Latest / The You Project / #1678 Are Dogs Self-Aware & Is Your Vacuum Spying On You? - Patrick Bonello

Transcript

#1678 Are Dogs Self-Aware & Is Your Vacuum Spying On You? - Patrick Bonello · The You Project

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, a team, it's Patrick, it's Harps, it's no. If
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: it's it's a tipless, it's a tipless episode. But I
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: tell you what, Nonetheless, we will put on our big
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: boy pants, Patrick and Soldier on might't we I'm.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Not wearing any pants.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Well are you just? Are you free balling or what
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: are you doing? I really don't, I really don't. But
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: here is straight off the bat.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Straight off the bat, it doesn't take to hit the
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: kind of the low the belt. Literally, it certainly doesn't
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: if you were wearing a belt. I always wear a belt.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I wear a belt on the cargoes because one
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: of the problems with having huge legs and are not
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: so huge waist is that you've always got to have
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: pants are a little bit looser in the waist unless
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: you take your cargo shorts to the lady slash man
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: who fixes all that stuff.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: But I can't be bothered.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how personal I should get with our conversation,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: and it's kind of a serious personal thing. My family
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: doesn't listen to this, so I know we've spoken about this,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: but never on air. We're having family issues where I'm
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: looking after my younger disabled brother every weekend and then
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: coming up November it'll be for three days every weekend
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: and it's great and it's good spending time with him
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: because we haven't really done a lot of that. But
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Jason's very short and he has an unusual body shape.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: He's got a bit of a belly, but he's got
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: zero ass, so he's got to wear races. And I've
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: been spending my time and he's great. He loves trains,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: so he took a train trip the last time he
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: was here, just a Ballarat and back. He had the
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: best time and the conductor was amazing. It's great. I
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: think conductors on those vline trains they're so considerate. They're
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: just wonderful to speak to. But one of the biggest challenges,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and I know if anybody out there has been a
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: care for an elderly parent or someone, the biggest challenges
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: is using the bathroom and being a bad shot.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: And I can imagine on a moving Oh it's not
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: on the train, this is even station, right, Okay, Okay.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: My sister in law has been so good because they've
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: taken in my brother who can't live with my dad anymore,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: at the retirement village, and so she's been amazing. She's
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: washing his clothes every day and doing stuff for him,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: and so what they are doing is probably ten times
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: harder than what I'm doing. But you do have to
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: clean the bathroom every time he goes, and so I've
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: been trying to convince him to sit down to go.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: But the problem is, because of his unfortunate body shape,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: is he has to wear braces to keep his pants
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: up right. So have you got.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Braces, Craig, Yes, yes, I can imagine the problem with
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: braces is they're not practical in an emergency situation.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, but he's the dar. He's really been
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: trying hard enough, kind of said to him, Look, when
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: you're living at my place, maybe we can get you
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: to sit down when you go to the toilet. Oh no, no, no,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Dad says, I have to stand up. Yeah I know that,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: but when you're at my place, maybe you can sit down.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So it's taken a few months and now he's I'm
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: with dad.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I'm with Dad. Don't you dare? After? How old is
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: he fifty?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: He's fifty two.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: After fifty two years of standing, let him fucking stand.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Don't try and reinvent the wheel just because you're worried
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: about a bit of we on your floor.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Okay, the walls, the floor, it's not just about you
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: and you. He're home beautiful.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: But you know it's funny, isn't it? How simple requirements?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: You know, we've been watching train trips on v line,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: just on the TV on the big screen. I'm going
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: to fill right TV. So we just plug in the
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: laptop and we watch trips from Melbourne to Bendigo and
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Melbourne to Ballarat and it just you know, I shouldn't
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: say nerdy people. I'm a nerd, but those train spotters
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: they just get a camera and they just record the
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: whole trip something that hour of footage and he loves it.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: It's been really good.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a show on is it SBS? Maybe
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: this is what you're talking about, but there's a show
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I think it's on SBS, and they literally do. They
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: have these like three hour docos which are silent. There's
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: no commentary. It's just the sounds of the train or
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the ship or the whatever. But I think, is it
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: the gan that goes across.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: He's desperate for me to take him on the gang.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I watched one and it's just like it
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: just obviously it's days and days of footage kind of
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: condensed and edited into this beautiful kind of three hour
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: but you would think. I remember turning it on and
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: thinking what is this? Then I had to look it
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: up and it's like it's a three hour silent doco
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: of Miko the fuck would watch this? And then an
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: hour later I'm still watching it. Transfixed train trips.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I did a train trip my last trip to Canada
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: through the Canadian Rockies, and I was on the train
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: for three days and I'm going to tell you, no
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Internet amazing views of the just the the stunning, the
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: beautiful Canadian wild wilderness. And it's great. And you go
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to a little reading car or a dining car, you
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: go to the bar and sit there and they have
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: these perspect perspects viewing roofs in something where you can
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: sit back watch the sky go past. It is and
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: there's something about train travel that's meditative, that that kind
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: of and and I love sleeping on the train as well,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: you know, so if you if you can get a
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: little cabin and mine was tiny. It was a fold
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: down bed and had a little toy and all that
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff. And it was just great. If you
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: look for specials and you know, because they can be
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: quite expensive. But I just kind of jumped online and
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: found some deals and had a great time.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Can I ask, what's your brother's name again?
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Jason?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: How old is Jason? Intellectually? Like, what's his kind of functional?
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: IQ? Kind? Not IQ? But you know he's age five
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: or six? Yeah? Okay, So I have a cute story.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: So last night I did a gig for the eighty
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: nine point nine Light FM, Melbourne's Positive alternative. They were
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: running two big, two big mental health events. One one
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: last night. Hundreds I don't know, five or six hundred
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: people won the night before, six or seven hundred. I
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: spoke at both events. Anyway, last night, Oh my goodness,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I had the best night, right I was. I was
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: talking at quarter to nine and I was up yesterday
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: at five. So I was driving there thinking, I don't
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: know how I'm going to do this. I'm probably going
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: to be rubbish. Fortunately, when I got to to the place,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: they had a cafe in the boyer and I got
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: some caffeine on board, and I'm like, okay, I'm started
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to perk up. Anyway, two people spoke before me doctor
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Jody Richardson and doctor Ken I forget his surname, but brilliant. Anyway,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I'm on last, and I get up and I start
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: tom gunn Okay, I'm riffing, you know, like I'm a bit.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: The other two are very very professional and slide show
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: and very grown up, and you know, I'm like.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: The dog with three dicks up there in the flannel
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: shirt and the jeans and like different, not better or
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: not worse, just different energy and different vibe and having fun.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: And then I'm about three minutes in and this young
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: lady who I don't know how old she is, but
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I would say sixteen to eight en, but I could
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: be totally wrong on that, just starts laughing hysterically at
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: my not particularly funny.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Joke, like really loud. And then and then you're like, yeah,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: and clearly a young girl with a disability sitting next
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: to her mum.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And she was awesome, right, And then I was talking
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: about a few minutes later or I don't know, and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: she kept yelling out and so I just went with
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: it and I would say something mildly funny and she
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: would crack up hysterically, and I'm like, what's your name,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: and she goes mal like, I'm Mel, can you come
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: to all of my events because you're amazing. I've got
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: a gig with some old stuffy corporates next Monday. Are
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: you available? You know, I'd love you, you know. So
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: there was this whole banter, right, and then then I
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: was telling the story about Jumbo, the fat kid at
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the swimming sports. Then she goes Jumbo and then she
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: starts screaming out, hey, he jumpbo all through my thing, right.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Oh my god.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: And so I was up there with like six hundred
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: or five hundred people and Mel screaming in the front,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and she was just awesome. She was such a good
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: kid and such good energy, and it could have potentially
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: derailed everything, but it actually made it better. And I
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: finished and her mom came up with her and we
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: all took a photo together, and her mom was like,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, she is. I genuinely mean, she's fantastic.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 3: It's like when imagine not caring that much, in fact,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: not even knowing that not that she should be embarrassed
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: or not that she should be awkward, but just not
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: that's not even a thought. So free and so liberated
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: and she had the best time.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I had the best time, and the audience loved it
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: as well. You know, it could have been a clunky experience,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: but it just turned out great.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: I loved it.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I think people who have special needs really can teach
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: us a lot, and it may be different things. You know,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: the people who formerly owned my house, I've kept in
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: contact with beautiful people. And the husband is blind and
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: he taught me so much about the world when you
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: are devoid of one sense. Now he's a petrol head.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: He loves car racing, loves cars, and just having conversations
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: with David is so much fun because it makes you
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: think about how you can interact with someone with a
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: disability when it even comes to simple things like you know,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: I saw this yesterday. Well he can't, you know, he's
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: very used to this, and he's a really smart guy.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: But I love looking through the world through his ears
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: and through interactions and through sense and touch and making
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: sure that I'm really descriptive when I talk to him,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: and that I'm really mindful and respectful of where he
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: or how he takes in the world. And I love that.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: And that's the same with my brother. You know, the
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: simple enjoyment of just getting on a train and there
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: and watching the countryside speed past and going up to Ballarat,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and then we hung around in the cafe and had
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: a dream. Can then wait for the train to turn
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: around and come back again, and then we jump back
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: on the train again and came home. But it was
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun. And again those simple things that
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: we sometimes don't think about or take for granted, sometimes
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: through the eyes of somebody else can make us really
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: reevaluate what is important or the things that the little
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: things in life.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that one hundredsent agree. And also.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: That's very smart of you, Like, that's very naturally socially
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and emotionally intelligent of you, Like trying to understand the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: world through someone else's perception or through someone else's window experiences.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: You know, like you can't see, but you're trying to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: see in inverted commas what he sees in inverted commas,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and that, you know, in psych that's called theory of mind.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Is trying to understand how someone else perceives things, or
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: how someone else thinks, or how someone else sees the
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: world or sees the situation or see the conversation. In
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: other words, trying to put yourself in their psychological and
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: or emotional experience, and that a lot of people are
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: terrible at that, and a lot of people don't think
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: about that. So, you know, realizing what you're doing in
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: real time is that you and him might be in
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the same conversation but clearly not the same experience, or
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you might be in the same situation or circumstance or environment,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: but just understanding that, you know, the way that you
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: need to connect with him and understand him and communicate
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: with him is very him specific, you know, versus talking
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: to somebody who who has vision. But that's yeah, that's
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: very high order kind of social intelligence that you naturally do.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: So well done.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: You thanks mate. You know, I went to the twenty
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: first birthday of one of his sons recently, who jumps
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: online as part of our online gaming group, and you know,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I was there the lunch. It was therest out of winery,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: and you know, because I've known the family for years,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: it's really great, you know, they were you know, when
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: you buy a house, sometimes the real estate agent leaves
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: a bottle of champagne or something. Well, that doesn't happen
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: very often, but the family who were vacating the house
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: left a gift pack for me, like with brochures on
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: things to do, you know, champagne flutes and bottle of
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: champagne and chocolates and coffee sachets and you know, and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: come and you know, make sure you come and have
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: dinner with us once you've got settled in. Just amazing people,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: which is back up a friendship, and we've become good friends.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: The only thing that really Alex, who is there son
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: who turned twenty one, has got to stop saying to
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: people that Patrick sleeps in my bedroom because it's his
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: old room is my room. And it's like, ah, nah,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: just really uncomfortable with that.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Ah, just let him go. How old is twenty one?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: He does it deliberately, of course, to take the piss
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: and knows that I find it really creepy. He says that.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: But what I was getting at is when we're at
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the twenty first now his younger brother is seventeen, and
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: you know what's about their family. His father needed to
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: go to the toilet, and so his youngest son just
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: got up and said, yeah, come on, dad, let's go.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: How many seventeen year old boys would feel comfortable taking
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: their father to the toilet.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that's a good question, but I guess
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: that's really because you've just grown up around that, right.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: That's just what has that taught them about being people
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: who are considerate young people who are considerate of people
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: around them. And how much better a person has that
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: made them understanding that they need to contribute to the
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: family and that they can feel comfortable in themselves to
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: be a part of that dynamic. I think it's made
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: them much more rounded people. I think it's lovely to
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: see people who don't have reservations about being caring about
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: a parent who has a disability.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I think I think being around, whether or not it's
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: growing up around or being around or having friends with disabilities.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: And you know, as you know, I've been working with
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Johnny in the gym for the last six years, who's
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: got a spinal cord injury, and he started training in
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: a wheelchair and then eventually to a frame and now
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: he's walking with a stick. But you know, it's an
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: undertaking for him to walk twenty feet, you know, And
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: so I mean he can, but it just it takes
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: him ten times longer than it would take you to
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: walk twenty feet, and so I'm often walking around the.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Gym with him and I'm helping him, and I'm.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Either holding his hand or holding his arm or kind
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: of lifting him half lifting him up and down off
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: a bench. And I don't even think about it when
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying a great bloke. I'm saying, it's just
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: a byproduct of being around someone. And sometimes I'll be
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: through the gym where I'm helping him from one bench
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: to another exercise, and here's these two you know, old blokes,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and one of them's holding the other bloke's hand, and
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I don't even I'm not aware of it until I
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: see a seventeen year old staring at me, like what
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the fuck are they doing? You know, it's like, no,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: well it's okay, mate, you know, and it's like and
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: there's no, it's just not a typical thing. But then
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: you don't because it's so automatic now because I've trained
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: him probably thousands of times, where it's just you know, like,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm constantly and the crab is the same.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Mark's amazing as well, my training partner and everyone. It's
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: like you're just naturally doing these things without drawing attention
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to it or without overthinking it. But I definitely think
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you know, and it's beautiful the relationship you've got with
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: your brother mate, and it's and your friend who's you know,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't have sight. I think for us as humans, it's
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I'm very at the risk of sounding naf and lame,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know trite. I'm very grateful
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: for all of the interactions I have with people whose
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: life and situation is tougher than mine, because I think
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I could be a pain in the ass unless I
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: had that gratitude and that awareness that I'm very, very
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: lucky and very privileged to have what I have. And
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I don't just mean things, I mean physically, mentally and emotionally,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: you know, to be able to as we've spoken about before,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: but to be able to get out of a chair
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: and go and turn on a tap and there's cold water,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: and push a button and there's some heat, and open
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: a door and there's food inside that door. And then
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like we live in especially you and
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: me anyway, and privileged Australia. Not that everyone's privileged in Australia,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: but a lot of us, you know, we've got it
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: pretty good.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very very very much, so very much.
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: So.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Hey, I know we generally talk about tech stuff, and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I think when you asked me to do the potty
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: a little bit earlier than usual, I said, I've got
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: much together. But you know what, I did, throw some
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: stuff together for us.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: All Right, I'm ready.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Let's let's let's get out of human behavior and into technology.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I've got no notes in front of me, so you
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: need to be the host for the next half hour.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: You need to host.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: All right, it sounds good. I found this fascinating. Google,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: with all the data processing due to AI, is now
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: put an order in to buy nuclear power like so
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: they need more power for their data centers. This is
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a world's first deal. It was an article that was
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: in the Guardian newspaper yesterday or the day before. So
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: they've ordered six or seven small nuclear reactors from a
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Californian power supplier and they need it to power all
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: the data processing, the staggering amount of data that's getting
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: processed now due to AI. Because every time you do
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: an AI search as opposed to a normal Google search,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you're exponentially doing needing a data center that can do
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: a lot more processing power. So these AI data centers
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: are running twenty four to seven. They're absolutely going off
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: tap at the moment. And it's exponential in terms of
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: the growth as well, because what's happening is more and
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: more companies are getting onto the AI bandwagon, and as
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: a consequence, they're needing bigger, more processing power, and that,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: as a consequence means not just power, but water as
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: well cooling systems. So they use water and they use
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of electricity. And we're talking a shit ton.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: That's a technical term, by the way.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I've just wrote that down.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's actually a tangible figure.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Is it a megawatch shit tone?
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Well probably Gigawa shit tone?
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: How many?
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: How many killer wat's per megawatch ship tone? I don't know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: just I'm just trying to get the metrics right.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: I'm just taking professor. Now, can I just ask a question.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: When you said they've ordered seven nuclear reactors, I don't
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: exactly know what that means. What do you mean they're
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: buying their own fucking dedicated nuclear energy?
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I know, but what is that?
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: What's a nuclear reactor? Does that create nuclear energy?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it uses nuclear I mean effectively, it uses nuclear
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: power or nuclear the you know you're harnessing the atom.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: It's a nuclear power plant that generates life.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the fuck it's what. I'm not physics.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Oh no, I can't only tell you about humans.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Well, in the nuclear power plant plant process, what they
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: do is they split the atom that creates energy, and
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: then they use that energy to hit water, and water
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: spins a turbine, and a turbine then generates electricity. That
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I think that's the rudimentary and.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Hell, by the way, everyone, do not listen to us
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: to I'm the biggest dickhead, but maybe don't listen to
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: him either, because that could be all bullshit.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Google, if Tip was here, should be googling this right now.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: That's okay, that's all right. So there, so you're doing it,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: are you?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: All right, here we go explain. You just go into
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: chatters chat GPT and say, simply explain.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Comes from nuclear fission. Nuclear power reactors use heat produced
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: during atomic fission to boil water produce pressurized steam. Steam
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: is routed through the reactor steam system to spin a
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: large turbine blade drives mechnetic generators to produce electricity.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Exactly what I just said. The fucking nothing like what
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: I did. Come on, come on, all right, So all right,
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: the bottom line is Google are going nuclear.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I worry about with the exponential kind of acceleration of
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: all things tech, there's also an exponential expanse of requirement
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: for more and more power. As you've already said, you know,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I wonder when we get to that point of you know,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: energy extinction, like the can't be.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not infinite now were the worrying is
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: at the moment that at presently there's more demand on
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: cold fire generating of power because what I mean here
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: in Australia we don't have there's only one nuclear reactor
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: and it's used for medical purposes, but of it is
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: there's a lot more pressure, so it's putting pressure across
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the entire system. In the United States, they're turning to
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: nuclear because obviously for them, it's a cleaner alternative. And
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I know people there's a lot of arguments for and
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: against nuclear power plants. They've been around for a long
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: time and so a good example is the fact that Westinghouse,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the company that may have made your fridge, also makes
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: the e Vincy. Now the e Vinchy is a micro
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: nuclear reactor, and they're being built and they claim to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: be able to deliver five megawatts of power up to
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: one hundred months, So that's eight years of power, right,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: That's a staggering amount of power to be able to
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And these are specifically being designed for lots of different purposes.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: They're even talking about sending one of these to the moon,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: so potentially lunar missions could use these micro nuclear reactors.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of research being done specifically to
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: combat the issue of this demand on power.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm I'm not even close
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: to an expert in any of this stuff, of course,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm just a bloke listening to someone who knows slightly
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: more than me, I say.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Fucking slightly. But to me it would seem that move
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I mean an obvious statement.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: But you know, energy moving forward is just not just
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: energy for electricity and day to day operation, but energy
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: for humans in terms of the quality of energy, calories, food,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: micro and macro nutrients.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: So energy to make you know, computers and.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Cars and organizations work, but also energy to make humans work.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I think there's a kind of a dual kind of
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: energetic issue that's looming.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Well, it's already here.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I guess you know how my brain works, which is
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a bit confusing for anybody listening to our podcast, but
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: a litt alone for me who has to cope with
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: it on a day to day basis. But yes, to
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: go through my mind sometimes. When I was hiking this morning,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I went to a place called Bosstoc Reservoir, so I
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: probably not very far, maybe went about five kilometers this morning.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Out in the bush, Fritz saw a wallaby and chase
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the wallaby, but he didn't get close to because there's
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: no way a miniature now is going to catch a wallaby,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: and he wouldn't want to do anyway, but.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: If he did, the wallaby would kick the fuck out
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: of him.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: But okay, yeah, but you know what fascinates me about
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: You were talking about the biomechanics, and I'm pretty good
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: with my feeding of Fritz. He gets usually a half
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: a cup of food or a cup of dry food
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and then something else, so I supplement it with bits
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and pieces and a few vegetables and things. But what
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: blows my mind is he gets fed once a day
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: and maybe gets a treat after the walk. How the
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: hell is he able to run in the bush? Probably
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: four or five times the distance that I do. He
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: does all the things that he does. He's so active.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: We do the zuomies, we throw toys. The fact that
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: that machine, that biological machine, can do so much with
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: main feed a day blows my mind.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Well, they're very metabolically efficient. But also, I mean, you
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: weigh probably twenty to thirty times what he weighs. Yeah, right,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: so you think, what does he way? Five ks?
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: No, he's about eight eight and a half.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, and what are you about? Sixty five sixty eight? Yeah,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: so you're about six and a half times his weight. Yeah,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: so you put if you figured out his calories and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: times by six and a half, it's probably about the same.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: But you don't do zoomies and you don't chase wallabies.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: So you do make a good point.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: But I mean, the beauty of dogs is I mean, well,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I was going to say dogs don't eat junk food,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: but that's not true depending on the owner. By the way,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: owners who feed their dogs junk fuck. It makes me mad,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Like when you see dogs that are just morbidly obese
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: because their owners literally make them fat by fucking makes
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: me mad because you don't see that you don't see
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: that with any other animals except animals who are genetically
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: required to be fat for survival.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: But anyway, no, he doesn't need that much food. That's
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: the point. But also I feel like dogs miss out
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: because you know how we get so much pleasure from food.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what, they get so much pleasure
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: from being off lead, running around, exploring, sniffing. They smell everything.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: It's like social media. They love it. They pee on things,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: they smell other dogs pee, They sniff bums. They do
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: so many fun.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Things, letting them go different ways. So hang on, tiff,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: can you make that a real please? They sniff bums.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: They do so many fun things. Let's just capture that,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: will we They sniff bums, They do so many fun things.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: They smell pee. The fuck is wrong with you? What
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: makes you think any of that compares to a pizza
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: or fucking cheesecake?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, sure, sure, they're diets boring, but they
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: get to sniff asses and we oh wow, that fuck
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: you sold me.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: I'm changing. I'm going to become a greyhound. Oh, I am.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Putting myself in the realm of the dog because I'm
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: trying to look at it from a dog's perspective?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Are you using theory of mind with canine's Canine theory
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: of mind with Patrick? Welcome back to today's episode Through
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the Eyes of a Dog. I'm Patricks.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Someone told me that today that dogs aren't self aware.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: So elephants are.
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: Are?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Some animals are. But if a dog looks at a mirror,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: it doesn't see itself, it just sees another dog.
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: Is that's true?
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: It's I think dogs are.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: That is a very good question, and if I'm being
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: totally honest, I don't know the answer. But that makes
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: sense to me. But I think that they look at
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you googling. I think that they are definitely aware of
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: other people's needs and emotions, and I think they are
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: especially with dogs that are very very bonded with their
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: human I was going to say owner.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I hate the word owner.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I don't use it. I don't use the word owner.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I think they're human, they're person and yep, their dad,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: their mum, there, whatever. I think they are very attuned
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: to the needs and emotions and even mental states of
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: they're human. But self awareness is a slippery slope in general.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't surprise me that.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: But then, how do you know, well, like looked at
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: two articles, one from the Smithsonian magazine that says dogs
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: may be more self aware than experts thought, and then
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: the second one is from an article on the website
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: earth dot com, and it says that although dogs can't
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: identify themselves in the mirror, they still have some levels
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: of self awareness. They ace other self recognition tests, they
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: can recognize their own odor, and they can recall memories
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: of specific events. So there you go.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Should we ask Chap GPT go for it?
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: All? Right?
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: On?
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yep?
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: On are dogs self aware?
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: Dogs have a level of self awareness, but it's not
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: quite like human self awareness. They show signs of understanding
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: their own bodies and movements, and they can recognize their
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: own scent. However, in tests like the mirror test, which
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: measures self recognition, dogs generally don't recognize themselves. They might
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: see their reflection as another dog or just ignore it.
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: So while they have some degree of self awareness, it's
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: more limited compared to humans.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks shatters here you get well, yeah, I think also,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: And also you got to remember, even with chat JPT,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: they're just drawing on whatever's on the Internet that they
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: access at the time.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Too. But interesting, all right, what else you got for
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: us tech boy.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: While we're talking about AI and we know it's a
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: billion dollar industry. Now here's an article that I read
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: recently that actually frightened me a little bit in terms
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: of what it means in the implications. So this article
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: was in published on the Conversation and it's stated that
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: that AI is being underpinned by an exploited workforce. So
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: what does that actually mean? There are you know, we
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: think about people working putting garments together and working in sweatshops.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: There's one part of AI we don't think about, and
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: it's data labeling. So data comes in and the human
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: operator has to label that data to explain what it is.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: So if it's a picture of Craig, it's said handsome,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: middle aged man, big guns. You know, it's got to
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: come up with something, right. But the interesting thing is that,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: you know, with the AI industry expected to be worth
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: about four hundred and seven billion US dollars by twenty
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: twenty seven, right, that's not a long way away. The
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: problem is that there's up to one hundred data labelers
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: for each AI and all these AI workers are in
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: places like Kenya and they work for these companies like Facebook,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Scale AI, Open AI, all that sort of stuff, and
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: the thing is that they're on really crap conditions and wages.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: So data abeling, So this is the basically you take
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: the raw data, images, video, text, and then you say
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: to AI, this is what you are seeing, this is
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: what you are hearing, so that AI can understand what
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: it is and whether it's self driving cars, smart devices, chat, GPT,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: all that stuff has to be labeled because AI thrives
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: on data and these data models that they have to
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: keep updating. So for AI to continue to be as
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: smart as it is, you've got to keep updating it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: So these data sets need to be updated and refreshed regularly.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: They cannot work without them. So tech giants so Meta, Google, OpenAI, Microsoft,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: They outsource all of this stuff to the Filmilippines, Kenya, India, Pakistan, Venezuela, Colombia,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: and now China of course is jumping on the bandwagon
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: as well. So this has become an ethical thing that
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I guess we in the Western world, sitting on the
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: other end of a phone or a computer or a tablet,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: just don't think about the implications. And look, there's moves.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I think Joe Biden was looking at some sort of
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: international agreement. But the reality of it is, I don't
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: know what we can do. I mean, we're getting we're
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: using it as we speak, you know, we've just within
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: the last ten minutes. So well, it's good to be
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: aware of it.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but also you I mean, wow, I find that
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: not hard to believe, but I find that curious that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: you know, on some level, there's people sitting in some
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: third world country, potentially third world country, looking at images
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: and describing that image, and that's part of the very
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: very very high tech evolved.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: You know system that we're in the middle. How is
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: that happening in twenty twenty four?
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Like and not?
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Can't AI itself?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Hasn't it been trained and developed to a point where
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: it can look at me and go, you know, middle
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: aged I can white bloke with a bad attitude. Can't
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: it do that all by itself?
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Now? No? The problem with that is if you're using
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: AI to train AI, that's your AI cannibalism. Isn't it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Not to train AI?
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: But surely surely it can look at pretty much anything
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: now and figure out what it is. Like, do we
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: still need people to be going, Oh, that's a train,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: that's a yellow train with red wheels.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: People are better at it. People are much better at it.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: We adapt. You know, the reality of it is that
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: it's a good thing. That there's an oversight in some ways,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: but at this stage it appears is not. It appears
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: that the industry needs this, and when people are being
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: paid between say you're in Venezuela, you're being paid between
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: ninety cents and two dollars US an hour to do
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: this generally mindless work.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I think? I don't know.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever We've kind of spoken about this,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: but not in any great detail. I think there's a vast,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: vast chasmhole in the in what's happening right now in
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: terms of the role out and the I guess the
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: overwhelm of technology. You know, we've spoken about my mum
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: and dad a bit with tech, and you know that
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: now I've taken over the paying of all of their
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: bills electronically because mum and dad were freaked out, because
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, the truth is that there are
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: even in Australia, there are millions of people who are
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: not tech savvy, who are constantly having problems with navigating
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: world that is very, very very different to the one
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: twenty years ago. And of course technology brings with it
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: great advantages, but it also brings potential or many potential problems.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: What I mean, there's no answer to this, but or
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: there's no immediate answer. But being able to create technology
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: that is truly user friendly, truly user friendly for people
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: who don't understand technology, I mean, I think that's the
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: next great bloody opportunity or the great the next great
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: problem to be solved, because you know, even for me
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: and I use technology all day every day, we're using
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: it right now, I've got multiple computers, phones. You know,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I'm my life, my business, my career is dependent on it.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: And I'm still a complete fucking dummy compared to you,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and you're a complete dummy compared to someone else. But
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: then you take at one level beyond me and you
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: go then there are like my mum and dad who
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: do not know how to pay a bill unless it's
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: with a check or cash. You know, how do we
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: look after those people moving forward? Because it seems like
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: they're not really being hated.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: For the digital haves and have nots. I guess it's
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: probably people maybe fifty up because they didn't grow up
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: in a schooling environment with technology. They may have not
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: adopted technology because they didn't need it for their job
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: if they were in a trade or they did something
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: that didn't require them to be on computers. And I mean,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: do you remember when they started rolling out atm machines,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: how lot people just didn't know how to use them
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: and struggled with them. And there's still concerns for a
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: lot of older people. For me, you asked two kind
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: of really pertinent questions there. One is how do we
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: support and help the people right now who are in
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: that digital divide, who are part of the other side
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: of the digital divide? And I guess it's compassion from
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: the banking system, from those services, you know, whether you're
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: going to my other account and being able to still
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: have face to face contact and saying, well, you know,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: the reality of it is, if someone's over the age
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: of sixty or seventy, they may still need to walk
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: into a bank and sit down and talk to their
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: bank teller, their bank manager, and we need to not
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: force them onto technology because maybe beyond them, we need
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: to understand that some people a they may not be willing,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: but be they may be frightened. They may have many
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: reasons for being part of the digital divide. So I think,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: first of all, as a society, we need to be
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: more compassionate to those people and not force them to
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: do something. COVID forced a little of people to work
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: out what a Q code was, but a lot of
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: people stressed over that, so it's difficult for those people.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: But the secondary thing is, and I think the exciting
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: thing from the next level up and it won't help
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: your parents, but it may help us and people younger
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: than us as we get older. Is as technology and
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: AIS in implemented, is getting technology that doesn't just have
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: a this one way to turn something on and off.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: If you think about it, if you ask different ways,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: you know, you can use different phrases to say the
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: same thing to try to get the same results. But
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: generally most computers are binary. It's yes or no, it's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: off or on. But with the deployment of things like AI,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: it will make technology easier because you know, I envisited
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: a time where we won't be using phones anymore. We'll
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: have a pair of our glasses will project the information
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: we need hovering in front of us like a heads
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: up display. Your car has a heads up display, doesn't
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: it your new car?
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So it's not obtrusive at all, and in
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: fact it helps with the road experience because you're not
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: looking down at your speedo. But I could imagine a
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: future where I would just say, you know, what's the
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: weather going to be today, and tell me that without
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: searching for an app, without going going to a Google
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: search bar and typing that in. So I think as
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: technology becomes more used friendly, then hopefully for us and
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: people who's substantly come along, you won't have the barriers.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: We won't have keyboards to worry about. We will have conversations.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: You just had a conversation with chat GPT and that
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: was very natural. And the thing about a lot of
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: these searches now is they remember what we previously spoke about.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: So if you can think about your experiences of using
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: a phone and then putting it all into smart glasses,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: it's hovering there. Quite often. We don't need to look
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: at our phone. If you want to call me and
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: you say call Patrick Bonello, you don't need to go
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: through your contact list. It verifies it's you and then
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: the call gets initiated. So for me Hopefully we'll get
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: a hybrid of this that will help your parents down
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: the track, maybe, you know, if they get more and
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: more comfortable, at least with using voice activation. It takes
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: screens and keyboards and mice away from people who may
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: have problems with it.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Even my little old car that I get around then,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: which is a five year old Suzuki. It's not that old,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, it's and it's just
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: really it's a Suzuki Swift that's super basic. There's a
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: button on the thing which is like a bloke talking
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: or a person talking. I press that and I go
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: call Patrick, and the lady goes calling Patrick Bonello, you know,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: and then it rings you. I don't even I know
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: where that button is without even looking at the steering wheel.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I can just watch the road, press that button with
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: my thumb and tell my car to call you when
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: it does. And I mean that's five or six year
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: old technology. But I mean everything you're saying I agree with,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: and I think moving forward it's great. And I'm a
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: little bit selfish and I'm a little bit biased with
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: this because of my eighty four and five year old parents.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: But like, hands down, at the moment. Hands down, my
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: mum's biggest source of anxiety is technology because it's scarce
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: a shit out of her and she doesn't know, you know,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: in my mom Like my mum's got an iPhone, she
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: literally doesn't know how to use it other than to
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: make a call and get a call, you know, and
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: even I could, you know, I've tried to teach her
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: so many times how to do that. She can she
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: can send texts, but even then it's pretty clunky. But
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: I will send her a text and she it'll go,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: she'll get it, but she doesn't get it because she
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: never thinks to look or that little sign in the
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: window or whatever.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: You know. It's like, I don't know. I guess there's
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: no answer.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: But it's like we're so brilliant, we're so advanced at
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: solving problems, and we can do you know, we can
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: we can do pretty much anything now, but we can't
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: create a way for old people who aren't technologically minded
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: or trained. It'd be great if we could produce something
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: which for them is just as easy as talking to
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: a human.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Or having a human interaction.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Because you think about the percentage of people in Australia
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: who are say older than sixty and that's the.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Group we're talking about.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I would guess
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: it would be somewhere in the three four million range.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a lot of humans, and we're not
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: a massive population. Then you think globally, you extrapolate that
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: it might be a billion people who are sixty year older.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: You know, that's a big that's a big market.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: There are some companies that are servicing that market. I
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: was thinking about your mum and the iPhone, and then
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I kind of thought, well, my little brother has a
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: phone that doesn't have a screen on it. All it has,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: if you can imagine, you know, it's a bit smaller
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: than a standard mobile phone, a bit bigger than card
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: and all it has is you pre program. It's got
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: a big, chunky name next to it, so it's Patrick,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: it's Dad, it's all the various contacts. I think about
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: eight or ten on it, maybe only eight, and you
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: just button and it calls them. That's it. All you've
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: got is a call and a hang up. Doesn't even
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: have a keypad to dial numbers. You just have emergency
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: contacts or people you want to speak to, and he
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: just press the button, it calls them, and he presses
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: the hang up button most of the time to hang up.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: And how does he know who's ringing?
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: If someone rings, Oh, I guess that lights up next
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know, amen, because I'm just thinking what efforts,
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: you know, one of those fucking annoying people trying to
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: sell your shit. You don't want to be answering those
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: all the time.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I just realized that the contact details that I've got
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: in my phone for his phone is Jason's lego phone.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: That's hilarious.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. I'll have to try that
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: next time. I'm not sure what it does when you
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: ring in and how he knows where it's coming from.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I need to follow that up.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh wow, all right, let's do another one
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: or two if you've got anything on your list.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Well, this is an interesting one. The government's getting really proactive.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: When I say the government, this trading. Government's getting really
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: proactive with a first ever standalone Cybersecurity Act. So what
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: this means there's two cybersecurity bills that are currently being
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: reviewed by a parliamentary committee and what they're looking at
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: is a mandatory minimum cyber security standard for smart devices
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: because things like speakers, vacuums, doorbells, fridges, all that sort
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: of smart connectivity because they're there now. They want to
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: have an absolute minimum that that security means. Because there
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: was a brand of vacuum cleaners recently that they found
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: out that because they have cameras built into them, these
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: robo vACC You don't have a robovac, dear, no so,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: but there's been a.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Bit of stuff in the news about robo vax fucking
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: doing like attacking dogs.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: And dog yeah. No, well, in this instance, recording everything
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: so they can send to the cloud and they can
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: basically look through through the cameras. I mean for your
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: own personal security. This is scary to think that your
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: own devices could be spying on you. So your robot
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: vacuum cleaner has a camera in it, and if you
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: think that it's vacuuming around the house and you've got kids,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: and you've got older people, and it could be seeing
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: and watching and then recording that information. There was one brand,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: and I can't think of it at the moment. It's
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: not one of the big popular ones, but certainly was
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: a reasonably popular one. They didn't have protections in place,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: so that data was being captured, including camera footage and
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: audio being recorded. So you've got this digital spy that's
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: running around your house. So I think it's a good
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: step in the right direction with this kind of cyber
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: security legislation that hopefully will go to Parliament. It's a
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: security bill they're talking about putting it through, and then
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: it puts the onus back on the companies to make
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: sure that the devices that we use, the smart things.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: You know, we call it the Internet of things. So
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: a device that's Internet enable and can be right in
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: our digital ecosystem, it's referred to as the Internet of things.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: And I think that more companies need to be put
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: under pressure to make sure these devices are secure. That's
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: a real problem. If you've ever installed a router in
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: your home, you know, when you connect the internet, generally
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: the standard username and password is either admin admin or
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: admin password or admin one two three four. You know
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's mind blowingly ridiculous that standard that comes out.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, you should be forced when you install a
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: router or a modem, it should be found to create
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: a password and a username that's unique to you, not
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: the standard because it means that all these off the
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: shelf devices could be potentially hacked into.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Hey, David Gillespie and I did an episode on October eleven,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: what's that six days ago? Episode sixteen seventy one called
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: is your car spying on you? And he wrote wanted
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: or not aware of it or not?
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: If you have a relatively late model car, there's a
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: very high chance that much of what you're doing when
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: you're behind the wheel is being recorded. Henry Ford would
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: be horrified his model T once a symbol of freedom,
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: has morphed into a rolling surveillance device tracking our every
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: move and eavesdropping on our conversations. Some cars Tesla for example,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: even turning into rolling CCTV cameras capturing every move Grimace
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: and nose Pick, So there are Choice Magazine did like
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: an expose on that. They did and then Gillespo wrote
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: about it. But yeah, that's that.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: That's fucking terrifying, Like they're not just audio recording but
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: video recording you in your car and then keeping that.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: And I said to him, what about But surely they
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: need approval or they need and it's like, yeah, well
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: when you buy whatever or you of course you just
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: go accept and he said, like trying to what did
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: he say? He said, trying to read and understand what
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: you're agreeing to is like trying to read a ten
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: thousand word document in Klingon.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: You know, that's right. I know that in Europe, the
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: EU is trying to force companies to make their terms
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: of service and agreements to be a lot clearer, to
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: spell them out, to put more kind of you know,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: to make the more succinct as to what they're storing
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: and what they're keeping from you. By the way, I
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: remember I found the article about that vacuum cleaner that
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: collects photos and audio to train AI. It's called the
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: d Bot dwbot robot vacuum and they're saying, and this
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: was an article on the ABC by the way, ABC Australia.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: So they've been found to suffer from critical cybersecurity flaws
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: and they're collecting photos, videos and voice recordings has taken
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: inside customers' houses and what they're using that data for
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: is to train the company's AI model. So they're taking it.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: This is a Chinese home robotics company and they sell
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: the debot, which is a lot of people illustrated him
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: may have one of these. I'm going to tell you
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: a story. A friend of mine just brought himself a
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Chinese car. It's called the Tank. Have you heard of
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: the Tank?
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's made by GWM Havelet's there's a three hundred
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: and a five hundred, so he probably bought the three hundred.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Coincidence two one of my friends bought the three hundred.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: One bought the five hundred. But I had to laugh.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I got into his car the other day. He's only
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: had it for about two weeks and there's a camera
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: that faces you to crack whether you fall asleep or
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's about effectively that's what it's supposed to do.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: He's put a sticker over it because he does looking
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: at him. I don't know if I could be in
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: a car that's looking back at me constantly. That's his frame.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Mine's got the same thing.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Oh really yeah yeah.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: If you blink for too long, it tells you to
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: pull over and have a rest. Yeah wow, I mean,
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: but just quickly.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Jumping back to the vaxspying vacuum, think about the fact
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that what a genius way to get a mobile microphone
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: and camera into your house where imagine if you know,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: like it looked like a microphone and camera. You wouldn't
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: let it anywhere near your fucking property. But because oh
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: it's a vacuum, it's a vacuum that happens to have
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: a camera and a microphone. And you go into room
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, there it is listening and filming,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: you know, And now I'm in the shower. I'm not
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: sure why it's in the bathroom, you know. I'm like,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: that is potentially fucking.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Terrifying. Well, not potentially, it is terrifying.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Well, they also do a two D and sometimes even
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: a three D map of your house. And the concern
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: is this company may legitimately be collecting the data to
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: try to map their vacuum cleaners better, but what they
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: can't guarantee is that they're not going to be hacked.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Could you think about a crime syndicate hacking your vacuum
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: cleaner moving around knowing where you are, when you are,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: when you're off to work, and where all the valuables
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: are in the house.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you say this, and this is not
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: a very good way. You and I have been quite
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: you know, unprofessional today. But I'm just having a look
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: at vacuum vacuum threatening I read this thing person, excuse me, No,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: I can't find it. But this this one of those
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: vacuums was basically somebody, I don't know what the word
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: is hijacked it.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: You know the word.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know the word, but took and they have
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: speakers in them, and somebody was abusing. Somebody had had
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: hacked it and was abusing the homeowner was abusing that.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: So obviously not the company was doing, but somebody had had.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: That particular let's call it what it is, robot, and yeah,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: they they were just abusing this person who was in
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: the home.
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: It is a worrying thing that we allow technology into
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: our homes. And we talked in an episode not long
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: ago about how some apps owned by Facebook Meta and
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: they were tracking people in conversations. So once you have
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: the Facebook app on your phone, potentially they could be
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: listening into your conversation so they can serve up ads.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: So there was an advertising agency that ran ads for
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: the likes of Meta, and what they were doing was
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: they were tracking conversations for keywords and then serving up ads.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: They've been caught out, but they were serving up ads
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: related to the conversation. So we're talking about robot vacuum cleaner.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Potentially you could jump back on your phone and suddenly
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: an ad for a robot vacuum cleaner would appear.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yep.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: I have that happen all the time, where I'll be
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: talking about something, my phone's not even near me, and
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: then I start getting ads.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: Hey, listen to this.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: South Korean woman's hair eaten by robot vacuum cleaner as
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: she slept.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, there's a photo.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: When a South Korean woman invested in a robot vacuum cleaner,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: the idea was to leave her trustworthy gadget to do
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: its work while she took a break from household chores. Instead,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the fifty two year old resident of chang Wan City
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: ended up being a victim of what many believe is
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: a peek into a dystopian future in which supposedly benign
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: robots against their human masters. The woman, whose name is
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: been with was taking a nap on the floor at
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: home when the vacuum cleaner locked onto her hair and
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: sucked it up, apparently mistaking it for dust. The agony
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: of having her hair entangled in the boughs of the
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: contraption raised her from a slumber, and then there's a
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: photo of what looks like ambos.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, firefighters, so you found it trying to rescue the woman. Yeah,
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: that's going to hurt.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Can I just say, I'm going to take the side
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: of the vacuum cleaner on this one.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Well, that's because you've got no fucking hair, so you're
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: not You're number anybody.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Can I just say if you have a robot vacuum
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: cleaner in your home and you lay down on the
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: ground with your hair spread out on the floor, which
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: is pretty gross as it happens, and the innocent robot
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: vacuum cleaner happens to be doing their job and they
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: find some dirt on the ground that happens to be
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: someone's hair, it will vacuum it up. It didn't know
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: it was attached to a human. Well, that's an that
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: therein lies the problem. When you first told that story,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I envisaged the vacuum cleaner jumping onto the bed and
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: attacking her because that's what you made it sound like.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: And then the actual story was that she was naively
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: laying on the floor while the vacuum cleaner was innocently
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: doing its job.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: It doesn't it has to work times have I told
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: you off air, don't let the facts get in the
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: way of a fucking good story. So you, you and
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: your bloody reality check can fuck off, mate. How can
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: people connect with you and find you and follow you?
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Where are you at?
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Well? They can go to websites now, dot com, dot
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: au and as it suggests, we actually build websites when
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not on podcast talking crap, but we do all
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: sorts of marketing and stuff like that. So go to
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: if you want to ask questions, if you want us
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: to talk about something in particular, So just go to
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: websites now, dot com today you They can then jump
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: online and send us sends a note, email me, contact
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: me and I'll happily.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you if you do want to get
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: a web and this is not a paid endorsement, but
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: if you do want to get a website built, for
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: God's sake, go to Patrick.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: Because one, there's a whole.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Lot of fucking people who overcharge and under deliver, Like really,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: I've experienced it, He's not one. And there's a lot
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: of people who try and keep you on the hook
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: forever with a range of things you don't need, so
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: save yourself a bit of time and energy and just
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: start with someone who's good at it.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks, mate, that's really nice of you to say.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Looking at what I love about what we do with
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: our clients is we have such a diversity, and I
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: love getting to know people and their businesses. I never
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: knew that I would know anything about delivering a baby,
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: but I do. Wow, that's because one of our clients
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: does the most amazing obstetrics and gynological training models in
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: the world. And they may just rand the corner from you,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: actually just down the road from your house.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Well, the babies or.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: The everything, well, I guess they're happening all around you.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: It makes everybody everywhere appreciate you, mate, Thank you.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Jeez. I