Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / The Satiety Diet for Fat Loss After 40 | Ep 473

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The Satiety Diet for Fat Loss After 40 | Ep 473 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:00
  Philip Pape: You've probably heard that along with fat loss comes some level of hunger, and that you have to sit with it sometimes, sometimes you have to push through, and it is the price of admission.
• 0:10
  Philip Pape: I've seen many fat loss attempts fail because of this willing acceptance for hunger.
• 0:17
  Philip Pape: And today I want to walk you through what a fat loss diet looks like when you instead design it around fullness.
• 0:24
  Philip Pape: There are five big satiety levers that the research tells us can really, really help when it comes to adherence with your diet, which ultimately is the thing that will make you successful.
• 0:34
  Philip Pape: So we're gonna go over that, the specific targets that you can hit at your next meal, and a 200-calorie reality check that's gonna change how you evaluate what is on your plate.
• 0:44
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that puts a popular piece of fitness advice under the microscope, finds the hidden reason it doesn't work, and gives you the deceptively simple fix that does.
• 0:58
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, certified nutrition coach Philip Pape, founder of the Fitness Lab app, and today's episode comes from basically a lot of the misunderstandings I see relative to fat loss phases and appetite.
• 1:12
  Philip Pape: If you're over 40, especially, if you're a woman in the perimenopause or post-menopause transition, you've probably run the following experiment.
• 1:22
  Philip Pape: You decide to lose fat, you of course cut calories to go in a deficit, you have some level of discipline for the first few weeks, you're motivated, and then maybe around weeks five or six, the hunger starts to increase more and more.
• 1:34
  Philip Pape: It gets really loud.
• 1:36
  Philip Pape: You start thinking about or even obsessing about food more than you want to, and then you start to slip.
• 1:41
  Philip Pape: You eat a little bit extra at night, maybe you sneak in a snack here or there.
• 1:45
  Philip Pape: Maybe the foods that you go for are a little bit more calorie dense than you anticipated.
• 1:50
  Philip Pape: And then it starts to stall or push back or slow down your fat loss phase or end it all together.
• 1:59
  Philip Pape: And on one hand, yes, you should have some level of feeling of hunger or some appetite because your body is trying to draw from its energy stores, from its fat cells.
• 2:08
  Philip Pape: And there's going to be hunger that comes along with that.
• 2:10
  Philip Pape: There are a lot of hormonal changes that occur.
• 2:12
  Philip Pape: But also, we shouldn't look at hunger as this like character test, you know, that we like, okay, you've just got to be in this massive level of hunger.
• 2:20
  Philip Pape: That means it's working.
• 2:21
  Philip Pape: That's the thing I hear all the time.
• 2:22
  Philip Pape: It means it's working.
• 2:24
  Philip Pape: This is a measurable physiological state that you should be in that scales with how long and how aggressive a deficit is.
• 2:32
  Philip Pape: And that's fine, but why don't we work with that as best as possible and minimize the effects?
• 2:38
  Philip Pape: Because a lot of you, the way you're eating, whether you're in a fat loss or not, is not really contributing toward the most satisfy or high satiety, I should say, full diet that will make fat loss a bit easier.
• 2:49
  Philip Pape: And by easier, I mean not just that you get through and adhere.
• 2:52
  Philip Pape: That's obviously very important, but you can manipulate the variables, like how aggressively you can go, and maybe you can then shorten the duration because you've made it a little bit easier on yourself, let alone some of the more aggressive experiments like a rapid fat loss phase, which we're gonna be covering in an upcoming episode as we revisit that topic.
• 3:11
  Philip Pape: So we're doing three things today.
• 3:13
  Philip Pape: First, the actual biology of post-diet hunger, including a study where people were still hungrier and had altered hormones 12 months after the diet ended.
• 3:24
  Philip Pape: Second, we're gonna talk about the five satiety levers.
• 3:27
  Philip Pape: These are the big variables that research pops up when we think about why do some meals leave us full for many hours and some just don't satisfy us.
• 3:39
  Philip Pape: And then that's when we lead to the midnight snacking or what have you.
• 3:42
  Philip Pape: And then third, we're gonna give you some practical targets that you can set or target or audit for your next meal.
• 3:48
  Philip Pape: I'm not talking about calories, macros, I'm talking about around satiety.
• 3:51
  Philip Pape: And then at the end of this episode, I'm gonna share a 200-calorie reality check.
• 3:57
  Philip Pape: These are just some different foods that are 200 calories each, so you can compare in your head differences in calorie density and nutrient density that will help you with fullness because that's the principle of all of this.
• 4:08
  Philip Pape: All right, so let's start with the framing here that okay, fat loss requires hunger.
• 4:14
  Philip Pape: Eat less, move more, push through the discomfort.
• 4:16
  Philip Pape: You need to be in calorie deficit, energy balance, all that's great.
• 4:19
  Philip Pape: And yet you've heard me talk about the value of behavior change where discipline and willpower are very difficult things to rely on and motivation, right?
• 4:28
  Philip Pape: We don't want to have that.
• 4:29
  Philip Pape: We want to kind of engineer our approach to work with the reality of the situation rather than trying to push through the reality.
• 4:37
  Philip Pape: So when you treat hunger like a thing you have to have and a hat you you have to expect it during fat loss, it also becomes its own moral signal, which is interesting, right?
• 4:46
  Philip Pape: Sometimes we talk about food as good or bad, but also I've heard I've seen on social media talking about hunger as like it's a sign of weakness if you can't outlast your hunger because that's necessary for the fat to come off.
• 4:58
  Philip Pape: Now, this isn't always the framing.
• 5:00
  Philip Pape: A lot of the framing is actually quite the opposite, like, oh, you're not gonna have any hunger at all, and you could lose fat so easily.
• 5:06
  Philip Pape: Well, I think that does a disservice as well.
• 5:09
  Philip Pape: Uh, but but hunger is not a moral thing either.
• 5:11
  Philip Pape: It's just a biological output of your energy state, driven largely by hormones, driven by some other things, but primarily by hormones.
• 5:21
  Philip Pape: And that it gets louder and louder the more that you restrict and the longer you restrict.
• 5:26
  Philip Pape: It's a feedback signal.
• 5:28
  Philip Pape: And for some of you, it's stronger than others, right?
• 5:30
  Philip Pape: We have brain-related genes.
• 5:32
  Philip Pape: This is why the GLP1s, for some people, when they go off with them, they immediately go back to their prior behavior.
• 5:37
  Philip Pape: And for others, it kind of they can titrate off or even change their behavior while on them.
• 5:42
  Philip Pape: But anyway, I want to share a study with you.
• 5:44
  Philip Pape: Okay, this is Smithran or Sumithran and their colleagues out of the University of Melbourne.
• 5:50
  Philip Pape: And this is published in the New England Journal of Medicine back in 2011, so about 15 years ago.
• 5:56
  Philip Pape: And it's it's a phenomenal piece of work, in my opinion.
• 5:58
  Philip Pape: They took 50 overweight adults, put them on a 10-week diet, and they lost about 13 kilograms on average.
• 6:05
  Philip Pape: Okay, so far, so good.
• 6:06
  Philip Pape: Then they followed them for a full year.
• 6:08
  Philip Pape: And what they found at the 12 months mark after the diet, a year after the diet ended, was almost every hormone that regulates hunger was still abnormal.
• 6:19
  Philip Pape: So ghrelin, the hunger hormone, was still elevated.
• 6:22
  Philip Pape: Leptin, the fullness and energy storage hormone, was still lower, uh, peptide YY, GLP1, cholecysokinin, all the natural satiety signals were all depressed from their previous state.
• 6:35
  Philip Pape: And also the subjective hunger ratings were much higher than they were before the diet started.
• 6:41
  Philip Pape: So that's 12 months after the diet.
• 6:43
  Philip Pape: Now you think about that, the body was still acting like it was being starved, and the hunger wasn't going away.
• 6:50
  Philip Pape: And these were people who were not actively dieting anymore, right?
• 6:54
  Philip Pape: So this is interesting because it's a measurable state of biology, your biology or physiology that could seem to persist after a deficit ends.
• 7:04
  Philip Pape: There's another piece of research I want to share here.
• 7:06
  Philip Pape: It's Rosenbaum and Libel, and this is at Columbia University.
• 7:10
  Philip Pape: And they've been doing some good obesity research for maybe the last three decades.
• 7:14
  Philip Pape: They did some fMRI research that showed that your brain's response to food images literally changes after weight loss, where the reward regions light up more, the prefrontal uh control parts of the brain that say, like, you know, no thanks, I'm full, I'm I'm good, light up less.
• 7:36
  Philip Pape: So when you've lost weight and then you, you know, go back, go past that bakery that you like the cannolis from, and I'm not talking from personal experience, am I?
• 7:45
  Philip Pape: Uh, it's not that you've also be all of a sudden become weaker or something.
• 7:50
  Philip Pape: It's that your brain is processing that smell of those foods with a little bit of a different signal than before.
• 7:57
  Philip Pape: And when in the study they gave leptin to restore the leptin to pre-diet levels, the patterns normalize.
• 8:05
  Philip Pape: So it was the biology, it was the hormones driving the behavior.
• 8:08
  Philip Pape: Now you're like, oh my gosh, that means I shouldn't go into a fat loss phase.
• 8:11
  Philip Pape: I shouldn't diet, I shouldn't lose weight, because then it's gonna be worse.
• 8:14
  Philip Pape: Well, no.
• 8:14
  Philip Pape: What do we do with this information?
• 8:16
  Philip Pape: Obviously, you can lose fat.
• 8:17
  Philip Pape: People do it all the time.
• 8:18
  Philip Pape: I've worked, I've worked with people all the time, clients, people and eat more lift heavy that lose it, and they're actually far better off than when they started, both from a health perspective, but also in managing things like their hunger signals.
• 8:29
  Philip Pape: What I am saying is that just trying to fight willpower is not gonna help you long term when other things are amplifying your hunger all the time, sleep, stress, changes to hormones and things.
• 8:41
  Philip Pape: So I think the best move here is to design your diet so that you trigger less hunger per calorie of deficit in the first place, and you normalize these things and eat in a way in your diet that you would eat not in a diet.
• 8:55
  Philip Pape: The only difference being some of these things are scaled down.
• 8:57
  Philip Pape: Calories are scaled down, maybe a protein scaled up, maybe carbs are scaled way down during a diet, just to, you know, be in the proper energy balance.
• 9:06
  Philip Pape: So if you want to engineer a diet for fullness, the question becomes so this is the title of the episode the satiety diet.
• 9:13
  Philip Pape: What are the variables you have to manipulate?
• 9:15
  Philip Pape: When you look at satiety research from the last 30 years, and I'll tell you, listening to a lot of other experts on this over the past couple years, it's very difficult to tease apart real conclusions.
• 9:28
  Philip Pape: Let's just put it that way.
• 9:29
  Philip Pape: It's it's a mess.
• 9:30
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 9:31
  Philip Pape: But there are there's been a lot of activity in the last even five years that we can maybe look at.
• 9:36
  Philip Pape: And it seems like five things I'm gonna talk about today really move the needle the most.
• 9:41
  Philip Pape: And those five things are energy density, protein, viscous fiber, the rate at which you eat, and then what we call hyperpalatability.
• 9:52
  Philip Pape: So we're gonna focus on those five things.
• 9:54
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 9:54
  Philip Pape: So the first one is energy density, and this is the calories per gram of food.
• 10:00
  Philip Pape: How many calories are packed in the same volume of food?
• 10:04
  Philip Pape: Barbara Rolls at Penn State, she has been this, I guess, volumetrics person when we talk about volume, volumetrics for decades, really.
• 10:12
  Philip Pape: She built this stream of research, what I'd call the seminal stream of research here.
• 10:17
  Philip Pape: The bottom line is that humans eat to a relatively fixed weight of food per day.
• 10:22
  Philip Pape: Interesting, right?
• 10:23
  Philip Pape: Like we tend to want to eat the same quantity, physical quantity of food.
• 10:28
  Philip Pape: We don't eat to a calorie target.
• 10:30
  Philip Pape: We eat to a volume target, which means, by definition, hey, if you can lower the energy density of what's going in your mouth, what's on your plate, you can eat the same physical amount of food and ingest fewer calories without feeling deprived.
• 10:43
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 10:43
  Philip Pape: Many of you are like, yeah, I've heard that before, or I know that.
• 10:46
  Philip Pape: That's that seems to make sense.
• 10:47
  Philip Pape: Well, what am I going to do in this modern food environment, right?
• 10:49
  Philip Pape: No.
• 10:50
  Philip Pape: So when we look at specific numbers, very low energy density would be considered less than 0.6 calories per gram.
• 10:59
  Philip Pape: So what is that?
• 11:00
  Philip Pape: Most non-starchy vegetables, that would be broth-based soups.
• 11:04
  Philip Pape: That'd be fruits like melon and strawberries.
• 11:06
  Philip Pape: That's very low energy.
• 11:08
  Philip Pape: That's why I think broth-based soups, for example, are great during fat loss, you know, vegetable soups, fruits like berries.
• 11:14
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 11:14
  Philip Pape: Then that's a very low.
• 11:16
  Philip Pape: Now, low is 0.6 to 1.5.
• 11:18
  Philip Pape: So that would include fruits, starchy vegetables, low-fat dairy, beans, whole grains, like cooked whole grains, lean meats.
• 11:26
  Philip Pape: So now we're we're expanding to a lot of the wonderful, delicious whole foods we love to eat that include carbs, fats, or carbs and protein primarily, and a little bit of fat in there, but not much.
• 11:36
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 11:37
  Philip Pape: So then medium energy density, we get up to one and a half to four calories per gram.
• 11:42
  Philip Pape: This would be like the typical Western diet sandwich and meat and cheese zone.
• 11:47
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 11:48
  Philip Pape: So you're starting to introduce more fats, more fatty forms of the different foods, higher fat dairy, you know, meats, et cetera.
• 11:55
  Philip Pape: Then high energy density is like four to nine calories per gram.
• 11:59
  Philip Pape: Now we're talking about processed foods like crackers, chips, cookies, but also whole foods like nuts and chocolate, which are very energy energy dense.
• 12:06
  Philip Pape: And then the most energy dense is like pure oils, so pure fats and butter and things like that.
• 12:12
  Philip Pape: That's nine calories per gram, which is just fat.
• 12:14
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 12:14
  Philip Pape: Fat is nine calories per gram.
• 12:16
  Philip Pape: So like a pure fat source is gonna be, by definition, the most energy dense.
• 12:20
  Philip Pape: So if your daily average for your whole meals or your whole uh food log for the day is two to two and a half calories per gram, then you're gonna be eating a small physical amount of food for your calorie budget versus if it's like closer to one to two, right?
• 12:39
  Philip Pape: And hopefully you're if you're and if you're sitting much higher than that, then then you've really got low-hanging fruit, pun intended, to go after here, right?
• 12:47
  Philip Pape: And so these all matter because of things like stretch receptors and your gut hormones.
• 12:52
  Philip Pape: So that's the first big lever, is simply energy density.
• 12:57
  Philip Pape: Lever two is protein, protein percentage.
• 13:00
  Philip Pape: Now I know what you're thinking.
• 13:02
  Philip Pape: You're like, okay, I lift weights, I already eat my protein.
• 13:04
  Philip Pape: This isn't new.
• 13:04
  Philip Pape: I hear about protein all the time.
• 13:06
  Philip Pape: But I want to talk about the satiety data specifically here, okay?
• 13:10
  Philip Pape: Let alone all the other benefits of protein, which we're going to have an episode soon about some counterintuitive aspects of protein, like, hey, you might be able to actually eat more protein, all things equal, and not gain weight or fat and actually lose fat.
• 13:24
  Philip Pape: Anyway, that's beside the point.
• 13:26
  Philip Pape: Let's talk about satiety.
• 13:27
  Philip Pape: So there's a study by Wagel and colleagues in 2005.
• 13:31
  Philip Pape: They took people from a normal diet at like 15% protein.
• 13:34
  Philip Pape: You know, most people don't get very much protein, and they bumped them to 30% protein.
• 13:39
  Philip Pape: But they said you could eat whatever you want, you just have to hit the protein.
• 13:42
  Philip Pape: So all they're tracking is protein, hit your protein.
• 13:45
  Philip Pape: Their spontaneous calorie intake dropped by 441 calories a day without any conscious restriction.
• 13:52
  Philip Pape: The body just said, hey, I don't need as much food.
• 13:55
  Philip Pape: I don't need as much food because you increased your protein.
• 13:59
  Philip Pape: Now, if you look at the average American, you know, at around 15% of calories from protein, that's like the control group that was inadequate.
• 14:07
  Philip Pape: So for many of you, if you're not deliberately upping your protein already, then this is a big lever.
• 14:13
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 14:13
  Philip Pape: And the practical target we often talk about here is 0.7 to 1 grams per pound of body weight.
• 14:19
  Philip Pape: But 0.7 is more than sufficient for most people, for the average person.
• 14:23
  Philip Pape: If you like to eat more, if you want to eat more, if you can't eat more, go for it.
• 14:26
  Philip Pape: Nothing wrong with it, unless it's so high that it crowds out carbs or fat.
• 14:31
  Philip Pape: But it tends to be kind of on an average diet, eh, 30% of your calories.
• 14:35
  Philip Pape: We don't think percentages for protein.
• 14:37
  Philip Pape: I usually tell you, you know, grams per pound because it's gonna depend on your body size and your goal.
• 14:41
  Philip Pape: But aiming for 30 to 40 grams per meal is usually the way to get there.
• 14:46
  Philip Pape: And we often see that front loading that at breakfast can give you extra benefits.
• 14:50
  Philip Pape: There's also the benefits of, you know, how much leucine you have and hitting muscle protein synthesis and all that.
• 14:55
  Philip Pape: But all I care about here is total protein.
• 14:57
  Philip Pape: Okay, so that's a good one to just to re uh iterate.
• 15:00
  Philip Pape: Lever three is interesting.
• 15:03
  Philip Pape: It's viscous fiber, viscous fiber, not just any fiber.
• 15:07
  Philip Pape: Okay, we're talking about a high satiety diet, viscous fiber.
• 15:11
  Philip Pape: Now, this is fiber that thickens the water in your gut.
• 15:15
  Philip Pape: So this would be oats and beta glucan, which beans, legumes, uh, psyllium.
• 15:22
  Philip Pape: You know, some of you actually do use cilium husk as a supplement, chia seeds, flax seeds.
• 15:27
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 15:27
  Philip Pape: A 2019 meta-analysis by Sally and colleagues looked at the effect sizes of different soluble fibers on subsequent calorie intake.
• 15:37
  Philip Pape: Guar gum had an effect size of negative 0.96, which is actually huge.
• 15:43
  Philip Pape: Beta glucan was negative 0.42, pectin was negative 0.22.
• 15:48
  Philip Pape: So you don't have to understand exactly what that means, just that they are highly correlated with reducing how much you eat subsequently.
• 15:56
  Philip Pape: And when we look at the mechanism, viscous fiber slows the rate at which food empties from your stomach.
• 16:02
  Philip Pape: So it slows gastric emptying, as they call it, and therefore your stomach stays full longer.
• 16:06
  Philip Pape: It also slows the rise of blood glucose.
• 16:09
  Philip Pape: Again, we've talked about eating more balanced meals that include fiber, and that tends to slow down your increase of blood sugar in addition to walking after meals.
• 16:20
  Philip Pape: So as it ferments in your colon, it produces short-chain fatty acids that trigger your gut to release more GOP1, more peptide peptide YY.
• 16:27
  Philip Pape: These are your natural fullness hormones.
• 16:30
  Philip Pape: You know, the GOP1.
• 16:32
  Philip Pape: We know that is the same thing that weight loss drugs are trying to replicate.
• 16:36
  Philip Pape: And again, again, we we don't want to compare them to the drugs.
• 16:38
  Philip Pape: The drugs are far more powerful in terms of the dose.
• 16:41
  Philip Pape: But the average American gets not very much fiber at all, about I think 10 to 15 grams of fiber a day.
• 16:46
  Philip Pape: And we want you at 25 to 40, you know, more for men than women, just due to size and how much you eat.
• 16:52
  Philip Pape: And if you could aim for, let's say, eight to 15 of those from viscous sources, like if you want to be very specific based on this tip in your high satiety diet, look at foods that have higher viscous fiber and make those a per uh a good chunk of the fiber you get every day, not to mention increasing fiber in general.
• 17:13
  Philip Pape: Don't do it overnight.
• 17:14
  Philip Pape: If you get low fiber, don't go from low to super high.
• 17:16
  Philip Pape: That could be not great on your gut.
• 17:18
  Philip Pape: You know, titrate it up over, let's say, a week.
• 17:20
  Philip Pape: All right, lever four is eating rate, how fast you eat, how fast food enters your body.
• 17:26
  Philip Pape: And this is wildly underrated.
• 17:28
  Philip Pape: And for those of us who love to shovel food down our mouths or love to eat while watching TV or looking at our phone or not eat mindfully, listen up because this could be your biggest lever.
• 17:38
  Philip Pape: Ford and colleagues, they took pooled data across 327 foods and they found that unprocessed foods, so unprocessed foods are eaten at about 35 calories a minute, whereas processed foods are eating eaten at 54 calories a minute.
• 17:55
  Philip Pape: Ultra processed foods at 69 calories per minute.
• 17:59
  Philip Pape: So an ultra-processed meal will be eaten and go into your body twice as fast as a whole food meal.
• 18:07
  Philip Pape: Why does that matter?
• 18:08
  Philip Pape: Probably a little bit obvious, but let's get into it.
• 18:11
  Philip Pape: Your gut takes about 20 to 30 minutes to send a fullness signal to your brain, like a true hey, I am full.
• 18:18
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 18:19
  Philip Pape: If you front load 800 calories in like 12 minutes, then you're not gonna get that signal until you're already done eating, and now you're thinking of dessert.
• 18:29
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 18:30
  Philip Pape: So this could this is gonna hit on both mindful eating and calorie density that we already talked about.
• 18:36
  Philip Pape: There's a 2024 crossover trial out of Japan by Habano and colleagues, where they fed people the same calories and macros, same protein, fat, carbs, but in one week the food was ultra-processed, and in the other week it wasn't.
• 18:52
  Philip Pape: So on the ultra-processed week, people ate 813 calories a day.
• 18:56
  Philip Pape: So that's that's a lot of food, just you know, we're talking about the the one meal.
• 19:00
  Philip Pape: And the mechanism behind that was the chewing frequency.
• 19:04
  Philip Pape: There was fewer, there was less chewing, faster eating, and so they consumed more food.
• 19:09
  Philip Pape: So the the lever here for you is really texture, solid versus liquid, intact food versus I'll say pureed or processed food, fibrous versions of food, whole grains and such versus refined foods.
• 19:26
  Philip Pape: And then the mindful eating part as well, like setting your fork down between bites and not being distracted while you're eating.
• 19:33
  Philip Pape: You know, I'm sorry, these are boring, like long-tested pieces of advice, but they're gonna work for slowing down your eating and increasing your fullness just from that.
• 19:43
  Philip Pape: And look, when you're in fat loss and you're not eating very big meals, maybe not even as many meals, wouldn't it be nice to just actually enjoy what you're eating and not just scarf it down and be like, okay, now the hunger starts to hit and I'm trying to lose fat?
• 19:56
  Philip Pape: So it's a very important one.
• 19:58
  Philip Pape: The last lever here for a high satiety diet is hyper palatabil hyper palatability.
• 20:04
  Philip Pape: And this kind of overlaps the most of what people think of as junk food and highly processed food, but I want to be careful here because hyper palatable foods, okay, that's a term, I think it comes from Terra Focino at the University of Kansas, based on what I could discover.
• 20:19
  Philip Pape: Hyperpalatable foods are foods that combine fat with sugar, fat with salt, or carbs with salt at specific concentration thresholds, right?
• 20:30
  Philip Pape: Hence they are super palatable.
• 20:32
  Philip Pape: They're so super delicious.
• 20:34
  Philip Pape: Okay, we're we're separating this out from calorie density, which was lever one, even though there can be some overlap here.
• 20:40
  Philip Pape: About 62% of items in the US food supply meet the definition of ult of hyper palatable.
• 20:46
  Philip Pape: Okay, that's 62%, that's like two-thirds of what's in the supermarket, which isn't surprising if you go into a supermarket, but it's still insane.
• 20:54
  Philip Pape: And when we talk about the food environment and engineered foods and the nutrition science and all that behind all this stuff, where the foods are engineered deliberately to bypass your fullness signals.
• 21:04
  Philip Pape: And I think they're trying to even amp that up further since people are eating less on GLP1s, you know, without going into conspiracy theorists, capitalism and the drive to, you know, give people something that's delicious so they buy more of it.
• 21:17
  Philip Pape: I mean, if we buy it, they're gonna make it, is what it comes down to.
• 21:20
  Philip Pape: I'm not gonna blame them.
• 21:21
  Philip Pape: If we're gonna buy it, they're gonna make it.
• 21:23
  Philip Pape: Now, there's been research that that looks at, you know, when you control for energy density, that was lever number one, and then hyperpalatability, hyper palatability, it's not that foods are labeled as ultra-processed that's the problem.
• 21:37
  Philip Pape: It's how it's engineered, one food's engineered versus the other.
• 21:41
  Philip Pape: So, for example, some ultra processed foods are low in energy density and they're not hyperpalatable.
• 21:48
  Philip Pape: And so I put them under the, I'll say, fine condition from a satiety perspective.
• 21:53
  Philip Pape: And then some so called whole foods, whole foods like trail mix or granola are densely caloric.
• 21:59
  Philip Pape: They have a lot of calories and they're engineered for palatability.
• 22:02
  Philip Pape: And they will absolutely get past your fullness signals and you can eat too much of them very easily, which honestly is why people seek them out for going on a hike and having a lot of energy on your hike.
• 22:12
  Philip Pape: It's easy to eat, doesn't fill you up too much, and you get a lot of calories.
• 22:16
  Philip Pape: So if you're trying to lose fat, if you're trying to control for that, you've just got to be aware of hyper palatability in particular, independent of whether it's an ultra-processed food.
• 22:28
  Philip Pape: So those are your five levers: energy density, protein, viscous fiber, rate of eating, and hyperpalatability.
• 22:36
  Philip Pape: Palatability.
• 22:38
  Philip Pape: Now, two meals with the exact same calories can produce wildly different hunger depending on how they score on these variables.
• 22:47
  Philip Pape: A 500-calorie burger and fries versus a 500-calorie, say, chicken, beans, sweet potato vegetable plate are probably going to feel different.
• 22:57
  Philip Pape: You're going to probably be hungry after the burger and fries.
• 23:00
  Philip Pape: I mean, anybody who's ever eaten Chinese food probably feels hungry like an hour later.
• 23:04
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 23:05
  Philip Pape: So before I move into the practical fix here, I want to address something because I know what you're thinking.
• 23:09
  Philip Pape: You're like, okay, this sounds great, but how do I figure out where my current diet falls on these levers?
• 23:14
  Philip Pape: What do I do?
• 23:14
  Philip Pape: How do I know if my protein percentage is where it needs to be, my average energy density, the hyperballiathy, all that?
• 23:21
  Philip Pape: Well, I do want to mention something that we have.
• 23:23
  Philip Pape: It's a program called Eat More Lift Heavy.
• 23:25
  Philip Pape: It's 26 weeks of skill by skill by skill.
• 23:29
  Philip Pape: And in phase one, we actually set up how you measure these things.
• 23:33
  Philip Pape: Not just calories and macros, but measuring your fiber and energy density and really comparing it to some other things going on, including your biofeedback, like your hunger.
• 23:43
  Philip Pape: And we don't, you don't have to track all of these things and look at all of them.
• 23:47
  Philip Pape: All you have to do is log your food, compare it to how you're feeling, and see where the correlations might be, and then start to tweak the right variables.
• 23:56
  Philip Pape: So that's something we help you with.
• 23:58
  Philip Pape: Obviously, you can do these things on your own if you, you know, apply all these systems, if you have a system, but we give you that system.
• 24:04
  Philip Pape: Go to eatmore liftheavy.com.
• 24:07
  Philip Pape: Um, you get human coaching in there.
• 24:09
  Philip Pape: Carol and I are inside providing coaching.
• 24:11
  Philip Pape: There's live calls.
• 24:12
  Philip Pape: There's the one focus per week that you learn and apply and get accountability from.
• 24:18
  Philip Pape: And we help you become independent when it comes to these things.
• 24:21
  Philip Pape: And I'm all about that.
• 24:23
  Philip Pape: That is my mission is to help teach all of you to become independent in this world without having to become a nutrition scientist.
• 24:29
  Philip Pape: So go to eatmorliftheavy.com.
• 24:32
  Philip Pape: That's eatmore liftheavy.com.
• 24:35
  Philip Pape: By the way, when you go in there, you'll see there's something called dialed in, which is closer to a personalized one-on-one coaching experience we have as well.
• 24:42
  Philip Pape: And honestly, I think it's far more affordable than typical, a typical one-on-one coach because of the systems and tools we put in place.
• 24:48
  Philip Pape: So go to eatmore liftheavy.com.
• 24:50
  Philip Pape: All right, so now we have the five levers.
• 24:52
  Philip Pape: How do you use them?
• 24:53
  Philip Pape: I'm gonna give you some specific targets for these, and then you can decide.
• 24:57
  Philip Pape: You know, do you want to track all of these?
• 24:59
  Philip Pape: Do you want to go after one at a time?
• 25:01
  Philip Pape: That's generally what I would recommend.
• 25:03
  Philip Pape: Do you already know which one is the biggest lever that you could attack right now?
• 25:07
  Philip Pape: So let's talk about the meal level for the targets.
• 25:12
  Philip Pape: I would say 30 to 40 grams of protein per meal, eight to 12 grams of fiber per meal is gonna take you very far.
• 25:19
  Philip Pape: And within that fiber, per today's episode, some of that being viscous fiber, like maybe aim for half of it to be viscous.
• 25:28
  Philip Pape: So that the total energy density is ideally under one and a half calories per gram.
• 25:34
  Philip Pape: You're like, I've got to do math.
• 25:35
  Philip Pape: It's pretty simple.
• 25:36
  Philip Pape: Like log it in your in your tracker.
• 25:38
  Philip Pape: I love to use macrofactor.
• 25:40
  Philip Pape: Please, if you want to support the show, download macro factor and use my code WIT's and weights, all one word, and you get your a nutrition summary there, and you can easily tell how many calories per gram based on the total gram weight of the food.
• 25:55
  Philip Pape: And you don't have to do this every time.
• 25:57
  Philip Pape: I would say do it occasionally to kind of audit yourself.
• 26:00
  Philip Pape: Also, slow the rate you eat and don't have a ton of hyperpalatable foods, even though you can have some, because again, we don't demonize any particular foods on this show.
• 26:10
  Philip Pape: There is no one bad food on the planet, not seed oils, not sugar, not any gluten, none of that.
• 26:16
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 26:16
  Philip Pape: And we talked about that on a recent episode.
• 26:18
  Philip Pape: Now, what about at the daily level?
• 26:20
  Philip Pape: So that's at the meal level.
• 26:21
  Philip Pape: You know, at the daily level, it really comes down more to your macros.
• 26:24
  Philip Pape: Are you getting enough protein?
• 26:25
  Philip Pape: Are you getting that 0.701 grams per pound?
• 26:27
  Philip Pape: Are you getting enough fat?
• 26:29
  Philip Pape: For many people, that's 20 to 30 percent of their calories, the rest of their calories from carbs.
• 26:33
  Philip Pape: And then specifically within those carbs, are you getting a good chunk of fiber, 25 to 40 grams of fiber, depending on how much you need, and 8 to 15 of those as viscous.
• 26:43
  Philip Pape: So that's on a daily level, which again, you could do it at the meal level, the daily level, whatever makes sense for you.
• 26:48
  Philip Pape: This is something we help help you analyze on an individual basis and eat more lift heavy if you need that kind of support.
• 26:54
  Philip Pape: But you're looking for the average daily energy density of your food, again, in that like 0.8 to 1.5 calories per gram range.
• 27:04
  Philip Pape: And of course, you got to have enough sleep because I know we didn't even talk about that, and I was hesitant to do so, but sleep is gonna actually affect hunger a lot, a lot.
• 27:15
  Philip Pape: All right, so the rule to apply this, okay.
• 27:18
  Philip Pape: I don't want you to get overwhelmed and panic that you gotta do this every single meal, every day, all the time.
• 27:23
  Philip Pape: There's something what I call the two to three swap rule.
• 27:26
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 27:27
  Philip Pape: Two to three swap rule.
• 27:29
  Philip Pape: Audit your current diet, just audit it.
• 27:31
  Philip Pape: Find the two or three meals that score the worst on these levers.
• 27:35
  Philip Pape: So if you if you log for like a week, you've got probably 21 or more meals to choose from.
• 27:40
  Philip Pape: And there's probably a few that you know are just like not as great when it comes to these things, like maybe they have a lot more fat or processed foods or something.
• 27:48
  Philip Pape: And find the two or three worst meals.
• 27:51
  Philip Pape: Heck, you could probably use AI now.
• 27:52
  Philip Pape: Take the macrofactor export, throw it into AI and say, hey, do what Philip just suggested for me.
• 27:57
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 27:57
  Philip Pape: And for many of you, it's gonna be breakfast where you've got like a granola bar with like the processed yogurt that doesn't have much protein, right?
• 28:04
  Philip Pape: Or a lot of sugar in it or whatever.
• 28:06
  Philip Pape: And again, sugar's not bad.
• 28:07
  Philip Pape: It's just what crowds out what.
• 28:09
  Philip Pape: Maybe it's a snack, right?
• 28:10
  Philip Pape: So, hey, you went for a bag of crackers because they're sitting on the counter.
• 28:13
  Philip Pape: Maybe it's lunch where you have a sandwich.
• 28:15
  Philip Pape: We have our habits, don't we?
• 28:16
  Philip Pape: We have our habits.
• 28:17
  Philip Pape: So find the two or three meals and just replace those with versions that hit these different targets, right?
• 28:24
  Philip Pape: If you're already eating great dinners, like maybe it's fish and some grains and vegetables, it's fine, right?
• 28:31
  Philip Pape: Pick the worst ones and just upgrade them.
• 28:33
  Philip Pape: That's how you kind of slowly shift the whole thing where you want to be.
• 28:36
  Philip Pape: We're adding then the things you want.
• 28:37
  Philip Pape: We're not saying what you have to cut out.
• 28:39
  Philip Pape: So, a concrete example is like if you have this granola bar at breakfast or something equivalent of it, where it's hardly any protein, it's a ton of sugar, it's easy to consume super quickly.
• 28:50
  Philip Pape: Well, swap that one out.
• 28:51
  Philip Pape: Take a couple scrambled eggs with cottage cheese.
• 28:54
  Philip Pape: And when I say with cottage cheese, oh, it's so great to combine them.
• 28:57
  Philip Pape: Delicious, you'll get fluffy, almost like cheesy eggs with a lot more protein, or you can add egg whites, or you can have the cottage cheese on the side.
• 29:05
  Philip Pape: I don't care.
• 29:05
  Philip Pape: However, you want to eat it, and then a piece of fruit, for example.
• 29:08
  Philip Pape: Right?
• 29:08
  Philip Pape: We're talking about swaps here.
• 29:10
  Philip Pape: We're not talking about going perfect and ideal or optimizing.
• 29:14
  Philip Pape: No, we're just talking about swaps.
• 29:15
  Philip Pape: And it's the same amount of calories, but now you've gone from, say, four grams of protein to 30 grams of protein.
• 29:20
  Philip Pape: You've put in something that you have to chew, you've got some fiber from the fruit, the energy density of the meal drops.
• 29:27
  Philip Pape: Now you hit like four of the five levers and you didn't add any calories.
• 29:31
  Philip Pape: Now, sometimes you might add calories.
• 29:32
  Philip Pape: So what?
• 29:33
  Philip Pape: As I mentioned before, sometimes when you add protein, you actually consume fewer calories later in the day because of the satiety.
• 29:40
  Philip Pape: So that's that's a big piece.
• 29:42
  Philip Pape: And then the last thing I want to mention for this is like your mental model each day.
• 29:47
  Philip Pape: Are you comfortably full?
• 29:49
  Philip Pape: Particularly when you're at maintenance calories, like when you're not in a deficit.
• 29:53
  Philip Pape: And then once you've got that set up successfully, I would do that before you ever you do a fat loss phase.
• 29:58
  Philip Pape: Then in a fat loss phase, you probably have some mild hunger per meals between meals, which is fine.
• 30:04
  Philip Pape: That's your biology, but it would be less than it would otherwise.
• 30:08
  Philip Pape: And or it allows you to gain maybe go maybe more aggressively on the on the fat loss phase because now you can handle a little a little bit more hunger, if that makes sense.
• 30:16
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 30:16
  Philip Pape: If you're feeling ravenous though, especially if you're not in fat loss, I mean, let alone in fat loss, go through the questions and ask yourself again about protein and fiber and the you know calorie density and how fast you ate and and then other things like did you sleep enough, et cetera.
• 30:32
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 30:32
  Philip Pape: All right, before we wrap up, I told you at the beginning of the episode I was gonna give you a 200-calorie reality check.
• 30:39
  Philip Pape: And I'm gonna do that in just a second.
• 30:40
  Philip Pape: But again, if if everything I described today felt useful, but maybe a little overwhelming, that is the problem that we solve with eat more lift heavy.
• 30:50
  Philip Pape: And I'm really serious about this.
• 30:52
  Philip Pape: I'm very genuine about this because we used to have a program where people would come in and be overwhelmed.
• 30:57
  Philip Pape: And I feel like a lot of people working with one-on-one coaches sometimes feel overwhelmed because on day one, they're like, you've got to increase your steps, you have to train, you have to increase your protein, you have to do this, this, this, this.
• 31:06
  Philip Pape: I prefer an approach where each week you focus on one small thing and build it up slowly over time so that the fast approach is the slow approach, if that makes sense.
• 31:16
  Philip Pape: In other words, taking a reasonable skill-building approach results in long-term success and sustaining what you're trying to do.
• 31:24
  Philip Pape: So eat more lift heavy.
• 31:25
  Philip Pape: If you go to eatmoriftheavy.com, you can read all about it.
• 31:27
  Philip Pape: No pressure to sign up, just check it out.
• 31:30
  Philip Pape: It's a 26-week guided coaching program.
• 31:33
  Philip Pape: And in the very first phase, this is where we help you set up the measurement system.
• 31:37
  Philip Pape: Figure out, hey, where does my current diet actually fall across the levers that we covered?
• 31:41
  Philip Pape: Some are relevant to you, some less so.
• 31:43
  Philip Pape: And then you start to execute to that and build and build and build.
• 31:47
  Philip Pape: You start to master your protein, you start to understand your patterns, you know how to get around plateaus, how to get the fat loss, whether you're going for 10 to 20 pounds of fat loss, how to see your muscle definition, and so on.
• 31:57
  Philip Pape: Okay, eatmorliftheavy.com.
• 32:00
  Philip Pape: Go to eatmorliftheavy.com.
• 32:03
  Philip Pape: All right, so here is the 200 calorie reality check.
• 32:07
  Philip Pape: We are going to give you five foods that are all 200 calories, so you can visually in your mind or on a plate compare them so you see the difference in energy density and chewability, okay, which are a couple of the levers we talked about.
• 32:21
  Philip Pape: So, 200 calories, what does that look like?
• 32:24
  Philip Pape: That is a full pound of strawberries or half kilogram of strawberries.
• 32:29
  Philip Pape: Takes you like 15 minutes to chew a pound of strawberries.
• 32:33
  Philip Pape: Okay, I wanted to start right there just to kind of set the baseline.
• 32:36
  Philip Pape: Similarly, broccoli, what about broccoli?
• 32:39
  Philip Pape: What does 200 calories look like?
• 32:40
  Philip Pape: That's five cups of broccoli.
• 32:41
  Philip Pape: I mean, I almost never, ever, ever have 200 calories of broccoli on my plate.
• 32:45
  Philip Pape: If there's broccoli for dinner, if I cook it or my wife cooks it, it's almost hardly hardly any of the calories in there.
• 32:51
  Philip Pape: In fact, more calories probably come from the little bit of olive oil we baked it in.
• 32:55
  Philip Pape: So five cups of broccoli to 200 calories, you probably would distend your stomach and you wouldn't even eat that much.
• 33:01
  Philip Pape: But I'm just, you know, giving you it as an example.
• 33:04
  Philip Pape: Potatoes, three medium boiled potatoes.
• 33:07
  Philip Pape: Now, think about you ever cook potatoes, you know, and you chop them up.
• 33:11
  Philip Pape: Imagine three of those big suckers, you eat them.
• 33:14
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 33:15
  Philip Pape: By the way, this is the highest scoring food on the satiety index.
• 33:20
  Philip Pape: So you would be stuffed, and that's only 200 calories.
• 33:23
  Philip Pape: Now, what about almonds?
• 33:24
  Philip Pape: Well, okay, 200 calories is only two ounces of almonds.
• 33:28
  Philip Pape: So that's a very small handful.
• 33:30
  Philip Pape: Chomp, chomp, chomp, you're done.
• 33:32
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 33:32
  Philip Pape: Now, I always think about tree nuts and the fact that like our ancestors would have to actually pick them and like shell them and all that, which would slow things down.
• 33:39
  Philip Pape: But we don't do that.
• 33:40
  Philip Pape: We just buy them all ready to go, salted often, sometimes dipped in chocolate, and boom, in your mouth.
• 33:45
  Philip Pape: And you can you can apply that to peanut butter as well.
• 33:48
  Philip Pape: Like 200 calories of peanut butter is just a tiny amount.
• 33:51
  Philip Pape: And then finally, olive oil, tablespoon and a half of olive oil.
• 33:54
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 33:55
  Philip Pape: So that's not a surprise.
• 33:57
  Philip Pape: And olive oil is great, but a little goes a long way.
• 33:59
  Philip Pape: And so you've got to be aware of these calories.
• 34:01
  Philip Pape: Um, and sometimes set things like salad dressings and sauces are full of oils, so they're very energy dense.
• 34:06
  Philip Pape: So that's 200 calories visualized across some very different amounts of uh foods, some that would make you really full, some of them you would hardly notice, like the almonds or the oil.
• 34:18
  Philip Pape: And really that's the premise of the satiety diet in just like a minute.
• 34:22
  Philip Pape: It's the same energy coming in, but it's a way different level of fullness.
• 34:28
  Philip Pape: And that can be the game changer for you when it comes to fat loss.
• 34:31
  Philip Pape: All right, until next time, keep using your wits, lifting those weights.
• 34:34
  Philip Pape: And remember, hunger is just engineering your diet and working with your signals.
• 34:38
  Philip Pape: It's not a matter of morality or character or gutting it through.
• 34:43
  Philip Pape: I'm Philip Pape, and I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits and Weights podcast.