Latest / 85 Percent: A Wanderful Podcast / S3 E5: Who's Behind the Camera with Kai Lawson of Black Girls Shoot Too
Transcript
- Beth Santos: Hi everyone, Beth here, founder and CEO of Wanderful and host of the 85 Percent podcast, reporting to you live from my kitchen. But I wanted to make sure that we dropped the next episode so that you could hear it. We are interviewing all of the winners of our 2026 Bessie Awards. And our next episode talks to Kai Lawson, who's the founder of Black Girls Shoot Too. She's the Social Impact Award winner at the Bessies and has been basically creating this incredible community currently out of LA and soon going all across the nation supporting black women and their photography careers. They host gallery viewings, they have meetups, they share opportunities and help make it easier For black women to succeed in the photography space, especially in a place where they are underpaid, under resourced, and not given so much of the main stage. I loved talking with Kai. She's been a longtime Wanderful member. So it's been really neat seeing her evolve and grow and see this business come into fruition. And I think you're gonna enjoy the conversation too. So come check it out and we'll see you at the end. hey everyone. We are here with another episode of 85 Percent. I am so thrilled for this conversation, because this is someone who's been part of the Wanderful community for a long time and a member of our LA hub and a super cool person to know. And also very accomplished. Kai Lawson is a photographer, a traveler, and an advocate who founded Black Girls Shoot 2, a creative community for black women and women of color photographers in LA. Since launching in March of last year, it's grown into monthly photo walks, mentorship, a sold-out group photo tour to Panama, and their first ever gallery show. And this year, she won our Social Impact Award at the Bessies. Kai, welcome. It's so great to have you with us. Kai Bouhmad: Hello. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. This is gonna be so fun. I'm excited for this conversation. Beth Santos: I want to talk about Black Girl Shoot Too But first, I want to talk about the Bessies because was that like not such a fun night? Kai Bouhmad: That was the best night ever. Like and my parents watching it from afar was like so exciting for them Beth Santos: they were Kai Bouhmad: to watch it. Like everybody in my family was like watching it. It was so great. Yeah. Beth Santos: so for those of you who who don't know, because this is actually kind of a secret. So one of the things that we do before the Bessies is we have a Bessie Awards finalist dinner. And it's one of my most favorite traditions in the Wanderful community is we bring all of the Bessie Award finalists together and have this really beautiful dinner. And this year, The dinner was it was sponsored by West Village and it was at a restaurant called St. John's in Chattanooga and it was stunning, beautiful, like you know, private dining. And and it was such a special event because you bring all of the finalists together to all meet each other and share their stories, and it becomes this like very non-competitive, supportive space. And my hope is that it also kind of eases people's nerves a little bit when we're getting ready for the Bessies, but How did like how did that evening roll out for you? Did you like think you were gonna win? Did you like have butterflies in your stomach? Like what was going what was going through your mind? Kai Bouhmad: thought that I would win, but then I said, you know, it it is competitive, but I just felt like in the back of my mind that like, you know, like I was the spirit of my grandmother, Bessie, obviously. My grandmother's name is Bessie. And I just felt like that. she was there and that like I just f kind of deep down felt that I would win. I I I don't know, I can't explain it. It was just kind of just like Beth Santos: I love it. You just knew. Kai Bouhmad: the spirit of my grandmother or something was like telling me like you're gonna win. I just felt it. Beth Santos: you won the Social Impact Award for your organization Black Girl Shoot Two. Let's talk through this process. Like, how did this before this even started, you were a creator yourself, you've been in the travel Kai Bouhmad: Yeah. Beth Santos: community. Like, where tell us the origin story here. How did this all begin? Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, I was just like, you know, I was obviously I'm in Wanderful. I love to travel. I was a solo traveler for a long time. And one day I was just at home and I was just sitting there and and you know, I love photography. I've always like had my camera. My dad was a photographer and when I was little, and I find in a lot of women that their dads are photographers. It's and that's how they got into photography. That's what I hear from a lot of the girls in the group. And so my dad always had his camera, He would take me in the car. He was always taking photos, taking photos of my mom, our family, like everywhere he went, just like and he always had his camera. And so I got into photography. I've always been obsessed with cameras and and photography and took photography classes in high school, in college. I was just obsessed with photography. there's a lot of organizations out there that have bigger photography groups and stuff like that, but they weren't having photo walks as often as I wanted, and I always I would always miss them and I'll always say like, you know, they only have like one in LA or something like that and I said, you know, one day I'm just gonna like post on Event brite women of color photographers, let's go on a photo walk and I said, Let me just see who shows up just for the heck of it, Beth Santos: point, yeah. So what year was this? Kai Bouhmad: This is in March of 2025 Beth Santos: and had you like hosted events before through maybe like your creator world or like had that been something that you'd done before, or what made Kai Bouhmad: No. Beth Santos: you kind of be like, you know what, I'm just gonna like throw this on Eventbrite and see what happens? Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, I never hosted anything like this before. And it was just I felt inside like I was always walking around with my camera by myself and I'm just like, you know, I'm gonna just post something because I'm like, there's gotta be some other girly girls out here with the camera, you know, so I've never posted had any event or anything. So I just put it on Eventbrite, you know, like a week went by, nothing happened, all of a sudden one sign up, another sign up, and another one, and then I was like, my god, I have to go to my event now 'cause at first I was like, I don't even have to go Beth Santos: Okay. Kai Bouhmad: like nope it's I I don't think anybody's coming and then I was like my god I gotta go down there I gotta drive over there yes and it was Beth Santos: People are coming. Kai Bouhmad: like 40 people and I'm just like my god on the Beth Santos: my god! Kai Bouhmad: on the first one at the meet at this cafe and then and I was kind of worried because I was like you know the area you know it's it's a short little route that we were gonna take to walk and I was like you know what if it's boring or what if people think you know there's nothing to do here but on the day that we got there all of a sudden there's a a market there. And then there's like a drum circle happening and like all this stuff was started happening. And I was like, there now they Beth Santos: my god. Kai Bouhmad: have they have something to shoot, you know, because I was w afraid that like, what if there's not enough like stuff to to photograph? And then all this stuff just started happening at the event. Like I was I was just like, this is crazy. Yeah, right? I'm like, Yeah, I d yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: And the whole time you're like, I totally planned this. I like knew that this was gonna happen. Yeah, here everyone is the market that I organized for you. Yeah. Kai Bouhmad: Exactly. That's what I Beth Santos: Love it. Kai Bouhmad: that's what I was thinking. And so they all showed up on the first one and then I was just super excited. I just kept it going, ever since. So the first event, March of twenty twenty five, and I said, Wow I mean th th the girls are really out there and they really wanna take photos, so yeah. Beth Santos: I love that. I mean, I think that is such Kai Bouhmad: Thank you. Beth Santos: a just an organic way to start this. And tell me about, you know, how this has evolved since then. I mean, you're doing more photo walks. Now you're doing trips, you have workshops. Like what is the how how has this progressed? Kai Bouhmad: it progressed like so fast because like March was the first event and then April we had a workshop and then I had to find a studio and I found a photography studio where we could have a workshop. So every month for I've been going strong like every month there's an either a photo walk or there's a workshop. Like I ha I didn't s Beth Santos: Wow. Kai Bouhmad: I haven't stopped. Like there's one event like a month and sometimes two events a month. And then we had at the end of the year, last year in December, I was like, Well, let's just throw an end-of-the-year party, and then it turned into an exhibit, like the first exhibit. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, now I'm a curator, and I don't know what I'm doing. I'm out here curating photo exhibits, and we had a second exhibit after that. So, but the first exhibit, Beth Santos: Wow. Kai Bouhmad: I just was like, you know, we're just gonna hang our stuff up on the And then I'm Now I gotta get the artist bios and I gotta organize all this. And it just I turned into like a full-on curator. And luckily at LA Artcore, where we had the first exhibit, I had so much support there, so much help. And I made basically a donation to LA Artcore, and they gave me the space so we could have that first exhibit. And it was exciting because the photographers, many of them, that this was their first exhibit ever. And it was because of the group that I was able to, you know, give them their first exhibit. So they were really excited about that. Beth Santos: Wow, that's amazing. Well, I Kai Bouhmad: Yeah. Beth Santos: I mean, I think one thing I really love about this is that first of all, like you're you're creating community around a need that you had for yourself of just I want to get together with other Black women. Kai Bouhmad: Together, I'm bored, like yeah. Beth Santos: Yeah, and come and like have this collaborative and I think from like an event planning perspective, you've you've nailed it because everyone in event in an event is looking for like a thing to do. That's easy and casual, Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, that's Beth Santos: but keeping them busy. So you're like, okay, we're gonna go for a walk, we're gonna go take pictures. But I think like, I don't wanna oversimplify what's happening here either. Because I think, you know, and I'm just I was literally like throwing in some research while you were talking. And what's coming up to me is that 60% of the general photography workforce, like 60% of photographers are women, six to eight percent of photographers are Black. So if you take If you take that that number, six to eight percent of photographers are Black, let's assume that sixty percent of them are women, that's four percent of photographers are Black women. Like it's like a very small number. And I I imagine that you have felt Kai Bouhmad: It's that. Beth Santos: that or noticed that in your life. Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, yeah, I I've noticed that and a lot of the girls tell me they noticed that as well, that like and it's hard to get jobs where they're paid, you know, what they deserve being a black woman photographer. So I I get that I understand that a lot. And that's really amazing statistics. I didn't know that you just told me that just now, but yeah. Look it up, yeah. So that was Yeah. So now I'm breaking it down. Yes. Beth Santos: Well, there you go. That's why we're here, right? Breaking down barriers one step at a time. Well, and I think you know, the one of the things that that I know we talk about at Wanderful and in the travel industry is just like who is pictured. And so when we're talking about travel industry marketing, you know, who is the protagonist of that photo? You know, and and oftentimes it fits into a pretty pretty narrow, you know, definition of a person. It's like a twenty to thirty year old white woman or man, you know, in like, you Kai Bouhmad: Yeah. Beth Santos: know, come like really, really good shape and on a mountain somewhere. And that's like most of the photography that comes out. And so Kai Bouhmad: So yeah, right. Yeah. Beth Santos: like a couple, so I think there's like a couple things to that. Number one, you know, this question of who is being represented in the visuals and how that is affecting the way we interpret and feel free to travel. I think that's the first thing. But the second thing is who is taking that photo makes a big difference in that. what you're doing is you're giving black women the space to curate their perspective and to push that into the mainstream in a lot of ways. and that's just very powerful. Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, because I feel sometimes when these photographers or if it's a white male photographer or whatever, they really don't understand you know, maybe th the the lighting or How do they work with different skin tones and sometimes, you know, that can be a problem or a factor when we we people are doing photo shoots or whatever. They're not adept to our skin tones, not taking the photo right or their or the and the lighting. So that plays into it too. And also my friend, she's a woman of color photographer, a a Latina and she is from the Dominican Republic. And she was saying that like, you know, she's a professional photographer. She has to fight so hard sometimes to like she works for the UN and she's doing like photo shoots for the UN events and the other male photographers there are like literally like pushing her, you know, away like trying to get in and get in and get more shot. She's like, I'm here, like I'm hired, you know, you know, officially, I'm an official Beth Santos: wow. Kai Bouhmad: photographer. And they're just like bogarding their way in and she's just trying to like, you know, sh you know, they're still dominating this field. And so that's why I think it's important for us to come through and pop up as a you know, as women of color photographers, Black women photographers to just come through and push harder and and you know, get what we deserve and land those jobs, those professional jobs. And that's what I want to do at BGST. Also try to get more job opportunities for women of color photographers, you know, here and there. Because I have a few clients that I'm working with now to that are looking for event photographers and just trying to get them hired more so they can just feel free to be in their space and, you know, and not be just getting like pushed out of the way with by other phot Beth Santos: Yeah. Kai Bouhmad: male male photographers. So Beth Santos: I mean, how exciting that you're I mean, you're a year in, so you're established, but also Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, yeah. Beth Santos: you still have all this opportunity to grow and to evolve too, and like thinking about all the different directions that this could take. And yeah, you could be Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, that's what I Beth Santos: a whole, you know, agency. You could be sending we could getting people gigs and opportunities and sending, you Kai Bouhmad: Yeah. Beth Santos: know, and like really helping to kind of disrupt like the event space. And so I I think though, we all should recognize that like There is a really big difference between being like, I'm really looking for community and I'm gonna like host one event to Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, that's Beth Santos: to like I'm going to build this entire brand with a very cute logo, by the way, and also like have a vent Kai Bouhmad: thank you. shout out to D Katrona, our our graphic designer. When she came through with that, I was like, she nailed it. I Beth Santos: Yeah. Kai Bouhmad: I I it's I was so excited for that logo. Beth Santos: I think I think as we see more women in the front of the lens, you know, like more women on camera, more women as creators, more women like, you know, on YouTube or whatever, we also like they want to hire women too. I want to hire women when I'm hiring So Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, right. Beth Santos: so where do you find them? You know, and like how do we make sure that that sort of space is like vertically integrated? So I think you're solving a lot of problems, which is which is really cool. And you're doing it in like such a fun way. Kai Bouhmad: a lot of these girls are you know, th sometimes they feel that like, you know, their you know, their maybe their photos are not good enough or or they, you know, I just really wanna bring the ones like kinda like the underdog photographers up to the light because a lot of their work is good and they I don't want them to feel that like, you know, it doesn't look a certain way or it has to be edited a certain way. but through these workshops and these mentorships that I have, like the the lecturers and the photographers that teach the classes, they're really giving good feedback to people for their photos and they're just they just walk away like so happy with that. Beth Santos: What is fueling you forward with this? You know, like just like pure willpower and coffee. Kai Bouhmad: Some days I wanna quit. Some days I just wanna quit. And I work my regular nine to five job and another little side yes. I work for the county of Los Angeles for 24 years Beth Santos: What is it? You have a nine to five job? Kai Bouhmad: and I work for the government. Beth Santos: that's even more amazing, I think, 'cause you're doing this at night. You're doing this like basically in your Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, I'm doing I'm do Beth Santos: off hours. Kai Bouhmad: yeah, off hours and you know, like some days, like I said, like some days I don't know how I do it. I have no team really. I mean, I kind of have like a little two people that help me sometimes, you know. But for the Panama trip, we're I guess we're gonna get into that later. But it's it's all Beth Santos: Talk about it now. Kai Bouhmad: okay. Well for the Panama, I do have like a tr activities coordinator that's gonna be like in charge of all the activities, and I have a travel advisor that's a part of wonderful too. One of my She's gonna be helping Beth Santos: Nice. Kai Bouhmad: us out. And then we have Jonathan, which is down in Panama. We're gonna have an international exhibit there in January on the trip too. So you can go on the trip and you can be in the in the exhibit as well. So that's what I'm working on. So I some days I just don't know how I'm doing all this. Like any spare moment that I have, I'm sending an email or I'm sending stuff out, you know, and trying to work with other brands, and it's a lot to do, but I love it and it just I don't know. It just keeps me going, it keeps the fuels my creativity. The girls are excited every time I have an event. So yeah, that's how I think I keep going. Beth Santos: So they're called BGST photo tours. You've got your first one going to Panama Kai Bouhmad: Yes, BGS yes. Beth Santos: The dates are January 21st to 26th, 2027. And you Kai Bouhmad: Yes. Beth Santos: are basically planning a trip that also has like creative opportunities for photographers. Kai Bouhmad: Yes, to be you can either be in the exhibit or you can just go, you know, on the tour with us and the twist of it is to have an exhibit It's gonna be at a cute cafe, so kind of like a intimate, cute space and I'll put out Call for submissions, and we have some local Panamanian artists be in it, and also some of the people from our group be in the exhibit as well. Maybe we'll have more international exhibits and maybe we'll go to Geneva and and do one, you know, you never know. so we're excited about that. And then the trip there also we're gonna have a photographer, a local photographer that lives there. Her name is Rafaela. She's from Brazil, but She lives in Panama and she takes people on a photo tour. So she's gonna take us on a tour through the beautiful Casco Viejo area where the girls can photograph and and and show us like hidden gems around that area. So I'm excited for that too. Beth Santos: that's so awesome. So people can go and book we are BGST dot com and then from there slash Panama Yeah, you can go check Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, it's on there. Uh-huh. Beth Santos: it out. That that is so cool. So what's I mean, Kai Bouhmad: So Beth Santos: what what's coming up next? I mean you've you've you've got a year down, you've launched a lot. Like what do you want to see in the next year? What's gonna happen in the next year? Kai Bouhmad: I wanna do something where I can have like a membership and I'm trying to see what could if people join the membership what the benefits would be for the membership for Black Girls Shoot Too. maybe it includes extra mentorship. maybe discounts on gear, camera gear, and hopefully I could turn this into a non profit maybe and then I could, you know, have and then we can have our own space where we can have our own exhibits, at that our own space I wanna do something like that. Beth Santos: can you imagine if you like had your own space and then you could have like a cute little cafe in there. You could have like Kai Bouhmad: Yeah. Beth Santos: ongoing exhibitions. You could have events Kai Bouhmad: This is going so fast, like Beth Santos: You never know. What do you wish that the travel industry could do for you and for other Black women photographers? Kai Bouhmad: for the black women photographers, I just hope that they get represented everywhere that they go and that, you know, they have better opportunities, like I said, better paid opportunities and and just have the ability to just like shine and just grow and shine in their endeavors, you know? Beth Santos: I think like one of the things that that happens when you create a community like that is like so so much change happens with community and with helping people to feel like they're being seen and they're being respected and they're and that they have like a support network. You know, I think like when you Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, that's out. Yeah. Beth Santos: feel like you have a support network, you you're willing to take risks. Like you're willing to kind of Try new things and get creative and dive in because you know Kai Bouhmad: Mm-hmm. Beth Santos: that like if something goes wrong, people have your back. And so, so I I don't think it's it can be understated how much just first bringing women together and giving them that safety net with each other, even if it's like an emotional safety net, Kai Bouhmad: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Beth Santos: can really spark so much more. You know, whether it's Women making life changes, whether it's career changes, whether it's just having more confidence in themselves and investing in themselves more. And I think what you're creating is a space where maybe there's I I have to imagine, I haven't been to one of your events, but I have to imagine that there's a lot of women that show up that are like, Well, I don't know if I am a photographer, but I think I'm a photographer, you know, or like I like photography. And, you know, like, Kai Bouhmad: Yeah. Yes. Beth Santos: and I think like just by associating yourself, you get to Become that. You know, like you can start Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, but Beth Santos: from like, I think I'm one to like, yeah, I am one. Kai Bouhmad: There was a woman that came and she's from Guatemala and she was talking about her photos and she was and and I said, Hey, are you gonna she's been to one of our events and our workshops and I Are you gonna submit your work to be in the exhibit? And she was just like, No, I don't think I'm a photographer and you know, I just I'm just out that's the same thing she said, I don't think I'm a photographer And sh so I said, just submit your work. Let me see this is a great photo, like submit it. So she submitted it, we put it up, and then guess what happened? So we're the exhibit goes on, everybody loves the exhibit, and she was just like, my god. Can't believe I said when you see your work framed on the correct paper on museum quality paper, it's gonna give you a whole new perspective on your photo. And I I had took some photos and I didn't think that they looked that great. And then once they're fra once you see them like hung on a museum quality paper, it's a whole nother level. And then she was like, I am a photographer. And I was like, see, you are and then fast forward a couple weeks later, I was able to meet the associate director of photography at the Getty Museum. I met her at an event and she came to our exhibit and she was looking at the woman's photo and was like, This is a great photo. I'm like, you have the PhD Getty photographer director looking at your work. So you are a photographer. And she was like, I'm God, she was like, my god, I'm crying right now. I'm crying. I was like, see? Like I mean, you are an artist. Beth Santos: I love this. Kai Bouhmad: You are. So yeah. So she totally was like like psyched up and so happy about it. Yeah. But that yeah. Beth Santos: Why why do you think women why do you think women hold themselves back like that? Kai Bouhmad: I've done that to myself sometime too and then and then sometimes I feel like why was I doing that? Like it's inside of me. I know I I don't know. Maybe we listen to different voices or somebody said something along the way in our life that maybe they said something that made us not believe that, you know, we are that great photographer or that great artist or something. I think that sometimes that can happen. The little voice gets in your head and then you just feel like, you know, Am I really like that good or am I I I struggle with that too. And then it you know one photo that I took in in Jerusalem ended up in the LA Times travel section. And that's when I was just like, okay, I'm a photographer. I mean but before that Beth Santos: I love that. Kai Bouhmad: good photos but why wasn't I thinking that it was like why was I waiting for this whole validation from LA Times I I don't know but it's just interesting when you start thinking about it. It I mean you know it's the little voices sometimes that could like get in your head and that could like trick you into thinking that you're you know not great. I think that happens sometimes with women and I and I I hate that. So that's why I have I'm glad that I have this group and I'm glad that like the girls can come and they can see you know that their work is great and And like I said, a lot of these other publications or other companies, they want you to shoot it this way or shoot it has to be perfectly edited or aesthetically this way. And it's like, no, go out there and practice your art. You can get a good shot. And I don't want people to feel that like they have to have it all perfect and for us to have it in the exhibit. You know, I hate that. So I that's why I s really Beth Santos: Yeah. Kai Bouhmad: started this group. Beth Santos: I think that what's cool about this is, and and you mentioned this, like creating these this outside validation. But but in this case, you are you are creating the outside validation for others. Like the fact that you are doing this international. you know, gallery show. You're basically like, you don't think you're a real photographer? I'm gonna give you a freaking international gallery show. And like now Kai Bouhmad: No right. Beth Santos: you can tell everyone that you did it. So there, mic drop. Kai Bouhmad: So Yeah. Beth Santos: You know, like you're official now. I am crowning you official. You're done now. You know, like, but that's great because like that is how the entire world was created. Kai Bouhmad: Yeah, yeah. yeah Yes. Yeah. That's Beth Santos: It was just people being like, this is a thing now. We're all gonna follow it. You know, like there is Kai Bouhmad: Mm-hmm. Beth Santos: no one authority that's decided what's legit and what's not legit. I mean To a degree anyway. So I think that's okay. You know, it's okay to say we're gonna create these spaces of belonging for ourselves and like you don't think you're a real photographer. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to show that you are, that that's in you and that you can do this just like anyone else can. And then maybe that gives people the freedom to go, yeah, maybe they are now going to like a real museum, you know, or like to a gallery, Kai Bouhmad: Yeah. Beth Santos: to a for profit gallery, you know, and like and and having that confidence anyway, a monologuing. Kai Bouhmad: You know, yeah. But yeah, I agree with all that you said and yeah, I mean it's inside of these artists, you know, it's inside of you. You you you saw something, your eyes saw something, you took a shot and it it meant something to you. So don't be afraid to share it and that's why you have this supportive community of Black Girls Shoot Too with you and some you know, we can critique each other's photos, we can ask each other technical questions and I also feel that like you know, I started another reason why I started this community, I mean my spirit just led me to start it. people ask me why did I start it. It's just I if my spirit felt it, I felt a need for it, and I just executed it, like the plan. Beth Santos: I love it. Kai, thank you so much. This was such a fun conversation. And I can't wait Kai Bouhmad: It was. Beth Santos: to hear how this evolves. Like there's just so much good stuff coming. It's like a little gift that we're just opening right now and seeing what more there is inside. Kai Bouhmad: And the yeah, I'm excited for the future and for everything that's BGST is gonna get planned. So yeah, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be more workshops, exhibits, everything. So I'm looking forward to it. Thank you so much for having me. Beth Santos: Yeah, thanks for being here. wasn't that so good? I know I love having these conversations and getting a chance to just hear the story straight from the heart and really understand how we can transform the landscape for women who are creatives, women who are in travel, women who are trying to rebuild this industry. So I hope you loved hearing from Kai as much as I loved talking to her. Don't forget we have more episodes of 85 Percent popping up. We're dropping them every two weeks. Just go to 8 5 percent all spelled out podcast dot com 85percentpodcast.com. That's gonna get you the most up-to-date episode. You can subscribe to get them straight to your email, or just go wherever you find your podcasts. We are on YouTube, on video, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever podcasts are, that's where we are. There's so many more great things coming. So I really appreciate you being part of this journey with us and hearing more incredible stories. Stay tuned for the next one. We still have a couple more to wrap up. And in the meantime, be well, keep adventuring, and make some memories out there. Thanks everyone. Bye for now.