Latest / ShameOver - The Drink Less Podcast / Why You Reach for a Drink: Alcohol, Discomfort & Your Nervous System with Amy Bonaduce-Gardner Pt 1
Transcript
- Erica+ShameOver: All right, today I am talking with Amy, a nervous system coach and the founder of Prism Movement Studio. She's been teaching for 30 years, everyone from preschoolers to Olympic athletes. And if you have ever felt like you don't really have a drinking problem, this one's definitely for you. We get into how many of us we get into how many of us use alcohol to regulate, often without realizing it. Let's get started. Hello, welcome back to Shame Over the Drink Less Podcast. I'm your host, Eric Mallory, and I am very excited about this conversation today because it's something that will definitely hit home with me and I know so many other people are dealing with as well. So we're just gonna jump in. Hi Amy, thank you for being here. Amy: Hello. Thanks for having me. Erica+ShameOver: Yeah, tell us about yourself. Amy: So I'm different things to different people actually. And so to some people, I'm a holistic biomechanics practitioner. And usually the people that are coming to me for those sorts of things have a body-based issue. So maybe their movement, pain difficulties. they might have surgeon says we'd let's do surgery, but they're like, nah, not yet. so that's the biomechanics part of it. Some of that also gets into chronic illness, depends on what the chronic illness is. And then the other side of the coin is a nervous system coach. And so with those folks that I'm looking at more at burnout, chronic fatigue, just have a stressful life, don't know how to quite deal with it, things of that nature. So mental health falls into that category sometimes. Sometimes it slips onto the other side, but interestingly the work is the same no matter which box you check, and most of my clients check all three. Erica+ShameOver: I was gonna say I was definitely all of the above, Amy: Yeah. Yes. Erica+ShameOver: someone who's had chronic back pain basically for over a decade now. that I tried everything under the sun for, and just over the past few years have learned about nervous system regulation and lack thereof for me, what the ability I had to actually regulate one thing that I'm very much aware of now and what I believe is a lot of the people I work with. don't really have a drinking problem. They're drinking to regulate themselves and they just have no clue, not only that they're dysregulated, but that every time they drink to regulate, they're not only not doing that, but making it harder to regulate naturally in the future. So let's dive right into nervous system regulation. very Amy: Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: simple, easy way, what does this mean to you? Amy: So to me, that means that a person's using alcohol to le alleviate some sort of discomfort. And so, Erica+ShameOver: Mm, yes. Amy: and and sometimes it's it's we know what the discomfort is, and sometimes it's a it's a tangible feeling in our body, and sometimes it's not even that. it's just I've I've always done this after work because after work I need to, calm down or rest or whatever that is, or I feel like I need to reward myself. And that's so then it becomes a habit and we are creatures of habit. our brains are based on comparison, so we use past to predict future and we usually just do things without even thinking about it. But it usually is or stemmed from trying to alleviate some sort of discomfort. So and sometimes we even Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: have a discomfort and we don't even know about it, but some part of Erica+ShameOver: Exactly. Amy: our brain knows about it. So Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Amy: Our blinking reflex for our eyes is a great example of of that. we blink to alleviate the discomfort of a dry eye. And Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: most of us don't have a conscious experience of that unless we don't have a blinking reflex. And then then we absolutely know about it. But that's a perfect Erica+ShameOver: Interesting. Amy: example. We all blink. Well, not well, most of us blink, right? To moisten the eye our eyeball to alleviate the Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Amy: discomfort of the dryness. And so that is really no different than how a lot of people use alcohol. Erica+ShameOver: That I've never had that correlation with the blinking of the eye. That is fascinating. and to your your point, the discomfort can look like so many different things. it can also be the physical pain, that a lot of the women I work with, we're just getting a little bit older. it our bodies don't feel like they did, a decade or two ago. So, Amy: Mm-hmm. Erica+ShameOver: there there's that physical discomfort that can maybe be a little bit more obvious, but I think some of the emotional discomfort is what a lot of us aren't aware of. yeah, we might think well, it was a stressful day. So I guess maybe that's discomfort, but I'm bored, I'm lonely, I have a happy hour and the social anxiety, these are all discomforts that we're just not aware of. And it doesn't even have to be really a negative discomfort. It's just out of the norm or out of your safety zone type thing. Amy: Right. Well, and sometimes that physical discomfort is like my shoulder. But sometimes the the stress at the end of the day is this underlying buzz that you can Erica+ShameOver: And Amy: feel, but you might sound a little weird if you said it to somebody, but it's this tangible little vibration or buzz that's just right underneath the the surface. And that's really chronic or common for somebody with chronic stress. Right. And so then we drink Erica+ShameOver: Interesting. Amy: alcohol and alcohol being a depressant literally can shut that down. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Well and ex exactly Amy: Right? Erica+ShameOver: what I tell my clients all the time, the reason why we go back to alcohol is it is effective, it is efficient, and it is consistent. And that is what our brains look for all the time. Especially even though we know it's not quote unquote in reality keeping us safe, that is what we've taught our brain that it's doing. Amy: Yeah, it's familiar, predictable. Mm-hmm. Brain's like that. Nervous systems like that. Mm-hmm. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Exactly. Yes, very much so. So we know that we're drinking for essentially I say neg negative emotions or we're drinking out of emotion most of the time. So what does this mean? Amy: Well, usually I try to be more s if somebody's talking to me about this sort of behavior or one that's similar, but maybe it's not alcohol is their device. but being really specific about what's motivating the behavior. So is it just a habit? I just have always done this. I've just I don't know why, I just always done it. Or I feel like I need a reward. And it's like, well, at that point it's like if you need a reward, does it have to be this? Can it be this instead? And some people are like, yeah, I just never thought of that. Right. And Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Amy: so, but if it's something that's if I have what I refer to as a hyperactive sympathetic nervous system response, which just means that I'm fight or flight more often than not. And usually at that point I'm at my fight or flight response is a lot higher than what is necessary. Well, it's all unnecessary, but it's a lot higher than maybe the average person's response. But if I have that hyperactivity, then that's what I that is what I use to regulate my nervous system. Right. So I might not have other tools to regulate. But then it's also, why do I need to regulate in the first place? Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Amy: And so if I so what is it about that beh what's motivating the behavior? And thus I'm using alcohol to regulate myself to be something different, right? Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: And interesting because the way alcohol works, a lot of times the alcohol actually puts us into a deeper state of fight or flight, but one that feels calm, but is not physiologically calm. Right. And so then that's what kind of keeps us going. Cause at that point, if Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Amy: I am, if my nervous system is tanked, there's something that's referred to as the valve system. And the valve system is just it's a series of diaphragms that run through the body, your actual breathing diaphragm is one of them. And they have a special way which they move and coordinate that's different depending on whether I'm in a parasympathetic state, more early stages of a fight or flight response, or more latter stages of fight or flight. And if I'm in those latter stages of fight or flight, alcohol is actually what keeps me going. Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Amy: Right? Alcohol is what's keeping me from the brink of a of a complete stage seven shock rigor shutdown. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. God, that's so crazy. But Amy: And so yeah. Erica+ShameOver: it makes so much sense. So how do you know if you are, I believe you call it called it hyperactive nervous system, was is that correct? Yeah, how do you know Amy: Mm-hmm. That is. Erica+ShameOver: if you're you're there, if you're approaching it, if you're you've been in it for a decade or for me, thirty plus years and didn't even know it until more recently. Amy: Yeah. Well, some people know. Some people just know. And those are the ones that are really more in the chronic stress area. And so a lot of my clients that are, high level professionals or they're entrepreneurs or something of that nature, those people kind of just know and they probably Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Amy: also know it's their job. And they may or may not use the term burnout, but they just know that they they're really stressed or that they have a really stressful job and thus their body is this way. somebody that has a shoulder thing might not necessarily associate that with a hyper fight or flight response, but it's the same thing. It's just showing up louder in that place than it is in the other person's experience. So all those things are expressions of a heightened fight or flight nervous system. I just might not connect those dots. And that generally is one of the things that I have to do with a lot of my clients is. to connect those dots for them so they can start to understand, this is just my nervous system doing what it's been doing. And my we may or may know why it started what triggered that in the first place, whether it was like a traumatic event or I was in a car accident or, I was born this way. And there's definitely situations of born this way. But all those things are expressions of of a heightened fight or flight nervous system response. And a lot of people are in those those responses, but they feel calm. They look calm. So they assume that they're okay. But I imagine if you dig dig a little bit deeper, take that mask away, that there's something that's not quite right. Right. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: Or there might be some some other expressions might come across as people pleasing, or I'm a perfectionist, or I just have these this underlying belief that I'm not good enough or I'm not, I'm not a good person, right? And so those sorts of things are also expressions of a fight or flight. nervous system Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: that may or may not coordinate or correlate with my alcohol consumption. Erica+ShameOver: Yes, exactly. And mean I every thing Amy: No. Erica+ShameOver: that you said, I had someone, some was myself, but other clients. So I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. so with all of this, and this is why to me nervous system work is so imperative because I feel like it it truly is healing for so much of what people are going through. I love talk therapy, huge fan of it, but if you don't know that you're dysregulated or how to regulate yourself your therapy can only do so much and go so far. Right? So Amy: Sure, and and a lot of times therapy just deals with the cognitive side of it, doesn't necessarily deal with the body side of it, or it doesn't necessarily Erica+ShameOver: Exactly. Amy: deal with the unconscious side of it. Erica+ShameOver: Exactly. And that was me to a T. I had done all the talk stuff. I got it all, but I still was living in the orange in a sense without necessarily realizing it. I more recently have been wondering if I basically essentially detached from my body years ago without necessarily realizing it. So I've been doing somatics to try to get back into my body and everything along those lines. So for for someone who might be like out of touch with their body, not know how to like how they're feeling, and I'm not talking emotions. yes, we we can label our emotions, but this is more like you have your intuition shows up for all of us in different places. For for some it's in our stomach. For some it's like here, different things. You don't know that if you're not in touch with your body. So how would someone even start getting in touch with their body to see if Wow, is my nervous system super dysregulated and and I had no idea. Amy: Sure, sure. Well, one thing I would ask is the things that you do to regulate, what do those look like? is that a breathing technique? Erica+ShameOver: For me, it all started with breathing, yes. Amy: Okay. Okay. And do you is that something that you have to do regularly to maintain some sort of nervous system regulation, or is that something that you did for a while and now you don't need it anymore? Erica+ShameOver: Hundred percent. I I still to this day catch myself holding my breath all the time and don't realize it. Yep. Amy: Yeah, sure. And so that's where I don't teach techniques to manage symptoms. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Amy: I teach techniques that change the underlying signal. Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Amy: Right. And so in so instead of I and so I don't teach actually nervous system regulation. I teach people nervous system adaptation. And so therefore, Erica+ShameOver: Ooh, okay. Tell me more. Amy: my nervous system could can adapt to whatever a situation brings me. And so whether it's an environment that I'm in, whether it's people that I'm around or an activity that I'm engaging in, that my nervous system can appropriately adapt to whatever that is. And for most of us, rarely is that a threat to my survival. Right. And so Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Exactly, yeah. Amy: instead of having to engage some sort of technique that's going to manage my symptoms when I go into these in this environment, my nervous system can simply understand the reality of the environment and then respond right as opposed to react respond appropriately to that. Erica+ShameOver: So how does that even look to get started? 'Cause obviously I'm sure that that is a it is an experience Amy: Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: and probably training along the way, not a not a short term fix by any means. Yes. Amy: No, it's not a short term. Yeah. And so it's definitely not something that is just like I'm gonna teach you one thing and you're good to go for the rest of the life. But neuroplasticity takes a long time. So Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: it's just like when you're trying to create a habit or undo a habit, it takes a long time, right? It's more than just that, 21 day adage. It takes a lot longer than that, right? And so, and in fact a lot of generally it's nine months is what it's considered to be for a nervous system to have some sort of shift in its dominant state. And which may Erica+ShameOver: well. Amy: or may not be where you ultimately want to be, but it's usually about nine months that that is required to really make that shift. But what I teach is something that's called body mapping. And body mapping is a way of starting to increase information from my external environment, so the room around me, but also my internal environment, which is usually the head down, although there's definitely moments where we're mapping in this area too. And by engaging in this body mapping process, my brain starts to res receive a larger amount of sensory data. And so sensory data might be something really basic in terms of what are the electromagnetic frequencies in my environment? What's the the humidity like? What's the air pressure like? The barometric pressure. It might be something inside me about what's re usually referred to as proprioception. So my upper leg and my lower leg. Excuse me, how do those two bones, how are they interacting? And furthermore, are they acting in organizing, moving, etc., in a way that's consistent with a fight or flight nervous system, or are they moving and organizing in a way that's consistent with a parasympathetic nervous system? And so when I start to increase that information to my brain, my brain can better answer the question, am I safe? Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Amy: And then if the answer is yes, then I can engage in this whatever this moment is in a parasympathetic manner. If the answer Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Amy: is no. Then even if it actually is safe, I'm going to respond as if my safety is at threat, right? And so that's basically my brain doesn't, if I'm actually in a safe situation, my brain doesn't have enough information and is actually saying, I don't know. So fight or flight is the better safe than sorry option. Right. Or in that, let's say that we actually are in a moment where my survival is at threat, right? Maybe I'm down a dark alley and doing who knows what, but right. And I actually need to be fight or flight. And then if that's the case, I hope that I am fight or flight. I hope that you are fight or flight. And furthermore, I hope that your fight or flight nervous system chooses the correct response. And so playing down, play laying down and playing dead might be actual better response than turning and running. Right. And so Erica+ShameOver: Sure. Yeah. Amy: the more information I have about my environment, not only can I choose sympathetic or parasympathetic, but then I can further choose. more details about what would be best in regards to my response to this moment. So that's the body wap body mapping is just a way of starting to increase that data so my brain can make a better decision about this. And with regard Erica+ShameOver: And that's all based internally and externally. Okay. Amy: Yeah. And so then with regards to to drinking, for example, tallying up how many drinks I had to have a day, I think is a great tool because a lot of people just don't have no clue, right? And so that's a that's one way of collecting data that's just really obvious. Then the second thing that I generally tell pe p my clients is that when you go to pick up a drink, or whether it's to go to the store or go to the bar or just down to your kitchen, before you actually Take the drink before you actually, put it into your mouth, pause. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Amy: And then ask yourself, why am I taking right? What Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: is it? what's the motivation behind this? and then two, what would happen if you did body mapping for two minutes? Erica+ShameOver: Mm. Amy: And then at the end of the two minutes, you still might decide to have your drink. And that's fine, no judgment from me, but you might actually decide that. Maybe you just don't even want to drink, or maybe you want to drink something else, or maybe you're actually hungry, or maybe you want to go for a walk or something. But you've you can use body mapping as a tool to insert a pause. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Amy: And that's sometimes the hardest part is remembering to insert the pause, but there's some tricks there too. But by inserting the pause and by inserting this particular one, then it allows my brain, my unconscious brain to start to shift the way that I'm perceiving this moment. And so then it's not just about my conscious brain deciding if I want to do this or not. It's not about I've set a rule for myself about how many drinks I'm gonna have, but it might be just my unconscious brain shifts in such a way that having this drink just is no longer consistent with my moment. Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. The pause is truly the most powerful thing in all of this when it comes to drinking, I've definitely seen, and what you do during that pause. I I know a lot of times people will just literally sit on their hands, white knuckling it, and I'm like, that's not actually taking a pause. that sure, you're taking a moment, but you're not like it's not intentional. Amy: And furthermore, I would s suggest that they might be engaging into a freeze response, which is just another form of fight or flight. Erica+ShameOver: Yes, which is why it's so difficult. Amy: Yes. Mm-hmm. And they're and then Erica+ShameOver: Brilliant. I love that. Amy: not only that, they're the freeze response is supposed to be a function of my unconscious brain. And so now my conscious brain is basically trying to tell my unconscious brain how it's supposed to behave when really they just need to stay in their own lanes. Erica+ShameOver: I've never thought of it that way. That is amazing, yeah. Wow. If this conversation hit home, please take my free drinker type quiz at shameover.me slash quiz. It'll show you why you you reach for a drink and what to do instead. As always, thank you for being a listener of the Shameover Podcast. Like, subscribe, follow. All of that helps so that you don't miss any episodes and helps me continue doing this amazing work. So I'll see you for part two. And also don't forget, if you are at all interested in exploring this more. On November 4th, I have a workshop that I'm doing. I'll link it in the show notes, but it is a great one hour to really dive into all of this. So I hope to see you there.