Latest / NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect / Laughing Outside the Box: Matt’s Neurodivergent Journey Through Comedy

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Laughing Outside the Box: Matt’s Neurodivergent Journey Through Comedy · NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect

0:17
Welcome to season 5 of the Neuro Diverse Voices Podcast, the
0:22
podcast that gives a voice to the neuro divergent community.
0:27
My name is Andrea Costa and I am your host.
0:32
I am also the mom to a beautiful 9 year old autistic daughter and
0:36
she is my world. At the age of 42, I was recently
0:41
diagnosed with ADHD and through my lived experience I've
0:45
developed a deep passion for all things neuro diversity.
0:51
My daughter gave me purpose. My neurodivergence keeps the
0:55
passion alive. By sharing my journey, I hope to
0:59
help others feeling seen, understood, and less alone.
1:04
Through conversations with guests from a wide range of
1:08
backgrounds and perspectives, my aim is to challenge assumptions,
1:12
spark curiosity and enlighten all kinds of minds.
1:17
This is and brings another incredible line up of guests.
1:21
From comedians and writers to alternative provision leads,
1:25
therapists, parent advocates and researchers from the University
1:29
of Oxford, every guest has an inspiring journey and a powerful
1:33
story to share. This is a space for honesty,
1:36
connection and celebration where difference is not just accepted
1:41
but valued. Hi everyone, welcome to the
2:04
first episode of season 5 of the Neuro Diverse Voices podcast.
2:08
And I couldn't have wished for it to start in in a better way
2:13
with a very special guest today. He's another member of the
2:18
Richardson family, so I've interviewed his mum, his brother
2:21
in the past and now I have the chance to to meet him.
2:25
He's late diagnosed ADHD as well and he's they or slash.
2:31
Good evening job is as a comedian.
2:34
Welcome to the Neuro Diverse Voices podcast, Matt Richardson.
2:37
Thank you very much for having me.
2:38
You've got what's three of the four family members now you've
2:41
got one left and then you've got the full sweep.
2:43
Yeah, exactly. I think I need to reach out to
2:46
your dad. Absolutely.
2:47
Just so you can like Pokémon. You've got to collect us all.
2:50
Yes, exactly. I'm not doing it on purpose.
2:53
You're just lovely people, an amazing family.
2:56
So yeah, I'm very glad to have this.
2:59
Thank you. For having me.
3:00
With all of you, thanks for being here.
3:03
OK, so let's start from the beginning.
3:07
As usual, so many listeners or the audience will know your,
3:12
your mum Mandy and your brother Alex, who've been previous
3:16
guests in the episode. So can you tell us a little bit
3:19
more about how it was from your perspective, because we know
3:23
their perspectives, how it was to how it was like to grow up in
3:29
your family? It was very positive.
3:32
As you know, you've spoken to my mum and she's sort of very
3:35
supportive and she did lots for Alex when he was growing up.
3:38
I needed less support. So I was quite academic at
3:42
school from quite an early age and didn't really have a lot of
3:46
the difficulties he did. But you know, I guess it was,
3:50
yeah, it was great. And then when Alex came along,
3:52
he's quite a bit younger than me.
3:53
There's eight years between us, so when he was, you know, going
3:57
through the diagnosis process and things, when he was, I was
4:00
already at secondary school, so I was kind of slightly more
4:03
independent, so it didn't really affect me too much.
4:08
Yeah. And have you ever felt like, you
4:11
know, with the attention being focused on, on Alex, that you
4:15
missed something out? No, I didn't, because there was.
4:19
It never felt like there was attention in one place and not
4:21
another. Like, they were very good sort
4:23
of making sure that I didn't feel left behind or left out by,
4:29
you know, Alex needing extra things.
4:31
And it never felt like that as a child growing up.
4:33
I never felt like I was losing out because they needed to give
4:37
Alex more. Ever.
4:39
Yeah. And I thought that's that's the
4:41
case from what I've heard and from what I know about the
4:44
Richardson family. So, yeah.
4:46
And so you've only been diagnosed ADHD recently.
4:52
So you kind of grew up being neurotypical and that's what you
4:57
you thought at the time. So how did you understand Alex's
5:00
autism when you were younger, and how did you support him
5:04
throughout the years? If I, if I'm honest, when Alex
5:07
was young and I was a teenager and Alex was, you know, 567, I
5:13
found it quite difficult because he would, you know, ask a lot of
5:17
questions. He'd always want to be sort of
5:19
coming into your room and doing things when as a teenager you
5:21
don't necessarily even want you don't, you know, it's a younger
5:25
brother situation. Is it more than anything else?
5:27
So if if I am honest, it's taken me a lot of learning over the
5:31
years to be much more patient with him.
5:33
And the things that Alex would find hard and the things that,
5:37
you know, he would find stressful that I had no concept
5:39
of being stressful. You know, certain situations
5:42
like, you know, travelling and going to the airport, all these
5:44
things that he found amazingly overwhelming.
5:46
I had to become more patient and I probably had times where I
5:51
wasn't as patient as I should have been as a teenager.
5:55
And even, you know, even as an adult, I will get times where
5:58
Alex and I are very close. We talk all the time and I will
6:01
find myself being shorter with him than I should be.
6:04
You know, it's, it's, I'm not a perfect example of someone who
6:08
has a neurodiverse person in their family.
6:10
Like I do still find occasionally it is difficult,
6:14
you know, when he wants to tell you the same thing several
6:16
times. Or, you know, I now I've got a,
6:20
you know, I know I've got ADHD. Our brains work at very
6:23
different speeds. So he'll be telling you a story
6:24
and really thinking about it and I'm going, let's get, Yep, Yep,
6:27
let's get to the next bit, please.
6:28
So that can sometimes be a bit of a tricky dynamic.
6:32
But as we've gotten older, I've learnt to be much more patient
6:36
and I've learnt to be better with him.
6:37
And we are close and you know, I absolutely adore him.
6:39
He's definitely the best of the two of us.
6:43
Yeah, it's, it's the conflict between ADHD and autism is, is
6:48
quite interesting, isn't it? But it's something that you
6:52
learn to to understand and it's, it's a constant learning journey
6:59
basically. Yeah, and especially because,
7:00
you know, it's only the last few years as people have talked
7:02
about ADHD more that I've, I've kind of, you know, that there's
7:07
been inklings that I've got it. You know, I've always been very
7:10
energetic and, you know, sort of distractible, disorganised, all
7:13
the classic ADHD things. But because I was academic and I
7:16
wasn't badly behaved, you know, back in the 90s and early 2000s
7:20
when I was at school, the perception of ADHD was, oh, they
7:23
are naughty, which obviously isn't the case, you know, and I
7:27
think because I could get away with sort of coasting a bit in
7:32
certain subjects, like if I loved something, I would, you
7:34
know, give it my all. But I found that, yeah, I've I'm
7:38
only just learning that those were flaws that were that.
7:43
Yeah, it's the the hyper focus and the.
7:45
Yeah, all those things. And you know, I think actually,
7:49
like my mum, we had an interesting conversation when I
7:52
first got tired because she was the one that sort of a few
7:54
people had. I mean, if I'm honest, a few
7:56
people had said to me, especially as people were
7:58
getting diagnosed, you know, a few other comedians, that is
8:01
another thing is loads of comedians got ADHD and they all
8:06
act surprised about it. But it's the perfect job for
8:08
someone with ADHD because it is irregular.
8:11
There's constant ups and downs. Like, you know, the dopamine
8:13
hits and you know the UN, the UN how unsure you are about where
8:18
things are going. You know, that kind of like
8:20
stress appeals to people with ADHD.
8:23
It's different every night. You're in a different place
8:25
every day. It's constant.
8:26
You know, they'll be ebbs and flows, like you'll be really
8:28
busy then there's nothing that it is unique to an ADHD person
8:34
to want to do. You know, I've got lots of
8:35
friends who think my job is absolutely awful and they
8:38
couldn't imagine living the life I live and I couldn't think
8:41
about doing anything else. And loads of comics have got,
8:44
it's become a hacked subject in comedy.
8:45
Everyone's talking about their ADHD and, and I think those
8:49
things like my mum and I were chatting.
8:50
So I've gotten typical, I've got distracted, but my mum and I
8:54
were chatting and she went, oh gosh, like, you know, I think
8:56
you should go and get diagnosed. I know more about it now working
8:58
with kids with it. And she offered to pay for me to
9:01
go and get diagnosed. So I did.
9:03
And yeah, absolutely smashed it 10 out of 10 on that test.
9:07
He was a very, I've got a lot of it, both sides of it as well.
9:10
But when I got diagnosed, my mum sort of did have a moment of
9:15
reflection with me where she was like, oh God, maybe your life
9:18
would have been different if we'd have done this, you know,
9:20
decades ago when you were younger if we'd realized.
9:22
But she went, no one ever, no one ever said anything.
9:24
No one ever told us. And actually, you know what
9:27
they're like as parents, You know, AT18I, I decided I was
9:30
going to be a comedian. I started doing gigs and they
9:32
were super supportive, and then a year and a half later dropped
9:35
out of university to be a professional comedian.
9:38
And they supported me through every step of the way.
9:40
So even though there wasn't necessarily that support for
9:43
ADHD early because no one knew about it like they do now, I
9:47
think they've really made-up for that in my life when I've made
9:49
unusual choices that are linked to that and been incredibly
9:53
supportive with it. Yeah.
9:54
And I think that's key, right. If you, if you have, even if
9:59
you're not aware and you know, there's, there's a bit of a
10:02
conversation going on at the moment between, is the diagnosis
10:05
really needed for you to, to get the support you need?
10:11
Yes, in certain aspects. In certain cases possibly, but
10:16
not in all cases. Yeah, self aware.
10:19
Absolutely. And also, look, I mean, for
10:21
years it's kind of people have said over the last few years and
10:23
I've been like, yeah, I probably do have it.
10:25
I ended up coming around to the diagnosis because I wanted to
10:28
try the drugs. I wanted to see if they would be
10:31
helpful. And that's when I started to be
10:33
interested is when I knew more about that side of it and I knew
10:36
people who were taking them and it had really improved their
10:39
life. So that's for me, like getting
10:42
diagnosed, I think for a lot of people is a kind of a tricky
10:46
moment of reflection that, you know, what they deemed their
10:50
self, You know, like my mum said about Holland and you know what
10:54
mum said about Holland and Italy, I, I wasn't bothered
10:58
about going to Holland. Like, you know, the guy who
11:00
diagnosed me, Gavin, who's brilliant, Gavin Partridge did
11:04
say to me he went, you know, people do go through a like a
11:06
period of mourning. This is a difficult time.
11:08
And I was, I didn't go through the grief at all.
11:11
I was like, yeah, that's fine. I would like the help, please.
11:14
So that because I had that goal and also I was kind of like I
11:17
was comfortable with myself and I knew what I was like.
11:19
I think it was much easier. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
11:23
And it's also very interesting to learn that there's a whole
11:26
conversation about ADHD and and comedians.
11:29
Oh my God, we've all got it. Like everyone like.
11:32
You go talking. Sense you do a, you do a comedy
11:34
club now and there's like 3 comedians on and if you're on
11:36
last, you're like, I can't do my ADHD material because they've
11:40
all done theirs like and you don't need everyone talking
11:43
about it. So it does feel strange.
11:45
But I guess you know, it's like any neuro diversity.
11:47
I think you do find each other in life, don't you?
11:50
Even if you don't realise, you end up like Alex once said to
11:53
me, he went, I can't believe none of my friends are autistic.
11:57
They've not been diagnosed, Alex, but they probably are
11:59
having met them, you know? And that is not a bad thing.
12:01
But yeah, we've all converged to that weird job.
12:04
And also it helps because you know, I'm not going to admin.
12:07
I've never. I'm better now that I'm
12:09
medicated, but I've always had, since the age of 1920, I've had
12:13
agents and things like that in my life who sort of do all that
12:16
for me. So it's I've found a life where
12:19
I've managed to get through because a lot of the things that
12:22
people with ADHD struggle with, I don't have to do.
12:25
So when I got diagnosed, Gavin said he was like, look, if you
12:28
worked in an office, we probably would have done this 10 years
12:31
ago because it would. Have been more evident.
12:34
Yeah, yeah. Whereas actually, like the life
12:36
I lead is perfect just to coast with it.
12:41
Yeah, yeah, very, very interesting.
12:44
Yeah. I I I still need to go and and
12:47
book one of your shows because I haven't had the chance to.
12:50
Please do. Yeah, they're good fun.
12:52
But yeah, I do. And even like now I talk about
12:54
it on stage, so I talk about getting diagnosed.
12:56
It was in February of 2025. So it's been less than a year.
13:00
And I talk about it and, you know, it's all jokes about it,
13:04
but I sort of, and loads of people are coming up to be
13:06
going, oh, I got diagnosed late. And like, this one woman came up
13:08
to me in Reading the other week and she'd been diagnosed in her
13:11
50s. And a friend of mine is going
13:13
through it in her 50s because as she's hit perimenopause, she has
13:17
said the symptoms have gotten much worse.
13:20
So all those changes in her body have made her realise that
13:22
actually, probably she has ADHD as well.
13:25
And that's really interesting too, that I think as the
13:27
Physiology of your body changes, they used to just say women got
13:30
dotty or, you know, oh, God, she's got really scatty.
13:33
But you're like, actually, you know, as her body changes, the
13:36
symptoms are getting far worse for her.
13:38
And that's what it may have always been.
13:40
Yeah. And I, I, I joined that, that
13:43
club, not being sure yet if I'm perimenopausal, but yeah, I'm
13:48
waiting for an assessment as well because I, yeah, I, I
13:53
relate and when I, I relate very much with what you are saying,
13:56
when I look back, there's so many things that that make
13:58
sense. So let's see.
14:00
Do you find so? Were you diagnosed with autism
14:03
or ADHD or you you got numb? No, not yet.
14:07
I'm on the waiting list through Right the Truth and I think.
14:11
A lot of people I know, like yourselves who are waiting and
14:13
get the assessment. Like it didn't, it didn't upset
14:16
me in any way. But like, there's a lot of
14:17
things I go oh, like, so for example, my dad is very clean
14:20
and tidy. I'm super disorganised.
14:22
And like, he used to give me a really hard time for that as a
14:24
teenager, you know, and he just thought it was me being a
14:26
typical lazy teenager. And you look back and you go,
14:28
Oh, no, like actually all of that was kind of symptomatic of
14:33
what I was like was, was of my ADHD rather than just, I was
14:37
being annoying. And I look back and I think, or
14:39
maybe that would have been useful to know that back then
14:42
and make the adjustments or be, you know, take Ritalin or
14:45
whatever it would have been, would have been as a child.
14:47
But now I look at it and there's a lot of things where I go, I'm
14:49
just more forgiving about how I am.
14:52
And I often with a, with my life, I will take on loads of
14:56
stuff like I love, you know, filling my diary and all that.
15:00
And, and then, and then I burn out quite quickly and then have
15:03
to cancel things. And actually now I've got a
15:05
diagnosis I'm much more aware of that's a problem that is
15:10
unfixable. Like I'm not just going to be
15:12
fine one day with taking on loads and then having to pull it
15:14
out. So I'm trying to be a bit more
15:16
gentle with myself and forgiving with a lot of things.
15:18
So, you know, like for example, today we're doing this and then
15:23
I've got I'm going to London to do a tour show.
15:25
And normally I would have tried to fill my day up.
15:29
I'd have done loads of jobs. If I was having one of those
15:31
days or even when I first started taking the meds, I would
15:34
do, I'd have had a full day of like, I need to do the lawn, I
15:37
need to do this and that. And then I would be knackered
15:40
and I'd really crash in the evenings, especially with the
15:42
meds because that is a problem. Any that could be a problem
15:45
anyway. But now I've had a very easy
15:48
morning, We'll do this. I'll probably try and have a
15:49
snooze and then I'll get like, you know, I'm just trying to
15:52
like, I'm trying to not overload myself because I know that
15:56
that's what I've always done. And then I don't achieve what I
15:59
want to achieve. Yeah, I know, I know the
16:01
feeling. It's exactly the same with me
16:03
because yeah, I work Monday to Thursday almost a full time job.
16:06
Then I have this, then I have coffee mornings that I, that I
16:09
run for parents. Then, you know, at certain times
16:12
of the years, I of the year I go to, to, to school and and talk
16:16
to the children about neuro diversity.
16:19
Alex came once with me beginning of this year.
16:24
So yeah. And then my brain has so many,
16:27
many more ideas and I just want to do everything.
16:30
But even though I don't have a diagnosis yet and I don't know
16:35
well, I met the criteria to be put on on a list.
16:38
So I'm almost certain at least of the ADHD.
16:41
But with me, it's what we just mentioned actually the conflict
16:46
between potentially autism because I really need the
16:49
structure to function. And my daughter, she's, she's
16:53
autistic. We also put her on the
16:56
assessment list for ADHD now. But this house is always a mess.
17:02
And I'm a bit like your dad. I like organized clean spaces
17:06
for my brain to have the head space and for me to function.
17:10
But there's, you know, she's messy.
17:12
But I'm, I understand that it's, it's how she is.
17:15
So I support her that way. But then it's the conflict
17:18
between. I think it's.
17:20
Absolutely, but there's also conflict within like I function
17:23
really well in tidy space and organise and organise spaces.
17:26
And before I would have, you know, every few months we'd go
17:29
right, I'm organising everything, I'm doing the
17:31
garage, I'm doing whatever. I'm going to sort out this and I
17:33
get halfway through it and stop doing it and not not finish it,
17:37
obviously, because that's, you know, how ADHD is.
17:39
But but then, but then now I'm much better, but I'm also better
17:43
at going, Oh, you know, I think the same.
17:45
And you know, you're doing your own thing, like you're running a
17:47
podcast and things. And I think there's a bit of you
17:49
that goes, I always need to be doing stuff, you know, and also
17:52
culture now is the hustle culture of life that, you know,
17:55
you always need to be working. What have you got on the side
17:57
and all this? Whereas actually now even today,
17:59
you know, I've done a load of bits, I've done some emails, I
18:02
need to do some video editing, which I'll do on the train.
18:04
And then, but I go, actually I'm going to go and have an hour.
18:07
I just lie down and even if I don't sleep, I'll just chill out
18:09
and listen to a podcast or something.
18:10
And having those moments for yourself that actually I've
18:13
realized I need to function because I'm wired differently
18:17
compared to people who don't need them.
18:18
Or even when I'm sat, you know, really into it, like doing
18:21
whatever, like admin writing. I always, you know, now I go,
18:24
oh, I need a break because my brain's different, rather than
18:27
oh, I'm lazy and I can't finish something.
18:30
Yeah, you changed the narrative of.
18:31
Yeah, and that's been really helpful actually.
18:33
And actually like, you know, I've gone and found lots of
18:37
things that, you know, other people with ADHD on like forums
18:39
or whatever say really help with them.
18:41
Like so before I would have never thought to have A to do
18:44
list and things like that and like would never even have
18:46
crossed my mind. Whereas now I need a bit more
18:49
organization in my life, but I've got the wherewithal to do
18:52
it because the medication pushes me into wanting to do things and
18:58
just makes me think about things differently a little bit.
19:01
Just gives me that breath almost to then go this is what I need
19:04
to do today rather than everything being manic all the
19:06
time. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I think.
19:09
I've never paid a tax bill on time before this year, you know,
19:12
even though I know I need to do it and it's not like I'm going I
19:14
don't have the money like I put the money as I'm terrible with
19:17
money. That's another big thing for me.
19:19
I've always I'm shocking with money, but I have a bank account
19:22
now that splits it all up for me.
19:24
And but even before it was splitting it up for me and I go,
19:26
I need to pay that today and it's a 30 second job and then I
19:28
wouldn't pay it and then I get fined.
19:31
You know, like all these things that you go, why was I like
19:34
that? And you go, well, I couldn't
19:35
help it. But we're not designed for this
19:37
world. I'm sure if when we were all
19:38
living in caves, we had a very specific function.
19:41
People with ADHD, yes. Me too.
19:44
Yeah, but we don't, you know, But office life has taken that
19:47
away from us. Yes, definitely.
19:51
OK. So looking back at I'm going
19:53
back to growing up, what are some of the standouts memories
19:57
that you have growing up with with Alex?
20:00
Well, with Alex, so I mean, there's so many he's he's a
20:05
really interesting character because his disposition is so
20:09
beautiful. You know, if we could be more
20:12
like Alex, my other half. And I often say like, God, if I
20:15
was more like Alex and just looked at the world a bit like
20:17
Alex. And he's been like that since he
20:19
was little, you know, like he's always just been a ray of
20:22
sunshine. Like whatever's going on, Alex
20:24
can just cheer you up. Or, you know, he loves a cuddle.
20:28
You know, when he was literally really loved a cuddle and all
20:30
that. And even now your likes have
20:31
given you a cuddle. And it's, it's just, he's just a
20:34
joy to be around. And like, we went away for his
20:36
21st. I took him to Orlando for his
20:38
birthday because he loves theme parks.
20:40
And we went and you know, it was almost better than going with a
20:43
child because you're looking at it through his eyes.
20:46
And I I like all that stuff as well, but just seeing it from
20:49
his perspective I think makes experiences richer.
20:54
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And he always has a smile on his
20:57
face, which. Is, oh, my God, always has a
20:59
smile on his face when he rings me to tell me about his day.
21:01
He just wants to, you know, he just wants to talk about things.
21:03
And you think, Oh yeah, everything's all right because
21:05
Alex is happy, so life is good. Yeah.
21:08
And what about you, what with we talked yes with with growing up
21:13
any anything that stand out as as a memory you talked about
21:17
challenges. Yeah, I mean.
21:19
Maybe one of one of the strengths.
21:22
I mean, I'm, I've always, since I was God knows how old, been
21:27
incredibly outgoing. Like I, I used to stand up
21:31
school assemblies, all those things never bothered me.
21:34
I did magic for a long time. I used to do magic shows in my
21:37
garage for things. So I think for me growing up, I
21:40
always really enjoyed being that.
21:42
I've never been anything else. And I think I, I think that was
21:45
nurtured by my mum as well. Like she was very good at that.
21:48
But yeah, there's so many because, you know, I loved,
21:51
there's so much I loved about growing up.
21:53
Like I was had lovely friends. I went to nice schools.
21:56
I was quite lucky with that. And, you know, I'm still friends
21:58
with people that we grew up since we were six together and
22:01
we're still really good friends. Like, so I loved all that, like
22:04
going and doing anything that's to do with knowledge and
22:07
information. I'm a fountain of useless
22:10
knowledge. So like every time we went to a
22:12
museum or like my granddad when I was 10, took me to Luxor in
22:17
Egypt to go and see the tombs and to go to all, the, all the,
22:21
the temples because I loved the Egyptians.
22:23
So that was a real highlight. And then he took me to Alaska
22:26
and Canada because I just loved going to see things in any sort
22:29
of travel I always found really exciting.
22:34
And I love new stuff. I love going somewhere new.
22:36
Like, I'm not someone that can go to the same place every year
22:41
on holiday. Like, I love going somewhere and
22:42
having a bit of an adventure and that kind of novelty.
22:44
I really, really appeals to me. And when I was young, we used to
22:46
go to all sorts of really interesting places.
22:48
Or, you know, my mum taking me up to London to go to the
22:50
museums or, you know, taking me wherever we could to go.
22:54
And just anything that was like factual and interesting was what
22:57
I really loved. And I still do.
22:59
I'm great at a pub quiz. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's
23:02
great. And it's you can see the way you
23:04
speak about, you know, even the being outgoing, you know, your
23:11
current job is, is like the perfect and I'm pretty sure it
23:15
doesn't feel like work for you, which is something that not many
23:18
people can. Although, interestingly, lots of
23:20
comedians aren't outgoing. It's very much like on stage
23:24
they are. And off stage they're really shy
23:25
and quiet and you know, it's, it's very much an outlet.
23:28
Whereas for me or you meet them in real life, there's a lot of
23:31
comics you meet and you go, oh, they're nothing like they are on
23:33
stage. I am exactly the same.
23:36
Yeah. It doesn't feel like I'm coming
23:37
on. Naturally.
23:38
Yeah, yeah. This is just what if I didn't do
23:40
stand up, I would be the most annoying person in whatever job
23:43
I worked in. But thank God I've got an
23:46
outlet. Otherwise I would be that guy in
23:49
every office going, oh, everyone says that I should be a
23:51
comedian. I would be really hard to be
23:54
around. Yeah.
23:56
Well, that's that's amazing. And I can be like, even when we
23:59
went away with my mum, Sam and I mow the half and like, my mum's
24:02
like, can you just sit and, like, read a book or in, you
24:04
know, entertain yourself? But I need people.
24:07
Like, I'm, I need people and stuff.
24:09
Like, I'm very, I'm really social and I need a company.
24:13
I'm terrible in my own company. Yeah.
24:16
I'm the same. I'm exactly the same.
24:17
Not the comedian part. And the, you know, give it a go.
24:21
I'm very surprised I'm actually accused of not having a sense of
24:25
humour by by Really. Maybe don't come to any of my
24:27
shows then. No, I should go.
24:29
I I I I like comedy and. Oh good.
24:33
I've only been to a comedy show and do you know Hannah Gatsby?
24:36
I do know Hannah Gatsby. Yeah, I know who she is.
24:39
So. She went to see her.
24:41
I went to see her in London because, you know, she's also an
24:45
an autistic advocate. Yeah, she has a very neuro
24:48
diverse audience. People have really connected
24:50
with her, that from that world, yeah.
24:52
So I watched the shows on Netflix and then she came to
24:55
London. So we we went to see her, but
24:57
that was it. And in Portugal, where I'm from,
24:59
comedy is very is a, is a big thing for us.
25:03
So I, I know all of the well, probably not these days anymore
25:07
since I'm living here for 17 years now, but I there's quite a
25:11
lot of people who who still make me laugh, but I need to get more
25:15
into. Yeah, go to more.
25:18
Yeah, absolutely. And there's loads of really
25:20
interesting comedians talking about neuro diversity as well.
25:22
Like it's, it attracts neuro diverse people as a job, but it,
25:27
there are some people who really talk about it very funnily and
25:30
brilliantly. There's a great guy called Joe
25:32
Wells who talks about autism on stage and he wrote a book about
25:35
it and everything. He is phenomenal and really
25:38
gives you a fresh perspective on on it all.
25:41
And it's really interesting. Like, I think the last 10 years
25:44
maybe comedy has become much more personal for people and
25:48
they're talking about all these things and it makes it a much
25:50
more interesting place. Yeah, definitely.
25:53
Yeah. I think I've heard about Joe
25:55
Wells. Yeah, he's phenomenal.
25:56
He's great. Yeah.
25:59
So when you mentioned that that everyone is, is, is making jokes
26:04
about ADHD, but how I'm guessing that not everyone in the
26:10
audience will, you know, of course, I think if it attracts a
26:14
new divergent audience and you go with that mindset, you're
26:16
going to watch a comedy show that you should be open to what
26:20
comes out. But how do you balance the
26:24
seriousness of some situations and and comedy making?
26:31
Sure. Well, there's I think there's
26:32
comedy in a lot of serious situations, like when
26:33
embarrassing or bad things happen, like often that ends up
26:37
with things you talk about, you know, but I think with the the
26:39
neuro diverse thing, I might it's I don't talk about it for
26:42
very long in this show. I do a few minutes on it and
26:44
talk about, you know, how it feels like I've got a bit where
26:47
I'm not going to swear on the podcast, obviously, but you
26:52
where people would kept telling me, people kept being like, have
26:54
you been tested for ADHD? And I'm like, you're just
26:57
telling me I'm annoying. That's what you're trying to be
26:59
polite, but you're still just I don't use those.
27:01
I'm much ruder about it. And it's sort of talking about
27:03
that and like sort of I didn't like people saying that.
27:06
So I basically talk about, you know, I went for the test to
27:08
prove them wrong and it turns out everybody was right about me
27:11
apart from myself. So yeah.
27:12
But I think people know enough. There's enough knowledge about
27:15
these things now that you can joke about it and people don't
27:17
feel disconnected. Look, I wouldn't want to go even
27:20
I wouldn't want to go and watch a comedian talk for an hour
27:23
about ADHD. That's not.
27:25
But like a little, I do a few minutes on it and then I move
27:27
on. So I think people know enough
27:29
now that it's not something people are unusual and it's not
27:33
unusual to hear about it anymore.
27:35
So yeah, but I think years ago, people wouldn't have really
27:37
known. And I think we now have more of
27:39
an understanding that ADHD isn't just one naughty kid.
27:42
Yeah, definitely. Who is not able to sit in a
27:45
chair at school and and at home? Yeah, and like having to take
27:50
pills to be like better behaved, like that was sort of a weird
27:53
thing back in the day that to think, think that.
27:55
Whereas now, you know, like medication has changed my life.
27:59
Like I, I've, they've really, it doesn't work for everyone.
28:02
I understand that. But it's really worked for me
28:04
and really helped me so and made me feel better.
28:08
So I think it was interesting. I've got a friend with a son
28:12
who's got ADHD, who's a teenager and he they would, they think he
28:18
should try meds, they think it would help him.
28:19
They they think that, you know, they're a positive thing and he
28:22
still feels stigmatized about them.
28:23
So I met up with him and had a chat about it and just talked
28:26
about why they worked and things.
28:27
And he still went. But everyone at school thinks
28:31
that if you're on the drugs, it's really weird.
28:34
You know, you're God. He's he's had to take drugs to
28:36
not be himself. And he was worried it would
28:39
change who he was, you know, all those things which are still
28:41
stigmas that needs to be talked about.
28:42
So on stage I talk about that. I'm medicated.
28:44
I'm like, yeah, they're brilliant.
28:46
I'm on them, they're great. They're expensive, but apart
28:48
from that, wonderful. Yeah, yeah, we need to
28:51
normalise. Yeah, but people are still
28:53
weird. Things.
28:54
Absolutely. And like I have OCD as well,
28:57
which is apparently quite common with ADHD, not the cleaning
29:00
type. Obviously you can't have that
29:01
with ADHD. But and I, so I've been on
29:04
sertraline for that for years on and off.
29:07
And I remember when I first went on that I was really embarrassed
29:10
about it. And I think people still are
29:12
embarrassed about those things. But if I had high blood, blood
29:14
pressure, I'd take the meds for that without even batting an
29:17
eyelid. If I was diabetic, I would have
29:19
insulin to make my life livable. And with these it, that's how I
29:23
feel about it now is it's exactly the same.
29:26
Yeah, yeah, it's this idea that's only physical.
29:30
Yeah, but it, but, you know, it is physical because it's a
29:32
chemical imbalance. So that is a physical thing.
29:35
Like it's a measurable physical thing.
29:37
So I think we need to start looking at a lot of mental
29:39
health and, you know, neurodiverse things.
29:43
It is a physical thing because it's a, it's a wiring problem or
29:46
not a problem's a bad word, but it's a wiring difference, isn't
29:49
it? Rather than anything.
29:50
So it is physical, you know, it can be.
29:52
Measured so. Yeah, and like, and they're not
29:55
for everyone. Meds aren't for everyone.
29:56
I understand that. But they've, yeah, I, I really
29:59
like mine. Yeah, that's good.
30:01
That's good to hear that you have that.
30:03
Oh, I've used spreadsheets for the first time in my life.
30:05
They're brilliant. I've been using spreadsheets for
30:09
for years. Sometimes I could get rid of
30:11
them, but. Yeah, that's yeah.
30:12
They're not my favorite thing about the job.
30:14
I can do it now. Good.
30:17
OK. And if you and Alex had to do a
30:20
comedy double acts, what would it be called?
30:25
Oh gosh, Oh my goodness. I guess it would be called
30:27
ginger and curls or something and he would be really good.
30:31
Alex is quite funny and he he sort of really likes it when I'm
30:37
the butt of a joke as well. So I'm getting married in
30:40
January and he's my best man. And I've said to him, I'm like,
30:43
you don't have to do a speech. It's absolutely fine.
30:45
Then he wants to and I'm like no, no, no, please don't.
30:47
Because you'll say some really funny things in front of all
30:50
these. There'll be loads of comedians
30:51
there and they'll all think he's funnier than me.
30:53
Like he's got a really good sense of humour and it comes to
30:56
loads of comedy with me like, so I think he'd be quite good
30:59
really. I think his timing wouldn't be
31:01
brilliant necessarily. Like sometimes with a joke he
31:03
sort of messes that up, but he's got a funny mind.
31:06
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds, that sounds good.
31:09
And I think yeah, it would. It's so he's so confident as
31:15
well. Yeah, and that's something
31:16
that's been really nurtured by Mum and dad, really.
31:19
Like I, I was born like this. Alex has become who he is
31:24
through them. If anything, they've tried to
31:26
like, pull me back a little bit, like a little bit too much.
31:29
Like, you know, Ros, Alex was always worried about people
31:31
making fun of him and things. I didn't care.
31:33
Like, who cares if they're making fun of me?
31:35
Like I went round school for two years as an 11 year old and a 12
31:38
year old with everyone calling me Doris and I was an honorary
31:40
girl. I don't care like I'm, I'm
31:42
shameless. Whereas Alex has had to nurture
31:45
that side of him and he's it's really come out.
31:48
Yeah, but that's that's really good to see that you you could
31:53
be yourself and and you don't care.
31:55
Totally. And we are Alex and I are chalk
31:57
and cheese on paint. Like we, you know, I am the
32:00
opposite of Alex in almost every way really.
32:03
You know, like he's obviously it was quite quiet.
32:06
I'm very confident. I was quite academic.
32:08
He struggled with that things. I'm incredibly handsome and he
32:11
is, you know, redhead and and I think it's yeah.
32:16
And, and there was never a time where they tried to make him
32:19
like me, like very early. Like it was, we were so
32:22
different. And I think there was never a
32:23
sort of comparison between us, which is really nice.
32:26
Even when I started doing things like, you know, when I was doing
32:28
stand up and started doing television and like, hosting TV
32:32
shows, like there was never a moment where, like, Alex was
32:34
made to feel like he was, you know, oh, I'm doing all this.
32:39
So he should be trying to do that kind of thing as well.
32:41
Like, he's always been told that he's got his own path and that
32:44
that's what's important. And same with me.
32:48
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing.
32:52
And what do you have like the funniest classic ADHD thing
33:00
you've done, either at a younger age or more recently?
33:05
I mean, I got through 5 debit cards in eight months once
33:09
because I kept losing them. How about that?
33:11
That's a bad one, isn't it? That's classic ADHDI had to stop
33:15
buying. I had a nice wallet and I had to
33:17
stop buying nice wallets because there was no point because I
33:20
wouldn't keep them. I've never finished a debit or
33:23
credit card. I've never gotten to the end my
33:25
friend Angela Barnes, who is also got ADHD, He's a very funny
33:28
comedian. She talks about it, she said.
33:30
You know when cards had an issue number on them?
33:34
Yep. Yeah, when they let me, she, she
33:36
got up to 97. Yeah, I've done loads.
33:42
I've forgotten things. Passports at the airport, like I
33:45
just, my life was carnage. So it's not even like they're
33:47
funny. You just go, well, OK, cart
33:50
fines for parking because you forget.
33:52
Oh, I've done it all. The ADHD tax is what they call
33:54
it, don't they? Because you lose everything and
33:56
you get fined all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,
34:01
absolutely. And what advice would you give
34:04
to other siblings of autistic people who might sometimes, you
34:10
know, feel a bit on the side? Yeah.
34:13
And and maybe to to other ADHD. With the with the, I feel almost
34:20
more like the ADHD thing for me is still quite new.
34:22
So I don't feel like I've got any advice really.
34:24
Like, you know, I went and got a diagnosis and I've been
34:27
medicated and that's really helped me.
34:29
So I'd advise that if you think that would help you, but also I,
34:33
I was good on the, I'm on L vans that worked for me.
34:35
Like I, you know, it's a journey and also going through the
34:38
titration, like all that. Like you got to be kind to
34:41
yourself during it because like there were times where I would,
34:44
you know, take it and feel terrible and then the next day
34:46
feel like you've just got to be forgiving of yourself and give
34:49
yourself some time with the with the sibling thing of a sibling
34:55
with someone with autism, patience and like try and find
34:58
something that you can share together as well.
35:00
Like for a long time, you know, Alex and I weren't into the same
35:04
things, but you know, he likes the theme park.
35:05
He likes certain things that we can talk about.
35:07
Music was a big thing for us. Like we got into the same band.
35:10
So we go and see Green Day together and things try and find
35:13
common ground. But I wasn't always perfect with
35:15
the patients. And I think that's really hard,
35:17
but just try. And show them that you are you
35:22
are trying. Yeah, that's it.
35:23
I think that's The thing is you know, and also if you do mess up
35:27
and you are short with them or you know, you get irritated, you
35:30
get irritated, just take a breath, give yourself a break it
35:33
it happens and then just try and be better the next time.
35:37
Yeah, definitely, because they, they will have their own, their
35:40
own pace. And yeah, I, I, I often say it's
35:43
a bit of a test to our patients. And yeah, if you're ADHD, it's
35:46
it's even. Well, that.
35:47
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
35:49
Like I'm trying to finish people's sentences when they're
35:51
when they're know what they're going, what the next bit's going
35:53
to be. And sometimes with Alex, when he
35:55
was younger, he didn't know where it was going.
35:56
So I would be getting very frustrated.
35:59
Yeah, yeah, I get that. And looking ahead, how do you
36:02
see your ADHD shaping your path, both professionally and
36:07
personally? Well, I think, you know, now I'm
36:09
a diversity hire. I might get a bit more work.
36:11
That's exciting because I was just a boring white man before
36:14
that. And I've got a thing now,
36:18
finally get me on live at the Apollo.
36:21
I don't know really. I think now that it's managed,
36:24
I'm so much more productive and I'm doing a lot of stuff that,
36:26
you know, I was putting off for ages.
36:28
And you know, the way comedy's gone is a lot of it is now about
36:31
putting videos online and all that.
36:32
And I was just not organized enough to be on it, whereas now
36:35
I can sit and do video editing for a few hours or whatever
36:38
else. So I would say it's just
36:40
improved my work, like my ability to do a lot of the work
36:43
and not leaving things last minute.
36:44
Like I'm on tour at the moment with the show and like it's the
36:47
best show I've ever written because I've actually spent
36:49
loads of time on it rather than, you know, getting their last
36:52
minute and panicking and putting out a show that wasn't as good
36:55
as it should have been. Yeah, Yeah.
36:59
Are you going to be anywhere closer to here in the next?
37:02
You've probably sold out that this.
37:03
I've sold out Oxford. My next beer, my next local gig
37:07
is I do a charity gig every year for the Helen and Douglas House.
37:11
We do a big fundraiser for them at the New Theatre in Oxford and
37:14
that is on the 9th of March 2026.
37:16
So it'll be me hosting with a load of other comedians on and
37:19
all the proceeds go to Helen and Douglas.
37:22
OK, yeah, I've I've so I've seen that one last year, but then I
37:25
was too late and I couldn't. It's all right.
37:27
So yeah, come next time. It's really, it's a brilliant
37:29
night. Everyone gives up their time for
37:31
free. The comedians like it's a great
37:32
evening. Yeah, and you know everyone
37:36
because this will be released in January.
37:38
So, people. Yeah, fantastic.
37:40
Please do. If you, I imagine you've got a
37:42
few local audience members, please do.
37:43
Come on. Yes, I do.
37:45
Yeah. OK.
37:47
So now focusing on more of you as a person without, you know,
37:52
disregarding being a sibling to Alex and, you know, being ADHD,
37:58
who is your biggest support on your journey?
38:01
Oh, mum, definitely mum. Like she's, she's been great.
38:05
Like I remember, you know, even when I started doing stand up
38:08
and I was 18 when I did my first gigs.
38:10
And then you enter, there's like big comedy competitions when
38:13
you're new and I got to the finals of one of the really big
38:15
ones and, and basically, you know, it was about, I was the
38:20
first person in my family to ever go to university.
38:22
I'm the only person who's ever been to university.
38:25
And I was, it was going well and there was momentum.
38:28
And my mum was the one that went, go and do it.
38:32
Like don't, don't think you have to do uni and you'll regret it.
38:36
Go and take the risk and you can always go back.
38:39
But you, you need to live. I remember her telling me she
38:41
goes, there's nothing worse than being on your deathbed thinking
38:44
what if? So go and do it.
38:47
And like, that was amazing. And then when I started doing
38:49
it, you know, my dad was brilliant because, you know, I
38:52
used to go out gigging, but he said to me, you need to treat it
38:55
like a job. So you gig five nights a week.
38:57
And then because he worked from home a lot, I went OK.
39:00
And he went, what I'll do is you get up in the morning once
39:02
you've had eight hours sleep, you're up and you're doing
39:04
emails or you're writing. And he was really on me and like
39:06
made me gig loads. And then I was, I've been really
39:09
well known for years for like my work ethic on the circuit.
39:11
I do so many shows and that was them going OK, do it, but let's
39:16
do it properly. And that was really good for me
39:18
and they were my biggest supporters when it came to that.
39:20
Without both of them saying those things, I think I would
39:22
never have been here. Yeah, yeah, our parents are very
39:26
important. Yeah, totally.
39:28
And also, Can you imagine like your child turns up and goes,
39:31
oh, I'm going to drop out of university to be a stand up
39:33
comedian. And because you know, when you
39:35
start doing startup, loads of people do open mic nights and
39:37
things, you know, of that. It's a, it's a very steep
39:39
pyramid where the people who start versus the people who,
39:42
where I am now, it's like 1 in 1000, you know, like the chances
39:46
aren't good you're going to do it for a living.
39:48
So the fact they were so supportive of such a left field
39:51
choice really shows the kind of parents they are.
39:53
I think it's easy to be supportive when your son wants
39:55
to be a lawyer. Yes.
39:58
When your son goes, I'm just going to drive up and down the
40:00
country getting £20 a night maybe to begin with to see if
40:04
this goes anywhere. It's a really hard thing to go.
40:06
Yeah, we're behind you. And they and they never, ever
40:10
questioned it. Yeah, you start thinking about
40:13
the uncertainty and. And even now my dad stresses,
40:17
Yeah. And I'm self-employed, right?
40:19
Like, you know, like, you know, there's times where, and it's
40:21
not a linear career. So there's been times where I've
40:23
been really busy and then not quite as busy and then busy
40:25
again. So they still worry about me.
40:27
Like my mum often tells people, she goes, we worry more about
40:29
Matthew than Alex. She goes.
40:33
We worry far more about him. Yeah, because sadly arts yeah,
40:38
it's a nightmare yeah I I could be podcasting, only podcasting I
40:44
wouldn't mind, but you know, sadly it's.
40:46
Really hard. Podcasting is a very big market
40:48
now. It's really I've got a podcast,
40:50
I don't make any money off mine. It's a nightmare.
40:52
Yeah, it's the same same here. This is all for the community
40:55
and yeah, it's it's amazing. It doesn't feel like work, but
40:59
yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't give you a living and
41:02
it doesn't pay your. Money.
41:03
Yeah, exactly. Sure.
41:04
Yeah. OK.
41:06
So and what do you do to treat yourself with regards to your
41:11
well-being? Any activities?
41:15
Well, look, The thing is my hobby, my what was my hobby is
41:18
my job. So I love doing that.
41:19
I love, I love a holiday. Like I do like going away.
41:23
I also, I like, I don't know, like I'm, I'm quite simple
41:28
really. Like I love sitting in and
41:29
watching 6 hours of television just to like decompress things
41:33
like that. Like I'm not, I'm not hard to
41:35
keep happy really. Like I'm very, very easy.
41:38
Even with the travel, sometimes because I'm away so much with
41:40
work, sometimes I just can't wait for four days sat in my
41:43
living room doing nothing and then being asked to do all the
41:47
jobs that I've not done. Yeah, I bet.
41:50
Yeah. And who is your biggest
41:54
aspiration? Oh gosh, Alex always like I look
42:00
at that boy and you know, he's had a very supportive life with
42:04
mum and dad and you know, the family and all of our friends
42:07
and everything. But life has thrown him some
42:10
curveballs and he gets up from them so quickly.
42:13
You know, he's had some difficulties at jobs.
42:15
He's had all sorts of things happen.
42:17
You know, even when he was younger with school and things,
42:20
it was hard. Like school was really difficult
42:21
for him and he never ever stopped trying.
42:25
Like that boy is a freight train.
42:27
Like you cannot stop him, especially when he's got his
42:29
mindset to something that is happening.
42:33
Yeah. And I think that is incredibly
42:34
inspirational. Definitely I I am one of his
42:38
number one fans. Yeah, absolutely.
42:40
Same. Yeah.
42:43
And I don't know if you're into Marvel or DC, but if you were a
42:47
superhero or had a superpower, what would that be and how?
42:50
Teleportation. I would teleport.
42:52
That would be my superpower. I drive 35,000 miles a year.
42:56
I, I I'm in the car all the time.
42:58
All I want to do is get there straight away.
43:00
I'm very impatient. That is an ADHD thing.
43:02
If I could teleport everywhere, life would be perfect.
43:05
Yeah. And can you think of a way to
43:09
make the world a better place? How you would use the power to
43:12
make the world a better place for.
43:14
I mean, do people do that? I, I, I realized that my power
43:16
was entirely selfish. Like, do people go, well, I
43:20
would be Superman because I could help other people and I've
43:22
gone, I want to get places very quickly.
43:25
Yeah, that doesn't bode well, does it for me.
43:29
Actually, I think, I think Alex said Superman and your mom said
43:36
Christopher Reeve. Oh yeah, I, I listened to her
43:39
podcast. Hers was a very inspirational.
43:41
No, I don't care about. I just want to help myself get
43:43
to places because I'm terrible at being late.
43:45
So it'd improve other people's lives because I'd be on time.
43:48
How about that? Fair.
43:51
Enough. Yeah.
43:51
Look, they're both very lovely and selfless.
43:53
I am the self obsessed, you know, I'm not a narcissist, but
43:57
there are traits. And you mentioned music that it
44:04
was one of your common interests with with Alex.
44:09
If you were to choose, this might be a difficult one
44:11
because, yeah, it's quite difficult to choose only one
44:14
song. But if there is one song that
44:16
kind of resonates with your life or your your journey, what would
44:22
that be? It's very difficult, isn't it?
44:24
I think, I don't know, really, like I don't think because my
44:28
life has been so varied and different, you know, over the
44:31
years, like there's been so many weird things and it's been very
44:33
unusual. We'll go for some Green Day
44:36
because that's what Alex and I like to go, the basket case that
44:39
will suit me like because I am a bit of a basket case, I think.
44:43
I don't know that one. I need to know it.
44:45
Yeah, yeah. It's just not clicking.
44:47
It's about being all over the place.
44:49
So that's about right. OK.
44:51
Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah.
44:52
It's about right for me. And if you had the chance to go
44:56
back in time, what would you tell little Matt?
45:00
Oh, make more jokes in class. Don't listen to the teachers
45:03
every time they tell you that. If that won't get you a job, it
45:05
will, and you'll have a lovely time.
45:09
Make more. Make more rude jokes in class,
45:11
because one day that'll get you flown around the world.
45:13
First class. Enjoy yourself, kid.
45:15
Get better, yeah. Yeah.
45:17
No, I'd go back. I don't think I'd tell myself
45:19
anything. You know, there was never
45:20
anything I needed to ever be told, you know, like I was
45:24
always told the right things by the people around me.
45:26
So I don't think I'd, you know, lots of people do need to go
45:29
back to their younger selves and say you need to do this or that
45:31
and you will be OK. I always felt like I would be
45:34
OK. There was never a doubt in my
45:35
mind that life would be fine because of the support of my
45:38
family. Yeah, yeah.
45:41
And that's that. That's amazing.
45:42
Maybe stop singing Phantom of the Opera in the playground.
45:45
That is annoying. That's what I'd say to him,
45:49
yeah. That sounds like the right
45:51
thing. That was a bit weird.
45:53
People thought that people did not like you for that.
45:58
And finally, if your heart had a voice, what would they tell us?
46:03
If who, sorry. Your heart.
46:05
My heart had a voice. What would it tell us?
46:08
Oh my gosh, I don't know, really.
46:11
That's a really good. That's a really hard question,
46:15
but it would tell us that everything is great.
46:16
Like I am a very happy, like sort of content person and
46:20
that's coming from my heart. Yeah, it's a very positive way
46:28
to to end to end the interview. So yeah.
46:31
Thank you very much. You're very welcome.
46:34
We need more positivity. Yeah, absolutely.
46:36
I'm very glass half full. Yeah, Yeah, great.
46:40
Well, Matt, it has been a great pleasure to to interview you and
46:44
to finally meet you. Lovely.
46:45
To meet you, yeah. Yeah, and we'll definitely stay
46:48
in touch. And please, yeah, good luck with
46:51
the tour. Thank you.
46:52
See you at the show soon. Yes, I'll see you at the show
46:55
soon. Lovely.
46:56
Thank you very much. Thanks.
47:16
Thank you for listening or watching the Neuro Diverse
47:20
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47:22
resonated with you, please know that you are not alone.
47:28
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47:32
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47:40
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only met one neuro divergent person.
48:10
Until next time, take care, bye.