Latest / iRefresh Podcast / EP 98 The Love of God - Debbie Barker

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EP 98 The Love of God - Debbie Barker · iRefresh Podcast

• 0:00
  I heard the Lord just kind of say, are you trusting me? Well, so for me, when I truly live in the revelation of His love, I completely trust Him. Because I know Father God, Daddy God has my best interest in mind. Yeah.
• 0:27
  Welcome to iRefresh, where we talk about the power of prayer and God's Word.
• 0:40
  Welcome to another episode of I Refresh. I have back with me our friend Debbie Barker. Welcome. Welcome. It's good to be back with you. I have enjoyed when we get to share things of the Lord. It is so much fun to talk about his word and how it relates to us today. And so you have a great message. I want us to just dive into that. Okay, let's do it. We're going to talk about the love of God.
• 1:01
  Now, when we talk about the love of God, there's a lot of different ways you can go to this. But I want you, if you have your Bibles, or you can go run and get your Bible, I'll give you a minute. Let's go to 1 John 4. And so if we're going to look about, really, I think sometimes we think about what's love, love chapter. We always go to 1 Corinthians. But I want us to really see what God says in his word about love here in 1 John. So verse 7 says, Beloved, let us love one another.
• 1:31
  For love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God.
• 1:43
  For God is love. In this, the love of God was manifested towards us, that God has sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
• 2:09
  So we'll break this down for you a little bit because there's a lot of loves in there. But really seeing that the love of God
• 2:18
  comes from him and it flows through us. But if we don't have him in us, first step here, it's like when we go back to renewing our mind, first step was I've got to become a new creation in Christ. First step to really have the love of God in me and to be able to flow out of me again. I need to be born again and have his spirit that's in me. Yes.
• 2:41
  And so everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. But he who does not does not love does not know God. Why? Because God is love. So I think it's so important that we look back to see that all of this comes from him. But I think it's so important that we always stop to look, how am I flowing in my love walk?
• 3:01
  And I think a lot of times we think, um, if you look at the scripture in faith worketh by love. And I think a lot of times we think, um, I mean, I think a lot of times we know faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God, but how does faith work? And it says faith worketh by love. So does that just mean me loving everyone? I think it's so much more than that. I really believe it's the revelation of God's love for us. And I know for me personally, um,
• 3:29
  Those of you that know my testimony, I accepted Christ very early in my life, a spirit filled at the age of seven, really never walked away from God, knew there was a call and purpose on my life. But I found my place after some.
• 3:42
  really close loved ones had gone on to heaven, and some other things in my life that I was reading his word. I was in full-time ministry. I was licensed, ordained minister. I'd been traveling full-time, a REMA grad, an ORU grad. And I remember sitting at my mom's kitchen table and just saying, I'm reading this word, and I'm going to read it.
• 4:03
  And I am sharing this word with others as I traveled throughout the country. But I feel like it's not going in in the same way. And I remember her stopping and saying, honey, I really believe you need a great revelation of God's love for you. And I was thinking, hey.
• 4:21
  I thought I knew that because I had by that time my dad lived in heaven and I had a great earthly daddy. And I always say was will forever will be a daddy's girl. And so because I so knew the love of my dad, I really believed I had a great revelation of God's love. But I remember him taking me back to a place in that and really giving me that revelation that I wasn't as close to him as I thought I was.
• 4:49
  And that there was more. And I think that's for all of us. So when I really, and we're going to walk through some of those steps without giving that whole testimony of really how he gave me that revelation of God's love. Me receiving his love, I read his word different. I received his word different. Different perspective. Yeah, a totally different perspective. Once you walk in the revelation of how much God loves you.
• 5:13
  That's awesome. That's good. I love it. So I wanted to begin with that you see this love comes from God, and it comes from us having this personal relationship with him. And so many times our personal relationship can be tainted by the natural authorities or parents that have been in our life. As great as our parents can be, sometimes we can look at God, or maybe you didn't have a really great parent, sadly, and you're not.
• 5:39
  then you can look at God through those, you're tainted or perspective that is not so positive. And so it goes back to really saying, okay, God, I wanted to have a revelation of your love for me and not skew it through the perspective of what my natural, uh,
• 5:55
  natural relationships. The filter is going to be very distorted because that's the thing that we've had an episode where we've talked about someone who's come from abuse and stuff. And so just a relationship of a male figure, a lot of times women have a challenge then of relating to the Heavenly Father and how could he possibly love me when I've
• 6:16
  been neglected or... Sure. And so I think that's where, too, we were talking about having a revelation of the Lord's love. And I think even as you talked about your mother having that, I remember reading a book, I think it was John Eldridge was talking about, it's a book where it talks about the romance, basically, of the love of the Lord.
• 6:39
  I felt like it was a slow start, but when I got to chapter 7, all of a sudden the revelation of God's love, the way we're like the damsel in distress and how God pursues us and goes after us, and I'm like, I got that aha moment about the depth of his love for me. Yes. That really did, I totally relate, of how it really shifted my perspective when I went back into the Word. Absolutely. That's good. You know, that's one thing I hope that anyone that ever sees these, hears these,
• 7:08
  is that you're drawn by the Holy Spirit to get to know him better. Because no matter how well you know him, there's more. We're never going to get bored knowing Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit. And so I pray that for each of us, we stay hungry to say, Lord, give me greater revelation of what your word is. So we see God manifest his great love to us because he gave his only son, Jesus, and Jesus loved us so much. He willingly went to the cross and gave his life for us.
• 7:36
  So that we can have that eternal life and have that connection. So now he's in me. His spirit's in me. I'm the temple of the Holy Spirit. So how do I walk this love walk out? Because I see so many times people have been hurt. There's things that they're like, how do I love that one? Or I've seen many times people have a hard time loving themselves.
• 7:58
  Right. And you can accept God's love, and that's wonderful. But the fact that you're talking about how can you love yourself, because God's perfect, so it's easier you're thinking. And I remember I've talked to people that way. I'm like, how can you turn around and look in the mirror and say, I love that person with all its fallacies? And it really does take the Holy Spirit helping us.
• 8:21
  Absolutely. Absolutely. You've got to lean on him and let him help you. And then you. So let's look at this passage in Second Timothy, another one of my favorites. I think a lot of times we've used this verse and we've quoted this verse because we like the part about he's not giving us a spirit of fear, which is awesome.
• 8:39
  So 2 Timothy 1, 7, for God has not given us a spirit of fear. Thank you, Lord. But he does tell us what he has given us. But a power and of love and of a sound mind. Amplified says a sound, secure mind that you're able, we have that ability to take those thoughts. As Corinthians says, take those thoughts captive. So God's not given us a spirit of fear, but we have one of power.
• 9:09
  And of love. Oh, so that means his love is in me. And, you know, there have been times that he had to remind me of that. You know, where you're a little challenged with someone, your love walk's being challenged. And it's like the Holy Spirit will say, but my love's in you. And I'm like...
• 9:26
  Where is it? Well, the flash, you're like, okay, who wins? My flash or I yield to the Lord? And you know, there are times when there are people in our lives where I've had to say to the Lord, I'm like, honestly, is, Lord, you know this person. I know you really love them.
• 9:46
  You created them. I don't even know how. But I'm like, then you have to change me and my heart or my attitude if there's been a conflict. So I will see them through your eyes and be able to love them. Because I'm like, it's not in myself. When you talk about the Spirit of God helping, He was in you to love.
• 10:06
  we have to yield to allowing him to take over. So even if we have the Lord, we have to constantly yield to our dying to ourself. Yeah, it's a choice. He allows it because that's probably one of the biggest criticisms of Christianity is about our lack of love.
• 10:24
  Or our judgment. I mean, the secular world judges us by our lack of love. Yeah. We're supposed to know Christians by their love. Well, sometimes that's a little hard there. So it's an absolute choice. He's not giving me that spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, love, and a sound mind. But I have the choice. I have to take responsibility whether I'm going to yield to that spirit of love.
• 10:48
  That spirit of power, spirit of a sound mind. So we pray you hear this. It is our choice. It is our choice. And we do have to take responsibility and walk in that. And I'm going to tell you, the more you yield to the spirit of God, the spirit of truth, the easier it gets. So if you've been someone who feels like you've had to be self-sufficient, self-reliant, you're going to have to.
• 11:13
  grow in that a little bit of where you're not leaning on the arm of the flesh, but you're leaning on his. And so- That is possible. Absolutely. And I think we just want to let you know that if you just try it one time, it will get easier because just like she's saying, Debbie has made a total truth.
• 11:33
  He really does help when we do that yielding. The first time we do it and recognize often in the scripture it talks about trusting God. So it's if I yield to you, God, that we can trust that he's going to give us that spirit of love. Yes.
• 11:48
  And I was just telling Cheryl this just a little bit before we came on the air. I felt in my own life there were times that if I feel like I'm trying to be self-reliant or I'm trying to figure these things out, I heard the Lord just kind of say, Are you trusting me? Well, so for me, when I truly live in the revelation of his love,
• 12:10
  I completely trust because I know Father God, Daddy God has my best interest in mind. It's when I maybe need a greater revelation at that moment that I start to look back thinking, I've got to take care of this.
• 12:25
  But I try so many times to look back and think about my dad. And when my dad gave me his word on something, I didn't come back and ask him again. I didn't have to question him. I didn't have to go, don't forget, don't forget, don't forget, Daddy. I knew my dad was a man of his word. And his yes was yes and his no was no. And I knew it was as good as done when Daddy said, I'm going to take care of this.
• 12:48
  how much more my heavenly father who loves me more than any earthly father can. So I try to say, Holy Spirit, let me live in that revelation. But there's not one part of my life that you're not seeing. And there's not one part of my life that you don't care about. And when I yield it to you and I keep it in your hands, then you can do whatever's needed to help me take care of it.
• 13:10
  So good. Yes. Yes. So that was Second Timothy 1 7. And so we're going to talk about his love and about you know, I know love walks have been tested and time permits. We're going to go there. But I want you to look in the Gospel of John and let's that we were in first John and then we had Second Timothy. But let's look in the Gospel of John. And let's look at Chapter 15, John 15. And I'm going to.
• 13:37
  Look at verses and we'll begin with verse nine. So in John 15, verse nine says, as the father loved me, I also have loved you.
• 13:50
  Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I've spoken to you. Why? That my joy, this is verse 11, that my joy may remain in you and that your joy may be full. That's good.
• 14:14
  So much good stuff in here. So the fathers love me as I've also loved you. So he's telling us, abide in my love. And if you keep my commandments, you abide in my love. So if means what? There's a condition there. There's a condition. Exactly. Back to our responsibility. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love.
• 14:36
  just as I've kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. We quote the scripture and we say that Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. But is he? Do we really allow him to lead us and guide us? And I think when we walk, we really just make the choice.
• 14:52
  That my life is not my own. I've been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ. I'm giving every part of him to me. And for me personally, that's a daily surrender. I really believe that's what it means to pick up my cross daily. Is that God, this is a beautiful day you've made. But.
• 15:09
  I'm giving this to you. I'm thankful for the life you've given me. I have plans. I've got a planner and I've got all my one, two, threes. But you can adjust my day as needed. It's yours. And lead me and guide me that I walk out your order steps today.
• 15:26
  Well, then that's a surrender. So say I have a challenging moment with somebody and my love walk is challenged. I've already pre surrendered my day. I've already said, God, I'm going to let you be Lord of my life. So the spirit of God's going to check me on that. Because he's like, hello, remember you gave me today. Now, OK, Lord, let that spirit of love come up in me.
• 15:50
  That's me walking out and fulfilling his commandment, that I'm preferring God's plan and God's way over me.
• 15:57
  And I think sometimes for some of us that maybe we've been in our Christian walk for a lot of years without giving the numbers. Sometimes we can talk in ways that it just seems so simple, like that's just who we are. But Cheryl and I can tell you, we didn't start that way. You know, all of us had to grow and be transformed and allow this process of God's love growing in us and his spirit.
• 16:21
  where we choose to yield to it, that it is easier, but we still have to make those choices. Every day. And you're right. When you said yield every day, I'm like, I yield multiple times a day. Because there's moments like, hmm, well. And you know, there's the other thing. You all of a sudden allow the flesh to rise up. You're like...
• 16:41
  That's wrong. And we have that opportunity. There's where the grace and mercy of God prompts us that we need to bring it back down to the place where I surrender. And that's where even in the emotional and the things that can happen in our life, you literally don't have to destroy a day. You can really have a moment where you pause, take a deep breath. If that means you even have to leave a room, I've had to do that, is leave a room and regroup.
• 17:06
  I'm like, and have an excuse. And prepare yourself, especially, I was just reading Proverbs, which is so many nuggets. But even it talks about how foolish is the man who has anger and can't control that temper, and how important it is for us to be able to control our behavior, because really,
• 17:22
  We can't control our behavior. It's just, if do we choose to. So it's more of, if we only understood, you're really saying if, God's telling us if, is the condition is on you. Yes. It's all about what you're going to do. And if we will choose to do what he knows is best for us, there is a blessing that comes. And I don't think we really recognize is our obedience is key to the blessings of God.
• 17:47
  And his choice is he wants to fulfill and to give us the desires of a heart that line up with his will. Yes. But if you will learn there is a blessing, even just there's a feeling that comes over when you're like, I yielded to God. And knowing the difference when I allowed God to, I yield to him and he flows with me, through me.
• 18:11
  And I'm able to love someone that only Jesus knew how to love them. And not to say that people probably think that towards me. I'm like, okay, like we all have our stuff. But it's so much easier. And I think it's just reminding ourselves, like, why don't I do that more? Because the blessings that come in just his, we give him pleasure when we are obedient to him. He's looking for obedience over sacrifice. Yes, absolutely.
• 18:37
  So it's such. Yes, there's such a blessing. And he says, again, in verse 11, these things I've spoken to you. Why? Why is he telling us to do this? That my joy may remain in you and that your joy may be full. So God's plan is not for us to be all under our circumstances and upset. He's wanting us to live a joy filled life. That's spiritual. Joy is not based upon natural circumstances.
• 19:03
  You know, joy, we say the joy of the Lord is our strength. I mean, his joy, it's spirit. It's more than, you know, happy is a new pair of shoes. But joy. Very temporary. There's a difference. One is an emotion that's going to go up like this. Yes.
• 19:19
  versus up and down like a yo-yo where the joy, it's consistent and not based on our circumstances. Absolutely. And what a great, it's like there's peace that comes with that joy. Absolutely. So that's that great joy. And he says he's wanting it to remain in you and he's wanting it to be full. So there's a lot that we can say in looking at this. And I think ultimately we can go back and if time permits, we'll look at, go through the scriptures in first Corinthians. But I feel like we should go to
• 19:48
  Ephesians chapter three, because when I began to walk in this, and I took you back to my story of where I was at the kitchen table with my mom, and she said, I really think you need a greater revelation of God's love. And so she had a little mini book by one of my favorite authors and ministers, Joyce Meyer. And she gave me that little book and she said, I want you to go back to Ephesians. And there's great prayers in Ephesians chapter one, but in Ephesians chapter three, this prayer is really this revelation for God's love.
• 20:17
  So, of course, I'm probably going to read this out of the Amplified. But if you want to turn to Ephesians chapter 3, and I'm going to start with verse 16. May he grant you out of the rich treasury of his glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the Holy Spirit. Amplified says himself in dwelling in your innermost being and personality.
• 20:45
  May Christ, through your faith, actually dwell, settle down, abide, make his permanent home in your hearts. And may you, and I personalize these prayers, and may I, Debbie, be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love.
• 21:05
  Lord, I pray that you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints, God's devoted people, the experience of that love. And here's what I love. What is the breadth and the length and the height and the depth of it? That you may really, that Debbie may really come to know practically through experience for myself, the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge without experience.
• 21:33
  but that I may be filled through all of my being into all the fullness of God and may have the richest measure of the divine presence and become a body that is holy, W-H-O-L-L-Y, wholly filled and flooded with God himself.
• 21:49
  And then it goes on now to him who and by the action of his power that is at work within us, it's his work within us, is able to carry out his purpose and do super abundantly far over and above all that we could even dare ask or think infinitely beyond. Amplified says our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes or dreams. That's so good.
• 22:13
  So I don't know. I just get excited reading those particular passages. But Lord, let me know a body wholly filled that I would know the height and the depth and the breadth and the length of your great love.
• 22:28
  So honestly, when I sat down and I started to read this, I remember I can still see myself years ago sitting there going, Okay, God, I thought I knew how much you love me, but you're showing me that I need a greater revelation of this. So, Lord, reveal yourself to me. And, you know, Cheryl, that's how simple it is, sitting there going, God, I really want to know you.
• 22:52
  I know about you. I have a certain level of experience with you, but I want to know you. I want to personally, intimately know you. And what happens is you're giving God complete access to every part of you. Now, it's real easy to say, well, doesn't God have that? No.
• 23:09
  Not without your permission. That's the great thing about God. We're not little puppets on a string that he just controls. He is a complete gentleman of saying, you've got to open your heart. You've got to be yielded to me. You get the choice to say, God, I want all of you or not. And when you do, that love will be manifested.
• 23:30
  No, that's so powerful because I think when you're talking about you getting the revelation, it just prompted me a few years ago. There was a moment, an aha moment of realizing...
• 23:43
  I had some issues within myself that I just, like you said, it's hard to love yourself or it's easier to know that God loves you, get that revelation, but sometimes to now love yourself because it's really part of what God's trying to do. Yes. Because if he's wanting to share his glory within us so that we reflect him, so that we are example to other people to be drawn to him.
• 24:05
  then he has to have all of us. And so he begins to, over time, he'll begin to work on every part of our life to make sure we become whole. So whatever we're lacking, he begins to reveal that. And I remember a few years ago, I was in my quiet time in my coffee bar, and I was just like reading about something about love, and I'm like...
• 24:25
  I just don't think that I have that in myself. I'm like, God, I know you love me. That's not a question. I've known that. I've treasured that. But then the other aspect of love is,
• 24:38
  is being able to accept it for ourselves or within ourselves. And I began to study and just look at everything about the love of God. And it's interesting, when I did that, it was like new treasure of like that God would help me, the way you love me, God, that you would help me now.
• 24:58
  to see through your eyes because I don't like what I see because I would still see my flesh. And as much as we tried to every day yield to the Lord, get our lives right before the Lord, my personality is like I have no tolerance for myself. I'm like, I'm not perfect. I know I'm not, but yet God, you told us to be perfect. So how in the world do we do that?
• 25:20
  But I think it's that constant we have to trust him and yield to him so that he can fill us with everything we're desiring. And that week was such an incredible time. I went to go visit a family member, went to their church, and the exact same scriptures I was meditating on that week all sent up on the screen were boom, boom, boom. I'm like, I think, God, you have a message for me. I think he did. Because it was that experience of not only...
• 25:46
  knowing his love, but also now receiving it to where I can love myself in a healthy way. Because today we're all about selfie, really selfish is what we should say. And I think there is a balance that we have to understand, that we have to have an understanding of God's love and why he wants us to be able to help to love ourselves because we're supposed to love others. Love our neighbor as we love ourselves.
• 26:11
  So we have to have that. And maybe you can speak into that, Debbie. What is the right godly perspective? So we don't get that. We go from one pendulum to another where we hate ourselves or don't like ourselves to where we have to love yourself because you can't love your neighbors if we don't. So I've got to receive God's love and then love me like you're talking about so that I can love my neighbor as I love myself. So if I have a...
• 26:34
  a self hate, or I'm not fully embracing of who I am. Now that doesn't mean that I have no flaws or that it's just perfection, but there's this part where there's a lot of people can receive God's love. Oh, I love you, but they're truly not loving God or loving people in the, in the way that God intended if they don't have that love. And maybe sometimes it's because they made a really bad decision and now they've just never been able to forgive themselves.
• 27:02
  I find sometimes people almost feel like they have to do some type of penance or work to justify their bad behavior. And maybe that's part of how we raise kids, you know, where, okay, you don't do the right thing. There is a consequence for that choice. But we have to recognize that when Jesus went to the cross and the blood that he shed, it was a finished work. I'm not going to add to it by beating myself up any.
• 27:30
  And I'm only hindering God doing what he wants to do in me and through me towards others if I stay blocked there. And I think that's really the trick or the strategy, the enemy. I can keep them diverted. Now, they're not going to walk in the fullness of what God had for them. And I want to say to all of us, I believe we're living exciting in times.
• 27:52
  And it's so essential that we really hear God, know where we're supposed to be in our place in the body of Christ and fulfill that. So now I'm gonna receive his love. And the balance of that is, know this, the Holy Spirit is the perfect counselor, and he's gonna help you keep that balance. It's not about being self-indulgent. It's not about me, because really when you love you, and it's the love of God that's flowing through, it so overflows you wanna love others.
• 28:21
  And that's where it goes to other people that you don't think of, what do I want first? How can I be a blessing to them? How can I express God's love to them? And that's when you truly receive his love. And I love me because I know God's going to take care of me. I don't have to take care of me. I don't have to make sure that I get taken care of first. As long as I'm giving to others, he's going to always make sure that my needs are taken care of.
• 28:45
  And that's that generous, blessed life. You know, there's people that are givers, and then there's people that are not, that are on the stingy side. And I've always purposed to say, I want to be a giver. I want to be someone who's not looking to get, but let his love flow through me so that I can give. That's so good. Well, I would love if you just talk to our listeners and just impart into them your closing thoughts of just encouraging them in the love of God and where they are today today.
• 29:16
  A goal of where are you going to be in the days ahead? Well, God loves you. God loves you so much. He sent his only son and Jesus loved you so much. He gave his life for you. So I pray today that you really just open your heart and say, Lord, fill me with that love or I am a believer. So, Lord, help me stir that love up. And I would go back and I would read the Ephesians 3.
• 29:39
  prayer again, beginning with verse 16, God revealed to me your love that I would know that truly the breadth, the length, the height and the depth of it, that I would be a body wholly filled with your power and your presence. But,
• 29:54
  by experience for myself. This isn't something I'm reading about, but Lord, that I will live in that reality of that revelation. And then stop and just listen to him. He's going to prompt you by this still small voice of his spirit in you. Maybe it's, hey, you know what? You ought to take them out to dinner. You ought to buy their lunch.
• 30:14
  You ought to write a note to so-and-so and tell them how thankful you are. Look for those ways. Be open and sensitive to hear his voice in you. Know if you're hearing something to do generous or nice or good, it's him. The enemy's not going to tell you to go do those things. So it's going to be God and just act upon it. And the more you act upon it, the easier it gets and the more sensitive you'll become to his voice. And watch and see what God will do as you receive his revelation of how much he loves you
• 30:43
  You're only going to want to love your neighbor in that generous way also. Well, we were talking about the love of God, and there are so many more things that the scripture talks about that we are going to do an extension so we can dive into more of those wonderful scriptures. Yes, yes. So we've talked about his love. We've talked about receiving the revelation of his love.
• 31:11
  So we know that it comes from him. We know that it's his love is in us. Second Timothy tells us. And really, again, want to reiterate the revelation that God will give you by really meditating on the Ephesians prayers in both of them. But chapter three and allowing God, I mean, really asking the Holy Spirit, give me revelation of this, Lord. I really want to be what your scripture says. This body, holy, W-H-O-L-L-Y.
• 31:39
  wholly filled and flooded with God himself. Wow, that's powerful if you really pause to think that for him, the God of the universe created all things would dwell within us.
• 31:51
  fill every part of us. Yes. And I would rather have him so much more than my flesh. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think sometimes, you know, we read over scriptures that I'm the righteousness of God in Christ. Greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world. But I believe all of those have a greater revelation when you live in the revelation of God's love for you. And when you live in the revelation of God's love for you, your trust level goes to another level.
• 32:18
  Because you know how much the father loves me. And so when he loves me, now I can love me. I can receive his love, love myself. And now I can love others as he wants me to love him. And so we're going to look at some of those scriptures because sometimes we go, it's always good to see where my love walk is. Because I think we can sometimes get in a pattern.
• 32:43
  That's maybe a little more carnal or fleshy than it needs to be. And so let's turn to Romans chapter 12. Okay. Romans chapter 12 in verse 16 says, live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, snobbish, high minded, exclusive, but readily adjust yourself to people, things and give yourselves to humble tasks.
• 33:09
  That one right there going, what? That humble task. Give yourself to humble task. Never overestimate yourself or be wise in your own conceits. Repay no one evil for evil. But take thought of what is honest and proper and noble, aiming to be above reproach in the sight of everyone. And if possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
• 33:37
  Now, that last little line is a real kicker there. And as I read this verse, I, again, these verses that I'm sharing really come from Revelation where God was doing something in my own life. And I was walking through a time that was really challenging with a person that was in my life. And I always thought I had an awesome love walk.
• 34:01
  Until and I thought no, I mean, I'm like, yes, and I thought I love everyone. Oh, I'm this is not a big deal until and I was convicted because I knew That my thoughts weren't where they needed to be My emotion was not where it needed to be and so I actually was studying out I was teaching the class at Victory College on renewing the mind for
• 34:23
  And so I'm going back to my key passages in Romans 12, 1 and 2 about allowing the word to, you know, for us to be transformed and know is good and perfect, pleasing well. And I just felt led to just continue reading through the chapter and just to meditate on all of chapter 12 of Romans. And that's where I began to go through these live in harmony with one another.
• 34:45
  Do not be haughty, high minded, readily adjust yourself. Give yourself to humble tasks. Never overestimate yourself or be wise in your own conceits. Don't ever repay evil for evil. We know God's our vindicator. But when it came to the part of if possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
• 35:11
  And the spirit of God began to speak to me and I began to see that it was my responsibility. Because a lot of times what happens when someone has hurt us and we feel we're justified in our anger. I mean, you can still be angry and sin not the word says, but I'm justified in the way that I feel. Then what the enemy does is he uses that hurt.
• 35:32
  to build a, like a stone in your heart that will ultimately hold out God and hold out other people. And so I knew that I needed to deal with it. And I knew that as far as it depended upon me, I was to live at peace. And so again, I had to make the choice. I had to take responsibility to say, okay, God, this isn't about them. This isn't about what they said or didn't say. This isn't about how they treat me.
• 35:59
  That's between you and them. This is about you and me. And for me to really stay in an open heart with God, stand up before the students and minister or even as we travel or, you know, at my church, I'm going to have I'm choosing. I'm not going to have to. I get to. I'm going to choose to hear your word and walk in it.
• 36:21
  And so I'm going to choose to live at peace and I'm not going to repay evil. But Lord, what are your steps for me? You know, the scripture talks about praying for those who, you know, use you or. Yeah. And so I was like, OK, Lord, I'm going to pray for this person.
• 36:38
  And I'm not going to pray bad things. I'm going to pray good things. Because, you know, there's a part of you, oh, Lord, get them. Oh, Lord, convict them. That's where you're like David saying, revenge is mine. You know, God will take them out. You're like, yes, God. But, yeah, you're like, I guess that's not the scripture we should be using at that point. Yeah, because pray for those who despitefully use you is what the scripture actually says. So it's like I had to make, again, a choice to say, God, that means you've empowered me. And we looked at those scriptures. The greater one is in me, that I have a spirit of power and I have a spirit of love. Amen.
• 37:08
  Lord, help me to respond according to your word, not react. Help me to respond according to your word and let me live at peace with that person. Okay, so I just want to highlight that for all of us right now is we can do this. You're literally, you're changing the trajectory of where you want to go. You know, in our lives, if we want to truly reflect who God is in our lives,
• 37:36
  She just gave us the nugget of that she literally, it's like you're talking to yourself and you're making a choice, like I choose. And I believe, though, that even at that, you can do it at that moment, but the next day you're going to have to do it again. Yeah. And you're going to have to do it again. And I think, too, when you talk about, too, when someone has hurt you,
• 37:53
  When you were speaking about that, you know, there's a scripture that talks about that. If we allow that to fester within us, the scripture reminds us, though, that it will lead to bitterness. The root of bitterness, when it begins to go deeper and deeper, it holds on to us. That's where the enemy holds on strong. It becomes so much harder for us to be able to overcome that, even with God, because we allowed it to go deep. And it harms us. It does more harm to us than the other person. Yeah.
• 38:23
  And I think that's where we, it's so important about speaking the word back over your life, what you just did, making the choice. And I like how you're saying it because you're really not looking at that person, but you're looking about reflecting, okay, what is it that I need to do? No matter who's in front of me.
• 38:41
  between me and God, Lord, this is what you're telling me I have to do, and yielding to his God's way and purpose and plan for me, because then you kind of can, like, maybe you can fuzz it over, like, okay, I don't really see them anymore. I see the love of God somehow is coming over me, through me, in me. Glory to God. I think you could probably even shock somebody, right? I mean, seriously, if you think about somebody, this most unlovely person, you know, because we're in a world that is more...
• 39:11
  quick to hate and create arguments, which I read in the scriptures this morning, Proverbs, about don't be a fool and get into argumentative things because God's wanted us to be quiet.
• 39:24
  and allow our silence to speak. And I'm like, oh, that's hard sometimes because the way the world is, you want to fight back. But again, I think it's allowing yourself to go back to yielding to what God has for us and letting him flow through us. God really changed my heart in this. I remember another person who was kind of in the scenario, whatever, I remember one day, they just said, how do you do this? And I just sat back and I said, you know,
• 39:53
  Because of that opportunity, it is perspective. I said, it took me to a whole nother level in my love walk that I wouldn't have without that challenge. But I was surrendered to the Lord and I wanted to grow in him. And that doesn't mean that I didn't have moments where I was now, Lord, let me tell you, you know, but it was like, but I always go back and I've made that decision. I'm going to live by the word of God.
• 40:17
  And so this trumps my feelings. This trumps my thoughts. This trumps my life experience. God gave me this beautiful love letter to guide my life. And this word is alive. So I'm going to take this word and I'm going to live it. And he doesn't put it in here and tells me,
• 40:36
  Okay. I hope you can do this. No. If he tells us to do it, then he empowers us to do it. He anoints us to do it. He expects us to do it. So this isn't an option for me because I'm fully surrendered. Okay. So I'm going to live out what he tells for me to do. And I'm going to live at peace. And I just began to pray, God, show me, you know, show me how to respond according to you. Okay.
• 40:59
  I began to pray for this person. And the more I prayed for this person, the easier it got. And then I began to see this person through different eyes. No longer it was through my eyes of hurt or disappointment or anger. I began to see this person through eyes of compassion. And I began to see what this person didn't have in their life and why they probably reacted or lived the way they did or why they were mean, if you want to call it, towards me.
• 41:29
  Because hurt people, we said this over again, hurt people. And so there was all this part that the enemy was using, and I was just the part that they were using to attack. But we wrestle not against flesh and blood. And so you have to recognize that. That's good, though. I don't think we understand each other's back story.
• 41:49
  And I think sometimes it might help you when you need that edge of like, I really can't do it, is if we only knew on the other side of what their background story is, why it's so difficult to be who they are. Yeah. It gives us a little bit more grace to help us to make the pushover to love them as God would have us to.
• 42:07
  I'm the kind of person that I would never purposely try to be mean or to hurt anyone. That's just not who I am or would ever want to be. But if someone was ever upset with me or misunderstood, if I gave them reason,
• 42:22
  it's a little bit easier to digest or to go, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see you, or I overreacted, or I was in business mode, or maybe it hurt your feelings. I would never purposely do it, but if there was a little something there I could get it. When there's nothing, and you're just that way, then it's really harder for me.
• 42:38
  But when I took it back to the word, it was like whether it was justified or not, whether there was an opportunity or not. I so wanted to live my life that if when if this person one day in heaven could never look back and say, well, she did this or she didn't do this. I so want to respond to people in a way.
• 42:57
  that they don't have anything to say, well, I might have if, you know, or whatever. And so that's kind of like my own little standard of just saying, God, I so want to exemplify you. Well, if I'm gonna exemplify him, I'm going to have to know what his love is really like. Because a lot of times we define love by what our life experience has been or what somebody's told us it is. So let's go to 1 Corinthians 13.
• 43:22
  in our last few minutes together. And let's look at really what that agape, God kind of love is. Love endures. This God kind of love endures long. And it is patient. And it is kind.
• 43:38
  It never loved this love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy. It's not boastful or vainglorious. It does not display itself haughtily. It's not conceited, arrogant or inflated with pride.
• 43:57
  It is not rude or unmannerly, and it does not act unbecomingly. Love, God's love in us, does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking. It is not touchy or fretful or resentful. And this part always sticks out to me. It takes no account of the evil done to it, or it pays no attention to a suffered wrong.
• 44:23
  Verse six, it does not rejoice in injustice and unrighteousness, but it rejoices when right and truth prevail. Love bears up under anything and everything that comes. It is ever ready to believe the best of every person. Its hopes are failess under all circumstances, and it endures everything without weakening.
• 44:47
  Verse 8, love, God's love never fails. Amplified said it never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end. His love will never fail. Amen. Wow.
• 45:02
  Yes. That's helpful. Yeah. So there's a lot of things. So again, you know, we talked about going back to Ephesians chapter three and reading and meditating on that. As pastors of a church here in Victory or a part of the pastoral team, my husband and I, which I think it's no secret, we're a part of Victory Church. But in counseling, you know, many times I'll go, okay, I need you to go back to 1 Corinthians 13.
• 45:26
  And I want you to see your spouse through these words. Okay. And this isn't romantic love. This is agape love. So we should have this for our brothers and sisters, but we'll many times do this where we'll say, okay, let's go back. Let's read it. Let's meditate on it. Let's see that person that you were struggling with, even if it's a spouse through these eyes and say, okay, Lord, I'm going to stir up the spirit of love. I'm going to allow your agape to flow through me. And I am going to choose to believe the best.
• 45:54
  I'm going to choose to bear under this. I'm going to choose to be patient and kind. I'm going to endure because I'm allowing your love to flow through me. And I'm now going to make choices that are for the benefit of our marriage or for the benefit of this person and not just see it for me.
• 46:11
  No, just the way you're saying it is she's personalizing. Debbie is personalizing the prayer of the scripture. And that becomes really a powerful tool for us to overcome what we may have been struggling with. Because then we begin to change our thought process to how God sees them and how he wants us to see each other. Because what does it feel like to be loved by each other?
• 46:33
  when we know that we're accepted and loved the way God has loved us. And the idea is kind of shocking when we can love one another the way he's telling us, that it really creates a bond, especially when you're talking about with spouses. I remember back in the days of, you know, being a dorm director, I learned from the one before that. Mine was Jane Sweet, and she said, no one can change roommates until you've been with that roommate for two weeks and you had to pray for each other.
• 47:00
  And I'm like, you know, it literally has to, you know, it's kind of hard to pray for someone. Yeah. I don't like them. I don't like what they do. I don't like their mess. But when you begin, you make the choice because you have, you've been mandated and God's really mandated us. Yeah.
• 47:15
  to that because he knows on the other side where we will benefit. And that's a powerful tool. I think it would be great too. How would you describe to people how to shift gears for someone who is just, they just have a constant struggle. It feels like even if it's in the workplace, it's not like they can get away from that person. How would you speak to them to help to change the atmosphere for them?
• 47:40
  Well, you first have to recognize you are a carrier of God's love and you're a carrier of God's spirit. His power, his love is inside of you. So if Jesus could walk through a city and change the atmosphere that was around you, so can you. So go with it. And I go with it. Fill yourself up. Get in the word. Get in the word.
• 48:00
  You know, pray in the spirit, stir him up on you, go into work, go on. I'm going to be a light for Christ. That doesn't mean you're witnessing all every moment that you speak, but I'm just going to let his love exude out of me. Now I'm allowing his power and his spirit. I'm filling up and making sure I'm overflowing that if I get squeezed, love's going to come out of me, not, you know, something else. So I'm allowing that love. But then now I'm going to pray for those around me.
• 48:27
  It may not even be with words I speak. This is something the Lord has really brought back to me so many times. And, you know, my husband and I still travel in ministry. We're a part of a great church here. And because of that, we oversee, you know, our team and different things. And there's times that I'm like, do I need to say something? And so many times I'm hearing the Holy Spirit on the inside say, just pray about that. Just pray about that first. And as I take it to prayer today,
• 48:55
  As I bring it to him and say, what's your direction? What do we need to do? What's the best here? So many times it's just resolved. I don't even have to say anything. God speaks to them. Something shifts, something changes. Yeah. So the power of prayer is huge. And I think so many times it's like something.
• 49:14
  But we look at, oh, last resort. No, I go to the word. I go to prayer. I get his wisdom. I get his direction. Now, Lord, what's the strategy for my workplace? I want to change the atmosphere. We all have to recognize we plant, we water, we harvest. So with sometimes people, it isn't like an immediate turnaround and I get the harvest. But I might be planting that seed, breaking that hard ground.
• 49:38
  Or I might be the one who's watering that seed. Or I might be the one that's getting to harvest that or bring that in. But trusting God that he can work through me to love them, that they're going to really experience God's love by what I say and what I don't say. You know, turning the other cheek, as we would say, not reacting in anger to when people are trying to provoke you is a huge sign to people of going wrong.
• 50:04
  What is in them that they're not like the world? Because this isn't like the world. The world says, hey, you do good to me, I'll do good to you. But the scripture says, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's the golden rule. So I'm going to plant the seed not because of what you've done to me, because I'm surrendered to God and his work. And God will perform his word through you, and you will see a change. I believe that. That's good. You know, and I want to just...
• 50:31
  bank off of that too is, you know, love is shown in so many different ways. And, you know, sometimes it's just in showing it by serving. And we don't always have to speak because sometimes we've learned in our world is the authenticity is lacking and truth is lacking to where we don't really know where to go. There's no resource where we feel like I can totally trust anyone in any realm and
• 50:56
  We always know we can trust in the Word of God. And one of the things I think is the most powerful tool is when we demonstrate love is how can you love? You know, how you can love is sometimes it's just doing something not with the intention of, like, I want you to acknowledge that I did something nice for you. Not just always giving, giving of yourself, giving of your serving someone makes such a dramatic difference, I believe, because God's desire for us in the body of Christ—
• 51:24
  I don't care what denomination you're coming from, is we, the people of God, are called into this place. And that's why Debbie's been so generous and kind the way she has expressed it. But part of me says, children of God, we've got to get it together. It is time to act now because every time that we are not exemplifying the love of God, we're showing the opposite, which is causing people to walk away from the Lord.
• 51:51
  The only reason why we're here on this earth is to help to be the reflection to lead people to Christ. And that is the nugget we need to go away from. Today, she's given you incredible scriptures that you need to really speak them out. Mm-hmm.
• 52:11
  Speak them and pray them out. If you don't have clear understanding, ask the Holy Spirit. Yes. He will teach you what it means, and he will begin to reveal to you. But watch out. If you ask, he's going to hold you accountable because now you have that nugget of truth, and you've got to yield to the Lord because the benefits on the other side are there. Yeah. So I think, you know, taking love in a different way.
• 52:35
  I mean, extension is loving, serving people. It's releasing and forgiving people. It's letting things go that in the span of eternity, my mom would always say, in the span of eternity,
• 52:47
  What does it really matter? Because sometimes when you're in the heated emotion of something happening, and if you're wrong or something happens, that just plays in my mind, okay, to be able to calm down and not react, because you said respond. So I can get to the place where I can respond is I don't understand them, and I'm just going to consider whatever happens.
• 53:07
  that it's about God, what is it you want to do in me so that I can be that reflection? Because, see, the world would be different. It would. Our world would be different. The body of Christ right now is in a place where it's destroying itself because we are throwing out to the public messages that were meant for us to heal and forgive and to release us.
• 53:30
  within the body of Christ. And when one of us are wounded, one part of our body is wounded, we are all wounded, we're all affected. It's affecting us. And so Debbie's got a powerful message for us today that we, I just really believe and pray into our lives is may the love of God really fill every crevice of our lives so that we become everything that God calls us to be. Yes, holy filled. You know, when you were saying that,
• 53:52
  I just really felt by the spirit. There's somebody out there that you are someone who's, people call you oversensitive. You're always, you know, maybe there's overreactions and there's, you just feel misinterpreted and there's probably some, you know, maybe like an insecurity or an inferiority that's,
• 54:11
  there and you're, you're feeling misunderstood. And I, and I really believe part of it is because you don't live in the revelation of his love. And so it's hitting a hurt place within you. But I believe today that you're going to hear these words and you're going to take the word of God and allow that word to really flood your heart and allow him to heal those places that are wounded. And that allowing him to bring the healing and the restoration, it's going to change your perspective on how you see other people and,
• 54:40
  Most importantly, it's going to change your perspective of how you see yourself because you're going to receive his love. And I believe your life is going to be different and you're going to be a joy-filled person because no longer are you going to constantly be on the defense of how it's affecting you. But you're now going to see it different once he brings healing to your heart.
• 54:58
  That's so good. Well, thank you, Debbie, for sharing. And also, share your website. Yes, BarkerMinistries.org. So my husband and I still travel and minister. We're a part of a great church here in Tulsa. But if you would like us to come to your area, we have a lot of resources out there. You can go to Barker Ministries. That's B-A-R-K-E-R Ministries.org.
• 55:21
  And we would love to pray for you or just be an encouragement or stay connected because we have a lot of things on our website at iRefresh.net where we want to encourage you. Both of these are great resources to be filled with the scripture to really encourage your life to be able to walk out what God's called you to do.