
40:17
Speaker 1: necessarily think that the predators think, oh, this person's working,
40:20
Speaker 1: unless they're thinking about the money they may have on them.
40:23
Speaker 1: To Tina Moore joining us the New York Police, what
40:27
Speaker 1: happens now, and they've got to get I agree it's
40:30
Speaker 1: the person. I believe it was the attorney, because they
40:33
Speaker 1: they've got to get probably one of these kids to
40:35
Speaker 1: turn on what else happened here, right for like to
40:38
Speaker 1: get too intent, like you know, what was their intent
40:41
Speaker 1: or were they trying to do? And they have the
40:45
Speaker 1: main person, the puncher killer identified at this point and
40:48
Speaker 1: in custody, and they have two other people in custody,
40:51
Speaker 1: so finding Like I said, I think they already probably knew.
40:54
Speaker 1: I'm sure they know who the other two girls are
40:56
Speaker 1: at this point. It's a matter of figuring out how
40:59
Speaker 1: that's with their evidence together to build a strong case
41:02
Speaker 1: against the people they want to charge, but the most
41:04
Speaker 1: serious charges. There is a fifteen thousand dollar reward go
41:09
Speaker 1: to one eight hundred five seven seven tips one eight
41:14
Speaker 1: hundred five seven seven eight four seven seven. There is
41:18
Speaker 1: also a go fund Me online for Koten Gemma ku
41:24
Speaker 1: t i n g y i m a h a
41:29
Speaker 1: husband and father. We wait as justice sun falls. Nancy
41:34
Speaker 1: Grace Clubs story signing off Goodbye Friend,