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Lifting the Lamp: Angelic Magick, Thelema, and the Heavenly Voices of Frater Eleftheria · The Occult Rejects

0:02
Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
0:15
Speaker 1: What Welcome back to the occult rejects. Today we are
0:27
Speaker 1: joined by Frader Eltheria, the creator of Lifting the Lamp,
0:31
Speaker 1: a show in spiritual platform dedicated to the serious seeker magic, Kabbalah, tarot, meditation, mysticism, philosophy,
0:40
Speaker 1: hidden religion, consciousness, and the practical work of spiritual transformation.
0:45
Speaker 1: His work sits in that strange and important place where
0:48
Speaker 1: the old Western mystery tradition meets the living questions of
0:51
Speaker 1: the modern world. What is the soul? What is contact?
0:55
Speaker 1: What is revelation? What is the difference between imagination, intelligence,
1:00
Speaker 1: spirit and the deeper architecture of consciousness? Frida Eletharia has
1:05
Speaker 1: spent years walking the path of Western esotericism, with public
1:09
Speaker 1: biographical material describing his background in angelic magic and experience
1:14
Speaker 1: and initiatory orders, including the Oto and the AA that
1:18
Speaker 1: already gives us a lot to talk about, Thelima, the
1:20
Speaker 1: Holy Guardian Angel, ceremonial discipline, spiritual authority, and the difference
1:25
Speaker 1: between reading occult books and actually being changed by a
1:29
Speaker 1: cult practice. But tonight we are going deeper the biography.
1:33
Speaker 1: We are going into the question of angelic intelligence itself.
1:37
Speaker 1: What it means to call, receive, test, interpret, and live
1:42
Speaker 1: with communications that the practitionery experiences as coming from beyond
1:46
Speaker 1: the ordinary mind. His book, The Book of Heavenly Voices,
1:50
Speaker 1: brings that question to the center. The book is presented
1:53
Speaker 1: as an inspired text emerging from a decade of esoteric
1:57
Speaker 1: ritual work from twenty thirteen to twenty twenty three, involving
2:02
Speaker 1: contact with angelic intelligences and the reception of communications from
2:06
Speaker 1: them that raises every serious question a show like this
2:09
Speaker 1: should ask. How does a magician know when contact is real?
2:13
Speaker 1: How do you separate revelation from projection? What safeguards are necessary?
2:17
Speaker 1: What happens to the nervous system, the moral life, and
2:20
Speaker 1: the sense of self when a practitioner spends years opening
2:24
Speaker 1: themselves to non human or superhuman intelligences. So tonight we're
2:28
Speaker 1: not just talking about angels as pretty religious images. We
2:32
Speaker 1: are talking about angels as powers, voices, hierarchies, intelligences, messengers,
2:38
Speaker 1: and possibly as forces that stand at the border between mysticism, magic, psychology,
2:44
Speaker 1: and revelation. We are going to talk about lifting the
2:47
Speaker 1: lamp thelema angelic currents occult experience, spiritual danger, divine law,
2:53
Speaker 1: modern crisis, and the meaning of receiving a book that
2:56
Speaker 1: claims to speak from the heavenly side of things. And
2:59
Speaker 1: before we introduce Frider, let me introduce the other people
3:03
Speaker 1: joining us. We got Judith. What is going on? Judith?
3:06
Speaker 1: How are you? Thank you very much for making.
3:08
Speaker 2: It, Thank you for having me. Hello, everyone, good evening.
3:11
Speaker 2: I look forward to today's discussion and everyone you can
3:16
Speaker 2: find me An on spreaker, YouTube and x as the loan.
3:21
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for coming on. I appreciate it always,
3:24
Speaker 1: love you here. And Ethan my man, Ethan Indigo, one
3:28
Speaker 1: of the most prolific writers I know. What is going on, sir,
3:32
Speaker 1: I appreciate.
3:32
Speaker 3: Appreciate you guys. I always learned so much from the
3:36
Speaker 3: rejects and from the guests. Frider, I look forward to
3:40
Speaker 3: learning from you today as well. Ethan Indigo Smith on
3:44
Speaker 3: all the social media easy to find and new new
3:48
Speaker 3: writing hopefully coming out as frequently as Nick would like
3:53
Speaker 3: to think. And I appreciate everybody.
3:58
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for making Ethan, I appreciate it.
4:01
Speaker 1: And Freder Lotharia. If there was anything I left out
4:04
Speaker 1: in that introduction that you would like to plug, go ahead, please,
4:07
Speaker 1: but please let everybody know what's up with you and
4:10
Speaker 1: where they can find your website.
4:14
Speaker 4: Yeah. Thanks, No, that was a great introduction. Don't have
4:17
Speaker 4: anything else to add, but yeah, if people want to
4:19
Speaker 4: know where to find me, mainly on YouTube, Lifting the
4:23
Speaker 4: Lamp is the name of my YouTube channel, and yeah,
4:26
Speaker 4: go check me out there, go give me a subscribe
4:31
Speaker 4: if you like my content, and on most of my
4:35
Speaker 4: videos these days, there will also be a link to
4:37
Speaker 4: a mailing list in the description because I'm trying to
4:40
Speaker 4: get a bit of independence from YouTube that way. So
4:43
Speaker 4: that's the main kind of platforms, the main forms of
4:46
Speaker 4: communication that I have.
4:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, thank you, and I do want for the
4:51
Speaker 1: people listening, we do have a lot of because a
4:54
Speaker 1: shorty kind of start off with conspiracy really for a
4:57
Speaker 1: lot of the conspiracy esque type of listeners, I would
5:01
Speaker 1: suggest to go check out his channel too, because he
5:03
Speaker 1: does kind of like teeter into i'd say, topics that
5:06
Speaker 1: are kind of like that, and he gets into UFO's UAPs,
5:09
Speaker 1: and I know we do have some listeners interested in that.
5:12
Speaker 1: So there's a chance to go here from another occultist
5:15
Speaker 1: on those type of topics, and he's done work with
5:17
Speaker 1: one of our show favorites. Everybody loves Fred RC. They've
5:20
Speaker 1: don't work together, so go check out that show too
5:22
Speaker 1: if you've got a chance. Right again, thank you so
5:26
Speaker 1: much for coming on. It's really it's awesome to get
5:28
Speaker 1: you on. I was really really happy to be able
5:30
Speaker 1: to have a discussion with you. For myself, this is
5:34
Speaker 1: like kind of like it's an excuse I'm going to
5:36
Speaker 1: say for the listeners, but really for myself, could you
5:39
Speaker 1: explain what your name even means?
5:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's a magical name. So people that are
5:47
Speaker 4: involved in some kind of like esoteric order will often
5:51
Speaker 4: take a new name to represent the magical path. And
5:58
Speaker 4: so it's for the Frata is just brother brother this
6:02
Speaker 4: or brother that, and then the standard form for you know,
6:06
Speaker 4: a male magical name, and then left Theoria is the
6:10
Speaker 4: name that I chose as like, you know, to represent
6:16
Speaker 4: that that aspiration. And it's not my first magical name,
6:22
Speaker 4: but I yeah, I chose it based on a series
6:27
Speaker 4: of synchronicities in the end as well as kind of
6:30
Speaker 4: messing around with Greek gematria. So so basically I wanted
6:35
Speaker 4: a new magical name which talked about the you know,
6:40
Speaker 4: distilled down the key principle that I wanted to live for,
6:45
Speaker 4: which was freedom, and then trying to alter that to
6:50
Speaker 4: give it a bit more numeral numerological significance. And so
6:55
Speaker 4: what I did was I took the I took the
6:57
Speaker 4: word lef theory, which means was freedom or liberty, and
7:02
Speaker 4: then I substituted one of the letters. I took out
7:08
Speaker 4: an upsilon, which is like a U shape, and put
7:11
Speaker 4: in a fee, which is kind of like the circle
7:13
Speaker 4: with the line through it, to try and give it
7:17
Speaker 4: a bit more of a to get it closer to
7:21
Speaker 4: the idea. I was trying to communicate at different levels.
7:27
Speaker 4: But then I decided that I changed my mind. I
7:30
Speaker 4: didn't really want to use that as a name anymore,
7:32
Speaker 4: so I kind of put it on ice. And then
7:35
Speaker 4: I was just randomly searching the internet, doing a deep
7:37
Speaker 4: dive on various topics, and I found and still from
7:44
Speaker 4: what is supposedly footage of the Roswell incident and some
7:48
Speaker 4: of the materials they recovered from the crash, and one
7:51
Speaker 4: of the materials is this kind of metallic bar with
7:55
Speaker 4: this alien language on it, and people actually realized it's
7:59
Speaker 4: a stylized form of Greek and it says the word elephtheria,
8:04
Speaker 4: but the way that it's spelled is the is the
8:07
Speaker 4: novel spelling that I had come up with. So when
8:11
Speaker 4: I saw that, and I haven't seen it anywhere else
8:14
Speaker 4: except there, So when I saw that, I knew, Okay,
8:17
Speaker 4: the universe is telling me something. I need to accept
8:21
Speaker 4: this as my new magical name, and that's why I
8:25
Speaker 4: call myself that. And at the time, I didn't have
8:28
Speaker 4: that much of an interest in UFOs or uap, And
8:31
Speaker 4: of course now in the last year, it's become a
8:34
Speaker 4: huge part of the work that I do, and I've
8:38
Speaker 4: kind of been dragged into that conversation because I've done
8:42
Speaker 4: so much work with angels and apparently there are people
8:45
Speaker 4: out there who think that it's angels behind the phenomenon.
8:48
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you. I appreciate you explaining that. That's awesome.
8:57
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had anybody really explain the
8:59
Speaker 1: name before. M I guess kind of did anybody have
9:06
Speaker 1: any questions Ethan or Judith?
9:09
Speaker 3: Well, that's an amazing coincidence that you happened to see that.
9:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is.
9:15
Speaker 3: I've heard of there being other Greek in one format
9:19
Speaker 3: or another on other UFOs or U I P S.
9:24
Speaker 3: I wonder if you've seen that, And I was going
9:27
Speaker 3: to ask too, if you, being that, you've I assume
9:31
Speaker 3: practiced different meditations relative to making contact with different spirits.
9:36
Speaker 4: I wonder if you've also.
9:39
Speaker 3: Experienced or practiced the CE five meditation or for or
9:44
Speaker 3: the meditation that one might contact the U I P S.
9:49
Speaker 3: And if you've noticed that if you do practice both
9:51
Speaker 3: of those, what you might notice different.
9:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, I I have indeed practice C five. It's yeah,
10:00
Speaker 4: once again, something I didn't go looking for it, kind
10:02
Speaker 4: of got sent down, you know, a rabbit hole and
10:07
Speaker 4: found it. But for me see IF five. Yeah, I mean,
10:14
Speaker 4: people describe it as a ritual, and there are ritualistic
10:17
Speaker 4: elements to it, like you do a meditation and stuff,
10:21
Speaker 4: but it seems to be much more like a scientific
10:24
Speaker 4: procedure at the same time, like there's there's not all
10:27
Speaker 4: of the symbolic kind of psychodrama of an occult ritual.
10:32
Speaker 4: That's kind of the main difference. But see five. Up
10:38
Speaker 4: until very recently, actually see five was one of the well,
10:42
Speaker 4: was the only practice that I had done where something
10:48
Speaker 4: had physically appeared as a result of me doing it,
10:52
Speaker 4: and it's exactly it's exactly what other people describe. It's,
10:56
Speaker 4: you know, little lights moving along like that and or
11:00
Speaker 4: flashing like that. Yeah, so CE five definitely works. And
11:08
Speaker 4: the great thing about C five is you get to
11:12
Speaker 4: see something for yourself and you don't have to wait
11:14
Speaker 4: for the government to release documents to show you the
11:18
Speaker 4: same thing they've been sitting on for however many years
11:22
Speaker 4: or decades.
11:25
Speaker 3: Very interesting and I I'm into sidetracked to get away
11:28
Speaker 3: from your book. But how is that different from other
11:34
Speaker 3: processes you've experienced before. Utilizes your tool to make you know,
11:40
Speaker 3: make contact with other energies, so to speak.
11:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, yeah, the main difference is it's a lot
11:49
Speaker 4: more ceremonial. There's a lot more kind of symbols and
11:53
Speaker 4: things that are involved. You know, there's the incense, there's
11:59
Speaker 4: the talisman, there's the table with the various names on it,
12:05
Speaker 4: you know, invocations and using very symbolic language, very religious
12:14
Speaker 4: language at times, and so that's that's the main difference there.
12:19
Speaker 4: It's it's like a whole theatrical thing doing one of
12:22
Speaker 4: those rituals.
12:26
Speaker 1: Is that and that's for CE five.
12:31
Speaker 4: Oh No, that's that's for the magical side of things.
12:34
Speaker 4: That's for contact, you know, like spiritual intelligences from a
12:41
Speaker 4: grimoire or something like that. C five is simple meditation
12:45
Speaker 4: and projecting an intent to meet something from the cosmos.
12:51
Speaker 1: No, that's yeah. That's why when I think I don't know,
12:54
Speaker 1: probably because looking at the chat, I wasn't totally paying
12:57
Speaker 1: attention and I was just like wow that I didn't
12:59
Speaker 1: know level that was involved in C five. I thought
13:01
Speaker 1: it was just a meditation, like you just said right there.
13:03
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, Oh, I didn't know Stephen, Greg
13:06
Speaker 1: came up with all that, Uh I did you know?
13:12
Speaker 1: I do want to ask because ask you because it's
13:15
Speaker 1: something that I've said on the show and I even
13:17
Speaker 1: said to you before. I don't know exactly like how
13:22
Speaker 1: to put my finger on it, but because of even
13:25
Speaker 1: experiences that I've had with magic, I do think there
13:29
Speaker 1: is a huge overlap with the occult of magic, and
13:33
Speaker 1: I guess what we're perceiving as UFOs a ufo or
13:36
Speaker 1: UAPs or aliens, Like I do think there is a
13:39
Speaker 1: connection there in New York's and you you think the
13:42
Speaker 1: same thing. Can you maybe give us an idea of
13:45
Speaker 1: like how you see that for you, because it's hard
13:47
Speaker 1: for me to. I just don't. I just have this
13:49
Speaker 1: feeling and it's it's just hard to explain. Yeah.
13:53
Speaker 4: Well, there's some great authors out there like com Diana
14:00
Speaker 4: Pisolka and Jacques Valet who basically talk about how if
14:07
Speaker 4: there's like a continuum of like people reporting experiences of
14:12
Speaker 4: things with like fairies or angels, and then the modern
14:16
Speaker 4: day UFO phenomenon, and it seems to be in some
14:21
Speaker 4: cases at least the same thing happening, but we just
14:26
Speaker 4: attach different labels to the phenomenon based on our culture,
14:32
Speaker 4: you know, we see it through a different lens and
14:36
Speaker 4: we see we have something unexplainable, and we have different
14:39
Speaker 4: ways of interpreting that in a way that makes sense
14:42
Speaker 4: to us. And so already there's this notion that like
14:46
Speaker 4: the orbs in particular, actually the same thing as what
14:50
Speaker 4: would have once been described as angels, and you can
14:53
Speaker 4: see them popping up in history, and so of course
14:58
Speaker 4: in magic in Western esotericism, there are rituals to contact
15:05
Speaker 4: and communicate with angels, and so that's the overlap. And
15:09
Speaker 4: then to bring it home even more since since I've
15:13
Speaker 4: been down this exploring this connection myself after Matthew Brown's
15:19
Speaker 4: Cryptic X post. I've found a lot of anecdotes of
15:24
Speaker 4: people who have done an occult ritual to talk to
15:28
Speaker 4: angels and actually had an orbit appear as a result,
15:33
Speaker 4: or even have used something like a Nochian magic. I
15:38
Speaker 4: know there's one example of Poke Runyon using a Nokian
15:41
Speaker 4: magic to contact, you know, the Galactic Council or whoever
15:45
Speaker 4: they are and communicating with mantond beings. So you know,
15:50
Speaker 4: there's a direct overlap there. Yeah, I mean, I think
15:55
Speaker 4: that there's probably some stuff in the youap bucket that
16:02
Speaker 4: that could be unrelated to anything spiritual or extra dimensional,
16:05
Speaker 4: could be actual aliens, but certainly some of the stuff
16:10
Speaker 4: that people have been seeing has been here for a
16:13
Speaker 4: long time and described by many different names.
16:18
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can see that, Thank you. I have
16:23
Speaker 1: often thought and said on the show, I had wondered
16:25
Speaker 1: if a milchi and magic might be tied to that
16:29
Speaker 1: that experience, you know, or UFOs or UAPs. That's interesting
16:35
Speaker 1: because you said that too. Possibly well, angelic magic in general,
16:39
Speaker 1: and that's something that that your book is about, isn't it.
16:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, it's it's the product of the byproduct of
16:47
Speaker 4: my experiences with with angels as a result of practicing
16:51
Speaker 4: angelic magic.
16:54
Speaker 1: Judith Ethan, did you want to see anything or ask
16:56
Speaker 1: anything before we keep going? I guess first before actually
17:04
Speaker 1: one more question before we get into the book, because
17:05
Speaker 1: I was going to go into the book. Now, how
17:07
Speaker 1: did you This is normally the first question I ask everybody,
17:10
Speaker 1: but with your name, you know, I had to ask that,
17:13
Speaker 1: how did you even find yourself even getting into the
17:15
Speaker 1: occult or whatever you call this ceremonial magic.
17:22
Speaker 4: Well, I had a lot of experiences when I was young,
17:25
Speaker 4: firstly in the form of dreams, which, yeah, well dreams,
17:31
Speaker 4: and then a past life memory when I was thirteen
17:35
Speaker 4: or actually was in pre dynastic Egypt and practicing some
17:40
Speaker 4: kind of spirituality following the teachings that being Anna's Thoth,
17:47
Speaker 4: who I now know is someone who's actually revered in hermeticism.
17:51
Speaker 4: So when I tried to understand that experience in particular,
17:55
Speaker 4: it led me to the Western esoteric tradition, and I
17:59
Speaker 4: started to practice magic and double with magic as a
18:03
Speaker 4: result of that, and then eventually decided to find an
18:07
Speaker 4: organization where I could formally learn the Western esoteric tradition
18:13
Speaker 4: and magic and so that led me to the OTO
18:16
Speaker 4: and eventually the AA, and so I spent many years
18:19
Speaker 4: in those orders learning, being initiated and learning about various
18:26
Speaker 4: different topics, and the rest is history.
18:32
Speaker 1: Thank you. How would you say?
18:37
Speaker 2: How young?
18:37
Speaker 1: Go ahead? Go ahead?
18:39
Speaker 5: How young were you when you joined these groups?
18:41
Speaker 2: Though?
18:43
Speaker 4: I was eighteen when I joined the OTO, I was eighteen,
18:45
Speaker 4: and then it was several years before I came across
18:48
Speaker 4: the AA, actually within the OTO, and then I would
18:52
Speaker 4: have been about twenty seven when I joined the AA formally.
19:00
Speaker 1: Still young for both. M Oh, good for you. Yeah,
19:08
Speaker 1: how was uh? How is that as an experience? Do
19:13
Speaker 1: you think it helped you greatly?
19:17
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, I mean a lot of my learning was
19:19
Speaker 4: quite self directed, and I mean in the AA, it's
19:22
Speaker 4: kind of designed that way. You know, I would read
19:26
Speaker 4: the I would read the books and things from the
19:30
Speaker 4: curriculum and do the practices and then had my superior
19:33
Speaker 4: in the AA is like a sounding board to see
19:36
Speaker 4: if I was on the right track. The OTO does
19:39
Speaker 4: a bit of that, but it's more meant to be
19:41
Speaker 4: like a community, a bit like the Freemasons or something
19:46
Speaker 4: like that. But yeah, I mean I did you know,
19:51
Speaker 4: I did some core rituals with people in the OTO.
19:56
Speaker 4: You know, they not as many as I would have
19:59
Speaker 4: liked or expect did, but you know that there was
20:02
Speaker 4: some You know that there was some learning experiences there
20:05
Speaker 4: for sure. But yeah, a lot of a lot of
20:08
Speaker 4: what I've done has been quite self directed, you know,
20:11
Speaker 4: certainly the big the big milestones of my spiritual life.
20:19
Speaker 3: I wonder, sorry, I wonder, with the idea of self direction,
20:26
Speaker 3: how important do you think? I mean, I understand you
20:30
Speaker 3: probably gained so much knowledge and wisdom from studying with
20:36
Speaker 3: the groups, But I wonder how much independence do you
20:41
Speaker 3: think is required for individuation and your own maybe not
20:47
Speaker 3: group initiation, but your own initiate one zone initiation process.
20:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you do require a large amount of
21:01
Speaker 4: independence for that type of path, I think. Yeah, I
21:06
Speaker 4: mean it is helpful to have people who can be
21:11
Speaker 4: mentors or at least give you a second opinion from
21:15
Speaker 4: a place of more experience, even if you are doing
21:18
Speaker 4: it as an individual. You know, if you do things
21:21
Speaker 4: as an individual, you know, which isn't necessarily for everyone,
21:25
Speaker 4: but if you do, you know, you have to make it.
21:29
Speaker 4: You tend to make a lot more mistakes along the way,
21:32
Speaker 4: and you have to learn from those, you know, because
21:35
Speaker 4: you don't have the benefit of those who went before
21:39
Speaker 4: saying try it this way instead. So it's more trial
21:43
Speaker 4: and error as an individual. But but you know, eventually
21:47
Speaker 4: you get where you're trying to get. Yeah, so does
21:53
Speaker 4: that answer your question?
21:54
Speaker 1: Thank you?
21:55
Speaker 3: Yeah very much, so, thank you.
21:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you have anything you wanted to ask Judith? No,
22:06
Speaker 1: I'm sure with the OT over the AA anything okay. Yeah,
22:13
Speaker 1: and you said you're no longer a member of either one? Correct?
22:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, correct, Yeah, gotcha, gotcha?
22:20
Speaker 1: All right. Yeah, I want to get back to the book.
22:22
Speaker 1: Unless there was anything you wanted to say about that,
22:24
Speaker 1: you know, your experience or anything about the organizations. I mean,
22:28
Speaker 1: we could just move on to your book.
22:33
Speaker 4: No, nothing, really, I'd like to say anything that I
22:38
Speaker 4: could say about the OTO, but let's keep it puzzle.
22:42
Speaker 1: That's fine.
22:43
Speaker 2: I do have a question, and it's the name of
22:45
Speaker 2: your platform before we get into the book, lifting the Lamp.
22:50
Speaker 5: Why that?
22:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, good question. So it's actually from the Bible.
22:58
Speaker 4: It's from the Gospels. It's sort of paraphrasing something that
23:03
Speaker 4: Jesus said to his disciples, which was that if you
23:07
Speaker 4: have a lamp, you shouldn't leave it under the bed
23:10
Speaker 4: or under a bushel, but you should. You should raise
23:14
Speaker 4: it up so that everybody can see it's light. And
23:18
Speaker 4: so basically, and so I took that and I turned
23:21
Speaker 4: it into oh, lifting the Lamp. And the reason why
23:25
Speaker 4: I chose that is because the lesson behind that that parable,
23:34
Speaker 4: if you will, is that if you have spiritual experiences
23:43
Speaker 4: and you have something to offer other people through connection
23:49
Speaker 4: to the spiritual, then you should share that with them
23:52
Speaker 4: instead of, you know, keeping it kind of cloister away
23:57
Speaker 4: where no one else can benefit from it. And so
24:00
Speaker 4: that point in my journey, I had about fourteen years
24:04
Speaker 4: of experience and knowledge to share with people and hadn't
24:09
Speaker 4: done so. And so I made the decision that I
24:12
Speaker 4: needed to start sharing it on that channel. And that's
24:15
Speaker 4: why I chose lifting the Lamp as the title of
24:19
Speaker 4: the channel.
24:23
Speaker 1: I like that, man, that's pretty interesting. Nice to hear that.
24:27
Speaker 2: Also, you could you could also put it together with
24:31
Speaker 2: the hermit cart too on the tower.
24:34
Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking too a first time that
24:36
Speaker 1: are going back to even Crowley, is that other order
24:39
Speaker 1: with the lamp? M It wasn't sure? Yeah, No, I'm
24:44
Speaker 1: glad you asked that, Judith, because I was wondering about
24:46
Speaker 1: that and totally forgot that.
24:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that those are some interesting connections as well,
24:52
Speaker 4: because that was wasn't that that that was the order
24:56
Speaker 4: that that Crowley created when he was his very first
25:00
Speaker 4: Inokian experiments in Mexico, if I if I recall correctly
25:07
Speaker 4: with some of the Freemasons there, Yeah, do you.
25:11
Speaker 1: Think he went there too because of descrying came from Mexico.
25:20
Speaker 1: The piece that John D used volcanic whatever from Mexico.
25:29
Speaker 1: That's what I heard.
25:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's well, from from what I understand, the obsidian
25:38
Speaker 4: mirror was was never used by John D. He had
25:42
Speaker 4: to he had to crystals. Yeah, in his diaries, he's
25:48
Speaker 4: got two crystals that he uses for scrying. He's got
25:51
Speaker 4: the crystal ball that sits on top of the holy
25:53
Speaker 4: table where Edward Kelly would look into it like a
25:57
Speaker 4: pallantea and see usions. And then there was another crystal
26:03
Speaker 4: that was used for scrying, which D was actually given
26:07
Speaker 4: by an angel. It was like an egg shaped sort
26:11
Speaker 4: of crystal and he sort of he set it in
26:15
Speaker 4: some kind of like gold or something like that, some
26:17
Speaker 4: metal and put it on. Well, eventually he did. But
26:22
Speaker 4: he also he put it on the back of a
26:26
Speaker 4: layman which he wore around his neck, which is one
26:29
Speaker 4: of the tools in a Nokian magic, and that was Yeah,
26:33
Speaker 4: that was a way of connecting to the angels. So
26:36
Speaker 4: those are the two crystals.
26:37
Speaker 1: That were Another thing that they attribute to supposedly being
26:42
Speaker 1: there comes from Mexico.
26:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, did he use do you know what he used
26:48
Speaker 3: that for? Or was it in his possession? Even the
26:51
Speaker 3: obsidian mirar.
26:56
Speaker 4: Not that I know of, but it does appear in
26:59
Speaker 4: the in the British Library with all of his tools,
27:03
Speaker 4: doesn't it.
27:04
Speaker 1: So yeah, that is interesting.
27:09
Speaker 3: So that's a promoted miss number.
27:12
Speaker 1: That is I could see that community.
27:18
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean when they were you know, they
27:22
Speaker 4: were going over to that side of the world and
27:24
Speaker 4: bringing stuff back.
27:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was going to say, didn't it even seem
27:27
Speaker 1: like with certain occultist in Mexico was even a hot
27:30
Speaker 1: spot for a lot of them. I mean even Manson
27:32
Speaker 1: was trying to go down there, and I do think
27:33
Speaker 1: he was an ocultist. I mean, you have a lot
27:37
Speaker 1: of occultists and we went to Mexico for some reason.
27:42
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I mean there's it's you know, they've got
27:48
Speaker 4: their own indigenous form of magic in the form.
27:53
Speaker 1: Of I think it was just like the stuff the experience.
28:00
Speaker 1: M hm yeah, uh Judith or Ethan, did you have
28:05
Speaker 1: anything else?
28:08
Speaker 3: I was just going to add that in Mexico, I
28:10
Speaker 3: believe there is this whole one region in the mountains
28:14
Speaker 3: that has that whole mushroom culture that. Of course this
28:17
Speaker 3: was post Crowley, but kind of before the hippie movement
28:22
Speaker 3: that was kind of tapped into by quite a few
28:26
Speaker 3: prominent intelligence and uh, philosophical people. I forget the names
28:33
Speaker 3: right now, just to add that, Sorry if that's tangential.
28:40
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I did have this question. I totally forgot.
28:44
Speaker 1: Somebody had asked, what is the most effective technique of
28:47
Speaker 1: practice you gained in your benefit? I'm thinking that might
28:50
Speaker 1: have been asked when you were talking about being in
28:52
Speaker 1: like the OTO or AA.
28:56
Speaker 4: Meditation was definitely meditation to.
29:00
Speaker 1: Say that too. That's funny, yeah like that, because they're
29:03
Speaker 1: both huge on the AA is huge on that.
29:06
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah. And so when I was a probationer,
29:10
Speaker 4: I needed to choose a was it a student or
29:14
Speaker 4: a probationer or one or the other. I needed to
29:16
Speaker 4: choose a practice that I did regularly for a year
29:22
Speaker 4: and get results from that. So I chose Raji yoga.
29:26
Speaker 4: And because it combined lots of different yogas that that
29:29
Speaker 4: appear you know in the AA curriculum at various points
29:34
Speaker 4: on the tree. Combines you know, breath work, pronyama, it
29:38
Speaker 4: combines half the yoga in the form of postures and
29:41
Speaker 4: then meditation as well.
29:42
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's like well, like that's like half a
29:44
Speaker 1: liber right there.
29:46
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, Yeah, So I did. I did that and
29:51
Speaker 4: it was incredibly rewarding.
29:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can that makes sense. I can see how. Yeah,
29:56
Speaker 1: you're that was a smart choice because you are incorporating
29:58
Speaker 1: a bunch of things that are all suggested separately, in
30:01
Speaker 1: my opinion, in a lot of traditions, especially like croly mhm.
30:06
Speaker 2: Which brings me to a question. With all these techniques, yoga, meditation,
30:13
Speaker 2: even the Cabbala two, a lot of practices within the
30:15
Speaker 2: Lima and the a a which they do share, what
30:21
Speaker 2: is what did what? What would you say the common
30:24
Speaker 2: denominator that.
30:25
Speaker 5: Hold all these together?
30:27
Speaker 2: Because, like Nick said, these would be separate practices, separate
30:33
Speaker 2: techniques that people would take upon.
30:35
Speaker 3: M hm.
30:38
Speaker 4: Well, the if you're if you're working with something like
30:42
Speaker 4: the A A system, uh and in fact the Golden
30:45
Speaker 4: Dawn system which informed much of the A A system.
30:49
Speaker 4: You're putting it all together on the tree of life,
30:53
Speaker 4: so so that that's the thing that's that's the tool
30:56
Speaker 4: that they use from a practical standpoint too, to draw
31:00
Speaker 4: it all together. And so basically what you're trying to do,
31:04
Speaker 4: you're trying to Ah, you're trying you're trying to create
31:11
Speaker 4: a sense of wholeness I suppose as a human being,
31:14
Speaker 4: and experience every type of transformation that you need to
31:18
Speaker 4: experience and incorporate that on your way back up the
31:21
Speaker 4: tree of life to the supernals, back to union with God.
31:27
Speaker 4: And so that's what the point of all of this
31:29
Speaker 4: really is. It's it's reunification with the divine. That's the
31:35
Speaker 4: kind of the unifying theory of it. I think, just.
31:43
Speaker 3: To add that too, right, Yoga itself means to yoke
31:47
Speaker 3: and unite these different all these different forces, the individual
31:53
Speaker 3: forces with the universal energy and so forth.
31:58
Speaker 4: And the word religion comes from relig which means reunion
32:04
Speaker 4: with with with with God in this case, so yoga
32:08
Speaker 4: religion it's it's about reunification.
32:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if you kind of look into like uh
32:15
Speaker 1: even like follow like breath in practices and like the
32:20
Speaker 1: thoughts behind it and the meaning and like all the
32:22
Speaker 1: older religions or pantheons, like that's even like equated to
32:26
Speaker 1: like you know, kind of like you know, I guess
32:30
Speaker 1: unification with God. In this sense, there's a lot of
32:35
Speaker 1: just even with breath and like kind of like what
32:37
Speaker 1: you're talking about, a lot of that does kind of
32:39
Speaker 1: really go back to having some sort of experience like that.
32:44
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That's why I think, you know, not again
32:48
Speaker 1: getting back to Crowley role that members of the OTO here,
32:51
Speaker 1: but you know, I do think that he you know,
32:55
Speaker 1: he highly stressed that. I think he understood those practices
32:59
Speaker 1: were huge to have a magical experience, m which I
33:05
Speaker 1: why I think, like I mentioned before, I think the
33:07
Speaker 1: AA is extremely just from my experience from looking into
33:10
Speaker 1: joining them and seeing some of their practices and like
33:14
Speaker 1: what would be expected, it seemed like you were gonna
33:17
Speaker 1: have to practice that stuff. Yeah, like they considered it important.
33:24
Speaker 1: You know. I don't think it's for no reason.
33:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well certainly, yeah, to do the path of
33:33
Speaker 4: initiation and self transformation. Yeah, that that's the sort of
33:40
Speaker 4: practices that are necessary.
33:43
Speaker 1: Makes sense to me, even like there was well, the
33:47
Speaker 1: reason why I'm saying that was like even like I
33:49
Speaker 1: did recently even stuff on breath work and certain type
33:52
Speaker 1: of yoga like showing like the scientific effects that can
33:56
Speaker 1: be proven from like studies, and it's just like it
33:59
Speaker 1: really is pretty wow. Like what you can do to
34:02
Speaker 1: your consciousness and your body through breathing and meditation, it
34:05
Speaker 1: is like, whoa pretty impressive. Yeah, go ahead.
34:15
Speaker 3: In regards to your meditation practice, if you've stuck with
34:21
Speaker 3: one type of practice, if you've kind of integrated different ideas,
34:28
Speaker 3: and or if you vary your meditation practice with different
34:31
Speaker 3: forms of meditation, if you will, if that makes sense.
34:39
Speaker 4: Well, I haven't departed too much from Raji yoga. Perhaps
34:47
Speaker 4: maybe maybe I use a different type of visualization to
34:50
Speaker 4: focus on in order to get to the jiana. But yeah,
34:57
Speaker 4: I mean my meditation practice is remain pretty similar to that.
35:03
Speaker 4: And I've actually found that if you look at different traditions,
35:08
Speaker 4: it tends there tends to be a lot of similarities.
35:11
Speaker 4: Like in something like the terror Arden Buddhist practices, you know,
35:17
Speaker 4: there's there's the same steps of look at your posture,
35:20
Speaker 4: do breathing in a certain way and then look for
35:25
Speaker 4: the limitis and focus and remove everything from your mind
35:30
Speaker 4: and look for this experience in this experience. So there
35:34
Speaker 4: tends to be a lot of similarities. And even in
35:38
Speaker 4: Jewish meditation, which actually has only existed for about a
35:42
Speaker 4: thousand years, but Abraham abbe Lafia came up with this
35:47
Speaker 4: system of what he called the prophetic Kabbalah, which is
35:53
Speaker 4: form of a form of Jewish mystical meditation where the
35:57
Speaker 4: first step is kind of writing out the God name
36:00
Speaker 4: and understanding them, and then the next stay and then
36:04
Speaker 4: you have to kind of do exercise certain physical exercises
36:08
Speaker 4: in that, and there's certain breathing techniques in that, and
36:11
Speaker 4: then there's visualizing certain Hebrew letters or names, and then
36:18
Speaker 4: as you go deeper into that, it changes your consciousness
36:21
Speaker 4: and your connection with God. So following very much the
36:26
Speaker 4: same formula there, So while I wouldn't I don't know
36:31
Speaker 4: if I would strictly call my meditation practice now to
36:35
Speaker 4: be raji yoga, I definitely usually follow the same format,
36:42
Speaker 4: the same formula.
36:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, thank you for that. There's a good question.
36:55
Speaker 1: Thank you, great answer. So what made you get into
37:02
Speaker 1: I guess this segue into the book. What made you
37:06
Speaker 1: interested in angels specifically? Well, I mean I understand for
37:11
Speaker 1: a practitioner, but just maybe for other people.
37:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think that it's actually something that that
37:20
Speaker 4: I was led to from a very young age, which
37:24
Speaker 4: which which is kind of like mind boggling, but yeah,
37:28
Speaker 4: I feel like I was given dreams when I was
37:34
Speaker 4: very young, like from age eleven, which were almost you know,
37:42
Speaker 4: preparing me for to be to become interested in certain
37:49
Speaker 4: types of ceremonial magic, particularly Innokian. And so when the
37:58
Speaker 4: time came to explore different system of magic, I naturally
38:01
Speaker 4: gravitated towards that. And yeah, and then I just really
38:08
Speaker 4: went to town with a nochan magic. In particular, in
38:12
Speaker 4: the OTO, I was known as that guy who loves
38:14
Speaker 4: a Noachian.
38:16
Speaker 1: That's cool, that's good. Yeah, it's better than other things
38:20
Speaker 1: being known in the OTO.
38:21
Speaker 4: For Yeah, well, there's only so many times we can
38:26
Speaker 4: redo the thirtieth ether, right Yeah. So yeah, so that
38:32
Speaker 4: so that's the story there. And then the knowledge and
38:36
Speaker 4: conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel was naturally something that
38:40
Speaker 4: was like an essential step in the thelemic system. So
38:46
Speaker 4: so that's why I explored that.
38:51
Speaker 1: You might get a little bit into uh for the listeners,
38:54
Speaker 1: because I've only like really had one other person on
38:56
Speaker 1: I think really get into it. Fred. I see you
38:59
Speaker 1: just give people an idea of what Anochian magic is
39:01
Speaker 1: to you. I mean you probably just explained the little
39:04
Speaker 1: bit just now in so many words.
39:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, So Innokeian magic. So within the Western esoteric tradition
39:12
Speaker 4: there and ceremonial magic that's practiced there, there's like different
39:16
Speaker 4: there's like different types of systems that you can use
39:20
Speaker 4: to do different things. So there's all the grimoires and
39:25
Speaker 4: and all of that, and yeah, different types of spirits
39:30
Speaker 4: that you can contact, and so Inochian system is one
39:33
Speaker 4: of sorry. Inochian magic is one of those systems. And
39:38
Speaker 4: it came about because and Elizabethan polymath called John d
39:45
Speaker 4: wanted to communicate with angels. He was very well versed
39:48
Speaker 4: in Agrippa and some of the other older occultists wanted
39:52
Speaker 4: to contact angels using scrying, which is using a crystal
39:58
Speaker 4: ball as a focus point to receive visions. And he
40:04
Speaker 4: started doing that eventually with someone called Edward Kelly, and
40:10
Speaker 4: the result of that was, according to his diaries, successful
40:15
Speaker 4: contact with angelic beings who then gave him a system
40:19
Speaker 4: of magic for deepening that contact, in the form of
40:23
Speaker 4: various ritual tools, various tables that have different angelic names
40:30
Speaker 4: on them, and in the form of a language which
40:35
Speaker 4: became known as the Enochian language, which is supposedly spoken
40:40
Speaker 4: by the angels. And so that was all the material
40:43
Speaker 4: that d took down from his angelic communications, and then
40:49
Speaker 4: the Golden Dawn came along and really started to popularize
40:58
Speaker 4: and promote that as a match cool system. They kind
41:01
Speaker 4: of innovated it in their own way, but that was
41:05
Speaker 4: the first time that people started talking about Innochi and magic.
41:08
Speaker 4: They were the ones that applied that label to it.
41:13
Speaker 1: So, yeah, so.
41:14
Speaker 4: It's a series of rituals that you can use to
41:17
Speaker 4: contact angels, is the shorthand version of it.
41:23
Speaker 1: Thank you, No, that was really well said. I appreciate that.
41:27
Speaker 4: Thank you.
41:28
Speaker 1: Great explanation.
41:30
Speaker 3: I One anecdote of their communicating with these angels is
41:37
Speaker 3: they were seeking treasure and gold, and at one point
41:42
Speaker 3: the angel kind of marks them like, I have all
41:45
Speaker 3: this information here for you, and you're asking me where
41:48
Speaker 3: the gold is.
41:49
Speaker 4: Have you heard that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And then perhaps
41:59
Speaker 4: perhaps the real tree was the knowledge out. So yeah,
42:04
Speaker 4: but I mean it's you know, it's it's a quandary
42:08
Speaker 4: that any human can sympathize with. I think, like, you know,
42:11
Speaker 4: I want to do all this occult stuff, but you know,
42:14
Speaker 4: I've got to pay the rent. I've got to pay
42:16
Speaker 4: the mortgage as well, So like, you know, how do
42:21
Speaker 4: you square that? But yeah, I've heard that story.
42:25
Speaker 3: We've all been there, but not only the rare few
42:28
Speaker 3: have been mocked by an angel for it.
42:31
Speaker 4: Yeah.
42:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like the Renaissance times where we can
42:36
Speaker 1: just find ourselves a patron and just study the y
42:38
Speaker 1: called you know, because a lot of that, a lot
42:41
Speaker 1: of that happened in the past too, or not to
42:45
Speaker 1: like probably doesn't help, like conspiracy theorists or people that
42:49
Speaker 1: I want to say that ceremonial magicians have a white
42:52
Speaker 1: privilege because I've heard that and been told that, but
42:55
Speaker 1: some of them did also come just fortunately from affluent
42:58
Speaker 1: families and were able to spend time I'm studying the acule.
43:02
Speaker 1: But yeah, or or you find yourself a king that
43:05
Speaker 1: wants to be who was interested in this.
43:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean it does help if you if
43:13
Speaker 4: you come from from an affluent family where you can
43:17
Speaker 4: h yeah, where you can spend all your time and
43:20
Speaker 4: money exploring that stuff and not doing other things. But
43:23
Speaker 4: is that because of is that because of white privilege,
43:27
Speaker 4: or is that just because of the economic situation.
43:31
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just saying what's been said to me.
43:36
Speaker 4: I had, yeah, you know, rolling around in pink pooh
43:43
Speaker 4: or whatever. You know.
43:44
Speaker 1: No, it totally threw me off. Man. I was like, oh, okay,
43:47
Speaker 1: I've never actually heard this, and I was like thinking.
43:50
Speaker 1: I was like, well, they do kind of like raise
43:52
Speaker 1: the prices of herbs. I mean, that is kind of ridiculous.
43:54
Speaker 1: I'm starting to try to rationalize this. I'm like, what
43:56
Speaker 1: the fuck, you're crazy. Yeah, so I forgot where I
44:04
Speaker 1: was going now with that. Oh yeah, with the angels.
44:09
Speaker 1: So what was like this ten years?
44:10
Speaker 4: Like, man, yeah, well it was you know, it wasn't
44:16
Speaker 4: the whole ten years, but it was on and off.
44:20
Speaker 4: That would be mind blowing if somebody had just spent
44:25
Speaker 4: an entire ten year period doing stuff like that. But yeah,
44:29
Speaker 4: there was certainly like the two most important periods were
44:34
Speaker 4: like the samic working to attain knowledge and conversation with
44:40
Speaker 4: the Holy Galian Angel, and that in my case lasted
44:46
Speaker 4: well roughly six months, well actually two hundred and sixty
44:51
Speaker 4: two days. And then the other big magical working that
44:57
Speaker 4: contributed to the book was the Jebbiphil Ritual, which lasts
45:01
Speaker 4: forty nine days of constant magical practice. And so yeah,
45:09
Speaker 4: and then there were other little workings in between that
45:11
Speaker 4: kind of added bits of knowledge as well, but yeah,
45:17
Speaker 4: those are the main ones, and yeah, it was it
45:20
Speaker 4: was amazing to be able to do those. And yeah,
45:29
Speaker 4: there's nothing quite like, you know, having a question that
45:35
Speaker 4: you've been thinking about for months, not being able to
45:39
Speaker 4: crack with your own intellect and then you just getting
45:44
Speaker 4: this answer from somewhere else and it just it harmonizes everything,
45:50
Speaker 4: and it simplifies everything, and it just creates a sense
45:56
Speaker 4: of peace and satisfaction. That's that's really, That's how many
46:03
Speaker 4: of the angelic sessions went when I was, you know,
46:09
Speaker 4: asking my questions and or just asking for them to
46:13
Speaker 4: tell me whatever they want to tell me. But there
46:18
Speaker 4: were some there were some communications that were uncomfortable as well,
46:23
Speaker 4: you know, to do with the way that the current
46:28
Speaker 4: world is going and what its ultimate fate is, what
46:32
Speaker 4: the current society, let's say. But definitely very profound experiences
46:41
Speaker 4: and deepening my understanding of a lot of things, and
46:46
Speaker 4: the Holy Guardian Angel working in particular, you know, led
46:51
Speaker 4: eventually to a very beautiful state of divine union, which
46:59
Speaker 4: is what we really need to do. We need to
47:01
Speaker 4: have a direct experience of that to to really be
47:03
Speaker 4: able to to understand it from the inside. So that
47:08
Speaker 4: was very rewarding. And yeah, so when you yeah, when
47:14
Speaker 4: you work with angels like that, you know, it's it
47:19
Speaker 4: fills your cup in a way where you don't you
47:22
Speaker 4: don't need, you don't feel like you've missed anything. You're
47:26
Speaker 4: you're you're, you're fully satisfied, and it's not to do
47:29
Speaker 4: with your situation in life, but it's you know, it's
47:33
Speaker 4: to do with a sense of spiritual satisfaction and yeah,
47:43
Speaker 4: participating in the reality of God. And maybe that's why
47:48
Speaker 4: the Angel was so harsh with with Dan Kelly when
47:52
Speaker 4: they asked for money, because what's money compared to that?
47:57
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, but we still need to survive here.
48:05
Speaker 2: Would you say it was a divine understanding?
48:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so so with the Holy Guardian Angel, and
48:19
Speaker 4: I think Crawley did a good job of of helping
48:24
Speaker 4: us reach this understanding. You know, it's it's the same
48:27
Speaker 4: as the Atman in Hinduism, which is that that little
48:31
Speaker 4: bit of God, that that is our deepest nature and
48:37
Speaker 4: if we if we re identify with that, we we
48:41
Speaker 4: essentially become one with God again. And so knowledge and
48:49
Speaker 4: conversation kind of yeah, it involves that kind of that
48:55
Speaker 4: union of subject and object. It's it's similar to to Somadi.
49:01
Speaker 4: They're different experiences, but they're trying to take you to
49:03
Speaker 4: the same place. And so then when you reach that
49:07
Speaker 4: state of consciousness, you can, Yeah, you can understand divinity
49:11
Speaker 4: from from the point of view of divinity because that's
49:14
Speaker 4: what we all are. So that's yeah, that's that's you know,
49:21
Speaker 4: that's the experience that we're trying to get to, right.
49:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, before I move on to the question that I have,
49:30
Speaker 1: somebody get me a two hour up Chaid, Thank you
49:32
Speaker 1: very much. You angels get things wrong sometimes.
49:39
Speaker 4: Not in my experience, but sometimes people can get things wrong.
49:43
Speaker 4: And sometimes we we think that the angel is talking
49:47
Speaker 4: to us and it's really just our own ego telling
49:50
Speaker 4: us what we want to hear. So there's a process
49:53
Speaker 4: of discernament that's necessary and training training ourselves to shut
49:59
Speaker 4: up our own mind and let the angel speak, let
50:02
Speaker 4: something else speak.
50:03
Speaker 1: That's where I think the meditation comes back into play.
50:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And when I was doing when I
50:12
Speaker 4: was doing the Sarmic working, I would do the Bornless right,
50:18
Speaker 4: and then after every single performance of that right, I
50:23
Speaker 4: would meditate for about thirty minutes maybe more. And that
50:30
Speaker 4: was that wasn't rager yoga. That was like a simple
50:33
Speaker 4: It was like a yeah, just emptying the mind kind
50:36
Speaker 4: of kind of thing. But that's the idea. There's the
50:41
Speaker 4: active aspect of it, where you're calling forth the bornless one,
50:46
Speaker 4: and then there's the passive aspect, which is waiting and
50:50
Speaker 4: sitting in silence. And it's the second one that's the challenge.
51:00
Speaker 1: Sitting in silence. Yeah, I just I just did it
51:04
Speaker 1: like a solo show meditation and just just silent even
51:08
Speaker 1: like overcoming the body. You know, all of a sudden,
51:12
Speaker 1: now you feel every twitch and ache when you just
51:14
Speaker 1: so much to try to sitting in silence nice.
51:20
Speaker 4: Uh, monologue you know is always going as well. It's
51:25
Speaker 4: very hard to shut that off even if you're not speaking.
51:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot. It's a lot deeper than
51:34
Speaker 1: I think people think, you know, even for myself even
51:39
Speaker 1: when I first started getting into this, this type of
51:42
Speaker 1: stuff I had, you know, I think even a David Shoemaker,
51:46
Speaker 1: I think he even stressed possibly don't if it was
51:48
Speaker 1: in his book or at least it was on his podcast.
51:51
Speaker 1: He even like said, like one of the first things
51:53
Speaker 1: if you're gonna get into magic meditation. And there was
51:57
Speaker 1: a lot of people that I would say, I don't
51:58
Speaker 1: remember now, but I remember back then that I looked
52:01
Speaker 1: up to and thought had something worth saying. Always included
52:04
Speaker 1: that I believe it or not. For me. When I
52:06
Speaker 1: first got into it, I was just like, oh, that's
52:08
Speaker 1: so boring. I don't want to do that, you know.
52:11
Speaker 1: But then like something clicked and I was like, you
52:13
Speaker 1: know what all these people are saying it though, I
52:15
Speaker 1: was like, screw it. You know what if I don't
52:18
Speaker 1: want to do it that bad, how do I know
52:20
Speaker 1: that's not what's going to hold me back? And I
52:23
Speaker 1: forced myself to get into it, and I think it
52:25
Speaker 1: was so so important. Yeah, thank you. I think I
52:32
Speaker 1: kind of go to off track a little bit, but
52:37
Speaker 1: all right with the angel magic that I wanted to ask,
52:41
Speaker 1: do you ever do like just like like the orgy kind.
52:44
Speaker 4: Of like stuff, uh the ergy.
52:53
Speaker 1: Like more like maybe like just prayers to certain a
52:55
Speaker 1: like not necessarily really I don't know how to explain.
53:00
Speaker 1: I guess it would be a different type of asking
53:02
Speaker 1: of what you're asking for. Mhmm, yeah, for me, what
53:08
Speaker 1: I was gonna get out for me, there was a
53:09
Speaker 1: lot of times I did a lot of angel work
53:11
Speaker 1: and it was more of just like kind of like
53:12
Speaker 1: prayers and devotion or just like maybe asking for like
53:16
Speaker 1: like help just like changing certain I guess aspects of
53:19
Speaker 1: myself and behaviors, and a lot of it would be
53:22
Speaker 1: like meditation and prayers, and those for me seemed to
53:28
Speaker 1: actually be besides other like more profound experiences. Those seem
53:34
Speaker 1: to be like the most I don't know, very touching,
53:39
Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't know how to explain it.
53:40
Speaker 1: But it was just like very impactful, like it almost
53:42
Speaker 1: felt like there was like a feeling with inside of
53:45
Speaker 1: me that changed when dealing with angels a lot.
53:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I've had that same feeling with it
53:54
Speaker 4: innikean angels as well, and some of my earliest experimentations
53:59
Speaker 4: with a Nike Magic I was working with different angels
54:02
Speaker 4: from the watch Towers, like the scene whatever, and I
54:07
Speaker 4: was using I was using long Milo Ticket's book, not
54:13
Speaker 4: not in no Okin Vision Magic, the one that came
54:16
Speaker 4: before that. And yeah, and so you know, I was
54:22
Speaker 4: dealing with one of these angels at a time, and
54:25
Speaker 4: I found what you were talking about. Yeah, like it
54:28
Speaker 4: changes your internal state. And yeah, like I was dabbling
54:33
Speaker 4: with a lot of different things at the time, and
54:36
Speaker 4: some things had a bit more of an external effect.
54:40
Speaker 4: But yeah, the thing that was unique about the angels
54:42
Speaker 4: was yeah, like you say, you yeah, like for me,
54:45
Speaker 4: if I if I invoke, so you know, invoke rather
54:50
Speaker 4: than evoke, if I invoke a spirit of Jupiter, then
54:54
Speaker 4: I feel very joyful and magnanimous and general us afterwards,
55:01
Speaker 4: you know. And if I feel if if if I
55:04
Speaker 4: invoke a spirit of Mercury, I feel very analytical and focused.
55:09
Speaker 4: And yeah, so I think, yeah, that's that's certainly a
55:13
Speaker 4: feature of it, and yeah, it is. It is good
55:16
Speaker 4: to just ask the angels to change something about yourself,
55:22
Speaker 4: you know, and and it's much better to work with
55:25
Speaker 4: them for that specific kind of thing. Other spirits will
55:30
Speaker 4: you know, will be for like getting things. But you know,
55:35
Speaker 4: the whole point is self transformation and even working with
55:39
Speaker 4: the ethers and things like that. I mean, the knowledge
55:42
Speaker 4: that you bring back is meant to transform you. It's
55:45
Speaker 4: meant to teach you a lesson and you know, improve
55:50
Speaker 4: you as a person.
55:51
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think very well said thank you
55:55
Speaker 1: for saying all that. I'm glad you said that for
55:58
Speaker 1: people to hear that, because that's of my experience.
56:03
Speaker 2: I have a question as a precautionary tale for anyone
56:08
Speaker 2: who would like to because most people they hear an
56:10
Speaker 2: Okian magic and.
56:11
Speaker 5: They want to jump into it. And what precautionary.
56:17
Speaker 2: Steps would you advise anyone who wants to get involved
56:21
Speaker 2: in it outside of asking for gold.
56:26
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I have heard people say that they find
56:33
Speaker 4: an Oakean magic particularly intense and not necessarily for beginners.
56:44
Speaker 4: But I suppose what long Monologic Kit would say is
56:49
Speaker 4: that there needs to be a period of attunement before
56:53
Speaker 4: people attempt it. So he's got this whole method in
56:58
Speaker 4: the book where he's got the whole the table that
57:01
Speaker 4: you put the crystal on, and it's got all the
57:04
Speaker 4: letters around, and he he's created this little ritual where
57:09
Speaker 4: you verbalize the name of each letter as you go around,
57:13
Speaker 4: and the whole point is to kind of make you
57:17
Speaker 4: resonate with the system of magic so that when you
57:22
Speaker 4: come into it it's not as jarring. So stuff like
57:27
Speaker 4: that is certainly good. I never did anything like that,
57:30
Speaker 4: but I kind of sort of gently started to explore
57:38
Speaker 4: it by doing like a simpler ritual then just you know,
57:48
Speaker 4: opening the heavens or whatever. So yeah, definitely treat the
57:53
Speaker 4: system with respect and ease your way into it. And
57:57
Speaker 4: particularly since you dealing with all of these tables and
58:01
Speaker 4: things like that, like it takes time to really familiarize
58:06
Speaker 4: yourself with that and work your way around it and
58:11
Speaker 4: get your head around it. So yeah, achievement, that's that's
58:17
Speaker 4: the advice that I would give to people, Like, that's
58:19
Speaker 4: an important first step with that type of magic.
58:24
Speaker 2: Would you say the initiations that you went through prior
58:27
Speaker 2: to through the OTO and through the AA helped you
58:30
Speaker 2: get that get to a certain point of a tillement like.
58:33
Speaker 4: That it was it wasn't so much the OTO and
58:39
Speaker 4: the AA. It was more it was more working with
58:43
Speaker 4: the Enokian material and you know, I created the watch
58:50
Speaker 4: Tower tables from scratch and really really focused on details
58:57
Speaker 4: that that seem basic, but you know, you've you've kind
59:02
Speaker 4: of got to go through that preparatory stage first. And
59:10
Speaker 4: there is a theory that I've heard as well that
59:14
Speaker 4: when Dan Kelly received the Tables of Loagai and wrote
59:20
Speaker 4: all of those down, that that was meant to be
59:22
Speaker 4: a process of achievement for them, for the Enochian system.
59:27
Speaker 4: So those types of things, more so than the initiations
59:32
Speaker 4: of the OTO or the AA, are things that I
59:34
Speaker 4: think prepared me, although I've heard that the Golden Door
59:39
Speaker 4: initiations incorporate some Anochian stuff in them, like and everything.
59:49
Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that, because some people want to
59:51
Speaker 2: jump in, as we are in a society of instant
59:57
Speaker 2: gratification and instant doing, thateople don't realize there are tables
1:00:01
Speaker 2: that they have to put together, and there are materials
1:00:04
Speaker 2: that they have to gather first before taking on this
1:00:09
Speaker 2: great feat, especially if you're doing it by yourself. But
1:00:12
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get into that work.
1:00:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, definitely, And there does seem to be something
1:00:20
Speaker 4: that is just very different to us vibrationally in terms
1:00:25
Speaker 4: of the way that the angels are and yeah, yeah,
1:00:31
Speaker 4: so this is a process there of being able to yeah,
1:00:37
Speaker 4: to be able to have that connection without it feeling
1:00:44
Speaker 4: too intense or something like that. Yeah, but yeah, certainly
1:00:48
Speaker 4: not what people want to hear in the age of
1:00:49
Speaker 4: instant gratification.
1:00:54
Speaker 1: I would even say with a noikia magic, that's even
1:00:57
Speaker 1: I mean, I would even consider that beginning magic really,
1:01:01
Speaker 1: you know, ask me in another five years. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
1:01:07
Speaker 1: that's just even something that It's like, if you get
1:01:09
Speaker 1: into that, I would hope you'd have a whole bunch
1:01:10
Speaker 1: of other practice with other stuff. Yeah. I don't even
1:01:16
Speaker 1: think I would even Like I never got into Anochi
1:01:18
Speaker 1: and stuff. I was very interested in it, but I
1:01:20
Speaker 1: don't even think, you know, I think even if I
1:01:21
Speaker 1: got in that, and that would be fucking lost, totally honest. Yeah.
1:01:29
Speaker 3: I wonder to the idea of this transformative process and
1:01:34
Speaker 3: the idea of atonement you mentioned, I deduced you mentioned
1:01:40
Speaker 3: and or kind of I felt like you had an
1:01:42
Speaker 3: affinity for numerology when you mentioned it, and you also
1:01:48
Speaker 3: described how you have FI in your name, which I
1:01:52
Speaker 3: mean I presume you might have an affinity with sacred
1:01:54
Speaker 3: geomostry too. I wonder if you could just explore, you know,
1:02:01
Speaker 3: maybe how you put integrated that in your name and
1:02:03
Speaker 3: and just the general ideas of numerology and geometry that
1:02:07
Speaker 3: you might utilize.
1:02:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, so certainly, maybe not numerology in the way it's
1:02:19
Speaker 4: used in fortune telling, but certainly gemetria is something that
1:02:24
Speaker 4: that I use quite a bit. So with the name
1:02:32
Speaker 4: I was, yeah, I was trying to I was trying
1:02:35
Speaker 4: to alter elephtheria in order to reach a solar number,
1:02:40
Speaker 4: which was my understanding of what I was doing. But
1:02:44
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's it might freak some people out,
1:02:47
Speaker 4: but I was trying to reach the number six sixty
1:02:49
Speaker 4: six as the number of some and you know, and
1:02:56
Speaker 4: I was a Thelamite at the time, so I considered
1:02:59
Speaker 4: that number two be very important for you know, the
1:03:03
Speaker 4: path of initiation and becoming one with God and all
1:03:07
Speaker 4: of that, and so eletherea with a fee instead of
1:03:13
Speaker 4: a upsilon will get you to six six five. So
1:03:18
Speaker 4: and that's part of the reason why I sort of
1:03:20
Speaker 4: put it to one side, because I couldn't find a
1:03:24
Speaker 4: way of changing the spelling to get the outcome that
1:03:28
Speaker 4: I wanted, which in hindsight I'm now happy about because
1:03:35
Speaker 4: since my religious and spiritual beliefs have changed, I don't
1:03:41
Speaker 4: want to be associated with that number. I just think
1:03:45
Speaker 4: that there's a lot of baggage there with negative connotations.
1:03:51
Speaker 4: So yeah, but my name in the Oto when I
1:03:56
Speaker 4: was like a four four fifth degree was elep Theoria alpha.
1:04:02
Speaker 4: So so so that was that was me using numerology
1:04:07
Speaker 4: to alter a name to get a certain result. And yeah,
1:04:12
Speaker 4: and then when I when I left the Oto, I
1:04:15
Speaker 4: dropped the A from the end, the alpha from the end.
1:04:20
Speaker 4: So yeah. So so you can certainly alter words to
1:04:28
Speaker 4: have an added layer of meaning with numerology, and that's
1:04:32
Speaker 4: something that I do in my spiritual path, and I
1:04:35
Speaker 4: look for the the hidden meanings and connections between words
1:04:40
Speaker 4: with with geometria for sure as well.
1:04:45
Speaker 1: Nice you're getting into jematria, I bean able to. Yeah,
1:04:48
Speaker 1: I mean that makes sense. I mean that's a silly question.
1:04:53
Speaker 1: What is your opinion on jumatria, Like do you think
1:04:58
Speaker 1: it's and it was like sometimes some people kind of
1:05:02
Speaker 1: blow it off and actually don't think it's really all
1:05:04
Speaker 1: that within the occult, But I think sometimes when it
1:05:07
Speaker 1: comes to certain occultists, and maybe it's not Jamachia, but
1:05:12
Speaker 1: I do think shit's siphered, and I do think Jamachia
1:05:14
Speaker 1: would normally, you know, kind of be some sort of
1:05:16
Speaker 1: way of recording it. I think Jamiitia is highly important
1:05:20
Speaker 1: when it comes to the occult. Is that your opinion?
1:05:23
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so too, And I think it's it's
1:05:27
Speaker 4: like any other form of divination. It's like numerology or astrology.
1:05:34
Speaker 4: You know, things fall a certain way in apparently coincidence,
1:05:40
Speaker 4: in an apparently coincidential way, and then you look into
1:05:44
Speaker 4: it and you find these little synchronicities, and those are important,
1:05:49
Speaker 4: if for no other reason, then because we think that
1:05:52
Speaker 4: they're important, and that tells us something. And I've certainly
1:05:57
Speaker 4: found in other instances that Gemmetria has told me things
1:06:02
Speaker 4: which you have some truth behind them. So, for example,
1:06:09
Speaker 4: the name that my Holy Guardian Angel gave me its
1:06:13
Speaker 4: name which which I won't reveal, It gave me this
1:06:18
Speaker 4: name which which hasn't established Geometria.
1:06:25
Speaker 3: Value.
1:06:26
Speaker 4: And then years later, when I used a Grippa's technique
1:06:30
Speaker 4: for finding my natal angel by attributing Hebrew letters to
1:06:35
Speaker 4: different degrees of different placements, I found that the name
1:06:39
Speaker 4: that I got from that had the same Gemmetria as
1:06:42
Speaker 4: my Holy Guardian Angel. So that was just like mind
1:06:46
Speaker 4: blowing when that happened.
1:06:47
Speaker 1: That was that's blogged out.
1:06:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, So so yeah, that's so so there's definitely something
1:06:56
Speaker 4: to it.
1:06:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would that would have really I'm sold on that. Yeah,
1:07:00
Speaker 1: that is cool as ship man. That's a cool experience.
1:07:02
Speaker 1: Good for you.
1:07:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you.
1:07:06
Speaker 1: M hm uh what else did Ethan or Judith? Did
1:07:12
Speaker 1: you have anything that you want to do at aar resk? No?
1:07:18
Speaker 5: No, right now?
1:07:19
Speaker 1: Okay? Oh oh somebody did ask somebody did ask in
1:07:23
Speaker 1: the chat I keep forgetting. I'm so sorry. I hope
1:07:25
Speaker 1: they're still around. Very good question too, because I was like,
1:07:29
Speaker 1: how did I and I think of asking this? You
1:07:30
Speaker 1: just said it and I just let it go by.
1:07:32
Speaker 1: I don't know if you talk about it, but like,
1:07:35
Speaker 1: didn't you say something about the angels telling you about
1:07:37
Speaker 1: the future or something, or you had some experiences telling
1:07:41
Speaker 1: you about the future. Somebody was somebody wanted to know
1:07:43
Speaker 1: what they said?
1:07:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was that was Bankshire. I saw that coming
1:07:47
Speaker 4: up before. Yeah, they told me, Well, they didn't they
1:07:52
Speaker 4: didn't say anything like on this date, this big is
1:07:57
Speaker 4: going to happen or anything like that. But what they
1:08:01
Speaker 4: did say was there was a period in the future
1:08:08
Speaker 4: which was going to be like fire spreading through the world,
1:08:12
Speaker 4: whether literally or figuratively, and purging a lot of the
1:08:18
Speaker 4: old structures that were no longer know where things are
1:08:27
Speaker 4: not going right for humanity and that people would need
1:08:32
Speaker 4: to endure that period of upheaval, and the way to
1:08:37
Speaker 4: do that was by connecting back to the divine, by
1:08:42
Speaker 4: connecting back to their spiritual nature, which can endure all things.
1:08:46
Speaker 4: And you know, there was a lot of stuff about
1:08:52
Speaker 4: morality and values and virtues being needed to re establish
1:08:57
Speaker 4: justice when the world seems to be going topsy turvy.
1:09:05
Speaker 4: And yeah, there were some specific predictions about, you know,
1:09:13
Speaker 4: a brighter future for the world and eventually a return
1:09:19
Speaker 4: of the Golden Age, but a lot of that is
1:09:24
Speaker 4: not set in stone. It comes down to the choices
1:09:27
Speaker 4: that we make, and so there can still be multiple
1:09:31
Speaker 4: different outcomes. But if we yeah, if we choose to
1:09:37
Speaker 4: reconnect with the divine, then yeah, the future looks very bright,
1:09:43
Speaker 4: but there is a challenging period that we need to
1:09:47
Speaker 4: move through before before we can reach that, which which
1:09:51
Speaker 4: is consistent with what other prophets have said, I mean,
1:09:56
Speaker 4: you know, like other yeah, like the Old Testament prophets.
1:10:04
Speaker 4: Besides like what we would be familiar with with, like
1:10:07
Speaker 4: Jesus and and the kind of all of the discourse
1:10:11
Speaker 4: and all of that, or even someone like Crowley, you know,
1:10:19
Speaker 4: with with talking about the fire, you know, the force
1:10:23
Speaker 4: and fire coming through and the old world being destroyed.
1:10:28
Speaker 4: But perhaps he had a different he had he had
1:10:31
Speaker 4: a Yeah, perhaps was going in a different direction with
1:10:34
Speaker 4: all of that. But yeah, those are the kind of
1:10:42
Speaker 4: broad strokes, the predictions of the future, if you can
1:10:47
Speaker 4: call them those that that the a that the angels
1:10:50
Speaker 4: gave me.
1:10:53
Speaker 2: In the an atylemic context, would you get consider that
1:10:58
Speaker 2: the bringing of that.
1:10:59
Speaker 4: New air, it is a similar idea to the to
1:11:04
Speaker 4: the bringing of the new aon. But the the image
1:11:10
Speaker 4: of the future aon that the angels gave me, it's
1:11:14
Speaker 4: it doesn't really track with the age of well. In
1:11:18
Speaker 4: certain respects, it tracks with the aon of Horus in
1:11:21
Speaker 4: that it represents the spiritual independence of humanity, but in
1:11:27
Speaker 4: other ways it doesn't. It's not really it's it's not
1:11:33
Speaker 4: really a time of you know, force and fire and forever.
1:11:38
Speaker 4: It's there's a point at which there's peace afterwards, and
1:11:42
Speaker 4: then you know, the message that I was given it
1:11:46
Speaker 4: was not about getting rid of Christianity altogether. It was
1:11:51
Speaker 4: more about the future development of our understanding of the
1:11:57
Speaker 4: divine and of God in a new direction which respected
1:12:02
Speaker 4: the past and built upon the past rather than completely
1:12:06
Speaker 4: destroying it. So in some senses there were there were
1:12:12
Speaker 4: some similarities with the new aon as Crowley would have
1:12:16
Speaker 4: envisioned it. But at the same time it's different and
1:12:21
Speaker 4: probably more consistent with the millennial age that's described in
1:12:28
Speaker 4: the in the Christian kind of the or the Jewish
1:12:33
Speaker 4: account of what the what the future age looks like?
1:12:37
Speaker 4: Peace among the nations. Eventually they were a long way
1:12:42
Speaker 4: off from.
1:12:42
Speaker 1: That, right now, can you hear me now? All right? Yeah, Now,
1:13:00
Speaker 1: there was a few things that you had said that
1:13:03
Speaker 1: just like Judith was saying, it sounded very selemic to me,
1:13:08
Speaker 1: was at the beginning part did it was like that
1:13:10
Speaker 1: almost kind of sounds like the US, well like kind
1:13:13
Speaker 1: of like a Naser package.
1:13:16
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
1:13:17
Speaker 4: Well there's there's similarities.
1:13:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well that sounds sounds nice, sounds promising.
1:13:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, a bit of a bit of hope in
1:13:32
Speaker 4: a world where there's so much you know, fear. I
1:13:37
Speaker 4: don't want to say the actual word because of YouTube
1:13:39
Speaker 4: fear corn about like eye in these horrible ways, and
1:13:44
Speaker 4: here's all the different cataclysms that can completely destroy us
1:13:47
Speaker 4: and take us into a mad max future. And you know,
1:13:51
Speaker 4: it's a it's a different vision of the future to
1:13:53
Speaker 4: that to the one that we've been force fed.
1:14:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, when it comes to your book, uh, you
1:14:06
Speaker 1: have people to go out and get it. What what
1:14:09
Speaker 1: was What's one thing you'd hope that they take from
1:14:11
Speaker 1: that book?
1:14:18
Speaker 4: I mean it does cover a lot a lot of
1:14:24
Speaker 4: things that other traditions have spoken about that, you know,
1:14:29
Speaker 4: the need to find the divine within.
1:14:33
Speaker 3: You.
1:14:33
Speaker 4: You can find that in the Punished Ods, or you
1:14:35
Speaker 4: can find that in other esoteric paths. And yeah, but
1:14:44
Speaker 4: but I guess the big thing that the Book of
1:14:52
Speaker 4: Heavenly Voices or the Vatches Kilsty brings to us is
1:14:58
Speaker 4: understanding how we take a connection with God, you know,
1:15:04
Speaker 4: the divine reconnecting with that, and then you know, and
1:15:10
Speaker 4: and and and and then transform the world in the
1:15:15
Speaker 4: way that it needs to be transformed. Not necessarily, you know,
1:15:21
Speaker 4: not necessarily going out and imposing a vision on on
1:15:25
Speaker 4: the rest of the world, but just how do we
1:15:27
Speaker 4: start to reorganize ourselves, you know, from at the ground level,
1:15:35
Speaker 4: so that society starts to mirror the divine principles, and
1:15:40
Speaker 4: so that we are in harmony with with the will
1:15:46
Speaker 4: of the divine and sort of some practical some practical
1:15:51
Speaker 4: information about how how we can do that. And also,
1:15:57
Speaker 4: if there's friction with the established order, how can we
1:16:01
Speaker 4: stand our ground without getting lost in you know, conflict
1:16:09
Speaker 4: and negativity and and anger and all that sort of thing.
1:16:14
Speaker 4: How can we how can we recognize the need to
1:16:17
Speaker 4: change the the way that things are done now in
1:16:21
Speaker 4: a way where we remain mindful and we are ultimately
1:16:29
Speaker 4: recognizing that true freedom and true liberation comes from the divine,
1:16:35
Speaker 4: and whatever we do in the world needs to be
1:16:38
Speaker 4: a tool for realizing that for as many people as possible.
1:16:43
Speaker 4: So that's kind of the unique perspective that the vatchos
1:16:46
Speaker 4: kyalesty brings. Yeah, Because a lot of yeah, a lot
1:16:51
Speaker 4: of a lot of esoteric traditions will only focus on
1:16:55
Speaker 4: your own personal enlightenment and sort of treat the world
1:16:59
Speaker 4: like it doesn't matter. But this tries to this tries
1:17:04
Speaker 4: to incorporate a sense of social social awareness or awareness
1:17:14
Speaker 4: of the need to, yeah, to pay attention to the
1:17:22
Speaker 4: way society is and how it might need to change
1:17:26
Speaker 4: and how it might not how it might be reproducing
1:17:32
Speaker 4: wickedness in people in the way that it's currently set up,
1:17:37
Speaker 4: and these kind of you know, these structures which are
1:17:39
Speaker 4: which are related to the demiurge in Gnostic thought, but
1:17:43
Speaker 4: really our own creation rather than some evil craftsman demi god.
1:17:52
Speaker 4: And so those are some of the themes running through
1:17:55
Speaker 4: it that I think are very unique and something it's
1:18:00
Speaker 4: much needed in today's discourse.
1:18:05
Speaker 1: Thank you. That's great that it was a lot. Thank you.
1:18:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's always years in there, and it's always hard
1:18:16
Speaker 4: to kind of focus on one thing because yeah, there's
1:18:20
Speaker 4: so much information in it and everything connects to everything else.
1:18:24
Speaker 4: So yeah, but this is what this is what the
1:18:29
Speaker 4: book looks like. And you can get it as Amazon.
1:18:35
Speaker 1: That's a big book.
1:18:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you if you look for a votes kylistic
1:18:40
Speaker 4: v O C E S C A E L E
1:18:44
Speaker 4: S t I, it'll be on there and you Yeah,
1:18:50
Speaker 4: if you choose the Amazon that your country is in,
1:18:52
Speaker 4: you won't get ridiculous shipping costs. It's available in paperback
1:18:57
Speaker 4: everywhere and hardcover in certain places, but not all for
1:19:02
Speaker 4: some reason. But yeah, if you want to check it out,
1:19:06
Speaker 4: then that's that's the details.
1:19:09
Speaker 1: That's great. Thank you. Thanks, Thanks you go ahead.
1:19:14
Speaker 2: I do have a question, is this book your answer
1:19:16
Speaker 2: to your encounter with the angels?
1:19:21
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's it's what they told me when I Yeah,
1:19:30
Speaker 4: it's it's it's it's me recording the things that they
1:19:32
Speaker 4: communicated with me when when I contacted them, and these rituals,
1:19:37
Speaker 4: and the reason why there's such a theme of like
1:19:42
Speaker 4: what's happening in the world and things that are going
1:19:46
Speaker 4: wrong in the world, and there's going to be you know,
1:19:48
Speaker 4: things are going to change dramatically and you need to
1:19:51
Speaker 4: be ready. Like a big part of the reason for
1:19:54
Speaker 4: that is because one of the core workings that I
1:19:59
Speaker 4: did to get these communications was the Jebipho ritual, which
1:20:03
Speaker 4: is an Anochian magical ritual and it's all about restoring
1:20:11
Speaker 4: spiritual knowledge that was lost and doing so for the
1:20:16
Speaker 4: express purpose of preparing for the end. And that's what
1:20:22
Speaker 4: the angels said to Dan Kelly, and this was the
1:20:25
Speaker 4: ritual to get that specific type of knowledge. And I
1:20:30
Speaker 4: was actually the first person who has ever done that
1:20:34
Speaker 4: ritual because the forty ninth call was never given and
1:20:39
Speaker 4: I had to develop a way of receiving the forty
1:20:42
Speaker 4: ninth call before I could complete the ritual. But yeah,
1:20:47
Speaker 4: so that's yeah. So it's my communications with the angels.
1:20:52
Speaker 4: Some of it is the result of specific questions that
1:20:54
Speaker 4: I ask them. Some of the is just things that
1:20:56
Speaker 4: they tell me that I need to know, and it
1:21:00
Speaker 4: is colored by the nature of the workings that I did.
1:21:04
Speaker 4: And so, for example, the knowledge and conversation related communications
1:21:09
Speaker 4: are all about understanding the divine and what the experience
1:21:14
Speaker 4: of union with the Divine is like. So that's the
1:21:18
Speaker 4: sort of things that are recorded in the book.
1:21:22
Speaker 2: I would like you to expand because it could have
1:21:25
Speaker 2: so many meetings.
1:21:26
Speaker 5: When you said the.
1:21:27
Speaker 4: End, yeah, well I can understand because yeah, people might
1:21:36
Speaker 4: hear that and think of the fundamentalist Christian idea of
1:21:41
Speaker 4: the end, which is that Jesus comes down on a
1:21:43
Speaker 4: cloud and destroys the earth with fire and then everybody,
1:21:52
Speaker 4: most people go to hell, and then the righteous are
1:21:54
Speaker 4: resurrected and get to live with Jesus in heaven. And
1:21:58
Speaker 4: that's not what this is about. It's about the ending
1:22:02
Speaker 4: of an age. You know, there are certain periods in
1:22:07
Speaker 4: human history where the old way of doing things comes
1:22:11
Speaker 4: to a dramatic end, but then something new comes along,
1:22:16
Speaker 4: and that is the thing which renews the human species
1:22:24
Speaker 4: and gives us a new experience for a new time,
1:22:28
Speaker 4: and so I think the Dan Kelly probably understood it
1:22:34
Speaker 4: from a very literal Christian perspective. But if you look
1:22:39
Speaker 4: at the meaning of the word, the phrase end of
1:22:46
Speaker 4: the world in the original Greek where Jesus uses it
1:22:51
Speaker 4: on the Mount of Olives, it's actually talking about the
1:22:54
Speaker 4: end of the age. So I would argue that the
1:22:58
Speaker 4: correct understanding, whether d and Kelly were aware of it
1:23:02
Speaker 4: or not, is the ending of one age in the
1:23:06
Speaker 4: beginning of another. So yeah, I mean, some dramatic things
1:23:11
Speaker 4: can happen in those times, but it's not fire and
1:23:13
Speaker 4: brimstone and everybody dies because because the Christian fundamentalists in
1:23:22
Speaker 4: the United States tried to start World War three to
1:23:25
Speaker 4: bring about their idea of the end. It's not that. It's, yeah,
1:23:30
Speaker 4: the end of an age.
1:23:33
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for clearing that up.
1:23:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, of course, it's much It's much closer to
1:23:41
Speaker 4: describing what Eckhartole would or Dolores Cannon would talk about
1:23:46
Speaker 4: in terms of the new Earth arriving and what needs
1:23:52
Speaker 4: to end before that can come about.
1:23:56
Speaker 3: I'm intrigued by the symbol on your cover. This is
1:24:00
Speaker 3: it like an anc with a dual pronged base. Could
1:24:04
Speaker 3: you break that down?
1:24:07
Speaker 4: So, yeah, this is this is a symbol that I
1:24:11
Speaker 4: received in one of the communications from the Chebophile ritual,
1:24:15
Speaker 4: and it's actually the symbol of humanity. And so that
1:24:21
Speaker 4: is that is the thing that defines the Coming age?
1:24:24
Speaker 4: Is that it that that is it's it's it's about
1:24:28
Speaker 4: humanity and understanding that we are. We are in a
1:24:34
Speaker 4: certain sense and manifestation of divinity, and that is our
1:24:38
Speaker 4: true nature. And when we reclaim that, we can reach
1:24:42
Speaker 4: our full potential. And Jesus was meant to be like
1:24:46
Speaker 4: a prototype of that and was supposed to show the
1:24:50
Speaker 4: way back. But then you know, you know, Nicee in
1:24:55
Speaker 4: Christianity came along and suppressed all of the gnostic wisdom
1:24:58
Speaker 4: and all of that, and it turned into something that
1:25:01
Speaker 4: was to do with vicarious atonement instead, and you know,
1:25:05
Speaker 4: just following an external savior. But we're going to come
1:25:10
Speaker 4: to an understanding of what what the true meaning of
1:25:13
Speaker 4: that master coming was and and and live it ourselves
1:25:19
Speaker 4: and so and so, and our new understanding of the
1:25:23
Speaker 4: divine will be linked to the divine within, and we
1:25:28
Speaker 4: will honor the divine by doing good to one another.
1:25:31
Speaker 4: Because we're able to see the divine much more within
1:25:34
Speaker 4: each other, and we and we pay attention to the
1:25:38
Speaker 4: world that we live in rather than the hereafter, because
1:25:41
Speaker 4: we understand that the divine is here. So that's and
1:25:46
Speaker 4: and so that's that's kind of like the big central
1:25:49
Speaker 4: message of the book. And so that's why that symbol
1:25:54
Speaker 4: is on the front.
1:25:58
Speaker 1: Very cool, Thank you. That was a good question. I thought.
1:26:03
Speaker 1: I ask that you do have a you do have
1:26:09
Speaker 1: a don't you kind of have like a design, like
1:26:12
Speaker 1: a sigil or a logo for yourself? Is there anything
1:26:15
Speaker 1: involved in that?
1:26:17
Speaker 3: Oh?
1:26:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, lifting the lamp symbol. Yeah, that was designed as
1:26:21
Speaker 4: a sigil. Yeah, just because I didn't want any old
1:26:26
Speaker 4: symbol I wanted, you know, I wanted a symbol that
1:26:29
Speaker 4: was was created with a magical intent.
1:26:32
Speaker 3: Ah.
1:26:34
Speaker 4: But yeah, there's there's nothing, there's nothing deeper to it
1:26:37
Speaker 4: than that. For that symbol. It wasn't the result of
1:26:40
Speaker 4: like an angelic working or anything else. It's just a yeah,
1:26:45
Speaker 4: it was just basic sigual magic.
1:26:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, awesome, cool. No, it's nice, I like
1:26:51
Speaker 1: it was. Was there anything that represented anything to do
1:26:57
Speaker 1: with like an eclipse so to say? In that in that.
1:27:02
Speaker 4: In the schedule. No, not not specifically.
1:27:06
Speaker 1: No noticed on your website. You do you have an
1:27:08
Speaker 1: eclipse crescent on your website For some reason, it was
1:27:12
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I got confused.
1:27:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's just that's that's more for aesthetica.
1:27:21
Speaker 1: No, but there was like something else that I thought
1:27:23
Speaker 1: maybe it was like a copy of it. So that's why, Yes,
1:27:27
Speaker 1: from looking at your website, gotcha.
1:27:29
Speaker 4: But I mean there were there were some eclipses that
1:27:31
Speaker 4: that happened around the when I did my geogiphile ritual.
1:27:35
Speaker 4: I timed it at a point that was in the
1:27:38
Speaker 4: middle of a tetraat of lunar eclipses.
1:27:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. Nice.
1:27:45
Speaker 4: So yeah, so that's yeah. I do have some kind
1:27:49
Speaker 4: of eclipses have been part of my journey at various points,
1:27:55
Speaker 4: but not like.
1:27:56
Speaker 1: A big party, gotcha. Gotcha they did you ever? Do
1:28:01
Speaker 1: you think there was any benefits when you did when
1:28:04
Speaker 1: you did that one, like you said right there, like
1:28:05
Speaker 1: timing it to the eclipses.
1:28:11
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I think. Well I had originally planned, like
1:28:15
Speaker 4: I'd been studying this ritual, that the Jebiphi rituals since
1:28:19
Speaker 4: about two thousand and nine, and you know before Aaron
1:28:23
Speaker 4: Leach and his fantastic research on the topic. It was
1:28:29
Speaker 4: referred to as the Anochian Apocalypse working. So I, yeah,
1:28:35
Speaker 4: I'd been researching it for a few years by twenty fourteen,
1:28:41
Speaker 4: and I had planned to do it in twenty twenty originally,
1:28:46
Speaker 4: but then Aaron Leach's book Essential Inokian Grimoire came out
1:28:52
Speaker 4: and I helped put a lot of pieces into place
1:28:57
Speaker 4: that I'd been thinking about, which I hadn't expected to
1:29:03
Speaker 4: understand so soon. And I also became aware of this
1:29:07
Speaker 4: tetrad that was happening and how there was sort of
1:29:10
Speaker 4: expectations among people that this was like a sign of
1:29:14
Speaker 4: of the of the end times. So I thought that
1:29:18
Speaker 4: it was a magically powerful time to do the ritual
1:29:21
Speaker 4: for that reason. And yeah, so as a as a
1:29:26
Speaker 4: result of I guess being inspired by by Leech's work
1:29:31
Speaker 4: and the magical timing, I decided that that was that
1:29:35
Speaker 4: was the time to do it.
1:29:41
Speaker 3: Do you do you study astrology particularly.
1:29:47
Speaker 4: I'm familiar with astrology, I wonder, but I don't study seriously.
1:29:56
Speaker 3: I wonder maybe just for everyone, this might be off
1:29:59
Speaker 3: top topic, I hope not too much, but relative to
1:30:02
Speaker 3: your idea of this transition, into a more enlightened kind
1:30:07
Speaker 3: of age. If you will forgive me for paraphrasing off base,
1:30:13
Speaker 3: but I wonder if you've heard about this barbol basket.
1:30:18
Speaker 3: I ask because it has four different planets, all at
1:30:22
Speaker 3: four degrees and the moon at four degrees too. Coming
1:30:26
Speaker 3: up this summer. It reminds me of as you described,
1:30:29
Speaker 3: the touchout of eclipses.
1:30:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've not heard of that one, but yeah, there
1:30:41
Speaker 4: have been some interesting things happening astrologically in the last
1:30:46
Speaker 4: few months. You don't want everything.
1:30:49
Speaker 1: Else, Yeah, even areas at a wild, wild time. There's
1:30:54
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of alignments. Awesome. Uh did you guys
1:31:03
Speaker 1: have any other questions? Yeah? We could probably wrap it
1:31:06
Speaker 1: up here, right, Okay, Yeah I had. That was a blast, man,
1:31:12
Speaker 1: I really I really enjoyed that conversation. There's so many
1:31:16
Speaker 1: other things. I'll be totally honest with you all. They
1:31:17
Speaker 1: even got that. I did have some questions. I don't
1:31:19
Speaker 1: even think I really got to any of them, but
1:31:21
Speaker 1: I thought that was a great, great, great discussion and
1:31:24
Speaker 1: the very detailed answers, and I appreciate that for real.
1:31:29
Speaker 4: So yeah, thank you. Yeah, I've enjoyed our little chat here.
1:31:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's just so many things I know that like,
1:31:36
Speaker 1: even just from it was stuff I wanted to get
1:31:38
Speaker 1: into that I've just seen you even cover in your
1:31:40
Speaker 1: own channel that I find is interesting. But I just
1:31:42
Speaker 1: you know, I think we could be here all right
1:31:44
Speaker 1: at that point. But uh yeah, before I'll let you
1:31:48
Speaker 1: plug whatever you got. Well, Judith the Loon, please let
1:31:52
Speaker 1: everybody know where they can find your stuff.
1:31:56
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. Thank you for sharing and
1:32:00
Speaker 2: indulging this in this conversation, Freder everyone else you could
1:32:04
Speaker 2: find me on speaker, YouTube and x as the Loon.
1:32:11
Speaker 2: Ethan also is a pleasure, always a pleasure of being
1:32:14
Speaker 2: on with Ethan as well.
1:32:15
Speaker 5: And the chat you guys rocked it tonight.
1:32:19
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Jus, I really appreciate you making it. Ethan,
1:32:24
Speaker 1: my man, what is going on, sir? Yeah?
1:32:27
Speaker 3: Great, great to be here with you guys as always.
1:32:30
Speaker 3: Thank you so much Frider for the information and more
1:32:33
Speaker 3: importantly the inspiration. That was wonderful presentation and discussion so
1:32:38
Speaker 3: Ethan Indigo Smith on all the social media. I appreciate
1:32:42
Speaker 3: any communication that people want to reach out, So again,
1:32:46
Speaker 3: thank you all.
1:32:49
Speaker 1: Thank you. Ethan, appreciate you making it and Frida again,
1:32:53
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on. I really appreciate you talking
1:32:55
Speaker 1: about your experiences, especially with the Angel Magic. You know,
1:32:59
Speaker 1: I guess myself, I guess whichever way I did it
1:33:01
Speaker 1: in my own way, I thoroughly enjoyed it. So it's
1:33:05
Speaker 1: nice here in other people's takes on it and their
1:33:08
Speaker 1: experience with the nor Gia Magic, for sure, is something
1:33:10
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about. Yeah, I appreciate you bringing
1:33:14
Speaker 1: that to the show. And for the listeners, please let
1:33:16
Speaker 1: everybody know where they can find all your stuff, promote
1:33:18
Speaker 1: whatever your book, your podcast.
1:33:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, sure, and yeah, first of all, yeah, thanks
1:33:25
Speaker 4: again for having me on. And it's been a fantastic
1:33:29
Speaker 4: discussion and it's always good to talk to other occultists
1:33:31
Speaker 4: as well. Yeah. Yeah. And in terms of my own work,
1:33:40
Speaker 4: yeah again, the vatches Kylsty the Book of Heavenly Voices
1:33:43
Speaker 4: is available on Amazon. And I also am still of
1:33:48
Speaker 4: course doing my YouTube channel Lifting the Lamp, where I
1:33:53
Speaker 4: talk about a number of different occult topics, so you
1:33:56
Speaker 4: can find that on YouTube mainly. And yeah, so please
1:34:00
Speaker 4: go and subscribe to me over there, but please make
1:34:04
Speaker 4: sure you hit the notification bell because otherwise YouTube will
1:34:07
Speaker 4: not not even tell you of my future videos, and
1:34:12
Speaker 4: please do join my mailing list as well to give
1:34:16
Speaker 4: me a bit more autonomy over who gets to see
1:34:20
Speaker 4: my work without an algorithm deciding for me. So there
1:34:24
Speaker 4: will be a link in you know, my next or
1:34:29
Speaker 4: you know, my last YouTube video which we'll have have
1:34:33
Speaker 4: the mailing list there, so please join the mailing list
1:34:37
Speaker 4: over there as well.
1:34:40
Speaker 1: Very nice. Thank you. Yeah, definitely hit that notify button.
1:34:43
Speaker 1: I'll even say I have people who are like, oh,
1:34:45
Speaker 1: I had the notify on YouTube, didn't even tell me.
1:34:47
Speaker 1: YouTube sucks with them given sending out subscribers any information,
1:34:53
Speaker 1: So definitely they suggest definitely hit that notific notification button. Again.
1:34:58
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on again. That was
1:35:01
Speaker 1: a great discussion. People in the chat seem to really
1:35:03
Speaker 1: like it. Thank you. Fan r C. Definitely appreciate you,
1:35:07
Speaker 1: sir as always. And uh yeah, well hopefully maybe we'll
1:35:10
Speaker 1: get you on in the future and we'll talk about
1:35:12
Speaker 1: some more stuff.
1:35:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, be happy to do that.
1:35:16
Speaker 1: Definitely cool.
1:35:17
Speaker 4: I think you've probably got a lot more questions you
1:35:20
Speaker 4: want to ask.
1:35:20
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. I even
1:35:23
Speaker 1: so many more about the book really other things. But yeah,
1:35:26
Speaker 1: we'll make sure that happens in the future and U yeah,
1:35:29
Speaker 1: that's the end of another cult rejects And until the
1:35:31
Speaker 1: next one, everybody be.
1:35:32
Speaker 6: Will the leader, close your ears, look into the darkness,
1:35:42
Speaker 6: find the blazing.
1:35:44
Speaker 1: Story, focus on.
1:35:49
Speaker 6: They'll be called the Eclipse. Don't feel.
1:35:56
Speaker 1: Sure, be dood o, shut time Aga,