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CLASSIC: Ancient Mayan Ritual Alcohol Enemas · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, man, do you remember, uh, not too long ago,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: but chugging when we learned the concept of boofy.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Sorry, now I'm thinking of that story about the frat
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: guys that had to like get up and do a
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: press commerce with their lawyers or they talked about the
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: practice of butt hugging and the lawyer said it multiple.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Times, yes, yes, yes, yes, and the kids, the kids
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: acted in this thing that they have called butt chugging.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Pause before he paused time really popped it, yeah, denying
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: it on the behalf of his clients. But this is
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: not something that frat boys invented. In fact, it's it's
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: dates back much much further than that into antiquity. Uh.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: The ancient Mayans, in fact, were big fans of squirting
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: alcohol up their uh their butts.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, not to put too fine a cheek on it,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: but uh, it's weird.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Because we were.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Writing the description for this episode back in twenty eighteen,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I remember thinking, all right, we have to set out
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: at the beginning that civilizations throughout Mesoamerica have vast and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: rich history far before Europeans were messing with them. A
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: lot of complex spiritual beliefs, ceremonies, a lot of stuff right,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: very old, very storied civilizations.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: And you're right.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: One of the common practices in ancient Maya culture in particular,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: was a ritual involving alcohol enemas.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Let's check it out, y'all, let's chuck it out, Oh boy.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. A tiny bit
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: of trivia to begin today's episode, Friends and neighbors, fellow
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. Once upon a time, I Ben Bollen lived
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: in Guatemala.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Ben, you always play your tales of adventure in Guatemala
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: very close to the vest I'm hoping today that will change.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: My name is Nol, and this is ridiculous History. Why
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: are we talking about Guatemala? Ben?
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked, Nol. We're talking about Guatemala
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: today because it leads us into a very strange topic,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: one that we think that you might rightly call ridiculous.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Our super producer Casey Pegram certainly did off air earlier.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: He chuckled, yeah, which we took as very high praise.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So when I was living in Guatemala, one of the
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: things that constantly astounded me was the wealth of ancient
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: culture there, especially as you go up into the northern
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: part of the country Patan. Then you will see all
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: these amazing ruins that have stood the test of time
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: pretty well and are currently protected by the government, which
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: is a good thing. And it inspired in me this
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: interest in Mayan culture, meso American culture, but Maya in particular.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: And the reason I was so inspired by this is
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: because I was living in a town called Jela ke
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Taltenango and there's still a lot of my influence there.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I remember learning Spanish well enough to get by in
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the day, and then people would switch to Kicha, the
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: other language they spoke.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I did not know that that was a thing until
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: we started researching this topic today. Should we let the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: cat of the bag.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: We can let it roll around just the second more
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: because I want to make sure people know that we
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: are being respectful with this. It's a very different thing
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: for both of us. Okay, Ben, you're really doubling down
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: on this. It's just I think it's just one sentence
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: we needed to say it. There is such a wealth
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: of cultural practice, a lot of which might seem strange
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: to many of us in the modern day, and recently
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: knowl with the help of our pow Christopher hasiotis we
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: discovered a ritual that we had never heard of, right,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I mean you hadn't heard of this in this context.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I had not heard of it in this context. What
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I would like you to do, Ben, is give me
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: a list of three, because, as we decided, a list
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: must be three minimum. Well that's the bare bones. The
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: barrier of entry to a list there we go is three.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So give me three cultural oddities that you found in
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: your time in Guatemala, ending with the one that is
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: today's episode that you only found out about just recently.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, yes, I'll play these reindeer games. So one people
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: wouldn't snap their fingers the way that you and I do.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Like that.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: What you do is, and imagine this with us listeners,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you take your thumb and your middle finger and you
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: put them together so the fingertips touch, and then you
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: shake your hand. I can do it with my left hand,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: and you make a snapping noise.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: It's tough.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: You make a snapping noise with your pointer finger against
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: your middle finger.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: That sounds like that would wear out your wrist.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. I still never quite mastered the trick too.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: And this is one of my favorite things all those
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: old bluebird school buses that you know, fairy kids back
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and forth to school in the States. When they are retired,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: they move outside of the United States down south and
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: they become what are known as chicken busses, and they're
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: a mode of transit. If you get a second look
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: them up on Google. They're amazing. You would love these
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: in particular and all they have a lot of psychedelic colors.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: There are these amazing mods and the drivers will take
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: these things anywhere around Volcano.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: It was sort of like a crazy, grateful dead bus.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: And of course number three NL that we just found
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: out about, I'm gonna give the honor.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: To you, my friend. Yeah, I don't know. This is
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: sort of a hollow setup that I have been envisioned,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: but I mainly just wanted to hear some of the
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: trivia that you had from your time. Then we'll get
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: into more of that. The third one in the topic
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: of the day's episode is that back in the days
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: of these Mesoamerican indigenous tribes, the Maya, the Inca of
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the Aztec, the tull Tech, the Olmec. We'll get into
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: more of those, there was a pretty heavy focus on
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: getting utterly smashed on everything from fermented plants to psychedelic mushrooms,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: all in the service of opening up your mind to
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: the spirit world in kind of a shamanistic way. Yeah.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: But the one that we didn't really know about this
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: is all kind of on the nose, is that they
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: did this thing where they gave themselves and potentially each
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: other ritualistic alcohol anemas.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: That is true. We will restate this so that you
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: know you are not mishearing this thing. It's not a
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Freudian slip of your ear. Ritual alcohol animals, ritualistic alcohol anemas.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Because you see, when you are exploring the material crafts
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: left behind by the civilization, you will see a lot
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: of depictions on the pottery right or on the walls
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: of people doing various things, stories from the mythology of
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the time, as well as daily life commemorations of the
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: lives of noted figures glyphs, right, yeah, glyphs. And you'll
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: also see a ton of what are definitively believed to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: be anima scenes like you just described nol and they're
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: on the Mayan pottery. Experts agree that these undoubtedly re
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: present like these are not metaphors they undoubtedly represent a
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: literal activity, and for a while this was controversial because
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: it's sort of it's sort of undermined the image that
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of people had of the minds as a
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: very contemplative, philosophical people. Stoic, Yeah, even stoic. They couldn't
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: they couldn't quite square that with the idea of indulging
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: in ritual acts of ecstasy. There were also displays of
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: characters vomiting.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: That's right been In an article called Blood Water, Vomit
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: and Wine, author Lucia Henderson discusses the importance of these
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: various fermented drinks that were used in some of these ceremonies,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: one of them being something called polkway.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, polk way, and you can find this article online
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: in the meso American Voices Journal. Polkway is an alcoholic
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: beverage that is made by fermenting the sap of agave plant,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: specifically a magwa not magway, be careful, not a Gremlins reference,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: m a g u e y. And you may be
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: familiar with a gave being used in other alcoholic beverages
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: right even in the modern day, So we know that
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: this was widespread in many different forms it's almost more
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: of an umbrella term at times. But Noel, could you
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about polke and what it
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: is and what's in it? I know honey is associated
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so polk. It was actually also called achtli in Nahuatl,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: which is the Aztec language. And it's, like you said,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: made from the sap of this plant, but they actually
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: have to cut into the heart of the plant, which
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: is the part that you I believe the word was magwa, Yeah, exactly.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: But the thing is it actually has pretty low alcohol content,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: ranging from two to eight percent. According to an article Tequila,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Mezcal and Pulque by Suzanne Barbezot from Trip Savvy, it's
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: got a really good rundown of the differences because they
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: are all made from agave. But the difference with polk
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: is that it's made from that heart, kind of like
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: a heart of palm or like an artichoke hart or something.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: But it's a pretty low alcohol content, So it kind
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of makes sense maybe that in order to get wasted
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: on it enough to open your mind up to this
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: kind of other dimension, you might need to absorb it
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: a little quicker. That's right.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: The drink had its own goddess. It was very common
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: in the culture. It featured in tales of Mesoamerican mythology.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And as you said, no, it was drunk in moderation
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: on a daily basis. But for these important religious festivals,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: you know, weddings, fertility rites, ceremonies of that nature, it
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: has served in more copious amounts. And to really get
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the bang for their buck, they administered it directly directly.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: And we're you know, we're adults. We can say directly
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: without giggling.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, we can at least make a game out
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: of not giggling and looking each other directly in the eyes.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: What we say directly. I'm good, I'm golden, good, great, great,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: how are you?
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I'm great. Let's go on.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Let's move on with So how did they administer this?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: You talked about finding those artifacts, right, the clay potts
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: and all of that. Another type of artifact that they found,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and a lot of this is coming from a study,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: by the way, from the journal Neurologia called Hallucinogenic Drugs
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: and Pre Columbian meso American Cultures by FJ. Coro ar
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Tall and one of the bits of evidence outside of
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: the depictions of these ritual enemas on these pieces of
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: pottery were the actual implements used to shoot that stuff
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: up there. They were syringes. This stuff was administered with
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: syringes made from gourds and clay. And if you look
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: at one of the figures in the study, there is
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a depiction of one of these mind ritual enemas, and
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: it's a gentleman laying what do you call it, legs
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: of kimbo I guess, sort of reclining and displayed there
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: you go. And then you got a priest or some
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: kind of He seems to be wearing a different garb
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and he is reaching down at him with this thing
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: that looks kind of like a loot, but it's actually
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: clearly a gourd, and it's got you know, the big
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: bull at the bottom was obviously full of polka or.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Any of the other similar related.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Beverages exactly of the of the region. And it looks
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: like he's getting ready to to give give give him
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: a good squirt.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah he's gonna have a rager, right.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Well, apparently so, and we we need to backtrack just
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: to touch We sort of started the episode off by
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: saying that a lot of this was done in service
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: of getting into a trance like state, because the purpose
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: was to achieve in enlighten We talked about this cultures
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: as being these meso American cultures are being perceived as
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: more stoic, and this doesn't necessarily entirely fly in the
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: face of that, because they're not doing this just around
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: their daily going is on. This is all in these
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: We call it ritualistic for a reason. It was to
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: open up their minds to achieve this enlightenment, get into
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: a state of ecstasy and almost like an inner peace,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: and to potentially achieve hallucinations in sort of a vision
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: questy way and being able to commune with the gods.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the idea. It's removing some of the barriers
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: of perception that would exist in normal day to day life.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: So what we're emphasizing here is that when people were
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: doing it, it wasn't to just party party without some
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: sort of larger plan here. We also, in addition to
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the tools the implements that you mentioned, all the gords
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and syringes, we also found these thin hollow bones. We
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: know that there was a practice in some similar cultures
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: where shamans would use a deer bladder and maybe a
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: hollowed out femur bone to pump a substance through the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: rectum into the body. And there were some although you
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: know this thing is rife for some crass humor, there
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: were some definite medical advantages. It doesn't touch your stomach.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: It doesn't touch your stomach, and it doesn't touch your liver. Yes,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: and the anus is full of very sensitive vascular tissue
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: that is highly highly absorptive. Yeah. Yeah, And since there's
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: another point with the liver thing, that's really important and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought this up. The liver would
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: break down hallucinogenic elements. So administering these substances this way,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to your point, gives you much more bang for your
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: buck anebriation or hallucination wise.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's true. And I wonder if the location
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: of injection was less important than just the fact that
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: it was a more efficient way of achieving that state,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: especially with alcohol that was relatively lower in potency. We
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: actually skipped the earliest form of this of intoxicating liquors
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: that they use. It was something called bal ja that's
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: made by infusing the bark, some sort of broken down
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: version of the bark from a tree called the longcocarpus
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: longest stylus, and then they mix that with honey, this
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: particular kind of honey that's made by bees that have
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: fed on a morning glory derivative that is very high
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: in something called ergine, which is very closely related to
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: little something called lsd our guide is lysergic acid amide,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: and it also can be lysergic acid lysergamide. So I
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: think it's a very close molecular connection between that and
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: lysergic acid diethylamide, which is the mass that we know
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: about from the you know, from the grateful dead buses
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: earlier in the.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Is or from fish earlier in Vermont.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: It's true. But here's the thing. They would, you know,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of times when they were doing these ritual enemas,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: they would add other psychedelic substances, psychotropic substances and mix
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: them into kind of a cocktail. And then that's how
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: they would achieve the heights of openness.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Tobacco, for instance, water lilies, those all went in there.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And you know the thing about pulk specifically is that
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: it had an extremely short shelf life, so these other
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: alternatives could exist concurrently, but they were when we talked
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: about these ritual enemas. Whatever the substance was and whatever
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the specific cocktail mix was, it had the same goal,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: which was again to achieve this enlightenment. And I don't
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: know about you, Nol, but I was startled by how
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: much research had been conducted on this. You know, it
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: hit me when I was thinking back on search history
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and whatever Big Brother would see us looking through that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: for some time, my search history will be riddled with
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: things like Brian Strauss and Justin Carer's nineteen ninety article
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: notes on the Mayan vision quest by enema, and then
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: of course blood water, vomit, and wine. We found a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: comprehensive breakdown to your point about the specific ingredients in
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: these enemas. We found a comprehensive breakdown of it by
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: a guy named Peter agm De smet ritual enemas and
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: snuffs in the America.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Snuffs being things you would insulfate like cocaine, for example,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: or any number of powders that could be ground down
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: from plant matter, and rather than ingesting it orally, you
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: sniff it up your nose.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you know what I'd like to make
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: insulfate our word of the day.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: It's a peewee thing. Did do we mention the fact
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: that this has been going on as far back as
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: twelve hundred to four hundred BCE with the Olmec people.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: We have not, And it's important that we do, because
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: we mentioned the phrase polke and the phrase mague being
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: in bulk and bulke being thrown around, but we didn't
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: mention the actual earliest instances of this practice. And I
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: believe you are I believe you are correct.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So it is the old mac. Here's a good detail too,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: because the alcohol content and these substances were so low,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: they would inject them rectally and it would often they
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: would get so intoxicated that they would vomit. And there
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: was part of the ritual, particular ritual, where their vomit
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: would be collected in bags that would then be hung
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: around their necks.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: And this was a way also of publicly displaying your
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: completion of or participation in this ritual. And in the
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: article that straws and care work done, they gave us
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit of background as far as the transportation
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of this stuff goes. Here's a quotation the anema substance
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: they say may have been transported in liquid form. Given
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the large size of these jars. They had specific enema jars, right,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you can see those, and those are things that bear
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of these decoration exact cliffs, so they continue.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: It's difficult to think of why this would be the
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: case unless some of the ingredients included fermentation based alcohol.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: It's conceivable the heavy jar was transported empty of liquid
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and the material were mixed with liquid on the spot.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: But unless a large quantity was used at a time,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the reason for carrying such a jar is rather a mystery.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I love when people use rather that way. I'm gonna
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: start bringing that back. Oh you should do you have
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: my back on that one?
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I have your back on everything, Ben, thanks man.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Likewise, so we know that they had these specific jars,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: we know the things that were decorated on them, and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: we know that they had specific recurring characters, which I
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: think is so cool. I'm just a big world building
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: nerd in that regard.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: And when we talk about characters too, they actually had
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: these terra cotta figures that demonstrated the proper procedure for
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of another way of saying administering
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: these butt fluids.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so we see some common themes. Noel, you
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: described the priest administering something to a supplicant or the receiver.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess priest is maybe too broad a term,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: something of a shaman who is trying to guide this process.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing. What were these rituals about. They
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: were often things like about healing rituals where and I
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: just want to point out too that it was most
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: important for the leader of these rituals, the shaman, to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: be as open as possible to this spirit, realm or
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: they have you. But he would also administer to the supplicants,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: you know, the participants in the ritual you mentioned earlier.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I think marriage rituals, we're talking about fertility rights, I
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: think you said. And the healing wherein someone maybe was
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: ill or dying and did in some way and this
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: would be a way to exercise that in some way
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: and hopefully to promote healing, even though there's no real
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: medical efficacy here.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: We'll get to that in a second.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: Two.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: We can see some of these rituals where we can
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: glean some of the purposes behind them by again looking
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: at the glyphs, the decorations in the art surrounding these
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: jars because they have these recurring participants. There's water lily Jaguar.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: This is a character who's frequently seen in Nima jug
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: scenes for the Anima ritual. He has a turbin bib.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: You'll see him involved in enemas that are associated with
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: sacrificial rights. Interesting you'll see other characters like spider Monkey,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: who is also common in Anema jug scenes. And then
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: you'll see things like drug bird. That's the name. Drug
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Bird is distinguished by a beak with the fat outturned end.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: It doesn't look like any real bird, but it's present
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: in at least four Anima scenes that are on these jugs.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: You have other characters like big lipped frogs and often
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: holding a water lily or something that would be representative
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: of ingredients in a particular type of cocktail.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: And then when we start getting into some of the
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: other substances they would imbibe, like psychedelic mushrooms. They even
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: had a the Mixtech people had a god called seven
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Flowers who is shown holding two mushrooms in each of
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: his hands. But you know who didn't like.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: This behavior, Ben oh gosh Tell me, who on earth
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: would have a problem with this.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: It was the priests, the Catholic prief. Yeah, the first one,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Diego de Landa. He gave this account of experiencing some
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: of this stuff. He said, the Indians consumed which always
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: think it's funny because these are the use of Indian
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: to refer to Mayan people and Aztec people. Right, it's
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: kind of a it's kind of a misnomer, isn't it.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's it's lazy naming. The idea was, uh,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you know, the the name comes from this kakamamie idea
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that they had landed in the Indian continent.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, speaking of witch, you just posted a really great
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: uh Mitchell and Webb look sketch on the Ridiculous History's
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Facebook page that addresses that very thing. But anyway, here's
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: the quote from Diego. He says, the Indians consumed alcohol
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and drugs and immense quantities, which gave rise to many evils,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: including murders. They made wine from honey water and the
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: root of a certain tree. This is describing that bulk
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: that they grew just for that purpose. The wine had
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: a very strong flavor and a putrid odor, not a
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: fan of these rituals. And then, of course you know
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: their goal was to turn them all into good to
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: good Catholics anyway, So any of these what they would
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: have seen as barbaric kind of rituals probably rubbed them
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: the wrong way, with or without the booze.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's not forget this idea of proselytization. On
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: their end was entirely by hook or by crook. The
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: ends justify the means. So we could imagine a bit
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: we can speculate on how the Spanish forces would have
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: reacted to this. Now, the idea of an enema in
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: in general would not have been completely foreign to them.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: It is, as they say in The Beauty and the Beast,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: a tale as old as time, right.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, animas are good for like
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: one thing, which is uh.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, enemas. Over the span of human civilizations, here's a
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: sentence I didn't think I would say today. Over the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: span of human civilization, animas have been used for numerous
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: real or purported medical benefits. They've been used for a
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: bowel management. They've also been used, you know, to relieve constantpation.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: That's the one, Yeah, that's the one that I think
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: is actually accurate that it can help you with well.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: They can also be used to administer other substances directly
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: into the bloodstream.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Of course, right as we know from our pals the minds.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Right, or you know from your local veterinarian, they may
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: recommend that you give someone a suppository or a pet
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: a subpository.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I guess, so, I guess I think of those as
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: being sort of two different sides of the same butt coin.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Because enemas would be liquid, they don't have to be
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: there's smoke inemas.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: That's very true, Ben, you are really opening my third eye.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Oh boy.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, we are a family show here. One thing that
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: was very interesting to both of us when we started
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: exploring this stuff is that there is an entire culture,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: so multiple cultures associated with again the real or perceived
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: effects of enemas in a palliative or medical sense.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and if you want to deep dive into this,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I highly recommend checking out our sister podcast Stuff you
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Missed History Classes episode on a fellow by the name
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: of John Harvey Kellogg. But let's give you the broad strokes.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, John Harvey Kellogg was nowadays best known as a
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: serial visionary, right he made Kellogg cornflakes.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: A serial visionary like he may had many visions in
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: success in quick succession. I hope so, Yeah, I hope so.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: But he also, you know, came up with what's today
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: still a very popular breakfast item, Yeah, the corn flake.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: And in his non cereal tycoon life, he had very
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: particular and nowadays very strange seeming medical beliefs. Cereal was
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: a side effect of I guess an added value right
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to his primary goal, which was improving people's health and
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: stopping them from masturbating. Yes, just like the Graham Cracker inventor. Yeah,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: he saw masturbation as a moral danger and a medical problem.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: He was a Seventh Day Adventist and a staunch vegetarian
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: and health nut.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a huge proponent of enemas you can read.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: You could read a great article about this on the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Washington Post by Rebeccah Fowler. This is one of my
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: favorite titles, although all the authors were citing here and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: knocking it out with the titles today, an Enema of
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the People NOL.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: That was what Harvey Kellogg was after, just and that
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a Blink one eighty two album. It's an enema of
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: the state of the state. And that's been Casey on
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: the case.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And Kellogg himself practiced what he preached. He preached the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: health benefits of enemas. He also administered multiple enemas a
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: day to himself.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Sure, like you do, like you do.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And the more you dive into this, and yeah, we
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: do recommend the myst and History class episode. The more
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: you dive into it, the more we see that while
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: he had these very hardline health health based principles like
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: no smoking, for instance, he really really really doubled down
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: on enemas. Yogurt enemas.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: That was a big thing.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: This is messy. It seems like, you know what, never
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: tried it, but it does seem really messy.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll take my yogurt orally, thank you very much.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing. A lot of this was kind
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: of considered to the now when we look at it
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: through the lens of science, of modern science, to be
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: kind of quackery or at least I don't know what
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: do you call it when you've got kind of a pseudoscience, right,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: but it persists to this day. Right, there are people
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: who swear up and down that coffee enemas are the thing, right, right,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And speaking of things you never thought you'd read in
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: your web browser for a work related adventure, I found
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: an article called Anema history in the Mind culture that
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: was sort of a travelogue of a gentleman who visited
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: some of these areas with these ruins to investigate the
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: history of what we've been talking about today. And it
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: starts thus in twenty ten, I visited Guatemala in order
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: to responsibly cultivate my relationship with the fairly traded and
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: coffee that I sell for my colon cleansed clients to
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: use for their coffee enemas at home. And then there's
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: a very helpful link to his fairly traded Anima coffee.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: And it's very it's it's it's certified organic, it's low acidity,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: it's air roasted, and it's hiring caffeine and palmitic acid,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: and of course fairly traded. But this gentleman just is
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: a real proponent of this remedy and it's it's a thing.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a picking up steam a little bit.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: And this particular type of a cleanse is part of
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: something called the Gerson therapy that was developed in the
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirties. But the FDA has consistently come out against
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: cleanses of any kind, saying that the science just isn't there,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: and then enemas are really only good for that one
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: thing we talked about earlier, which was you know, curing
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: constipation as as God intended, or you know, for shooting
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: alcohol up your butt and making you incredibly intoxicated so
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: you can you know, talk to the spirits.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Or in some cases medicine to help you. That would happen, right.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Also true, I still think that's different. That's just a
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: rectal administration of you know what that's you know, alcohol
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: is not like it's not water. You're shooting it up
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: there just to get the effects of it. It's not
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: like you're not using it as a cleanse.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you know. The thing that I think fascinates
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: both of us is not just how widespread this practice
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: has been, but the fact that it continues today. Unlike
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: several other traditional practices in Mesoamerica, this practice survived colonialism
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: and some tribes still practice it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And additionally here even we record in the United States,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: as you know, a long time listeners here, it is
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: also a popular thing, but under a different name.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Man, do we get to say it now?
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, you have waited long enough.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: But jugging, you say it, you say it right.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it in a in a posh British voice,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: but chugging.
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: But no, And that just sounds like you're saying, but
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: chugging is not good for you. You should drink more
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: gentlemanly like and slower at a rit a medium pace.
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: I need you to say, but chugging.
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: I feel like that's your voice.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: How about Okay, you don't have to say it in
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: that voice. I just want you to really lean into it,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: a rowdy bottom chug. Okay, that's good, that's fine, that's great.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: You're talking about it a man. If you do, you
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I'll do. Obviously am more excited about butt chugging than
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: you are, and that's fine. We're two different people. We
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: can have our own feels about things.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: So butt chugging, essentially is is administering alcohol directly without
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: the purpose of pursuing some great spiritual revelation or epiphany.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: It's recreational. Yeah, there was a there was a case
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: back in oh when was it? I was in fourteen, that'stent.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: She was a little earlier than that twenty fourteen when
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: it was when the fallout kind of went down. It
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: was in twenty twelve where a fraternity at the University
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: of Tennessee, the Pi Kappa Alpha chapter, had got into
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: a little hot water when an underage student named Alexander P.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Broughton went to the hospital after a real rager, as
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: they say, with an alcohol blood alcohol level of point
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: four to oh, which is.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Five times the legal limit and in what doctors call
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the death zone for alcohol was the zone.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And they examined him and decided that he had
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: been penetrated in some way. They said there was signs
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: of sexual assaults. And it came out that the investigators believed,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: rather than him having been sexually assaulted in some way,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: that he had this alcohol administered erectally right with a
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: length of hose. Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: And there's a misconception amongst many people, or there was
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: at the time, that inserting alcohol into any other orifice
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: would reduce the chances of vomiting from a hangover or
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, seems off.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: It's misinformed at the very least, and the experts have
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: labeled this activity extremely dangerous because think about it, you know,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: if first off. If this is being done to someone
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: as another ritual, like a fraternity hazing ritual or something,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, then safety is not prioritized near as much
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: as it should be.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not. Man. Whenever I have you been to a
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: fraternity party before? Yeah, yeah, I've only been to one,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: and it was well after I had graduated from college.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: And I have to say I was shocked, Ben, I
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: was shocked. I mean, I just thought there was like
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: a like a very slight, twenty two to twenty three
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: year old girl in a devil costume walking around pounding
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: a handle, mind you, a vue all by herself, like
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: that was her beverage for the night. I was, you know,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I like a good, a stiff drink, sure as much
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: as the rest of them. But I was taken aback.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing with the story about from ut. Yeah,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: it turned out that it was very important to the
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: father of this young man and the fraternity and their
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: lawyers to make it very clear that no butt chugging
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: took place. In fact, there is a delightful clip you
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: can find. We're not going to play it here. You
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: can see that if you want, where their lawyer says
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: the phrase butt chugging no less than fifteen times in
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: this press conference, and it is is a hoot, he
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: claimed the boy that he was participating in a party
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: called the Tour of Franzia, because when they went back
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: to investigate the scene, they found like those wine box
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: bags if you open up the box of wine, sometimes
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a space bag. They found the littered everywhere and a
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: lot of passed out fraternity brothers there. And the Tour
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: of Frenzias, I guess where you just drink bad white
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: zinfandel until you black out.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Sounds like a very niche audience. Here are a very
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: niche party. But despite the hilarious name of butt chugging,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: the dangers and effects of this are very real.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: Like you really owned it when you said at that time, Ben.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny about this nol is we hope
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: everyone has enjoyed learning about these ritualistic practices that, maybe
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: with different aims, continue today in the modern world. But
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, man, I am I'm a little
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: at odds about how best to end this, because it's
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: lovely when we end on questions so we can hear
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: from you friends and neighbors. But I think we should
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: be careful what questions we ask on this one.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I think we should do it. I would like to
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: do a little PSA here and say, kids, don't put
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: alcohol in your butt. No, just don't do it. Don't
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: do it. Just don't do it. Don't do it. They're
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: not worth it.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: There are better things you can do.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: You can reach the spirit realm naturally.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: You can meditate, exercise, yeah, you can climate tree, yeah,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: climate tree. You know what, Go look at the stars.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: They're beautiful this time of year, they're beautiful.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: All the time. And on that note, oh no, you
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: know what it is.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: It's been so long.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: I didn't think it was ever going to happen again.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: It's always going to happen.
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: It's time, gentlemen.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland the quizt you've returned yet again to be
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: deevil Us with fact and.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Fiction, and you're in top wickedly gleeful form.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: My friend, I mean my bitter enemy.
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: Yes, flattery, you will get your No.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: So this is again there's a surprise to us, as
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: it always seems to be when we're about to end
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the episode. This is the part of Ridiculous history where
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: in our long standing nemesis Jonathan Strickland. The quister returns
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: to give us a fact, and Nolan and I must
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: determine whether it is true or it is false.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: We have three.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Minutes, yes, and that that timer on this gigantic grandfather
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: clock behind us does not start until after you have
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: stated the plane.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: It's more of a great grandfather clock, isn't it.
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: And we should point out that I also always give
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: you an arbitrary rule you must follow, yes every time.
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: This time, because we are talking about alcohol, I got
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: your nice, a nice adult beverage. So before any question
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: you must pop that open, take us wig and then
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: say I got I got one for you Quist.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: And just to you, have you had a few? You
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: sound a little define a few?
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: The word the euphemism I've always liked to use is charming.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: No I think Noel saying you sound a bit.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Charming, no Quist is nothing if not charming.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: That's true.
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: I'm so charming. The room is spinning right now.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I hope that you administer this alcohol
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: orally well you know that is young.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: It's fair sure, so we uh, we will have to
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: pop the first time we asked something, and then after
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: that just.
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: Sidright, assuming that you have to ask anything at all.
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: You may you may feel very confident to not have
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: to ask any questions.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: And just to point out to the listeners at home,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: it is approaching five, so I think it's it's perfectly.
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: Appropriated arms somewhere.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: Indeed, all right, let's do this.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I knock it out.
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: Here's your scenario, and guess what what, it's a long one.
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: Here we go.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Since nineteen sixty three, every.
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: Year on January fifteenth, in Nozawa, Onsen, Japan, there is
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: an interesting sake fueled ritual that pits villagers against each other,
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: all in the name of the Shinto religion. All men
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: who are either twenty five or forty two years old
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: are conscripted to guard a wooden shrine constructed just for
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: the event. The men are encouraged to drink sake, a
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: lot of it, like half a gallon of the stuff
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: of more. The purpose for drinking that much is to
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: imbue the young men with the courage to face what
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: comes next. That next thing is a priest endows the
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: shrine with a dosogin, or a protective travel spirit associated
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: with crossroads. The drunken twenty five and forty two year
• 40:52
  Speaker 6: olds must then defend the shrine against all the other
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: men of the village, who arm themselves with torchu is
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: an attempt to burn the shrine down. At least one
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: person has died from injury sustained in this yearly festival,
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: and many receive serious injuries. The whole ceremony originally was
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: meant to encourage a good harvest. These days it's also
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: to wish for a profitable skiing season.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: You need some water man begin, okay.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: All right, I am officially starting the timer.
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: I get one for you, hemy mistard. All right?
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: So why are they only twenty five and forty two?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: And they're not arranged?
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: It's not everyone twenty five to forty two, it's those
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: ages specific.
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: An excellent question. Many Japanese traditions are based in superstition
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: in the festival is no different with the twenty five
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: and forty two year old in the village chosen to
• 41:50
  Speaker 6: take on the special roles because those are the so
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: called unlucky ages for men.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: Of course, he had an answer for him.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: That's you know, that's almost suspicious. There we go, there
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: we go.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Why are you so horrible?
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: It just comes naturally, I guess.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: That's fair, that's it. Yeah, I don't know, man, I
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: thought you were bringing the fire. I got no. He
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: puts out my fire. He extinguishes me like like one
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: of those torches. And this potentially untrue story.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: So we're at two minutes. Hang on, they got one
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: for you, all right, hear me, mister, what is what?
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: What year did this originate?
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: In?
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: It again?
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Eighteen sixty three?
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Crypt uh damn it?
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: There you go?
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: All right? Yeah, what turning back up on him?
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: What is the uh?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: What town is it in again?
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: It's it's in Nosala, just at the base of a
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: mountain range.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Oh what is this like some kind of generic just
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: just beer?
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: Yep, it just just store brand beer in a white
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: can with a word beer.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Honest, it's skunky. It's like a prop you'd see in
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: a movie.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I couldn't at least bring natty like.
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: I honestly found it like in the basement. But go ahead.
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, man.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: There's so many things like can't you just give us
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: a quick a to be kind of like scenario?
• 43:22
  Speaker 6: This was a quick one.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: No, no, well we are.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: At fifty seconds.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, what the torches? The burning down? Why the men?
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's not true. It seems like Ben that
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: there's parts of this. I know there are rituals like
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: this that they do. There's like the Saki ceremonies where
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: they even like, you know, spit the fermented the rice
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: and the lily put they make their sake, spit the rice,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: chew it up and spit it into a queue, and
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: then they cover it and bury it and then it's
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: like a whole thing. It was in a movie I saw.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I just feel because I'm such an optimistic person. I
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: feel burned every time I guess. And it's not you know, okay,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I just want to believe in stuff too much.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, I guess. I just feel like, what,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: what are they risk burning down infrastructure?
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to go not true? Five four three, Okay,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: we're gonna lock it. We didn't lock it in yet.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Stop licking at me that way, twister. That's our time.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: He's given me a look. You know, you never know
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: with Okay, all right, we'll say it.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Then just do it. Not true, you poor idiots, you
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: poor idiots.
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: It's true, son of us, It is absolutely true. I
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: gave you this on a platter.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I did you say platter or platter.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Listen, I've had a few, all right. Listen, listen, listen,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: man bowling listen. I had to make sure it was
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: good stuff that I brought you. Listen, all right.
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: So anyway, yeah, no, this is one of the three
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: big fire festivals of Japan. It's actually one of the
• 44:55
  Speaker 6: most famous. Has been covered with various news outlets NPR,
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: and I mean it was the internet is lousy with
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: information about this thing, and I thought for sure one
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: of you would have heard about it, since it's so
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: creat So.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I feel have you heard about the one with the
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: rice though? Where they spits that one?
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: So what is happening here is the dosojin is as
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: a Shinto spirit that is considered to be a kindly
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: spirit that helps travelers, and so the priests from the
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: nearby shrine supposedly imbuse this temporary shrine, this model of
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: a shrine that's been constructed over the course of a
• 45:35
  Speaker 6: few days by about one hundred villagers with the spirit
• 45:39
  Speaker 6: of a dos Ojen. The whole purpose is to burn
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: it's it's it's almost like an offering, and so they
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: build a big bonfire out of various pieces of very
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: flammable stuff and lots of the tall dolls and things
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: that represent various elements of the culture. And then the
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: men of the village they light their torches. They are
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: supposed to eventually burn the thing down. I think that's
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: also one of the reasons why the defenders are encouraged
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: to get almost blackout drunk.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: It seems dangerous with fire.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's righting a guy died and lots of people
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: get day.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: In my defense, in our defense, when you say shrine
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: and you're talking about like a village, I think I'm
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: picturing like a building that's meant to stay there.
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: No, this was absolutely just constructed for the purpose at
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: the festival.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: That's what threw me. That's what for me.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: And a lot of those buildings are created from wood
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: rather than still.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, this one is like you risk burning down the
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: whole village though, Like, yeah.
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: The pictures of this, by the way, are phenomenal. It
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: happens January fifteenth every year. So if you guys, you know,
• 46:44
  Speaker 6: we don't want to do a ridiculous history on the road,
• 46:46
  Speaker 6: I'm just.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Saying extra credit January fifteenth, be there. Yeah, let's get
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: the bosses to pop for Japan tickets.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lend. Just for fun, let's find one of our
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: coworkers that is either forty two or twenty five and
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: not tell them what's going down to Waylan.
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: You know what age I am this year? Right, forty two?
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: I just missed it.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Well done? Yeah, well, I can't even be mad. That
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: was good.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I love learning new stuff nol. So, although Quister, I
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: do feel like you put a lot more work into
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: gloating about today than you did into doing the question,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I applaud you.
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: I gave you so many hints for one thing. Just
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: the last time I was on here, you mentioned that
• 47:30
  Speaker 6: when I do a really long one, it means it's fake.
• 47:34
  Speaker 6: I did another really long one just so that you
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: would know it was real, and you still chose.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: To tell by the way you were looking at me.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Man, I should have flipped it. Should have. Yeah, But
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: we're a team. We are a team.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: We're a team team. I don't want to do a
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: last minute flip. And we have your back. Folks, thank
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in, and Quister, thank you
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: for coming on the show.
• 47:58
  Speaker 6: Enjoy your beer.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: They thank you for the Thank you for the unlabeled.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Generic basement beer. Not to say swill.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Well, that's it for us today. However, if you would
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: like to learn more Ridiculous history, if you would like
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: to hang out with your fellow Ridiculous historians, boy, do
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: we have good news for you.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do it on the Facebook. You can
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: just go on the Facebook page for the show, or
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: if you want to take it up a not you
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: can join our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians. Where I
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: hear that pretty soon we're going to see pictures of
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: super producer cases, very lucrative childhood modeling career right headshots here,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: there's catalog spreads spreads. Yeah, you know, probably gonna be
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: some Oshkosh goosh involved.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: We'll get to see him with an assortment of fake
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: parrots on what I hear.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff, good times over, good times over on
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: the Ridiculous Historians. You can also do us a solid
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: and leave us a kindly review on iTunes cause you know,
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: why wouldn't you.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we always like to hear from you, and do
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: remember to tune in for our next episode where we
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: nailed down the mystery behind the name of California.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Spoiler alert involves a badass Amazonian queen and weaponized Griffins.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, what the heck are you guys talking about.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: We'll find out on our very next episode. In the meantime,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: that's all for today. Thank you so much if you
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: are participating in any of the stuff we mentioned in
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: this topic. Not to sound too much like a worry warp,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: but we, all of us, the Quister and Casey included,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: hope that you are safe and make responsible decisions.
• 49:43
  Speaker 6: Indeed, I can't open the door, guys, I can't. I can't.
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: I'm too far gone.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: It's because your hands are so tiny. Let's get some
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: torches from One more podcast from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.