Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Mark Donaldson about his choice of Kinda (2/4)

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Talks to Mark Donaldson about his choice of Kinda (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blump. Pen Life for doing quicker,
0:35
quicker, quicker. Welcome back to Hamster with a
0:43
Blump Pen Life, the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
0:48
I'm Mark from on the Timelash. And of course I'm joined by the
0:51
actual hosts of Hamster the Blump.
0:54
Pen Life. Hello, Joe.
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Hello there. You do have to say which mark
0:58
you are, you know because it is a fact.
1:00
There are many marks in the Doctor Who.
1:01
You know that is true. That is true.
1:04
I'm Mark Donaldson. Hello Do.
1:06
You know any other bit on this one?
1:07
I know Mark McManus from the Track One podcast.
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Obviously Mark Rubin from To Watch Who Was Mark Cockrum as
1:14
well? Of course I like him on.
1:16
Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah.
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I think what happens is when you're born and you're the birth
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certificate comes back, you know Mark, whatever, you also get
1:28
like a little cards that says you know at the age of the age
1:31
of 21 or whatever, you must start a Doctor Who podcast.
1:36
It's not just marks, you know. There's thousands of the bloody
1:39
things. Now, which one to listen to?
1:45
I Yeah, I don't want to. I don't know if I necessarily
1:48
want to answer that question. I don't know if I want an answer
1:51
to that question because it might make me give up doing
1:54
Doctor Who podcasts. I don't know.
1:56
But basically I kind of just listen to the ones that either
2:00
friends of mine have recommended or that are hosted by friends of
2:04
mine, and I think that's kind of how it starts.
2:08
Are you ready for this? If I like the format, if I like
2:11
the chemistry between the hosts, and if, I just like the sort of
2:15
critique that they're given, So the content.
2:19
And anyone, I think you go horribly wrong when you go right
2:21
while I'm on this. That one anymore, you know.
2:24
Yeah. Because I think way back when I
2:27
did kind of go through it. I think when we were starting on
2:29
the Time, I said I need to listen to some dot Tree podcasts
2:32
to kind of get a lie of the land.
2:34
But that was the last time I properly kind of worked my way
2:38
through like a list of dot Tree podcasts.
2:39
And there's like double them there.
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But of course, the best dot Tree podcast is hamster with a blunt
2:46
pen knife. And that's, that's what the
2:48
people are here to listen to today.
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I think you'll find that's on the time Lash, you know.
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Oh, you're very. Casey, I'm here to listen to
2:56
today. Well, we are going into Kinder
3:00
episode 2, yes. Quick question before we go in.
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Did you first watch this? So I got into talk to you
3:10
properly. So it would be 1996 would be
3:14
when I started buying videos like 92 was when I started
3:17
watching it on telly and kind of just seeing it popping up in
3:19
places and things like that. But it was the TV movie that I
3:23
was like, right, this is my thing though, because it's like
3:26
it's a brand new up and coming series.
3:28
This is going to be great. And then it was like, Oh no it's
3:31
not, but I still like talk to you, so might as well buy all
3:33
the other videos in the books and things like that.
3:35
And so I feel like I bought this quite early on, So I think I
3:41
would have been about 11 or 12 when when I first watched this
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the first time. You watched it?
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I think I was, but I was quite pretentious. 12 year olds, you
3:53
know? I think that's.
3:58
But I definitely didn't understand it.
4:00
Do you know what I mean? Like I think I.
4:02
Add it now, so don't worry about that.
4:05
I think I was kind of more just really intrigued by that kind of
4:10
thing of it was like when I saw the mind dropper for the first
4:13
time and it was like nothing I'd ever seen before.
4:17
So how about you? Yeah, I don't know when this
4:22
came out, but I did get it the year it came out and I was just
4:25
deeply unimpressed. I found it slow, worthy.
4:30
You know, why would I be watching this when Resurrection
4:32
of the Daleks is on my shelf? That's got Daleks blowing their
4:35
way through, you know, air locks and faces melting and.
4:40
Shaving phone flying everywhere. You know that that was the real
4:43
stuff. And actually when Snake Dance
4:46
came out, because I think they came out one month after the
4:50
other, they did Kinder and Snake dance and they did Markov and
4:55
Irani and Time and Irani like that.
4:56
Yeah, it's sort of two sequels. And I love snake dance, which is
5:01
weak, because that's quite slow and that's quite worthy.
5:06
But I think perhaps it has better production values
5:10
overall. And I was that shallow back
5:12
then. Yeah, I think it's, it's
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definitely seems like a more like just in terms of surface
5:19
level stuff. I mean I love steak dance as
5:21
well. I'm not about to be like oh
5:22
really? Yes.
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But I think, yeah, surface level, it looks a lot more
5:26
competent and polished, I think, than Kinder does.
5:30
This is just weird. A more interesting, I think,
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yeah. And you know, something that
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Toby Hayle says about the William Hartnell years is like
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it does weird really well, That's an unknowable atmosphere
5:43
and it is something that the show lost, I think when it went
5:46
into color and it became more action oriented and more sort of
5:50
an adventure story. I don't think we got that back
5:53
again, possibly until that Warriors gate.
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Yeah, I think that's probably. Yeah, I think so.
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I can't think of anything before that.
6:03
I mean, there's maybe weird flashes of things, you know,
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like there's a few sort of what is it?
6:10
Is it in that weird fight scene John Perch we has in the sort of
6:15
trampoline? What's that in the three doctors
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talking about? SAT in the three?
6:20
Yeah, I think that is in the three doctors, isn't it?
6:22
Yeah. It's like in the dark recesses
6:24
of his mind. Yeah, like weird elements.
6:27
But yeah, properly strange Doctor Who stories that don't
6:32
necessarily immediately make sense the first time Ryan's are
6:35
quite rare, and that's, I think Chris Chibnau kind of brought
6:38
those back. Go on, what do you think it
6:43
takes your way? I think is is great.
6:46
I think can you hear me have some elements of this actually
6:50
in terms of sort of talk about certain mental health and and
6:53
sort of dark recesses of the mind and sort of what lurks in
6:58
there? It's a lot more explicit than
7:00
this though, isn't it? In it is, it is.
7:03
And I think that's because I guess people are more
7:06
comfortable talking about those things or there's more of a
7:10
perhaps more of a mission statement from the broadcaster
7:14
to talk about these themes and. I just don't think the
7:17
conversation started at this point.
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TV wasn't there where you can sort of look out the camera and
7:22
say, you know, people have mental health problems.
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Yeah, I think can you hear me? Had a if you've.
7:27
Experience any of these problems.
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I think it did. I think.
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I think it's is it not something like is it not on targets, wiki
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or something? As a fella, it's the first top
7:35
two-story to ever feature if you've been affected by the
7:39
issues and mentioned in the story.
7:42
It's the first top two-story to feature that creepy ass bugger
7:45
standing at the end of the bed in the dark as well with his
7:48
with his detachable thinkers. Absolutely terrifying, honestly.
7:52
But like this is dealing with that stuff.
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He is having a breakdown, it is acknowledged.
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Definitely. But I don't think they were ever
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going to put at the end of this story, if you know.
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If you. If you've had your mind invaded
8:05
by a pan dimensional pink snake, ring this number.
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Yeah, ring this number and a man will be round with a butterfly
8:14
net and a street jacket. That explains those 10 years.
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All right there. Well, let's skip on into.
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Episode 2 Yes, let's do it. See how the very dramatic but
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lacking in Jeopardy cliffhanger revolves itself?
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He's pointing a big. He's pointing a big gun at Peter
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Davison's face. That's Jeopardy.
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Although I mean it looks a bit like one of those like.
8:41
It it looks so it doesn't look like a gun.
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Let's see. Space, gun, space, food.
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They have a bit of problem gardening implement, you know,
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Flipper. Oh, go ahead and count this in.
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All right, we'll go from 554321 and play.
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Off we go. I want to ask you this question
9:06
because I do ask everybody this question.
9:08
What do you think of this title sequence?
9:11
What's your favorite title sequence?
9:14
Oh, OK, so I don't mind this title sequence.
9:18
Actually, I know not everybody loves it, but there's some I
9:22
think. I don't know why.
9:24
I think maybe it's to do with Kinder being one of the earlier
9:27
Doctor Who stories I ever watched, but there is just some.
9:31
This and the McCoy era title sequence are two of my
9:35
favorites, just purely because for some reason it taps into
9:40
some nostalgic hits there. So yeah, I do quite like it.
9:44
And I love Peter Howell's version of the theme tune as
9:47
well. Yeah, it looks like one of
9:50
those. Have you ever seen, like, you
9:51
know, in those catalogs your your, your nan gets?
9:55
It looks like one of those guns that they offer to old people to
9:58
scare cats from their garden. That's what it looks like.
10:01
That looks like the hair dryer I've got in the bathroom.
10:05
Let's though and later on when they're building that city,
10:08
well, the the kind of definitely been using hair dryers to get
10:13
their to get their lovely lovely long locks.
10:15
That's something that Christopher.
10:17
Bailey is appalled about, isn't it?
10:19
And he's like they look like they stepped.
10:21
From a Timothy commercial. They're supposed to be, you
10:24
know, horrible, hairy, dirty primitives.
10:28
Yeah, but they're they're just, yeah, they're just having a
10:32
lovely time. This must be something in the in
10:34
the atmosphere. I swear one of them's got their
10:36
hair crimps, you know, Oh, probably.
10:41
Oh, here they are. Here they are.
10:42
Mary Morris. I love that story that Neris
10:46
Hughes tells in the documentary that like Mary Morris built her
10:50
own house on the like top of a mountain in Switzerland and.
10:55
Didn't she drive in or something?
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Yeah, she drove for hours to get in and she just eats raw
11:02
vegetables, according to Simon Ross.
11:04
Yeah. But she's great.
11:07
Performance, isn't it? It is.
11:09
That's one of those, you know what they say about Doctor Who
11:11
actors like, you just sort of go in and you you have to sell it,
11:15
even though it's a weird bloody part.
11:17
Just play it for it's a bit like a Marin in Brain Amorbius, that
11:22
same sort of old woman. But you got to play it with
11:25
gravity. Yeah, definitely.
11:28
Corona on the other hand, yeah, I always feel bad knocking child
11:34
actors, but then you see a really good child actor.
11:36
They got. Nah, Nah, Nah, to be honest, not
11:40
everybody's. I've.
11:41
Got used to doing it now from the Stephen Moffett era, so I'm
11:44
kind of quite comfortable with knocking the angies and the
11:47
Aussies of this. All right, Stephen, we get it.
11:50
You miss your kids. Stop putting kids in the
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episodes. I'll be hard pressed to find one
11:55
I like. Actually, no, the very first one
11:57
in the 11th hour. The Young Amy.
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She's great. She she loved him into a full
12:03
sense of security that this sort of thing works.
12:07
And we ended up with that fucking brood in in the forest
12:11
for the night, you know? Yeah.
12:13
Very strange. Very, very.
12:21
Sorry, how are we talking about in the forest of the night?
12:23
Well, we're in the forest. There you go.
12:26
There's children. That sounded weird.
12:29
We are not in a forest with some children.
12:31
We're in our houses watching Doctor Who and talking.
12:34
On to counselors now. It's strange.
12:38
Now, the very next story. Has an abundance of.
12:41
Forest location work? Yes, it does.
12:45
It does, yeah, and it looks great.
12:46
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the Visitation, but it looks
12:49
great. Scrubs up on that Blu-ray.
12:52
Yeah. God, it's gorgeous.
12:54
And to be fair, so this time flight, which is weird like all
12:57
the airport stuff, and that's stunning.
13:00
I'll just turn it off after. Episode one and go that was
13:03
marvelous. Contemporary Yeah, it was like,
13:06
it was like can you John Perks way, that was great that.
13:10
Rarest thing, isn't it? As well actually going to
13:12
contemporary for the Davidson era?
13:13
They don't do a lot of it. Well in the 80s in general,
13:16
yeah, there's not a lot there. Even in Tom's era, there's not
13:20
much contemporary Earth, or at least not recognizable to an
13:25
audience. I guess you got Paris, but.
13:28
The the companions that they're bringing in, who are supposed to
13:31
be, you know, from contemporary Earth, Perry Male.
13:35
I mean, how are we supposed to buy into any of these people I
13:38
know? What do you think about this
13:41
then? Cuz Adric was initially brought
13:44
in to be this sort of artful Dodger star.
13:47
So now he's doing tricks and things like that.
13:49
So they're leaning into it a bit.
13:52
It feels like this is a version. This is like a version of from
13:58
like the Christopher H bit meet bit when he first got the
14:03
script. Because I think it does retain a
14:06
lot of those elements that they kind of wanted to the character
14:10
to have when he first kind of turns up in front full circle
14:15
the kind of battered out of him as his as his time goes on.
14:19
But here you kind of get it again.
14:20
You've got the you've got a coin trick.
14:23
You've got how he kind of wheedles his way in with Hindle
14:28
as well. But that's actually like that.
14:33
I'd love that. I think that's great.
14:34
I think it's rare you see a Doctor Who companion have the
14:39
chutzpah to just go. No, you know what?
14:41
The doctor's not going to get this done.
14:44
Like, I need to kind of go undercover and kind of, you
14:47
know, sweet talk this guy and get get a bit more Intel.
14:50
And then now he tries to use the trick to get him out of the
14:53
sale. Yeah.
14:54
As well. That's really fun Trouble with
14:58
him siding with Hindle when inverted commas is he's just
15:02
sided with Monarch in forced doomsday.
15:05
Technically sided with the master in Castro Valva.
15:08
It's becoming a bit of a liability now it is, but at
15:12
least he's never tried to actively kill the Doctor, like
15:14
Turlow will do in the next series.
15:18
So you can say that for Patrick, I think.
15:21
Also, I do wonder if Adric turning quote, UN quote on the
15:27
Doctor would have worked better if this was a Tom Baker story,
15:32
which I guess it's kind of originally intended as because
15:35
you've got kind of the 4th Doctor, the kind of Sanders
15:39
character and this kind of younger sort of Patrick.
15:44
So you could see a kind of connection between him and
15:46
Hindel. Whereas you don't necessarily
15:49
get that with Davidson because he's much younger.
15:52
He's kind of more of ages with with Hindel and actually kind of
15:56
younger than there is Hughes as well.
15:59
Between Waterhouse and Davidson just do not know there's a thing
16:05
on There's a thing on Thomas Wiki which says that Matthew
16:09
Waterhouse didn't give Richard Todd acting advice.
16:12
What he said was he got told off by Peter Grimwades.
16:16
I don't know where that I couldn't find the citation for
16:18
this because in the commentary Waterhouse is like, I don't
16:21
remember this at all, it never happened or if it did happen,
16:24
I've completely forgotten about it.
16:26
So I don't know if it comes out and maybe like a behind the sofa
16:29
or like the info text or what. But apparently Grimwades gave
16:34
Matthew Waterhouse stick for looking into the camera during a
16:37
take that he was doing with Richard Todds and Waterhouse
16:41
sort of jokingly kind of trying that kind of camaraderie kind of
16:45
way with an old British actor. Well, you see, the trick is not
16:48
to look in the camera in a kind of self deprecating way.
16:52
But Davidson overheard this and sort of assumed that Waterhouse
16:57
was giving an acting advice because apparently, as you said
17:00
in the last episode, Waterhouse is obviously the the senior, the
17:04
senior staff member, I guess the senior cast member.
17:07
He's apparently given Davidson advice in the in Castro valve or
17:11
Fort Dooms or whatever it was. So he automatically thought, oh,
17:14
he's again a bloody Waterhouse. The thing is, if he was ever the
17:18
senior member behind the scenes here, he certainly isn't anymore
17:22
in any of that. They they really sort of crash
17:24
him down in the comments behind the sofas and it, but it's
17:28
almost like a bit uncomfortable to watch sometimes.
17:32
It is odd. He's kind of a, but he is kind
17:38
of like Hindle. You do wonder if there would be
17:39
like, you know, a doctor convention maybe they're all in
17:43
the same hotel. There's some kind of accident.
17:47
They're all stuck in a hotel for a bit.
17:48
And Matthew War House goes a bit.
17:50
Hindley, you know, has a breakdown.
17:55
Yeah, that. Would be wonderful, but this is
18:00
great. I love Hindle's whole thing of
18:02
like the outside is against your like watching this during
18:08
lockdown, it was like, yeah, I can relate to that, mate.
18:11
It's because it was like early lockdown as well.
18:13
It was like where everything, if you step outside you could
18:17
actually didn't die like that. Don't go outside that kind of
18:22
that period of it. Yeah, it kind of hits harder.
18:27
If there is another pandemic, please do not watch Kinder, OK?
18:31
It will not do. It was coming because it was
18:34
comfort dogs here because like, I loved it and I was like, oh
18:36
man, this is actually quite close to home, but also kind of
18:39
brilliant as well. How easy would it have been for
18:43
him to over play all of this and Fritzy Pony?
18:49
But I think if you go back a couple of seasons, this would be
18:53
really embarrassing to watch. Yeah.
18:56
And I think, I think there's two things that happen.
18:59
I think the first thing is that everybody else around him is
19:05
sort of playing at a certain level, but also that Simon Rose
19:08
knows exactly how far to push it and when to kind of bring it
19:11
back. I went through the vulnerability
19:13
and when to show this sort of mania.
19:18
It's masterful. It, like Robert Sheerman sort of
19:21
says it's one of the greatest sort of Doctor Who villain
19:24
performances ever. Like, I agree.
19:27
I think it's extraordinary stuff.
19:31
If you go back a couple of seasons you would have had Tom
19:33
Baker taking the piss out of this before you would have Tom
19:37
going up to meet him. Yeah, Davison never does that.
19:40
As if this is the most terrifying person he's ever met.
19:44
Yeah, you know I that sort of unpredictableness.
19:48
Yeah, it's that there we just had it that bet where he goes
19:51
you're not understanding it. And the Doctor, I'm trying to so
19:55
really kind of quiet restrained, like it's the Doctor trying to
20:00
reason with a madman, whereas Baker would be like, I don't
20:02
need to understand you're an idiot.
20:05
Terrible. Well, funny but.
20:09
Yeah, ripping to watch what? And there's been a minute, isn't
20:12
it? Where as a line, Davidson, where
20:14
he goes not half as much as Hindu scares me.
20:17
Yes. Yeah.
20:19
It like that's it. It's so great to see.
20:24
I was thinking about this earlier while I was.
20:28
Making my dinner, I was like, God, actually, you don't get
20:30
another Doctor Who story like this until midnight.
20:33
You know that idea where it's like the Doctor kind of in sort
20:37
of locked in kind of captivity with dust people and people with
20:43
like white, serious, like mental health issues or just a general
20:49
unpredictability and a kind of hard prejudice like in their
20:54
hearts and the Doctor just can. Reason with them and sort of
20:59
engage with them because. They always want to make the
21:02
doctors sort of the dominant force in the show, don't they?
21:06
So always in all of the scenes. So you're right.
21:08
Yeah, it's not very often they make him the vulnerable 1.
21:12
Yeah, in it. People's personality quirks
21:16
rather than a monster. Yeah, exactly.
21:19
And it's just so much more rewarding.
21:21
Like to not have the doctors the kind of constant.
21:26
Untouchable hero that kind of just comes out unscathed.
21:30
It's like there was like, it's really boring.
21:34
If the Doctor just knows the look at David Tennant's first
21:39
series, it's really dull. When the Doctor just knows
21:42
everything, recognizes every planet, every alien species
21:48
there is quite quick and easy in a 45 minute time slot.
21:51
That's a good workaround, but also it's not always that fun to
21:54
watch. Something like this, where it
21:56
properly challenges the Doctor with something he's never seen
21:59
before, which is just human madness and a man going through
22:05
a nervous breakdown. It's quite chilling really.
22:08
It's exactly the same at midnight, isn't it, where he
22:10
cannot reason with those people scared.
22:14
Yeah. And they're all behaving in
22:17
unpredictable ways, like I've known.
22:20
I've not known anyone. Like Hindu, IE on an avian
22:23
planet having a nervous breakdown.
22:25
But I've known men very twitchy and unpredictable like that.
22:28
And he plays all of that brilliantly, wincing, watching
22:32
him going, oh God, when's he going to leap, you know.
22:35
Yeah, it's it's a terrifying performance.
22:37
But it's also, I think what's really good about it is that,
22:42
like I say, there is a vulnerability there.
22:43
And there is a sense that this is he's a man of his
22:49
experiences. You know, it never like Kenda
22:52
never vilifies. Kendall never makes him a kind
22:56
of mustache twirling bad guy or like a lunatic like he might
23:01
have been a year or two earlier. Like, it's properly there's
23:06
little hints of things like this kind of needs for his mother,
23:12
like how Sanders treats him. He's he's a guy who I don't
23:18
think has ever really been allowed.
23:20
To be a child you know he's or to just kind of fun and be loose
23:26
and yeah. Yeah, that's because he is so
23:30
belittled in those early scenes. We're all our sympathies are
23:34
with him then. Yeah, yeah.
23:36
So there's that weird thing about him being the villain, but
23:41
also slightly sympathetic, like a victim.
23:45
Yeah. And I think what's great about
23:47
Kenda is that it has two. It basically has two villains on
23:52
kind of two completely divergent story acts.
23:56
The Mara is completely separate from all this, if the way it's
24:00
playing out makes it feel as if all of this is going to tie
24:04
together, but it kind of doesn't.
24:06
It's that the Doctor can only defeat the Mara once he's sorted
24:10
out Hindel. And then he's got something else
24:13
he has to deal with. Like he basically in episode 2.
24:17
No. In SA three he jumps out of the
24:19
ship so he can go to The Cave and get all about the Mara,
24:23
because that needs to be fun and would free somebody.
24:26
Otherwise why would the old woman just be sitting there
24:28
telling everybody this back story about the Mara?
24:30
But then he goes to the ship to deal with the problem of him
24:34
blowing. Up the planet.
24:35
And then you're right. And then they come out again and
24:37
use the mirrors to stop the Mara.
24:39
Because the great thing is that I think it try.
24:41
I think it's trying to suggest that Hindle is under some.
24:47
I mean, I'm not saying trying. It absolutely does try and
24:50
suggest that Hindle's under the influence of some kind of
24:53
nefarious influence out there in the jungle.
24:58
So you think it's the Mara, you think?
25:00
But no, it's just a man who's been pushed to breaking point,
25:06
and that's a whole separate thing.
25:07
That's genius. Doctor Who does not normally go.
25:12
I did, I did ecology recently on the seeds of death.
25:16
And you know, in the seeds of Death, where you see he
25:20
basically has a breakdown in that story where he betrays up
25:24
on the moon base, he has to murder the Doctor.
25:28
You know they're basically saying if you don't do all these
25:29
things, we're going to kill you. And and it's got a real
25:32
intensity to it. And I remember saying that like,
25:34
you just don't get this in Doctor Who very often.
25:37
No you don't. It's yeah it's it's great and
25:42
and like I think what So what I've always loved with Doctor is
25:46
that it can be anything and never going to get stuck in a
25:51
particular type of story. Well it does but but there are
25:56
these times where it really pushes, pushes it and goes to
26:00
places that other TV shows maybe start.
26:04
I think start. I could see a Star Trek 1st of
26:06
this but. I think it would end with a big
26:10
explosion. I think that's some of the
26:12
weirdness they pull back from some of that, you know, it would
26:15
be more base, less scary scenes than someone's head.
26:19
Yes, definitely, definitely. Apparently John Nathan Turner
26:23
got the script and was like, well, I don't get a word.
26:25
What does. What does all this mean?
26:27
We'll do it, but I don't think he understood a word of it.
26:31
I think I do wonder if there had been more scripts ready if.
26:37
Jnt my God I don't understand this.
26:38
Maybe let's not worry about this one.
26:41
I think I tried to direct. Black orchid and not kinder, but
26:48
you know. My entertainment is his thing,
26:51
isn't it? Basically the direction the show
26:52
eventually heads in. It is.
26:56
It is. But that's in a way I think it
27:00
works. I think you know JNT is a
27:04
precursor to Russell T Davis like.
27:06
You know, both of them know how to be showmen and sort of how
27:11
to. And I think more so with JNT.
27:15
That ends up kind of coming back to buy him on the ass a bit.
27:20
Sort of the way that he kind of, you know, cultivated fandom and
27:23
played to the fans and opened up that kind of relationship
27:26
between the show and and the fans.
27:28
Don't forgive me, he did try to get into bed with the fans and.
27:32
That too. That too.
27:33
He did try to open up some fans as well, but.
27:35
As. So.
27:36
He did. Thank God I was too.
27:39
Young Jesus Christ, oh look at all this with the box of Jana.
27:46
Now now that's interesting idea so irons out your mind.
27:54
What's that? And she just irons out your
27:56
mind, smooths your anxieties. Yeah, and and Sanders just comes
28:03
back chilled out. Just loving life, you know, he's
28:07
in a little paradise. He's got, no, he's not got a
28:11
single care in the world. He's kind of, there's just this
28:15
really lovely idea of kind of being returned to just the kind
28:19
of natural states of living, just like freed from like work
28:26
and responsibility and just living in the moment.
28:30
Like Richard Twad's brilliant from this.
28:33
I mean, he's great. Has the kind of Bulshire
28:35
Sanders. But from this moment on, just
28:37
like, there's just little moments where the camera will
28:39
rest on him and he's just like sort of smiling sweetly and like
28:42
cutting out paper, things like that.
28:47
Can I sit down? You wouldn't have said that in
28:51
episode one. No, no, the.
28:54
The. Shift is so dramatic, isn't it?
28:57
From the Bishop sort of bully boy to being this very.
29:02
Calm at 1:00 so. And it is unnerving.
29:07
Like when he first comes back and it's this complete
29:11
transformation which it transpires, turns out to be a
29:14
good fit when you first see it. It is a bit like oh, hang on.
29:20
I do question though, because obviously Hindel does eventually
29:23
open that box. Come out a better person as a
29:27
result that in that episode this came out, now people were going,
29:31
oh, so that's it, You just opened a box and all of your
29:35
health issues, you know, could you?
29:38
Yeah, people would absolutely do that because it's, oh, it's not
29:41
as simple as that. You know, Hindu was.
29:44
Hindu was a toxic male, you know, and he's made everybody's
29:49
life hell. And what?
29:50
He just gets to open a box and live a peaceful life.
29:56
I know what you think about Janet Fielding here, Mark, but I
29:59
think she does come across a bit sexy.
30:01
He definitely comes across a bit sexy, but apparently she told
30:04
she got told to tone it down. So I'm very intrigued to see how
30:07
far she pushed it. But yeah, this is definitely,
30:11
you know, it's a proper seduction.
30:13
It's not because I'm. I might not be right on this,
30:18
but it does seem like she's maybe loosened the button.
30:21
Oh, definitely. Well, she's been up that tree.
30:24
She's got a topless man in a owl coming towards her, so very
30:30
suggestive. Hey.
30:31
And him. She's stroking him.
30:33
Yeah, and he's interested. Look at that face.
30:38
She's hovering that hand above her chest.
30:42
That's Adrian Mills, that right. Yes, yes, he's a funny one.
30:48
He's a very funny one on the documentary.
30:51
Yeah, he's there's a lot of. It's that school, which I think
30:57
is probably quite fitting for a story like this.
30:59
It is that kind of schoolyard thing of I think he senses blood
31:04
in the water and makes a lot of comments about Matthew
31:07
Waterhouse. But actually watching this after
31:12
watching the making of documentary.
31:14
So what's that last night? What's Kenda this morning?
31:18
You like you've got some cheek, my friend, given the performance
31:24
you deliver. And there's a bit in Part 4,
31:27
which we'll discuss at the time I need to remember to do it.
31:30
But where I think there's a bit in the documentary talks about
31:34
people, you know, not not being in the moment or like people not
31:39
performing as they did in the rehearsal.
31:42
And there's a belter of a bit from him later in the in the
31:46
episodes. You play a scene where you fold
31:49
your arms and go, oh, possible, yeah, you know, how do you play
31:55
that? Behind sort of, you know, like a
31:58
bead curtain of wind chimes, You know it's.
32:01
I love those chimes, you know. Yeah, they're great.
32:04
So they have. Oh, OK, we're heading up to the
32:07
cliffhanger website. Cheesy.
32:08
So yeah, but it's another fantastic cliffhanger, I think,
32:14
because it's all suggestion. Yeah.
32:17
Absolutely suggestion. It's just a wooden box.
32:20
And and I get this, I think this scene is where, like Davison, as
32:26
an actor who's great at exasperation, is brilliant as
32:30
the Doctor, just the where he's trying to get Sanders to explain
32:33
what's in the box and just getting more and more like a
32:37
noise, that there's not a kind of easy, scientific or rational
32:43
explanation for what's inside. I do find her scream.
32:47
Is a little dramatic. Yeah, that definitely to me
32:53
feels like John Nathan Turner or something came down from the
32:57
gallery and was like, Nah, it doesn't really work.
33:01
Can you do a scream? Give it some more, Neris, give
33:04
it some more. Yeah, because it doesn't feel
33:07
very in character for Todd. To scream like it totally feels
33:13
in character for her to be like, hello, hold on a minute, let's
33:16
just figure out what's in this before we open it but for us.
33:21
I like Sanders just sitting there, sort of all excited that
33:24
they're going to open it. Yeah.
33:28
Once, that's another phenomenal clip.
33:31
And you know what? Somehow we talked all over the
33:34
scenes because there was so much to say about Hindu.
33:35
We took all over the scenes in Tegan's head in.
33:38
That we did, there's not as many.
33:41
I suppose it's the transfer of the of the Mara which is is
33:45
quite so we talked a little bit but.
33:48
Like I just wanted to say, I I am frequently quite critical of
33:52
Janet Fielding's style of acting and Doctor is certainly in that
33:55
first couple of stories where I'm coming.
33:57
But they saw is. She she's convicted.
33:59
She while acting for our run, she goes, Pete, Don, talk to me
34:03
about my acting, I thought. But in those scenes where she's
34:08
playing against herself, not only I cannot see the joy.
34:11
In that scene at all. Really well done.
34:14
Laughing at some points and things like that, so technically
34:17
it's a master class, but she plays the panic in those scenes
34:22
brilliantly, so I just wanted to say that because I'm so rude
34:24
about her all the time. That no, she's she is very, very
34:28
good. And in those scenes, just like
34:31
playing two different but the same versions, it's a big ask.
34:35
It is a big ask and I think she does it really well.
34:38
How episode 2 can I ask you? What on earth do you think is
34:42
inside the box of Java? I think it might be, you know,
34:50
like, I don't know, just go with me here.
34:52
You know, back in the day you'd go to like a joke shop and you'd
34:56
get those little jars of peanuts and you would open it.
35:01
Oh no, it's a big snake or something.
35:04
I don't know. It is.
35:06
I know it's a bit of an out there suggestion.
35:09
Well, let's. Find stationed.
35:12
I got it then.